Heroic Interview: Buddha’s Brain with Rick Hanson

you're listening to buddha's brain an optimal living interview with Rick Hansen and Brian Johnson I am here today with Rick Hansen so excited to chat about Buddha's brain the practical neuroscience of happiness love and wisdom and Rick has become one of my favorite teachers and I'm so excited to have you on this chat today Rick Thank You Bryan it's a great pleasure to be here wonderful well you're doing such extraordinary work on mindfulness as the subtitle to your book says the practical neuroscience of happiness love and wisdom I would love to just start with that tell me about what is practical neuroscience sure the practical takeaway is that right now with people are thinking feeling seeing hearing sensing and all the rest of it is constructive moment-to-moment by three pounds of tofu like tissue right inside the coconut and if you can get more control over what's happening between your ears you can absolutely transform yourself to become happier stronger more resilient kinder more loving more able to help yourself and also other beings that's fantastic so the tofu inside the coconut so how do we go about doing that it becomes yeah yeah you know part of this conversation sure well a little frame here and so by mind or any word I use like that like thought or feeling or mental whatever I really mean the way neuroscientists two flows of information or information stored in the nervous system you know in a sense hardware that's physical represents non-physical immaterial software meaning signals programs memories and all the rest of them okay as mental activity proceeds as you think about things or attend to acts or shift her attempts from - why get irritated with somebody at work have a big idea that you then shut down because you're afraid of swinging for the fences as all of that has happened right it's occurring based on underlying neural activity mental activity maps to neural activity firings of vast assemblies of synapses the 500 trillion or so synapses inside the coconut SOR well repeated patterns of neural activity changes neural structure this means the bottom line that you can use your mind to change your brain to change your mind for the better that's what is called self-directed neuroplasticity the notion is that sense quote unquote neurons that fire together wire together if you are a little bit skillful and that's what my book Buddhist frame was about just getting a little bit skillful about in a sense the wiring diagram or where the levers are or the buttons to push are inside your own brain you can stimulate and therefore gradually strengthen over time since the neurons that fire together wire together different parts of your own brain which will then improve your own well-being and functioning God so it's so powerful and just this idea of neuroplasticity we can rewire our brain Amin this is a new concept right it wasn't how long ago was it that we actually thought that was fixed yeah well it's interesting for a long time people have understood probably well over a century in Western science that you know the brain had to change if there was any learning whether it's a kid I know you just had a child recently where there is a kid learning to you know walk instead of crawl or us remembering whatever we had for breakfast today or a person becoming more capable of being a stronger leader or being more creative or more able to be emotionally intelligent as a war with staff you know to get the most out of them well or to be able to frankly to sustain attention for spiritual practice more or more capably well any of those learnings require changing the underlying brain structure so this notion of neuroplasticity is itself not new what is breaking news is clarity about the many ways that it occurs inside the brain and the many ways that practical guys like me I think of myself as a methods deep in the trenches that practical guys or people all together can use this information in a targeted way to get those brain circuits going in the right direction so what's going to that so what are your top practices that you look at as you you know kind of teach this practical application of this waste oh yeah well let me if I could Brian just take a couple minutes to create a bit of a frame because it's a really important frame and it here it is you know my own background in contemplative practices in Buddhism and there's a traditional saying there that the mind takes its shape from whatever it rests upon for better or worse well the modern uptake based on this experience dependent neuroplasticity stuff is that the brain takes its shape from whatever you rest your mind upon so for example if you routinely rest your mind upon the nave you know the ordinary stuff in the head of regrets soft criticism resentments grumbling complaints about others etc well over time your brain will take the shape of growing sensitivity to things worsening mood less serotonin production more vulnerability to negative things happening in life on the other hand if you rest your mind repeatedly on your own good qualities that are real on the good qualities and others of the good treatment that is coming your way that's actually the case not rose-colored glasses seeing that's really the case or rest your mind on opportunities and accomplishments etc well your brain will take a different shape one this has more resilience in it one that has inner strength more well-being more virtue more loving-kindness okay the difference though between the positive and the negative is this the brain is much more vulnerable to negative change than to positive change it has a hardwired negativity bias which is what scientists call it that kept our ancestors alive but today makes this miserable makes us less effective at working at home and builds up long-term chronic stress which is a serious risk factor for long-term health problems the reason for the negativity bias the reason why the brain is really good at learning from the bad and bad at learning from the good is that bad events you know predators