Protein Master Class: Best and Healthiest Sources | Dr. Matthew Nagra

protein day here on the exam room podcast brought to you by the Physicians committee hi I am the weight loss Champion Chuck Carroll we're going to be talking about two different kinds of protein protein that comes from animal sources you know meat Dairy things like that and then we're going to be talking about plant protein a lot of people say hey if you're getting your protein from Plants either you're not getting protein at all or you're just not getting Protein that's high quality enough well my guest today is going to break it all down for us he is a friend of the show a phenomenal human being and he's going to be speaking at the planted Expo not just in Toronto here at the end of April but also in Vancouver the following month with that we welcome Dr Matthew nagar back to the exam room my friend thanks for doing a little protein 101 for us today yeah thanks for having me on and uh definitely a topic I love talking about so no problem at all first question is one that I hope will clear up a lot of this confusion out there and that is does the body actually absorb absorb these traditional I'll call them that protein sources meat cheese things like that differently than they do from plant protein that you would get from nut seeds and basically every other food yeah so I mean you hit on one of the big concerns there's often raised especially in the fitness Community around Plant proteins and that is this idea of bioavailability sort of the proportions of the protein that we actually absorb um and with the animal protein sources you're typically absorbing somewhere in the mid 80s to mid 90s as far as a percentage with plant protein it is maybe a little bit more variable and there are studies suggesting that that absorption could actually be significantly lower but there are some problems with those studies for one the scoring systems that are typically used called the PD cats and the Diaz for for short for anybody who's interested what they do is they feed these protein sources to animals typically um and they measure how much protein comes out the other end or how much is absorbed by the end of the small intestine and you'll find that yeah it's a bit less typically with the plant protein sources but they often feed raw foods especially when they're doing it with pigs um so they'll feed raw legumes raw grains Etc and they're less digestible In The Raw State and we don't eat them in their raw State typically as far as the grains and legumes anyway the other big issue is plant proteins they contain varying amounts of the amino acids these are the building blocks of proteins with animal Foods you have a pretty consistent say balance of amino acids with plant Foods while all plants contain all of the amino acids or the essential amino acids they can have more or less of certain types and what those studies do is they pick out the least prevalent amino acid and they score the protein based on that so not only are they looking at the digestibility differences oftentimes with raw foods which is unfavorable towards the plant protein sources but they'll actually pick out the amino acid that is least prevalent and score the food based on that now we have some human data looking at digestibility of a variety of protein sources wheat protein sources soy protein sources and looking at the total protein digestibility rather than honing in on those you know individual amino acids and you see that the difference between the plant protein sources and the animal protein sources is maybe a few percent it's nothing to really get concerned about if you were really concerned about it you just eat slightly more protein and that's it but even then it's not very convincing that it's a problem at all I know that with certain nutrients like iron if I believe you you eat vitamin C with that it helps the body absorb it a little bit better could that also be the case when it comes to plant protein are there some other nutrients that you might want to mix in there to really optimize that absorption um there there may be but I would say they aren't going to be major contributors the big one is going to be yes proper preparation so cooking actually removing some of the fiber interestingly can increase protein absorption too that's why things like tofu where some of the fiber is actually removed and is a little bit more concentrated protein Source can be uh beneficial as well but I wouldn't say you need to hyper focus on adding certain things to it vice versa is there anything that could block other than eating it in its raw form block the protein absorption um again the high fiber content legumes possibly a little bit less but it's still it's not going to be um it's not going to be Earth shattering as far as the numbers we're talking about we actually have some data on cooked legumes like I said they often feed the raw form but even with cooked legumes you're still looking at an absorption in the high 70s to even low 90s as far as a percentage based on again some of the limited data that we have so yeah a bit less perhaps but still not a huge huge difference you know I was talking to I see the plant strong t-shirt um I was talking to rip esselstyn not that long ago and he really made it a point during our conversation to just basically say well look you know if you're getting enough calories it's virtually impossible not to get an adequate amount of protein um plant protein are not is that something that you also subscribe to like are we just too protein obsessed here and just make sure that you're eating enough and you're good to go so yes and no I think there's there's sort of two sides to that there's the side where there is definitely maybe too much of an obsession with protein and then there's the side where it's important to sort of discounted altogether and um I would say no it is important and while we have the RDA the um recommended dietary allowance of 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight