Open Bar #60 - Snow White In Hot Water, Singing Klingons, Witcher Insults The Fans AGAIN

just feel safe all right hello everyone we're back we're not back at our traditional time but we are back nonetheless and yeah this definitely wasn't a cobbled together show at the last minute at all Wednesday it looks a lot like Thursday if you squint like it's like I think we're just embracing the whole midweek drinking thing and yeah I'm perfectly fine with this uh no thank you everyone for joining us for this tonight it's not our normal night but uh I'm not gonna be here tomorrow I'm gonna be flying my way out to Houston for anime Matsuri and I only realized this about two nights ago when I was on a stream with malware and movie cynic um and so yeah we We Came Upon This solution we'll just do open bar on a Wednesday instead this week because we didn't want to miss two weeks in a row did we I just wouldn't be acceptable uh would come after us yeah so yeah last week I was off um getting off to Canada to oversee Rogue elements which was filming so it's currently filming right now actually and it's very cool so yeah um of a YouTuber uh mostly it was just standing around and getting bitten by mosquitoes because man they're brutal out there but yeah it was good fun have you seen like these videos that go viral of people torturing them I I fully support that it's like to get those Psychopathic Tendencies out of you you know I mean I would never condone violence against animals or anything but like mosquitoes are a different breeds nuts some guy had constructed like wooden Saw traps but for mosquitoes brilliant human Ingenuity you know yeah yeah our creativity knows no binds when it comes to inflicting torture but yeah hey ho but anyway we're here and we've got a bunch of stuff to talk about tonight so I guess we should Dive Right In and bring our guests in what do you reckon I think so so let's do it all right so well making her return to the open bar she seems far too classy for an establishment like this but uh we let her in anyway it is the one and only baggage claim hello and welcome back hi hello gents I'm always happy to be grabbing a drink with you guys excellent yeah your place looks way too tidy for the open bar lights I can't accept this it's too classic yeah like 10 minutes ago I was moving from side to side and picking up all the Clutter oh yeah it's all just like a frame yeah it's like a pile right there yeah uh but no thank you for coming back on for this I know it was fairly short notice so I appreciate it oh good cool uh all right our next guest is he is the Legends in the Star Trek community and well the movie review community in general um he knows more about Trek than Oliver North so uh it's a pleasure to have him on as always Mr Robert Meyer Burnett welcome back my friend always always a pleasure to be here and you know I know it's the open bar but I promise you I'm sober today I know I know you know just wanted to make that clear drunk Rob is the best Rob I don't know about that no thanks for coming in for this man I appreciate it thanks for asking cool um and last up we have got um he hijacked his way into this stream because he was on when we were chatting about this with movie Scenic the other night uh and well um this is the second time I think on the open bar but it's definitely good to have him back it is dark hour hey welcome back man yeah second time in open bar third time on the channel that's nice yeah it wasn't that long ago you run actually yeah about two months ago I think yeah yeah um well we I think um back then you were still on just a few hundred subscribers now you're like two and a half thousand so you're doing pretty pretty well I'm I'm trying you know that's it I'm not quitting my job anytime soon though that's all that's it yeah it's a long way to go until that but you'll get there give a few more thousands thank you for having me on again though no I get to have your bike man um yeah well I I guess um I was kind of looking at the the things that we've got on our roster tonight um the first one I just thought it would be nice for a bit of light entertainment really uh obviously you know um sag the the um the writer's Guild everyone's on strike at the moment in Hollywood and a lot of the the big Hollywood celebrities are joining the picket lines to share their thoughts on on the current situation and um not least of which was Rachel zickler the the upcoming Star of Snow White um I was gonna call it Snow White and the Seven Dwarves but it's not anymore it's I don't know Snow White and the Magical Forest people or something yeah yeah thank you for that imagine diverse characters yeah but you know she shared her thoughts on what she believes that she deserves as an actor so let's hear what she has to say I guess um every hour that it is streamed online so um yeah she comes with a little bit of flack for this because I I think perhaps she's misunderstanding why these actors are on strike um when you're when you're headlining a major Disney movie um you're already making millions of dollars um you're not in the same boat as um day player actors who are living paycheck to paycheck and who are literally going to have to um sell their houses um in order to get through this strike period um but yeah it kind of came down to a little bit of um it's all about me um and she's copped a lot of criticism for saying this and I think I I think it's justified in a lot of ways because she didn't really need to take this tack with it she could have just said I'm here in solidarity with my fellow actors and I just want to support them but to say like yeah I deserve more you know you're you're already starring in a major Disney production and you know as much as Disney might be a brand that's some decline a little bit right now uh it still puts you in the top 0.1 percent of all actors ever um to be in that position so felt a little bit ungrateful I guess I don't know what you guys think about is it worth just quickly repeating a quote just in case anybody didn't understand it uh I will do it again no not like I mean as in like you say it well you want me to say it yeah so if I'm going to be standing there for 12 hours a day in a dress as a Disney princess or an iconic Disney princess then I deserve to be paid for every hour that this streams online so anytime someone streams that she deserves more money um which I'm pretty sure is not how actors contracts work you don't get paid that kind of residual um but yeah um I I would have more sympathy if this was um say a stunt man or something who risks life in limb to do what they do um or someone who's really taken on a grueling difficult role um but it's like I wore a dress for a while uh so I deserve loads of more money than the millions I'm already making if anyone forces me to wear a dress I'm going to be honestly paid I don't know I could I could get into it there's a snow white dress she's literally starring in the movie I mean it's it's no one even knew who this girl was like a month ago right until all the photos got leaked and the ridiculous photos of course but I I find it this between this and that interview she did with Gal Gadot where you know it's just this combination of massive smugness and I feel like she's doing her best to just destroy her career before it even begins it's just it's not it's so unpalatable she's definitely not endearing herself to to audiences and yeah like you say that they interviewed with Gal Gadot that was actually made months ago and it's weird how these things just come to light later and then they start getting quite wisely shared but again she seemed to take real pleasure in this idea that they were deconstructing the whole Mythos of of what Snow White was as a classic fairy tale and I just thought well you're losing the very essence of what the story was you know that that's it's it's a hell of a thing to say like we're going to take this um this iconic fairy tale that was basically the the Bedrock of what Disney was built on as an animation studio uh and trash it because it's like daily though um someone's drag racing in the background by the same thing um so yeah to say that and and take real pleasure in it didn't exactly endear herself off the bat and then yeah you get something like this it's um I don't know man I know that like when you get a young actor who suddenly gets thrust into the Limelight and elevated to this much higher position um sometimes all the attention and the power could kind of go to their heads and they end up saying things that they they probably shouldn't you know unwise stuff I don't know if that's just a a part of what we're seeing here maybe she's just uh she's not used to this kind of media attention and she doesn't realize that when you say stuff like that it's either going to be taken out of context or it's going to be very closely listened to and you've got to be very careful about what you say I'm not sure well you know I think what's interesting I think you're right about she's very new to the business and she started out in a big way working for Spielberg as the lead uh in West Side Story and then she was in Shazam Fury the gods now she's going to be in The Hunger Games prequel and then Snow White so she's been thrust into very high profile projects for very high profile production entities and I can understand how you can get captivated by that but I think if you're going to go on to the picket line and obviously people are going to point cameras at you you should become educated about how the business works and you need to understand the economics not all streaming services are the same uh not all Productions are the same you have to understand the structure of how the business works and that's always helpful for everybody who especially when you're out there picketing against you know your corporate minders you need to know exactly what you're fighting and how you're fighting for it so it's never a good thing when you don't hmm um yeah like you're very right um when you say like you need to understand how the business Works particularly if you're in the business like it would help I mean especially when you said something like I should get paid for every moment that it's streaming that's a nice idea but the the reason people get paid is because there used to be a model that has changed um that programming was paid for by advertisers so you had money constantly coming in based on how many people watched and it was all measurable and identifiable and that's how you got your residuals well what's happening now is say for instance on Netflix there is none of that and Netflix might make a hundred shows and two or three of them become huge successes so and everybody thinks that Netflix should be paying out all of these residuals the thing is they don't have an ad based Revenue stream and it's very different so what are the residuals how do you identify how how do how how do the actors expect or sag expect Netflix to pay out residuals because there isn't that economic model that even exists for Netflix whereas when Netflix buys friends for instance for another year in 2019 Netflix paid a hundred million dollars to run friends for a year so that where does that hundred million dollars go well Netflix doesn't own friends so they don't owe any money to anybody except the people that do own friends which is Warner Brothers and the production companies that made friends now it's up to those production companies to distribute that hundred million dollars the way it has been previously negotiated to be distributed that was found money for all involved so everybody got a nice chunk of change in 2019 from Netflix but not from Netflix they got it from the production companies that profited off making friends in the first place so people need to understand all this before they start you know maybe giving quotes on the red carpet or on the strike lines um uh to piggyback off that I mean she doesn't even when it like not only did she not understand the business and she doesn't seem to even understand the concept of like General economics where like you know there's there's a you know everybody's familiar with you know hourly rate salary everybody a lot of people have dealt with that but then there's also contract you know you you agree to this and this is what you get and you can't like you have you would have to go back to the table and renegotiate for your next contract you can't just do it by screaming and that's essentially how that works uh you know most people most people don't work in a contract situation but the ones who do actors and people of that nature should be educated on how that process works completely and it's it's the same across various contracted uh you know Industries but it's she's not working an hourly job or even a salary job she she did what she was asked to do which was act in or I guess it's being filmed now but when you're asked to act in the film once you're done with that portion your section is done the rest of it is all it's no longer part of what you negotiated unless there's some residuals and stuff in there but you've you've completed your task and they've completed their payment that's the next contract for your next job is what how it works that's actually true and in those I always say on my channel you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate and the thing is Hollywood contracts can be Byzantine and Labyrinthian in terms of how big they can be but you know you get you get TV rights you get streaming rights you get physical media rights all of that is pre-negotiated it's all in your contract so when Rachel Ziegler Gets a Job playing Snow White or playing Marie and West Side Story she's very aware she knows exactly what she's going to be getting and and it's it's not a surprise now there has to be accountability um and things have changed because especially in television and streaming there is not the accountability that there used to be which is what the actors are fighting for and I'm I'm I'm a big proponent of that because people are making a lot of money but also the streamers are losing billions of dollars right now because the economic model that they were following they were they basically got into an arms race and they're spending a ton of money making content but