Peter Walsh: The Power of Clutter and its hold on us | E270 #declutteryourlife #declutteringtips

for over 20 years Peter Walsh has been working internationally helping clients declutter and organize their homes Peter believes that clutter is anything that stands the way of people living their best lives and we of course could not agree more Peter has always managed to encourage people to declutter and organize using the perfect balance of empathy and understanding with some straight talking tough love you probably know Peter from his shows in America clean sweep the Oprah Winfrey Show and The Rachel Ray Show and of course his Australian TV shows where the next season is coming out in early 2024 he's also a New York Times bestselling author and has produced seven decluttering books to say we are excited to have him on the podcast today is an absolute understatement so let's dig in to the power of clutter and the hold that it has upon [Music] us [Music] you're listening to the declutter Hub podcast bringing you tried and tested noons tips and advice from the leading experts in decluttering and organizing your home now here's your host Leslie [Music] Spelman hello and welcome listeners I'm Leslie we're delighted you're here to join us as part of your decluttering journey so whether you're brand new today or have been listening in for ages we want to say thank you so much for being here it means so much to ingred and I that you turn up every week to listen to and support us while we talk all things decluttering and organizing we'd love to help more people with their quest for a clutter-free home and our podcast is a fantastic way for people to be inspired to take action we have a favor to ask if you like what you hear be sure to hit the follow subscribe or like button on your podcast player share us with your friends or share your thoughts on the podcast by leaving a review Peter Walsh very excited to have you here today we're real fangirling ingred is not here she's absolutely devastated that she's not here and we couldn't quite believe when we asked you to come on the podcast that you would come on to the Deo podcast I we're so excited you're huge it's absolutely my pleasure it's absolutely my pleasure to be here thank you so much for inviting me a thank you so before we came on to the podcast you were like I can't believe you're actually in my world well first things first we've got loads and loads of Australian and New Zealand people in our communities and they're always talking about you they talk about your TV shows they talk about everything else and we all feel a bit devastated because here in England we can't really get them I'm I'm right in thinking a lot of your Australian programs that you're on at the moment we can't get them here and they can't get them in in North America right no it's interesting um I've just come back from from Australia actually I'm just back in the United States I live half my time in Australia and half my time in in the United States I've just come back from shooting my fourth season of my series Space Invaders which is incredibly successful in Australia and while it has been released in a few areas in Europe and it has been released in in limited release in Canada embarrassingly in in areas in frenchspeaking Canada under the title manaja yes exactly it hasn't had broad release outside of Australia although it is released in New Zealand under the name Space Invaders so I'm not quite sure why that is it's beyond my pay grade to um to control release of the series um but it has gotten released in areas as I say in in limited release in Europe but but you I'm hoping it gets broader release throughout the world it's it's now we've made 40 episodes so far and um it's it's one of the most popular uh shows of its kind in Australia and I'm very very proud of it and I want to talk about that a little bit later and unpack the whole TV show um situation a little bit later in the podcast but for now I think the reason why ingred and I just you know you are the sort of Guru I'm not going to start being sick of antic and stuff but you you've done a lot of work You' done a lot of TV shows so it's not really about that side of it it's more about the what you actually your Mantra when it comes to decluttering you know because it's so aligned to the way that we teach and so um we've probably stolen loads of your lines to be fair of without knowing about it but let's go dive straight in So at the declot Hub we are we call ourselves emotions Le decluttering so we're very much it's not about the stuff it's about the emotions that sit behind that stuff and unpacking it and so I'm sure we're going to have a great conversation today talking a little bit more about what we talk about every week on the podcast so let's dive straight in why do you think clutter has such a huge hold on us well I I first started working in this area more than 20 years ago um and when I started on TV in the United States I was one of the first the show I first did in the United States was called clean sweep right and we started it was one of the very first television programs to present decluttering I think on a broad scale um and it was one of the very first shows and it has I think continued the work that I've done um including the work that parallels the work that you've done has really focused not so much on the stuff but on the reasons why people struggle with their stuff and I think it's because we're presented daily with a real conundrum that we're taught um or led to believe that if we just acquire if we just buy the right stuff