Pro-Palestinian student protesters defend their position as tensions rise | Talking Points

protests are exploding across the country on college campuses including the University of Minnesota in support of Palestinians in Gaza students are demanding a ceasefire and that universities die best of any investment or ties to Israel the protests show no sign of ending and are in fact growing now this is talking points on CBS News Minnesota good evening and welcome to talking points I'm Esme Murphy there is tension anger and fear on college campus across the country including at the University of Minnesota where demonstrators have also set up encampments and held rallies tonight in talking points you will hear from students who are directly involved in the leadership on both the Palestinian and Israeli sides you will hear from a constitutional law professor on exactly what rights students and universities have and we'll also hear from two other students participating in the protest including one that was arrested what's their motivation and how do they respond to the criticism that the protests are anti-semitic and minimize what happened in Israel on October 7th let's start with a 21-year-old Palestinian American from Augsburg University well joining us right now is s waswas she is a student at Augsburg College she is also the president of the Minnesota chapter of American Muslims for Palestine thank you so much for talking with us thank you for having me all right um obviously you're not at the U but you have certain certainly been lending your support to the protest at the U ofm um what what's what's this been like and what do you see as the core issue in these protests well first of all what it's been like it's been invigorating and inspiring to no end for Palestinian students like me who have felt Perpetual heartbreak and heartache for the past six months seeing that we've been bannering we've been picketing we've been tabling to no end and institutions have refused to budge so seeing something like this to this tenacity and this level of mobilization unlike anything we have seen since the 1970s with the Vietnam student protest this has brought me a level of Hope and joy that I didn't think I could feel in so long um now what do I think thear the issue here at hand is I think the issue at hand is that institutions like the University of Minnesota have been refusing to listen to their student body have been refusing to listen to every non-disruptive protest means that that has been used in the past six years um and I think at this point the students have resorted to the encampments because if there are no material Stakes there are no there's no material gain there's no material change and so the students are using this because they've determined that business as usual cannot continue unless president Jeff Edinger realizes that um that the cost is human life that the time to act is now what is the situation with your family your family is not actually in Gaza you told me they're in the West Bank where where the situation is better there's not an of war going on but you're they're still experiencing hardships yeah so my family I don't have any family inside of GDA right now uh they're all in the West Bank the hardship that they are experiencing is that which has preceded October 7th by 75 years and is continuing for the 76th Year and that is the apartheid regime which subjects the Palestinian people to treatment like second class citizens within their own homes so right now I can't get any access to my family and actually get them to talk about what's happen happening because they know that they're being surveilled they know that um soldiers could punish them could imprison them for something as simple as like a WhatsApp message telling me what's happening any innocuous expression any just mere communication of what is happening in the West Bank could be grounds for them to go to jail I mean I have a cousin actually that was thrown in jail because he attended a peaceful protest right here at Bryant Square Park in Minneapolis that's all he did he just attended the protest he didn't even organize it and when he went back to Palestine he was taken to jail which he is now staying there for 6 months this is the kind of daily brutality that the Palestinian people have experience long before uh October 7th for over 76 years let me ask you about this uh and I got a feeling I know where you're going to be coming from because you may have already answered it there are critics who say that these protesters are glossing over what happened on October 7th is that true what what do you mean by that like why well the protesters are not acknowledging um that 1100 people were killed in the attack on Israelis on October 7th is acknowledging that 1100 people were killed mutually exclusive to protesting and understanding the contextualization and understanding that occupation proceeds at all I mean that's like asking hold on that's like asking if uh the civil rights movement or if ant if abolition protests like that's like asking if they're glossing over the people killed in Nat Turner slave revolt like you can acknowledge that people were killed in a Revolt you can acknowledge that people were killed in a rebellion you can acknowledge that atrocities were committed while still understanding that the context is slavery the context is the thing that Nat Turner was rebelling against and that the current crimes being committed are not justified by whatever happened on October 7th what we are we are way past the point of being able to say that Israel is defending themselves and they have never been able to make the argument that they are defending themselves because they are inherently in an offensive posture by being an occupier occupiers have no right to self-defense because by occupying territory they have seated that right they have postured themselves as the offensive so I I just don't really understand where this argument is coming from