that content is not monetized the way it used to be so what's fascinating to me is if you look at like Disney Plus I had no idea just how many shows they're just dumping they're they're making movies direct to Disney plus films that were being made or Acquisitions they picked up some movies from Turkey that they put them on their streaming service and no one knows they're there so they don't perform well and then Disney just dumps these movies from their service never be heard from again and this is terrifying for anybody that spends their days trying to make content trying to make movies do you think they'll dump Snow White onto Disney Plus instead of releasing it theatrically I don't you know that's a real I'm really fascinated by this because again why you know you look at something like The Lion King the live action version is a pretty slavish devotion uh devoted version to the original I mean it's pretty it's pretty there's a lot of fealty between the the favro version and then the original animated version which I you know I think that's what people want and I can say things like I loved Kenneth brana's adaptation of Cinderella I I was taking that I'm like I don't why would I ever want to go see a live-action Cinderella movie but Kenneth Brad I'm a fan of I mean I remember going seeing seeing Henry V his first live-action movie that he directed coming from the Royal Shakespeare company and he made a Cinderella movie that I actually found enchanting plus it had Lily James in it which didn't hurt as Cinderella but but I watched that film and I'm like this is a pretty good movie I I and I walked in primed to dislike it because it it kept the essence of the story it kept that essence of the Cinderella tale and I look at Snow White and I'm like I mean I'm no I'm gonna Reserve judgment till we see more but I'm like what is this movie now supposed to be about I was kind of hoping it was going to be a Time Bandits type of a film like I just recently picked up Time Bandits on 4K and I love that movie you know um David Rappaport who was a little person leading the Time Bandits and there's this great troop of actors in that film and I figured if there's a if there's a Time Bandits vibe to Snow White it could be really good well that was quickly those hopes were dashed in those pictures and I'm like what are you what are you making here what are you trying to do here and how did how did you spend like 150 million dollars on this to lick this box it wasn't on the costume budget that's for sure yeah yeah I mean and it's funny because Time Bandits is a pretty delightful movie you know yeah I remember being quite quite good fun yeah it's a lot of fun you know and I figured maybe snow white could be like that I guess not forward while we're talking here the um Disney quarterly earnings report is coming out like Bob iger's presenting it uh there's a few highlights that have come through already um apparently in terms of Revenue uh they were they've come in at 22.3 billion which is slightly below expectations um and Disney plus subscribers have declined for the second quarter in a row they were expected 151 million they're now sitting at 146 so they're 5 million below expectations you tell me it didn't go up in anticipation of secret invasion I know I'm as shocked as you are I really am but yeah I guess that's that's um the trend that they're on now and I don't know how they break out of it because I don't think they've got any killer movies or shows coming out on Disney plus that are really going to drive people back to that app or that streaming service it kind of feels like I don't know not that they're locked into a terminal decline but I just I don't know what they can possibly offer people that will that will bump them back up again and turn it around well their strategy failed their strategy was that originally and it was went against what they said their original originally they said oh you don't need to have this service to follow these big these big franchises and then they took they immediately took that back now ever you have to that it had to be you have to see all the Marvel shows to understand and the MCU you have to watch the Star Wars shows because that's all we have left and you know because they haven't they haven't made a movie and since when at this point yeah 2019. so their strategy kind of backfired because it pissed people off that they were lied to first of all that's number one number two they make crap content uh and number three they they started losing contracts so it was essentially their entire like smoke and mirror show they were building or uh around Disney plus just is is bottoming out at this point yep um their share prices dropped two percent already uh in light of these reports so it's down at 87 a share at the moment which is pretty rough like I don't know if there's a floor to to their share um but um yeah 87 is pretty damn low I mean that's um they were actually like 150 or something at one point weren't they there's always a floor to every share it's called zero yeah that's true I mean they did things too that this seems silly to say but Disney did not renew its rights to their Cricket programming that's what I meant by the they lost contracts that was a massive massive loss yeah that was a huge loss and it's it's like when you're developing a streaming service Disney can't just rely on its back catalog or it's its latest franchises because there's not enough programming coming in but something like Cricket I mean we in America here we might not be as familiar with it um but all of the world cricket is hugely popular in places like India and and in Australia New Zealand the UK and to lose something like that especially for a population like India that's a monster hit to your service and why would you allow that to happen I mean I presume they were a bit or something because yeah Fox Sports obviously not Fox but yeah um I'm just looking at their like see if you were an investor in Disney right like there's a nice little um table that gives you what you would expect to earn on your investment so um in 2019 you would get a 34 increase which is amazing uh 2019 okay uh 2020 you get 25 increase uh 2021 uh minus 14 which is kind of understandable you know as the pandemic kicking in like everything was uh was volatile at that point uh then you get to 2022 it was minus 42.9 yeah that is horrific imagine if you're an investor with like billions of dollars on the line and that's what you were getting jeez um and this year it's kind of bottoming out at the moment anyway it's like minus two percent so I don't know what's going to be in light of yeah the earnings report but you would think that 2021 would have actually been a better year coming out of the pandemic and that's what they were still like they were still dumping things on on the service so like things that you had you had to watch the service for you know for Disney plus so people would have had to buy it number two people were going back to work do you think that they would have been like okay I'll keep this streaming service you know it got me through you know the pandemic or whatever I'm not gonna like so that you'd think that it wouldn't have been huge drop off with Disney plus but it seems like there was I mean I think the the parks were operating operating a reduced capacity so that really hurt them financially um and yeah I I can only assume like this year because they've had massive flops at the box office you know Indiana Jones that's that's lost hundreds of millions of dollars at the the box office like that has got to fight her into it too I mean that's that's awful but yeah that's what's coming out so far about the earnings report uh I guess we'll get more news as it carries on um and the secret Invasion ended up being like the second lowest ever watched right something something in business rated I think so like I think that's just in terms of audience scores um oh god well I might be able to correct me on that one I think it was one of the lowest watch shows they ever did I think it was the lowest watched uh Marvel show I assume we can all just buy that we don't even need like really because it's just been declining everyone's interest everyone's because it's funny I think was it DOC I was bringing up how um we're gonna need to watch all of these shows to know the context of something like the Marvel which is hilarious by the way like why would yeah people don't even want to see it let alone have to see these other things but it's simultaneously and it sounds like a contradiction but you need to see these shows to carry on but also these shows don't feel like they're a part of a universe you watch through and they just feel Superfluous it's like you've literally managed to crack the worst of Both Worlds they don't feel connected because they feel like important to watch you if you don't understand anything and it's so it's like connected if it is connected it's so convoluted that it's very hard to follow right like with secret Invasion some it's I mean it's a small thing but it just it's like adds to the confusion that um Rhodes you know is is a decoy he's and you find out that he's potentially was a decoy since civil war Civil War yeah so yeah so it's like it's so strange that you're going back in your editing everything that happened in the past it's impossible to connect anything anymore because they're not paying attention I've washed I think everything and I'm I'm still confused I've literally watched every show and I'm very confused about where the actu the universe is at I watch it a lot while I'm cleaning my bathroom so it's impossible to actually pay attention you have to have a really dirty bathroom then because they put out all the time for this I have a really clean bathroom I think it's not opposite yeah what's interesting too is if you go back and you watch you go back to the era of say Winter Soldier and you watch the films that surrounded it they really worked well and there was a lot of excitement there and they the the feeling I don't know if how can I explain it but the the feeling that the like I really was a huge I'm a huge fan of the 23 uh films that make up the infinity Saga I thought for the most part they did a really great job even when things were just good it's still there was still a magic to it and you felt like there was a forward narrative thrust and you know you want you get to Infinity war that movie's wildly entertaining and I I remember thinking I can't believe that I'm I'm watching this movie with all of these characters together as a somebody who grew up reading comics and it was just so fun to watch and nothing that has come from Marvel has a spark to it and I'm fascinated by I I think someone's got to write a monograph that I need to read that that maybe Mahler can explain why this doesn't work I mean overall the whole universe doesn't work it's almost as loud I'm looking at a universe that died I'll try and do this in under an hour um you have five minutes more because I'm with Robert entirely on on Infinity one it's like why did Infinity War happen it's like well the big realization we have in endgame is the infinity war is like a direct consequence of Civil War the The Avengers broke apart and they couldn't take on Thanos they could have beaten him together you know that sort of thing white Civil War happen well because of Age of Ultron and Winter Soldier uh you know caps distrust in the networks and the individuals more important plus uh everything Iron Man and the team did to stop Ultron and all the consequences of that and creating it why did those films happen it's like well you control back drawback drawback even in um Avengers right you it draws from Thor that the asgardians and their control over Earth you know the the tensions of that if you remember Thor's big issue was like if Earth wants to actually enter the fight of like all planets and stuff it's dangerous and you need to understand the consequences uh cap is having trouble because he's like I I agree with everything Shield does in the government and then Iron Man is like why hi and points out loads of these things that aren't it's not the same as when we were fighting the Nazis sort of thing that's that's his sort of stuff and then Iron Man Of course being Iron Man and uh you know he's he's causing conflict with almost everybody because he wants to have control what I'm trying to say is that all of those films support and inform Avengers it makes Avengers a complete package they could have ended the MCU at Avengers to be honest with you and it would have been telling me you've been like there you go uh I agree with you it would have been a perfect series honestly these days uh you have in uh this happens every time but like in Quantum Mania right they've cracked so many forms of technology that are incredible that I think it would change the world forever but no other films know about that same goes and you know I know it was much more popular and stuff but Guardians 3 they introduced those uh instant heal packs it's like can we get those to Earth that would be incredible the the effects would have you go over to wakanda Forever that they've got insane technology and um same for like shangshi with his Rings or um Multiverse or Madness you've got all these spell and it's just like does anyone know anybody exists anymore does anyone take when in secret invasion they were like this is the president I was like is it who's that I don't know it could be relevant in other episodes the things does anyone else know and then like is any other project going to acknowledge the skrulls I don't know and then you have the uh what baggage claim was talking about all these other projects that made Roadie have meaningful moments that's all he's ever gotten in the MCU and they took all of them away just in in a moment when you when you thought oh man look at Roadie like looking after Tony there as he's dying he's like that's not Roadie that's a that's a female scroll it's like yeah what you guys really didn't stop to think about the implications of this yeah that's it right there it's that no one's thinking there's no investment why would I want to see what happens next anymore um what's the point and uh because you've summed it up very you just you know it's