Our Child First—Then Yours | Todd & Krista Kolstad | EP 428

hello everyone I'm pleased to announce my new tour for 2024 beginning in early February and running through June Tammy and I an assortment of special guests are going to visit 51 cities in the US you can find out more information about this on my website jordanbpeterson.com as well as accessing all relevant ticketing information I'm going to use the tour to walk through some of the ideas I've been working on my forthcoming book out November 2024 we who wrestle with God I'm looking forward to this I'm thrilled to be able to do it again and I'll be pleased to see all of you again soon bye-bye the location that our daughter worked had called and asked if our son could come in to work and it all took off from there and there was nothing in the middle um complete trust and all of a sudden we find out that she had created this world where she works where she's known as a boy [Music] so hi everybody I'm here with Todd and Christa colad today and there are a couple from Northeast Montana who've uh had The Misfortune to have their sleeves caught in the Child Protection Services mall and uh their daughter started making CL names of variant gender identity in 2021 and uh then got tangled in online interactions that led to the arrival of Child Protection Service at the doorstep of the col stads and uh to say things went downhill from there as to say almost nothing I'd highly recommend that you watch this podcast especially if you regard yourself let's say and your family as sort of typical middle class Americans trying to live a quiet and normal life because you need to know what might happen to people who are complacent enough to imagine that such a thing is possible under the circumstances that obtain today this is a cautionary tale and it's a rough one so uh join us and go down the rabbit hole of of State mandated gender affirming care well thank you for flying here and talking to me today I presume we're going to have a difficult conversation we are yes I imagine so so we'll start really at the beginning um you have five children Todd has five children Todd has five children five children okay okay and how long have you guys been married um we've been married seven years yes together about okay yeah now how are your children doing in general um our the oldest daughter is in Canada um she moved away when she was was over the age of 18 um we have a daughter that's in Kalispell area we have a daughter that's in the Navy that's a medic she does fantastic in what she does and then we have a son in that's in Canada that the been with his mother the whole time that that one they've had a lot of problems I think um hopefully he's on track now and then we have our daughter we have a daughter Jennifer that's been with uh me her whole life uh every day went to work I took her with took her to breakfast every day of her life for the first few years she was in school um that kind of relationship took her four-wheeling you know out seeeing nature and probably a super close relationship because of that okay now and it's it's Jennifer's the daughter yes that where where difficulties emerged in 2021 and you were around then yes I okay and so and so what was your view of what was going on with Jennifer in 2020 21 so in 2021 she was just 12 12 and A2 when when the issue started and you know she was a young girl she had kind of come into puberty she had struggled with bullying and stuff her whole since about I came into her life when she was in I think second grade and she'd always been bullied in school so it's something we've always battled um so in 2021 she was about 12 and A2 and people from the church started saying to us you know your daughter is saying that she wants to be called Leo and be referred to as a boy and she's saying that she's your son while she's at church and so we sat down with her and we said hey you know what is this about what's going on here and she said well I I think I think I want to be a boy and we were like okay so we I had a conversation with her and Todd did too you know we had a family conversation about why do you feel this way do you think it's because you've always been bullied do you think it's because you're not in contact with your birth mom and as a girl that would probably be very very um heartbreaking you know the person that loves you the most didn't has never wanted anything to do with you and so we went over trauma and losses and things like that and I was like how about if we go to counseling and you explore this with a counselor because she's not going to listen to her parents you know we don't you know how it is with with younger kids and anyway so I knew she was going to take our advice so we put her in counseling and we thought we were in a different place so we really didn't have any more issues with her saying that she want to be transgender until the day when all of this kicked off yes okay so well so let's delve into that a little bit so Todd you said that you spent a lot of time with Jennifer Whole Life okay and you also both of you pointed out that she she was bullied in school from a young age so so did she have friends at school or was she very few friends okay and do do you did you have any sense of what it was that that was attracting the attention of the bullies yes kind of um because prior to moving back to where we live now the problem started at 12 and it was mostly lying crazy lies so the school we met with their counselors there and they said what the kids are doing to be mean are wrong but she's bringing on herself with her action so she's partly accountable too and where we live now the school is fantastic the account the um principal the the staff is just fantastic and so they would she um she would come home and we find out that kids there told her to kill herself and um the school would require them to write a note saying uh you know apologizing the school apologized and that's how she was treated but she we would check her status every single day find out how every single day went with her we were proactive with the school and things were really good most you know um with her life other than um well so so what do you think was going on with regards to the story she was telling you you you made some mention of of lying that she was doing at school and so what do you think was happening with that it's strange it's it's we wanted that diagnosed it wouldn't just be lying it' be lying about good things and bad things um uh we didn't know where it would come from so our Only Rule with her was you have to tell the truth and we'd explain to her the importance of telling the truth so from the point of how we got here there was never through these years there's never been issues of transgender there hasn't been issues of any of that it's been lying you know that kind of thing and I think with school you know just as as a girl I can say she's always been super super smart like always Straight A's off the chart smarts and I I asked them do you think she could be on the Spectrum somewhere and we're looking at some things going on there but I've never got a DI creative very very creative you see the reason I'm asking about that well partly it's the lies I'm curious about that with regards to like an active Fantasy Life let's say but it's also the case that I believe that the kids who are more likely to be attracted by these gender fluid ideologies are likely to be creative open kids who have in some way have a more fluid identity because they're creative this is attractive to them and you also portrayed your daughter at school at least as a bit of an outsider and so one of the attractions of this gender ideology is that it gives kids who are Outsiders and who are uncertain about their identity you know a way of a way of being and also a way of being outstanding and recognized for something new now the school that she was at in 2021 is that the school you were referring to where you believe they are doing a good job yes so where do you think she picked up these ideas about about gender transition oh that's easy um Tik Tock is one I think there's Predators on there that um lead kids that are more of the um Outsiders into a specific Direction that's a big one and then there's other kids already in that boat that are also seduced by those kind of things so to speak and so she or the church was telling us and her counselors that she's running with a lot of those kind of kids is what we're being told well and we had measures in place like she could she just didn't have free reign of the internet like we had apps on that controlled where she could go and stuff but when she left our house I know she was going to friend's house who don't have those measures in place so she's getting access to you know social media even though it's not in our house she's still getting access to it right and these these friends like did you have any sense of of who they were what they were like we met some of them we tried to help them them there were kids um one of them would walk to a town 15 miles away in the winter without a coat and we gave him a coat we tried to monitor that and um monitor how uh her activities were with them and it's a very tough balancing line with a once they hit 12 to right well the thing is kids of that age they're trying to the task of a child that age really is to stop being a child and to start associating with their peers right and so part of the reason that teenage children are so susceptible to peer pressure is because their job at that age is to become socialized into the world of their peers and that that helps them make the transition from being a dependent child to an independent adult right you go from your parents to your friends with your parents in the background and then hopefully you get through your friends in some ways so that you can become independent and then establish your own family so it the the susceptibility of teenagers to peer pressure is not only normative but also in some ways desirable but the problem is of course that it can go very sideways if the peer group is prone to the sorts of behaviors that won't lead them into a productive and and enjoyable adulthood so yeah so that's a rough situation and and you said you tried to monitor her social media use but there was there's a limit to well there is a limit how much you can do about that too not partly because for all the dangers that are inherent to smartphones and Technology children still have to learn to master it and so you can it's not easy to figure out how to have your teenagers be expert in an electronic world without being exposed to all the catastrophes that come along with it okay so now you said that first of all your church alerted you to the fact that she was toying with a male identity correct so and and you thought in could did you see any changes in the way she was presenting herself that that had she's always been a tomboy never been um my husband owns a a tech company and so she's never been into girly things she's always been in computers and robots and things like that she's never been a girl I see I see oh oh I see and so she had so one of the biggest differences between men and women masculine and feminine temperaments let's say is that men are more reliably interested in things and women are more reliably interested in people but she sounds like she had at least to some degree more male pattern interest say now that's not completely unheard of among women obviously either so the mere fact that that occurs doesn't mean that you're born in the wrong body let's say but you you said she was smart and she's creative and she was interested in what what exactly did you say robots and electronics and with my husband owning a computer company her and a bunch the Tex all kind of raised their children together and you know they would take turns taking them to school and stuff so there were about three or four little girls and their interests were computers and what their dads were doing and taking apart the computer and learning about the computer so again with her being super smart even with us putting measures in place to try and limit her internet activity super smart kid would figure out a way around it you know so we're always trying to have to kind of get around that right okay so now you did sit down with her and you had a conversation about what you had heard at church and what what did she tell you um she started crying she was very very upset and very emotional and she said you know I I just I don't know what to do I I nobody likes me so she came back to nobody really likes me I don't really have any friends so maybe if I'm something different this will help me and yeah yeah well I interviewed this this woman CH Khloe Cole I've heard of yeah yeah well Khloe is a g transitioner and now an activist um trying to stop the early