Pat Buchanan on Suicide of a Superpower

civilizations die from suicide not by murder that quotation comes from historian arnold toynbee and is dear to the heart of and central to the argument of Patrick J Buchanan uncommon knowledge now welcome to uncommon knowledge I'm Peter Robinson we're shooting today in Washington DC speechwriter for President Nixon communications director for President Reagan candidate for President himself in 1992 1996 and 2000 and longtime television and radio commentator Patrick J Buchanan is the author of more than 10 books his most recent book suicide of a superpower Pat welcome good to see you again Peter I suppose it is in the interest of full disclosure I should note that we've known each other since I was an intern for you when I was in college in 1977 I know about you but I get a backache when that pain when I didn't recall it being that far back 1977 remarkable you know always three years out of the Nixon White House that's exactly right mm-hmm civilizations die from suicide not by murder we'll come to the argument by argument in the book book why do you lead the book with that quotation well because I think the West is disintegrating it's the greatest civilization the world has ever produced and I think it is dying take a look at what happened from the day for example my father was born in 1905 Western empires controlled the entire world with the addition of Japan in Asia six or seven countries America included controlled the entire world we went through two world wars that carried off something like 100 million people most of them Western peoples and as a consequence I think all these Western nations they all lost their empires almost all have lost their armies and navies they have lost their basic fundamental Christian faith so certainly Europe the Pope says is a desert of godlessness and as they have lost that their culture has begun to disintegrate and the people have begun to die there's not a single Western nation whose native-born population has a birth rate that will enable it to stay in its present form through this century take a country like Italy it's got a birthrate each new generation is one-third smaller than the last Russia is going to lose twenty five million people between now and 2050 it's already lost ten million since the independence day in 1990 Japan it's going to lose twenty five million people you go down there these are UN statistics they're based on fertility records that go back when the nations began to die basically to the mid-1970s so I think you're going to see the West and its people's shrink as a percentage of world population all of them I think will be predominantly in terms of their population by the end of this century folks from the third world and from different cultures and civilizations and the idea they're going to preserve Western culture and civilization I think is is really putting Hope over experience you can try to recover enough to continue with the show segment one immigration suicide of a superpower quote the European and Christian core of our country you just gave an overview and we're talking about the United States is shrinking while mass immigration is altering forever the face of America close quote now what I want to do is draw some distinctions here to get at the central part of the argument no descendant of Irish scots-irish and German immigrants can be against all immigration on principle mm-hmm so draw the distinctions here what is it about current immigration that's alarming as opposed to past immigrations well the past immigrations let's take the the large immigration that came in from 1890 to 1920 those were folks the Irish came in of course 1845 to 1849 the potato famine huge numbers of them Germans began coming in later in the century and then you had the folks from Italy from Poland from Slovakia Jews from Russia and The Pale of Settlement and all of those folks came into this country basically by 1924 when the immigration restrictions were imposed in his terrified Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt however we did have a melting pot then one of the major elements of it was the parochial and public schools which took these kids who didn't speak the language and many of them came from broken families and dropped them immerse them into the America's popular culture and higher culture they learned American literature of the American language American history American heroes holidays so that by 1960 97 percent of the people in this country all spoke the English language we all had basically the same judeo-christian values ninety-five percent of the country was predominant overwhelmingly Christian African Americans were the most churched and Christianized of all and so we had one country one nation one people and it was an incredible achievement and since then and it rested on in the first place a long breathing space mass immigration stops in 1924 and doesn't begin again until 65 is that correctly you've got 40 years there and in addition to the 40 years time of children and grandchildren you've got these experiences folks went through the invention of radio where all this some guy named radio really culture you go through the Depression together those tough times we go through the war together which I can remember as a little kid the enormous patriotism everyone had and then you go into the Cold War era the early Cold War era I would say to 1960 and you got an air of good feeling from Eisenhower and Kennedy in though at that time I mean listen that post-war era is I can recall for my father when he saw Harry Truman walking across the ellipse where he played football I mean I was concerned of my old man was going to go after the guy there was really many but he was walking himself right in those days there was a Truman McCarthy era you can call it when politically we were at swords point over what FDR had done and how we'd lost all the benefits of victory in World War two but we were one nation in one people take my father was up at the Holy Name society I don't know if they'd probably abolish that now by right now but in that group a number of them were Harry Truman Democrats and my father and his friends wanted to invite Joe McCarthy to speak and there's a huge uproar over that but that's straight politics right now what's happened subsequent to that and I don't want to be long-winded in this answer is that your whole consensus that kept us together has collapsed we no longer have a common faith from the 1960s all those revolutions in the 60s one of them was a rejection of Christianity rejection of our moral consensus and moral code sexual revolution sexual revolution the anti-war Revolution which degenerated into part of it into anti Americanism the civil rights revolution which is initially about equal rights has now moved on to entitlement and privilege so I think the things that held us together I see them all basically disintegrating and you see society sort of breaking down and breaking apart and I describe it as sort of balkanization of America and I just I just want be really explicit because there's a you google around on this book or on your name and you get the word racism coming all right I've