Panel Discussion - Zaha Hadid Beyond Boundaries, Art and Design

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con con applause o de la Kritika del público mundial e otros muchos premios caparison a la presentación carro en no voy a new mera pero sobre todo y por todos ha ha ha d es una gran artista es una gran de Senado rakia Damasus architect ah this is cell ESO sido el el concepto que no se de Bay Aliquippa a poor oppressed tampoco Alchemist REO Kenny satyr sino que se devalues fernandel Galliano que como Moo eCos muy cerca no collabora door refresh see in do lago de las diferentes exposición s can yatra sonya and septiembre estan haciendo aqui me comment o desde el principio s fundamental l present our Asafa s asahi's otra Carrodus aha poco conocida y es la que realmente apoyo porta todo su trabajo de tectonic o creo que es la primera vez que se hacen una exposición donde 7 las pueden ver las pinturas che pasado y r en sus primeros San Jose no Sonia Sesenta setenta ochenta y su concepción de lo que es la costura traverse dell'arte del dicenio-- Kenny a Kenny lady Bo le Devo lo primero que fue la primera idea de realizar Oona's position sobre la kenny normani yo nos vemos Constanta mente en el pati the gray bundle yeah he's done this a on the sequester muchas es que lo ho selling a la luz a traverse disposition s daily bro silly artículos Kenny is Commissario screech or a Colorado in in different a seminary or an asado in a New York University in a new School of Social Research he colaborate ambien come really cuz London s Eskimo the independent the Telegraph and The Observer he really thought ambien authorized precision SS del Pinterest architectonic Odessa ha ha d unos SE como yo in ivory press Carroll mentally they whoa totaku studies ven aqui me excellent equipo see me keepo i will press no sería said he only there for the sacramento career con el equipo de ha ha d Sahadi tiene un equipo introduced supratip l partner case Patrick Schumacher Patricia maca a socio the Sahadi architect or funded or Tamiko director del design research laboratory s la mano the rich c'est la mano confronted a tavola sobre c architectonic as the Sahadi Patrick thank you very much to be today here it a minister can also trust Norman Norman Foster okay they must deserve amigo MCC messiahs the Saha architect Oh funded Ori Presidente Foster and partners either alizarin architecture ah muy different Asahi's dealing in common like Celine SIA t en como la termination tiene UN como la furiosa docile alerta tienen la eighth-inning in comme une ligne or me Eleanor mathematical Oh si de illa enorme excelencia the area you know start nunca contentos con lo que hace la constantly said he satisfaccion i will say that if you have something in common both of you is the in satisfaction with everything you do so first on telly the question question mark and and when the teams like Sahadi team of Forrester team or ivory - we always have them mainly them that for me are both models to follow in every step is the question constantly the question and always to see the things that the others we cannot see so they are the little details the small details who make the global they go help you or what what can be conveyed to the others so with this I said myself and I did my my welcome to Saha and thank you so much for for your collaboration and your an attempt to to be here today I want also to thank your team that has been absolutely amazing with ivory pristine so this exhibition of course is due to to Saha to Patrick and but the everyday two to two together a result that we have here is due to the ivory press team and the Sahara D team so thank you very much to both teens and I give my my word to to twist Fernando Galliano who is going to moderate the table with Patrick with Kenny with Norman Anza well thank you Elena Thank You Sasha for bringing here once once more is the fourth year this opening of the architectural year in Madrid this time with Dame Zaha did in in her representation beyond boundaries as you said as an artist I think it's a great privilege to be surrounded by works from their 70s and the 80s when Saha was submitted to architects and and then very contemporary things that you'll be able to see when you can tour the exhibition of course I will try to make this a conversation so Saha Haditha has had also a relationship with Spain starting with 1992 and she offers some drawings for Madrid and she that she has now extended for this exhibition and and and has built in Saragosa suddenly not completely in in Seville and has had many projects and relations to Spain so I would like to escort this this multiple conversation by asking Saha on one hand how do you feel about this presentation of your work as an artist and secondly if if you may do give us a few words about your relationship with Spain unfortunately actually managed with Spain goes long before long before I came in the 90s it was my first well my not first but let's say second port in Europe our 7 years old when I went to to come to Madrid and then went to and the ricean called that was I think that chip Takada bombers bobbly was maybe very influential in terms of also I want to see all the job seasoned and both fights and everything yeah I mean nothing is this is a kind of very in essay this exhibition is American has a very skewed were view of the work you know because I think that every pair of those drawings comes with with a whole bunch of other work which is you know because we in determine we didn't build we went out of our way to elaborate every aspect of the project so the way everybody had a plan sections people people kind of sometimes think we just did like a fantasies and eventually the fantasies through the share will of God became a building it wasn't like that no not doing if ancestors but architectural and I mean I'm saying is that that they