surgical transition mutilation and sterilization of children she had both her breasts removed when she was I think she was 15 some something absolutely awful and she said to me well a couple of things that I thought were interesting the first thing she said is when she was about 12 or 11 or 12 she realized or assumed that when she did finish her journey through puberty that she would have a rather boyish figure and she had fantasized about being built like Kim Kardashian you know extremely curvy and she thought that it it's not going to go that way and I won't make a very good woman and so maybe I would make a better boy which is I suppose something that's within the realm of fantasy for you know young women who are battling with the complexities of puberty but nobody ever told her you know none of the counselors she ever talked to none of the psychologists so-called or the Physicians never told her that that kind of discomfort with that bodily discomfort is very very very common normative even among 12 13y old girls and that virtually everybody grows out of it and that um The Suffering that goes see the other thing happens to girls too when they hit puberty is their levels of negative emotion go up and so that can also confuse them and and your daughter was additionally suffering from the fact and this is a real problem of her unpopularity right and so she's going to be casting around looking for a way of being as a teenager that's going to pull her into the social group right and so you I was just going to say she always wants she's always wanted to be like the pretty Ultra popular girl and I get it I'm a girl too like who doesn't want that when they kid but instead she's always been like the the kid in math club and the kid who goes to math competitions and wins and the kid who you know super super smart so she's always struggled with that we all know cancel culture threatens Free Speech but do you think social media companies are innocent bystanders when they hide your channel from search results for expressing the wrong opinion that is censorship PL and simple nobody should have the right to silence your voice the good news is you can fight back by by using our trusted privacy partner expressvpn the problem with big tech companies is that they censor what you see and track what you do online they track what you're searching for the videos you watch and everything you click they use this data to serve you ads and can match your activity to your true identity using your device's unique IP address when you use expressvpn your identity is masked and anonymized by a secure VPN server that encrypts your data and expressvpn makes it super easy you're protected by just One Tap on your computer or phone to turn it on if you care about free speech like we do it's time to take action and defend your rights what better way to do this than by taking away Tech company's free license to monetize your valuable personal data take back your privacy at expressvpn.com Jordan you'll get an extra 3 months of expressvpn for free by visiting Jordan special link e expressvpn.com Jordan that's EX vpn.com Jordan to protect your data today she'd probably do fine once she got to University yeah right because then she's going to be able to find a niche where those skills and abilities they they'll be people around her that she'll be able to fit right in with and and it's also at that time later where that kind of intelligence and mathematical ability and interest is really going to pay off but that's not necessarily the case in junior high school for example exle okay so you talk to her and she's not she's upset she's crying and she's telling you that you know she's pretty sick of being unpopular and so forth and you take her to a counselor okay and so or you set her up with a counselor and what sort of counselor was that what was qualification church he was the director of the youth group who has some counseling credentials and so we asked him if he would start meeting with her weekly before youth group and talking to her okay and what what was the consequence of that everything was really positive during that whole time but what came out later she said they put a gun to her head which was again one of the crazy lies and she meant it literally so it was mixed and so but there was counselor with someone you trusted and you don't believe that the counselor was someone who tilted her farther down this road not at all I don't think he did at all so you had the conversation with her and then you thought things were essentially going okay do was she still complaining at that time about about not being popular at school mhm she was she was and what grade was she in at at that point seven yeah it started in grade that's a rough grade so yeah yeah okay okay so she sees the counselor for about how long about six or eight months okay weekly M and did you see any changes in her behavior anything like what was thing what were things like at home at that point that's what um it it was so hard to analyed because I drove her to school or to the bus whichever she wanted just a best friend relationship I took her to school picked her up her life was happy uh if something did bad happen she would let me know it right you know she would let me know right away and she was in a hurry to do her kid things get on her Electronics or go see her friends and she had a summer job um life so you felt that things things were good and you believed that the communication channels were open yes and you're watching this I mean they have a very close relationship you're watching this what do you think of the relationship between these two um you know what they they're very close um she's also very close to me cuz I'm the only mother figure she's ever known so she actually calls me mom even though I'm her stepmom and so we were very very close with her and very um open communication definitely okay um so but again you have to remember we also have a child that has behavior problems and has some other attention-seeking behaviors and stuff like that so even though we were close to her and monitoring her and keeping an eye on her she still kind of has this other life over here where she I don't want to say gets in trouble but she makes up stories and she does things then it comes back to our life over here well that's tricky too he because you know you you don't want you actually don't want your children in some ways to share absolutely everything with you when they're teenagers right because they should be parceling off a part of their life that's private yeah I don't mean hidden exactly or secret that isn't what I mean but because they're starting to mature they they should be have a they should have their right to private privacy and their right to explore in that private domain I mean one of the things we do know about the pathway of childhood development is there are some children who act out all the time let's say and they're they often stay in trouble and get in more trouble as they get older and then there's children who never do anything wrong at all and they also get in trouble as they get older they're more likely to be dependent and depressed and anxious then there's the kids in the middle who you know will experiment and and and cause a certain amount of trouble and trying to see where the limits are as teenagers and and so and that does imply that they parse off a bit of a private life but as far as you guys were concerned dur after you had that initial conversation while she was undergoing this counseling things were no worse than they usually were at least and and and some of the signs were good she had activities she was going to school she had a job she had some interests and she was still communicating with both of you absolutely absolutely okay what about her siblings what did they were were any of her siblings around at that time as well she's the last one in the house and so um three of the older girls are are kind of busy with their lives and you know they call maybe once a week or so and she she hasn't spoken to her brother um who's been with a birth mom in probably seven or eight years they just don't have phone contact okay okay so in some ways in your household at this time she was in the position of only child there was correct okay she's the only child in the house okay so now all right so you're going along and there's some problems but they don't sound like they're completely out of the ordinary for you know 13-year-old girl with some with some trouble socializing and so what what's the next event and so well two things what do you think's happening at school like was your school a woke school was it a reasonable school was it still the case that you think that most of the exposure she had to this gender ideology was was online was the did the school play a role in this the school played absolutely no role in that yeah we live in a very very small area um so I often tell people if you Google middle of nowhere United States that town that comes up Glasgow Montana that's where we live and so they're not very woke out there at all and so the school if she had demanded to be called by other names or other pronouns they would have shut it down immediately they wouldn't have they wouldn't have done that okay so this as far as you're concerned this was something that was mostly occurring as a consequence of her of a particular peer group she was associating with and also information that she was obtaining online and you mentioned Tik Tok in particular was there a reason for that specific mention yeah because some of well we had seen a couple of times where we were just blown away because life was perfect at home relationship was perfect and then we would see crazy posts online or through email and then some of the applications that she would go to um on her computer and these were some of the things she was posting and what sort of things was she posting well one time um we were in for example we were in kisel she was in Glasgow and she she posted she's in some kind of game and that her parents would beat her ass was her words and um none of that we we were shocked when we saw that on her phone and she she said I don't know why I do this um I don't know why I see so that was another manifestation of those fantastic fantasies and lies yes ESS right so she's toying with being different a different person online so that's the weird one of the weird things about the online world is because you can be any and we don't know exactly know what this is doing to kids you can be anything you want online right because there's no one there watching you there's and so any story you tell you can get away with any story you tell and you can also monitor the impact of that story right and if you're Desperately Seeking attention then if you come up with a Fantastical story that buys you a lot of sympathy let's say then that's an easy road to walk down so you know I've seen other teenage girls get in trouble in exactly this way do you know and this is a very personal question and you're not obliged to answer it do you know if she was posting do you know if any of the interactions she had online had any sexual component was she posting photographs or anything like that no I've never seen anything like that it was more the the fantasy and the lies like would say that she had a twin brother that her birth mom uh killed and then her birth mom was in prison just crazy things that have never happened you know so it was more fantasy but never never really sexual right and you didn't have any sense that there was like specific Predators after her online did she have like had she gathered around her a community of people that were attending to what she was posting that might have involved some of these more predatory characters she did gather a group of people from the trans community that gathered around her and was telling her you know how Brave she is and how great she is so she did gather that crowd now the crowd where she was saying she was a gang and stuff no not right but but in this other domain she did well that's very interesting form of reinforcement well you see that in the culture at large you know that there's this insistence that these brave people who come out with their true identity are heroes of A Sort right and and part of the problem with that is that well there are confused people who struggle their whole life to come out from what they're hiding behind to reveal who they are let's say but there's plenty of people who are narcissistic as can possibly Be Imagined who use that as a means of obtaining like a false status and and that's certainly I would say something that's the that the Biden Administration has been particularly complicit in producing and so if your daughter is unsure of herself and if she's unpopular and she finds a group of people who are congratulating