natural hazards social aggression inside a primate band or between early human bands though those bad events have typically more urgency and impact than positive ones and this negativity bias shows up in lots and lots away so you know for example to come and finding that strong relationships need at least a five to one ratio of positive to negative experiences or the finding that negative experiences get converted to memory get converted to neural structure immediately while positive experiences even though they're the primary source of the inner resources we all need to get to the long hard road of life um positive experiences usually wash through the brain like water through a sip well negative ones are caught every time that's my phrase therefore my phrase that the brain is like velcro for negative experiences and tough one for positive ones so for me one of my take oils now we're getting to the practical point thanks for letting me digress they're all I'll make this practical point and let you get a word in edgewise I mean one of the key takeaways is to be much more thoughtful about dwelling on the negative a much less willing to just indulge myself I want to feel the feelings I think it's important to experience the experience especially frankly as a man who's kind of socialized in my own case to not feel my feelings so I think it's important to be with what's there to hold it in open awareness to a point but as soon as you're not getting any more value from it as soon as you know what this negative feeling is all about or negative preoccupation try to move on because your brain is so vulnerable to being shaped by that negative experience so that's my first take away I'm much you know do not underestimate the power of the dark side of the force do not underestimate the power of negative experiences to change your brain for the worse I think pain is way overrated just amazing and when you talk about resting your mind I just love that phrase reminds me I was having a chat with Sonia Weber murski earlier and she was coming to you know her house of happiness in her new book the myths of happiness and talking about the importance of attention and being able to put our attention essentially where we want when we want which is what we're talking about here right of can--what notice when we're slipping into the negative and can we shift our attention and obviously you know with Buddha's brain meditation is a big part of of your work in your teachings can you talk to us about meditation and why meditation is something that we should all consider integrating into our life in our daily practice yeah that's interesting so well let's see so even though quote-unquote neurons that fire together wire together do so throughout the nervous system that process of building structure based on information flows through the nervous system he is turbocharged for what's held in the field of focused attention attention is like a combination spotlight and vacuum cleaner it illuminates what it rests upon and then sucks it into your brain the problem is most people don't have very good control of their attention as you're pointing out and there are vacuum cleaner as it were rests on crud and it's hard to pull it off the crud and rests it on something much more useful so attentional training such as in meditation is incredibly important you know over a century ago I think as you know William James the Godfather of American psychology said the education of attention would be the education parks alongs because it's it's the mother of all education it's absolutely fundamental so meditation there many kinds of meditation sometimes people bring in a theistic element involving the divine and then it has a quality of prayer other people do their meditation in a way that's let's say agnostic or atheist you know where the divine is not relevant to the meditation either way is fine its contemplative practice either way you know a simple form of contemplative practice that will just nominate two people is pick something simple to use to anchor your attention to create in effect a kind of backdrop against which distracting and feelings and desires and so forth can come and go a common object of attention is the breath because it's always available the sensations of the breath felt generally in the body or in one particular place and then dedicate yourself for a certain amount of time like a minute or five minutes or longer if you want to simply giving yourself over to that object of attention and abandoning all else so it's kind of like a workout Brian you know it's like when I go to the gym I know that I'm either lifting the way or I'm fooling around you know and this kind of meditation technically it's called a focused attention or concentration practice is really good for building up your initial muscles of attention and traditionally interesting even though nowadays in the West people want to jump to meditations that are very cosmic or very much open awareness let it all come and let it go which is very challenging traditionally the concentration practice that I'm talking about I'm just give yourself to an object of attention and stay with it for five minutes or more if you can yes what's taught in the very very beginning so that's what I would suggest to people and I'd also add don't be hard on yourself if your mind wanders that's totally normal the brain evolve to produce a wandering mind because that enabled our ancestors to be more vigilant for threats and more opportunistic for potential rewards it's really okay but as soon as you notice that your mind is wandering come back and then if along the way you can encourage supporting factors like a growing sense of calm or peacefulness or a sense of feeling centered or even a growing sense of well-being that's good to both for its own sake and also because neurologically those positive emotions actually very cool ways support steady attention yeah that's great and one of the things I love about the way that you you present meditation in your book and your work is that one minute you know show