came together with all these other drawings so they are I mean of course they were done that they should be seen also as a composition or as a projection on their arm but they were always came as part of a very large let's say amount of work which was done a normative between brackets way so Nolan perhaps you can extend up on that when you see all these paintings and and drawings from the beginning of her career when she was a paper act exactly because he wanted to build and she managed to do it in the end do you have to have an artistic integrity that may allow us to call her an artist or not I don't think she has a choice if we call her an artist she's an artist whatever it is I think that the bad news is that is that it was for Zaha difficult to to start to get a footing that's true I think of many architects and very true of Zahra and I think that her extraordinary success and and awesome reputation was preceded by by this painful period the good news is that it produced extraordinary works of which I think have which you can trace I mean for me there is a sort of seamless continuity between the earliest works and the latest works here from as you say the 70s the 80s through to today and and I really empathize with Zaha when she makes the point that the really behind any image or artifact or model there's there's a tremendous effort and it's for me the analogy is the iceberg we only see the tip we don't see the total process and and I think that the of the risk of offending you the true artist is like the two sportsmen I mean I have a personal passion for cross-country skiing and and sometimes I see a world-class athlete a cross-country skier and it just makes it look so easy you know the guy just dances up the hills 45 degrees and it makes it look effortless of course what you don't see the long training programs and if you if you touch an activity like that personally then you know what lies behind the surface you know the incredible amount of hard work perspiration that goes behind it so when Zaha makes the point that in a way what you're seeing is is is really only part of a wider process then then that's absolutely true and I think that makes the work that we see here all the more impressive so Kenny all these things some cedar how did you conceive the exhibition the things you do not make me laugh Kenny's gonna okay just be quiet this is my said when I hear Saha say something to the effect that that she's not an artist and then it kind of makes me cringe I thought maybe would take a little more time before she got to the point where she said that none of this is art but really my interest is in the non-hierarchical way with which the studio practices and when Norman speaks about a cross-country skier anything done with artistry and exceptionally well is art in I mean the greatest of anything that people are incredibly passionate about and if you look for instance that this piece behind us it has as its underpinning a jumping-off point in architectural concept it's a master plan for it's a topographical view of a master plan for a project in Turkey in the bus on the asian side but when you look at something like this in and of itself it's its aesthetic and it defies the functionality of a model or a rendering and it becomes something completely different and if you look at the stalactites piece in the main gallery you can call it a pipe or you can call it a non art but it is what it is and I think it speaks for itself and for me it's plainly squarely art and that's where my interest lies so butter cut how does one work with an owner at least I mean having been a partner of 'his for such a long time I think the the fact that that has denying to be an artist makes a lot of sense and needs to be understood as a cleared statement that she sees her career within the discourse of architectural design which i think is has severed out from the art world precisely because the criteria successor in the end rather different but what the art world is and the art system is in fact a platform of freewheeling experimentation where things don't have to perform yet don't have to function is in fact the rejection of instrumentality but and professional artists internalize that and they're just pure engines of proliferation of mutation but I think what the art world is also used for is by other professions like industrial designers architects filmmakers advertisers the mass media early internet research appears as internet our early reproduction was through the art market through exhibitions through through through collectors through but we were clear from the very beginning and this still continues today with some of our experiments which are not performing yet young architects who trying out new computational processes new fabrication processes which don't stand up yet in a competitive high performance environment they need the art system and so so so I think but we know when we enter the art system as a kind of early nor freewheeling research auermann mental space is back into the profession we want to these are just stepping stones and developing a repertoire and expertise these are our flexing our muscles in the end to compete with people like normal and and the real world architecture and it takes time and I think it's not only architects designers of all kinds of doing and that's why is it significant not to be mistaken for an artist that this is just what wants to be you just remain pure provocation pure beauty pure stimulation which is also s and we using professional artists for inspiration stimulation but they never take responsibility they never take charge of a piece of real life which we want to so I think very significant statement and but it's a report not so that we need the art world still to this day because some of these pieces we showing here they're unviable as products on the market