her on her bravery every time she takes a step in the direction of this revelation of identity you know Cleo told me that after a while too and I I know another girl who is in this situation too is you know after a while after you adopt a new identity like that say as a boy and you gather a bit of a community around you it's pretty damn hard to step backwards right cuz you feel like you're absolutely you feel like you're the the one girl I'm speaking of like she decided that she was a boy and then some of her friends afterward out as a consequence of her influence felt they were boys and then when she decided maybe she wasn't a boy and that was a bad idea one of the things that she found very difficult was back stepping backwards because now she felt guilty that she had enticed other people down this road right so you start to produce these false identities and they take a life of their they take on a life of their own like well like any lie does right right and and then if it's magnified by people in some ways the people online are doing exactly the same thing because they've taken dire steps in the wrong direction and are likely to encourage that in other people exactly right okay so but but all things considered you too weren't unduly concerned you had some concerns about about her popularity and about her storytelling that the teachers are they reporting any particularly um unacceptable Behavior at school during this time yes in that it this wasn't a daily problem um once every month to sometimes two months something would happen we'd hear her version of it so we would write away because we're concerned parents we interacted and the schools there are just very good at interacting with with parents they're they're not woke they're not all that and um but they would say um our daughter's version of that was not accurate she actually instigated it or she caused the confrontation even though what the other kids did was they're in trouble you know they're in trouble but if she's got a part to play in this too right right it's almost like if how can I put this like if I if I keep poking at to and then he snaps at me and then I'm like oh my gosh look what you did it was like that type of behavior that kind of attention seeking victimizing provocativeness yeah however there there was always the sense though and it's simp what you said earlier um there's always a sense that this is going to be a short little battle because her brain's going to develop and she's going to become a very smart girl and I had no doubt this is going to be a very successful young adult you know I never thought so there wasn't never a sense of this is there wasn't such a strong I want to be trans or there was none of that really going on that would have led to so you had confidence in her long-term outcome even absolutely because why absolutely why were you so certain of that because um if just given more time to grow up you know cuz kids had an awkward age yeah she had a lot of attention when she was a kid she was in our stores customers would bring her stuff to animals and she's in it Corporation and people treat her like gold and she grows up and all of a sudden she's at an awkward age glasses braces and all that okay and um with the wrong kids but eventually they'd be good kids and becoming an adult the brain develops and they settle into whatever gender they really are and um so you guys were still thinking that this was just yeah you were prepared to wait it out you'd had lots of children you'd gone through this with many kids already one one one of one of my daughters initially didn't was confused but became an adult and wasn't said boy I can't believe I thought that way when I was younger good thing um uh I didn't make bad decisions you know yes well it's not it's not uncommon and you could imagine too like you've characterized your daughter as somewhat of a tomboy and I think that to some degree was confusing for tomboy forever but they weren't also ever offered the opportunity of presuming that just because they had some aspects of their character that were more masculine that what they that meant was they had to surgically bring themselves into alignment with that right which is very very very very bad idea okay so all right so you're going along with this situation and and you have some concerns but you believe they'll reconcile themselves in the long run and so and then when when does when do things Break um I'll let you tell most um we were coming back from Billings Montana from a medical appointment and um the location that our daughter worked had called and asked if our son could come in to work and it all took off from there and there was nothing in the middle um there was just um for over a year just nothing but a good kid great relationship complete trust and all of a sudden we find out that she had created this world where she works where she's known as a boy and it all we we made a decision we thought okay we don't want to say nothing and I was I was bummed out I was very depressed about it um we don't want to say nothing we don't want to ruin you know cuz school's getting ready to start I wanted everything on a positive note and but yet she had been lying to us and lying about this about her um and and how she had been working there a year no she'd been there only a few months I mean she yeah okay couple of months and what was she doing what was the job um it was at a local restaurant just a little little local dive restaurant right so she had gone there as a boy she no they they all knew that she was female but she went there and she presented this image that she's transgender and that they needed to buy into this and call her by different pronoun and stuff and they were all kind of kind of like uh I don't really know what to do with this so they just played along with it are you tired of feeling sluggish run down or just not your best self take control of your health and vitality with balance of nature balance of nature fruits and veggies are a great way to make sure you're getting essential nutritional ingredients every single day they use an advanced cold vacuum process that encapsulates fruits and vegetables into Whole Food supplements without sacrificing their natural antioxidants the capsules are completely void of additives fillers extracts synthetics pesticides or added sugars the only thing in balance of Nature's fruit and veggie capsules are well fruits and veggies right now you can order with promo code Jordan to get 35% off your first order plus a free fiber and spice supplement there's never been an easier way to make sure you're getting your daily dose of fruits and vegetables experience balance of nature for yourself today go to balance of nature.com and use promo code Jord for 35% off your first order as a preferred customer plus get a free bottle of fiber and spice that's balance of nature.com promo code Jordan for 35% off your first preferred order plus a free bottle of fiber and spice I see I see so they allowed her to go by Leo I see so she started to now is it accurate to say that she started to take the Persona that she was playing with online and now start to if what would happen if she was playing this out in the world yes in the world and so she built this little thing at her her job and um again that she was a boy and you know going by Leo and stuff so it all came to a head on August 18th um the next week school was starting and she was going to be a nth grader in high school and because of all of her past history was struggling in school we said hey why don't we take a break from the summer job and go ahead and start high school see where we can go with high school and if at Christmas break you're doing great which you always do great and you know things are under control and you're not feeling too anxious or too bullied or anything go back to your summer job maybe you can start working one day a week during you know like maybe one day a weekend on the winter hours and she she obviously didn't want to do that we also had talked to her about hey you know they called and they said our son needed to come to work today and and you know what's going on with that or why are you doing this again you know do we need to have a conversation about that and she was just mad she's a mad teenager at that day um okay so let's let's Okay so so you guys you found out what she was doing at work and you suggested to her that she stopped the job temporarily and if things went well she could pick it up again in the winter essentially okay and which part of that do you think made her angry well you also called her out on the fact that she had been presenting herself as a boy at the job so what do you think it was that made her angry did she really like the job did she feel you were interfering no it wasn't that what do you think it was I think it was the fact that we called her out and this per this personality and this fantasy that she began living she was now going to have to stop living good way to put that it was I think it was that she had a little world within the world where she could be what she wanted to be at that time and that was being imploded on her and instead she she also did not want to start high school and there were some instances prior to school and this is just days before school started where some of the kids were already being mean you know so that's true we took her to high school orientation and some of the kids were already at high school orientation being mean to her I see I see and so and H H how do you think she was doing at her job in her new identity I mean people were playing along with that was she being bullied at at work no no she did have a couple incidents where some people had said things to were at work and she came home upset so not necessarily getting bullied but there were people that were like you're not not a boy we're not playing along with this that's not how when she came home and was upset that's not what she'd say to us she'd say oh the customers were really mean today you know and things like that but in hindsight and kind of putting it together with her boss now that's what was going on is people were like you're not a boy what is wrong with you why are you acting this way and she would be very very upset by the time she got home okay so she's heading back to school and she's going into high school so that's a big transition and she's it looks like there's going to be some continuation of the same trouble and she's not particularly happy about having had her new Fantasy Life at work exposed now is there anything else going on at the time that's that what else is happening um she just strange problem she started having really really bad headaches and she started having vision problems and we we had full medical um insurance we took her in for everything um we're having her eyes constantly checked um she was going through um hair loss she was wanting to wear ball caps all the time she was um having almost like a we don't know if they're hallucinations or what you would call it but there was a combination of those things happening steadily and just terrible headaches and so um that was a concern that we were having it was adding to the uh other you know behavioral things and they seem to go in line with that almost so in hindsight we found out that one of her friends who was another 14-year-old girl was ordering her hormones off of Amazon and having them sent to her her house not ours and then giving those to our daughter Jennifer what were the hormones and how were those purchasable on Amazon do you know they are purchasable on Amazon and you don't have to prove that you're 18 or anything you can just go in and and and buy them and um they were female to male hormones I I could look it up and send it to you the exact ones if you want but um so we found out event after all this happened that that's what was going on at the time cuz we couldn't figure it out I took her to the eye doctor three times and I was like something must be wrong with her glasses you know you must be wrong she's having these headaches and they were like no we can't find was the hair loss noticeable MH every every one of the things that we said was listed as a side effect and that's if you're taking the right dosage and you're you're you're a teenager and most likely when kids are prescribing drugs to kids what's the odds of them following the prescription if they're in a hurry to try to become something else you know so that's what we are oh yeah Jesus that's brutal yeah cuz that well any first of all I had no idea that that was such an easy thing to do and second you just have absolutely no idea what that might do to to her mental health or physical health generally speaking right and looking back I can see things like she not she was acting like more aggressive like really quick to anger um