known you for a long time so I'm partial toward you but I believe that on the argument of this book that's nonsense right you don't you're not saying one race or one ethnic group is - what you're saying is the country needs a breathing space to assimilate people and it's trickier now than it used to be because what you're assimilating them to the matrix is cracking up right is that correct it's not only that but I do believe that it is is I once said famously it is far more easy to assimilate if you had a million Englishmen coming into Virginia than if you had a million folks a million Zulu from my friend chief Bhutto lazy's tribe I mean they have a hellish time assimilating them into after South Africa where they've worked together or live together for hundreds of years now if you've got people from all over these Asia and Africa and Latin America that never before have been assimilated you need to have that basic melting pot needs to be more powerful than ever stronger than ever and you've got to have time to work with it but our multicultural Leafs have thrown that out people are urged to come into this country retain their culture their religion their traditions or customs all the rest of it so we are becoming like I think increasingly the Balkan Peninsula Croats and Serbs and Montenegrins and Macedonians and others and the major problem I think on immigration and these folks are Catholic folks by and large are the folks coming in from Mexico and from Latin America they are now 50 million it used to be about two million and it's estimated at 135 million predominantly in the southwest I think those folks will culturally socially linguistically have one foot in Mexico as well as one in the United States and are you risking a giant Kosovo in the United States of America and so I think these are things look if you took say a hundred thousand Hispanic Americans didn't do as George Washington said all the immigrants should be moved around to various communities so basically they can assimilate right Samuel Huntington the late Hartman professor wrote a book in which he uh hunting there was no liberal right no excuse me who was no conservative but he said the problem here in rightly identified in particular one problem and the old days immigrants tended to disperse right Italians violated that to some extent to this day eighty percent of people of Italian descent live within 500 miles of New York but still they dispersed they learned the language what's different now new every day 80% yeah yeah it's a high person right and so um but now you've got across the Southwest a huge population that's not dispersing was Huntington's argument that's something new and something uniquely in our history threat right what a normal mean you've had 135 million you have a fully mean it's about 30 million more than there are people in Mexico you have a nation within a nation yeah so let me try you this what I mean my friend Victor Davis Hanson you and he have gone after each other a few times Victor lives in Selma he's fourth or fifth generation in a ranch in the Central Valley of California he has seen the minister good luck well you seen it all of his own eyes sure Victor says today California is beloved California there's no problem that twenty years of cooling it wouldn't solve mm-hmm so I don't want to try to say is if by some if you could go on the border with 20 years solve the problem is it gone you know well how dark is your view well I'm asking I think you've got if there is a solution this would be this would be it as I argue at the end of the book first you've I got to put a security fence on the border because we're being invaded basically and they're not evil people but they're coming in here because what is here is a lot better for them than what they leave at home do a security fence on the border and do all the things to stop illegal immigration I would stop and leave us the lost art forces yeah and I would legal immigration I would halt all legal immigration except for obviously there's some cases like for about 250,000 a year could come in but stop it until unemployment gets to six percent the United States why are you bringing in each year 1 million people to work in the United States when we got 23 million people who are unemployed or underemployed what are you doing to your own people black white asian whatever by bringing in new workers when you got this enormous unemployment problem it doesn't make sense and you mentioned legal immigration halt that for well oh my goodness some the point is Americans are deeply ideologized if you will to say immigration good and therefore we can't stop it something's wrong if we do but we did stop it for 40 years and during our first 60 years of existence as a nation there was virtually zero I mean there was a very small immigration something like 20,000 I think in the 1820s or something like that so you have to but this is one of the reasons it's suicide of a superpower you can't even discuss these things and so and if you can't then you're not going to solve it right segment to faith you begin chapter two of suicide of a superpower which is entitled chapter two is entitled the death of Christian America with three quotations Woodrow Wilson America was born a Christian nation Harry Truman your dad's favorite right Harry Truman I was in a letter to the Pope Harry Truman wrote probably Hrodna Fanny is coming from Missouri and where he did I'd read it said thought the frantic quotation is this is a Christian nation Barack Obama the third of these quotations we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation explain the significance of those three well Christianity and both the protestant catholic versions if you will catholics about one-fourth of the country or were this is basically the cradle faith of Western civilization the Roman Empire collapses and you come into quote the Dark Ages they weren't all that dark Christianity basically revived Europe created and defined the new Europe Christian civilization the West that is the cradle faith that is what holds us or held us all together as a community and as a civilization now the faith is dying it is dead as I said the Pope says you know it's a desert of godlessness in Europe this Pope said that and more people go to mosque in in Great Britain on Fridays than go to church on Sundays so Christianity is dying or dead in Europe and the United States the number of Christians is down to 75% what does this mean now means one of the things that held us together is gone but secondly Christianity is the basis of your moral consensus the moral code by which a community lives and we know some post 1960s look at all these culture war issues that you get the abortion and homosexuality and gay marriage and stem-cell research all these things ripping us apart these divisions are rooted in the death of faith in the hearts of minds or it's non-existent of a huge slice of the population and probably a majority of its lead so we have basically as someone said famously at Houston in 1992 a religious war going on in this country Pat Christopher Hitchens the late Christopher Hitchens right on this very program quote our knowledge of right and wrong