unless they come with this manifesto existence this extruder an exuberant costs that don't work so so that sort of is brilliant for that's actually for me the societal function of art Thank You Patrick and for a superficial observer in your career you start with this Jack shapes that come from constructivism suprematism and then you go to the more free-flowing shapes of your last career but the same time Norman has expressed or Hospital stressed the consistency of your work from the beginning the last worse than we're seeing here do you see a turning point or or or do you also contemplate you work as a continuity no I do see it as a continuum because I mean I think that what was interesting the graphic representation of their handiwork like to all the paintings impacted enormous Lee on what happened nature in terms of development of the work if I take I mean maybe doesn't relate to current work now but let's say if I said it's none twenty thirty years ago or maybe ten years ago so this was done as a projection we we focus a lot of time on how we look at the idea of like an imaginary world and this case was like as I say the ground and and how maybe the grounds of the ground is is warped and it took maybe ten years for that to be interpreted as a as a project so in a way the landscape in which the buildings rest on eventually became the project which we were researching which was the honey of typography and landscape it came from typography and and and the early work came from the cosmos so as video as really as a small not literally the column as suprematism was about you know fragments floating and space but of course not we know that buildings not yet can float that we had to do a lot of work on on structure you know and how they and if you want to ground them very likely that was settlement to how you can you can land in a very light way to the ground and therefore the relation of structure released maybe some spaces and I think then so from the beginning even in the peak the idea of fluidity within the beams of the peak although they were kind of very edgy was like they have fragments of the of the they were fragments of necessay the mountain or the rock or diverges the perc transferred from the fragment to the real topography so so I think that there was a the fluidity in the beginning because of fragmentation fragmentation also implied the nonlinear processes and and I think that they're not they don't look the same but they are very similar intentions so all the let's say the way in the drawings were set up where the way predicting the city was very fluid if you look at all of them never seamless the side the way the building appears three four times the landscape rapid himself these became more of the building than the actual projection so there was a I think there was a link between that period of course it what what change and who moved from the plain as in plain or lines to space and I think that was the maybe the big shift the shift from planar to a kind of more complexity and spatial organized or structures yeah it before it was you know a series of blends maybe colliding or juxtaposed or crossing or forming spaceman in and I think that the self two planes crossing and became one one one space encompassing that that space computer toy help you to not just this modeling eventually yes at not in the beginning coming I resisted computing for a long time and not I I didn't really see I must say they I had at the time knew the value of doing these complex projections so other they were very important that and I still think they're armed and I think that you can't I think computing allowed us to achieve complexity and and on also fabrication and and having it was a it's a very important and especially the interest in in geometry you know which I mean I'm I'm in my second year I was a student of criss cross and Jeremy Dixon and my the biggest critic they had of my work is that I was obsessed with geometry so geometry yeah you know and at the time and it was interesting that in this was in like in the mid seventies if we hadn't and not know exactly what I was doing the student I mean now where we were trying things out we you know and and it's weird that were 35 years later some of the themes reappeared you know and reappear now but you know then they were very primitive I mean the way they were done and and so yeah I think that that was that I mean I can I know the moments when the work shifted it was definitely 20 I mean let's say the biggest ship was 20 years ago when we were looking at very large-scale projects for the Hama development in Cologne and that was the beginning when we looked at land mass and that was a thing of varium land mass before that was much more to do with compositional like you know Russian you know composition and and flirtation and maybe abstraction abstractly was very important and such a move away from abstraction to to abstracting the landscape because they they're not literal Mountain it's a kind of an abstraction of of what first he thought it was more landscape and the terrain became more like you know well landscape then went and to kind of see life or water or liquid or you know I mean you know I talked about ten years about you know liquid space but nobody hundred seven uh and the office anyway no we did not it took 10 years world maybe us to capture what it means to have a liquid space if it was just a statement and you know paddock was saying it's you know what is that you know whatever so I think they took a long time to interpret all these these kind of things into I mean many of us but as interesting is that many of the sketches took maybe ten years to first few years to interpret the sketch into what could become a diagram and then the diagram to become a workable diagram from project and then it becomes an architecture so these things I think if