OCIO | ACES | Interior Lighting workflows

hello everyone and welcome to this live stream I think everything should be going as planned please let me know in the comments if the stream quality is good it should be I think 2 K at least it's a down scale from i from a 4k stream so hopefully that is good I'm not sure exactly how this works and please also let me know how the sound is if that is good or not I need to adjust if it's not I haven't done live streaming in a while so that's why and I also need to prepare the stream quickly a stream windows so let's just let me give some time to do that so that jet should be coming up in the stream window just make it a bit smaller maybe like this Sun is great that's good to know all right let's do this smaller okay so is it 2k can you see it on 2k was it is that 1k what is the resolution oh you guys can choose from okay so because I have a 2k warning from YouTube got a new member thank you very much well Bella's panics I think thank you very much I think you're actually the very first member on my new membership channel here on YouTube thank you guys so thank you for joining okay 1080 huge fan cool alright 1080 that's perfect it's a bit delayed I guess but that's all fine okay as you can see in the in my little big thumbnail there I have this interior lighting setup and this will not be fully about just that I just want to talk a bit more about the you know about how to how to get there actually how to set up open color IO which should be actually all that should be pretty much straightforward and how to set up aces workflow which is a bit more tricky and even I'm not a pro and all that so if I talk anything which doesn't make sense and or it's wrong please let me know I'm still learning this whole color pipeline thing it's a bit much honestly it shouldn't be but it is alright so I think we can start almost let's see what's happening just one more quick glance of things at all as expected 64 viewers welcome everyone so feel free to to show to leave a comment while you're from so I can't sell it say hello I started I'm on purpose a bit more early so I can capture the biggest spectrum of people so we'll see how that goes alright okay so this is I think we're good to go let's close this guy we don't really care about this alright so let me see so I will first share a few links and it's definitely better before you get going into all of this to read it and well after the video I guess alright so I will do this so Hungary welcome India Moldova India Taiwan oh wow everywhere cool so Otto cannot handle Kazakh it's not a bi-directional paths tracer so that is not happening and it is automatically uploaded after his stream alright so anyways let's get going so as you can see there's lots of tabs open here which which display Asus stuff right so one thing is open color io which is pretty much a standard to always have the exact same color pipelines for all your different DC C's and a DC is any software package you would have something like nuke or Mari or Maya or what all these different things they all most of them nowadays support open color i/o and this is just a framework to bring in different color lots look up tables and all these different things p3 gamuts and whatnot right so all these things are very cryptic there's lots of going on and I will try to really just run it down what is more a simple thing or at least simple to me how I understand it and I'm not saying I fully understand anything about color it's it's a craziest thing there's lots of PhDs working in this field so definitely a tricky thing so what I would recommend is I will share those actually these links here just to see actually what's going on and you can see this you you will quite often see this word color thing and this just displaced the color range which different kind of color profiles can achieve you can see srgb is the most common one used throughout but it's very limited so you can see it's actually cutting off here this middle triangle is what what you would in the sRGB color spectrum right and I think we have a bit better display somewhere yeah let's see if we can make this so this for instance shows a bit better srgb is the red triangle in the middle which is very limited and it feels like color is being clamped away so the the rendering process cannot fully utilize all the information in a texture rate so it can only read up to this point and then whatever is after this is fully ignored so whatever comes after 0.6 in and why and below point 3 is kind of cut off you can see that the Aces workflow pretty much covers all of the spectrum the visible spectrum at least and it can pass that to the render engine and that is very important to understand that the data is not clamped or limited to the render engine and this is what it's all about and it's the same for film cameras they capture more color more range so in the eye in imposed process and whatever they can color corrected more they have more range to play with so again I'm not 100% familiar with all this but this is as at least how much I understand it so I will be pasting those links in the chat now and I would really if you want to get into this really recommend you guys reading this checking it out it just helps a lot to at least get a better picture of all this then we have our spacing all of them so you can save them open them whatever you want to do with this okay so that's pretty much all I had to do about explaining what oh well not not fully but the benefit is but okay let's just keep going a bit more so the thing now is the render like I'm using Arnall in this case so when you pass it on a ASIS color correct or an ASIS converted texture it is pretty much a lot darker than its supposed to be or then you would think is correct but then the benefit of having darker textures is you can boost the lights in your seat and the benefit of doing that is that the renderer has more energy or more light samples to process so and that way it can actually generate a better how I say a better indirect lighting it knows it has more data in the indirect lighting it can bounce off more surfaces there's definitely more energy traveling and in the real world for instance there is no limit right there is no color limit everything bounces infinitely an infinite long or infinite enough time so and we're just trying to mimic all that with the renderer so so this is a step forward to get more accurate results so I just had to take a little sip here and you can see there is different kind of color spaces so we said we are used to using srgb and I will be using DCP 3 as a lookup like a view transform which is pretty much still using the aces workflow behind the scenes but on top it's just displaying it in in this DCI p3 range it's a bit wider than you would then then it's used to so the default images you would render out a bit more washed out I know everything like that yeah so the question was is it is it really right to linear linearize diffuse albedo maps so that's a good question and I cannot answer it truthfully or not not fully so if you have a texture in srgb space you which is converted to a CCG width which is pretty much linearizing the image it's almost like a just a raw conversion and you pipe the raw conversion into the renderer so that is the idea