you know her her skin her complexion just went terrible like and I took her to the doctor I was ordering or proactive you know all these things online just like what is going on with this kid's acne like this is not normal for her so in hindsite I know it was now those hormones that she had taken herself right right we we didn't find this out until after CPS had taken her away okay so okay so now she's off to high school so so continue the story what happen August 18th um what had happened is we had the discussion with her about stopping the job and starting high school and starting fresh and um she was very angry with us and very upset with us that day but she even though she was angry she was coming in and out of the room with us you know she she'd talk to us and stuff but then she'd be snippy you know and and go back to her room typical teenager Behavior so wasn't alarming so I got a call at exactly 148 from our local police department saying that our daughter had make text message comments to another child that she wanted to kill herself and that that this was her intention so I stayed on the phone with a police officer I walked down the hallway to where she was and I and I who reported that I'm sorry who reported the text messages the other child that she made these these the child reported M do you think the child did that of her own accord or was that a plan or were their parents involved cuz that's very that's very odd she only met the child one time at a track meet like seven or eight months prior but she had spun this whole thing with this other little girl that she had terminal cancer and that Todd and I weren't letting her get treatments so I see so this was part and parcel of a whole story yeah so I do think that the child reported it cuz I think the child was like she's being terribly abused by these awful people oh yeah oh yeah yeah so the the police officer like I said he called I went down the hallway and I talked to Jennifer and she was she was in her room but the door was open and I was like hey you know what's going on the the cops are on the phone like what what is this about I've seen other girls spin fantasies like that online and make false reports to other people of abuse in the household and the social services teams come ramp paging in like mad right and yes often the girls who have spun the fantasies well they're taken completely aback by the consequences of their actions but you know that's another indication of that bit of tendency towards histrionic Behavior right dramatic and histrionic behavior that can produce these sorts of cascading consequences okay so this was reported to the police right and so I stayed on the phone with the officer and I spoke to our daughter every and I told the police officer I'm like I I don't think I I think she's just angry at us she's having a day and this is something that she's doing to act up and act out for attention I said I'm not concerned if I am concerned I'll certainly call you back I'll call an ambulance I'll do whatever I have to do to make sure that she's safe you know and so that was at about 148 and then at 7:40 that night is when Children's Services showed up at our house because they said the police officer could not lay eyes on the child or speak to the child directly even though he didn't ask he didn't come over he didn't ask to see her he didn't ask for me to hand her the phone none of that happened so at this point and so the how many people from Child Services showed up just one lady just one lady M it's at this point we're like okay well this has never happened before and this is weird and and you're really taking back when children you know now you're in trouble yeah you're like what did I do what's going on around here so we are very transparent cuz our attitude was being transparent we have nothing to hide so why not let them look at whatever they want to look at and then they can go about their day and and go on their way so we gave her a tour the house we showed her what do you think you should have done now in hindsight I think we should have said no that this isn't get out of here like you can lay eyes on the child if you want but you're not coming in our house you're not getting into our lives there's no reason for you to be here like we should have stood strong in the fact that yeah it's tough a because the natural proc if the if if everything is okay is to do exactly what you did to cooperate and to believe that your cooperation will produce the best possible positive result my suspicions are now that for everybody in watching and listening if Child Services shows up at your doorstep it's time to get a lawyer like right now before you talk to them before you do anything with them do not to presume axiomatically that they are on your side or that things are going to go well in fact I would say quite the contrary and that that was where we at we thought oh well they're going to be on our side they're going to see that we're dealing with a child who who has some problems that we're addressing and then they're going to go about their day and and that's not what happen so okay so you you're showing this person around your house what what what's the interaction like with the person it was friendly she was friendly she was nice I mean yeah our home is to very stocked very nice home um uh our daughter spoiled rotten for technology in her room um the report was that she had taken 30 ibuprofen and drank we haven't gotten there yet so what happened then she said she had to talk to Jennifer alone and we were at that point we were like wow this is getting really yeah but we said okay you can talk to her alone and they went out on the porch they spoke for about 10 minutes and then Todd and I went out on the porch cuz we're like we're just not comfortable with this this is going in a weird way we're not okay with this and at that point that's when um Jennifer had told the CPS worker that she had taken 30 ibuprofen earlier in the day at about 3:00 as well as she drank toilet bowl cleaner an effort to end her life and we're like we know this didn't happen because she has no signs of chemical burns you know she's not lethargic she's not sick and plus I had been in the kitchen that day with my laptop at the table working where the ibuprofen and stuff were and I know she hadn't take any you know she hadn't had any squired away I knew she hadn't done it but we were like we we know that she tells stories and this is not true but we're going to go to the hospital and have her checked because we're going to be safe as you could possibly be and then that's where all the problems really really started when we got the hospital continue tell tell me what happened so we get to the hospital that night you take her does the social worker come along with you at this point does yes okay so all of you are going to the hospital so we transport our daughter with us in the social what s what sort of mood is your daughter in at the moment at that moment nobody spoke we weren't really speaking we're really Blown Away by everything that just happened because just had friends over and our daughter was having a really good time she had a new puppy too that day so she was really happy and um so we were really caught off guard by the whole thing and the way there it was very quiet we were just in a hurry to get there and the whole time just wondering where all this came from so quickly you know how did we go from zero to CPS at our house and now we're on the way to the hospital but so now you also don't know like this fantasy that came out about the ibuprofen and the toilet B cleaner so you have no idea how far she's taken multiple fantasies in Her Imagination right and how because this is what happens to people who wander off track you know is they start dwelling on fantasies and and spend hours on them or hundreds of hours on them and develop a very elaborated alternative world or multiple alternative worlds and so God only knows where the story of the IU profen and the toilet bowl cleaner came out you know cuz you made reference earlier to the fact that she had shared some fantasies online with her online crowd right about having a twin brother and like you just have no idea how much of that dreamlike world she's allowing to occupy Her Imagination right right because it's isn't it's surprising a because you say well you were having a perfectly as far as you could tell a perfectly normal day a happy day even she got a new puppy and and yet as soon as she talks to the social worker there's this immediate fantasy of 40 ibuprofen and toilet I mean that's a dramatic fantasy right I mean killing yourself is one thing but killing yourself with ibuprofen and toilet bowl cleaner that's that's pretty bloody brutal starting a business can be tough especially knowing how to run your online storefront thanks to Shopify it's easier than ever Shopify is the global Commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business from the launch your online shop stage all the way to the did we just hit a million orders stage Shopify is there to help you grow our marketing team uses Shopify every day to sell our merchandise and we love how easy it is to add more items ship products and track conversions Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout up to 36% better compared to other leading Commerce platforms no matter how big you want to grow Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com jbp go to shopify.com jbp now to grow your business no matter what stage you're at that's shopify.com jbp okay so you're on the way to the hospital you don't know what's going on the social workers is with you what happens when you get to the hospital so we get to the hospital and they right away hook her up EKGs blood work you know the whole Gambit and we're totally fine with that right away she says I'm transgender and my parents don't accept me and everyone here needs to call me Leo and the whole room was just kind of like crickets like there no one really said anything and and so Todd I stepped up and we said you know she's done this in the past we're not okay with she pick the worst possible moment to announce that yes right especially to announce the fact that you guys don't accept her right so now she's really playing with fire like seriously playing with fire and so our reaction was um you know she's done this before we're not okay with it you need to address her by her birth name and you know her regular pronouns and and that's what you told the people at the hospital that's what we told them right off the bat we said we're not okay with this you need to just not call her Leo her name is you know Jennifer we'd like you to call her Jennifer that's her birth name and we all need to get her treated and move on with what needs to be done now was our attitude and so and how many people are you telling this to the whole emergency room crew there were probably five people in the room plus the show show do you know did you know that or do you know in retrospect how many of them so to speak were on your side and how many of them were on your daughter's side because you know increasingly in institutions if a child goes into an institution and makes a claim like that the hospitals many hospitals now and many organizations are tilted even formally so that they're required to take the side of the child correct and that is what happened that is what happened that is Jesus so we were we were at the hospital for five days um after five days yeah so we knew they said the three-day hold when someone tries to commit suicide or says they're going to then they automatically go on a three-day hold and we understood that and we were like okay so the whole time I'm going to the hospital for five six hours a day because I don't her birth mother abandon her and even I'm her primary mother figure now and I don't want her to feel like just because you're acting up and you're being bad we're going to abandon you that's not how life works you know yeah I'm not happy I have to sit down here all day long but this is this is the way that life is and family is so I'm down there every day for five six hours a day and at this point the hospital crew totally turns against me so they start calling her Leo and when I say hey that's not her name I want you to call her by birth name you know I'm getting a lot of rolling their eyes and signing yeah that's not good that's the best predictor of divorce in married couples who are seeking counseling eye rolling yeah well it's a sign of contempt it's not good it's it's not good so if that's the sort of response you were getting that was definitely indicative of the fact that you were now put in the unacceptable mother Camp absolutely and so right and then so almost right away there was one Aid that sat outside her door cuz now she's on 24-hour supervision so she's in