one sees the genesis of every move one they took a long time so you said that at the a particular Association you were considered to be obsessed with geometry no not not at the time when I became a student of nature near career which I was and an RAM and amia when I was a second year I mean how was Eno and I was interesting that now the whole they're gonna fractal geometry I mean you know as in because if computing is very well researched I said then that was an interesting moment historically as you know that was the kind of rejection of architecture you know anyway thought I mean I was in my first year at they a we were not allowed to design you know we were only allowed to sweep warehouses or go into a funny bus which has inflatables design design was bad then as you know emerged historicism and rationalism and pursue Mormonism I mean not at the same time and they converged you know prior to 75 they were very separate and and after 75 they could somehow kind of their ambitions gone against modernism converged so they have a common enemy so they all became it was funny in the venice biennale bumping into these people i haven't seen for 35 years and last time I saw them I was a student and I did not recognize them Emira surname recognizes me mad it was weird was a very similar moment you know as the Revenge of the rats easy they returned I'm always aware of of their my return so I've always thought you know it's the scariest thing for me you know because I think I mean I personally suffered where many of us suffered because we were dismissed as some sort of strange people because of that moment their services the new classicist moment the but modernists you know over decorative non period you know all of that and and right now it's resurfacing as a kind of Puritan puritanical but I think they are the same except they have no decoration so so I think I came from that moment of their a where you know it took us five years to build up formal repertoire without being seen as kind of decadent or corrupt before engaging in formal research it was very it was very the the the lies are were very defined you know what you can and what you can't do you know then I think things change and everybody can do what they like and it's it was very nice and I think we have to be in a very critical situation now I mean you know I said to someone the other day that we are in a way too tolerant of other things what is nice I we have to be generous to other people who don't agree with but also I mean I'm I mean Taurus and a not necessarily a good way we cannot I mean I'm very critical of myself you know have the office you know people think I don't like anything and it's true I don't like you know and it's not because I don't like it today and I like it tomorrow at my office the obvious people a novice they're always showing me something and I say I don't like it and they and I don't want to elaborate why I don't like it just I don't think it's right for example and they think by showing to me every day morning lunch and evening but I'll eventually be seduced and liked it and I and I'm two months later I still don't like it or three months later and they don't believe me they're absolutely categorically they think I'm you know at least my students believe me when I said I wanted you know they they will try again and go change it or whatever more your students that your office well my office people are very spoiled by now you know they've been with me for a long time I should from being extremely nice to being upset you're horrible so like any children they get very confused they don't know we're you know some which which nothing I'm not nice today but you know by tomorrow I'll be fine you know because I'm taking them out for lunch oh I'm going out for dinner and I'm nothing it's I've recovered from their misbehavior no it's not now turning to your formal research and your interest in geometry of course all the ORAC exam for instance banana all the interested in geometry in a different way but geometry also is part of your factors I wasn't understand geometry they only they thought they were yes because I drew the geometric patterns and the time Jeremy Nixon thought that was really a anyway Jeremy can accept that I was an actress between rehearsals because I came to they're here all dressed up and you know feathers or their furs or whatever they don't they thought you know that was yes the status in your all over the kind of more complex geometries and the work you're doing with the specialists special modeling group which serves on some of the projects is that something you pushing or you trying to bring into most projects I think that there are always parallel in explorations and I think that some projects lend themselves to to that approach but I think that there are parallel rigors and disciplines behind any of the projects and the the and it's very it's easy to be deceived by an apparently voluptuous form which looks as though it's it's an aberration I think that the I remember the reaction at the time that and it's many many years ago that we did with his favor which has a completely organic facade that is a series of curves but it actually follows a medieval Street pattern that is meandering and is not based on a rectangular grid that at the time we'd been tight casters living with the 90-degree angle so was regarded as something as a as a radical change I never saw it that way and I think that the critics can analyze as I'm sure they will do as our house work and see differences between this building and that building and interpreted as a change of direction I think for me there's a very strong personality that flows through all the works here and that in a way integrates them all although I'm sure you can take elements in isolation and say ah you know Tsar has changed directional I don't myself see it like that