funny I never quite kind of codified my mind you just nailed it and you're you're absolutely right and it's funny like how do they not know that you know it's I think of all the shows when I watched it was Hawkeye that made me realize I'm like why am I watching I understand it was an adaptation of a Mad faction story boy am I watching this what I was watching I'm watching this and I'm like what does this have to do I know it was based on a comic run but I'm like why is Hawkeye here he could solve this problem in in 30 minutes and we're wandering around New York and he's not with his family it's Christmas time I'm no one was I'm like why are you why don't you all get into a room and have a conversation this could all be over right now and it was it was this I I still don't know and I've even read the comic run what they were hoping to achieve by that adaptation other than you know introducing us to Kate bishop and potentially the Young Avengers but none of it matters what about how Humanity would be forever altered after realizing Thanos could that there could be another entity that could snap you away how would that affect the religions of the world it's like nobody seems to care and whatever well there's always there's so many aspects to it but yeah like perish and the judge they're Celestial whatever I'm gonna go to church on Sunday to to yeah to pick up on the point like why why did they make that show I think a lot of it was just we need stuff we just need more content for Disney plus and it's like well okay Hawkeye's available the actor's available let's just do a TV show with him fine you know it eats up more space um but yeah like people in chat keep referencing the giant Celestial that's like poking halfway out of the ocean up into the atmosphere never gets mentioned again we're gonna we're gonna deal with it don't worry and it's like yeah but you don't care do you you wish everyone would just forget about it like if nobody was talking about it on social media or or message boards or anything you would never deal with it again you would quite happy people forget it made fun of it that's all we've got she has a little article that said like this guy's sticking out of the Earth by the way it's like I mean wouldn't every geologist say Earth was this close to ending yeah if this thing had fully emerged the Earth would have cracked in half and exploded I feel like everything imagine what it means yeah imagine the most Terror that would grip the population knowing that like there's giant robotic Gods like lurking within our planet there's like entities out there the universe that could snap us out of existence at any moment we can't actually trust that anyone isn't a shape-shifting alien now yeah freaking Galactus could come along and just eat us your computer continues to come alive and just hit for the world please it could turn into a giant tent called monster thing that could like murder your entire family like and remember you would never you would you would be scarred for life you know what they keep referencing though over and over is The Avengers like every show or movie references back to the Avengers back to the 2019 stuff yeah does anybody does anybody remember back in like it was right after the first Avengers movie everyone but he kind of said well like now it's going to cause this issue of like well why don't you just call this person you know to fix your problems yeah why aren't you this is the expanded version of that problem everything Mueller said is the is just the like the fully realized version of you have a universe that is not acknowledging its own existence so like early on they did a decent job of kind of keeping track of okay well the reason why Tony has to deal with this by himself is because cap is doing this at the same time but then as it expanded further and further and further now you can't account for everybody that's doing things the same time because you can't put out content fast enough to do that sorry Onika no no you go ahead I was going to say just as a quick one you could you could honestly do like a really fun little short film or something where it's like Hawkeye struggling with a really difficult local villain or something like that and then like Doctor Strange just comes in and turns his his blood into like acid or something and yes it kills him and then he's like yeah fixed it for you see ya yeah it's over in like five minutes so like when you have like a an extended comic book Universe with multiple writers doing multiple story lines as you go along everybody's accounted for in that storyline because they're being written at the same time released weekly or bi-weekly whatever whatever the schedule for that release is the when you're doing movies and TV shows you can't possibly pump out enough content fast enough to account for all of these characters in that year so that's what like essentially that's when you end up with the situation of well nobody's even acknowledging this because now this doesn't this hurts the script over here so we're just gonna pretend it doesn't exist because it would actually screw up this script but that's what they signed up for and you know they signed up to make a cohesive I'm not saying that it's it's Justified I'm saying that's the problem they encounter and they create themselves it's just yeah it becomes exponentially more difficult the more complexity you introduce the more characters the more like organizations the more factions the more technology it just becomes impossible to keep track of it all it was so easy back in phase one where you just had a constrained group of Heroes with relatively grounded abilities to some extent um but yeah now we're just beyond the ability to keep track of it all it was that short-lived era because age of ultron's events like had an effect and at the end I think they have like that little scene where it's like who are the Avengers right now and they're like War Machine Falcon Scarlet Witch uh vision black widow Captain America we know that they're active then we have Ant-Man a film where Hank Pym explicitly says we can't get the Avengers involved because I don't want the tech going to them we have to do it ourselves like okay I'll buy that next film Civil War all the Avengers are in it's probably the biggest film in terms of actual characters turning up outside of infinity war end game and you can even whether or not the films are even like well written in in every regard you can just sit there being like okay yeah they're all here they're doing things I buy it but um yeah now in in secret Invasion for those who haven't seen it when Furies asks three different times in the series where the of the Avengers he at first he says like it's um they'll get copied so we can't bring them in the secret people the Scrolls the look like I can't do that and then by the end of the show he's like this is a personal issue for me when it regards the end of the world it's like a personal issue yeah and that argument alone but honestly it seems like to me but it seems to me that they wanted to get rid of Nick Fury which is what they've kind of done with the end of this show because Olivia Coleman's character is going to take over I think as the new director of uh it's not called Shield anymore what's it called now it's a safe word or sword no there's so many different organizations yeah she's going to the boss of MI6 and the SAS right she's got all the accolades now yeah yeah but I think that whole conversation she had with Amelia Clarke's character I think I don't know it sounded like to me now that she's going to be the new part of the new Avengers I think she's so powerful she's like more powerful than everyone now well yeah she's bigger than Captain Marvel and Thor and Iron Man and everyone else combined apparently with all the Avengers why why create a character like that because you're just you're killing your ability to tell a story do anything but here's why I think they're doing that I think the original series was written to be as interesting and attractive and engaging to as many people as possible which is why you know 27 movies billions and billions of dollars so many people showed up that's why we're still talking about it right that amazing um you know amazing uh summary that Mahler just did because it it was so well made and it was perfectly done it had the heart it had the concepts that are Everlasting friendship you know good versus evil all these great things and now I feel like the writers don't write for everyone that's why we hear so often people saying it's not made for you and it's it's intentional it's meant to be something that's divisive kind of like you know Modern Art it's like you don't get it you know you're not smart enough to get it and it's supposed to sequester people and only appeal to certain people who think that way and so why wouldn't you then have an extremely powerful female character that can literally destroy anyone and anything and it only appeals to certain type of female viewership and it's perfect okay we we got that box ticked it's it's like it's meant to keep us out of it actually think that the the plot for secret invasion was recycled from what was supposed to be Captain Marvel 2. that's that's been my thought all along that it it's pretty much a seek the series almost runs sequel to perfect to what Captain Marvel was and you take some of the you just plot the Carol Danvers character in there at the end and she could a lot of the powers and stuff it all makes sense if you think about it I feel like they just took an existing plot that they had for something else and just turned it as best they could into something else and it they don't have skilled writers that can do that sort of thing I mean I I think it's no coincidence this has come out when it has because it's in the lead-up to the Marvels coming out assuming it does actually release in November because that seems to be iffy at the moment yeah but um 2025 is that eventually yeah I mean I I know the if the strike's still going on which it probably will be then they can't promote it they can't the actors can't be um on the red carpet or anything so that might actually be a good thing for them I I do sometimes think like generally with actors like today it's like the more they show up the probably the more successful the film will be special especially when it's pretty Larson possibly yeah they actually might release it they might pump the release up early just so that way they can assure it happens during the strike yeah I mean her and Rachel Ziegler need to to tag team or something you know they'd be a hell of a combo yeah snot loss and like one time we got it there's people like oh is this film with scene and she's like I don't know what do you think was that the same interview where like they asked if she wanted to still come back is that the same interview yeah yeah that's what I'm thinking about like you want to come back I don't know do people want me back let me still do it that look that she has dear God she knows how much we hate her all the time people would probably like her for the like the the irony of how that would work I could buy that uh she considers this a big mistake at this point because it's been a lot of years of not working very much yeah yeah I think she'd probably rather do like small like movies like room I imagine would be more in her comfort zone or in her wheelhouse the things that would interest her yeah she's learning what a lot of the actors seem to come to learn uh which is like take Adam Driver right oh yes Star Wars or and nowadays like get the away from me Star Wars Jesus he has that quote where he said that he only does movies like Star Wars because he really wants to do smaller projects that he enjoys but the the big money comes from the Star Wars project so he can essentially fund his lifestyle of not getting paid to do the good stuff he wants to do I assume I assume that's why he took on 65 because oh that was okay I watched that on a plane and I wanted a refund and it was the same with me actually uh I watched it on a plane yeah it's like the only time when it's appropriate it's not going to stuck here for the next 10 hours it's like I gotta watch something funny that was one of the longest 80 minute movies I've ever seen I was like please just end the pacing was so bad I was like no way this movie's that short just like it is yeah I was on a flight to Las Vegas from from the East Coast I was like okay after that was over I was like oh that I must be getting close to my destination I switched over to the destination I was like I'm not even a third of the way there how is that possible I've been I've been watching this move for seven hours I don't understand they never never got to the point of actually having a plot that was the problem no there's no yeah it's just basic stuff um it's funny it feels like it should have been made like 20 years ago when dinosaurs were still kind of innovative and cool but yeah Oscar Isaac is probably the better example at least because he was passionately invested in Star Wars as an IP and now he doesn't want anything to do with it so unless it's for money again a lot of them seem to end up saying that John boyega's the same isn't he because he he's been highly critical of Star Wars so yeah I've got this horrible feeling they'll throw enough money out and then you'll come back don't do it John yeah not worth it to stand there screaming he will not be on the posters take my hand yeah how about a nice little musical interlude no light in our light in the mood and cheer us all up let's watch this twice because I watched it right before the show because I could tell Rob's excited for this and I think it's about time we played it because uh well you know we're we're fans of Star Trek around here or some of us are I'm trying to convert more I'm gradually getting there I'm not really a Star Trek fan either but I can understand why this is extremely offensive to people who are yeah well have you ever imagined I don't know how I can describe but I'm just going to play it actually this is this is what modern Star Trek is everyone it didn't it didn't make it quite fun June Roddenberry would truly be proud to see what his creation has become really silent is actually the only