People Who Make Ministry Difficult

our speaker today is dr. Chuck Swindoll he serves as our Chancellor here at DTS and prior to becoming Chancellor he served as the fourth president of our seminary he has devoted his life to the accurate practical teaching and application of God's Word and His grace a pastor at heart Chuck has served a senior pastor to congregations in Texas Massachusetts in California since 1998 he has served as the founder and senior pastor teacher Stonebriar Community Church in Frisco Texas dr. swindle is the author of more than 90 books and he is the featured Bible teacher on the popular radio program insight for living which is aired nearly 2,000 times daily worldwide he and his wife sent to think about that event he and his wife Cynthia reside here in the Metroplex and love to spend much of their time with their four grown children 10 grandchildren and six great-grandchildren help me in welcoming to our pulpit today dr. Charles window [Music] thank you always great to be with you and it's always a mystery that I have to wrestle through when it comes to choosing what to talk on because you've heard everything from everybody and so no matter what subject you you you've heard it from someone and you've heard it certainly from someone better than I could say it but here I am to give it a try what I try to do when I'm here is as they try to because time alone will tell if that's true I try to talk on things that cover two bases first of all they are interesting if it isn't interesting it's not your fault it's mine so I I like to make it interesting and keep it interesting and if it isn't you're free to leave if you're bored honestly you're if you're bored don't go to sleep leave and go study you know but I want to keep it interesting second I want to bring things that I never heard when I was at seminary the things I share truly are things that were never addressed it wasn't that someone deliberately wanted to keep the students in the dark it's just they weren't the kind of things that were talked about back when I was a student we got great truth but we rarely got information that we could we could pack up and take with us and use in the practical side of the ministry that's what I have in mind and so my talks are invariably along the practical side plus I'm not that bright and so I don't try to get into areas that make the faculty frowned and based frowning I'm the guy that wants to leave and study with you so I I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do that I'm gonna talk about things that maybe not even they have addressed and no doubt should in light of the times in which we live and there are tough times they are tough they're tougher than when I left seminary and they were tough then but they're tougher now I have a grandson in law who just got on the police force in little Texas towns south of year we had lunch with him along with we had altogether 11 of our family because one of them went through an adoption recently and we all celebrated so he came up from his wife's a student at Texas A&M and so they came up from College Station to be with us he's on the police force at Brenham and I said you know it's hard for me to imagine a drug problem in Brenham and he laughed out loud he looked at me like I was from another planet he said there are drug problems everywhere fact you can't name a problem that isn't in the little town of Brenna which again is an awakening for me at this age I should know that but I sometime think some of these little places are sort of sheltered there is no sheltered place you will not go to a place where you will be free of the tentacles of depravity which has a big part to do with what I want to want to talk about the Living Bible renders Jobe 14:1 like this how frail is man how few is days how full of trouble the only word I change is man because it's humanity how frail our people including those who minister I left feeling strong after I'd finished at the seminary it wasn't long before I realized just how weak I am and though I have gifts and they are strengths in my life nevertheless down inside me are weaknesses that I will carry with me to the grave and the same for you now in light of that I want to look at two perspectives of the ministry that are opposites this semester I want to look at the dark side and I would put it under the category of what makes the ministry so challenging why is it that I get an email from a guy just this morning that tells me he's leaving the ministry what was it that was so challenging that he couldn't continue in it he's one of our grads and the next semester I want to talk about what makes the ministry so charming or fulfilling to keep a guy like me in it for over half a century and I wake up every morning so motivated and excited about the opportunity to serve Christ in whatever capacity and not every day is is that great but the privilege of serving Christ is always great now what are the things that cause ministry to become difficult challenging why are times sometimes dark and I've I've limited the answer to three areas one of them I want to talk on today the next one I want to talk on on the 6th of October when I'm back and then the 3rd on the 28th of November what I'm here for the 3rd time for this semester the first is the difficult people who are around us that's part of the reason ministry is so challenging you will encounter difficult people throughout your ministry I was never told that it's seminary I don't know why it was so surprised because I had difficult fellow students to get along with and I was a difficult one as well it stands to reason but we often don't think about it your time in ministry will be spent with difficult people and if you allow it and if you don't know how to handle them and they get the best of you than you're among the statistics and you finally say just isn't worth it and you can't go to some country where they're not present you can't go into any work where it isn't true you can't be on any faculty where there aren't other difficult faculty members you can't go to a school where there aren't difficult students and you can't serve in a pastor it where there