you tell your people in the offices you don't like something you use your visual equity so we are making a sort of a very very compact in the culture of the office well an education as well it's changed so much but if I say I like it before I can sketch it and they would understand the sketch well now if I sketch it they don't understand I'm so doing it's like a foreign language that seriously well maybe Patrick understands well some of them and understand me intuitively but unless I'm explaining them literally what I'm talking about and in another language I think that yeah I mean if I do do something they don't know whether that's do as little or as like I'm doing a diagram I'm curious I mean how do you view drawing the such sketching is that are you is that important - very important are you critical the newer generations of Architects or perhaps less dependent or they can't do it anymore there is like in the same way they can't write a sentence they can't do it well I I think they have another skill I mean some of them are very they say the tannest years one of computing skills I think it's equivalent could always be equivalent to sketching because they have such a they have a very developed skill and three-dimensional they can do things very well through dimensioning but but I mean in the same way when people is to resolve space by cutting card and making models and main models that skill is also gone so I think they have a less of an understanding of let's say plan and section traditional way of doing work because they don't think about it this way and you know I I'm not saying I'm guilty I I really pushed for a long time that people see things in three dimensions so but now the only seen in three dimensions and when they cut a section a horizontal section becomes a model plan and they got a vertical section become the section but they don't it's not the same way and the way they resolved space but I know some of the people Oh an amazing skill there are it is very much like people doing very elaborate sketches but it's not common and that's why I think in schools now they have to start very early to learn all the modeling and computing techniques because without it they wait till they're their third fourth year there for three years they just you know doesn't you know I mean we've got favor of graphic skills to read we I think it's very difficult because at the time the people the amount of time people spend on stuff has changed you know I mean nobody's gonna sit like like what you used to do ink for hours and you know Rob and and I mean I like that I mean I found inking a fantastic thing I love it and I like the the product it's much much more transparent that came with a hall you can do layering much better it's very different in computing there's much more opaque but I I this girl has vanished you know almost vanish I mean and mainly in some schools are still there but he just I can't see them do it and they don't have patience anymore do you yourself still draw not so much no I mean I would like I would like to do it but I mean you can't even find them the equipment you know anymore Mike repeat over officer summers a message I mean I was trying to put find the word for a pity grab and they couldn't find it in their hand because there doesn't exist they call it the rapper or something I mean and you can't find trace and you can't find you know wheel for years you know had every possible instrument you know inking pens paragraphs you know technique of erasing rubbing whatever and and all that kaput disappeared in less than 20 years and another thing he can repeat it you can you can I am painting is another thing but entrepreneurship then learning fundamental skills it's rare to even I think I can still draw you know I'm gonna can do what's you free ham and that precision of LA and inking which it required a very steady hand and precision I mean Patrick when he first came to the office I used to have a a turtle hysteria about lions crossing so I assumed they would would not let me have a red pen and pencil because red pencil shows on a print they would help me hand me in a blue pencil so I can go around and circle every crossing line you know I mean it was and but I actually think that it gave you time to think about what you drew I mean I don't have a computing skills so I can't say I mean but I know that there are others who do have convening skill which are very heightened and they can do things not the same but similar to what one can do and we were great interest in your hand possible I go mad that would be my I mean if anybody wanted to torture me they take away a pen or a pencil and that would be the ultimate torture that I could imagine yes and and I agree with with Zaha totally I think that the immersion in the craft of drawing is it's very important I mean this is this event is about Saha so I don't want to in as it were indulge in in in things which are closer to my heart personally but I find that the studio is in part producing buildings and is also an educational establishment because we have to re-educate anybody the brightest students and we have the greatest people in the world like Zaha does the best of the of the young graduates from every Academy around the world but but it's a period of of re-education and and there are two model shops there are professional model makers and the remodel shops where architects make models and if they don't make them they don't survive and and the the brightest sparks in Silicon Valley I tell you don't show them a PowerPoint show them a model models are interestingly I remember a point in time when somebody said as we invested more and more literally millions into computing power the days of the model shop are numbered the model shop has grown like crazy it's grown exponentially alongside the development of computing skills we have parallel