so that would be taking your weight in kilograms and just multiplying it by 0.8 that's sort of the recommended amount the amount that you need to you know survive and live and whatnot but there is research especially for as we age suggesting that higher intakes are actually beneficial to help maintain Mobility help maintain bone health prevent sarcopenia which is a muscle loss as we age and that Target is typically set around 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight which is not hard to get but if you're really not focusing on any protein Rich plant Foods if you're just eating your grains and fruits and veggies and so on um yeah you'll probably end up falling short on that Target so I do like to emphasize protein a little bit more um just to make sure that you're hitting those targets but it's easy enough to do with things like tofu seitan uh tempeh Etc would you say that those are really kind of the best plant-based protein sources out there what are some when you're working with a patient that you would recommend yeah I love um I mean there's so many different types of soy of course there's the tofu there's the tempeh there's the um soy curls I don't know if you have that over there but I just bought a huge case of them I love those um textured vegetable protein as well are textured soy protein and then there's um seitan being a similar sort of idea and then one that is um I feel like is becoming more common now to see is actually legume based pastas so using like a lentil pass that chickpea pasta I absolutely love using those and recommending those to people because it's such a sort of sneaky way to get a whole bunch of protein in and they're very fiber rich they're loaded with iron and other minerals as well so definitely ways to fit those in and I'd say those are some of my favorites where do you weigh in on the idea of protein powders I guess especially amongst the athletes who are looking for that little bit of an extra boost is that something that you know athletes should be looking at and at what point should somebody you were we're just talking about as we get a little bit older may need some more protein in their diet should they then be looking at maybe supplementing a little bit with that yeah I actually I'm definitely a fan of using protein powders to help hit whatever Target you're aiming for so if it is just more for the General Health longevity aspect around the 1.2 gram per kilogram Mark if you're having trouble hitting that then yeah protein powder is a really easy convenient way to fit that in for an athlete who might be aiming higher so for say strength or hypertrophy for muscle gaining you're looking at about 1.6 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight that's double the RDA and while possible with Just Foods is certainly a little bit more difficult it would take a little bit more planning a protein powder can fit in there really well and you know be an easy way to bump up that intake let's say you typically make a smoothie soy milk you got hemp seeds your fruits veggies Etc maybe you're hitting about 15 grams well you can bump it up to 35 40 grams by adding a bit of protein powder so it's definitely really convenient and I do like using it to help hit those targets when they just can't be really met otherwise is there a concern at some point with having too much protein in the diet at some point it goes from be being this nutrient that we need and the body really loves to build those healthy muscles to being whoa you got too much of it now Jack and you're in trouble so there are some concerns that are often raised around that and there's kind of two main um uh things that are looked at for for what it's the type of protein so um even with high intakes of plant protein we don't see a higher risk of say cardiovascular outcomes kidney disease Etc um we actually see if anything it seems to be beneficial now cases where we might want to moderate protein intake is perhaps in chronic kidney disease and that's obviously something that one would work with a nephrologist on as far as how much they're able to consume and I'd say there's a little bit of debate around even that aspect but when it comes to plant protein specifically I wouldn't say there's really a harm to say going too high I mean you're never really going to get uh crazy high unless you're you're just having a sort of protein powdered TVP sort of diet um you know I I can't imagine you getting even above like you know 2.5 grams per kilogram if you're having a pretty well-rounded um plant-based diet yeah I really wouldn't have concerns higher plant protein intake is typically associated with Better Health outcomes than low protein intakes and let's talk about that low protein intake how would somebody know what are some of the symptoms that they might experience if they are coming up short in that area so your let's say you're sitting in that typical 0.8 to 1 gram Mark which is adequate but maybe not optimal you're not going to notice much um as far as uh symptoms maybe you have a little bit more difficulty putting on uh muscle mass compared to your peers perhaps but I mean there's so many other variables there it's really hard to to pinpoint that that's more something that would come from tracking your intake and then um and then looking at how much you're actually consuming now if you're really falling short let's say you're at 0.6 or something I mean you can notice muscle wasting if you're really really short as we see in a lot of impoverished Nations you can have uh sort of a bloating that can occur um or uh water retention and that's a sign of quasiar course so it's a it's a actual protein deficiency but uh yeah otherwise you're not going to have these sorts of symptoms that's why it's really important to just get ahead of it and really track your intake and so you can help promote that longevity the mobility Etc and let's say somebody has been coming up short maybe they're they just switched over