Power vs. Force - Dr. David Hawkins Interview part 1

ready doctor well we were we were have our we had yeah rolling well we were having a good time do we stop and get serious no no where we include the audience yeah let's include the audience Oh Greg bring him up to speed I'm talking to dr. David Hawkins he's an MD MD PhD PhD and at NJ and he's been knighted don't forget so you've been knighted well my Reelfoot title in the East they call me sir doctor doctor sir doctor doc yes because I mean I was knighted by the crown of the Danish crown me one plus two I have two doctorates don't need to call me sir doctor doctor sir don't need ya I mean sir doctor doctor either yeah well look that's right you probably haven't a any sir doctor doctors before welcome to new realities my name is Alan Steinfeld and on this program I'd like to talk about consciousness the evolution of spirituality and who we are as an involving race of human beings looking looking for enlightenment I would say looking for an expansion of their own personal consciousness into a greater greater mind tonight's guest is someone who's investigated these fields who's written three books and more on the subject these dr. David Hawkins MD PhD knighted doctor and I'd say Authority unconsciousness that's what they say that's what they said he's the author of power versus force which really put him on the map and then there was the eye of the eye and his latest is eye reality and subjectivity thank you dr. Hawkins that's fun to be here your investigations go into the field of what is consciousness and the measurements of consciousness but how do you define consciousness to begin with it's the infinite field that is the subs the matrix out of which all experience arises the very basis of subjectivity the only reason we know that where you're talking is because subjectively we're aware of it and we're aware of it subjectively because we're conscious and that conscious so we share access to a fuel of consciousness right but then it becomes individualized as the the I you know this field of consciousness each of us thinks it's uniquely ourselves uniquely yourself but but because it's filtered through this little vessel of a perception right we call that me right right regional self right the book is how to transcend it the realization that it's not just personal that it's the ultimate infinite source of all existence frankly this little me is the ultimate source of all existence well the illusion that there's that you're limited right you're limited little little I whereas actually the ordinance of your little eyes coming from the big eye which includes the subjectivity of all of all of mankind of all of life but in your books and lectures you talk about how the mine then though intercepts that that little lion thinks it's in control yeah it gives it content and form and then we label it me the mind we label me but the mind in some people uh that I've met say the mind is the illusion of of the me it C is a it's a it's limited to a personalization news actually we just print we've personalized the general and then call the personalized section me and and the mind though is is is when you're in your lecture you said only one percent of the totality of this consciousness that's true the mind is ninety ninety nine percent silent only one percent is talking and that one percent has hypnotized the recall of me all right so there's really no difference between me and you mm-hmm well I have a personalized section of it you have personalized section emergency that there that that part is unique but the generality the reason we understand each other is because we share a commonality call consciousness although there'd be no understanding between us and you've also talked about how we demonize the ego into being something you know to reject and push away but it's really part of our conscious evolution that to this great mind if you drag the evolution of consciousness on this on this planet it started millennia ago and yes there we gave a lecture on the subject and then pointed out how it started out really with the bacteria were the first conscious entities on this planet right and then on up through the animal kingdom two hominids Neanderthal man cro-magnon man and each each level is an expansion of this of this concentrator and greater awareness back to the awareness of where it began would you say oh I track where it originated so that we get to understand what the ego is and how we should how we should position wise our self about it well where is look at it well how should we look at the I mean it's not something to reject because people who haven't a strong ego development never get to dissolve the ego that's my understanding that that's one theory that you have to first develop any good in order to get rid of it exact truth it was true yes yeah right you know in your own process you know you talked about your experience there was a point where you weren't a theater what you had some revelations younger and then you were an atheist and then you sort of come full circle what what exactly happened what was the thing that ignited that conscious awareness that you were not this limited being but something greater okay you know for since I was three years old there was a focus almost an obsession about discerning what is truth and what is the nature truth it started out with our other major kind of what people would call spiritual realizations and confrontations and that led me into like a driven us to discover what is the core the essence of truth but what were the spiritual revelations that happen here well at age three that was another astonishing one as I said prior to age 3 there was nothing about oblivion and then suddenly at age 3 it was somebody turned on the klieg lights like you're in the dark saying and I was sudden these lights come on and I suddenly realized I