thing you can do with that that's just I just I want to hear what Rob has to say about this all right you know the here's the thing uh I think it's very odd that Star Trek now as an entertainment medium has turned into something that only is self-referential it only is about itself whereas when it was originally conceived it was an action-adventure science fiction allegory that would deal with real world issues in a in a entertaining science fiction action adventure way and I keep this made me think about the first time in Klingons were introduced in 1966 in an episode called errand of mercy and they were originally designed as sort of Cold War Soviet villains and in that first episode um the Enterprise rolls up on a planet that looks like to it's it's stunted in sort of the Middle Ages and the Klingons the first time we see them we see them as adversaries but they're there at the same Planet because it has strategic significance to both the Federation and the Klingon Empire and the Klingons come down to occupy this planet and basically set up a military government and our Kirk and spocko undercovered her to to try and find out what's going on in Fort what's happening and at the same time the indigenous population of this planet really has no interest and they keep saying no there's no problem here and Kirk and Spark like yes there are the Klingons will execute civilians this is not a good thing and the indigenous populations like no no and then at the same time Kirk ends up meeting core the Klingon Commander as an undercover as this character named Barona and the Klingon doesn't know it's the Federation captain and you learn about the Klingons through their relationship of corn and Kirk conversing and you really like the Klingons because they are smart they are funny they're cunning they're really interesting and at the end of the show you realize that the indigenous population are really these incredibly powerful aliens that that are energy beings they're not even they don't even have a corporeal existence they just take on that existence when people show up to their planet so there's a really interesting science fiction story there and then these these energy beings say look uh We're not gonna let you guys go to war we don't believe in that and you actually have both Kirk and core arguing you can't stop us from going to war and and it becomes we as the viewers like my God our hero is arguing for the right to go to war and these these energy beings the oregonians stop it all from happening willing interesting science fiction story you re you meet the Klingons very interesting characters they're they're not cartoon villains you actually like them you admire them you understand their point of view and to see our main character have a interesting relationship with his counterpart essentially the Klingon version of him so they're equals and it's fascinating and the Klingons are always whenever they were involved in the original series there was always a a larger overarching story that involved them to see what we just saw and how they have reduced the Klingons I'm convinced that the only the people that write modern Star Trek they came of age watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer which they admit this whole musical episode was was inspired by was just starring somewhere in the background but the thing is the thing about Buffy the Vampire Slayer was Buffy the Vampire Slayer was a story about high school about coming to coming of age in high school it's just that High School happened to be built in a town that was over a hellmouth so you had the extra added horror fantasy elements but really it was still all about Teen Angst and growing up and and coming of age well that's what they've turned Star Trek into this episode with a musical these musical interludes it was about three romances that were happening on the ship and the end of those three romances when has Star Trek ever done this Whenever there was a romance on Star Trek it was about a character becoming involved with an external individual and there was some kind of a science fiction twist to it that was interesting and compelling now Star Trek is Buffy the Vampire Slayer it is all about the interpersonal relationships of the crew which is a bastardization and a betrayal of the characters and of Star Trek as a whole and when you see what they did to the Klingons it's they're the butt of jokes they're what a Korean boy band their BTS what are they supposed to even be here and I I won't even because you know I don't want to be here for a million years but when you look at something like this you ask yourselves and I would ask myself all right ask the franchise owners what do you think of what they've done with the Klingons even in this sequence they don't even do something really interesting I mean the Klingons we know culturally they have a huge musical Legacy you know we've even seen on various episodes of Star Trek where a Klingon crew will burst into song or sing an opera or something and then to see this which is the most I mean it's it's the lowest of the low it's such a it's so it's such low hanging fruit it's not smart it's just a one-off little joke that's only funny to I don't know who and I just watch this and it just makes me sad when we have other science fiction shows whether it's the expanse or Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica or take your pick when they they go a long way toward creating a viable world that you can believe in well my favorite word very similitude totally Shattered by this scene and I don't think Star Trek can ever recover why watch it after that what does it have to offer other than making fun of itself That's All Star Trek has turned into a parody of itself across many different shows and it's uh I I think um when it came to Star Trek's vision of the future there was a kind of Timeless element to it because they never they never delve too much into pop culture of the the 23rd Century because they knew it would it would come across as goofy and it would date it really quickly because it would be whatever decades interpretation of the future uh and so like when you hear characters listen to music it's usually classical music because that's Timeless all that stuff um and it took itself seriously yeah there was occasional episodes that were a bit more goofy or you know uh what was it uh the naked now or whatever and in TNG where everyone's drunk and stuff but like generally speaking it wasn't a show that mocked itself it didn't it didn't become self-referential like you said uh but something like this just smacks of we need a gimmick we've come up with a gimmick and we're just gonna run with it because we can poke fun at ourselves um and it just it dates it so much because even the musical style is so like current day it's so contemporary when someone watches this back a few years from now it's just going to be like oh God so cheesy like even more so than it is already it's fourth wall shattering you know it it destroys the reality like you you would never see yeah you'd never see Galactica do something like this version yeah and I think with something like Buffy okay you can get away with some crazy musical episodes like that because there was a Fantastical element to Buffy already it's dealing with the Supernatural and it was a show that had a kind of tongue-in-cheek um emotional tone to it a lot of the time in an episode like that a lot you could consider it a gimmick episode but the sad fact is that loads of people thought it was so good because it was but they decided to try and copy it when they don't understand like Buffy came up with a whole narrative for why it was even happening it's basically a curse that's set by a demon that makes everybody uh more honest about their feelings his goal is to make everybody like cause complete chaos by having everybody admit how they actually feel which they do through song different characters get exposed like some of the biggest Revelations come from that and it's all uh written and directed with care from the guy who created the whole show he wanted to make sure this was all very specific and very purposeful you get all kinds of different kinds of singing a lot of it is subtextual and uh mostly the episode is one of the most tragic episodes there is people are admitting just how much they kind of hate each other and how much this is difficult and some of them are and they don't even want to be alive like this this stuff is is heavy and it impacted audiences heavily wasn't because it was a musical it was a hell of a lot more to it than that it's such a shame um that this has happened so many shows try to copy Buffy for that when it was like you gotta work harder than just having it be Musical well and the thing is yeah there has to be some depth to it at the end of the days I think that's what is really really missing too like I'm gonna just briefly go back to secret Invasion but you know every time anything bad was anything bad was happening you know there was no true emotion like given um you know his you know Fury's friend is dying in front of him and he's starting to shapeshift back into a scroll which only happens when they're starting to die and there's no reaction from him or you know Amelia Clarke's her father passes away she finds out there's not a tear she has that same monotonous expression at all times and what you're saying Mueller to have something like the if if the basis of the of the interaction is that people are going to be more honest then you're going to hear things that are very that people have been sitting on and bearing very deeply they don't they're not telling people for a reason and that's so it can be like the fun aspect of it where you find out that oh someone doesn't like someone oh that's kind of funny but also like oh they hate themselves they want to die like those that's that's what makes a show good is that it can take something very realistic in an unexpected way and and Raw on draw on your own depth of emotion pull you into it make you feel with it and drink or what you were saying about the timelessness of TNG like there's so many times I go back and watch that episode I think it's called drum head if I'm remembering correctly but every once in a while I go and watch that episode because the lessons that that episode goes on about about how tyranny can just surface in in moments of intense fear and how it can just take over and and and create more suffering I mean that's such a Timeless message that even even that's what we're going through today right cancel cultures is based entirely in that yep no just don't well let's just say Mahler points out that once more with feeling is a A Beautiful episode of television and it's so well conceived and it works so well because the show itself is a supernatural fantasy but also a show it's a Teen Angst show and so those things work really well together and it's beautifully conceived and Star Trek was never that and what they were trying to do is take the Buffy Paradigm and impose it onto Star Trek so rather than make a Star Trek episode that happens to be a musical they've made an episode of not just Buffy but a number of different shows where the central Focus was about the interpersonal relationships of the crew and that was never a focus of Star Trek they would have an episode that might deal with something in a larger context but the interpersonal there was not ongoing interpersonal relationships in Star Trek it's not really would you think that's what they're trying to do and like they've got a bunch of like 30 40 year old actors pretending like they're they're teenagers like they've got the emotional development of teenagers that's exactly what it is I mean Spock is Spock is a high school the Spock is Sheldon from Big Bang Theory and that's that's all they know how to write because that's what they grew up writing they do not know I the the writing staff of current Star Trek does not know how to write Next Generation or the original series and and I think because they they don't know how to write science fiction what they do know how to write is what they grew up watching which was Buffy the Vampire Slayer or angel or Big Bang Theory that's all they know how to write and so Star Trek is now missing what its Essence was and that was allegorical science fiction that had action adventure slant they don't know the science fiction part of it all they know how to do is write interpersonal I mean Spock is jumping from bed to bed now he's he's the the lothario that that they talk about Kirk being and Spock as a character wouldn't bring relationships interpersonal relationships into a work environment he would not be tapping his co-stars or his co-workers or his Shipmates he wouldn't do it but to pick up I'm sorry no there we go it's piggyback on that you're everyone's saying you know that they were influenced by Buffy like I know that you mentioned that this is going to be like kind of a time capsule of its own existence like it's music from the era I don't get that at all I to me it looks like something from the late 90s to Mid 2000s and it seems like that's a hundred percent accurate as to what you guys are saying is that it's 100 that I'm just writing what they want it to be like from what they remember I don't I I feel like I'm watching like a commercial for like some product or something from like the 90s like late 90s it doesn't it doesn't come off as current even it it's a time capsule of something that isn't even currently going on and that's that's that makes it even weirder in the greater scheme of things that they're it's a throwback to something that doesn't even make sense for what they're trying to do it's it's particularly disappointing for what strange new worlds was billed as because it was supposed to be a return to the TNG episodic format of Star Trek where they go on a new adventure each week they're gonna you're gonna encounter lots of like thought-provoking science fiction that's gonna like expand your horizons and really get you to look at things from a different perspective like what Star Trek was always meant to be about and it was always Builders like you know this is the the hopeful optimistic one that's how they kept using those words like all the time in the