weren't difficult members of the church so that's the subject I want to address today the difficult people around us the second will be in October I'll talk about the human tendencies within us that also makes ministry challenging I put together a little list an argumentative spirit narcissism pride deceit envy and unsubmitted spirit the suspicious spirit hypocrisy jealousy envy lust a number of neuroses and psychoses and evil tendencies those are things that that go on inside of us and you take them with you if you are inpatient now you will be impatient in your ministry if you have an acrid tongue you will have an acrid tongue in ministry that won't change unless you you really go to work on those techniques that will curb those tendencies because you're bored you you called it goes with the depravity package and you've got that to deal with that also makes it and people who have those tendencies will make life in ministry difficult for you we have a saying if it worked for people ministry would be a breeze and that it's true but stop to think if it weren't for people we wouldn't have a ministry we wouldn't have points of accountability I wouldn't have a team of people to work with at our great church out in Frisco I wouldn't have close friends I wouldn't have folks to listen when I preach or teach I wouldn't have a reason to prepare or to hone creative skills that God has given me it's people that are so vital to our ministry and yet they can really be honoring and and some of them as I'm gonna mention can even be dangerous so there are the there are the people and then there are those tendencies within us now the third has to do with things that happen to us I call them circumstance unexpected circumstances you can get your degree you can finish well you can be fairly proficient in the areas of your gift but once you have gotten underway in ministry things can occur apart from [Music] your being ready for them your spouse can walk out on you and and want a divorce from you changes a whole face of ministry that was never addressed in my years at Dallas seminary you can you can get a report from your doc and he says you have less than two years to live and the circumstance that happens to you a tragedy can occur in your city or in your church and and you didn't see it coming but it makes ministry they're difficult you can realize as things change around you that you no longer fit I've got on my phone in in the car right now a note from a young man that graduated some 15 years ago from the school and he's just made a decision to leave that particular place where he's been serving faithfully and he said I'm no longer fit the particular ministry it has become so that ministry area has changed he doesn't fit it I never once heard the word fit at the school I want you to hear it it's from others as well as from me fit is a big part of why we are called to a ministry or why we're able to stay there the fit is sometimes tailor-made I I went to New England I was there for two years it's the longest decade of my life I'll tell you and it wasn't New England's fault I didn't fit the scene oh and you've heard that story from me before others go and that young man went that I've been toured when I was at the seminary loved him he was from that area he went back to that area his entire years of ministry recently retired were spent right there in Connecticut and he loved it and I was always kind of amazed that that he but he he understood that that setting that scene and my November meeting with you I'm going to talk about circumstances that can occur without your really having a lot to do with him but as a result of them you have difficulty serving Christ even though you did very well at school so I want to help prepare you for for what is what is in front of you so let's get into it Paul is born again in Acts chapter 9 I want to do a little timeline here and I'll show you why Oh when we think about people and the role of difficult people paul is converted in acts 9 you know the story on the road to damascus as best i can figure that was 8035 so not long after the death and resurrection and ascension of the savior paul is engaged in acts of terrorism and torment against believers and the lord says in his sovereign grace that's enough I want this man Saul of Tarsus on on our team and he changed it he transformed it I'll tell you that that is a marvelous story and if you think God can't change it a impossible person you've forgotten acts 9 because he is transformed that's acts 9 and it's easy to miss a very important statement that is said while Paul is blind waiting for the next movement on God's part now that he's under the sovereign eye and will of God the Lord said to Ananias go I last didn't want to go because he knew the kind of man Saul of Tarsus had been it would be a frightening encounter and he couldn't he couldn't believe the man was changed and and the Lord says to him go he's a chosen instrument of mine to bear my name I'm reading from acts 9 16 he's to bear my name before the Gentiles and kings and sons of Israel next verse hear it well for I will show him how much he must suffer for my name's sake what an interesting introductory statement I want you to go I want you to minister to him I want you to take his hand help him up he has no sight and I want him to come to realize the things he will suffer this is 35 80 35 roughly when I turn ahead to 2nd Corinthians 11 I'm moving to a t56 roughly okay so we've gone ahead 21 years 21 years later Paul reflects on his life and you've read the account and you've sighed as I have is he lists the things that happen verse 20 four or five times I received from the Jews 39 lashes easy to jump on to the next thing in the list I've never received one lash nor have you most likely maybe if you're from another country where that is done and where torture is still allowed maybe you've gone through some of that we have a man in our church use of powa former POWs and after seven years in the Hanoi Hilton he for the grace of God was was allowed to leave and his story we aren't in one veteran stay Sunday and when I shook his hand it was like holding on to a bag of bones