to the plant-based diet and you know they're still in that kind of feeling out period or whatever diet like even just coming up short for whatever reason um if they then increase the amount of protein that they're taking in can that then kind of offset the damage that may have done like will that muscle wasting suddenly go away you can start building healthy muscles again so yes and no um one aspect there that is really important is the resistance training um there's actually a really nice review that came out last year uh to gawa was the author on that and they looked at uh protein intake and muscle mass and actually sorry strength I believe in that one and they looked at the impact of protein in a context of no resistance training as well as in the context of resistance training and in the context of no resistance training just upping protein intake had very little effect on actual uh muscle and strength gains but in the context of resistance training that's where you see the benefits up to about 1.5 or so grams of protein per kilogram of body weight and so yes you can you help build back some of that muscle and certainly prevent worsening of that muscle loss by adding in the protein but a huge component there is going to be actually stressing your muscles and that's I think one of the big takeaways here is there's this debate as we just kind of mentioned around protein as a whole but within that debate I mean I think we can all agree that the resistance training or at least we should be able to agree that the resistance training is the most important factor and let's let's look at this then a step further so we know that when it comes to uh certain chronic conditions you can reverse them uh diet and exercise a huge component there but it is reversible so let's say somebody does then begin getting that adequate amount of protein does add that resistance training even if I mean they just turned into you know a stick figure and they really had a lot of muscle wasting can you fire those things back up with the right amount of resistance training with the right amount of protein and get your health back on track yeah yeah that's going to be the the key to doing it is just eating enough protein also eating enough calories right if we're talking about a case where someone has lost a lot of weight perhaps then yeah the calories are going to be a huge component as well and then you add the resistance training in and you can get some of that muscle back yeah I love that I love the rebound thing right because I feel like in this space there are a lot of times when people just feel hopeless and the thing that I love when I have guests Like You on the show is being able to help paint that picture for them that I mean nine times out of ten if not more hope is never completely lost you know what I mean yeah and um and you know it's good that we're talking about this topic too because I'm just sort of a little bit of a tangent here but just thought of it um one of the things I find especially in elderly populations is that there is actually a big lack of resistance training so it's good to have that reminder that um yeah I mean you know the walking any sort of say cardiovascular or aerobic type activities that you're doing are great um but combining that with some resistance training even a couple times a week or so it can make you know huge dividends for your health how quickly and I mean I hate to put you on the spot here but I mean this is a question that also comes up it's like yeah I'll make these changes but how quickly might I begin to see or experience these results so say somebody goes from being a sedentary Couch Potato completely not taking care of themselves nutritionally to really talking uh implementing the things you and I are talking about now how quickly might they begin to see some gains in that area it's hard to give an exact number but what I can say is a lot of the trials that we have on protein intake are you know anywhere or say protein resistance training are anywhere from maybe eight weeks to 12 weeks I think there are longer ones there are some shorter ones but usually in that window we do see significant improvements um and you know the amount of improvement is obviously going to depend on the amount and frequency and volume of resistance training so um so hard to give an exact number but I would expect to see results pretty quickly and usually right in the beginning even in that first few weeks or month you have a lot of um you'll build a lot of strength just based on nerve functioning so it's it's the way that your nerves fire and it's sort of that you know muscle memory kind of idea not that it's the most accurate term here but um but it's not actually necessarily due to building muscle at that point it's more just your your nerves firing at a you know better rate and um and getting used to the movements and so you tend to progress pretty quickly in those Early Times I want to ask you about a muscle building study that you talked about on Instagram pretty recently but before we do that I also want to ask you about uh the notion of not getting enough complete proteins while eating a plant-based diet this too is something that has come up time and again and for whatever reason um I guess the messaging there just isn't quite connecting uh with a lot of people so when it comes to making sure that you're getting a complete protein makeup how does one do that eating a plant-based diet um yeah so for starter is the idea of a or let's go with the scientific definition of a complete or incomplete protein an incomplete protein would be one that is lacking at least one of the essential amino acids meaning it doesn't have it now all plants every single plant contains all of the essential amino acids there is not a plant that does not contain all of them in fact the only protein I'm aware of that is lacking one of the essential amino acids is collagen and that's you know it's an animal protein so it's kind of ironic um so that's