is innate in us don't need religion for morality we know that we can't get along if we permit perjury theft murder rape close quote now I'm being provocative by putting the words of Christopher Hitchens I don't want to get in a fight over the Catechism with a graduate of Gonzaga and Georgetown but isn't it the teaching of the church itself that we have natural law graven in our hearts a matter of conscience that didn't exactly basic morality precedes religion so isn't there some whole part and it's consistent with true religion right rightfully contested all right you see what I'm arguing here I see exactly what you're arguing go ahead and but let's take a look at the issue of abortion 53 million abortions now this is I mean in America I grew up in that would have been comparable to what's got what went on in the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany people would have said that's just impossible it was illegal in virtually every state criminal I mean Armand hammers old man was an abortionist who went to prison so that is a dramatic change homosexual homosexuality and homosexual marriages if you criticize them today you know they that's one of the reasons I'm no longer at MSNBC this Human Rights Campaign said look what be can and said he said homosexuality is unnatural and immoral that was not a controversial statement up until very very recently so what I say is if you've got no moral common moral consensus or moral code you don't have a community anymore and when you as Christianity diminishes there's a political aspect here 90% of all presidential votes for Republicans come from nominal Christians 90% come from European Americans white folks okay that's what McCain's mean with Nixon and Reagan and their landslides they were even higher because the percentages of minority folks now Christians went from 85 down to 75% and they're steadily declining some of these as I've write some of these traditional old Methodists Presbyterians Episcopalians those churches are disintegrating and dying Catholic churches in trouble so 75% christian vote continues to fall and the white vote which 90% of Republicans is down to 74 percent of the electorate and 63 percent of the nation it continues to fall as that continues and there's nothing going to stop it as that continues the states of Arizona Nevada New Mexico and Colorado go the way of California what's California well Ronald Reagan wanted ran four times in California won it in four huge landslides Richard Milhous Nixon of Orange County Fame I remember that he puts on five national tickets and those tickets won California every time he got the highest majority ever gotten as of 1950 and a Senate race he did Roos lose the governorship for California is gone I said it was gone after making wit and Meg Whitman ran for governor I called him up I knocked him Mike Murphy who was advising her Mike Murphy political consultant Georgetown graduate right coupled I said Mike why'd she lose and he said oh she could never win it's California is a blue state it's just gone it's just gone the others are gone so our institution should be looking at a new site well I'm telling my children to look at real estate in Texas listen I'm trying to give you a little hope here right all right Obama administration announces a regulation that would force Catholic organizations to offer health insurance plans that cover contraceptives aboard Bastian's and so forth all in violation of Catholic teaching and what happens do the bishops who for decades now have spent more time in politics in my crude and possibly unfair characterization than they have engaged in teaching the teachings of the church lie down and take it no right Obamacare is responsible for a medical miracle because across America Bishop suddenly grow spines and they push back and they have polls show mmm huge support among Catholic people and indeed Protestant people you've even got archbishop Chaput of Philadelphia speaks to a pro-life gathering this is this disease that directed at you Patrick J Buchanan changing the course of American culture seems like a huge task but st. Paul felt exactly the same way redeeming a civilization has already been done once it can be done again there's a has he been has he been following me on TV because they've been asked a question you know if we get the right politics I said look the solution to America's problem isn't going to come even for my Ronald Reagan it's gonna take a st. Paul because this is what you are talking about reconverting an entire nation away from the direction in which it is going and that is why there is such pessimism in this book now did the bishops do a good job on this one they did an excellent job on this one standing up saying you're not going to force us to do things that violate our conscience and they first time I was down there at st. Mary's where they have the Latin Mass somebody who got up in the pulpit and read a letter from Cardin are our cars a world Cardinal was a large yeah and and so and it was terrific but look how look how much I mean if you if you think of the previous generation either ships Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago the seamless garment which I write and my perhaps it's I'm being unfair to say so but it seemed to me a form in practice it was cooperation with the Democratic Party Mahoney out in prime Los Angeles same thing you know they come up with the elaborate theological justification for effectively supporting the Democratic Party well now you've got newly new red hat cardinal Dolan up in New York right this guy's just gotten punched in the nose the snow generation is tougher in the first place and these bishops suddenly see that's it Hoss game is Ryan II agree with you but look where we are fighting from I mean if you had done this no administration would have dared to do or attempt something like this back in the 1950s 60s or 70s look at how far they've moved the frontier of the state into the church and overwhelmed it thus far to the point where our backs are against the wall and suddenly we decide hey they're going to run right over us unless we fight and so I think they have done a good job here but the very fact that the state would attempt something like that and then demand a compromise suggests to me that meaning I mean the burr treat has been long and ignominiously segments three traits suicide of a superpower quote the Industrial evisceration of the United States will continue until we make nothing the world wants but Hollywood movies close quote by the way I think that's a little hopeful bollywood is going to take Hollywood but go ahead and explain that argument well it's it's the United States of America when Iran in 1992 and 91 I used to be a free trader of Milton Friedman night free trader until Milton wrote me a letter in 1990 or so and he said Patrick you are doing the devil's work it said wait a minute you know Milton you know take a look I was a free trader but take a look at the consequences of this doctrine this policy we have all believed in conservatives from not certainly from 1960 when I was entered the movement and I've been out here and I'm taking a look at these consequences and it is creating