every finger had been broken during his appeal w years he could understand words like this listen to these words 21 years after so after his conversion 39 times three times I was beaten with rods once I was stoned three times shipwrecked night today I've spent in the deep a night and a day in the deep I've been on frequent journeys in dangers from rivers and robbers and countrymen and Gentiles and in the city and in the wilderness and on the sea and among false brethren I've been in labor and hardships through many sleepless nights hunger and thirst often without food I'm glad you're quiet right now he had been starving he was in cold and exposure one of the books I read this summer was a story of a man who got out of a plane crash in the Arctic and spent a hundred days where every one of those days were spent below zero story is phenomenal apart from such external things there's the daily pressure of me on me of concern for all the churches woven into the fabric of that painful section or people people he was hounded from the very beginning of his conversion to his beheading in second Timothy chapter 1 chapter 4 and I turned there and if I figure correctly that's about 80 67 35:56 67 over 30 years this great man of God suffered at the hands of brutal evil people I'm not sure how much he must suffer Paul reflects on in 2nd Corinthians 11 he writes about our times in 2nd Timothy 3 in the last days that's now difficult times I often read it have come and the list is all about people listen to those to whom you will minister there will be lovers of self lovers of money they will be boastful arrogant revilers they will disobey their parents they will be ungrateful they be unholy they will be unloving they will be irreconcilable there will be malicious gossips they will be without self-control some will be brutal haters of good treacherous reckless conceited lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God holding to a form of godliness and so on you know you know the passage almost by heart I know that but you've not ministered to them yet that's a whole nother ballgame when those you serve turn on you now most won't let me let me make it clear this is not haranguing that everybody we work with is a loser and everybody's against us and that all people are deliberately a wicked and harsh hard to deal with I don't know of any work that will allow you to be with some of the greatest people on the planet like the ministry to use the words of Hebrews there are people of whom the world isn't worthy when I think back over a circle of friends that I've gathered through the years I'll tell you I I give thanks for them rather regularly they have helped me in ways that I can hardly describe now I took time yesterday morning just had my Bible open and I began to make a list of difficult people you'll be happy to know you were not on the list no this is from the Bible so hang on Abel had Cain his brother who murdered him start there Abraham had a lot who never got it right just a pain in the butt from the start to the end dealing with lot was a drain and this godly great hearted Abraham did his best with lot who wound up choosing Sodom and loving the lifestyle Esau had his twin brother Jacob who chiseled him out of his birthright Joseph had all of his brothers who turned on him and abandoned him Moses at Pharaoh who made his life miserable and Aaron who built the golden calf and all those Hebrews who complained from start to finish after the Exodus Joshua had akin who secretly hid his sin caused calamity defeat David had Saul insanely jealous of him tried to kill him more than once he had Absalom his son who turned on him and rebelled David wasn't that great a father by the way and he had Amnon who raped Absalom's sister yes Tamar and David never really dealt with it yet Chevy I who cursed him and threw stones at him when he was down by the way in David's life there was Abigail who had a husband nobody wanted to be around named knee ball who was an absolute fool in the owed her his life and there was hosea who had a wife that he was commanded to remarry and she couldn't stay faithful josé's a godly guy with an ungodly wife job had his so-called councilors Elijah had a habit Jezebel Bonnie and Clyde at the Old Testament they hated him they threatened him niyama had Sanballat Oh behind geisha remember Esther had Haman who conspired against the Jews and hoped to annihilate all of them Daniel had his commissioners who were jealous of him in suspicions that's just the Old Testament Jesus lived his life with enemies born with Herod the Great on the throne difficult people like scribes and Pharisees I was on that Sunday morning on Matthew 23 well get your attention I mean Jesus as strong as goats breath he comes on in that 23rd chapter oh like seven times he goes woe to you woe to you woe to you woe to you to the very people who had attacked him and made his life miserable and he didn't even flinch they despised him yeah Judas who betrayed him John the Baptizer had Herod Antipas who married that yo yo yo Herodias while he was drunk her daughter did a dance and he he had John beheaded Stephen at Caiaphas Peter and John the Sanhedrin saul of tarsus that whole list of people including Alexander the coppersmith who did him much harm and he told Timothy don't have anything to do with him listen to me I'm not taking your time just to go over a list I'm telling you this is real you're gonna deal with people who despise you who dis affect you who doubt you who work against you who conspire those who will be envious of your success and those who will shove you down when you fail they are not the majority but you will feel at times they are because they are so vicious Paul gets to the end of his life and he writes to Timothy come before winter longing even though he had been through all of the head he longed for Timothy's presence he remembered Debus member Dimas interesting story there's a lot of mystery about him Alexander who did him much harm and then he deigns others at the very end of his life he's naming people people people you can't master without people but all of this to say listen to me you need to be wise