a door and the aid sits about like right there in that doorway away from her just to watch her so right so she's getting a lot of attention lot our daughter's in the middle right and then I'm kind of on the other side of the room there so right away the aid starts saying things to her about how this particular Aid herself is non-binary and is going to go have Top surgery and oh boy and I'm like hey you know what you need to shut this down like this is not okay so I stayed calm because I felt like they were trying to bait me into a fight and then they could look and turn around and say look at these look at that's a typical tactic absolutely typical tactic it's part of that provocativeness is right there poke and poke and poke and poke and poke and poke and wait for an explosion and then to say well I knew that you were the sort of person who would explode right and I felt like that's what was happening to us so Todd and I stayed very calm and then you lose when you stay too calm because then they're like well now you're too calm no no well the whole point of people who are manipulative like that the whole game is to put you in a position where no matter what you do you're wrong and they're right you're wrong and bad and they're right and good that's the game right and so and what it costs you that's irrelevant it's completely irrelevant in fact there's more and more studies of of people who behave in this way because you get a kind of narcissistic manipulativeness but that slides very rapidly into sadism and so not only do they want to be right and good at your expense but if you suffer as a consequence so much the better right so and if your daughter happens to have to be dragged along for the ride while they're proving their Mor Superior no they're they're more than okay with that that's just part of the fun so oh yeah all right so now you're there's five days in the hospital your daughter's getting a lot of attention they put an aid in there who's going to be extraordinarily attentive to all of her whims right correct there's one thing that's really important here too during this to me it's the big the biggest thing is that right immediately I've never heard our daughter ever talk about another state before for and there was talk about Wyoming and then they said there are different facilities that she could be sent to almost all of them are in Montana but there's one in Wyoming but there was almost an unspoken language going on between our daughter what are these facilities that she's going to be sent to why does that emerge as a discussion they said she needed acute psychiatric care because of the the statement she was making about killing herself and we were like okay and they said it would be impatient so oh God we're saying okay like we're if this is what needs to happen to help her okay let's get this done so we were told there were six facilities in the state of Montana and like Todd said that one they started talking about Wyoming kind of off to the side and it was kind of like a like a secret language if that if that makes sense between our daughter well they said they said it like this cuz right away while they're talking I was just listening and I went right to my phone and good old Google went to Google what's different about Wyoming and they show the map of Idaho Montana The Dakotas they all have laws Banning transgender care uh Wyoming does not they just lost it on that battle and the the the centerpiece of that is Casper well and of course lurking behind all this is your your daughter's unwillingness in all likelihood to go to high school mhm yeah right because this gives her an out Jesus terrible at that point um you know we like Todd said he had his phone we looked up Wyoming and we said to the do to the doctor and the social worker outside of the room because I was very careful not to have these conversations in front of her because I I know she uses this information and to be manipulative and get what she wants so outside the room we had a conversation and I said you know we're not okay with Wyoming and here's why and tell me if she were to go to Wyoming what would be our rights what's protecting us what's protecting her when someone goes to impatient care I was like what's expected are we supposed to visit are you supposed to visit weekly and and how how would we get from I I mean we could drive but we'd have to put our whole business on hold and drive the 8 hours to Wyoming and is this expected of us you know like help me out here like tell me what what's supposed to happen and I'll never forget our CPS worker said to me she said oh don't worry about Wyoming those the chances of that happening are so slim and we'll all have a conversation and work through it together if that's if that's what's on the table yeah and when she when that got said you could see immediate discomfort in our daughter like she had just been betrayed and you could see almost a we're just telling your parents that isn't what they said but that's what the body language I see so the notion here is that there's covert there's covert planning going on behind the scenes yeah and I told her that right away when we left I said I said they are going to send her to Wyoming that's what I said so um five days go by because they they couldn't find placement and they were having trouble on August 22nd we were told that she was next in line for a bed at a facility in Billings so when we left the hospital that day we were thinking okay well she's going to go to this Billings impatient um psychiatric care and that's 4 hours from us so if we're expected to visit or or take things down there okay so well so so let me ask you about this because as far as as far as you guys are concerned your your daughter apart from her texts was not showing any signs of suicidality right she never has she's not suicid as a matter of fact she's always been like any self har any cutting anything like that no she had one incident and the and CPS jumped on this incident where I walked in her room and she had a scratch on her arm and she had a counseling appointment the next day and I was like did you scratch yourself did you do that and she tried to tell me oh no the cat did it and I was like okay but I took a picture of it anyways and to this day I have that picture and I sent it to her counselor cuz she was going to counseling the next day and I said I just found this on Jennifer's arm what should I do should I how should I act should I be concerned do I punish her like what does someone do in this situation and he said thanks for sharing it with me I will review it with her tomorrow in counseling but again it was a scratch it wasn't a big bloody G there's no pattern here no not at all okay now but now despite the fact that she's not showing she's not depressed she's not suicidal as far as you guys can tell she claimed that she was she's acting out that's for sure but now the psychiatric Community has decided that she's in such a dire condition that she needs inpatient treatment for her suicidality right now they're undoubtedly covering their ass so to speak and going by the book um and have also decided that you're evil parents in in the offing but what are you thinking about given that your daughter is now being pulled into the well into the workings of this system I mean I obviously you want to be cooperative so but what do you what and you're concerned obviously that there's maneuvering going on behind the scenes what are your thoughts uh in this situation I thought the one thing that could come out of this that might be good I said now that she's in a bubble with them the same problem we were just having they're about to get the focus of it they're going to start seeing what we see and they did right away CPS and we were hoping that we could get a diagnosis based on that you know based on if she goes in their care and starts telling these crazy lies and stuff I see that we would get some kind of diagnosis of what was going on her the CPS during that exact time CPS even called and demanded that we turn over her cancer treatment records we said she never had cancer and then uh C did they ever offer you a diagnosis that was associated with her tendency to lie never never the diagnosis we've been given has been um ADHD pts there are I can't tell you because you're not my clients but there are diagnosis that are specific to the behaviors that she's manifested that you should have been told about and and that's what I was thinking like there definitely it's clear so if had they known what they were doing and being paying attention you would have received a diagnosis cuz like I I've been building it in the back of my mind as you guys have been telling me the story and to this day we still don't have a diagnosis on the lying they just said well sometimes she tell stories I'm like not like this this is not yeah this is not someone who sometimes tells stories these are outrageous things like a ghost hovering over her bed to um the cancer thing and then it was a sister that died it was one thing after another okay so we get to a point where um August 22nd they told us she was next in line for a bed in Wyoming or I'm sorry Montana and um so we were like okay so we leave the hospital we go to dinner that night and then again about 7:30 8:00 the hospital calls us and it was a doctor from the hospital and he said um a bed has opened up in Wyoming and she needs to go and we were like yeah we were just what you know how did this happen we were told Billings earlier today yeah there's nothing worse than being proved right when you're apprehensive okay so now it's Wyoming and so he said well she she has to go we're not doing her any good here she can't just sit here forever and I said I understand that but we were told she was next line for bed in Billings we thought we had just a little bit of time and so the call ended and within 10 minutes CPS showed up at our house with the police officer and removed her from our care they gave us paperwork saying that we were unwilling or unable to provide medical care for her and that's that's not true at all and so so what okay so what did you make of that it said child neglect they're they're saying that that act of not providing or not being able willing and able to provide medical okay now was that based on your objection to her being moved to Wyoming yeah only that she had only I see because so they told you she was going to Billings then they told you she was going to Wyoming you weren't very happy about that and then they used that as evidence that you weren't willing to provide her with appropriate care and that's when they took her from you correct exactly they called it recommended we we were declining her recommended Health that's that's the way they were did that oh yes oh man so there's a there's a great setup for you so this was pre-planned she was going to Wyoming absolutely you know why it was pre-planned because they didn't go through the court all that was preprinted it was they got there in 10 minutes got served we in a small town but it's not that small you know I mean 10 minutes from the time that we got off the phone to the time that you arrived at the house of the police and they said you guys can't talk to her again until we say you can't talk to her you can't call her you can't see her yeah how old is she at this point 14 oh my God so now she's Fallen completely into the hands of the demented social workers exactly so then the next day which was August 23rd after they told us we couldn't see her anything they had somebody an employee from Children's Services um transfer her to Wyoming but on the way there she was allowed to stop she was allowed to stop and visit her friends she was allowed to go to her summer job after we were told that we couldn't see her or speak to her they made all these stops around town and visited with all these people before they left she could tell them that she was she could tell them that she was transgender suicidal and and her parents were abusing her and I'm like I don't care what people think of me in the town but she's a child I mean they should have protected her what if you know when she's 20 she's over all of this and and is in a different place in life and now what did you let her do you know what just happened there are you struggling with back taxes or unfiled returns this year the IRS is actively escalating collections by adding 20,000 new agents in these challenging times your best defense is to use tax Network USA along with hiring thousands of new agents and field officers the IRS has kicked off 2024 by sending over 5 million pay up letters to those who have unfiled tax returns or balances owed these guys are not your friends don't save your rights and speak with these agents independently without backup tax Network USA a trusted tax relief firm has saved over 1 billion