Pocket Holes Tips and Tricks by OTB Thinker

hmm hey hi there Russ here welcome back to the shop today I want to talk about pocket screws again sorry not my fault I have a new subscriber he's been methodically going to all my video study with the first one and working his way through and he's up to the one about the strongest joint in plywood which is basically the tone alien pocket hole screws and he says he doesn't like to use pocket hole screws because when he tightens him down they move on him and doesn't stay right where he wants it and I can't took me by surprise but it got me to thinking that he's probably not the only one that has that problem from time to time I had that problem but I've since then really understand why it doesn't so I it's not really a problem anymore as long as I take certain precautions so let's talk about why it would do that why does it move so if you take a piece of wood and look at this pretty simple but if you have a couple of pocket hole screws in it and you have a pocket hole screw in and they go in at an angle so basically this thing is going through here about like hahaha let's try this again okay and it goes through here kind of like that and it's so it's at an angle the problem with that is it gives it strength in some ways especially if you put pocket holes on both sides of the board they're coming in and angling and toenails but the real problem that you can hand that he was talking about is like here I have this line right here and if I click this right on that line and I put those two screws in there and tighten down this board will actually walk that direction because the screw is going in at an angle it actually pushes that board away from the line then if I turned it around and had to line up to this line and I put them in from this side when I screw them down they would walk this way off the line and so they inherently will not stay where you start the screws in and if that is if that position is to you then you just have to do some simple things with it Craig come out with two different jigs to solve this problem and a lot of the times these were crying and that's what I use but sometimes you have to go a little bit different sometimes you have to be creative depends on what kind of pocket screw joinery you're doing how you're putting these two boards together so real quick if you don't know how to use these there's lots of videos out there about how to use them but the thing you want to do is that if you take a board like this let's say and you want to make a buck connection between the two boards so you have the one board here and you want to attach it board just like that make it flush on both sides this one all you have to do is take it put it between across the scene of the two boards coming together and clamp it down and that's not very tight and then you take and you clamp it down now when I put those two screws in there that board is going to go straight down because this is holding that board from shifting this way if I try to tighten it down now that board will want to walk away from me and this flush edge would have what actually this piece would be further back if I turn it around this way and tighten it down that boy is gonna want to come toward me and then it would be not flush on both sides when I got done so it's predictable where it goes this helps keep it in alignment here the other thing you can do is that if you're on a flat surface and you have two boards coming in to each other like so and these screws are going in you can take and either tighten down each board individually like so and tighten it down and that will hold them flush against the table so that when you pull it together it will stay flush or you can take just one and put it across that joint like that and put them in and that'll help hold that straight so that keeps it from moving if you're doing two boards this way but the other type of joint that you use a lot is you put the board together in this fashion like corner legs with two narrow boards and this would be like a corner leg on a table from if you're doing cabinets and this is two pieces of plywood this would be your side and this would be your top of your bottom and so you would put them on this way and of course it would be much longer if it was a cabinet so when you put them on this way and you want these boards you want these boards to stay there if I put it on like this and if I don't put some kind of preventive thing on it when I tighten those screws down it's gonna pull in two here if I put them to the inside and I do this this board is gonna walk out and it'll be beyond this board here you'll have a lip and so it's critical that this is held in place exactly like it needs to be if you're gonna do this just put the two boards this way when you go to put the screw on it and fasten this down and just clamp this and you can get that the other thing you can do is if you want to put two screws in on this type of joint you can use the other grip that they have and you just take the ones around and and it goes into one of the pocket hole screws then you line everything up and you clamp it down and that holds it so that when you put the screws in everything will stay right put make sure you tighten this down to the table if you can if you're doing this on a big piece of plywood you have two pieces if this was a big piece and this is going in the middle here and you want it to remain straight and in place he said that he has to that's why he prefers dedos because that way it sets right exactly in place and then he just and toenails again with his bride nail but Norman like norm Abram did for years and years but