we can acquire the life that we want and that stuff brings happiness that's what we that's what we're led to believe every day and I think it's best summarized in what I call the product and the promise that we go out all the time and we buy products um but what we're actually chasing is the promise um for example we buy an exercise machine but what we're really chasing is the promise that if we buy this exercise machine somehow magically we will become fitter that if we buy this this Lounge sweet if we buy this set of of of kitchen wear somehow we'll have a more beautiful home somehow we'll become better Cooks somehow if we buy this set of cookwar let's expand on that that somehow our family will gather around for for a a better a better meal and somehow with that you know it will create this this magical family moment if we buy these skinny jeans somehow our butts will become magically smaller if we buy this makeup somehow we'll look more beautiful so we buy the product but what we're chasing is the promise that advertising and marketing presents with it and when I go into homes all the time the home is full of these products that ends up being the Clutter but what really is in the home is all of these unfulfilled promises which is really this sad this unhappiness um and so that's one aspect of it but then the other aspect is that we attach so much to the stuff in our homes that everything in our homes is there because we choose to have it there either we have physically brought it into our homes or we have permitted it to be there and so when we summarize it the stuff in our homes exists of two main types it's either what I call memory clutter and that's the stuff that reminds us of an important person or achievement or event from our past and the fear is if we let it go we will lose that memory or we'll dishonor the person who gave it to us or it's what I call I might need it one day clutter and we hold on to it because it represents um a whole lot of imagined futures or dreams that we have and to let it go is to let go of those dreams and so stuff has power and it's not about the stuff but it's about the power of that stuff and so when we look when you or I when I look at the things in my home I see that power I see that control but when you look at the things in my home you just see the stuff and so in talking to someone else in our home we have to understand that that the stuff we're looking at is not actually the stuff it's never about the stuff it's about the power of the stuff and I think that's the difficulty in helping people let go of their stuff it's always about something other than the stuff usually about trauma loss abuse grief it's about those things and as it comes down to it just comes down to you know stuff has power and you have to you have to unravel the power of the stuff before you can really deal with the stuff itself you definitely do and you know the kind of product versus promise I love the way that you frame that we talk a lot about aspirational clutter and you know same thing right and so but it's unraveling that and then it goes deeper then because then you feel guilty about having in principle failed to live up to that desire or that aspiration and so it's wrapped up in other emotions as well and then there's the money and then we feel guilt and then we worry we you know so it's just all wrapped up but I mean what we find is you know what we found over the years teaching is that this is news to people and so when you start to unravel it with you know people like you say just go for years and years and years with the stuff carrying on buying it love it until it gets too much until it becomes too overwhelming then they take a step back and they like what how do I fix this but then when you start to unravel it and and sort of frame it in that in the idea about emotions not stuff the light bulbs go on Time After Time After Time and to me that's the starting point is explaining that kind of thing to people so those light bulbs can go on and people can start to then make changes but making those changes is tricky as well so but I think the starting point has to be understanding as you say the hold that this stuff has got on us and power of the stuff right it's interesting you say that because understanding this is not a New Concept um and let me give you a very simple example I'm I'm not a religious person at all like you know not not in the list and yet it's only in recent times that I've come to understand the word covet and you know it's a word that appears twice in in the Ten Commandments Thou shalt not cover thy neighbor's Goods Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife and um you know I was raised Catholic and you know the Sisters of St Joseph you know beat the Ten Commandments into me pretty strongly and I never really understood that term but in in this work I've come to understand the term very strongly and that term goes back you know thousands and thousands of years to the judeo-christian tradition and covet is a very powerful word and covet means to to to long for to to to have a strong wish for and thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's Goods is a very powerful ter term because I've come to learn that comparison is the death of happiness and I think that's one of the problems also that people need to understand and it's compounded Now by social media and I think that's part of the thing that we're caught into particularly with advertising and marketing that we're constantly placed in a position of comparing ourselves to others of coverting what others