exist as a self-referential calm well there was a there was just the ordinal there was not even a personal self there was just an awareness of existence as a stunning reality prior to which there was no awareness of existence so suddenly I'm confronted with existence as such which was not pleasing it was out no because with non-existence you have frankly nothing to worry about existence instantly the first fear came up if you exist the possibility would have been that you might not have come into existence this was all nonverbal at age 3 I had no such words but there was a complete awareness that I exist consequently it could have come about that I would not have come into existence so the first confrontation was is the ultimate reality existence or non-existence you know did the Buddha but the fact that you did exist proved existence in a sense you know they don't you think there's only you know the things are what they are and and and the ideas of hypothesizing that they could have been is also the creation of the mind that was the immediate contrary so it was though the polarity of existence first is non-existence right ok and of course everybody fears that in the form of death they think that if I die I will no longer exist because they identify with the body as who they are so then they fear so everybody lives with a fear of death instead of dead identifying with consciousness which is empty which is beyond death right but it you know it's unless one goes through certain experiences that is not apparent at all but as you progress from 3 with that kind of rather than what was the next phase then the sense itself would tend to disappear from individual personal self into sort of a universal universality and I will in third grade you know and I would be sitting in the chair and I have to remind myself that I'm David and I'm sitting in this chair but I'm just me you know because the self would just become like universal if he didn't realize yourself I would be occupy myself with with a you know reminding myself that I'm an individual person and my name is David and I'm sitting here this chair and I'm doing spelling thing right I know I often have to remind myself of my name because it's just it's just a label of identification to produce mom's right while you're catch it this is moving beyond the ordinary Maya so you keep reminding yourself you're Dave and you're sitting in this I was doing this in grade school yeah right and and then because then you was a place you will you rejected it all when you got into science well before that when I was a paperboy I was constant out in the blizzard to get out of the blizzard after dark I climbed into a snow bank to get away from the terrible wind ten below zero and pitch black I was on the country no lights no houses they're here by yourself in the blizzard and the only concern was getting away from the wind so I dug a hole on the snow bank and and sat out of the wind and all of a sudden the most exquisite like you were melted by an infinite love of infinite power like dissolved here you're dissolved and outside of time and space and just this infinite presence the presence not was not different than the core in essence of that which I am it was also beyond time so I realized that that which I am existed for before all universes and will continue on after all universes have gone and this condition was beyond time so you experience you actually experience it like through the eons you're already beyond all time and space so and all that's nonverbal but it's stunningly aware so that was the first experience in what spiritually is call the cell phone Capital is or the trend said yeah the transcendence of the time I'd never heard of it and how old were you oh twelve fourteen thirteen and that experience never left you I mean how could he right well it leaves a profound imprint profound knowingness so anything less than that is not of the same rank but then you progress to be a doctor and study and kind of stuff your consciousness back into you into your wealth and then I really researched the nature of the unconscious you know you know there's and then in myself and four years of psychoanalysis professor training analysts from Columbia University which so Freud mer that my great-grandfather Freud to analyze Gardiner who analyzed oversee who analyzed me so my Greek is it his front great genius but he seems obvious but he stopped his theories when it got beyond the personal self it didn't he he couldn't go into the into the place young one no he didn't go where Jung went and so there was a limitation but he discovered the profound importance of the unconscious and of course we you know just accept that you know it was a novel idea turn the century but everybody accepts that we have an unconscious and it plays a big part in our life in the unconscious though now I think in the place we are evolutionarily evolutionary wise and it's going into this spiritual awareness so the unconscious and the spirit are kind of merging yeah yes so Jung went further than Freud so great calibrated for 99 and Jung calibrated at 5:20 I think people know I calibrate just renew and I will join ok ok no but but as far as your process like once once you kind of had that experience as at well then you tried to understand the unconscious but you start to close well I was brought up very religiously I was a Christian yeah visca pillion I was going and I was a boy soprano Michael and I was quite religious a scrupulous group velocity and almost and one time I was out in the out in the woods by myself and we've ever got to talk about an elect at all and all of a sudden out of nowhere came out a comprehension of the totality of the suffering of all of mankind throughout all of time I wasn't thinking about it I was just walking through the woods and suddenly I saw the totality of all of the suffering of all of mankind