Phil Donahue (2010) on Jehovah's Witnesses, Gobitas (1940) & Barnette (1943)

you're 16 years old you walk by a kingdom Paul today we're going to walk by a kingdom call actually go into one what was your reaction as a Catholic thinking about Jehovah's with us I used to have a girlfriend who lived probably a couple miles from my house so I walked over there as often as I could and as I walked to her home on Rocky River Drive in Cleveland Ohio I would pass a building and it said Kingdom Hall on it and I knew Jehovah and it was all but what I remember most vividly was my feeling about who were these people oh I remember I'm not only Catholic I mean I'm 16 I'm a member of the one true church I have a pope who can't make mistakes on matters of faith and morals um I'm not only Catholic I'm Irish Catholic now every Cardinal and Bishop at least in my limited 16 year old vision was Irish Cushing I mean we had they were everywhere Archbishop Hoban Cleveland confirmed me so here you know I was so grateful that I'm metallic and not one of these weird people in this what goes on in their googly moogly whoo what you know that's this is what and I as the more I thought about it you know if I had been politically conscious which I hardly was at age 16 I bet I'd have thrown a stone at those people I'm the proctor but you know if you you don't understand the problem if you don't at least confront your own you can't rise above this and say oh how could people do that the nation was coming down on these people I mean I have a mental picture of the little William gobitis third-grade holding on to the pocket of his britches the teacher tried to pull his arm I just can't imagine being in the third grade and being the only kid who will salute the flag and how how pray these little kids were and how irreverent and obedient they were to their parents and we we beat up those adults as they came into town to solicit we hated these people they knocked on the door in the middle of the morning of Sunday when you're in your bathrobe and trying to read the paper and have a cup of coffee the knock on the door drove people crazy and you know the more you look at this you can see we're at war Americans are dying in the Pacific European theater and these little you know what was a wooden salute the flag you cannot overstate the contempt the loathing that we had for those people and when the supremes said you got a salute and expelled kids who wouldn't over a thousand injuries made him drink castor oil and Wheeling West Virginia put a rope around their neck marched him around the indignities in the brutality the cops would take part in some of these beatings and The Supremes took it back three years later and there's so many stories here they you know okay you don't have to salute second and it was Jackson who made that wonderful flourish essentially he said as you know and I just get I get goose bumps of this if there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation it is that no official high or petty can prescribe what shall be Orthodox in religion nationalism politics or any other matters of opinion nor may he force to confess by word or act a belief therein you can't force an American to believe anything you can't force an American to believe in America or the United States Constitution which grants the right not to believe in anything you know it's it's it's very it's fascinating to me it took us so long to encode this and it was Jackson speaking for the majority that took two decisions and they grabbed this little kid and they went like this to the nation stop right there and they essentially Robert Jackson looked over that bench and he looked at those kids and he said you this is what the decision means you obey your parents I mean what's American to you this is just one reason why I'm a proud American and what and why I respect the witnesses not only for their courage but what they did for all of us can force a person the Soviet Union said you can't believe in God imagine how do you Fortin force that it's like passing a law so you can't think about a pink elephant there's no way to us is absurd but it's what religion and faith and messianic attitude and evangelism can do to you and I think about the school you know the the van that they if they all got in to go to do homeschooling not having any money because the of the boycott and hanging onto the fame you know I got I wonder how many Catholics Episcopalians you know I mean there are stories of kids being beaten in the classroom little kids in elementary school now salute beat them again you salute that flag you kids stood there okay what's courage to you what is a moor what is moral courage and what do we expect of kids that age oh well kids who don't a bet we throw them in a boarding school or some kind of halfway lockup to me and these kids dissented and they did so because their parents have instructed them but to offer a salute or some kind of homage to a flag was against their religion you can as a witness you can only offer allegiance to the god king Jehovah all else our false icons and that's their faith and that's their right you can worship a pet rock if you want to and no official high or petty can tell you that this isn't Orthodox Robert Jackson

Channel: RobertHJacksonCenter

Views: 309,391

Keywords: Phil Donahue, Lillian Gobitis, Robert H. Jackson, Barnette, Gobitis, Jehovah's Witnesses, flag salute, Supreme Court, Phil, Donahue, interview, Lillian Gobitas Klose, School District, Board of Education, West Virginia State Board Of Education V. Barnette, Minersville School District V. Gobitis, Robert H. Jackson Center, Landmark, Court, Case

Id: UDzcspnPRh0

Length: 8min 46sec (526 seconds)

Published: Sun Aug 12 2012