not a problem now where there can be concerns is that as I mentioned earlier plants contain varying amounts of the different amino acids so they might be really high in certain amino acids lower in others but they complement each other so if in your diet you're having brains you're having legumes you're having that succeeds Etc it all adds up and essentially balance out and you'll hit enough of the uh the amino acids that you need I don't think you need to focus too much on that as long as you have a bit of variety in your diet the other thing is just by eating more protein you can help meet the the thresholds or requirements for the individual amino acids as well so by aiming for those higher targets that also adds in a bit a bit of a safety net and helps get you there it's really this idea of incomplete proteins and and that is just it's so outdated at this point but it is something that I still see all the time online and it's really a Telltale sign that maybe someone hasn't done their reading on the topic yeah the variety in the diet thing is interesting I think that a lot of times people think well one of the things that we stress anyway is like eat the rainbow eat a wide variety of colors that means that you're getting basically everything that you need every nutrient because every you know colors anyway I think it can kind of be overwhelming when you're introducing that concept to somebody for the first time to think that well every single time they sit down to eat their plate has to look like you know a bag of Skittles or a 64 box of Crayola crowns you know it's just like how does one really make sure that they are getting a wide variety of nutrients in their diet without getting absolutely neurotic about it either yeah so that's actually a great great point you just brought up it's not about combining at each meal you don't have to worry about that what I mean by variety is just in your whole day you know if you have oatmeal for breakfast just you know primarily grain maybe you throw in some nuts or whatever uh and then you have I don't know a tofu dish or something for lunch and then you have lentils for dinner or whatever all that stuff is going to combine uh you don't have to focus on on making each meal the rainbow so to speak um at the same time there are some foods that are really well balanced in their amino acid profiles like soy actually I just mentioned tofu is one that's pretty well balanced um so can be more comparable to say an animal protein Source too but again if you're getting enough protein as a whole um and specifically aiming for those higher targets I mentioned earlier you really don't have to worry about it too much I would focus more on the amount of protein versus versus you know combining and all of that because that should just happen naturally as long as you're not eating a very monotonous diet like one or two things in your whole day all right so back to the plant strong t-shirt that you're wearing right now it popped into my mind I wanted to ask you about this study that you had posted about on Instagram that looked at muscle growth uh among people eating a vegan diet versus those that are eating the omnivorous diet you had a lot of fun talking about this one there was a lot of data packed into this study can you break it down for us yeah and actually um before even even getting into that one there was one study that was published about a year and a half prior two years prior where they took vegans omnivores they had them increase their protein intake to that 1.6 gram per kilogram Mark which is ideal for strength and hypertrophy as I mentioned earlier and they have them trained twice a week for uh 12 weeks and ultimately there were no significant differences in muscle and strength outcomes so that was you know the first really good study comparing a strictly plant-based diet to an omnivorous diet uh suggesting that yeah you can get similar sort of muscle and strength gains now this newer study kind of reinforces that idea so what they did was they took participants this was I believe it was conducted in the UK I guess that's that point isn't as important but um they split them into two groups one of the groups was put on a plant-based diet now I will note it wasn't a hundred percent they were kind of allowed to have one cheat meal or you know one day where they were able to eat some other stuff just to help with compliance as a whole but by and large it was a plant-based diet and then the other group was on an omnivorous diet now the plant group they actually replaced the meat in the diet with mycoprotein uh based foods so Michael protein it's it's actually a microbe derived or a fungus Drive Protein that's used in a lot of plant-based meat Alternatives in the UK um I haven't seen it really over here but definitely know it's a big thing over there and so they really upped their protein intake with Michael protein and they also took a microprotein supplement whereas the uh meat eating group I believe took a whey protein or a milk sorry it was a milk protein based supplement now they had them also supplement creatine which has been shown to improve muscle and strength gains as well so they wanted to really maximize the performance here and both groups took that so it's not a difference between the the plant-based diet and the omnivorous diet they had them resistance trained five times a week which is quite a bit and they did that for uh two to three months I actually can't recall the exact uh timeline there I think it was three months and at the end of the day there weren't any significant differences and again muscle or strength outcomes uh if anything there was one uh lift where the vegans actually did or the like I said they aren't strict vegans uh the plant-based eaters were actually performing a little bit better even but there was one person who just went through the roof with their performance so they were kind of pulling the uh pulling the results up but regardless there wasn't a detriment