the promos for the show uh and when I see stuff like this I just think no it's just it's turned into goofy um self-referential mockery of Star Trek it's not the same thing as just being light-hearted you have to at least have um you know when people say lighthearted they want optimism they want that optimistic vision of what Humanity can be but like crossed with some intelligent science fiction writing but they're not getting the latter you know I keep thinking about there's a there's a great science fiction novel that I always go back to I think about it a lot a book called Blind sight by a guy named Peter watts and in it it's a first Contact story about an alien race that is intelligent but not conscious and we're unable to communicate with them and this this me this it might result in the end of humanity but the idea of finding it's such a compelling idea in the way it's presented in this book is so strange and and interesting and and and you grapple with you don't start stop thinking about this that's what modern Star Trek should be it should be examining interesting science fiction Concepts that that are sort of based in our world today there's so many interesting things going on right now with Humanity that could be great for any kind of an episodic show of Star Trek we're not getting any of that at all it's All Star Trek episodes are doing now is referencing other Star Trek episodes it's bizarre there's no real stories there's no real news stories where they're taking heady sci-fi Concepts and grappling with them and having them reflect back on our world today and it's strange and I don't understand why is do you think um the season three of Picard is going to be the last good Star Trek we get for a long time I I do I mean I I do and I I think that that and even look Star Trek Picard season three I really loved it but it wasn't perfect no you know it still was saddled with but but it tried to further the Star Trek universe the best way it could even though it had to deal with things that happened in Picard seasons one and two but it brought back our characters and showed them in legitimately interesting places uh 30 years on and and what is that what does that mean and you know I think that I would love to if you look at Battlestar Galactica Battlestar Galactica the re the the Four Season reboot it never betrayed whether you agreed with how it ended it it set up a a situation it's set up its premise and its universe and it never betrayed that it never suddenly threw in a boy band you know and and and when it wanted to do something it literally did an episode where we're all gonna get in the boxing ring and fight you know that was a great episode it's a great it's a great episode because within this situation well how are you going to deal with it you're not going to sing songs you're gonna get in and settle your differences you're gonna put the gloves on you're gonna get in the ring and you're gonna beat the hell out of each other because that's the kind of way you deal with problems in that situation and like you said great episode of television that show was way ahead of its time when I look back now was that like 2003 the mini series started yeah yeah great like 20 years ago Jesus and that's what great science fiction did you know can I can I ask you as fans of Star Trek what did you think of the reboot the original movie not I don't say original the reboot movie with Chris Pine what did you think of that movie again I no I I really disliked it because it all of modern Star Trek is like if you had a pop culture sense memory of what Star Trek might be that you just you got through watching Simpson's parodies and you watched William Shatner on Saturday Night Live saying get a life all of it comes from that perspective and JJ Abrams would say if you go back and look any of look up any of his interviews he said I never liked Star Trek growing up it was too intellectual for me too philosophical for me so Star Trek 09 while I admit love the cast and maybe it's an entertaining watch what it is is somebody trying to turn Star Trek as a concept into what he wanted it to be which was more like Pulp sci-fi more like Star Wars and it has arguably the dumbest villain in the history of Cinema the villain goes back in time and he's mad because his homeworld's been destroyed by a supernova and he goes back in time and rather than go and warn these people and say you know in 100 years we're all gonna die he doesn't do that he instead is mad at everyone and wants to uh visit his vengeance upon Everybody by blowing up planets and I'm I kept thinking as I'm watching it bruh you could go back home to your home planet and warn everybody that a hundred years from now this Supernova is going to kill you all but now you have a hundred years to prepare and maybe prevent the Supernova from happening but he never does that yeah you have a second chance yeah literally yeah literally every um movie of the the the new Star Trek is just crazy guy on a Revenge trip with a doomsday weapon that's basically every movie and yeah it's the best way I can describe it is like is just literally Star Trek viewed through the lens of JJ Abrams yes and more like you know JJ you know what he does to movies this is this is him he works his magic on Star Trek pretty sure his rebooting of Star Trek is what like earned him rebooting Star Wars isn't that insane yeah I mean it's just purely because it made a lot of money because they turned it from uh an intelligent um thought-provoking piece of sci-fi that appealed to a relatively small core audience to a big bombastic action sci-fi Adventure that's what he turned it into with like young actors running around super energetic super frantic stuff exploding constantly um you know don't think too much about it because we're moving on to the next scene go go go that's all it is ADHD yeah rapid fire stupidity so you don't have time to question how dumb it is you just move on to the next explosion and set piece uh you know Chris Pine with a giant sausage fingers trying to press the keypad because he's been infected with some weird thing yeah all that stuff it's just dumb move on don't think about it um that's what the movie is but it was successful for a time but it's not memorable no and it has virtually no pop culture uh presence it left no footprint people knew it knew it got made but nobody's nobody goes back and talks about it yeah I mean like for example more if I was to ask you because you've seen one Star Trek movie so like when I when I ask you about the Wrath of Khan what does it make you think about like thematically it's a movie Benedict is what I think of yeah think about the original one well to be fair because I don't know if you don't but I've seen the the Abrams 2007 and the uh Into Darkness one okay so it was interesting that I could yeah I sold that one before I saw Wrath of Khan so how sad well I can ask you yeah well I can ask you then so if Wrath of Khan what did that give you to ponder as a viewer oh dude it's really really good movie it's cool to watch a movie that's got such a high reputation and it can live up to it it's uh when because I was joking just then like it completely replaced any memory I have of um Khan as a character from like JJ's attempt at it now I think about like what is essentially one of the stronger villains I've seen in in any kind of context that relates to Star Trek granted I haven't seen a lot of it but of course your show I assume you want to show me highlights not just uh every single villain ever came across but yeah it was um for anybody who doesn't know we have a commentary about it so if you want to know like two hours of me and drink his thoughts on it it exists out there but it was how can I summarize it other than saying um it was a super engaging very uh well-reasoned and quite a terrifying or simultaneously um endearing sort of force to be reckoned with that did exactly what we were just talking about with the musical with Buffy it convinced people like JJ Abrams we got to get a guy who's angry and revenge and he has to have a history that everyone is angry blah blah you know I mean like it's it's sad to see it strip so bare that you're like oh that's how that happened because everyone likes Wrath of Khan oh so that's like every modern movie Just because the the somebody on a Revenge trip like formula nowadays yeah it's it's not just Star Wars and Star Trek it's just every movie across the board is a Revenge tale anymore well and as well I direct you to the the budget of this because I'm pretty sure um Wrath of Khan was like 20 million dollars or something back in the day which is oh it's less than crazy less than that yeah so you're talking maybe 50 million in today's money um versus like the new Trek movies which were like 150 million each at least uh and like they have like one 100th of the the artistic Merit in terms of what they accomplish but I don't know I just think that's interesting like listen I have to jump out I I'm sorry I I only had an hour but uh I want to thank you for bringing me on this impromptu panel baggage claim Dark Hour Mauler it's been great to stream with you I will watch the rest of this as I have to go to my meeting but um thank you for having me thank you Rob it's absolute pleasure to have you on as always man thank you and thanks for that shout out again on the Russell Brand Show that was very sweet no problem all right thanks bud cool um yeah I mean what's that I said I'm larger now yeah it might go to your head be careful I don't think my head should get much bigger the other little thing I was going to touch upon was um the I don't know you guys are too familiar with the Witcher and how it's been doing uh this season but it's been a bit of a disaster um and it's sitting at about 20 on Rotten Tomatoes in terms of the audience score really absolutely yeah it's Fallen Cliff unfortunately no that that seems that seems a bit up there for it actually it does yeah um but yeah it's sure there's absolutely self-destructed over the course of a few seasons like just three really and I'd be highly doubtful if they even get a season four at this point but uh you know the the showrunners and producers behind it have been talking about it recently and one of them shared his thoughts about um why it is the way it is uh so if you bear with me a second this quote comes from Forbes it was an interview with Tom so a producer on The Witcher um he said that uh trying to explain the style that they went for with this when a series is made for a huge mass of viewers with different experiences from different parts of the world and a large part of them are Americans these simplify simplifications not only make sense but they are necessary it's painful for us and for me too but the higher level of neurons and complexity will have a smaller range it won't reach people sometimes it may go too far um but we have to make these decisions and accept them basically saying that they simplified um The Witcher because they didn't feel like American audiences could handle the the level of complexity um so it goes on um what's uh yeah the audience changes it's not like um I see the processes that they wrote up in uh sorry that the author wrote in his book after The Script we resigned from cause and effect change and from linear narration uh this book like narration when it comes to shows the younger the public is the logic of the plot is less significant the interviewer asks them what is significant then and he says just emotions just pure emotions a bare emotional mix those people grew up on Tick Tock and YouTube they jump from video to video and the interviewer says you're talking to such a person right now and he says okay it's time to be serious dear children what you do to yourself makes you less resilient for longer content for long and complicated chains of cause and effect so essentially saying The Witcher is made for young people and young people are dumb and they live on Tick Tock and they can't handle complex narratives now this is coming in the the wake of well what do we have Game of Thrones House of the Dragon fairly complex narratives on the go there um yeah that's it's a pretty arrogant way of looking at your audience I mean what happened to the push and pull of you even if this was true right and to be fair especially with my recent interactions with the twitch reactors I found that like audiences maybe they are a little uh you know they jump from thing to thing real quickly but what happened to the whole idea of like the market does React to what people want but also provides things the market didn't even realize it wanted you know what I mean it's like hey people check this out and you're like I don't care about this and you're watching you go oh maybe I do care about okay yeah this is gonna be interesting you know that's instead of being like ah it emotions everywhere I don't know well it's a pretty it's a pretty dangerous road to go down as well because if you go on that basis um you are just gonna endlessly dumb down whatever you make to the point where it's just a bunch of random uh colorful images playing on screen with lots of sounds uh just to grab people's attention then it means absolutely nothing um but it doesn't matter because it's like you've successfully held their attention for the length of a tick tock video and so that's good enough um is that is that what you want your art to be like I thought there was more for something a little bit higher than that I'm sorry I'm American yeah yeah it's just like yeah it's going over our American heads 15 seconds was the most I was gonna listen to Utah all right I'll distill it then then like how dumb do you want your art to be you know I mean there is a dumb art good like yeah there is I think anybody can kind of separate themselves in that I mean assuming you have any level of thought you can have your your things that you want to think more about and then you can have your dumb fun over here they don't necessarily have to cross over like you don't need to take this series that is I don't know how many Witcher novels there are I know there's three games I know it's a very deep lore uh but you don't necessarily need to take this incredibly complex thing and try to boil it down to for stupid Americans and young