doar in back taxes for their clients and they can help you secure the best deal possible whether you owe $10,000 or 10 million they can help whether it's business or personal taxes whether you have the means to pay or on a fixed income tax Network can help resolve your tax burdens once and for all seize control of your financial future now and don't let tax issues overpower you contact tax Network USA for immediate relief and expert guidance call 1 180024 6000 or visit TN usa.com Peterson turn to tax Network USA and find your path to financial peace of mind that's TN usa.com Peterson so we were pretty upset about that so she goes to Wyoming yeah pretty upset I bet you were how upset extremely they were just destroying burning all of her Bridges there and it's like they were intentionally just burning all the bridges to her family same so how are you making sense of this because now they're not we're just totally kind of we're mad we're upset you know we're hurt our daughters just been ripped away from us like it was our whole world was just kind of spinning felt like we're up against the devil that's what it felt like like that's the face that's the face of the devil that's what I thought yeah that's what the devil is it was and so okay so why and so why did you why did you why did it appear to you why did those appear to be the relevant terms to you do you think because she's a child she's a child if I when I was a child I could not make any such decisions my I I'm glad my mom and dad were there to tell me no you know to particularly true when you're like 13 to 15 boy if you if you're able to you can imagine staking your life on the stupid decision you made when you were 13 my God you'd be in such ter shape absolutely and I couldn't believe that they could do these things I was so I we' never been involved in this system before we've never dealt with that yeah well you were fortunate in that boy once you get your sleeve caught in the Child Welfare machine you are in you are in serious trouble mm yeah now we know yeah yeah yeah I can tell okay so now she's off now so you can see too they're letting her stop off with all her friends and to say goodbye they're showing her just how much they are on her side yes right so now that's the substitution for the parents is like well your parents don't care for you they're abusing you look at how nice we are to you we'll give you everything you could possibly want and more oh yeah one of the attorneys involved in our case said a a smart thing he said they took your daughter and they taught her how to weaponize the system and now you know you've got a super smart kid who has learned that she can get what she wants just by saying a few key words and what do you think since August 18th those are those are her key words I'll kill myself if you don't let me yeah you know I mean she has like now she knows so how do you how do you work her on that or come back for that I don't know but she did go to Wyoming she was there for a month while she was in Wyoming we were given very little information but we did email them constantly and say things like we want to make sure she's not being called Leo we want to make sure you're not letting her live as a boy we're not okay with oh yeah you want to make sure that you're not transitioning her and um you know no men's products cuz that was another thing at the first hospital they started given her men's hygiene products to use even after I was like no I'll bring her stuff from home she doesn't need Old Spice you know she needs yeah and so so what were they tell what were they doing and what were they telling you they they told us that they're going to do what the patient needs them to do to get well they said therapeutically they had to meet her where she was and if she was a boy right now they had to meet her as a boy and I was like I'm not yeah well they're basically ma it depends on the state but they were likely mandated by law to do that I mean I know in Canada for example under the dictates of so-called gender affirming care that therapists are punish it's it's a punishable offense for a therapist not to affirm the state of gender of a minor yeah even if you had some even if there were some sensible therapists there and those are becoming very hard to find by the way the the probability that they would be able to go against her stated wishes in an Institutional setting even if they thought they should is low right because that's that's what exactly what the and these bills that ban so-called conversion therapy they're aimed precisely at ensuring that a child who's possessed by an evil whim as is the case in your daughter and then being egged on by narcissistic and cowardly Psychopaths the therapists are and Physicians for that matter are required by law to continue with the LIE right and so everyone who's watching and listening should know that too so you bring your child who's has gender dysphoria and Associated conditions to a therapist or a medical professional at your peril right and theirs too and so what I mean what do you do how do you treat these kids but I mean so she stays in Wyoming for a month then they bring her back to um the state of Montana and that that point she went into a a group home called it was run by an agency called youth Dynamics Dynamics yep and at the group home they socially transitioned her they allowed her to be called Leo he him and what had they done in Wyoming on that in that regard were they were the so she's well on the pathway now so she's on the path now so right now she's surrounded by people who are also bolstering her story that you guys aren't to be trusted that you've alienated her that you likely abused her that the fact that you wouldn't go along with her true identity means that you're not to be trusted all of that M yeah yeah and so now that's where that's where we have her she's very very angry very um you know and more of the the manipulation and the lies and stuff are coming up and um and what sort of lies are you seeing at that point they were they were actually like we mentioned earlier she had already turned their sights on them so CPS would call and say that your daughter Jennifer just told me off just cussed me out on the phone and she said there's apparitions floating around and those kind of things the same stuff was starting all said cult she said you're in a cult and I'm never coming back to glasow cuz I'm not going to live in your cult and just more of right of what she was doing before only on a Bigg limit pushing yeah and one thing during both the Wyoming time and at first it seemed like a coincidence but it just kept going on and on we were giv the wrong contact information to her where she was that in Wyoming cut off and every number we'd be given we couldn't contact her and then when they moved her again it was the same problem all over again that did happen it was strange strange how we given the wrong number everywhere yeah right strange absolutely that's exactly the kind of behind the scenes manipulation you'd expect from people who are narcissistic Psychopaths even even the court appointed attorneys numbers we were given were completely wrong and they gave them out of country phone numbers for her and I yeah it was so they didn't even start interacting in in it until weeks into it we okay so she's in in Wyoming for a month then she comes back to Montana now she's in this group you said she in a group home and run by youth Dynamics and and so what and they're they're continuing with the transition and so what are you I imagine you did some background research on that group what what what did you find out about them um they they're in a very woke area of our of our state you know Montana's pretty broken up and um but the area that are is particularly woke okay and and what do you mean by that exactly and how did you know that um well they allowed they believe that you can transfer your gender when you want like today I want to be a girl oh tomorrow I'm going to be a boy so call me this name and then some of the other things that they believe in and that they kind of tout or just not our beliefs okay well we can leave it at that that's fine that's fine and so in this group home she's allowed 100% socially transition she is called Leo she's been given a chest binder oh yeah she's allowed to wear men's clothes straight down to the boxer shorts I mean everything yeah and so we would visit down she's 14 she shaved her head so she had like this really masculine you know haircut um at the school program which was run by an agency called New Day she was allowed to be in all the boys groups and present herself as a boy at school and right now she's in a different school right and how's do you have any idea how life at that school is working out for her we went down there together to see her and everything was great the visit was great she seemed excited about coming home like when can she come home the visit was fantastic however um she was um you can see being socially transitioned but pieces of who she really was was a parent like like you could tell she missed being with us and okay so you went to visit her when she was still in the group home twice and the second time we went I went for a long walk with her in the back and she said she don't know why she tells these lies she goes I can't wait to come home and it was I was almost in tears I was I was crying she said I can't wait I want to come home I'm so sorry for the problem I'll never do these things again and I I promised her that well you can imagine that there's a part of her you know imagine her split in some ways into two parts and so there's the part that's new that's that's excited about her new identity and attracting all this attention and toying with this idea and these fantasies so that's the fantasy world and then there's the true part of her that's like pining like mad for her actual life and missing I mean how long has she been away from you guys now um at that the August to we're looking at like October November right so number of months and she's 14 and so all of this hospitalization everything descended on her with the same rapidity that it desc descended on you with even more disruption cuz at least you guys got to go home and you had each other and all of a sudden she's like in she's in serious no man's land and we knew we were in trouble though when we went seeing her because it went so good the uh the place that where she was being how at they were all excited how good everything just went again and we were supposed to come back and take her to dinner that night so we were all excited about that and she was excited and then they called us about an hour before that and said CPS and glass called and they said absolutely not the parents are not allowed to be alone with her they were like wow how the hell did they find out every every time things would be where she wanted to come back home the things were good CPS would step in and block it do you have any idea who was doing that why the counselor y the counselor the one that come to your house yeah the one um the one at the group home so in the group home they have like an in-house counselor that she saw so you think that counselor was contacting CPS absolutely cuz he was saying you know when the parents are here they they will only call her Jennifer they won't call her Leo oh yeah yeah and and that you could tell it was upsetting those there's a special place in hell for him yeah so you could tell that they were they were not happy with us even though we're very polite to them but we wouldn't buy into it you know we'd be like okay Jennifer show us your room okay Jennifer let's look at not Leo we would never say Leo you know and then and ion told her I'm like the haircut looks really masculine is that the look you were going for and she was kind like you know so things like that continue to go on okay okay so all right so now she's in the group home and hypothetically she's going to come home what does happen so during this whole time we're having monthly Court meetings um to see so the judge could be just see where we're at you know where CPS was at with everything and everyone has a lawyer Todd had a lawyer I had a lawyer assigned to me our daughter has a lawyer assigned to her CPS has a lawyer and then there's a CA Guardian there's all these people and so almost every Court thing was about a half hour long and during that they all kind of talked to each other you know I'm like are we going to get to the point here like shouldn't we be talking about our daughter and what's going on with her not what you did last weekend cuz I don't care you know and so um it finally our our public defenders told us just keep your head down play nice and at the end of this group home program which is about 6 months you'll have your daughter back in your care yeah and then