that's the important thing there was there was no significant detriment no sign really of a detriment to the plant-based diet both supporting similar gains um using a high quality plant protein or technically not plant protein animal free protein Source in the micro protein and it's just another piece of evidence on top of that previous one suggesting that yeah plant-based diets can support these muscle and strength gains and we can focus on the bioavailability and we can focus on the amino acid profiles and all that all we want but if at the end of the day you get the same net result then who cares that's all a waste of effort and energy to start invading all those little things when the whole picture shows that you're getting the same sort of result yeah and a few things I want to unpack here uh number one you mentioned fungus protein and that one is actually kind of new to me the idea of a fungus specific protein like this is that's a big deal over in the UK it's been there for a long time actually funny enough I've been working uh you know I'll give a little little heads up and uh maybe I'll be publishing this at some point but I've been working on a review paper um for uh plant-based meat Alternatives and cardiovascular risk factors and um you know throughout that time I was looking at some of the research we have on plant-based meat Alternatives and there's some on this microprotein going back to the late 80s it's been around for a while and so it's yeah it's super surprising and there's some really good trials on it uh but not so much in the strength space until maybe the last few years or so but yeah it's a it's a big thing over there it's um the the product is called corn q-u-o-r-n um they're the kind of main company that uses it over there and they have both vegetarian products which I think do have some dairy in there and then they have the strictly plant-based vegan products as well yeah that's available here in the states as well um yeah it's uh typically in the frozen section so they'll have things like nuggets and I think maybe uh I mean maybe even a corn dog I don't know I never really realized what kind of a plant protein that was I never picked up the package to look at it that's interesting like I was I was wondering like well then how much protein is in the average portobello mushroom you know you start talking about fungus that's where my mind goes yeah it's not it's not quite the same thing but yeah um it's it's a very concentrated very protein Rich high quality protein Source interesting interesting um and then specific to the resistance training that the study participants were doing did they uh the researchers outlined what the workouts actually looked like or was it just kind of catches catch can and just do this amount no that that's one of the good things about it is it was a structured plan I can't recall the exact details of that plan off my head but it was a structured plan and they were working on progressively adding weight over time you know week by week um and with five days a week that's high volume that's a pretty solid volume for trying to maximize muscle gains as well so um overall I really like the structure of the the study and what kind of resistance training do you do are you a push-up guy are you a free weight guy what do you do um I do mostly free weights you know um squats bench press deadlifts Etc um and then I obviously I'm a soccer player as well so uh I do a lot of the cardio in that way and what would you recommend to somebody who has not been doing much in terms of resistance training uh for a very long time what's the best way that you would tell them to get started I mean if you're looking to get into say compound lifts some of the lifts I just mentioned I would definitely say working with the trainer it's a good idea at least in the beginning to get your form down and to kind of understand the movements but also if you if you really haven't done anything you just want to get started with stressing your muscles a bit there are a lot of I know Fitness YouTube channels and whatnot where they do even body weight or very lightweight stuff just to kind of get started you know wherever you're at just start there and then you can build up but definitely if you're getting into those compound lifts and you don't have any experience with them I would definitely say working with somebody who has more experienced is a good idea even if somebody say you know up there in their years a little bit maybe 70s 80s really now hyper focusing on their health trying to um be as healthy as they can into their golden years I mean you would still recommend you know linking up with a professional and trying to do it right yeah I actually think that's a really good idea and yeah you might not be getting into you know squatting 300 pounds at that point but uh but but even even just to get familiar with the Motions getting the correct sort of form down um it's I think a good idea and there are a lot of um I know the gym I used to go to over here uh there were a lot of classes where um they would have them even for specific say age groups your specific um uh levels you know beginner intermediate Etc uh and they would work with you and and obviously there's a bit of a community there with all the different uh different participants but um I think it is a good idea just generally to get that um get that sort of structure or instruction over it right and no right or wrong answer here also in the study uh you said that there was a little bit of a freedom there the guys could or the study participants had a cheat day or a cheat meal um as it were as a physician what is your take on cheat meals like how hard is it I mean I just feel like it's so personally just speaking for me here doc it is so counter to what it is that you're trying to do with your health goals like why in the world would you say say I'm going to quit smoking for 10 days but on the 11th day I'm gonna have a cigarette and I'm gonna be A-Okay I