without that if you do pocket screws instead all you have to do is again you have to understand where does that board going to go when you tighten it down if they were on this side it's gonna push that board that way if I put them on this way it's gonna push that board this way so if you have a line here you have a place where you want that to go then what you want to do is on the opposite side of where your screws are you take another piece and line it up right on those on those marks then Snug it down on each end like so and obviously the bigger the board the different places you that you're doing into on the board and that will dictate how you do this so you have to be creative but you want to put a backup board on here right on that line where you want that to set the two screws on the opposite side and it's butted up against you're stopped you're stopped block line it up where you want it put your two screws in there then you can take this piece back off that will hold that where you want it and when you take it away this is enough to hold this from driving it this way it'll stay there from that point forward so you just have to make sure you that you lock it down so that when you tell when you push this and tighten it down it's not going to shift in the direction that is predictable by wife everywhere that angle is going so those are that's how you basically do it it's not hard to do but you got to do it hold him in will not guarantee it to stay put so if it's critical that it stays in one particular exact spot you got to put it back the board on it in some way or a clamp so the other thing I kind of talk about after the movement is 3/4 versus half inch and even less I have here two boards one is 7/16 one is a half inch thick and this one is 3/4 if I put them all down on the table here and I'm going to put the pocket hole downward so you can see it easier and of course because there are different thicknesses there are different heights here but where the pocket hole comes out the distance between that hole and this table and so that surface here to the edge of that where that screw comes at the end that's always the same all the way across whether it's a 7/16 half inch or 3/4 or even inch and a half I use pocket screws on inch and a halves all the time usually if I'm doing something that thick I almost always put pocket screws on both sides to the toenail again and that makes them really super joint but with this in mind that this is even then all you have to remember that you can still do turner pieces like this I just build this with the standard drill bit even though it's a half-inch and they tell you to use the smaller screen I don't I just use these same ones if I'm going into a 3/4 inch piece of material this way I still follow the same rules I look for it to line up if I need to I clamp a piece there to hold it because it still will walk but once you get this piece where you want it and you lock it down even though this is a half inch piece of wood I am screwing into a 3/4 therefore that that joint is just as good as if this was both hat 3/4 inch pieces of wood so you don't need the micro jig screws in order to tighten thinner put thin of wood together now again this is if this piece where the screw is going through if you think about where the threads are gonna be and if I take the same here and now I want to screw to a half inch board that's when you have to pay attention that if you're going to use screws like this so let's say I'm going to use a half inch here and let's put a three quarter inch piece here now if I put the screws in this way the screw will go in it'll actually go through a half inch piece of board just ever so slightly so if I lock this in here trying to get over my bench doll hole and if you can see that that's barely sticking through this so it actually penetrated through the other side to prevent that instead of just putting the screws straight in to the 1/2 inch of material what you want to do is take that screw and grind the tip off just a little bit on your belt grinder on your on something just grind off about a sixteenth of an inch then you take a set a new screw you put this where you want it and this one still has a good point and you put that one in place and screw it down but only screw it about two-thirds of the way in and that way you've got to start a whole now then when you take the other screw and put it in because it's shorter now you can shoe that in all the way and it will not come out the other side so just remember that you just have to shorten my tiny bit drill a starter hole and then use these and you can go into half-inch wood even with these so even the 7/16 this is a 7/16 inch piece pocket hole screws on this side we've turned it over that screw hole is coming out right at this edge of the face of the board on the opposite side so 7/16 is about the breaking point avoid that screw is gonna start shoring up here this actually broke off chipped off it was so thin that chipped off that little tiny piece right there off of the board so that I could see the screw when this is screwed down in place so you can do this but you'll be able to see it so can you do thinner wood with packing screws sure the big thing to keep in mind is where that threads are going to be when you're done if it's going into half-inch material you gotta address the issue of shortening their screw a little bit and you can still use it if so you can still only have to buy the one jig and once that one kind of screws you don't have to buy the smaller set I have them I very rarely use them quite honestly most of time this is what I do so keep that in mind when you're doing