up in which we don't need to be levitating monks in the Himalayas meditating for hours on day day in and day out that one minute but then also the consistency of the practice is essential yeah the thing I see we're teaming Brian but you do too is that you know in part because I'm a practicing therapist I'll see people routinely who will work very hard to get good at something that they say doesn't matter much who simultaneously will not work hard at all at getting good at something they will say matters a lot like being a better or more skillful partner or mate or a parent or more skillful and competent with their own thoughts and feelings and being a teacher and a therapist a long time it's maybe I think more compassionate but also tougher in a sense you got to earn it you got to do the work as you say you got to show up but if you do show up it's law of little things lots of little efforts sustained over time will have a big payoff because you will gradually be changing your brain for the better hmm yeah I love that I'm up your focus on the everyday ordinary activities as well as the the personal growth and spiritual practices are really how we can honor ourselves and you talk about being nice to our future self I love the way you framed that can you describe that for us being less sure well it's it it's interesting one of the hardest things here's a little it's a lame but profound joke how many therapists does it take to change a light bulb only one but the lightbulb has to want to change in other words motivation is the key and that's shown up oil boy in research on health health promotion Sonya's work on happiness you know motivation is such an important factor so then the question becomes how do we help motivate ourselves especially to do the things that were not naturally inclined toward or might even dislike and here it is we're getting on your own side is absolutely central you know being for yourself not against others but but being a good friend to yourself and if you're not a good friend to yourself and as Rabbi Hillel settle for a long time ago if not now when then you're kind of dead in the water in life and you're not gonna do anything for yourself at all so one way to motivate yourself I'll name two right now and these are practices I do myself two ways to help peers self become to lean more in your own direction as it were number one build up more of a sense of feeling cared about by other people research shows that if you warm up the circuits as it were of the heart you know metaphorical sense of feeling cared about by their people it doesn't have to be a perfect relationship just a bunch of friends you're you're part of a gang of buddies you work out with maybe could be family and friends could be spiritual beings whatever whatever gives you that feeling it could be a pet frankly whatever gives you that feeling of being cared about marinate in it and when you have opportunities to experience it really take it in which I'll talk about maybe a little bit more in a moment the second because what it shows is that when you do that it Prime's your circuits of being caring yourself including caring toward the one being among all others who wears your nametag that's my first suggestion the second suggestion they have is to use the friend test in other words if you had a friend who had a particular situation or issues or feelings or needs or sorrows or hopes what have you how would you respond to your dear friend and then if you how can I put it or rather if your friend had the same problems as you do why not respond to yourself in the same way to me that's the friend test and as a lot of moral philosophy shows we have the highest duty to the people that we have the most power over well who is the one being among all others that you have the greatest power over it's your future self you know one minute from now when you're from now in the last year of your life it's your future self and that's the one to whom you have the highest duty so I you know when I kind of started thinking about this I started looking at how I spent my day very differently and instead of indulging myself in negative stuff that I knew would kick the can down the road as it were but my future self would have to pick I can't that can up or when I begin realizing how much I would benefit my future self by doing little things these days it helped me become more motivated yes sir well sad I love the friend test and it's interesting with with our little baby here that the kind of baby test has been a big one for me as well of how would I support our little guy Emerson in 15 25 35 years as he's facing different challenges in his life and such an amazing way to getting that perspective and just love that in that idea of the future self and holding ourselves is preciously as we would our own child is so empowering yeah well so one of the other things we kind of started moving toward and I want to I want to hear you describe the importance of our parasympathetic nervous system if you can tell us what is it why is it important how do we turn it on or consistently can you talk about that a little bit yeah sure so as our ancestors evolved they had to deal with changing conditions so different parts of the nervous system developed to deal with this and one is called the parasympathetic nervous system which is basically a wing of this larger network called the autonomic nervous system that's very involved in regulating the organs of the body and also regulating in addition to things like heartbeat and breathing regulating how we engage the world well the parasympathetic nervous system is the most ancient wing of the autonomic nervous system and it is the antidote to this part where the importance really starts coming in it's the antidote to the other wing of the autonomic nervous system the sympathetic nervous system which is our stress response fight-or-flight link so we have both our resting state in which we refuel and repair the body and the mind is in a basic sense of peacefulness happiness and love in terms of our three core needs to avoid