Piers Morgan debates UK leader of Islamic Extremist group Hizb ut-Tahrir

my next guest has been a GP with the NHS for 25 years working as a mentor for recently qualified doctors at his surgery in Harrow Northwest London Dr wahed azif sha has another less wholesome identity as leader of an is Islam Islamic extremist Group which was recently caught on camera calling for Jihad at an anti-israel demonstration what is the solution to liberate people in the concentration camp palestin what is the solution Shader also known as Abdul wahed joins me now welcome T thank you for coming in today um you've come from your work as a NHS GP yeah um let me first just ask you your reaction to the clip we just played these are members of your organization and they're a loud chance of of jihad on the Streets of London do you think that's acceptable um that demon rtion was a very carefully planned demonstration where the placards the banners the speeches from the platform were calling for a military intervention of official armies of Muslim countries to rescue the people of Gaza with a situation of a civilian population of 2 million who are being massacred and slaughtered anywhere else in the world you would find it a completely straightforward thing for people calling for military intervention they weren't calling they weren't chanting we want military intervention they were chanting Jihad so my question for you is simply do you support the chanting of jihad the chanting of jihad by somebody there unscripted quite a few people there actually actually no it's about two people so you would you would condemn that of course I wouldn't condemn that you wouldn't no because Jihad in that context is to they as they understood it and they were chanting is for the official armies of Muslim countries to enter and intervene we're in a situation now appears where 1% of the population of Gaza has been killed in the space of two months 1% of the children of Gaza have been killed anywhere else in the world you yourself called for military intervention in Ukraine by NATO with probably less legal and moral cause than there is in Gaza when we stand oh absolutely because the do you think the When Vladimir Putin illegally invaded Ukraine the moral right of ukrainians to respond is somehow equivalent to the moral right of people in Palestine after October the 7th to do the same is that what you're saying I'm saying that the people of Ukraine have actually one of the most powerful armies in the region it doesn't change the fact they were illegally invaded does the people of Gaza have nobody helping them well they they have a mass they have a ter they have nobody helping hang on hang on they have a terrorist organization called a mass have nobody helping they got 30,000 terrorists who committed on October 7 they have lined up against them the murderous Israeli Defense Force they have lined up against them the United States who this week today in the Washington Post it was said that the white phosphorus that's being used by the IDF is supplied by them they have lined up against them the Britain and the EU they have lined up against them the Arab rulers in the region who carry on their trade cooperations listen as I've made clear doctor I I think a lot of the response from Israel particularly right now I would deem to be testing everyone's sense of what is proportionate right there's no question I do not subscribe to the view it's genocide that is the understatement of the Cent possibly but I think they have a I think they have a right to defend themselves against a terror group who have gone on record in the last two weeks as saying they want to do what happened oober again and again understand it's it's terrific it's horrific it's beyond it's beyond horrific because literally what we are watching what we are watching ing on our phones on our laptops on our TVs is is an extension of what's been happening since 194 let me play you your reaction all right understand let me play you after October the 7th a few days later you took part in a talk on YouTube and you said this Brave mujah they gave the enemy a punch on the nose all right and and it's a very welcome punch on the nose how can you categorize a terror attack in which which 1,200 mostly innocent civilian people were brutally attacked raped tortured beheaded and murdered how can you a British NHS doctor or NHS doctor in Britain how can you say that's a welcome punch on my nose will you let me answer fully yes I will be frank I'll be as concise as I can be but if you give me the courtesy of letting me answer fully okay I will defend the right of the Palestinians to to resist an occupation when you look at that it's not resistance that's terrorism when you look at what happened and the 7th of October as if that is the day that everything started I didn't say that you didn't say that but when people look at that do you think what happened that day was a terrorist attack when people look do do you know the the word terrorism has become so uh uh politicized actually not really the word the word ter deeply sympathetic to Palestinian civilian which I am by the way and I've expressed many times what you can't do is be weasly mou about what happened on October the 7 I that was Gres you're equivocating about it being a terror I'm I'm not equivocating and I will explain why okay the the the word terrorism by the way in India last last month we don't talk about India talk about the word terrorism in India people who supported the Australian cricket team have been arrested under terrorist offenses in the West Bank people who are r ring have been told if you reveal what happened in the prisons you will be arrested on terrorist do you think what happened October the 7th was a terror attack it's a resist it's a resistance not a terror attack appears if if and it's you're NHS GP if I'm asking you to let me finish if right our our Islamic standard in conflict in Warfare our Prophet peace be upon him sallallahu alaihi wasallam he said you can't kill children you can't kill women you can't kill the elderly you can't mutilate that if anybody did that if what do you mean if I say if because they literally broadcast it on their own streaming platforms and well I'll tell you what a lot of us saw broadcast it merrily to the world here's here's us doing these terrible things what you mean if what many of us saw on that day were videos coming out showing people saying we will not harm women we will not harm children do me a favor no no that's what doctor I'm saying that I'm saying that resistance is a right in Islam it's a right in international law it's it's even a right that Churchill said in his history of the english- speaking peoples that is he actually he actually wrote in that book it is a primary right of men to kill and die for the