screws into thinner wood you can do that believe it or not the other thing I'm talking about real quick here is ingrained edge grain and face green on plywood you have your face grain and then you have your edge grain here and here so if you take your screw your pocket hole and you put it in this way you're going to cross grain the threads are going to build cross grain to the plywood that's a strong hold if you go this way like this now those threads are going into the edge this joint is not going to be as strong so basically what I'm telling you is that there's two ways to put two pieces of wood together let's move that out of the way and that is that if I take this piece here have my pocket hole screws here coming out the end of the board and they're going into edge grain here that's gonna be a good strong joint because where are the threads are going into and they'll be strong if I turn that around and I put my pocket screws on this piece and now this piece is going to accept those two pocket screws I'm actually screwing into angering this joint is not going to be anywhere near as strong as the other way so keep in mind where you put your pocket screws don't do it reverse like this if you do well I think they're back you can do this it'll hold it just isn't gonna hold near as strong as it is the other way so keep in mind of where the angle that your pocket holes are going in at and that'll tell you the movement and think about once you the screws in place is that we're gonna be in solid wood across the grain or is it going to go into the end grain and that's what you want to pay attention to and try to avoid putting those threads in to end grain anywhere so if you take two boards that are pieces of plywood and you want to join them together with this kind of joint can you do that yeah you didn't do that but this is actually not a very strong joint if I was going to do this joint here I would try to find some way to put screws in from both sides that way by them going in at an angle that'll make that joint a little stronger also I would always use glue on this type of joint to make it give it every better help that I can speaking of glue that's the other thing that I do a lot that I wanted to bring out when I do joints if I'm doing a project or a shot a project for outside around the house or something and I'm doing pocket holes to join it I don't ever use glue and this that doesn't really add that much strength to a joint like this the amount of strength that you get out of this joint doesn't really increase all that much believe it or not when you put a joint where the angering or the edge of the plywood is where the screw is going to go into you need all the help you can get then you want to glue the reason I don't put glue on these is that I've been known to actually take things back apart and throw it away like I make jigs and then I unmake them and so that's why sometimes you see me take a board like this join it on something and you look and you'll see some pocket holes to nowhere on it that's what it's about I actually use this piece of wood somewhere else and I had pocket holes here then I decided took it apart put it back in the racket when I wanted to use this piece I had to drill these two for use and these two I can't do anything with but if it's a shop project it doesn't matter so I don't use glue with pocket hole screws you really don't need it unless you want that to stay together and you know you're never gonna take it apart a good example is like if you're making something for somebody else or a gift or something like that and you might want to always use glue in no circumstances is chances are you're not even gonna see that again much less take it apart so assume that you're not needed but glue it is optional when it's a pocket use it's a very strong joint and the glue doesn't add that much to it so you have to be careful of when to use glue and where those threads go so basically there's three things you have to keep in mind here today that I was talking about first and foremost the joint moving when you fasten it down keep in mind the angle of that screw and remember that that board wants to walk away from the side where the screw is it'll walk away the other direction if you don't put something on the back side to clamp it also keep in mind where these threads are going to reside once that joint is together if I'm putting this together like this that means that these threads are gonna go into face wood and that'll be fine that will work but if I take it and I put it together this way where this is angry now I'm gonna put the screw in and screw into dangreen not very good so keep that in mind keep in mind the angle the screws so you can figure out where it's gonna move to keep in mind where the screws threads are gonna be when you're done and then keep in mind if you have to shorten that screw when it's at an angle keep in mind whether or not that screws gonna come out the other side and if it's a thinner piece of wood just shorten your screws down at the end and you'll be fine so just wait just wait now she does in one month wait till I get this done she wants it now she'll wait anyway that's everything I hope you understood what I was talking about I hope you liked this video or you learn something here if you did please say so most importantly though please come back again because as you can probably guess I'm nowhere near done so thanks for stopping by and we'll see you again very soon

Channel: Russ Veinot

Views: 116,394

Keywords: woodshop, woodworking, otb thinker, pocket hole, pocket holes

Id: 8EateVFAW3c

Length: 20min 27sec (1227 seconds)

Published: Sat Oct 27 2018