that um that you know these protests are glossing over the people that were killed on October 7th just as much as I would understand the argument that civil rights protests are glossing over white people that were killed in Nat Turner's Rebellion I think we have to look at the power imbalance here we have to look at the fact that nothing that happened on October 7th is justification for the deliberate starvation of the people of Gaza Israel officials have very openly said that they are targeting civilians Gora Ian who is the uh defense ad excuse me defense adviser to uh uh the Minister of Defense y of Galant said very openly and this is just an explicit quote that she made that this is not about Hamas this is about all the civilian officials Netanyahu has echoed similar statements smotrich has echoed similar statements you know we can list senior official after a senior official that has said very openly and clearly that they are targeting civilians we are past the point of being able to say that this is about October 7 so many investigations have come forward with for for example the 972 magazine investigation which is published which found that Israeli intelligence officials had designated civilian entities as quote power Targets this is their language by Israeli intelligence and striking these entities knowing that there were no militants there because they wanted to strike fear in Palestinian Civil Society we cannot keep bringing up October 7th here in this context when civilians are being deliberately starved maimed deprived of food uh you know brutalized to no end I mean there is just absolutely no justification for this uh s waswas uh thank you so much uh we really appreciate your input thank you up next to U ofm Senor who is a leading voice of jewi students on campus and the perspective of a constitutional law professor on the rights of protesters and the rights of universities joining us right now is Ethan fine he is a senior graduating with a degree in journalism this year and he is active in a number of Jewish organizations on campus thank you so much Ethan definitely thank you so much for having me all right I I want to ask first of all because I I'm sure the viewers will be able to see that you're wearing a blue tag with the number 207 on it and you also have a dog tag with the Star of David explain what those two things mean definitely so both of them um draw um sort of attention and significance to the number of days that uh the hostages um have been held captive in Gaza since October 7th so 207 um is today's number it's been 207 days since October 7th since these hostages were innocently taken um and held hostage in Gaza and then the dog tag actually is a star of David a little bit of Hebrew on it and then it says in English as well bring them home now um and and that's the big message here is that that I think the Jewish community and myself especially have been trying to spread is we want our hostages home we want them home now we want them to let our people go you know I since you brought that up I mean there are not only protests here at home on college campuses all over the country there are some pretty big protests in Israel as well definitely definitely there's been a lot of the families um of those held hostage in Gaza have been trying to draw a lot of attention and put a lot of pressure on the Israeli government as well as the American government um to really turn the focus back to these hostages and say these were innocent civilians who were captured out of their homes out of a music festival um with you know no regard to human life and and we want them home are there any have you or any of your friends who are Jewish been harassed or been the target of anti-Semitic actions on campus for sure I think anti-Semitism on campus has always existed um there's always been anti-semitic rhetoric it was something actually as a Jewish student coming up to Minnesota for school was something I was warned pretty heavily about that Minnesota has had a history with um some anti-Semitism before I'd say I've been lucky enough um throughout my time in college to dodge anything too personal but I would say a lot of the organizations I've been with have been um attacked harassed I know Hillel very early on um the Jewish organization I'm probably most involved with had a display outside of the building um that had photographs of the hostages who had been taken and that was trampled on and kicked over um so that was that was definitely tough to see and definitely something that affected me do you consider the protests themselves are they anti-semitic or are they anti- uh the policy of President Benjamin Netanyahu and can you draw a distinction between those two questions is it possible to definitely so I think you bring up a great point is this something is what we're seeing um we're being told it's anti- Zionist we're being told it's anti- Netanyahu we're being told but we're feeling like it's anti-semitic and I think it's very important um to to educate people and also distinct or yeah draw a distinct difference of what all of this means so anti- Zionism is essentially saying that the Jewish people do not have the right to self-determination now the issue that I think many Jewish people or zionists take with this is that most of the people who call themselves anti-zionists who are against the self-determination of the Jewish people the Jewish people having a country and a Homeland would are and are fighting very clearly to preserve the self-determination of other groups of people so for the Jews and for the zionists when you see that someone is targeting the self-determination of just the Jewish people that inherently feels anti-semitic and that's where we draw that line now most of the Jews I know most of the zionists I know are very critical of of Benjamin Netanyahu and his policies and his government he's most certainly a leader with controversy and are they critical of of his policies in this war I'd