have that if only we had what others have we would be happier so we're constantly taught to covet we're placed in a position of coveting what others have and social media is totally about coveting what others have we're to constantly put into position of of seeing others in a better place with better clothes having a better holiday being better made up having a better time and it's all fake there's nothing in social media that is real nothing and there's nothing social about it it's all artificial and yet that is what we're all now taught to long for and that is part of the problem that we have to we as I think as professional organizers we we're fighting against that that people are constantly coveting what others have and as I say comparison is the death of happiness and and that's part of of of the Nexus that we have to break that that people are comparing what they have and in making that comparison we are we constantly fall short and in Falling short against something that is not real we are constant L unhappy and that's why there's this Universal feeling of of of not being good enough of feeling unhappy the stuff that we have never meets this false standard and people are never happy people want more they want the next thing and this ties into this advertising and marketing concept that if you just buy the right thing if you just buy that thing that you're coveting you you can acquire the life that you want and so it's this endless grind to get to the next thing so you fill your house with these products you chase this promise you can never get there you con get there and of course what we've also got is we've got a clash you know a lot of the people a lot of people in our world are a little bit towards the the older side of things and so then you've got this clash between the kind of make do am mend era that we have and so don't let anything go because it will always be good and all that it's always got a use and then you've got this consumerism side of it that kind of came in in the 90s 80s 90s really and then you've got this clash and that's where these clutter problems really come to the for isn't it but it's much worse than that it's now it's now the whole fast fashioned thing it's now this this is now it's now a planetary problem where there's this whole production of fast fashion it's now this whole this whole production of plastics that that are now destroying the planet that we all now including professional organizers now buy into you know buying Plastic Products to to store stuff in our homes we all buy into this each of us now every person on the planet now is consuming every two weeks this this amount of plastic a credit card size amount of microplastics you and I are consuming this this amount of microplastics into our body every two weeks wow every two weeks and the amount of plastics are projected to increase threefold over the next 20 years plus and so and yet and and and fast fashion these clothes you know uh the the clothes that are being produced and then worn for 3 months and then dumped fast fashion they destroying East Africa they're all being sent on mass to East Africa and are being dumped in the oceans like it's it's the production the mass production of stuff of clothes the plastic toys that people are buying for their kids it's all this stuff that is being mass produced on the planet that is part of the problem as well it's it's not just it's not just a stuff problem in our homes it's it's a planetary problem that all of us are buying into um you do you think then you know it's interesting so do do you think and I definitely see that massive rise it's still going of course it is do you see it decreasing with people's awareness of sustainability no I think we're doomed no I have a very dismal view of it I think we've screwed with you know I mean I'll be blunt I think we've screwed with the planet long enough and I think this planet's going to screw us back that's my view right right I mean look around you know all the signs are against us and um you know I know we're supposed to be harbringer of of of good news you know I think the signs are all against us that's my view um you know I I just you've had enough of consumerism for sure I think it's yeah I think you're I think you're right it's so hard to see but you kind of cling on to the idea and certainly in the professional organizing world you know we have to be so mindful of recycling but maybe it's gone too far and that's just kind of papering over the cracks a little bit and um you know we're not quite going to get there I I don't know it's it's too hard to to sort of think about really isn't it because it's just I think I think it's now about it's not about what's in our homes anymore it's now about stopping stuff at the door I think that so that somehow you know we have to stop stuff at the door it has to be about you know single use Plastics it has to stop but I don't see how I just don't see how that's going to happen you know even you know we have third world countries you know in First World countries you know we've been happy enough to use fossil fuels we've been happy enough to use fossil fuels to get where we are and now you know we're happy enough to say well you know you know they they have to find some other way to to develop um and yet we've been happy enough to use fossil fuels to get where we are you know it's a much more complicated question than perhaps you know anyone's prepared to discuss I mean I'm off on a tangent at the moment no it's all right but no it's interesting to hear you because I think that you know