apply that same philosophy when it comes to cheat meals but I'm just curious to get your professional opinion there's no right or wrong answer here it's just always a conversation I like to have yeah in my practice I don't really use the term cheat meal or or talk about it that way you know I find out what what are the patients goals and how can we achieve that and and I always make it really clear that that it's on a spectrum so you know maybe the further you move this direction up to a point is going to be beneficial and where you want to sit on that is is kind of up to the individual um this idea of of you know cheat meals as it were in the study like I said was really to help with compliance because they weren't vegans at the beginning um and so just so it's not maybe as as big of a change which is understandable at least from a study design standpoint um but generally speaking I I just don't look at cheat meals as a as cheating uh so to speak I I just look at it as like we're gonna kind of set a target for what you're aiming for and wherever you fall on that uh spectrum is is great and we can always work on moving further um you know afterwards and I always you know follow up with patients every you know three weeks or five weeks or whatever to see how their progress is going and we can go from there but yeah I think there's gonna be a lot of different opinions on that topic uh for sure yeah and and I I come at it with a completely different approach than a lot of people right it's it's just my route they brought me here that's why I look at things the way that I do my wife is quick to point out though she's like well it's you know indulge if you want every once in a while I was just on the Rock's Instagram and he posts about his cheat meals and then if you go and you look at this holy God yeah yeah this guy's eating like a king's Feast like he has to pan in panoramic mode on his phone just to get all of the food that's on this long table in there like it is like how in the world is this even humanly freaking possible man yeah yeah I know I've seen that um and like for myself I think this is a big part of it too it's very individual for myself when I first made the switch to a plant-based diet um or at least when I first went strictly plant-based the big reason was I knew personally if I were to allow that wiggle room for myself then it turns into a bit more wiggle room and then you know it's a bit of a slippery slope perhaps for other people they might be able to manage that a lot better um if they have again this goal and and they're able to once in a while sneak things in without necessarily um falling off so to speak if that's the right term here then hey that that's okay for them for myself it wasn't necessarily in the beginning and of course now I adhere to a strictly plant-based diet for uh ethical reasons as well which makes it way easier um but yeah I think it's totally individual isn't that interesting how you know doing something for somebody or something else makes it easier than it is to do it for yourself isn't that isn't that weird right like I I it's it's heartwarming in a way but it's also like wow you know like maybe we should be putting more of a priority on Numero Uno from time to time but whatever it takes to get you where it is you need to be right absolutely yeah so here's the deal uh we're going to be talking all kinds of protein at the planted Expo in Toronto April 29th and 30th I'm going to be speaking there uh not about protein uh that's going to be your domain I assume that you're going to go into a lot more detail those uh when you're up there at the where are we having this we're at the uh enter Care Center in Toronto that's a phenomenal Place holy cow never been so we'll see yeah yeah so you're gonna get super in depth um yeah I'll get pretty in depth I mean I want to make it digestible for everyone of course but uh pun uh but anyways uh I I definitely don't want to um miss out on any of the important details basically my goal with the talk is to provide people with the information they need to answer that question that they're going to get about their protein I want them to be able to drive that point home so hard that the personality will never ask them again hey man nerd out man nerd out and Spread spread that nutrition knowledge and then uh Vancouver at the end of May Vancouver May 27th and 28th are also going to be at the planted Expo there you're a busy guy my friend you are a very busy guy yeah keep him busy and actually in Vancouver I'd be doing a different talk because I gave this one the protein one the last time I spoke there so uh this time I'm going to be diving into soy all the you know concerns and everything about soy so you know that's always a hot button issue too man that's always a hot button one yeah I know um I actually what brought that about was last year or a year and a half ago when I gave the protein talk uh one of the big questions at the end when I had like one minute left of q a was about soy and of course there's so much to talk about so uh planning to address all of it this time outstanding very much looking forward to it get your tickets right now plantedlife.com is the website to go to we've got a link for you right now in the show description and also give Dr nagra a follow on Instagram one of my favorite follows at Dr Matthew nagara dr.mathunagara is the place to go dude you have so much great information up there and you presented in such a a fun and straightforward manner you you really are just doing tremendous work so it's been an honor to share some time with you today thanks and same to you and look forward to catching up in Toronto there in about a month amen your health IQ was a couple of points higher than it was a few minutes ago go 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Channel: Physicians Committee

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Length: 34min 30sec (2070 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 27 2023