say I would say yes that that most people are critical of his policies in this war but I would say it did not start in this war nanahu has been in power for a very long time and most of the people I know have been critical of him for years and so I think the issue is that a lot of people have a hard time seeing that Jewish people and Zionist people can be critical of the Israeli government people say how can you be critical of the Israeli government you love Israel I love Israel but I know that the government is not perfect I'm American but I know that the government is not perfect and I think being a supporter of a Nation you need to be critical of the government you need to say if you're a responsible citizen you need to point out the flaws and try to improve constantly and so I would say many Jews and many zionists are very critical of of Netanyahu at this time and for good reason you you know the these protests are not don't seem to be going away if anything they're growing and they're growing in intensity um is there any resolution to this um and are you concerned about that I am hopeful that it comes out in that that the war ends in a peaceful manner that Palestinians and Israelis alike can live in peace however I don't I do not think that this is going away I think that as as long as time has existed as long as the Jewish people have existed there has always been sort of an effort to wipe them off the face of the Earth and it takes different different forms in different Generations than this is a form we're seeing now and I think the underlying motives behind that will always be there the shape it takes will change so I think in five years from now we probably will not have these encampments in this large of protest but something will still be there that is the same underlying motive as what we are seeing today all right well listen Ethan thank you very much we appreciate your insights well joining us right now Professor David Schulz of Hamlin University uh you have helped us out so many times I'm turning to you again for some insight into this thank you for coming on my pleasure thank you es in terms of these protests what is legal what is not legal especially at a public university well first off keep in mind that a public university has to follow the First Amendment which means it has to afford the same type of free speech rights that any other governmental entity would have to provide and the The General answer is is that speech is protected until such time as the person speaking Advocates what's called imminent lawlessness and that lawlessness is imminent and by that if somebody were to say for example let's um let's go um damage some property let's right now go hurt this person right next to us or something like that that clearly crosses the line so the law gives an incredible incredible amount of leeway to the What's called the content of speech all right a lot of attention though focused on having tense on school grounds both in private universities and public universities where does that come in and is it different at a public university even though the content of the speech is protected a a university um like any like any governmental entity can do some um time place in manner restrictions and what it can do is to say for example that in the the public lands let's say the quad of the University of Minnesota for example in front of Northrup or or moral hall or something like that um it can say that you have to have a permit to be able to to um to to Camp or to let's say set up a a booth in terms of perhaps let's say doing leaf litting or something like that they can't make a judgment and say we like your message therefore you can camp we don't like your message you can't Camp they have to be again what's called content neutral and Viewpoint neutral they can't Target your speech but they can say that the camping is is a an activity in itself that's not speech and they can regulate that or perhaps ban that can the colleges kick these kids out for protesting in this way in violation of what they have said are their rules if they are punishing them for the content of their speech the answer is no if they're if they are punishing them for let us say violation of other types of rules let us say trespass and so forth they yes they can expel them or discipline them but the students are entitled to institutional due process um this Federal Constitution would require that they have some type of hearing now may not be a full-blown judicial hearing like we think about in court but some type of hearing um before a school can just expel them or um discipline them in some form of some form of fashion um all right well Professor David sches thank you so much I really appreciate your time my pleasure thank you up next we explore the motives of local protesters the vast majority of whom are not Palestinian Muslim or of Jewish Heritage all right well joining us right now is Freya wolf and she is actually one of the University of Minnesota's students who was arrested uh Freya thank you so much for joining us you're back on campus um why why are you doing this why are you engaging in these protests um I think it it comes from a lot I um I grew up in an anti-war Community during the Iraq War and the war on terror and I work with a lot of Afghan refugees in my home community and I just think that this level of Devastation and violence requires people to step up when they can and when they have the ability to and um I saw this as an opportunity to voice my voice and support people that I think need it I'd like to ask you about some of the criticisms that have been leveled at protesters by the Jewish community and not people were not in the Jewish Community one is that um you're minimizing what happened on October 7th do you think that's true um I don't think so I think we've talked about it a lot and I think Mass violence is always horrible and I understand that when people you love and care about die that is atrocious