you're at The Cutting Edge have been at The Cutting Edge of decluttering and consumerism for so long it's interesting to hear your opinion on that I think I'm a little bit half full and I'm like oh we're doing our bit and trying to kind of brain it in and talking about it and making sure that people are educated on these things and that it's very much seen as part of the decluttering process you know we see donation recycling very much in as part of the process and we you know kind of encourage people to do that and people are doing that themselves sometimes to the point that it's a barrier to people getting the job done as well I see that as well that there sort of the the desire to keep things out of landfill or to find the absolute perfect donation spot for something sometimes holds people back a little bit as well and we like it's still landfill if it's sitting in your kind of house really you know what I mean it's just in a different place on the planet really um so I mean what do you think of that when people what do you think of the sort of donation side of things do you feel that people should go to the nth degree to try and find the right place to donate I think in theory it's a it's a wonderful thing that people say that but I think more often than not it's an excuse you know I I I think people saying you know I can't let it go because I don't want something to go to landfill more often than not I see people use that as an excuse not to let things go to be perfectly blunt right you know um and when pushed when push comes to shove it's more about them simply not wanting to let things go you know because when it does come down to it you can find places to donate pretty much everything yeah um you know I mean up to the 90 you know the 95 percentile you can find places to donate pretty much everything and there are there are uh companies that will come and collect stuff and there are companies that I work with uh both here in the United States in North America and in Australia who make a you know make a policy of recycling you know up to the 95th percentile uh of of stuff that they come and collect but even so you know you know I'm not you know the whole recycling thing the truth is that most of that is is fical you know recycling largely is FAL that you know that you know if if you look into that you know when it comes down to it most of the stuff that we think is being recycled simply is not um you know it's a Panacea it makes us all feel a lot better but the truth is most of the stuff that we put into our recycling bin simply is not recycled yeah um you know and it comes back to Plastics yeah you know plastic is poison and that's the truth of it and it can't be it's not biodegradable and you know it ends up breaking down into microplastics and microplastics are moving back into the ecosystem and moving back into our bodies and back into our oceans and the Pacific guia where there's a massive amount of plastic spinning around you know half the size of Texas out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean you know and as I say a credit card size amount of plastic you know spinning around in our body every two weeks I mean you know and yet we have no idea what that's doing to our own microsystem and and yet we continue to produce plastic because it's an easy you know it's an easy fix for packaging you know so we're not serious we're just not serious and yet you and I will go out today and buy you know a plastic squirt bottle of detergent because it's easy to buy and it's the easiest it's the easiest thing to put in our house I mean that's the truth that's the truth and do you would you buy into the idea that if everybody does a tiny little bit that that's going to help generally or do you just think it's just gone too far it's a waste of time okay it's like banning plastic shopping bags it's a waste of time because 75% of the problem is caused by large industry so you know and so we get dismal about it I mean certainly it makes you know it makes some little difference but it's a much bigger problem than the individual is it's it's it's a much bigger problem than that and so you know unless there's unless there's change on on a huge scale and you know nothing's going to change yeah nothing that we're going to fix on this podcast talking about declutter no yeah and so you know but you know you know unless there isn't it it's it's it's a too big of a topic for me to uh the thing is you know but each of us but each of us do have a choice and each of us can make a change by consuming less and encouraging others that we know to consume less but that doesn't mean that you know coming this Christmas we won't end up all buying yeah too many toys and too much stuff you know because that's what we do because we're all taught I mean we all buy into this concept that more is better yeah we all buy into this willingly and knowingly subconsciously that if you love someone you buy something for them I mean we all buy into this me and you included yeah absolutely if it's you know I mean look look at our look at our celebrations that we have you know we have all these celebrations and every single celebration whether it's a wedding whether it's Hanukkah whether it's Christmas whether it's graduation whether it's a baptism no matter what it is they all come with gift giving and yet there's not one single event in the calendar year that's marked with taking something out of our home yeah every single event is marked with giving something but not one single event is marked with taking something out of our home we like we'd