land they live in you literally just read me a description of what people who follow Islam are not supposed to do and Hamas did all of those things but your response is to say well hang on I've seen videos of them saying we don't want to do that stuff no I yes I find that pretty offensive doctor I find we all know they did it because they boasted to the world with their own videos what they were doing I find it amazing that respected journalists like yourself have seem to have suspended their critical fa I'm believing what Hamas wanted me to see well you're believing what you saw what Hamas themselves broadcast to the world because they wanted to take great Glee in what they've done let there's no there's no ambiguity about it I asked you to let me finish and I'm going to you got to answer questions I will answer the question let's agree on a principle if atrocities were committed right I will never condone them right I will say that so do you condemn what happened on October the 7th if atrocities are committed you know who's resp know they were who's responsible for it then ah so you don't condemn it okay who is responsible the Jews bought it on themselves actually I would say more more than that I would say the powers that believe that Israel should be a colony for themselves in the Middle East they are the ones responsible you know what I'm really struggling I've got to be honest with you I'm really struggling but a national a British National Health Service doctor of 25 years a man who's supposed to be seeing patients all day every day and putting them right is incapable of saying what happened when it was literally broadcast to the World by a terror group nor do you think they're terrorists you think it's resistance you seem to want to go anywh to justify you don't even believe what they showed us with their with their own technology and I'm I'm just curious do you think any of this is compatible with you being a doctor in the National Health Service you don't have to be a doctor do your patients know know that you believe you don't have to be a doctor to care for the lives of two million people in Gaza you don't have to be a doctor talk about whether your patients here in this country were Hamas are a prescribed to terrorist organization with they listening to this interview do these do these patients know your I have said to you do they know your views I don't talk to my patients about my view in a 10-minute confrontation do I nobody does that it's just a foolish question isn't it that's a foolish question yeah nobody talks to use a different name for I use my name well you don't you have two names one the leader of the group Abdul wahed is a name that family friends and other people call me actually even some people that's not the name you use at work even some people at work and ABD and sha is my legal name which people use in other forums that's not a very unusual thing in May 2023 I have I'm going to ask you another question you did not give me the courtesy you know why because your answers were so outrageous you censor that's your answer no no no no I don't censor the person doing the censoring is you you are who wants me to try and understand and believe that what hamash sodas boasted about with their own technology broadcasting into the world was not what we saw you that's called censorship well that is actually the purest personification of censoring the truth I've ever encountered when you bring Mark reg onto the and you you question him lightweight questioning all be lightweight questioning about the atrocities that happen you think I give I actually ask difficult question actually you don't you don't ask difficult questions yeah you completely accept you listen sit there and listen to the most ridiculous explanations unlike you and your answers you mean well you didn't give me the chance to say that no I've heard your answers no you didn't oh I have I have you didn't you don't well let okay let's do a little quick telling you're telling the answer let's do a little quick far recap do you think Hamas terror group I believe it's a resistance organization do you think what they did in October the 7th was a terror attack I believe that if civilians got killed on that day it is it is apping it is aing you're a doctor man is apping you're a doctor inan also believe 1200 people got mass and 1% of the population I can share your concerns about what's happened you no you don't oh no I do oh no I do 16 years 16 can believe a doctor is saying the word if people got victims of atrocity if if October the 7th how can you say that so what you tell me this what is a proportionate response to 16 years living in a cage what is a proportion not a terror attack what is not a terror attack if they if they just attacked IDF I've asked many times what is proportion accept that so you're saying just just to attack the IDF would have been acceptable I personally do not I'm answering let me answer your question I'm going to say this we might be able to agree I think the strategy at the moment let me answer the question let me answer the question let me answer the question if they had military targets my view of what they're doing is I don't think it's going to work I don't think the IDF is going to eradicate Hamas and if that is the mission statement and in the process they kill tens of thousands of innocent men women and children if they do that I think they will radicalize an entire new generation and make it worse that's my honest view of what I'm but let me come back that's why that's why when we talk about a military intervention actually what we want doctor what happened October 7 wasn't a military intervention a terror attack what we want as a military you don't even think it happened do you what we want is a military intervention from Muslim armies to re rescue a beleaguered people and replace an people have to be given the same human rights do me respect they have to be given no no I will interrupt you it's not your show you don't just talk forever right what's the point of asking I'm going to tell you what I think about the Palestinian plight which I've talked about many times you've obviously missed it I think they should be given the same human rights as everybody else and particular the same rights of Israelis I think it's been a 75 year conflict with conflict a conflict where people have been driven out of their homes 750,000 people in the wrong that was wrong encroaching on the West Bank more and more and more that was wrong so have been all the wars launched against Israel been wrong all of it is wrong right the history shows this is a conflict riddled with wrongs on both sides oer no it didn't I never said it did well you seem to you don't even think it happened whole framing of your debate here you don't even think