and not good but um I do just think we also just want to make sure we're protecting people and um in the end we just want um we want a lot of things but first we want to ceasefire um so yeah and also the criticism is that these protests are actually not so much against the policy of Israel but that they're anti-semitic and you've got kids or students or non- students you know yelling anti-semitic slurs is that happening and and do you feel these protests are anti-semitic um I'm not Jewish so I don't think I get the final say on that but I know there have been a lot of Jewish students an activist at our encampment and I've heard a couple of them speak and their opinions have been um very impactful and important um I have not heard any of the sort of any anti-semitic things um and I hope that is not happening anywhere that would be very again we have policies for our encampment and anybody that would do any sort of bigotry including and especially anti-Semitism wouldn't be allowed you're back on campus now um obviously you're still going through things with the university has is this has this been worth it to you what you've gone through I would say so yes um in the end we've had a lot of support from faculty and fellow students and the community in general so that has been great and made this a much easier process um and in the end I believe in what I'm fighting for and what I'm talking about and want an end to this genocide and the Relentless bombing of Palestinians so I do believe it was worth it yes and and you see this as a genocide which Israel steadfastly maintains it is not I think it's complicated and I don't actually fully understand the definition of genocide but I have seen a lot of experts call it that so that is what I'm going with right now but I am by no means an expert all right well Freya thank you so much I really appreciate your time thank you well joining us right now is Jillian wrath she has been part of the protest and she did just graduate from the University of Minnesota thank you so much for coming on yeah thanks for having me all right let me ask you first of all congratulations on graduating um first of all why are you doing this why are you involved in these protests well I mean me personally I've been involved in the movement for several years long before October 7th and I've actually even been protesting for a free Palestine long before October 7th um but right now this this is a really critical moment in this fight um because we are seeing mobilizations like we haven't ever seen before in in the fight for free Palestine and especially on college campuses where which is where I um my roots lie as an activist is um with students for Democratic Society at the University of Minnesota so right now this is like this is what we need to be doing as activists who have experience who organize on college campuses this is the movement that is blowing up right now all over the country um and I'm like really really happy and feel very powerful to be a part of it there are also critics that say this is one of the main criticism that that these protesters are minimizing or glossing over what happened on October 7th when more than 1100 Palestinians including a lot of young people at a concert were were slaughtered how do you respond to that well I respond on to that and telling people to look at the history of the Palestinians fight for Liberation it it goes long long before October 7th Palestine has been fighting for their land back and for their autonomy in nonviolent ways for a really really long time and have not been successful they have been met with starvation they have been met with violence and bombs and Gaza the people in Gaza have not been able to leave for decades and to that I say they have exhausted peaceful means in many ways and I think like looking at a fight for National Liberation in this way and saying that their use of violence is not valid or legitimate is ignoring the fact that they have been met with violence for for a long time okay are you but are you justifying what happened on October 7th we're not justifying by any means but we also know that National Liberation and the fight for Palestinian Freedom like like I said we we say by by any means necessary and they have exhausted most of their options for peaceful means they have where do you see this going um in the next few days few months um I mean our fight on campus like that's that's what I'm that's what we're focusing on right now is this small it's not a small demand but in relatively smaller demand of University divestment um I see this the student movement reaching much bigger levels than just our universities it's been getting Global attention there have been student protests happening on every single continent right now and people are paying attention I think thank you very much for explaining it uh to us we appreciate it yeah thank you and finally the University's perspective the U ofm has sent statements to students including these the University of Minnesota recognized that lawful protests are a form of free speech not only protected by the First Amendment but part of the public discourse of the university the expression of free speech must also respect the law and University policies which the university must uphold and the university has very little Direct business or investments in Israel or Palestine we have two study abroad programs in Israel currently suspended because of the war and that does it for this edition of talking points we will continue to follow this developing story here and at home and Across the Nation as always please send any comments or suggestions to Esme at wcco.com the show streams every Wednesday and Thursday at 6:30 and 9:30 p.m. on Friday it post to YouTube for on demand viewing thank you so much for watching I'm asme Murphy WCCO news

Channel: WCCO - CBS Minnesota

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Length: 25min 34sec (1534 seconds)

Published: Fri May 03 2024