like it to be of course but see this and we all buy into this yeah and so of course our homes are full of stuff because every important event is marked with gift giving and you know I'm not I'm not criticizing that it's simply the State of Affairs that's that's the way that's the way our culture is marked by gift giving and so and we all buy into that that that love is characterized our our affection for people is characterized by giving something and there's something wrong with you if you don't do that and so you know it's the way our society has been constructed you know it's it's a it needs a whole societal shift to to turn that around and I I just it's much bigger than than you I you know it's it may start small but you know you said the light bulb has to go on and that that that has to happen for everyone but you know I mean look at the bookshelf behind me or look at the bookshelf behind you I mean you know we all you know it's for everyone it's about decoration yeah it's not about pragmatism it's about it's about look it's about emotion it's about decoration I mean you know you know on my bookshelf how many of these books do I actually read on your bookshelf how much of that stuff do you actually need or use you know we're all part we're all part of this none of us stands apart from this and have you ever thought then you know talking about that have you ever ever thought of going down a minimalist route no never I think I I don't no because because we're not monks you know I mean you know Joshua Becker is a great proponent of this you know he's perhaps one of the leaders in this and I know Joshua very well you know he's a lovely guy um you know you know it's it's not you know there are there are big names you know across this broad area you know Marie condo is another name in this area his philosophy you know I you know I don't follow at all either um but you know to stick the minimalism thing it it's not something I could follow you know I'm not you know people say to me oh you know your house must be amazing you know have so little there you know all your clothes must be colorcoded not in a million years you know I'm you know I'm not the crazy organizing guy you know it's just not the way I would choose to live my life you know I you there are areas in my house that are totally disorganized you know you know my garage where you know I do a ton of different projects you know It's relatively organized but it's you know it's not you know everything's not labeled you know you know you some things are labeled some things are not but this minimalism thing is not the way I choose to live my life you know it's just I I don't have a ton of stuff my partner and I don't have a ton of stuff we probably have more of some things you know we have probably more more I was actually looking I just got back a couple of days ago from Australia and just last night I was looking in a cupboard in the garage we probably have more plates and glasses because we love to entertain than we probably should have but it's like I'm okay with that because on the occasion where we might you know have a dinner party for 20 30 people we use those so you know um you know we have the stuff we need for the kind of life we live absolutely and that's the most important thing yeah so let's pop to a break and let's come back in a moment and let's try and unpack a few more emotions related to clutter okay welcome back from the break we're talking to the lovely Peter Walsh and we're talking about all things about consumerism Plastics we're talking about minimalism and whether that's a good thing we've touched on Marie condo we may come back to her later but I want to just delve back into the emotional side of clutter that you talked so well about because you found this great balance Peter of of a bit of tough love interpers with a nice empathetic T and that seems what has made you you right so you're not scared to say tough things to people we are so we're kind of generally in the declutter Hub you know we are you're going on a journey be kind to yourself but then sometimes when we see that people are not making the progress that they need we'll kind of fly in there with a little bit of tough talking on on occasion this is all online right which is different as well working oneto one with people but What What In your experience has been the toughest emotions related to clutter to cracks so like is it guilt is it worry is it aspirational clutter sentimental clutter I know it's hard and it's different for everybody but which do you think is the most difficult one to crack a great question I I found in dealing with people that that there there can be two there can be two ways of going into working with people that um that you have to you have two choices when you step into another person's space when you step into a space working with someone you have a choice and not just you or me but anyone in dealing with with with another person and their stuff you can choose to judge someone and the moment you choose to judge someone and it's the easiest response you put a barrier between yourself and that person um and in judging someone what you're saying to them is I am separate from you I I'm different from you and in some ways I'm better than you that I don't suffer from from whatever it is you suffer from or you can choose to be empathetic and in choosing to be empathetic to show empathy you place yourself in the same Circle as that person and I found that if you show empathy you can say pretty much anything you want to that person and that's what that's perhaps been