people who like Tech talk uh you can make it and it has an audience it has lasted this long for a reason let it be for that audience it's fine maybe you will pick some people off from a different or like a different you know group as you go along and someone will catch it and be like they're like a Henry Cavill fan and they're like oh let me check it out oh it turns out I actually do like this I'll look further into it which is really the way they should have went with it and it seems like they went they took the exact opposite thought process on that I mean there seems like a high degree of cope with it as well like we we basically changed a bunch of stuff from the books and like nobody liked it so it's clearly their fault there's that too but it's just it's weird thing that you know with the rise of tick tock there's this assumption about the general consumer but they ignore what's also happening in tandem which is the rise of long-form podcasts which are I mean yeah there's Tick Tock and then there's Joe Rogan who's like the most you know watched podcaster ever and it shows that people are willing to spend three hours and listen to something really complex with diverse thoughts diverse Concepts and explore ideas that might be hidden from them right in other in other places so this assumption that oh we should just go for the lowest hanging fruit and try to get attention from teenagers who probably are not interested in this anyway versus how about just going for a more sophisticated viewer which is the general viewer I think it's like they're they're things teenagers do and then there's content that 30 year olds want to watch 40 year olds want to watch 50 year olds want to watch but it's this it's this desire to constantly go for teens and I don't know if there's this insecurity that these writers have like they want to be looked at as cool which is why they would put in that kind of you know dance number in a star text Star Trek series like why not just do something that is for your age group like and I'm talking about the writers why do you need to dumb things down for kids when did they become like running why are they running everything every piece of art I think it's because every production company puts such an emphasis on the younger demographic that the writers just kind of get into this whole like well I have to appeal to that that's to keep my job I have to do this I have to do this and there's like it's not they almost treat it like it's the only demographic whereas there is other ones it's like yes they're smaller demographics but or maybe less and less important demographics but they are still exist and it seems to be that they just get forgotten because the production companies make such an emphasis on this particular one um stream killer sorry about that it's like one point made from point made I'm done I'm out of here see you later yeah uh no I'm doing it's funny I was just looking there for the the quote from the showrunner as well but um why they decided to structure the show the way they did because um there was a much greater focus in this show particularly Seasons two and three on Jennifer and Siri than there was on uh geralt who's the main character he is The Witcher in The Witcher uh and you think that would probably make him the focal point but apparently not and um the I'm paraphrasing it slightly but there's a quote from um Lauren history who's the showrunner who basically said like the the fantasy genre is not particularly um female Centric never has been and so I wanted to see myself represented um within that because um it's it's not something I'd gotten to see in the fantasy genre before uh and so I made the decision to focus more on Jennifer and Syria and basically take um screen time away from Geral in order to give them more fleshed out characters and more more plot to to occupy them um which is an interesting choice because he was essentially the thing that was selling your show um and I think it makes a it makes for an unusual decision to minimize your protagonist in in his own TV show um yeah I think uh I think Gary had done a video just recently about this where they tallied up the amount of screen time that garopp gets and it amounts to something like 20 of of the actual screen time in season three is devoted to geralt damn whereas the the rest of it just goes to Syria and yennefer uh which is a shockingly low amount for the main character um and it probably anything you want to travel left but if you want women to tune in to a show like this if you want to attract that audience we love Henry Cavill he's like the fandom around Henry Cavill is incredible people find him so Charming so he's just like he people often cite him as the perfect man and he's so attractive people are people are correcting me here sorry 16.9 so I was myself so it's not unheard of to have sections of your show that like this episode focuses on this person this episode focuses on this person but to you always generally bring it back to the main character you don't I mean now I know that there was like the whole The Fallout with him going on uh which probably also they're probably like playing down playing that aspect of it like and saying like oh we're you know we were doing it like this because this is what we wanted to do but it might have also had something to do with that but you usually work your way back to the main character after those pocketed episodes about somebody else so it is a little strange that in that thought process I think it was very much like an unwanted passenger for most of the show like they they didn't particularly want them there and I think honor from what I understand on a personal level like the the showrunners and the writers didn't get on with Henry Cavill because he was questioning them yeah where he was like they wanted him to have like a sex scene and he was like no it's not in the book yeah something like that like so it's like like he was clearly not gelling with what they were trying to do yeah well he was actually having to beg them for more lines at times apparently because he's like can I please do something in this episode is that yeah how is he getting mistreated left right and Center when he's so popular with audiences we got kicked out of Superman when he was like a great Superman and it's just it's so weird like you have talent on your hands use him I I think Superman was just bad luck because I think they came from two different directions Superman was bad luck he he you know was mishandled they did they didn't know what to do with his version and they couldn't get past the Zack Snyder curse no with The Witcher I think the straight up just didn't want him in it um they didn't like the fact that he knew the lore better than they did um they didn't like the fact that he corrected them on stuff and was fighting to to maintain accuracy um I yeah he just became a pain in the ass for them which is yeah it's such a shame because if they'd worked with him he would have been their biggest Advocate and yeah I would have absolutely endeared them to The Fountains but instead they decided to go to war with them and force him out and it's like well now you've essentially killed your show because nobody wants to watch it without him you um but with Justice League how is it possible that he has been kicked out but then they're keeping Gal Gadot like how are they I don't know if you guys know more about that like what is what is the plan well you see they're only keeping the greatest of the acting talent in the pool she does look really good in that suit so obviously I I opted not to say that it's just what you have to talk and like emote and stuff that's where Things Fall Apart so bad I I I I didn't think there was many people who could put less emphasis into their like you know inflections than me but apparently there aren't I I can't wait to see her as the evil queen in in Snow White yeah because that a character like that I I would assume right if I was gonna say it's not going to be about the looks but in her case apparently it is but like they have to be charismatic as because you're a villain you know you have to own the screen when you're the antagonist and I just I don't think there's enough going on there I think as part of the quote you were mentioning by the way they said like they want more they want to see some female-centric fantasy right see myself in there get they get that going it's like how many times are you gonna say that's the reason behind it without acknowledging like did they watch Willow did they watch rings of power did they watch I mean did they even acknowledge that like uh what's called blood origin was essentially that too and it's like you won't be able to pull this card forever if you keep making them because I assume what they actually want is a female-led female-centric sort of fantasy thing that is successful yes that is exactly what it is you hit the nail on every head right there I mean all these are going to get forgotten you know in a year's time when someone says like I want to see a female-centric fantasy girl what about Willow they'll be like no it was the same thing with Comics though it was like we wanted they wanted to see a successful female comic character it worked with the first Wonder Woman and then it kind of like just started being bad those it's like okay work that time so let's just keep going yeah what was the the other court it was um I I might have been Rachel zego talking about Snow White where it was like oh she's not uh it's not going to be about romance it's going to be a bit harder to become a leader and stuff and leader that was the Red Carpet not 1930s anymore yeah and it's kind of like it's uh it's really about her own power um and it's funny they keep using that word power all the time now it's weird um but anyway um yeah it's uh post-modernism is all about power everything's good power it kind of seems to be it's just like you know when a certain term or a buzzword or whatever just keeps floating to the surface from multiple people at the same time you're like is this some kind of weird push that's going on right now I don't quite get it um but yeah like when you when you hear stuff like that it's like um okay you're you're acting like this this whole idea of like a self-actualized empowered female character is like some crazy New Concept that we've never heard of before like it's essentially been at the core of like every Disney production for the past 10 years now like how many more times can you keep pushing this as a new idea before we just say no this is this this is the status quo now you know there has to be a new idea beyond that I guess but uh you know that's how it gets marketed at the moment eventually we'll get to the point where it's like oh we gotta really start pushing male pen the fancy like power fantasies yes there's just not enough of those out there I'm going in for a Ken movie I want to see it happen there's nothing wrong same thing with Barbie there's something that's the same thing with Barbie too right like it's completely devoid of the concept of love right like Ken thinks that he should be in this relationship with her because it's because he's typical Ken and she's typical Barbie and there's no room for romance stereotypical there you go uh not typical uh but there's no room for romance or love and that's why you don't really see that between any of the characters even that brat of a daughter that Barbie has to talk to her parents are like it's they're like asexual friends in the way that they talk to each other and the only like with a lot of these modern movies the only love that's really allowed seems to be self-love like you should be high-fiving yourself and be really self-obsessed and really into yourself or into promoting other women and and uh you know like raising them up and telling them how awesome they are so friendship is fine female to female but any love between a man and a woman seems like a very Antiquated idea now I mean I get I I can sort of get the the message of you know you need to learn um to find who you are to to um you know to explore your own like desires and stuff in life and uh and find out what you truly want to be which is fine as a first step but it has to lead to something else like you can't just stop there and be like well I love myself now and that's all I need in life me you're like you know you need something else you need someone to share it with like you've got to go beyond that and it's like yeah a lot of these movies don't want to take that step because they seem to equate being in a relationship with someone to being somehow dependent on them or owing them something or being chained to them like they see other people as some kind of millstone that drags you down um yeah you know instead of something that like like lifts you up like gives you more motivation to be a better person it's it's an odd but it comes it comes back down to the post-modernism idea is that the belief is that every relationship according to postmodernists is based on Power and there's one person that is imposing their will on the other so that there's so their belief is there's no such concept of free will love where it's a mutually joyous connection instead no it's usually the woman is being subjugated by the man so that's the whole their whole perspective on marriage is that it is a power play where men benefit from everything and women benefit from nothing hmm and well yeah it's a weird thing to teach people like if that's your young impressionable audience to teach them that like how are people ever meant to get into relationships or are they meant to or are they just go out become a wage slave work in some cubicle office for the the next 40 years and just be missing I'm a leader a girl boss ier yeah it's such a yeah for a reason yeah again it's a strange thing to tell people that you need to be because the majority of people don't want to be leaders not because like not because it's bad or anything but like it's just not their proclivity and it's like you're you're kind of almost teaching them oh if you don't become a leader of people if you don't have people under you following you then you're somehow not measuring up you're a failure but that's again this that's not a realistic