[lounge music] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ - The best response you can
have to a payoff in a thriller is someone goes, "Oh, right,
I forgot, of course..." [multiple voices chattering] <i>[Narrator] </i>On Story<i>
offers a look inside</i> <i>the creative process
from today's leading</i> <i>writers, creators,
and filmmakers.</i> <i>All of our content
is recorded live</i> <i>at Austin Film Festival
and at our year-round events.</i> <i>To view previous episodes,
visit OnStory.tv.</i> <i>[Narrator] </i>On Story<i> is
brought to you in part</i> <i>by the Alice Kleberg Reynolds
Foundation,</i> <i>a Texas family providing
innovative funding since 1979.</i> [waves] [kids screaming] [wind] [witch cackling] [sirens wail] [gunshots] [dripping] [suspenseful music] [telegraph beeping, typing] [piano gliss] <i>From Austin Film Festival,
this is </i>On Story<i>.</i> <i>A look inside the creative
process from today's</i> <i>leading writers, creators,
and filmmakers.</i> <i>This week's </i>On Story<i>,</i> <i>The Big Chill</i>,<i>
The Empire Strikes Back</i> and <i>Raiders of the Lost Ark </i>screenwriter, Lawrence Kasdan. - I had written <i>Bodyguard</i>, it was turned down 57 times. And my agent sent me, he had little cards so
it didn't take much, but there was a frame thing
that had all 57 rejections, and a comment about, do this,
not that, so on. But I just kept writing. Then somebody optioned <i>The
Bodyguard</i> after all that time. So if you get 57 rejections, you're on your way to
something good. [audience laughs] [paper crumples] [typing] [typewriter ding] <i>[Narrator] In this episode,
Lawrence Kasdan,</i> <i>screenwriter of </i>The Big Chill,
The Empire Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark<i>
and </i>Silverado<i>,</i> <i>shares the creative process</i> <i>behind some of his
greatest films.</i> [typewriter ding] - There's this
blockbuster Larry, that a lot of people know, who has brought us
these iconic films, the best Star Wars. [applause] And then there's the
Larry Kasdan that writes and directs these really
heart-filled stories that have great charismatic
characters. So I want to talk about how you
go from one to the other, to breaking into writing for
film in the first place. - I grew up in West Virginia and I wanted to write when
I was very young. And there was a playwriting
teacher at the University of Michigan who
had taught Arthur Miller. That was pretty impressive. And he was in his 80s when
I was applying to college, but he was still teaching. And I applied to Michigan
and I got in, and I took that course
three times. And when I was done, Meg and I had met and we were
about to get married. And I had gotten a Masters in
teaching English, because-- instead of bone spurs,
you know-- and a friend of
Meg's family said-- he ran an advertising agency and kept writing. And then I got an offer for
one of these spec scripts. And that sort of
opened things up. Because I had been writing
so much, with so much failure that I had another script
to submit immediately. And that ones sold. And Steven Spielberg
bought <i>Continental Divide</i>. And when I met him for
the first time, he said, "George Lucas and I," I mean, I'm two weeks
out of advertising, [laughing] "are going to make an
adventure movie." And I showed him<i>
Continental Divide</i>. "And we're interested
in you writing it. Are you interested?" Mmm, yeah. [laughing] And we went to see George,
and it was very odd meeting, Frank Marshall was in that
meeting and I had not met until that day, he had
never met George and we're into it
and George says, "You know what I'm going to do,
we're going to do this story, "and the guy's named after
my dog, Indiana, "and he has a whip
and a hat and he's chasing the lost
Ark of the Covenant." And that was the MacGuffin that
Phil Kaufman had come up with when Phil Kaufman was
going to direct the movie. And he said Phil Kaufman,
when he was 11 years old, was at the orthodontist and the orthodontist told him about the lost
Ark of the Covenant. And so... [laughing] they just told me
that much about it. And George did something
I've never seen him do since, which was, he got up from
behind his desk, he walked into the center
of the room and he said, "Let's all shake hands on this." We hadn't been
offered the job yet. And maybe this is
an historic moment. And we all shook hands. And as Frank and I,
who were not part of this were walking off the lot. Frank said, do you
think we got that job? And I said, I don't know, but--
[laughing] when we get home,
we'll find out. And we did get the job. And so I went off for
six months and wrote that. And when I went to hand it in,
he took it, he threw it on the desk and he said, "Let's go
out to lunch." And I said, "Okay," we sit down. And he says, "I'm in big trouble
with the second Star Wars. We've got all these people
working in England and I don't have a script." And he said, "I'm really
in a hole here. Will you write this movie?" And I said, "Don't you want to read<i>
Raiders of the Lost Ark</i>?" [laughing] He said, "Well, I'm going
to read it tonight. "And if I don't like it, I'm
going to call you up tomorrow, take back this offer." [laughing] But he did like it. And we started work on that