harm of approach rewards and attach to others and that's where peace happiness and love connect that's our resting state but we also evolved the capacity to go into brief reactive versus there's a lot of sympathetic nervous system fight-or-flight activation to deal with an immediate threat or a fantastic opportunity but then response to this is mother and Blueprint to have a long period of rest and recovery from these stressful burps the problem is in modern life while we may not have the panic of a zebra you know racing away from a charging lion nonetheless we have lots of mild to moderate chronic stress with no time for recovery in between these waves of reactive stress experiences and that totally violates mother nature's blueprint and has a lot of long-term negative effects on mental and physical health so becoming a master of your own parasympathetic nervous system especially if in the real world you know what I mean you're not gonna go to the condo right you're not gonna go back to the cave you're not you can't sit on the beach all the time you wouldn't want to sit on the beach all the time what are you gonna do yet to me this means since we can't change the world outside we need to become more competent we need to be better friends to ourselves we need to become more fiercely committed to our own well-being including through mastery of the parasympathetic nervous system and a couple really simple things people can do on the fly get that parasympathetic activation going which will pull you out of the sympathetic nervous system stress wave stress response way and then bring you home one is to take several long exhalations those are so useful another is to touch your mouth because the parasympathetic nervous system is involved in both of those exhaling and digestion which begins in the mouth and then the last thing you can do which bill isn't something I said previously is bring to mind the sense of someone of being with someone who loves you because back in the Serengeti it's our ancestors evolved exile is a death sentence so one of the primary pathways to coming home to this basic sense of safety and peacefulness is true feeling cared about by other people and then when you have these experiences to underscore my point about taking in the good take the extra 10 to 20 seconds to let them sink in because you got a brain that's like velcro for the negative itself on for the positive so to defeat that negativity bias and to drive these resource experiences into your brain so you start to install them into your brain as lasting resources take that extra 10 to 20 seconds to stay with the positive experience to help it sink in d yeah yeah that's amazing and that's kind of two things that they wanted to make sure we talked about as well will you just touched on briefly on both the idea of cultivating positive emotions yeah you know kind of adding some some stickiness to that Teflon for the positive and then also said let me hear you chat about that a little bit and then we'd love to also hear you kind of unpack loving-kindness more it's such an important theme to this work and we'd love to start with more ideas on cultivating positive emotions and then then I'll bring us back to the loving-kindness yeah so the positive emotions are on a range of intensity most of them are really mild you know and just kind of a basic sense of well-being I'm having a lot of fun here you know on the 0 to 10 intensity scale if the San Francisco Giants winning the World Series was 1/10 or whatever you know the day my kid was born sorry kid it was also a 10th there's no less not like spinal tap all right well you know this is now a 3 or a 4 which is pretty high most positive experiences are ones and two is even their point threes but any port in a storm so positive emotions are there Pleasant in their own right and hey that's worth having fine but they are very very important building blocks as research is showing of inner resources as well as broadening our view of the world that's a tip of the hat to Barbara frederickson's great work on the broaden and build theory of positive emotions so there are two ways to get to positive emotions number one notice the ones you're already having so often in life we're actually feeling pretty good but we hardly even notice it and then like I said it washes through the brain like waters rest up alternately be very willing to create positive emotions by thinking of things that naturally activate them and I actually go into a lot of detail on this in the book that I'm now writing which will come out in October I'm taking the good so that you people wanted or this interview is still available you know I will there will be a lot more examples of how to actually get these good states of mine going in the first place but then second once you got it going once you let the fire in terms of the three steps of taking in the good if you will step one being activating a positive experience having it in the first place then in the second and third steps you gotta install it in your brain and that's where the second step comes in of adding logs to the fire extend the experience you know help it last as long as possible 10 20 30 seconds in a row help it be as intense as possible and I love it fill your body as much as possible that's the second step of really keeping a benefit of this positive experience rather than just wasting it which is the default setting of the brain and then in the third step prime memory systems by sensing and intending that it is sinking into you that you are absorbing it that whole sequence normally takes 10 to 20 seconds if you fall below that threshold generally it's a and it's a fuzzy threshold but if you fall below the threshold the positive experience does not encode in neural structure it's just wasted contrasting two negative experiences which get encoded immediately so that's the first thing I want to say about positive emotions and another good way to cultivate positive emotions I'll say in passing as a transition here is be nice to other people and maybe that's her loving-kindness