Prince Arthur Tudor: What if he had lived to be King?

hello and welcome back to the channel if you're new here hi you are very welcome this is reading the past and I'm Dr Cat today I want to explore some more counterfactual history to take a look at what might have been if things had played out slightly differently if just one moment or one event had gone the other way this time I'm going to be asking what if Prince Arthur Tudor had lived let's take a look at it thank you [Music] before we begin I would like to briefly explain how I choose to approach the game of counterfactual history in particular I want to talk about the rules that I have chosen to impose upon myself firstly while this practice of counterfactual history is absolutely rooted in the available historical information at least as far as we know it I always try to remember that once we cross the Rubicon once we change the known historical event in our own minds whatever comes next however our discussion continues is only ever going to be educated guesswork now personally I think the value of this guesswork is that it forces us to shine a new light on the event in question the one we're changing it helps us I believe to really assess its impact and I think this assessment is made possible in large part because when we play this game it means that we have removed that particular historical event from the known timeline it's no longer part of that chain additionally I have set a rule for myself that I will only change one historical event at a time everything else I will be discussing unless I think it is likely or even conceivable that it would have been impacted by the change I've made will follow the historical record as far as we know it so with all that being said let's hop in Prince Arthur was born late on the 19th or perhaps early on the 20th of September 1486. he was the eldest child of King Henry VII and Elizabeth of York at the point of Arthur's birth the Tudor Dynasty's time on the throne had been relatively short after all his father's victory over King witch III at the Battle of Bosworth had taken place just a little over a year previously on the 22nd of August 1485. Henry then married Richard's niece the eldest daughter of king Edward IV and the sister of the so-called prince in the tower Elizabeth of York on the 18th of January 1486. and this is just eight months before the birth of Arthur so perhaps he came early or perhaps Elizabeth of York was already pregnant when this couple married is it even possible that Henry VII held off from marrying her until he had the tangible hope of an heir after all Elizabeth's coronation did not take place until the 25th of November 1487 which was more than a year after Arthur's birth alternatively did this couple think as I believe many of their contemporaries did that as they had promised to marry each other they were thus betrothed and that this was as good as being married that it was sufficient for them to consummate their relationship without any concern about either Divine or human judgment or indeed censure whatever the case may be a few days after his birth Arthur was baptized at Winchester Cathedral on the 24th of September 1486. it is thought that the choice of his name Arthur was meant to be an intentional reminder of his mythical namesake and his legendary rule that Arthur was part of a promise that through the Tudors there was now hope for the future on the 29th of November 1489 so just a little after his third birthday Arthur was made a night of the bath Earl of Chester and Prince of Wales more titles and roles would follow by May of 1490 he was called Warden of all the marches towards Scotland albeit in this role he did have a deputy in the form of Thomas Howard Earl of Surrey he was then given a role in legal matters as he was named on commissions of the peace from 1491 onwards October 1492 saw him named as keeper of England and also the king's Lieutenant while Henry VII was in France Arthur's Council for Wales was also gaining more Authority during this period too alongside this growing prominence and Authority within the realm which was clearly intended to prepare Arthur for kingship this little prince also benefited from the very finest academic education that could be obtained in England at that time according to reports this Prince of Wales would show himself to be both an able and a willing student negotiations for Arthur's marriage to Catherine of Aragon who was less than a year older than him had begun when the couple were toddlers betrayals and proxy marriages followed until the plans and Promises came to fruition when on the 2nd of October 1501 a nearly 16 year old Catherine finally landed in Plymouth her life in England had begun she was making ready to marry Arthur who had recently turned 15. the pair were wed at Saint Paul's Cathedral on the 14th of November 1501. in the following month V December Arthur and Catherine the newlyweds traveled to Ludlow where they would hold Court in person as The Prince and Princess of Wales at least they would for a few months because not long after they arrived this couple felt dangerously ill and for one of them this illness would of course prove fatal but today we are asking the question what would have happened if Arthur rather than dying on the 2nd of April 1502 had instead recovered as his wife Catherine did if he had then gone on to live long enough to follow his