through all the time and you felt that as well it was you know a realization and and in that instant I became an atheist really I said I couldn't because God in the in that time was considered to be the creator of everything when I saw the totality the suffering of mankind I said I cannot believe in the God that would have created that night yes they became an atheist and now I became an intense atheist to the same degree I'd been an intense religionist and I became a militant atheist you know and then what later went on to a Jesuit University where I'm getting straight A's and theology and the physics at all because you couldn't believe God would create that much suffering that's right so I hope but that's not uh not an uncommon misconception ya million atheist becomes an atheist because he holds God responsible for the suffering of mankind oh yeah so how would you get beyond that I mean you're lucky to get know many people don't know many years that was a very tense atheist probably twenty years it also makes them miserable as well it makes those thoughts no no because it was great to get rid of religion because sin and guilt went with it uh-huh goodbye sin and go I was a free agent so you said was so much suffering no I don't want to take on the responsibilities too much I'm a God could never created this this world full of that so but how did you resolve it what was your next steps well me I became an atheist so angry God knows if got there was a God he created all this suffering right I didn't want to do with them so I disconnected from and became an atheist so they're kind of there isn't any God saying so then I was intense atheist many years and then became involved the continuous search into the truth of reality and by then I'd met psychoanalyze idlers looking at looking within looking within for the source of the sense of existence itself and I went into it i doand to the unconscious and I went it was sort of like Dante's hell I went in deeper and deeper levels and eventually felt complete abandonment and I researched I really ended up in the depths of hell and with I don't know Dante understood hell mean alone and isolated and shutoff is that what the ground oh the top level of Hell is torture and you know people being dismembered and crap what usually if you will think of as hell mm-hmm which is Jack's for openers that mean that's just torture and horror right and then it begins to get bad plays then what horror really means all of a sudden you become almost that out of which horror arises and then start then you enter the level of despair and then you start going into the lower depths of Hell which are not really describable although I think that oddly understood it because here there's an absolute aloneness that is forever it's the foreverness and the agony of absolute aloneness you're like cut off from God completely and there's like a knowingness as you go beyond to the glory depths of hell it's almost like a sign that says abandon all hope ye who enter here I don't know how daddy knew that but by God is like a sign there on knowingness beyond this there is no hope ever and now understand what eternity means that you're hopeless through all eternity and there is no recourse possible it's dread and it's timeless just like the highest levels are timeless the lowest levels are timeless and the timelessness of forever dread a voice within said if there is a God I ask him to help me and then came oblivion and after the Oblivion cleared I don't know one was there hours or a day but there was a surrender into that place no no surrender wasn't a fight it was just an accessory toplessness is anything with which to fight or to avoid but the hopeless hope hope is abandoned there's neither hope nor whether ever be any relief from endless agony forever forever agony forever agony with no hope ever anyway the voice a voice within said if there is God I ask him for help and then everything went blank then came in awakening a recurrent return of consciousness and the mind had become silent this instant the mind is still silent and it was replaced by a brilliant revelation of the divinity of all that exists yeah how do you describe the Vinit in their way the totality the onus of that which is reveals itself as a oneness but with a radiance with the radiance it's like you can see green but with LSD the green now shines forth it was like a shining forth the obvious divinity of all that exists you know and it was stunning and incapacitating and therefore not long after I frankly left the world I left the world at that time I had the largest psychiatric practice a night States had 50 people working for me in research laboratories and all and a very elegant lifestyle about as elegant as you can get frankly and and I walked away from it all and spent some years in solitude as to how to refund in the world because there was this a continuous of feeling this divinity or was it a momentary the overwhelm of the of the realm of Revelation slowly could calm down to the point that you could function but it took some years and even though it's not perfectly adjusted especially where the body is in space and things but you don't want it to I mean isn't the idea of existence to live in that world of divine revelation or divinity with foot in this world as well oh that's an intellectual concept tags as subjectively it isn't that way it's objectively there's no interest in the body on eating UK all the bodily functions services cease either that are you lose your awareness of them and there's a certain degree of learning how to be in the world again frankly is this is where you are now this is ivory learned how to be in the world into a fairly good to very fairly good degree and where the body is and not you see when you're no longer the body you see people talking to this body and you wonder who were they talking to I'm not there you