you can go on with your life so we were like okay okay well it all came to a head because finally we're like no we're not okay with this we don't want to play nice anymore we don't want to do any of these things anymore and at that point um this was on January I believe it was January Guardian came over yeah the 19th well the guardian came over in October but on January 19th basically CPS wanted to step out of the case and um place our daughter with her birthmother who now lives in Canada with her new husband probably not probably important not to skip past the guardian coming in o the reason that's important is that's when we knew what the game was okay the guardian tell me about the guardian the guardian and lightam came to our house it was very pleasant meeting she was um and who is this Guardian State appointed guardian of your child she comes to meet with you okay meeting went great we sat in the kitchen visited everything was great very friendly very comfortable with her and when we're walking out she stopped and she said I need to know what's this going to look like you raising having a transgender child you are you are you going to if you're not going to agree to call her by her preferred pronouns and raise her as as a boy then you're not going to like what I have to say in court that's what she that was her party so much for the ni I was blown away that figures that's just exact she even brought us an article that said how we should we should be supportive like we should use the proun that she wants and I was like no I said I don't I don't need your article we're good pamplets on how to raise a transgender child the whole bit oh no you guys were no you were either going to go along with the lie or you were going to get like raked over the coals that was that was the game and all the niceness is there just so the people who are doing it don't have to face who they actually are yes yes so what happened was we released our video that was 17 minutes long saying this is what we've gone through with the system okay tell me about that when when did you do that January 17th okay You released it where um I released it on YouTube and Facebook and Facebook so what made you decide to do that we had no choice we're we're at the end of our line you transitioned our daughter you're destroyed so you thought we're just going to make everything transparent public and we're going to take our chances be because everything that we've talked about so far we were not allowed to even breathe a word of in court everything that's been said so far they what do you mean you weren't allowed to our our anything we would tell the court court appointed attorneys but we just told you and what we talked about so far and none of it would come out in court why we have no idea we'd have to sit there and just shut up they would talk and none of it would ever come out how did you control your temper um it was more shock all the time I was pinching him under the table I'm married well I married well that's yeah she keeps she but it was hard well you said no I think I think you I think your answer is good that you were so shocked that that that you didn't actually know what to do I'm sure that's true absolutely think this it's like being in a movie right right and we couldn't believe that they would sit there and say things that were completely the opposite of the truth and even things we would point out saying okay this is a a outright lie you have this completely backwards and they say we know it can't be Chang though that was their for instance like on the affida they submitted an affida to court and it says you know we weren't providing housing clothing food and all this stuff and we said hey you were at our house and in this report over here that you made says our house was clean well stocked and no dangers we were told oh that's a template that we use for affid datives so just ignore that part oh I see oh that's very convenient for you guys yeah but it's listed it's in in the record any anybody if you saw that you how would you know I mean you it looks like we're these terrible people who live in squalor and run like a meth then or something you know with this poor kid in it and that's not true at all wow wow wow okay okay so you've had enough by January 19th I bet you've had January 17th You released a 17-minute video on YouTube what do you you you tell what we tell our story in very good T we don't use any names none of that at all we we didn't mention where did you release it um I put it on YouTube as well as Facebook on on your just on your social media yes I see so it was just a local thing essentially and what happened it started to catch fire and um the next so that was on 17th on the 18th our daughter's attorney filed a motion in court that said they have to take their video down and and they're not allowed to talk about anything yes and so this was on the 18th and so I was like okay I I see your motion they emailed it to me so I was like I don't how serious do I take this I don't know so on the 19th we go to court and the judge for this so it's that fast two days later the court system can move pretty quickly when they need when they want to but before this is important leadup too there's plenty of witnesses to this too and we were told prior to that the purpose of this is the judge is going to put you in your place the attorneys said that to us about eight times we kept her attorney um the our public they said you've really made this judge mad she's going to put you in your place yeah over and over she's gonna she's going to really come at you you shouldn't have done that we're glad you did in one way guys but on the other way you really shouldn't have done that in the video and so um when we got to the court on the 19th CPS wanted out of the case they wanted to place Gennifer with her birthmother in Canada and they just why did they want out of the case it was getting too hot I think it's getting it's getting too much attention and too hot I see so it's just time to fo her off somewhere else yes so what they did was um the judge and and the judge and the attorneys intervene and they said well what have you done to investigate this mom in Canada who hasn't been with this child in 7 years hasn't really spoke to her hasn't seen her how have you and they said well we got a background checked so then they were like okay well she's in kitner Ontario so in the other Providence is if she got in trouble would it show in kitner and they're like probably not so he the judge was like I want you to do more looking into the birth mom and making sure it's an appropriate okay so so let me separate these you have a court case for January 19th about your about your video this case that you're referring to to is separate from that no it all happened happed at the same time oh I see okay okay so the judge was going to put you in in your place but also was attending to the safety of your daughter in relationship to this transfer okay okay it was like a dual she addressed a couple issues in that I see and she told us that day the judge said that we needed to accept that reunification with our daughter wasn't going to be what we were expecting that it was going to be that she probably didn't live with us but we had the chance to rebuild a relationship with her is what she said to us yeah and and regarding the video too the judge never watched the video had never seen it the judge even had been in that Court never watched it didn't even want to take the time to watch it and she did ask the County Attorney if he had watched it and he nothing alarming they didn't use any names and unless there's other copies that are longer and there wasn't there's only the one but nobody so what did they tell you you had to do we got 10 we remove it right now you got 10 minutes or you go to jail on what grounds contempt of court oh so we had to do that so what what what but what had you done wrong before the contempt of court nothing nothing nothing I see so if you didn't take it down that was contempt of court but there was no reason that you had to take it down apart from that as far as you could tell no it was it was done in taste it was done very polite it was so did she offer any explanation at all for her just anger and put us in our place nope y scre wow so okay now so now you you've you've lost your daughter and you've been through the through the social work meat grinder and legal meat grinder and now you make this public because you actually have the right to freedom of speech and all you did was tell the truth and apparently you annoyed a judge for reasons that you don't understand and they told you that you either take it down or you're going to go to jail that's the situation exactly oh yeah so so that's fun so what are you thinking about your place in the world at this point we're blown away by that because the it was so simple we see other people put way more stuff up we did not name our child and they also their attorney the attorney for our daughter that was she's very woke but said um um he said he was Bor he lives in Glasgow in the in the video I said um I'm from Glasgow Montana and lived I said I was born in glasow Montana and I've lived in Montana much of my life I so that was a big crime they said that was a big one because then everybody can figure out where our daughters from so we thought that's on everybody's Facebook profiles already right um that's a crime so we we took the video we did take the video down in the 10 minutes you have to this is a Friday and I don't really want to sit in jail over the weekend which I know was her intent and so I'm like okay so I took the video down but somebody else had already copied it and released it on Rumble and other places and I don't know who did that um so it's it's just caught fire from from there and that's kind of what landed us here yeah so currently our our daughter who's 14 is in Canada with her birth mom we have great concerns about that cuz I'm not sure if if you got to see the letter so all throughout the girls lives um we had three of the girls in our care when they were minors and I had them in counseling right away because they told me horror stories about this birth mother and terrible things that supposedly happened so as soon as I married Todd I put them all in counseling one of those counselors wrote a letter stating that if um the birth mother wanted to be reunited with Jennifer that she needed to go through un reunification therapy have visits all the claims that the kids had made needed to be looked into so right from the GetGo I gave CPS those letters from that counselor back in 2017 I think it was maybe 18 and they were like well she's not doing that now and I'm like well no she's not doing that now because she hasn't seen our daughter in seven years yeah so we don't know they didn't care they don't care so we don't know what's going on in you definitely had them confused with people who cared yeah mhm quite the contrary yeah it is right right and so that's where she is now and so what's what do you guys face now practically and legally into the future so when was the last time you were in communication with your daughter not in probably over a month now it's been a while and that that's because we had the weekly where we talk to talk on um webcam with her with a counselor right so that's monitored so we haven't had that anymore at all and also her sisters who who loves her her sister is in in the Navy loves her to death and um they CPS block communication with her too so she cannot um talk to her sister is your communication with your daughter blocked or blocked and then also we during this time well they've H her too my like her grandparents that aren't blocked they they kept forget getting over and over over they kept saying it was an oversight that she wasn't allowed to call them and wasn't on the call list and we would keep going through the the attorneys and they were so what do you think what do you think is in the offing for your daughter is she living as Leo at the moment she is and what's the plan her birth mom is in Canada with her and supports her being transgender supports her being called Leo I don't know what health care she can get in in Canada if she can get you know the double masectomy and stuff I don't know what's available to her and and that's very not just available recommended yes that's very very scary to us and you know our greatest fear is that she will I don't if you want to say grow out of this phase or or come around from this phase she's 14 yeah 80% of kids or more really grow out of it by 18 yeah and if you get them to what damage has been done and at that point does she what if she really does want to kill herself then like what have we done to to support her and help her through the basic mental crisis that she had I don't feel like the system helped her