a disaster and I said if you go with NAFTA and GATT and the World Trade Organization and take this nation with a highest standard of living in the world the highest wages the toughest regulations on manufacturing and you drop it into a pool where there's about a billion foreign workers who will work for 1/10 of it you will lose every manufacturing job in the United States in the last decade the bush two decade the United States lost 55,000 factories and six million manufacturing jobs one of every three we had in the United States of America and that's what gets me little agitated about seeing these Republicans all of them out there free-trade Republicans saying we got to get manufacturing back they all voted for NAFTA they all voted for GATT they all went with the World Trade Organization they all went with MFN for China and look at last year alone the Chinese we sold a hundred billion dollars worth of products to the Chinese a lot of it raw materials and stuff and they sold us 400 billion they read 300 billion dollar trade surplus and they're taking that money and they're moving all over the world and buying resources up they are practicing what our forefathers practiced in the 19th century and we're acting like the British the cob tonight's and all the rest of that crowd and the British Empire who blew it in the second half of the 19th century by practicing free trade while the Americans dumped products into their markets and protected our own with a tariff okay couple statistics the United States is still the biggest manufacturing economy in the world we produce a fifth of the world's total manufacturing for the Chinese in terms of real dollars according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics American factories produced real dollars real terms 57 percent more goods in 2010 than they did in 1987 Manufacturing is up what's down is jobs sure productivity is way up so even as the 19th century comes to a close and eighty eighty-five percent of Americans are employed in agriculture the employment in agriculture drops quickly and steadily throughout the 20th century but the productivity is up we're growing more food likewise manufacturing the factories are manufacturing the last six months ago I may be wrong about this Gazette the data I was looking at maybe about a year roll I can't remember knightly the trifid in any event manufacturing was growing pretty quickly and was for a period in last 18 months the hottest the most quickly growing sector you sure know about that's doing a good job I'm saying didn't well I'm saying your argument what you want you're talking about manufacturing jobs right rather than about manufacturer argument is I'm putting this too right in the first place it's not with free trade it's with what the teachers unions have done to American education if you want Americans to be competitive in the world you've got to get them good schooling and your argument is with all these regulations that make a factory owners say when I wait a minute here do I employ ten more people or do I make a capital investment in a piece of machinery that's never going to have to collect Social Security done which I'm not gonna have to worry about Obamacare okay so those are your arguments that's what I'm putting to you Pat all right who's going to make the Machine ring who's going to make the robot my view is this there's a lot of people in this country a number of them who really do not have the academic skills and abilities or natural academic abilities to do college work in the various and in all kinds of studies however they have always been more than able to do work with their hands tools and machines at one point we produce 42 percent of all the world produced in manufacturers Americans built of the machines of war I think half of all the machines of war used on both sides in World War two my view is very simple if it can be made here it should be made here I don't believe in global free trade putting Americans making 30 or 20 bucks an hour into competition with folks making 2 bucks an hour why did the China the Chinese sell 400 billion to us and by 100 billion 1994 they simply cut the value of their currency in half which doubled the price of our goods coming in and cut the price of their goods going out by 50% I mean these people manipulate their currencies and they do it to bring manufacturing home this is not people talk about a level playing field Vince Lombardi did not say all I want is a level playing field he said winning is the only thing and we ought to realize this you know this is a rivalry a competition it's not war but it's a lot closer to war than it is to what these folks are talking about and I think what you're here's what I would do put a 30% tariff on all men all manufactured goods or all goods entering the United States I'd give you six hundred billion dollars eliminate all corporate taxation in the United States every company in the world would say you got me and point to for sure right okay but point here's what companies would say let's say Toyota gets its cars assembled here and say look if we send in the parts that drive trains batteries tires all those things from here they're gonna play us thirty percent tariff why don't we just move our factory there and produce there that's what countries do and so I'm saying that economic nationalism which Russell Kirk told me too late Russell Kirk said Pat use economic patriotism we don't like nationalism I said that's fine economic patriotism just the idea that we are in competition healthy competition with other countries and do what is best okay so I'm an American workers and forget about the global economy because nobody else is thinking about that everybody else is thinking about themselves but one of the things that's best for American workers is being able to buy products inexpensively well look at look at the camera and say ladies and gentlemen join the Buchanan program and you will pay twice as much for everything you buy at Walmart which is the largest retailer in America and also by the way the largest employer in America you slap on tariffs and all the stuff they buy in China is going to jump in price do you see what I'm saying all right let me talk to your camera all right when I was a kid when I was a kid converse all-stars we're the best tennis shoes made and the kids cost three bucks and they cost five bucks a pair now you can get them from Indonesia for a hundred and fifty dollars a pair do you really think it costs that much to make them of course not that's just Li what they charge in the United States over and above how much it costs to make them over there listen you bring these things back to the United States well everybody's gonna have to compete here the idea that means as long as you got that tariff you take all that revenue cut the taxes on producers here and there we'll beat everybody in the world so markets don't really work markets look I believe in a freer market than we have right now but I do believe in national borders for markets what kind of globalist says it's a good thing if our factories move from here to China last last question because maybe we get something cheaper are you signed up then with