and it went very quickly because they were so far behind. But the first thing,
when I went to see George, after I got that job, he said, "You know... Darth Vader is Luke's father." [laughing] And I said, "No [bleep]." [laughing] I was-- I was shocked, but right away, it was like more
interesting to me. The whole thing had become
more interesting to me that this was his father. - Luke, you do not yet
realize your importance. You have only begun to
discover your power. Join me and I will
complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this
destructive conflict and bring order
to the galaxy. - I'll never join you. - If you only knew the power
of the Dark Side. Obi-Wan never told you what
happened to your father. He told me enough. He told me you killed him. - No, I am your father. [dramatic music] - No. No. That's not true. - I was up in your office once
and you had a wall of rejection. - That's right. - And I thought that was such a
interesting thing to put up because at that point, obviously
the film had been made. - I had written <i>Bodyguard</i>,
it was turned down 57 times. And my agent sent me, he had
little cards so it didn't take much, but there was a
frame thing that had all 57 rejections,
and a comment about, do this, not that,
so on. But I just kept writing. Then I wrote <i>Continental Divide</i>, then somebody optioned<i> The
Bodyguard</i> after all that time. So if you get 57 rejections, you're on your way
to something good. [laughing] - <i>The Bodyguard</i>, how close
was it to the script? - This is a little delicate,
because it was the first thing I sold. I wanted to direct it for
years before I was a director. And then when I became
a director, I got off on other things. And when Kevin said, "Okay,
let's do it," Meg and I had just finished writing <i>Grand Canyon</i>
and I wanted to do that. And so I produced it with Kevin,<i>
The Bodyguard</i>, and we hired someone and it wasn't at all
what I had in mind. The shock of that movie for me,
because we were all disappointed in what it was, but it was something in it
that was so universally interesting to people. The fact that this action hero is willing to sacrifice
his life for her. That she's very difficult,
and yet they fall in love. Those things are, it just
turned out to be-- work all over the world. But the story, I wrote
for Steve McQueen because he was my obsession
and Kevin did that perfectly. So I think it was a
combination of those things. You know, we don't know, we do not know-- we can have a lot of
opinions and judgments, but you're so affected
by what the world says. And part of the biggest
challenge being in this business is to not ignore when
you get slammed, but how fast do you
come back from it. And I don't think I've been
great about that all the time. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But not because they're wrong
and you're right, because this is the
nature of the game, and you got to expect that you're going to have
ups and downs. [typewriter ding] - That takes me into <i>Body Heat</i>. This was such a great noir-ish
kind of story where these two people were entrancing,
they're charming. They're incredibly
charming characters and they're not particularly
good people, either of them really. So, so talk about that
one as the one-- that's your first one that
you directed, right? - When I wrote <i>Raiders </i>and<i>
Empire </i>back to back, people started offering me
all these writing jobs, which I had not really
been offered before that. I said, "No, I'm not going
to write anything." They said, "Well, what do
you want to do?" I said, "I came out here
to direct." And Alan Ladd, Jr. who was releasing <i>Empire</i> and ran 20th Century Fox said, "What do you want to direct?" And I told him the story of<i>
Body Heat</i>, he said, "Well, I'll pay for you
to write that script; I can't tell you that you're
going to direct it." And I wrote it,
he really liked it. He changed studios
in the meantime. Alan Ladd said to George- Alan Ladd moved his company
to Warner Brothers- he said, "Will you be
his sponsor?" That was very popular back then, some big movie maker would
sponsor a new person. And George said, "I'll do it, "but I can't put my name on it
or Lucasfilm name "because I'm just starting this
company, it's for children. And this movie is dirty." [laughing] And this is to George's credit,
he said, "Look, I'll be the
executive producer "and I'll take this fee. "But if Larry goes over budget, you can use my fee." So you really can't ask for
anything more than that. - You have a lot of pressure on
you to make this one right, to make it good,
especially because you're working with somebody who's now
involved with all these other things you're doing. - I had been thinking about
almost nothing else for about 11 years until when
you're thinking about it and you're seeing movies and
when you're writing screenplays, and I had written
quite a few by then, I was directing those
in my head. And so when it came time to
actually direct somebody, it didn't seem that terrible. We tested four couples
for that part. And the great thing about
that was not the testing, It was that for the
first time in my life, I was on the set. I was in control. I said action. I said cut. And it took all that
surface anxiety away. And we picked someone,