father and Rule as king of England I think it's fair to assume that following their recovery he and Catherine would continue to hold court principally at Ludlow that Arthur would have become more actively involved in the business of the council there as time went on they would though I think very likely travel to be part of key events and ceremonies at the court of King Henry VII and Elizabeth of York perhaps when this court was in London The Prince and Princess of Wales would be given a dedicated Palace for their use on these occasions but if not they would certainly have had access to an entire Suite of apartments at whatever Palace the king and queen were at that time in which to hold themselves their household and servants traveling or progressing around the country with the court and also in their own right is something that would allow this Prince and Princess of Wales to enjoy the hospitality of the English nobility in addition to being seen by the people and all of this would make for a smooth transition when it was their turn to become the key and queen perhaps they were in London or its environs in order to witness the proxy marriage of Arthur's Sister Margaret which took place on the 15th of January 1503 this proxy marriage was to prepare for Margaret's move to Scotland to become the wife and queen of King James IV is it possible that they remained with the Royal Court when Elizabeth of York gave birth to her last child Catherine which happened at the Tower of London on the 2nd of February 1503. mother and child would unfortunately die within days of this birth and perhaps if they were there Arthur and Catherine would have performed public duties in relation to the Queen's funeral in addition to privately mourning her with their family did they stay or perhaps return to see Margaret off on her journey to Scotland on the 8th of July 1503. if Arthur and Catherine's marriage proved to be a happy one of mutual love and support Catherine I think would likely have turned to Arthur for Solace when she received news of her mother's death which occurred on the 26th of November 1504. Catherine's marriage to the surviving Arthur would have altered the Diplomatic situation here with Catherine's father and her brother-in-law now vying for control of Castile they were looking to offer brides and they could do so to Henry VII and or to his younger son Henry but the heir was spoken for I think this would have made this particular marriage Market slightly less febrile especially if Catherine was pregnant or had given birth by this point indeed her views on how to proceed in these negotiations may have even held more weight with her father-in-law and I do wonder who she would have ended up supporting her father Ferdinand suggested that his niece Joanna Dowager queen of Naples would be a fitting Bride for the Recently widowed King Henry VII well her brother-in-law husband to her sister Juana was offering Margaret of Austria for this King instead however Philip and Juana also had two young daughters and two young Sons by this point they could also have played a part maybe Eleanor and Isabella might have been suggested as potential matches for Arthur's little brother Prince Henry maybe Charles and Ferdinand might be offered to Arthur's sister the princess Mary or perhaps these matches were instead seen as being more suitable for the children who were being created by Arthur and Catherine with the heir of England married and possibly producing Heirs of his own already perhaps King Henry VII would have agreed to one of the marriage treaties that were on offer from either Ferdinand of Aragon or from Philip and Juana of Castile alternatively perhaps he would have liked to avoid placing himself in the middle of their dispute and instead may have chosen to make a marriage contract with France where King Louis XII was offering Margarita Von Golem as a possible Bride for King Henry VII either way I think it's fairly safe to say that when Juana and Philip were forced by storms to make land in England in the January of 1506 they would have spent time with Arthur and Catherine at Henry VII court at Windsor but perhaps they would also have been hosted by this couple in their own Palace too following the death of King Henry VII on the 21st of April 1509 in this timeline it would be his 22 year old son who would follow him onto the throne Prince Arthur would become King Arthur he would no doubt have been crowned beside his 23 year old wife within just a couple of months now as we do not know the exact cause of Catherine of Aragon struggles with trial bearing we simply cannot know if things would have been different for her due to being married to Arthur however they may well have been not only because staying married to Arthur takes Henry out of the equation but also because for the years between 1502 and 1509 she would not have been subjected to the turmoil and neglect that she absolutely was during her period as Arthur's Widow instead for these years she would have been the honored Princess of Wales with a husband beside her to share her bet and so perhaps Catherine went to her coronation having already provided England with a prince of Wales someone who could replace her husband in that role as he became king and perhaps that boy already had siblings brothers and sisters who would secure the true Dynasty and further its influence abroad through a series of diplomatic