the Romney program on China I tell you the truth I don't understand the details I'm not sure he's laid out a detailed policy haven't found it on his website yet but he's clearly right riled about China in in a healthy way he is it's a start well listen I've seen ya Mitt Romney has talked about he has said people say if we do this we're going to be in a trade war you say what do they think we're in now Peter the last year we had a trade deficit of something like 500 and 50 billion dollar trade deficit a send us real goods they sent us real objects and we give them piece of promissory notes well they give we yeah we give them the same promissory notes that put this country in debt and what do they do with those those those notes they go and buy the resources of Australia Africa all the rest of it well we're out there with our foreign aid and all the rest of they are serious people look the Chinese are sacrificing now as you say they're taking paper that their people are aggravated consumption for sure they're sacrificing the present for the future and we're sacrificing the future for the present they will own the future as we own the present segment for the empire in a section of suicide of a superpower entitled quote the cold war conservatives you contrast Eisenhower and Reagan on the one hand with bush the elder and push the younger on the other give us a brief I found that passage fast and he give us that contrast eisenhower was and I regret to say we weren't very I mean we'd like to hike but he was sort of an old gentleman we were kids and he got a little rough on on MacArthur - I'm McCarthy who yeah he did but Jill went a little bit over the line by then I can see you're recalling the conversations and there was a burning tree Country Club I used to see Ike would come out there and he'd key off and now the Secret Service guys would go down the left and right side of the run of the fairway and they only had two clubs in there I didn't think there were clubs but I remember him and wheedle everybody liked Ike but he was you know and when the Democrats had Kennedy and everything they had a very exciting challenging candidate and we were looking for our own but let me say about Eisenhower look what he did he came in and he said this war is bleeding us to death at a real Korea and he said I'm going to end it in six months and the Chinese hesitated and he said if you don't come to the table and talk we're taking all the limits off what we're going to use when you fellows Chinese came to the table he did the same thing in the straight Taiwan Straits in 58 he said you know these 8-inch mortars over there and the guys knew 8-inch mortars were atomic capable so Ike was a very tough guy but he didn't want to get it he had seen war he didn't want to get his tree into another war and I think he did a tremendous job building up our defenses and from the time the Korean War ended about what six eight months into Eisenhower's administration June 53 until he left office how many Americans died in combat one the sniper got a guy in Lebanon only one mm-hmm just to make your point that's exactly that's exactly right look at Reagan I mean you work with Ronald Reagan we worked in the White House and I tell you a story that Marlin Fitzwater told me he was in the Oval press office secretary Marty was in the Oval Office with a couple of one other fella on the day of the inaugural of his successor George HW Bush and Braden came in said you know worst mistake I ever made was putting those Marines in Lebanon and Reagan went saluted and left and that was right that's one thing Reagan thing he did that I opposed because I've been over to Israel and everything and then Israeli today we're going to take us up to Beirut they'd already overrun north southern Lebanon and then he said we don't think you ought to go I said the only reason we're not going to go is because they're not gonna throw rocks at us they're going to shoot us so if we don't that's the situation why should we put Marines in we shouldn't put him in what do you do Grenada did Lebanon and one of the speeches I wrote which was the attack on Libya right and look what happened after that of course they blew up that Pan Am plane in the right block but anyhow Reagan Reagan believed in building up and dealing from strength and looking at the Soviets who believed in that you Reagan can lay out all these cards this is everything we got economically militarily etc now that's a deal and I think I believe in that in the bush 1 and Bush - I remember it's late Hugh side he told me you know and we were going over to the last day or was the the Reagan they gave Reagan a medal of freedom I was that's right that's right yeah we were in the room together these throwing together this yeah East Room together and and that was after I'd run against Bush won and I was way high up there Peter and the balcony but the hue side he said you know that can I have to take this tear this guy's finger off the trigger here I mean he was Bush one was in Somalia he was all Haiti was and he's you know Desert Storm and he loved doing all that New World Order stuff and and what is it all what does it all come to you now I mean what are we done we've done Panama we've done Haiti we've done Somalia we've done Desert Storm we've done Gulf War we've done Libya we've done all these pianists and all these places what of all these things availed the United States in the last 20 years as we have steadily begun to lose global leadership to China which hasn't gotten itself it seems into any Wars what did all these wars availed America so the counter argument would be Ike and Reagan demonstrate wonderful restraint mm-hm admiration and fully do them at the same time we have to recognize that the world is in a kind of freeze at that point because you've got a nuclear-armed superpower over there and a nuclear-armed superpower over here and the tensions are going to take place just on this narrow border Taiwan Korea and so forth which Ike froze up which one comes along and this cold war ends bush two comes along and it's long over the Soviet Union was never responsible for an atrocity like 3,000 dead on our own soil bush one and more so bush two are in a completely different situation where the world is suddenly open and dangerous in a way that it wasn't it was ultimately dangerous there Bush too is not facing a nuclear threat like Ike and Reagan but conventionally the thing is much hotter all of a sudden what is it avail us the argument is al Qaeda is fragmented Iran is a crude place but it represents a functioning democracy at least for now we've seen an Arab Spring which offers the hope of for the first time an aerialist role in this thing well it's the hope of some kind of government that pays sub bear some relation to the constitute the consent of in other words you could say if you got us someplace well the point is we are not responsible for all these things a lot of these have just occurred on Afghanistan I would agree with this all of us once do you you ran down that massacre of 3,000 Americans to al-qaeda and you tell the Taliban turn these sob s over to us or we're going to come get them right and the Taliban says no we said we're