not gullible not all who flatter you and brag on you have you're good at heart and there will some there will be some who see you as an easy take because you're young and they'll take advantage and you'll need the grace of God to stand against them some of them you'll have to discipline you just won't be able to overlook many of them you will you'll choose wrong elders deacons they'll make your life miserable and they literally ruin the church you're trying to build because they weren't qualified and you realized too late that they have no business in that position are you hearing me are you realizing that's the world you're stepping into with your great training and I don't know of a place that trains them better this is not any kind of put down on this place I would say it if I were standing in some other Seminary today it can't the school can't do everything some of it is just stuff about life you have to get somebody like me to show up and mention these things so I want to close with 10 major lessons I've learned through the years ok no extra charge further for these 10 in no particular order I could to color I could develop each one and it would take too long I will go a little longer on some than others number one be extremely cautious regarding those you endorse to fill leadership roles be very careful never choose anyone in a hurry or based only on personality or wealth or influence or several people's recommendation be very careful just being faithful in attendance and fun to be around does not mean they're qualified to serve as an elder look at those qualities in first Timothy three read them over and over and over do your very best to be able to use that checklist as you select some you want to have fewer that are better than many who are poor be careful number two I've learned over these many years it's easier to find purity than confidentiality most people cannot keep their mouth shut so you want to have folks around you who are gonna be in trustworthy positions who know how to keep confidences you'll learn the hard way little by little though they will emerge pay attention to that matter of confidentiality number three this is an interesting one watch out for those who play a significant role in your being called to a particular place of ministry watch out for those who play a particular a significant role in your being called to a place of ministry they will often be the ones who turn on you later I don't know why it's an interesting syndrome that's a story I could get into several times when candidate entomb any not a few visit homes listen to the people that have been in the church a long time those who don't need your friendship and those who aren't pandering for that ask hard questions number four keep your distance from the opposite sex do not spend time alone with someone from the opposite sex don't go in your car alone with her or with him who is alone don't go to dinner with them don't sit on their bed at the hospital don't write them little notes keep your distance if counseling is necessary have someone of that sex with you when you're talking with him and leave your door ajar remember the for perils I've told you about before silver sloth self and sex they're often one of the reasons are a major reason for a downfall in ministry silver sloth self and sex don't hold our hands I had a lady and a former church wanted to always hug me and kiss me top of everything else she had bad breath I talk about desperate I had one that had a love affair with me and would write me love notes more when the staff found out about that they gave me Fitz she left me little gifts in the pulpit and on and on finally I told our security find a way to remove her now I does that sounds terrible like she's a hit man or something he could have been but I said no just so he saw her in line she was gonna come by and fawn all over and-and-and he said you see that door over there it says exit and she said yes I do he said that's the door you want to walk through right now because if you don't I will arrest you it was a threat it was a he wouldn't have but she thought he would so that kind of took care of her she wasn't around you say well that's kind of rude it's not nearly as bad as allowing things that are inappropriate don't tell me you won't fall don't tell me that'll never happen to you or your mate you don't know what you're talking about you're in the majority here there you'll be all alone and the enemy knows just the right setup stay away from a close relationship with the opposite sex you've got your hands full dealing with those of the same sex by the way if you're a preacher you probably are not a counselor it's awfully good to have those who counsel well and let them help you with that I have a man who stands down front with me and I point to him when someone asks for help and I will say see that gentleman right there he's a person I would go to if I had a need in my own family that's the man I would talk to and it's wonderful to have him right there and he helps me with those situations so far for the grace of God I've never been in a situation that has been questionable by the grace of God number five no matter how much you need it don't take money from anybody don't handle the money don't count the money don't transfer monies don't accept money and do not borrow money it is filthy lucre if you're up against it that's why you have elders and your integrity will help you when you say to them I am really strapped and let me explain why and I need help maybe the church can help maybe not but don't do any of it secretly behind the scenes it'll bite you I people want to give me money and I immediately hand it to an usher ask him to put it wherever they counted I don't know where they count our money I don't know where our safe is and just recently I found out about the process we go through and I've been I started the church over 18 years ago and I just found out the process it's a very careful process and our staff our our pastors never touch the money we only get the reports I hope you hear me here it just doesn't look good when folks see you taking money even if a person says make sure this