marriages on the other hand if there were no surviving male heirs born to this couple at all it's possible I think that Catherine if she had not experienced the torment of those years as dowder Princess might have agreed or even volunteered to retire from her marriage I think it's likely that she would have gone into a religious order perhaps as an abyss or certainly as a nun or living alongside them this would then allow Arthur to marry again and pursue getting Heirs of his own alternatively she might have stayed in her place remained as Queen of England as her husband and all of England looked instead to her brother-in-law Prince Henry as the heir presumptive and also as a possible producer of Sons of his own through the marriage that would be made for him I don't think that we would see anything akin to the great matter taking place for Arthur's Court and Country Arthur had been raised from his birth to be king he had experience of governance in his role of Prince of Wales indeed Rosemary Horrocks points out that quote conciliate Authority in the marches was strengthened in March 1493. by the grant of various powers to the prince including the power to appoint justices of Oya and termina and to inquire into franchises in November that year he received an extensive land grant in the region including the Estates of the earldom of March the fact that Arthur had a younger brother that England had both an air and a spare so to speak would I believe likely have encouraged his father to give him greater freedoms in terms of the physical Pursuits he was allowed to engage in and just generally in terms of the independence he would be permitted to enjoy than if Arthur had been the lone male Heir in terms of his temperament and potential approach to monarchy there is much to suggest that Arthur was quite similar to his father and so I think it likely that he would as Henry VII had done have cultivated a trusted circle of advisors around him when he became king perhaps in fact many of those who had served his father would have been transferred over to him but one thing I think is almost certain is that Arthur would have wanted to be fully across all of the business of states and by that I mean that I think that there probably wouldn't have been room for there to be a standout star to emerge from his counselors for example I don't think that Thomas Woolsey would have been able to enjoy the same meteoric rise and ultimate prominence under Arthur as he did under King Henry VII I do wonder whether Arthur would have shared his brother Henry's drive to lay claim to and wage war 4 French land in the early years of his Reign and if he didn't then in turn I wonder whether England would have been drawn into the so-called holy League because if they weren't then logically there would have been no invasion of France in 1512 and thus James IV of Scots is I think unlikely to have invaded England and thus he would not have been killed at the Battle of flodden in 1513 instead he would have survived continued to rule in Scotland with Arthur's Sister Margaret at his side as his Queen what though of Arthur's other surviving siblings Mary I think would almost certainly have been married off as part of some diplomatic deal and perhaps the Aging King Louis XII of France would still have been her group however I do think that it is perhaps more likely that Mary's betrothal to Philip and Juana of castile's son Charles who would go on to become the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V would instead have been allowed to stand that it is him that she would have married and thus Mary Tudor would have lived out her days as Holy Roman empress as for Prince Henry Duke of York with his well-known passion for physical Pursuits and War Games I I think he could have been the ideal fixer or perhaps that should be hatchet man in support of his brother's rule that he would have been first in line to put down any Rebellion willing to bring both the nobility and the commons to heal this were the case I think we can safely assume that a fittingly Royal match would have been found for Prince Henry likely I think a Spanish or even a Portuguese princess perhaps whoever she was if she were Spanish or Portuguese she would bring to her marriage adary that might include lands in these so-called New World which had been for the most part split between Spain and Portugal and if this had been the case then England would have got its first Toe Hold in the Americas around a century before the creation of Jamestown ever happened I do question though what this particular regime and its successes would have made of that toehold in terms of the founding of colonies and when I think about it my inclination is probably not that much there is however another possible future for Prince Henry albeit one that I think would only have been possible if Arthur and Catherine had managed to sufficiently fill a nursery of their own children and that future would have seen Henry be allowed to pursue his evident interest in ecclesiastical matters professionally I'm saying that rather than marry he might have been able to become a Churchman Henry's defense of the seven sacraments which was published in 1521 as a response to Martin Luther's publication of his 95 Theses would I believe still have earned him the praise of Pope Leo the 10th to whom this text was dedicated I think that Henry would have received