going to ask you one more time turn them over we're gonna come get you and they don't do it I agreed 100% was going in there knocking over the Taliban going to Tora Bora capturing or killing the people that did that but at that point we should have gone back to Kabul and said you see what happens when this happens to us it happens to you now don't let it happen again or next time it's going to be worse goodbye and good luck what are we doing in there trying to build a nation out of this 7th century civilization over there you know Burke when do you say men of intemperate minds can never be free their passions Forge their fetters take a look at what's been happening the last week where all these nutballs are running around the street because their holy books were burned all right I'm not saying they're bad people and they're very devout and nothing against them but the idea that you can turn that into the you know into the filching thirteen colonies is preposterous okay this is suicide of a superpower quote the more we shrink our defense perimeter the greater the gain in national unity behind our foreign policy all right let's see I want to see how far mr. Buchanan wants to shrink it we still have 50,000 fifty sixty thousand troops in Western Europe get him out of there bring him home South Korea thirty thirty some thousand troops get them out bring them out and confine yourself tell the South Koreans you've got an economy that's 40 times as large as the north population twice as large as the north we've got about twenty eight thousand troops in there we're going to take them off the DMZ where they're hostages you put the you put your troops there American naval and air power will continue to surround the area but we're not fighting another land war in South Korea you want forward naval bases in the Pacific you want Okinawa you're bringing all the way Okinawa because we're already oh bomb --is bringing them off there they're not gonna build that new that new air base in the north of Okinawa I would bring him back to Guam bring them off these foreign territories where a lot of people are sick of having occupation troops you know like it's not like when they they call I guess after three or four days they yeah you know you get tired of okay now let me just I'm sure I just want the distinctions here so get the ground troops home what about the United States Navy you want more carriers you want to shrink it you want to build the Navy down or no I think the Navy needs to be very very strong because basically we are an island continent it's got to be strong because that's one of the basically you have to be able to project power and force one adversaries but you know as gage said secretary advance anybody that recommends the United States fight another land war on the Asian continent ought to have his head examined which he said at West Point it's not as if nobody was listening he had shows the audience right that's right but you're not we're not going to send another army I mean when I was a kid - he sent 350 thousand to Korea five hundred twenty-five thousand Vietnam we're not going to do that again Iran let them have the nuke well I don't think I'm not sure Iran first I agree with the folks that are saying these people are rational actors I can't think back in history the last time they attacked anybody Iran is a country which is between 1/2 and 2/3 Persian it's got as Aries it's got Kurds it's got Arabs it's got Bellucci all of whom want to break away they don't want a war all-out war with the United States because they could get that in an afternoon I mean they could have my bird my friend the Saudi ambassador if they'd blown him up at some restaurant which I think they're it's sort of suspicious this so-called attack on the United States by the suspicious in the sense that you're not sure the Iranians did it I'm not there there was somebody sent some money over from Iran but the idea that the Ayatollah was behind this no I don't believe it I think they're much more I mean these are people that say you know if they get close to a bomb they're just going to throw it you're going to put it give it to terrorists and they're going to blow up Baltimore or they're gonna blow up Tel Aviv or something like that do I believe that no I don't know I don't so basically I agree with the Obama administration that Joint Chiefs now the Panetta and the Defense Department that the United States they have not made a decision over there in Iran I think to put together a bomb there's no doubt I mean once I read my physics book and under how you put together a uranium bomb you have knowledge of it that increases if you're working on nuclear power that's undeniable but I don't think we want a war with Iran well not so the risk would be they get a bomb they are now untouchable they can now dominate the region I mean they're intelligent dominate the region I think North Korea is untouchable well North Korea has done with their palm but they've kept their people in subjection Chuck okay just watch hey Ron what so but let me put the argument you get to Ron you give them the nuclear I'm not going to give them anything go ahead you permit them to get that you you you you forbear to prevent them from getting a nuclear weapon you permit them to dominate the region I'm giving you the argument remenham to dominate the region you put them in a position to blackmail blackmail Western Europe with regard to oil and we've got this guy Ahmed Jinnah John who has said a couple times at least a couple times of which I'm aware that he wants to drive Israel into the center and you've got a population small country is real three correctly placed correctly so to speak place nuclear weapons and you've got a second Holocaust and all of that on top of which who knows what they can hand off to terrorists there's your danger well let's start first akhmad any god is got an awful lot of Baghdad Bob in him he is a BS sir he is out of favor with the Ayatollah he was just about on the verge of impeachment he does not control the military and he's leaving office in the middle of next year this guy is frightens the Americans oh he did have a holocaust conference that featured David Duke okay we're frightened of this the United States of America of Eisenhower and Reagan all right let's I don't believe Iran wants the bomb I think they want the capability to build a bomb but I don't think they want it for this reason they get one Turks get one the Saudis get one the Egyptians get one and they are Persian and they are Shia in a Sunni Arab world they get no new security they're going to intimidate the Israelis are you kidding they got its Raley's got 200 to 300 atom bombs if somebody's in exist central threat to somebody right now it's Israel is an existential threat to Iran they're the ones flying planes out to gibralta testing them flying them toward Greece they're the ones that are everyday in the news that who are thinking we can't take this we're gonna attack them first I think the Iranians but they're gonna get an atom bomb and um what are they gonna tell us to do get out of the Gulf yeah and then we say no and and what do they do things get a little sense things get a little