standard for the average person to to Aspire to it should be something more fundamental than that that's what I guess that's what stories that's what movies fairy tales whatever you want to call them use to teach people like finding fulfillment in other ways I guess not now yeah yeah find fulfillment in the products that you can buy that's pretty much it our products yeah you're crippling loneliness that's fine like it's it's like all the stuff that they said in Fight Club you don't want yeah yeah that's basically what it is the the classic dichotomy of like modern society is like working a job you hate to buy things you don't even need or want yeah but yeah it's framed as a good thing in in that movie it's a it's a really interesting choice I suppose um but we do have a bunch of super chats here that have been piling up so while we've been doing this um would you guys be up for answering a few yeah if this is my favorite this is actually my favorite part because it's always like a surprise something kind of turn into yeah who knows um blank face says I know I'm early but you're already late and gay well joke's on you because we were only a couple minutes late so and the great part was intentional yeah it was really gay because we're Ken's for the night you know what can you say John Smith says Barbie is The Birth of a Nation of our time he also says get what grow broke is a cup Barbie smashed a billion it did I mean we can't deny that it made a billion dollars there is anomalies in life though yeah I mean we we were talking more quick and Dark Hour actually when we were on movie cynics um stream a couple of nights ago theorizing about how successful it was and why and you know there's various theories going around I think the marketing was fantastic for it I think um it gave women like a movie that was just straight up Taylor Made for them it wasn't like oh hey you know there's a superhero movie that's traditionally male oriented but like it's kind of for you as well like this was just straight up no it's Barbie you know this is the thing you played with just unambiguously female this is a movie for you maybe that's what got them in I don't know yeah yeah you know everybody dressed up and it was it was like a fun thing that you could plan with your friends like oh let's all get dressed up and go we don't like we don't get opportunities to do that and like we enjoy that and I think the other part of it is that it did actually hit the mark on of adequate escapism because it was cool to see Barbie land and all that and that the the woke messaging was not as pernicious and obvious as the other art art that tends to be made right now I think it wasn't as on the nose like I think people could ignore it and like put it away and say like ah let's just keep watching it's it's like it's a popcorn movie let's just enjoy it and move on I think once she got past the first 20 minutes then they go into the real world it starts to become a bit more obvious in terms of the messaging but yeah William Hayes kind of summed it up well it's like you've had like probably a hundred failures of movies like this where you've had one that's done massively well like does that like disprove the trend or is it just an anomaly I don't know one thing is someone who doesn't really go with that as a trend I think the people who point it out I mean you know people have done this with me right it's like superheroes are on their way down and Guardians of Galaxy 3 comes out it's like ha you were completely wrong it's like what do you mean it's still trending down yeah one thing doesn't change the trend um and I also think like we we're so attuned to it like all of us here we're commentators on on wokeness in movies right so we pick up on it so much more than other people and I saw this and how other people my like friends who are not as plugged into this all because they're not thinking about this all the time their perspective one was like yeah it was a little woke but it was fine like they didn't it didn't hit as hard whereas for us we we're so we're like finely tuned instruments on this now so we pick it up all the time it also did a really good job of undermining its own message which helped like it like it can constantly made like made points that were antithetical to what it was trying to actually say so it like offset itself a lot of times yeah because the end messaging was that it's oh you should you know can't I just be regular a regular person do I have to be a boss right that was like the end-all message I was like I just wanted I don't know I I walked out with about 15 minutes left to beat the traffic so and it wasn't yeah I'm sorry it's a movie theater I'm sorry I ruined I ruined the ending I'll I'll survive I'll survive don't worry I should have warned you the the weird yeah the the final message seemed to be almost like well you know it's less important about fighting each other and more about like just accepting yourself and learning who you want to be but also women are on top like that little like muttering under the breath at the end of every argument that's kind of what it is uh yeah yeah Martha is asking open bars a day early is in this economy uh yeah we wouldn't normally do this obviously but I'm not going to be in the country uh liquor is more cheaper on Wednesdays yeah I'd say so um and Josh Noble so many couples are going to dress as Barbie and Oppenheimer for Halloween this year yeah I want to see the guys dressed as an actual like atomic bomb that'd be great shirts though so I probably have to dress as Barbie yeah Normie says the Barbie sequel should be called Barbie two the wrath of Ken but make it R-rated and very gory I think I think we can make that work you know since I since I didn't get a chance to do this because I wasn't on that stream hold on okay yeah there we go dark head dark head there you go superb uh Whalen visefus says a bucket of AIDS or stuck for 10 minutes in a cage with dark hours staring at you menacingly and then with the crazy look in his eye he says Let's Get It On I'll take the cage with dark hour I mean 15 years of fighting and I have never injured a person so like I've hurt people but I've never injured someone long enough to uh put them out so I think they could always walk home at the end of yes yes that's one thing that I've always made a point is that I don't make it I I always remember that people have work the next day I would say that's reasonable uh Stephen Bobo says I know the panel and the chat don't like Ethan Klein but give the man is due he whoops uh xqc's candy ass in the debate about copyright and the transformative media I mean um yeah on the basis that Ethan Klein can actually form words so that probably puts him at an advantage I would say definitely gave him a head start on the whole conversation yes uh next one is Waylon pistephas says film a kraken or munch makuchi he has like I love every single one of the like super chats that guy comes up with I know it's just like he must he must spend all day planning these he's got a book full of like like pun names that he could just go through it's fantastic yeah quinoa says hail panel question for you Drinker and more is a show with Camp here a possibility would be interested to see a change of pace and a must-see RMB hook Drinker up so could we have John campia on this open bar I don't think he'd accept that invitation totally crazy I don't think he'd be up for it but he's welcome to come on he is yeah we would have we'd happily have one and I think we'd give him a nice cordial reception don't you yes yeah we're nice like that we're reasonable gentlemen the JS Pena says have fun in Houston I won't be able to come unfortunately just a heads up since you'll be downtown watch yourself because it's very Progressive okay I'm more concerned about the heat than the progressivism yeah the melting to the black cop will probably be the thing that we're that's worse yeah so if I stand too long in one place where my when my trainers just like melt to the the blacktop well like I said backstage occasionally that you have to like in southern states you have to move your car because the literally your tires will melt to the to the street says what's your favorite race mine's Daytona 500. there's one called the uh I think it's the 2.4 hours of lemons it's like a five you your car can only have a value of 500 or something like that and you have to like make it last for 2.4 hours of racing it's like wow yeah it's actually it's basically a parody of the Le Mans um like milk crates in that they're sitting on and stuff just to get the value down it's fantastic uh cirrhosis of liver says congratulations on your 25th video on organized Chaos's Channel here's to hoping he puts that money towards a speech coach good luck to him well done uh the ghost of drinker's liver says not sure which is more frustrating hearing how Netflix completely fumbled The Witcher or putting up with all the Old Spice tie-in ads um yeah okay as a user of Old Spice I I approve I I used to love the Old Spice ad you know that the really charismatic dude who was like writing backwards smell like yeah they were great I love them what's your top three one punch Man characters one punch man yeah kind of but um no two it could be Moomin Rider he's pretty cool um oh I do like a lot of the characters in there but gotta settle it might be generic at that point because I'm going to want to go for um genus as well you know what I'll need to re-watch it to give you a more detailed answer but I'm going to settle for those three all right Northern English bastard says how did you get here Dark Hour haha happy to see you on here again mate uh Drinker everyone else keep up the good work probably though it's probably that USB full of uh blackmail photos I have from Tatiana yep well there is that are you threatened to put me in a cage match as well so I was like yeah that was a choice it was either fight me or I'll I'll release all your dirty secrets yeah uh Tyler wolf says Hey baggage claim loved your last few videos thank you so much Blue Collar loser that guy sounds familiar so it's Drinker thanks for the 1K subscribers almost enough watch hours for monetization I'll send you my first YouTube check hello uh dark error again I'll pretend that I like him oh screw you buddy I Blue Collar loser of stream together a bunch of time uh he's a great guy uh yeah no he's good guy um Waylon persephas says The Shootist or Unforgiven this is a tough one because I I like John Wayne but I feel like Unforgiven is probably the better movie I adore Unforgiven um The Shootist is a great movie too though they're really close they're really close I think it's an error thing yeah I mean well we're just out of curiosity you should watch the shooters sometime just because deals with very similar ideas um and I think it'd be interesting to see like as a much earlier prototype of Unforgiven almost be quite cool yeah uh Elsie Le Pen says good day open bar Drinker I hope your trip was great it was thank you uh more good year for tackling the return of the react Wars man those debates deflated my brain yeah it's it's been it's intense once per year okay you need to be it's like you're getting a vaccine or something to this insane like you'll get inoculated it's like uh well yeah it's like Chernobyl you've got to limit your exposure you know um chucksonhausen says he'll chat Drinker I remember you saying you watched Tulsa King have you reviewed it yet uh no I haven't reviewed it yet but I very much enjoyed it it's a good show um Casey Boyd says Laura who's your favorite filmmaker oh sorry Full Metal Alchemist character oh man I haven't watched that show in so long I can't remember who my favorite I think it might be Armstrong and actually funnily enough both of the siblings so to speak um I really like yeah I'll just go with both of them they're great uh chuckson houses says shout out to darker congrats my good friend thank you uh kissy Boyd says are we sure we're not taking the Barbie movie too seriously all my female co-workers thinks it's just satire and hilarious I haven't seen it though so I can't chime in on it yet um I think it's just interesting because it's made so much money it's been such a crazy success story um yeah it's kind of interesting to ponder why I mean every show is still talking about it so that's that just goes to show you like yeah it's been out for like three weeks now and people are still are still talking about on their weekly shows yeah uh zitra statnes says I still think Johnny Law would be a great addition to this panel wow one day um Casey Boyd says Shuan head said that t is gay coffee as Brits when are you going to declare war on her what makes you think we haven't already yeah we've sent people to deal with it yeah don't worry we'll get her on the right track uh anyway uh Thomas gave us two Euros so thank you uh what's this why vernados says question what do you think is Christopher Lee's best uh casting or acting role Saruman and Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings or Count Dooku in the Star Wars prequels I was gonna say is that our only choices because like he's he's been in like a million Hammer horror movies and he was great also is it just me I'll be choosing between them is pretty easy not because like he's a great cast as Count Dooku but I mean the writing is kind of like you know yeah trash yeah just his voice just the way they used his voice in Lord of the Rings it was like a perfect use oh yes Talent yeah um yeah I feel like he's the kind of guy who command a landslide to happen on a mountain just for this year force of his voice oh yeah it'd be too it'd be too scared to like say no to him but I also love the behind the scenes where he's describing to Peter Jackson what it's really like when you stab someone in the back because he's clearly done it before that he was like a liability on set because everyone would just want to listen to him talk people like surrounded listen to him tell stories and stuff like God damn it let me make a movie when you when you've done basically everything in your life and you've been around for about 80 years you know it's just you're gonna have a lot to tell like I'm sure Robert said to us like he recorded hours and hours of interviews with him when he was