investments in both and they're both research tools and the one without the other forget it and I always said the problem with architects the problem with us as a profession is we don't understand space if you want to understand space go into the model shop sit next to the model maker the model makers frequently are doing more designing than the younger architects they're the greatest interpreters they're the artists if you like craftsmen the lines blurred we don't patrick managed to but we were we were absolutely mesmerized by your your room at the Venice Biennale this year and it was the best everybody was like couldn't move seeing the models that your people your team under your leadership with Patrick have created with paper they were absolutely awesome so you say we select mist it was it was the real thing of you're the greatest now we still do a lot of reliefs we still make models I I agree with Norman I actually think he can't understand space if you don't make models what was in which was different now that you know let's say 20 years ago behind especially American students and sometimes Spanish students who can both draw and make models when they started in the office they was what they did they made models and drawings and then there were great skills they've became designers you know and they worked on design and this I mean we used to make a module to result as like doing a sketch it was done through the model process and I think now it's the these expertise are very separated so now I do make sure that when I have interns in the summer during the year that's what they do they have to learn how to make drawings and they have to make models because it's good for their on development and also you know they you don't have to worry about time because they have to they can spend three months making one single model and we spent you know the whole summer they doing one during this one and when I had my son and in London literally the whole summer well not the only one but one next door as well but you know they we had to first do it in line drawing it had to be in segments and then they are pasted together and then they are transferred or inked and so it just took her and I think that time he spent looking at something you also have ideas he's not like you know blanked hard like a robot so I think it was a very important process but I do i do see I mean I teach in Vienna and sometimes in the States I'm twist they twisted my arm to do Yale we've hosted chair like you Lena and I create Bob Stern almost kind of tied me to the chair anyway and you know you see you see the these very young kids fresh some of them on Vienna out of school because I do a vertical studio just beginning to learn and by the time they're fifth here they are because I didn't have them for five years now for three years incredible skills you know and that it's really and they're also a skill and designers is incredible so it's but when you said that Patrick Alex I know that models from do you from the office it means that you have a source model making no Patrick no whatever there is there he needs space so he hires another twenty people and puts him in that room where it had models all our paintings or you know so it's only a temporary exile Bogner he doesn't like Manos no in terms of the sketching and particular types of sketches which Taha'a doing there is this enormous advantage in these the level of abstraction and let's say core the productive ambiguity just searching a browsing through geometry through through figuration through its searching for new stimuli in terms of what could be translated into space it's a kind of graphic space and particularly earlier Korea of course it was very important to break through where you didn't know yet what it should become all you knew that it had wanted to be more complex more layered more rich and perhaps more versatile and fluid and adaptive to contexts but so when you create these kind of graphic constructs you wouldn't know which line would become an a wall the roof overhang a step in in in the landscape or just an implied kind of temporary construction line so so I think that was very important and also some of the early paintings who had this nature where some of the moves like put projective perspectival distortion applied to the geometry or even fish eye perspective a distortion but the fragments are captured by a kind of force field project the force field became important the introduction of gradients coloration which modulates and the blurring of boundaries these became features at the time we didn't know or they the taking little of the fluidity of the curvature which is the rapid hand movement which meant in the end mmm curves which are not to be translated into arcs and stables ready compositions but remain kind or fluid which became later on the spline used the fish fish it's my ship building curves so I think this could have not happened outside of that domain of exploration which was not yet instrumental which was not yet clear with its purpose and but then as a historical maturing of this work and the process of translation occurs need to spend and invest in translating that and making these put rationalizing and making instrumentalizing these moves and I think these moves I have been instrumentalized because we have a higher level of complexity in our work versatility of adapting to contextual conditions in context of a complex with multiple direction those multiple grains so we have multiple affiliations as our kind of textures and it shows but as we know more what we're doing what I Amazon the role of these exploratory ventures become recede and be more going into direct instrumentalization and I think in terms of the computational tools to gearing up it brought us you didn't start back there but it allowed us to what we've hinted at in these drawings