tense and the balls in your court kaerun all right listen on Israel the United States of America you're not you don't you know I mean I mean you're not comparing Israel with your I mean Britain has had nuclear weapons Francis had nobody calls them an existential threat so your point is let the Saudis let the Israelis don't let it I don't here's what I would do first I would tell the Iranians and I'm sure we have look we've got first they've got the at Natanz and Fordow and all these places all these things are under IAEA observation by cameras with inspections there and they're under seal and you would tell this is all the enriched uranium they got it to 5% for the for the plant and they do it for 20% because we wouldn't send them the medical the 20% that you need for medical mean and I've benefitted from nuclear medicine medicine as a matter of fact so we wouldn't send them 20% what I tell them is we got this all under lock and key you guys open that out and you take it out and anywhere we find that you you've used these centrifuges to enrich it beyond beyond 20% and there's only one purpose for that you're building for a bomb I think then you have to make a and you're gonna rely on the IAEA the Foundation's - yeah he's taking a harder line than the Joint Chiefs right now they got this Japanese fella in there who I think is very much sort of on the Hawk side and so what I would do is is I would tell the Iranians look and quietly look we know what you got me know where you're moving and if you've crossed these red lines and the only reason you would cross the red line like that is if you're intending to build a bomb then there's going to there's gonna be a fire bell in the night in the West and in the United States I wouldn't tell them what I'm gonna do but if they do that then they've made a decision for to go for a bomb but look these are tough American military officers who have studied this their whole lives they say they haven't made the decision to go for a bomb they haven't with regard to the uranium they have not taken any of this uranium out to enrich it to 90% if they do I think then you've got a you got a far different situation but do I want to go to war with Iran no and why is this our responsibility but so so I've got it now you're not saying oh let him have a bomb you're not saying that you're saying quietly using our using diplomacy and relying on our strength in the background set up the red lines and let them know where they are I think they've been set up and I think they know where they are okay but the problem with what here is is the Israelis now the Israelis are fearful that Iran will and is developing a capability which could translate down the road into building a bomb and there's no doubt that is true and they want but they can't take out all these plants and there's an element of absurdity to bombing plants where the IAEA inspectors have all the uranium under seal and so I think the Israelis are in the hellish situation what they want to do I think is make an attempt or get to making some kind of attempt get the United States which could do the job get the United States to do a shock and awe on Iran like we did on Iraq and us fight that war but our guys think correctly I think that's not in the interest of the United States because that whole place that whole region could go up in a Sunni Shia battle of all against all and Americans could be killed in Lebanon by Hezbollah they could be killed in Afghanistan Iranians so aren't our people are looking out for our interests and the Israelis are looking out for their interest and the point here is unlike what Governor Romney said the interest of Israel are here and the in the united states are here and that is the problem you're getting with netanyahu coming here to talk to obama and i happen on this one to agree with the Joint Chiefs and Panetta and President Obama if he's reluctant to take us to war okay the Israel not an endorsement Israel Israel is and should be an ally but they have their interests and we have ours and they do not always coincide exactly alright get you in trouble if you make a statement like that coming up Patrick J Buchanan that's exactly right okay I mean if the Israelis haven't they have their own interests in the region they're much more narrower than ours because the United States is remains a world power look you know my uncle fought in North Africa and the Arabs were very very friendly and you have Arabs and Muslims one and a half billion Muslims over 300 million Arabs we have to have as a great power in a world power we want good relations with all of those folks and the American people deeply admire and like Israel you want good relations with them but we have different and broader interests than the Israelis do and often our interests collide and when they do you need people who will stand up for the United States even if it means taken a certain amount of hit hits in American society read Washington's farewell address it's right in the air Peter I'm trying to segment five the loyalists this book suicide of a superpower cost you a job MSNBC president Phil Griffin quote I don't think the ideas Buchan and put forth in suicide of a superpower are appropriate for the national dialogue much less on MSNBC close quote why him why are you putting these ideas on the air then Peter NBC created the market opening question does he really believe that or is MSNBC just engaging in niche marketing and repositioning themselves to the left you know the truth well truth is I had a very good ten years see folks hi friends in front of camera and behind the camera I knew this book would be controversial and the fact that it caused that it caused the breach or caused my departure from MSNBC I'll let folks decide whether that says something about my book or something about MSNBC describe the television set that HR Haldeman had built for his office the oldest you know what I'm talking about Ryan so that was herb Klein 23 they would say I thought it was the whole you know he got it from LBJ oh really yeah LBJ the gergan had it when I was there go ahead Jurgen Jurgen had it in his office when I was there that does not surprise me - okay - up to our little screens and one big one so that the White House could monitor all three evening newscasts at the same time well here's the thing I think it was it was LBJ's and he went to herb Klein and this one was it was a piece of cabinet work very large cabinet work and you hit a clicker and these doors opened up and they were 336 inch television sets on all three networks at one time and you could click from one to another to another to see which one LBJ didn't like at that particular time but everybody marveled they would go in and look at herb saying I did not know it wound up with Jurgen but I I should have anticipated that but the point is in those days which is not all that long ago right all you needed was three screens to keep up with the electronic media today 500 channels talk radio 20 April 24 hour which media environment did you prefer which was fairer which was better at informing the American people I well since I wrote the Agnew speech attacking the three networks we can't go with that model