working on the behind the scenes stuff for Lord of the Rings and it's never been seen uh you'd be fascinated to see what was in there such a shame no no Drinker is far too drunk he started to stream a day early well that's true but it's better than starting a day late or a week later yeah Thomas says I finally got to see Oppenheimer terrific film that didn't feel like three hours at all I also got to see Florence Pugh's boobies but not Florence Florence he's poopies okay I don't think any of us need to see that but okay um more I know you've finally seen Oppenheimer is it possible to press you for an opinion that doesn't last for several hours I have not watched it yet okay I know that sounds weird but I literally had it booked I had it booked and I had to get out of it I've not I've been up and down in my health so I haven't watched it yet don't say anything it's actually I've noticed that there's a there's a lot of people who I've dealt with not only in the YouTube sphere but in like regular life that haven't seen it yet it still has done so successful it's a little weird that that's happened because like usually when you see a movie that's successful you're like everyone's seen it it's like it's it's strange um yeah yeah more like is it is it redeemed Christopher Nolan a little bit for you I mean this I think it's yeah it's it's a breath of Russia from him in terms of they're uh certain choices in it I'm not sure I'm totally bought into the whole um black and white versus color objective versus objective as I think he described it I'm fully convinced if that was necessary um but like it's uh the rest of it like I think that he made incredibly good directorial choices that supported the uh the story in the journey the characters were going through and I feel like funnily enough the film was so focused on Oppenheimer as a character but I almost missed out on being like hey can I find out more about the bomb how it was made and more maybe mechanical aspects that'd be neat um but you know I I guess I'm not I'm not against the idea of finding out as much as I could about each of the people involved and uh I think am I right Drinker insane that you felt like it it went on for a bit too long in the third Act yes so actually I probably my preferred part of the movie is the third section I agree with drinker but I understand where mauler's coming from on it that there was some really awesome parts of the third act I just feel there was certain things that could have been trimmed down and and tightened up like so it was a really weird situation where because some of the things they said were just reiterating things we had already seen so you didn't really need them you could have yeah this this was my big issue whereas you know when they dropped the the bomb on Japan spoiler baggage claim they did that um twice actually yeah twice in fact yeah um but yeah it leads us to the the questioning of like well was it worth it what's the moral implications of doing this and what have we unleashed by creating this kind of weapon that now other people are going to strive to replicate and it's like okay fine that's a very valid question to ask at that point in history but then you you skip forward to the end of the movie an hour later and you've essentially you end on the same question uh which just makes me feel like that's a little bit redundant and if you have to circle around to where you are in our previously you know I get that it fills in a lot of the gaps like historically in his life and stuff and gives us context for what happened to him but yeah like in terms of the the payoff to it it just didn't feel like it was quite enough to justify all that extra run type for me we were going to get a definitive answer to that question right it's kind of the nature no I don't need yeah I don't need an answer to it I just mean like the movie can end on that question and it's perfectly valid like that's a good way to to leave you questioning the morality of all of it um but if you just end on the same question that you're proposing to the audience an hour earlier I don't feel like you've achieved necessarily that much in the space of an hour um I mean there's the additional context adds to the question that Oppenheimer and Einstein how much am I allowed to say here because I don't uh like yeah I know I know I know what you're referencing yeah like what they end up what we discovered they talked about I feel like that changes the Paradigm especially after the whole context of the film of exactly what you believe the effects of the bomb had on the world well beyond the actual like bombing more so on the mindsets and approaches to all kinds of Dynamics going forward and I I don't know I feel like the film's suitably just poses it to us as like you're in the future what do you think how do you think the the world benefited or had detrimental effects of this having been created and what did it do to all these institutions and all the people that run them and um you know how Beyond it goes from Oppenheimer which I feel like they really did a good job of highlighting in contrast to straws right the whole uh he's like either they're talking about me they've done something to me he's coming after me and then like the majority of the points are just like dude he's not even thinking about you like yeah at all it's bigger picture stuff whereas yeah he's very dialed into his image and the smaller picture yeah yeah which is a fun contrast I like that yeah no that was that was that was pretty good no yeah they're definitely there's definitely something could have trimmed down though I think they could they could have got this down to about two and a half hours it would have been it would have had the exact same effect I agree on that yeah you could have done that yeah um but overall like it's my God it's like it's definitely a worthy movie of watching like it's definitely worth people's time yeah 100 and whatever flaws we've we've found in it it's uh it's miles better than most of the stuff we get these days um Ethan Rackham I think this is referencing what we talked about earlier stop letting local turn on your channel his editing is weak but he's dethroning you is the best critical you should adopt uh Hassan ABI mindset next Super Chat uh to not let smart people near you just have great Randolph Stockman Ben Shapiro Mueller I know you can dominate them just like a drinker that would be amazing I am on board with that I might have to mirror you can't advocate for platoon not to be here that's why that's my boy platoon come on yeah we're gonna have it twice as much now they're gonna literally have him he's they're gonna set it up so he can have two sections of the stream he could probably do it because he's a cartoon character yeah says Got a notification open bar we're starting briefly panicked and thought I'd slept through Wednesday congratulations on 60 years of streaming Excellence cheers we're just doing this to mess with people's heads that's all it is yeah terrified says Drinker if you don't have a director for your short film you could have Mueller do it uh may take 10 years but you know every detail will be looked at thoroughly it's called a short film it's a short film it can't be baller I I thought to send him the script but then I knew he was just absolutely destroy it and I would hear from him in about three years with all his details so I don't know how it might not be ready like I guess because it's a short film you're allowed around the the strikes and stuff I don't really understand how that works well it's because it's filming in Canada so we're using Canadian Actors and so they're not uh through the American sag yeah it turns out Canadians can do American accents so it's it's acceptable you know and a lot of the characters are like Russian and stuff as well so yeah they're close enough yeah um so it's worked out fine for us um it worked out even better because there's a whole bunch of like um you know valuable like camera equipment and stuff that's not getting used right now so we we can just uh appropriate it and use it not only that it might come out during a time where nothing else is coming out you might this this might be the greatest thing that ever happened to you I mean yeah I mean it won't be ready probably until the new year I should imagine but um yeah but there's gonna be delays on everything yeah there'll be the knock-on effect yeah it might come out a nice lull where it could get a huge wave yeah who knows um how are you aiming to release it just out of curiosity um I mean we'll see like the YouTube's obviously a good option because you know we've got a couple of million people who can who can potentially watch it if they're interested so that's about the fact that you have people you'd have like all like your like everybody who's on YouTube that appears on open bar would be in the chat talking to people that'd be pretty cool yeah so it's kind of like this is like a proof of concept to show that it can be done and show what we can potentially do with like a relatively small budget and it's like well okay if we had a bigger one next time what could we accomplish so yeah we'll see what we can do with that yeah um terrified says drink oh no sorry I've just did that one uh story arc welder says Thursday came early I'm not complaining like it and uh yeah it is early Asher's brain pants is I've been trying to work through the difference between the neutral Mass character and the strong female character so far it's down to the character Arc thoughts so what's the neutral mask I don't even know what that first one is not sure so neutral Mass character is a learning mask which is not designed to be used on stage unlike expressive Master the neutral mass does not express a specific character he represents a generic character without internal conflict but able to express all the diversity of our emotions all right so it's like the tragedy and comedy masks that you get in in theater then okay or one that's neutral I was thinking like yeah as you explain that I just thought video game character that doesn't have like choices like like a like RPG character that you make their choices for them like that's what I thought yeah so um yeah so he doesn't have an internal conflict but he can show the range of emotions so I mean that's kind of on par with the strong female character in that they don't have a conflict um except if I learned to realize how awesome they are so literally the first thing that came to mind was fault like like Fallout 3 Fallout 4 characters where they don't really depending on what you choose them to say they show a different emotion even if it doesn't make sense with the previous statement that's just that's usually just bad game design um Roger Rubio says I volunteer to watch over the critical Dogo while you're away at the conference don't worry the doggles will be taken care of Uh Kevin Medina says if you need an extra for your movie with a bullet and a mustache then I'm your guy I would like to have some kind of like speech Nas Russian special forces guy with a mullet and a mustache just so he's totally out of place that'd be awesome um uh cbgb's says Hail to the open bar you guys are awesome any chance you can wish a happy birthday to my husband uh and Fortune and Glory he's had a rough few years with a career change and your content has kept him laughing and sane cheers guys we can absolutely do that happy birthday man hope you're having a great time happy birthday my birthday wasn't that long ago either so nice uh gjj says welcome to Houston only one billion degree outside yeah I'm looking forward to it 102 as every day you're there I'm sure I'll be about 20 pounds lighter by the time I come home I'll just like sweat it all out Party album CV says parasites aren't animals they're just parasites fair enough um van Katz says who do you think is the most evil villain in cinema Skeletor he just loves being evil Palpatine to the Galaxy Harvey Weinstein yeah it's behind the screen really hahaha what character did uh Christopher Lloyd play in Who Framed Roger Rabbit because he was just evil I don't remember the name of the character but that was yeah yeah just remember him he just love being evil uh back then and Back Again says you guys are awesome and advice for channels is excellent just got my first video out three days ago and it's already at 100 views wish me luck and thanks for all that you do congratulations my most recent video so you're good uh Big Dave K says Hey critical Drinker and Company I'll finally be sending you an update this week random question have you ever seen the anime series made in Abyss I don't know anything about it I'm afraid sorry man looking forward to your update though um an axles aboard it says I'd like to shout out Dan Morrow on YouTube a great reviewer and box office analyst 150 000 Subs exonus trailers writer and movie fights Champion well-rounded channel would make a great guest Dan Morrow sounds familiar actually the name yeah he's a part of him at least it was a cat all the time I think oh okay cool so yeah um got his own channel there obviously in um apparently it's really good so very nice maybe we'll get one sometime um yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna call it um call hold to the open bar fairly early tonight mainly because I got get up super early for my flight tomorrow so um much I would like to keep going for another hour I'm gonna have to get some rest at some point um but I just want to say thanks to you lovely panel for coming on tonight appreciate it um dark Hammer baggage claim it's been a pleasure to have you back on the open bar uh likewise with Rob um and Muller I I tolerate you yeah thanks for having us thank you no it's been awesome to have you guys on and thanks to everyone else who's joined us tonight um for this slightly impromptu open bar uh thank you for your generosity and for your awesome super chats um and any ones that we missed we will catch up on as we always do but um for now at least I guess that is all we've got for today so we're gonna go away now bye bye

Channel: Critical Drinker After Hours

Views: 236,042

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Id: OPG7TnkuZgo

Length: 119min 44sec (7184 seconds)

Published: Fri Aug 11 2023