we started the movie. And that first day, I felt like, "Oh, this is what I've been
trying to do my whole life." And Bill was just exploding
at the moment I was casting <i>Body Heat</i>. And Kathleen was a number. We met dozens of women
for that part and she just jumped out. - To me, the dialogue
in <i>Body Heat</i> was, just the banter was
really incredible. It felt like one of those
Cornell Woolrich books you would read and you just
feel it happening. It just felt-- it also felt
hot and steamy. I mean, that was really amazing
how you pulled that off. - You have a house. - How'd you know that? - You look like Pinehaven. - How does Pinehaven look? - Well tended. - I'm well tended, all right. Well tended. What about you? - Me? I need tending. I need someone to take
care of me, someone to rub my tired muscles, smooth out my sheets. - Get married. - I just need it for tonight. [spits out drink laughing] - Oh. Oh, nice move, Matty. - Matty? I like it. It's right over your heart. - At least it's cool. I was burning up. - I asked you not
to talk about the heat. - Would you get me a
paper towel or something? Dip it in some cold water. - Right away, I'll even
wipe it off for you. - You don't want to lick it? [typewriter ding] - So then you go on to<i>
The Big Chill</i> from there and completely kind of
opposite film, you have all these
characters now, you've got many characters now. - Well that was absolutely the
reaction to <i>Body Heat</i>. <i>Body Heat</i> was very well received
and people were saying, "Oh, come make a movie
with us." And so I wrote with
Barbara Benedek, <i>The Big Chill</i>. All these people love me
so much, and they all turned it down. They said, "How can you have
a movie with seven leads? You know, seven stars?" And I said, "No, this is
about a group of friends, it's an ensemble piece." And everybody turned it down. In fact, it would
just barely got made. [Harold] Alex drew us together
from the beginning. Now he brings us together again. I don't know why this happened. But I do know that there was
always something about Alex... that was too good
for this world. - In the midst of doing
these yourself, you're still also doing
other projects. - When I was done with<i>
Body Heat</i>, George came to me, he said, "Look, you
got to help me out. "I'm doing the third
in the trilogy. Just come in and work on it
for a little while." And I said okay. And then we wrote<i>
Jedi </i>very quickly. And then-- but that was only
after I started. I didn't do much of
that for quite a while. [Barbara] So then you're
continuing to write, you do<i> Grand Canyon</i>,
and then <i>French Kiss</i>. Again, they're all very
character driven and very people-driven stories. Is that all coming out of
this theater background? Because you're really more of
a people person's storyteller. - I am, but everything-- When I was growing up in
West Virginia, I was in love with movies. My brother had been interested
in movies and he's the one that told me, in West Virginia we didn't know that people
made it a living doing this. We just thought you went
into the theater and the actors made it up. He went to Harvard and he had
heard that they actually make movies. [laughing] And I started watching
movies, every American movie. That's all I could
get in West Virginia. And you know, it's hard to see
them then, because you know, no DVD, no VHS, you had to
catch it and then it was gone, but I watched everything. And then when I got to Michigan,
everything was open to me because I was going to about
10 movies a week because they had all
these film series. So I got to see Kurosawa,
my favorite director, I saw Bergman and
Truffaut, Antonioni. It was just amazing period. That was what I wanted to do. I wanted to do human stories that were entertaining, but they were like auteurs. When I wrote Raiders, that was
completely off to the side. Now, it's true that I loved
Howard Hawks' movies, I loved the big
adventure movies. I was always interested in that. And in fact, my third movie
was <i>Silverado</i> and that was just an
action Western, but also character driven. That's what I thought
I was going to do. And the other thing
is really a sidebar. - Well, <i>Silverado</i> was the next
one I was going to bring up. I read something on the
internet, so this could be total [bleep] but that you
said you can tell any story in a Western. - Oh, I believe that. Yeah. I mean, it's just a great
vessel for any kind of story. You just pour whatever you want
to talk about into that vessel. And there are very little rules. It feels like they're
ritualized, but they're not. Any story can be told
on that canvas, which is basically
a blank canvas where people are
making up their lives. And that's sort of how
I saw the West, and so they could be making
up any life you want. And there were no rules really. And that's what<i>
Silverado</i> is about. It's about the connections you
can still make in a place that's completely wild. - Pretty land, isn't it? - And a pretty lady. - A lot of men have
told me that. Maybe it's true. I guess some women are
slow to believe it. - Believe it. - They're drawn to me by that,
but it never lasts. - Why? - Because they don't like
what I want. - What's that? - I want to build something,
make things grow. That takes hard work,