at all well you can say that again Montana we found out just recently leads the US according to an article on child takeaways by CPS true the capital of it in the whole United States Montana so how do you guys reconcile yourself with your your situation as Citizens in the United States now I mean like this is I've heard stories like this before unfortunately I've watched people who were perfectly good parents fall into the MW of Child Protective Services often because their child was foolish enough to make a false complaint and then like all hell breaks loose and you're lucky like well you guys weren't lucky it think you know things really got out of hand for you but anybody whose life isn't destroyed by that completely is is fortunate so so now you're in you're in a dire situation and so is your daughter like uh what's your next move and and what's your status legally like because you guys like you you weren't supposed to put up this video but yeah here you are talking to me so why my suspicions are this isn't going to make you very popular no so that one of the lawmakers that actually passed the law said what that they're they're not following the laws correctly and that's the whole problem here it isn't the lawmakers the lawmakers have the right laws up but CPS and I don't know if woke is the word or whatever the word is to use that kind of evil but they're able to just go right around the laws like oh they're going to ban this in Montana we're going to send her to wyom everything has been that way and the lawmakers are commenting on our video the video they made us took down the people that were commenting on it were the lawmakers from the state and they're saying yeah this is wrong they're doing this 100% backwards so our situation now to to run back to it yeah is we are in contempt of court um we are we have a court hearing on Wednesday and contemp of court for what exactly we we're not supposed to speak about our case or anything like that at all again everything that we talk why are you because I keep telling people our family has been destroyed there'll never be a family unit of Christa Todd and Jennifer again we're that is done our our life that way as we know it is destroyed but the best thing that we can do is make sure that this doesn't happen again at least in the state of Montana I mean we have to get the word out we have to do whatever we can do to make sure why are you willing to take that risk because it's the right thing to do for one and for another we we don't want another family to go through what we've gone through oh absolutely and and and also it' be a crime not to because when did when did the US shift to a country where CPS can say you don't even get a voice 2015 what have we said here today that is harmful to anybody that it has to be gag ordered bannned be you y and yeah well I can see you know to some degree you've already had everything that can really be taken away and that's another thing you've already taken our child that's right that's right what's next that's exactly right going to take my house well I would also say like you you your your your best determination is to go out with guns blazing you know and that's where we're at right absolutely make absolutely every bit of this as public as you possibly can right and and assume even if you get nailed on Wednesday if you get nailed for contempt which you will MH um more of it more of it yeah you know because the more attention that you attract to what's happened to you the more effective your stance is going to be so I would say my family has been under attack many times for not things not quite as dire as what you're going through but um your silence is what's required exactly and you have the weapon of your voice right and if we're quiet then we're we're helping the system absolutely how is that helping another family it's not yeah or you for that matter or you I mean yep you know there's still some possibility that you could see your way through this like I've seen families who've gone through situations similar to yours or Worse even still weave things back together eventually you know yes so people grow up things change and we are open to that absolutely yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well that would be the best possible case scenario and you know what your daughter's really going to want in the depth of her heart is to see that you are doing absolutely everything you can to fight 100% for her you know and to what to whatever degree the part of her that's still oriented in her own favor isn't completely buried it's going to be that part's going to be looking to see what sort of commitment you have to her long-term thriving mhm so Wednesday e Wednesday yes and we have a First Amendment attorney involved you know they filed appeals in the Supreme Court and stuff and well you're lucky in the United States you have pretty powerful Free Speech protection so with any luck that will actually protect you in Canada the Situation's much worse we we have a Charter of Rights but that bloody thing isn't worth the paper it's printed on and so basically in Canada it's already been decided that any half-wit mid-level bureaucrat of exactly the sort that you guys have been tangling with can put pretty much any restrictions whatsoever on freedom of speech and freedom of Association and and uh well those two in particular for whatever reason they deem reasonable so but you do have first amendment protection in the US so my suspicions are if you keep fighting this that you'll probably win how are you affording this we have a g and go um you know I mean we're we're trying to rally and and to raise money we at one point not to jump backwards but at one point we were told um you know CPS has a a budget of like $3.5 million and so we're like why can't why does our family unit because they're saying that we have to have a treatment plan which their treatment plan is they want us to go to marriage counseling and accept Jennifer for what she is and I said no you're not going to make me go to you didn't you just socially transition my daughter and now you want me to go to counseling to it's time to transition you no the answer is no that's no way that's not going to happen go and record it they did um they actually did um want us to go to counseling to learn how to raise that they want me to go to counseling in the in Canada to to be reated no like No And so they said we have to yeah yeah no I understand I understand so they're saying no you you don't understand they were laughing at us the other day they're like you don't understand you have to go and I'm like I don't have to go to counseling to accept something that I'm that's not true like if if you told me you were a unicorn I I don't have to go to counseling to accept that I didn't tell you that before this started it's hell of a time to bring it up now that's just crazy you know and so no it's not just crazy it's mandatory and it's illegal not to do it right that's how crazy it is and so our so we're working with people who are like why okay this is the first transgender case in the state of Montana so why can't they work with us a little bit and say let's bring an expert and say how do you re reunify this family that you you know you not goal that is definitely not the goal and they're not open to it at all that is not the goal the goal is the goal is exactly what happened to you that was the goal right and the goal is the eventual full transition of your daughter that is the goal for sure and publicly and hopefully it will cause you a lot of pain along the way M right that's the goal make no mistake about it yeah well good luck with your your court case keep me posted we will um yeah maybe what we should do you guys can decide this but maybe we should do a brief followup by Zoom after your court case you know think about it for a couple of days because they're going to come down like a ton of bricks on you I imagine and so then you'll have to decide you know what you're willing to to do well we were told by we were told by an attorney before we walked out here that um the Press is filing action to be in the courtroom on Wednesday cuz they they want to be able to report on the contempt of court charges and see what happens to us so we were told that they're they're trying to do that and at this point I think the judge said no so Monday Monday is a court holiday as you Monday's a court holiday so on Tuesday the Press has lawyers that are going to file now being a little um little more persistent like no they have a right for freedom of speech the Press has a right to report on this you have to let them in one one quick thing though that there's a they're not playing by the same rules though we have the governor's office making comments about us that are wrong and not only that you guys are way outside the domain of rules this is no man's land and War oh yeah you're way outside the r we've been accused of having like meth labs and um living in squalor and and all kinds of stuff like that well if you're going to have a meth lab you might as well live in squaller you know you might like this we were we were out for dinner we were actually out for dinner while see while they um had our daughter and this is um we had one of the the staff members from the hospital we think it's one of the nurses that evidently interviewed our daughter or something actually approached us in front of a crowded we're at a crowded place out for dinner and started raising our voice at us saying we should have we KN and they called her by name and we should have allowed her to transgender that we should have um promoted that we should have backed her on what she wanted and everybody heard it now they did suspend have you had have you had okay so let's end with this let's end this section I'm going to continue talking um for another half an hour on the dailywire plus side just so everybody who's listening knows and I think I'm going to talk to this couple about um about well their feelings about the country they live in now I would say and what's happened to it because I would like to delve into that to some degree and what they think is going to happen to them in the future and so um join us for that join us for that okay so I do have one question for you well you know you guys have been under a lot of pressure yes to admit to your to the wrongdoing that you've committed right the the um the fact that you didn't abide by your daughter's demands the fact that you're unfit parents as a consequence of that the fact that now you're doubling down so hard that you're willing to divide the courts it's like to what degree have you had periods of time where you wondered whether you were in the wrong it's happened yeah well I imagine I can't sometimes daily like sometimes I I say gosh is this worth it should we just walk away and and you know go live quietly somewhere but no that's not the right thing to do that doesn't help anybody else so we're going to keep fighting it just enables it to get worse and worse and worse oh yeah it'll get worse there's you know that's there's hell is a bottomless pit because no matter how bad it is there's some stupid something somebody can do to make it worse and so yeah yeah this is well you you've definitely seen a long way into the abyss but there's many layers below that if you really want to visit them so and silence definitely increases the probability that those additional layers will make themselves manifest so I mean we're already pretty far down the rabbit hole right once we've got to the point where the state can take your child on the grounds of your abuse to mutilate castrate and sterilize them and to claim that that's virtuous right that's that's a long way down the rabbit hole but there's more distance yet to go so yeah brutal well I'm very sorry to hear what's happened to you that's and congratulations on your courage that's rare way rarer than you think way rarer than you want to think most people they they Retreat into silence you know or they explode and you can certainly understand that and so you've managed neither of those and so well rather be in contempt of their Court than God's Court though yeah well that's right that's for sure that's right all right well to everybody watching and listening thank you very much for your time and attention to the film crew here today appreciate your help D daylor wire plus people for making this conversation possible that's much appreciated as well [Music]

Channel: Jordan B Peterson

Views: 488,882

Keywords: Jordan Peterson, Jordan B Peterson, psychology, psychoanalysis, existentialism, maps of meaning, free speech, freedom of speech, personality lectures, personality and transformations, Jordan perterson, Dr Peterson

Id: ts-lN22nzIg

Length: 102min 59sec (6179 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 04 2024