and I think I think 24 hour cable has some real problems attendant to it but I think it's better in the sense that folks can get I mean what they want much more quickly and when you got only a half hour of news and I don't know how much the mean I noticed in the Nixon Nixon administration certainly I mean they picked and chose what they wanted to put on the air and you felt like these people are controlling the communication devices by which we speak to the American people and the nation they are standing on our windpipe and when Nixon's tried to win their end the Vietnam War like that November 3rd speech and all three of them start trashing it as soon as it's over and tried out Averell Harriman to trash it that was the reason I said look we got to attack we have to attack these people because they control how we are seen by the American people and they don't like us mental experiment Rush Limbaugh exists beginning in 1970 how's history different oh I think talk radio is a I think talk radio has been an extraordinary asset of the American conservative movement and the American right because it is competitive and what it showed one thing it showed was that conservative opinion and thought and ideas were desired by an enormous number of Americans and folks driving in cars and folks driving on the trucks on highways they voted for these conservative you go down list a hundred and top talkers it might be a couple liberals in there but only a couple there's only a couple in these the big ones you know get brush in there you get Hannity in there get lower in there and all the others and they're very conservative and I think this has really become a real outlet for conservative ideas and issues but I do think this these breaking it down into the and MSNBC versus Fox thing reflects what's in that book which is the division polarization and the divorce and separation of Americans from Americans on issue after issue after issue in a religious cultural moral ethnic I mean take a look a media's vulcanized as is the country well it is and it also it's I mean you can go I mean I remember you know erase this back when I was growing up was Bull Connor you know you know putting the fire hoses on folks now you can hear that comment throw a nod about anybody on the aired on cable TV panels just throw it well he's a racist he's a racist Papp you can and the man your MSNBC colleague Chris Matthews like us a presidential speechwriter only his man was Jimmy Carter said on the air I miss Pat already and Mathews went on to say that there are two Pat Buchanan's quote one highly wonderful and positive the other well that's the one that gets him into trouble so here's the question why is always picking a fight there's a lot of what you could say that if you just softened the tone you took out a barb you left out the the applause line at the end you could make the same argument mm-hmm and carry more people with you well I think we I don't know about that but I do know this if you if in this day and age if you're not called some names and you've been in journalism as long as I have and you probably haven't said anything very much worthwhile in my judgment I mean because of the nature and character where the country is going when they what on all these terms racist sexist homophobic they all say they're all the same thing they're synonyms for heretic and what I am is a heretic to the conventional wisdom as it moves further and further left and you more and more outside things and that mean my views in that book many of them would not even have been controversial had they been written a while ago within the Democratic Party John Kennedy could all read all this they sure I mean in but I think the country is moving this way and I don't like where it's gone and I think the what I've said in that book I wouldn't take back a single word and the people that don't like the book they have not told me exactly what they don't like I said listen of course we could read ak something if you guys like in the play paperback but they won't tell me the paragraph they don't like that title end of white America or death end of white America what is the problem with that chapter title but you got it from the Atlantic or from some magazine cover of the Atlantic magazine you got all these yet all these columnist saying what isn't gonna be great in 2042 when when the European or white populations in a minority and I asked myself I wait a minute when people look like me are in a minority we're gonna be a better country why Chris Matthews again quote to Pat the world can never be better than the one he grew up in as a young boy Blessed Sacrament church and grade school Gonzaga High School Georgetown University no country will ever be better than the United States of America of the 1950's close quote well I think the I think America as I said in the Eisenhower Kennedy era was a good country a great country the first country and the world we had one World War two we were leading the world in the Cold War it was a united country in in many ways post 1960 we have never really gotten that back and what that book says is I've come to a conclusion we ain't never going to get back the unity and the cohesion and the in the sense of one nation one people under God that we have this so that that's my final question for you fat suicide of a superpower when it comes right down to it do you see this as a call to action or a lament well if you're dealing with the political realm like trade I mean you could solve and we talked off-camera we can saw you and I could solve the social security problem we could get a liberal fellow right here and we could all get together and solve it in an afternoon I can solve the the problem manufacturing and trade and all those things I think the answers are in there but if you're talking about the disintegration of a society it's breakdown morally culturally politically not politically morally culturally socially I would happen to I come to think of it I would add politically I think as I said you need a you need a st. Paul you don't need a Ronald Reagan and I think that we've moved beyond them and take a look at this world I got a chapter in there of 18,000 words about a disintegrating world along the lines first of ethnicity and race and secondly of religious fundamentalism Chris Matthews one final time loyalty defines Pat Buchanan so I'm gonna start something and let you finish it then out spake brave Horatio Horatius the captain of the gate to every man upon this earth death cometh sooner late over you past now and how can man die better than facing fearful odds for the temples of his father's and the ashes of his gods Patrick J Buchanan where that came from oh I heard you I knew you you love it lays that wrote it wrong much lonely yeah Patrick J Buchanan thanks for fixing me tearful odds suicide of a superpower thanks time you've improved dramatically since you were an intern freedom for uncommon knowledge I'm Peter Robinson you

Channel: Hoover Institution

Views: 1,428,143

Keywords: HooverInstitutionUK, superpower, decline, United States, politics

Id: zUClM5hOZb4

Length: 60min 41sec (3641 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 24 2012