it happened I do think it happened oh you did it didn't happen 1200 people were massacred were they I think 1200 people were killed were they massacred yeah they were killed right by terrorists they were killed by people who were resisting an occupation and they're Terror yeah well that's your view it is my view by the way it's a view of any any person who is is not Israeli or Palestinian right anyone I disagree with that I disagree with that one man have you not heard the one man's terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter have you never heard that have you never heard that let me just play I want to just read you this in May 2023 lukar MIM who's a prominent member of your organization called for an end to the secular order so that quotes the UK will no longer be able to pump its liberal filth its LGBT filth it's feminist filth Into the Heart of the Muslim world do you agree with him I agree that the West is pumping secular democracy into the Muslim world and I LGBT fil I agree that actually what we want to see in the Muslim world is a system with an accountable government right an elected leader upholding Family Values right we want to see an economic system where wealth is circulated do you believe in equal rights for gaping people I believe I believe that actually the the Islamic standard of law should be the standard of law in the country in the obviously that's the standard I believe in and I believe just to clarify what is your view of homosexuality I believe homosexuality is a sin don't sin wrong so when gay people come to your your practice do you treat them oh of course why because I treat all my patients with kindness and without you tell them you think what they do is a sin what an absurd thing to say why why wouldn't you be why I say that why would I say that because they don't why don't you try going back to your surgery tomorrow come why don't you go to your surgery tomorrow and say before we go any further to your patients I want you to know what I think I think that I agree with a guy who said the this country is full of LGBT filth feminist fil I don't think Hamas are a terror group I don't think what they did on October the 7th was a terror attack and by the way do you want me now to treat you do you want do you understand what I don't understand any of that professional Integrity is you understand you think that's professional Integrity no I think professional Integrity is treating the people I treat with respect and with kind Fair well they know I do do they oh yeah do they yeah do they know you think they're filth I didn't say that they're fil you agreed with what he said I didn't agree with what he said you said I agree no I agree I pay the T back in your I agree with the fact that the Muslim World should have the Islamic system yeah I didn't say I agree with I don't use words you want full Sharia law for this country for this country I'm working for our group works for Islam the restoration of Islam in the Muslim World about here we work we work to uphold Islam values in our personal life and in the Muslim Community do you want law here or no I would love you know what youd love it no I tell you what that in this last two months one of the strangest things has been where people here have been looking at the people in Gaza and they've been going and looking and reading the Quran and they've been looking at it and I'd invite you and your audience to do that would do that and they you would like law here and they are not convinced by these NE neocon neocon and caricatures of Islam are they actually I don't think people all I've done is ask you straightforward question you've revealed your beliefs in the answers yeah you have I I I you may not even realize what you've done but you have I believe in Islamic law and I don't believe in the caricature that you try and present of Islamic La would you like Sharia law in this country I would love to see I would love to see you want Sharia law in this country I don't want Sharia law in this country well that's your wish but you would yeah but I no I I would I believe it's the I believe it's the best system but I'm not work I'm not working would you like it in this country I would I'm not working I believe in Islamic you know the or no you know the Islamic civilization was the only civilization quick to answer everything else yes or no the Islamic civilization was the only civilization that brought peace to the Middle East for Muslims Jews and Christians I would love to see that system there wouldn't you like to see a system who pays who pays your salary wouldn't you like to see a system where Muslims Jews and Christians would live Side by live under sha law I'm it's not talking about this I'm talking about Middle East no but you suggested you wanted it to be under sha law here you suest do you or not you you do you or not what's what's funny what's funny is your approach of question why just answer the question because you know why it's funny yes or no you either do or you don't right I ask a question the answer is yes or no why can't you say yes or no I believe in the Islamic system would you like Sharia law in this country I would love yes or no I would love to see you want no no answer the question never mind what I want what do you want I want to see is the Islamic system really would you like Sharia law in this country last time I'm going to ask if Sharia law if Sharia law if Sharia law means upholding Family Values means looking after the poor means no gays no feminist are women who get above themselves that's your caricature no that's I know what Shia law wants why so why does so many women become Muslim these days why want Beed is that what you're going to tell me no no why why does so many they want to be oppressed women in the world become Muslim these days you tell me well I don't you better ask why don't you tell me what you think they they seem to find it something that attracts them Islam really yeah okay many many many women in the west become Muslim and for some reason they seem to like the fact that it's you work with women doctors yes I do how how do they feel about your views on this I keep a very strict professional line between my they know where your views are when they watch this they're they're going to be surprised some of them will know some of them will not know some of them will know some of them will not know okay doctor thank you for coming in I appreciate it um you've been enlightening with your responses you may not realize quite how enlightening but you might find out when you see the reaction but I appreciate you coming in thank you you're welcome

Channel: Sky News Australia

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Length: 19min 38sec (1178 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 12 2023