can see oh they all think that you're that oh I'll God so then you got to reconnect mmm in a in a way that's really hard to describe yeah I've had census of that so you feel like you're not this you're this awareness that encompasses both and all and it's not even that it's it's not I'm telling a good is because you're none of that that's the difficulty I guess there's no way to talk I'm trying to intellectually I say what you lay out your trinket get a description of what it was literally I guess there's no way to describe you have to have the experience you have to you know it's not even an experience is it cuz the experience is still filtered through the me ones yes but we're trying to describe you know a phenomena that's rather rare in history and has been described periodically hmm and it's only described with some difficulty you can only get an approximation to it you know and it still doesn't give people the experience of it I mean we you know to the uninitiated wouldn't mean anything really right because I mean it's people are curious about it so they asked about it because of curiosity so where are you now you've had what's the implication for them that's the real Lord's well its plan to see probably for that I could say there might be something that they might go through or realize at some point that will match this or the process is called the process is called real relinquish in the ego the progressive relinquishment of the eagle and you know determination of identifying oneself as the mind and its intellectual functioning so at that point you're no longer the body you're no longer the mind nor are you limited in time or space which is hard to describe yeah and also you talk about not a good job of describing it but the fact that the mind creates continuity that you know these thoughts have a continuous sequence and you saying that's also an illusion because each thing arises separately and the world looks to the average human mind like a world of causality right a Newtonian paradigm where there's a this that causes of that and as we try to explain it doesn't really work that way what happens is that a potentiality becomes an actuality and that is witnessed sequentially and therefore you think there's causality in the world causality is in the mind so the most important thing I try to teach and transcending that identification with the ego in the mind is the difference between what the card calls rests interna that is that of the mind and res externa that of the world and the illusion is that one thinks that what was he's in the mind then they projected on the world and they think that's in the world they think it's real alright so causality makes sense to the mind so it Breo zooms therefore that it's out there it's a presumption the out there has no concepts so causality couldn't be out there because that's only a concept which you all can only exist in your head but there is there is something out here right there is there is a world that we are are interacting with there it read the bird differently goes but what is that world there's no way you know it well oh we don't really know it except by it's of our subjective experience of its phenomena so we are processed processing you know sequences of phenomenon that's what our mind is doing all the time and what's the point of that if it's that's an illusion what way is the point of oh it's not necessarily an illusion because the subjective reality is a subjective reality and there's an external reality that's also like external reality but it seems like the subjective reality is the illusion the fact that there's a me and a you of personal that's that's a presumption presumption so what we try to do is transcend the presumptions of the mind and the presumptions of the mind that come about because of the structure of the ego so what we try to do is go back in time and see how did the ego arise and we see that the fuel of consciousness itself is infinitely powerful and when it interacted with matter on this planet out of that arose life so right life arose out of the infinite fuel of conscious as itself which alone has the pulse efficient power but you could say in turn if you look on you can also say God I like infinite field better but people have said God right because God is for the same reason the Buddha said is better not to mention God people have all kinds of conceptions about God but consciousness sounds more a little safer yeah yeah and of course then you see the evolution of consciousness up through the animal kingdom in fact you can calibrate the energy the calibrated levels of consciousness throughout the animal kingdom so the infinite awareness out his man then it was eventually caught to man and we're and as we head back to the infinite consciousness as a man is the is the bridge from me from the spark of life back to the infinite consciousness you come to the bridge yeah and a kid comes full circle then so so then he has this protoplasm in a body right and he has an animal animal brain and animal instincts and that's the basis of the structure of the ego is the animal side yeah that's the beginning of it and we share many things with the animal territoriality and you know food all that also and then on top of being an animal we develop a prefrontal cortex oh we were doing okay so we got a prefrontal cortex now what did that do for us now yeah up here you have the capacity of the angelic well you know the word us of spirituality and in the back of the brain you're still an animal so man has the unenviable position of having the instincts of the animal and the forebrain of the angel and so his life is very very difficult

Channel: NewRealities

Views: 422,438

Keywords: MNNNYC, MNNTV, Newrealities, AlanSteinfeld, Body, spirit, soul, consciousness, Power vs. Force

Id: b7k1dxdv10g

Length: 28min 26sec (1706 seconds)

Published: Thu Jan 21 2016