one of the most amazing things I've discovered over the years that in not judging I found that I can say pretty much anything to the person I'm working with and so the toughest thing the strongest thing that I bring to a discussion with the people I've work with I only bring two things I keep saying this the two things that I bring in my work working with other people are a helping hand and a mirror and if another person if the person I'm working with isn't ready or isn't prepared to do the work there is nothing that I can do yeah that um you know they have to be I I can't change another person I just you know I can't change someone else you have to want to make those changes yourself and so my job is simply to help them any way I can and to hold up a mirror to them and reflect back to them what I see and it was my partner who actually said this to me once and I think it was one of the greatest insights I've ever had that I often my role is often to give people permission that they won't give themselves which I think was a really great Insight on his part that people often won't give themselves permission to let go of something or to to accept the fact that they have been hurt by someone or that something that they've held on to was aspirational and that that aspiration is no longer real or valid in their life and so that they have permission to let that go but they could never give themselves that permission but by me saying to them it's okay now to let that go and as I said yeah working with a professional organizer either oneto one or online is gives people that empowerment I think and so you you have it yeah we have people you know we've definitely SE on a onetoone basis where people are like you're stood next to me and I've been looking at this thing for three years but just because you're here exactly able to make that decision so I in a context of oneto one we also see it in our Q&A it's every we have a membership and every two weeks with us for questions and ask us more deeper questions about their individual circumstances and quite often we'll get a question and I know that they've answered it and they know the answer to that themselves just need us to go it's okay and then they go that's it Leslie and in said it was okay off it goes it's just like so people know it themselves but just need to like push through that final you're saying exactly the same thing I'm saying you give them permission that they won't or can't or unable are unable to give themselves and it's I don't know it's one of the it's one of the wonderful mysteries of what we do absolutely being that being an empath an empathy is in there that you're saying to them I'm in this with you and I understand this with you I'm not judging you see and that's the whole if you were judging them you're apart from them but if you're in this with them you can say I understand I'm with you it's okay let it go yeah and they can and so I don't know the answer to your original question but I know that being there with someone and holding their hand and giving them permission that they can't give themselves is a really magical moment yeah exactly I think it's um the the non-judgment side of it is so critical and when people I've got a team of organizers that go out and work around the northwest of England and you know the skills that I'm looking for are coming from a background of empathy care understanding mental health you know probation work the fact whether or not they can fold the Paran nickers is irrelevant to me because that can be learned it can always be learned but to be able to interact onetoone with somebody who's got nothing and is you know well they have got stuff because they got loads of stuff in the house but you know feel like they've got absolutely nothing need to cling onto everything or working with a multi-millionaire the next day who's just got an excess of stuff just because they could and being able to interact with those people in exactly the same way and bring something and have breakthroughs that's the skill of a professional organizer and that's but see that that's because they've been surrounded by people their husband their wife their neighbors you know their parents who who every time they've stepped into their Circle have judged them oh you know you're lazy you're a slob you know you're disgusting you have too much all this room's filthy you know because every interaction they've had has been an interaction of judgment and suddenly they have someone who's not judging but who brings a whole different sense to that moment a sense of empathy and so the whole interaction is very different and so that's that's my point that anyone can be empathetic but it's much more difficult judging is easy judging is is the easiest thing because as I say it takes us out of the situation and places as on high anyone can judge I know being empathetic is much more difficult well Peter I feel like we're only just getting started with this conversation I'd love to come back and talk some more so we've got so much to talk about that we're g there's going to be a part two to this podcast so thank you for part one do follow for part two which will be coming in a few weeks time and we'll see you in a [Music] moment thanks so much for listening into the declutter Hub podcast don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode and we'll see you next [Music] week

Channel: The Declutter Hub

Views: 32,715

Keywords: #declutter #decluttering #organisation #organise #declutterhub

Id: ZP3Yu_-SgJQ

Length: 37min 21sec (2241 seconds)

Published: Fri Dec 01 2023