a lifetime of it. That's not why a man
comes to a pretty woman. After a while, I won't
be so pretty, but this land will be. - I'd really like to hear
about your thought in telling your Western that way
because it wasn't just about the set pieces in it. Your characters were such a
strong piece of that story. - I hope so, and that was
really all I had been thinking about since very young, when I was thinking I
wanted to make movies. And for me, a very important
movie is <i>Magnificent Seven</i>, which was remake of<i>
Seven Samurai</i> that John Sturgis did. And then he did<i>
Great Escape</i>, which blew my mind. Everybody in it was great. I loved that he could cast
all these young guys and they all became big stars, James Coburn and
Charles Bronson. It was full. And of course, McQueen who is
my favorite actor in the world. And the reason they're so cool, both in <i>Magnificent Seven</i>
and <i>Great Escape</i> is because they're
all characters. They're very well written,
sometimes very economically because they don't have
a lot of screen time, but you get the whole thing. And that to me was the essence
of what I was trying to do. How do you, in the most
economical cinematic way, how do you suggest
someone's character, even though you're not going
to get to see them that much? And that's what<i>
Silverado</i>'s about. That's really what <i>Big Chill</i>
is about because they're sharing the screen, studios
were right about that. There were seven leads, but I
didn't think that was a problem. [smack] - Still the best way to
determine if it's ready. - Meg, what's your shoe size? - Who wants to know? - What, about six and a half? - Used to be, but now
it's seven. [timer ding] - Your feet grow as you
get older. - I wish everything did. - Sam, how much longer? Everything's going to be cold. - You mean after 12 years,
you haven't learned to make anything else? - I've improved on it. - Now it's edible? - The meal is ready, let's go. [Nick] <i>J.T. Lancer</i>! Let's go watch this
incredible show! - Oh my god! [laughing] - Come on Sam. - Look at that hunk of man,
kids. - Oh, he's so handsome. Jesus. [Nick] Whoopsie-daisy. Whoa, look out! [Sarah] He's gorgeous. [Meg] You forgot your Dramamine. - Turn that off, come on. [typewriter ding] - You did enjoy writing <i>Solo</i>,
right? With your son. - That was really fun, and he
is my favorite character and we had fun doing it. And what I loved about him,
he was just like, when I was watching movies,
when I was in high school, the characters that
most attracted me were the bogart characters and the people wouldn't stick
their neck out for anybody, and then of course they do. They have a very tough exterior, but in fact, in the middle,
they're squishy soft. And that's what Han was based
on before I came into it. When George wrote the
first <i>Star Wars</i>, that's strictly a
bogart character and he's the most fun character. So when we had a chance to go
back and do the origin story, I wanted to see what
makes someone like that. Why are they so suspicious
of other people? Why are they so reluctant
to commit to things? And that's what
we were exploring. - There is where I sign up
to be a pilot, right? - If you apply for the
Imperial Navy, but most recruits go
into the infantry. - I'm going to be a pilot. The best in the galaxy. - You there, come with us. We have a few questions
to ask you. - How long is that
going to take? - Depends how good you are
at following orders. Why, have you got
somewhere to be? - Yeah, back here as soon
as I can. - I don't hear that much. What's your name, son? - Han. - Han what? Who are your people? - I don't have people,
I'm one. - Han... Solo. Approved. Proceed to transport ID 83 for
the Naval Academy at Carida. Good luck, Han Solo. - Are you writing all the time,
even when you're not necessarily working for
a studio or whatever? I mean, are you writing for you? - No. I often say, and it's
misunderstood, I think, but I, first of all, I spent five years writing<i>
Force Awakens</i> and <i>Solo</i>, and I was so sick of it and I didn't want to-- you know, don't think for second
I don't know how lucky I am that they're sending a<i>
Star Wars</i> script to my door and I can say,
"No, I won't accept it." [laughing] You have to be very privileged
situation to do that and I don't ever take
that for granted, but I find writing
extremely hard. I've written a lot of stuff and it's the hardest work
in movies to me. And because everything else
is like fun, you go out and there's all these people, you just hang with the
best people. That's the opposite of writing. [typewriter ding] <i>[Narrator] You've been
watching a conversation with</i> <i>Lawrence Kasdan on </i>On Story<i>.</i> On Story <i>is part of a
growing number of programs</i> <i>in Austin Film Festival's
On Story project,</i> <i>including the </i>On Story<i>
PBS series,</i> <i>now streaming online,</i> <i>the </i>On Story<i> radio program,</i> <i>the</i> On Story<i> podcast,</i> <i>and the </i>On Story<i> book series,</i> <i>available where books are sold.</i> <i>To find out more about </i>On Story<i>
and Austin Film Festival,</i> <i>visit onstory.tv
or austinfilmfestival.com.</i> ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [projector clicking] [typing] [typewriter ding] [projector dies]