gets to Houston and helps them in their need if it's an exit offering tell them to put it in the plate in the exit offering you don't handle money it's a good time for me to add one other side of this I didn't write down but I'm gonna say it I'll be careful about taking money for things you do for folks years and years ago I decided I should never take a dime for doing a funeral it's just a personal conviction and I've turned back thousand-dollar checks I've given back - $100 bills that came in the mail I have spoken with people who begged me to use it for something I'll say no if you want to do that do it through the church but I don't take money I love the one that you lost I didn't do it for a fee and you want to give thought to that regarding weddings as well but some of that's up to you number six some people are not just difficult I said earlier they're dangerous I've been threatened several times in my ministry when I was in California I got a note that came still makes me kind of tremble to think about him from an individual he said he was gonna rape my wife and my two older teenage daughters I showed it to uh LAPD they checked it and they said it's authentic you have an alarm system I don't get one you have security here well not much beefed it up this is real more recently very recently until yesterday when they arrested him we were threatened at insight for living by men who listened to our broadcast he said you told me if I gave money to the ministry all my problems would go away I gave money and my problems did not go away I would never say that that was a lie but he's deranged and he said as a result I'm going to kill you and your wife and everyone in that blankety-blank building called insight for living that was in August he resurfaced in September and just yesterday was arrested for a felony where they got him he's behind bars and we will press charges he's deranged hopefully he gets the help that he needs this is real folks you are the target of those who will do you harm I'll stop there if Paul had an Alexander and John and I all trophies don't be surprised here's another one when you are targeted by the enemy some do not have you're good at heart they want to bring you down they want to bring down your ministry on a little different note number eight when hiring or releasing someone from your ministry do not manipulate the process here's what I mean talk no one into joining the team talk no one out of leaving I've done both I've regretted it every time every time I've just been convinced so it so should join up I've been equally convinced so and so should not leave and I've applied pressure and my style of salesmanship and I talked him into it do I regret that if someone needs to leave release them quit dragging your feet quit feeling sorry if they need to leave the ministry they're hurting the ministry it's not good for them and it isn't good for the ministry you're a part of release them be fair with them even generous if it if that's appropriate Bobette I mean with your severance but holding on to them thinking it'll work when it hasn't worked for X number of you you're dreaming and by the way when you stay out of it the Lord is a wonderful way of leading them and you're you look back and you go why that was great how God did that to more and you're very patient to sit through this list number nine when you're led to leave a place of ministry do not expect everyone to understand and affirm your decision those transition times can include some major surprises and real disappointments people don't quite know what to do when you leave and funny things happen I just call it funny things though it isn't funny it's strange and you'll see a side of them you never saw before some who were very close to you will distance themselves from you those who once affirmed you over the years will blame you for something you're not responsible for you just are following the Lord's leading and leading by the way don't spend forever leaving you know what I mean get out I don't mean you announcing they leave that night but a month is plenty of time three months is far too long I gave a church three months one time and it was three of the longest months I felt like quacking at the end of that third month I was such a lame duck during that time so move on move on number 10 if you're married your relationship with your partner your spouse is the single most important relationship in your life aside from Jesus so we'll leave Jesus out of the picture for a moment you know what I'm saying when I say that no other person should know all the things you share with her or with him your spouse's opinion regarding big decisions is more important than anyone else's opinion listen to them they are rarely wrong aggravating sometime how white they are I've said to Cynthia it's amazing how your voice and the voice of the Holy Spirit kind of sound alike you have no higher priority than the cultivation of your marital relationship your last breath no one should grieve more greatly than your partner in the calling that you sent to a place of ministry if your spouse has no peace don't go the old story was you go and they'll find a way to like it I've dealt with a lot of those who never found a way to like it and they made their lives and their husband or wife's life and family's life miserable as I look back over the years of ministry my greatest delights of my greatest heartaches have been related to people remember I added both and I'm not here to turn you against anyone I'm here to help hone the edge of your discernment because I want you to succeed I I want you to get into and enjoy as best you can a life of ministry in a depraved world so that you can look back over the years and say God was really good to give me such clothes dear friends and to help me through such difficult times you

Channel: Dallas Theological Seminary

Views: 38,652

Keywords: Dallas Theological Seminary, DTS, Jesus, Bible, Grace, Community, Dr. Chuck Swindoll, 2 Corinthians 11:22-28, ministry, relationships, conflict, wisdom, challenges

Id: 9XxVFTz_4HA

Length: 51min 8sec (3068 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 22 2017