comes in so I'll talk about that one very available way for us at any time to feel good is to be happy for the good fortune of other people because somewhere some someone somewhere is always happy about something well there's children laughing or you know parents putting their kid to bed after a long day or someone eating an ice cream sundae somebody making love you know somebody praying someone out of nature or someone's surfing fill in the blank someone's having a good time you could be happy that they're happy that's not a technically loving-kindness that's what's more called altruistic joy happiness the welfare of others but it's available to us also it's available to almost everyone at almost every moment to find good wishes in their heart for at least one other being and that's loving kindness the wish that our other that have being usually combined with emotions of warmth and caring and supportiveness and research shows that if people routinely practice these experiences of loving-kindness that you can actually change neural structure and incline the mind increasingly in this direction which interestingly also tends to activate the motor circuits in the brain so it's not just that we have a sense of kindness toward people the wish that they be happy or compassion toward people the wish that they not suffer in addition to that we start to mobilize increasingly an inclination to to help in any way we can so I think that loving-kindness practice which is something that's become increasingly important to me as a deliberate thing it's something you can do in the formal sense in your own meditation or you could do it more informally including toward this is a fun one I do these kind of like loving-kindness hit-and-runs with total strangers oh so I'll be walking down the street and I'll see someone walking toward me and in a fun way actually it's even more fun to pick someone that I would normally not have anything to do it may be or someone who just seems like really cut from a different cloth for me somehow and then I will just wish them well not in an intrusive way but I'll look at their face I'll see frankly the suffering that's in the face of everyone the stress the strain the knowledge that those we love will eventually pass away to all of that and just wish that person well you know wish that that person become truly happy wish that that person's deepest nearest and dearest stranger someday fulfilled and anyway that's a really good way to build muscles cuz that's fundamentally what we're talking about here you know neural muscle building hmm that's just amazing I'm sitting here looking for it I'd love to chat with you again on your new book comes out we can go into so much more detail on the cultivating positive emotions and what a beautiful exercise felt myself swept away and just the beauty of that so this is all great we can talk and I wish we could for a whole weekend on these ideas I'd loved it I'd love to hear your thoughts on what are your fundamentals one of the big things that as you know a part of optimal living for for me and in my work is the fundamentals what are the fundamentals that we engage in on a day to day basis we'd love to hear you share some of your practices that might inspire the people listening to this yeah thank you Brian well I think too I've already named but I'll just underline them again briefly one is to continually activate the parasympathetic wing of the nervous system by relaxing imagine a needle or a dial inside your mind that goes from green to chartreuse to yellow to orange to red that's your personal stress ohmmeter your stress ometer as it were and you know we can handle pretty sustained chartreuse sustained yellow you're starting to pay a price you know and then when you get to orange its metal-on-metal those brake pads are grinding you know you're through the brake pad now you're starting to do service damage any kind of sustained orange and definitely sustain grip so this ought to be a kind of a wake-up call for people and high-powered careers who are driving driving driving you know you're there's a lot of collateral damage for having your personal you know stress Amin or and anything above yellow in any kind of sustained way so when I notice my needle moving into the yellow and definitely if it's into the orange god forbid the red I really move quickly to try to get it back to chartreuse or even green your long exhalation taking a quick break having some physical pleasure that's another good way to move your stress needle back into at least yellow if not chartreuse or green like eat a cookie you know get a little coffee whatever it is you know or run cold water or warm water on your hands and so forth so number one routine relaxation to know you know the world is very jangling and I figure you know it's on me I gotta be strong I got to step up to not let the world push me around so much number one number two taking in the good oh my gosh I just think we live unless our lives are absolute for and a sadly that is the case for some people abroad and at home even as we speak here that said most people most days are living as if the path before is strewn with pearls and we don't even notice a pearl it's usually or if we do merrily we don't even feel anything about them or if we feel anything we don't stay with it at ten twenty thirty second threshold past that threshold whereby it can transfer into neural coding and we can actually start weaving those pearls into the fabric of our brain ourself in our life so instead of that I say no bring the vacuum cleaner use the power of attention as you're pointing out to stay with summons half a dozen maybe a dozen or more all those little legitimately legitimate valid opportunities for positive experience so you gradually fill up you know your cup you gradually fill the hole in your own heart so I said those those two practices are very important to me and maybe I'll just name a third in passing here um I increasingly I try to see life in an impersonal way and by that I don't mean letting people off the hook morally