to make that to radicalize it to make that more complex more precise and now it's for us it's impossible to to with a few abstracted lines and a few as a diagram to actually instruct a designer to make the project because it's gonna be in the in in this build up of layers and connections and preparation use as as far as I am hearing Saha you in the beginning you just have an attitude and a world of experimentation with geometry reforms with saves with intersections that become more complex and more complex and more complex but afterwards you see a building at the end of it so you will have to have another process to cut what decorate no I mean I think that in the beginning and mr. junuh we have similar processes everything at the same time so instead we used to do sketches the paintings the relief models the models the inking the line drawings now we do let's say 3-dimensional experimentations whatever all at the same time they're not done or one first and Mexican yeah then nimona done almost simultaneously of course the paintings - some of them were done really as very elaborate sketches you know they were done before the project was in some cases community some you know because if some of them you see that this project appears appears in every part different once I did we were hasta door this house in in Holland so of course you know we were into the we were an office office of options with never could never do one option or two we had to do ten you know sorry 10 options and I as a jerk put them on the grid like ten houses sober not commissioned Rosanna is not good enough for you just to have one house I said no no no I'm not doing your house as well I'm just it's just a graphic presentation I put ten houses because we have ten we had ten options for the yeah so I think that in some of these spendings you see the building appearing each time differently because it because the painting was done at the same time as the project was developed and in the early period we really did not know how it would be so we drew and painted and did models all at the same time what did your relationship with engineers no no no interactivity no I think that my intention with Andreas is what really liberated me you know I think with that that relationship I will not develop the work the way I did I first when I did the Hong Kong the Hong Kong project the peak there was a guy who worked on Hong Kong Shanghai called David Tomlinson and I was doing this competition and they pitted me this guy is a brilliant guy why don't you get him an advice on on the pic competition so that's it okay so he worked with me and then we used to do one project every two years so it wasn't kind of like a so then I was doing this ku'Damm project it was very thin like with the mini stab and he was working with Cecily it was in such a balanced group and I wasn't important enough for so so so so so did not want to work with us so we really left and an MS and it was Hugh Doulton who is to also offer here who called me up and he said you know Peter heard he needed an engineer Peter eyes the human if he helps you as an eye mind I mean Peter was a brilliant engineer and that's how I met Peter right so he came to the office to house of that project and that was really was for me when at the time the most I mean apart from reaching knowing people like Norman or you know album boy a skewer ramen Helia Peter oz was a very influential person in our development because he had he gave us time and he kind of explained to me you know I mean you know I'm not an engineer but I think as an architect you have to have some sort of common sense about how the building should work structurally and I don't I'm not gonna work it out because I don't know they have the know-how but it I have to know basically how it works because it took me hours to work hard triangulation 4 4 4 earthquake and then so the strongest meant I have a building which is the one you'd like up there which had to have four legs and I looked like a TV set or it looked like a chair and one day Peter Roskam and he said well I said well you know he said to me wonder innocent what do you want me to do what do you want to do with this project how would you like to do it I said when I want to skew the structure from here to there and I want that can I transfer a structure and he he said oh yeah and that's how you do it this cue should not be like that should be like whatever like that and he would spend hours with us and not for me was amazing and then and then you know he would send me his young kids from Arabs who you know it was a punishment for both of us for them and for ourselves because they really were kind of shredding their their hands but we've had really I mean very good collaborations with Arabs do with Vera hobbled with Hanif Carra you know meaning I think that that that collaboration has been incredibly rewarding and very citing Antonio should be finishing so yeah why wouldn't you yeah do you want to say no here I was yes just say thank you thank you to all of you to be here today they are as you know Saha has agreed to sign some of the books that they are in the Google store if anybody wants to come and and tow its aha we will have like 15 minutes 20 minutes max I want to thank you Sarah for being so generous with your time and and to be here in Madrid yesterday and today and for sure this exhibition will be a before and after in the exhibition that I've refreshed US every year Thank You Kenny Thank You Patrick [Applause]

Channel: ivorypress

Views: 129,486

Rating: 4.9409208 out of 5

Keywords: Zaha Hadid, Zaha Hadid Architects, Patrik Schumacher, Kenny Schachter, Norman Foster, Sir Norman Foster (Architect), Luis Fernández Galiano, Elena Ochoa Foster, Ivorypress, Panel Discussion, Architecture, Design

Id: 6rtMRwj0DPI

Length: 60min 40sec (3640 seconds)

Published: Tue Jul 02 2013