preferential treatment in both Rome and in England at some point he would I believe have been made both a Papal legate and a cardinal after William morum's death in 1532 Henry could well have replaced him as the Archbishop of Canterbury might Henry in his time as a Churchman have managed to position himself in such a way that he could even have been elected Pope in 1534 following the death of Clement VII having considered this new timeline and its options I certainly don't think that the Reformation would have come to England when how or why it did author like his siblings was raised in obedience to the Roman Catholic church and his Queen Catherine was also known to be utterly devout in her faith too if anything with the possibility of there being more Habsburg Tudor marriages being made during Arthur's Reign I think that instead the Inquisition would have held greater presence in England than the Reformation at least for a while with that being said what can't be ignored is that there was a spread of reforming thought in Europe and we should pay particular attention to the locations where that spread was happening during the 16th and 17th centuries England's nearest neighbors would become increasingly Lutheran or calvinist it is likely then I think that the Reformation would have arrived in England eventually and when it did it would have been more recognizably Lutheran or more possibly calvinist in form this would in turn have affected the doctrine practice and worship style of the church in England it would have looked more like the Church of its neighbors rather than the Roman Catholic light version that Henry VII actually created following on from this if the faith of England had become Lutheran or indeed calvinist in character I do wonder whether anyone would have felt the need to board the Mayflower to set sail for America and the promise of freedom to practice their faith as they saw fit as Arthur's father and two of his siblings Margaret and Henry lived into their 50s we might suppose that aside from an accident or illness Arthur might expect to enjoy the same Longevity if so this would have seen him surviving into the mid to late 1530s and if he lived this long he may in fact have outlived his wife Catherine of Aragon who died on the 7th of January 1536. if she had borne Arthur's son perhaps before this couple's own accession to the throne in 1509 then that boy would have been at least in his mid-20s when it was his time to come to the throne and this would have given him if he existed plenty of time to have married and produced Heirs of his own before he ever became king maybe then England's royal family would still be carrying the surname Tudor today and I did deliberately say England because if this were the case then presumably there would have been no Union of the crowns under King James VI and first in fact there would have been no King James the first and thus no United Kingdom later either when this lack of United Kingdom is coupled with the potential of England having a much diminished role in the plantation and colonization of America then the place of England as a nation and also the English language would surely be markedly different than it is today but what do you think of this counterfactual history that I have presented today do you agree with me or do you have a different interpretation of how things might have played out as always I'm looking forward to reading your conversations in the comments section underneath this video but I would also love it if you could pop an emoji or social glyph in the comments too and that is because the more engagement a video gets the more YouTube recognizes it as something that's worth sharing and that in turn helps us to grow this community I in terms of an emoji I'm happy to do free choice but maybe you could let me know what you think the family of Arthur and Catherine might have looked like how many princes and princesses do you think they might have had why not put those emojis in the comment section for me you can also find me Elsewhere on social media I will leave links to all the places you can find me on the internet in my description box please do follow me over on some or all of those so that we can continue this conversation and start some others I do hope that you enjoyed this video and found it useful and if you did please share it with your friends in fact if you like the channel let your pals know about it you can let me know that you like this particular video by hitting the thumbs up please do subscribe to the channel and if you think you're subscribed have a little check make sure that YouTube has not unsubscribed you against your will and while you're there checking subscribing Maybe re-subscribing please do hit the Bell icon that sits beside the Subscribe button and then select all in the drop down that will appear so that YouTube will tell you when I've next uploaded and also when I am next planning to go live which I know you do not want to miss I hope that you're gonna have a great day whatever you're doing and I look forward to speaking to you all in my next video take care of yourselves bye for now [Music]

Channel: Reading the Past

Views: 45,318

Keywords: Tudor, Jacobean, Elizabethan, Education, Literature, Culture, History, Early Modern, Renaissance

Id: E9H4y-JiYwk

Length: 25min 20sec (1520 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 21 2023