including myself and and I also don't mean failing to stick up for myself I mean I'm pretty strong advocate for myself but when you start to see the world more as a stream of 10,000 currents all wiggling and hustling and swirling together anything that's happening whether it's an inner experience a momentary thought or feeling or emotion or or physical pain or longing or or happiness whatever or any external event it's just an eddy in this tree some of those Eddie's are more fleeting than others like internal thoughts others are longer-lasting like El Capitan or your mother-in-law or father-in-law I don't want to pick on the mothers there but anyway but everything's an idiom is strength and when you move more to this 10,000 foot view the bird's eye view what's called technically the Paulo centric perspective distinct from the egocentric self referential taking life personally perspective it interestingly activates networks on the size of your brain which pull you out of stressing and knowing and grumbling and a strong sense of me myself and I and help you or aunt alive in a more even keeled way you know a more open heart relaxed way so I would say that's a third practice that I try to do routinely is to see things in a more impersonal big-picture way in which I'm just a part of a much larger whole yeah fantastic again that just loved the vision of the de-stress ometer and that green moving toward the yellow the orange the red taking in the good seeing life in a more impersonal way just really seeing those streams coming and not being quite so attached to the whole process wonderful yeah really appreciate your sharing and I can feel the the fruits of your practice and how beautiful you articulate all these ideas so thank you for that and I'd love to wrap it up with if you can share if you had to give kind of your number one idea your number one tip for people who are passionate about optimizing their lives what would that number one tip be taking them good absolutely taking the good because you know the brain is biased to the negative and also the brain evolved to lie to us what I mean by that is that our ancestors evolved to crave broadly to find and suffer in order to survive and pass on their genes so routinely in terms of our three fundamental needs which map loosely to the reptilian brain stem and the mammalian subcortical region and the primate human cortex very loosely mapping our three needs to avoid harm's approach rewards and attach to others which for me has been a very useful overarching framework in terms of that mother nature is constantly whispering to us be afraid in terms of the avoiding harm system or you don't have enough go get more in terms of the approaching system or you know your your their mistreating you your disconnected you got to get more loved go for it in terms of the attaching system and most of the time that's just a lie we're actually basically alright right now in terms of the aborting system most of the time we're always overwhelmingly filled by moment-to-moment stimulation in terms the approaching system and most people barring those in abject poverty really actually have enough and there plenty of opportunities for a sense of fullness and gratitude and third most of us are we're all all of us are already connected to everything and most of us have been loved and are being loved today and so to me the opportunity in taking in the good is to stick up for the truth the truth that sets us free it ultimately undoes the causes of craving that leads to suffering and harm through the recognition that felt emotionally based in the body based recognition moment-to-moment of the ways that we are already full so one of my practices related to taking their good it's to drive it in to drive the truth into my lying brain 10,000 times over so it finally gets the truth of always prior fullness you're already fed so there's no basis for the craving that leads to suffering it huh you can still like things and aspire without attachment and be ambitious and reach high and swing for the fences and aim for the stars but not based on an underlying sense of deficit which is Mother Nature's model for motivating us to do what it takes to pass on our genes wonderful when taking it that good is this the name of your next book yeah well actually I'm not sure will be the name we're still searching for the perfect title but it's described in buddha's brain i think it's the fourth chapter or and also it's in my other book just one thing it's the second chapter and it's something that people can also see my website Rick Hanson sonf I have a lot of freely offered material there and they can learn more about this practice that oh that's great we'll make sure that we link to you and your great books in the section with this interview and I'll look forward to diving in deeper and sharing this wisdom via philosophers notes whoever else we can help really appreciate you and your wisdom and your embodiment of these practices it's deeply inspiring for me and that we covered so much ground in this quick chat so thank you so much Rick yeah thanks Bryan I could say one last thing in under 30 seconds it's that I think what the world needs now is for seven billion humans to truly take in the good because so much of the world's problems to these days are based on delusions in a broad sense ignorance certainly in terms of the avoiding approaching and attaching systems of the brain and when we internalize a sense of fullness you know we're gonna treat each other a lot better we're going to stop eating up the planet and we're gonna find a way to live with each other in sustainable prosperity and peace amen well thank you for sharing that and thank you for sharing all of your joy and wisdom thank you we hope you enjoyed this optimal living interview please visit brian johnson dot m e for more

Channel: Brian Johnson

Views: 17,526

Keywords: Buddha’s Brain, Rick Hanson, Optimal Living 101, Brian Johnson, PhilosophersNotes

Id: lwcPN6sCUeg

Length: 38min 41sec (2321 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 16 2015