of this if you capture textures properly with an ASIS device or like sorry with a device which can capture the full gamut or at least ten bit then if you save less that these textures as a high range texture like a 16-bit texture or even you can go further but then it's a honestly a proper asus cg workflow which i just cannot do because i don't have it well my camera could do it for the nikon z6 which captures i think 12 bit so you could use that to capture textures and convert those to ACC G so I think that would be the proper approach it's definitely very convoluted and and time-consuming to generate all this so color IO let's just jump into this as I said before it's a it's a pipeline it's a framework I think it's developed by image works with Sony and on their website even though it looks like it's outdated they this two years ago version Asus 1.03 is the current standard which most of the packages use I know for a fact that nuke uses that you can see you get these these same things down here the look-up tables or the view transforms so most of this is based of ASIS right and how can you get it to work so you have different options if you have nuke installed nuke ships with that open color IO thing so you could for sure you could then open for instance you could open up Maya and just open up that config file which nuke uses as well so they live in the same world so you can totally do that a more recommended approaches to download this so you just hear clicking don't let this thing and store this on your on your desktop or on your computer somewhere and I have this for instance stored in my little nerdy section on my computer which is on the color which I've stored out of my under this path OCIO 1.03 and you can see this is pretty much the same thing which is in here right baked let's Python readme blah blah blah so this is the same folder structure and what I'm doing instead of just using the default ones which shiver of different CCC's I always don't know if it's 100% the same ones or there might be a different version or this might be something custom to this so what I always do i download this file which is the config you'll file and that for instance in Maya you can go to window preferences go to the color management I hope this is actually fine because I had to scale the UI a bit just for you guys to see it better and and within the color management tab you can just specify that path and then you get all these funky things in here too so this is my default setup nowadays so I'm always reading this and if you're not 100% sure what a bad file is I have a video about it somewhere else and it explains how to use bad files to set up your DC C's and this is one of those so this is my Maya bad file which as you can see at the bottom here I'm gonna do this yeah so at the bottom here you can see that I'm setting a variable OCIO and I'm passing it this path here which is reading the OCIO config file and so whenever I launch my using this bad file I'm setting a few different things my own plug-in path license path is Python path width and whatnot and then I'm setting also the OCIO path so that way I don't need to worry about whenever I open the software that I don't have the right profiles installed or color profiles so it will always default to this so this is the setup I have in Maya and nuke has this I think the same I did not test it out now but I'm sure it should have something very similar to this so you can see this defaults to ASIS 1.03 which is exactly the same as I use as well so you can also do a custom one and choose the same config but I know for a fact that these are the same things reading the same Asus config files so the good thing is now my DC sees are the same so my let's say my comp I plan which is in in my little demo cases nuke has exactly the same profiles as Maya and if you're lucky enough to have a monitor which actually is able to display this data or at least display a different like a different color profile like p3 which which my monitor has I can also visualize it on my monitor I can see more I cannot see more color but I can definitely see that there is more detail and there's more light bouncing around and and this DCI p3 is like it's a white balance as well as a d60 color white points helps to visualize it and I was sure if your demos in Maya in a bit and at least how to do all this I'm not sure which with what nuke twelve ships honestly I'm not even sure if there is a one point one year already maybe not from SPI not from Sony probably I don't know there's a few more links maybe there's something so this is actually the repo they have I don't think so so this is the one I'm using right so I'm using Asus 103 which is the academic color encoding system which is pretty much what everyone should be using so I don't know if there's a newer thing so are there any questions about all this like I was rambling a bit around about this but feel free to post any questions if you have anything so one is what what monitor do you recommend so if you're seriously serious about color stuff and you I don't know if you need to have accurate representation it's always good to have a monitor which can display that so if it can't support p3 color spaces if it can if it has ten bit it's it's recommended nowadays at least it is but these monitors are expensive honestly and for normal use it's maybe a bit much so I'm pretty sure you can get away with not having a 10-bit color proof monitor if you just do your student projects of anything similar if you want to do your work and sell your stuff or actually do something proper with your work if your work maybe from home for a company or something you should have a proper monitor yeah I linked the OCIO things above I think I can actually pin them somehow oh let me just do this again I'd put it all in one post and can I then pin it maybe on pin this alright let's see if I can unpin this thing here and I've pinned something else does that work not even sure if I can't pin stuff hey no I don't know yeah ISO is pretty good there's Asus is pretty good any C's are pretty good so that their have good delts I heard not the best things about delts but they have very good monitors so check that out that's for sure and then okay let me just share this don't know thing for the this guy again which is at least the one which you can download and I can see if I can pin this why can't I pin this guy nevermind alright so that should jump quickly into nuke just to explain how you would convert stuff right so this is a default srgb texture which I just bring in you get that from the internet or wherever you use to capture that whatever it is this is a srgb texture map and it comes in and it automatically knows that it is utility srgb textures so the OCIO framework is clever enough to to read the data in a no or most of the time know what color space this is captured in and if you know it is srgb and it doesn't update it you can always do it you can override it so this would be an utility srgb texture this is what this is and this is how it is recognized so I will CIO ships with a few notes as in a nuke OCA color space so what this note enables you to do is to convert textures and it does it very simply I think so you have the OCIO color space node you know what comes in it's a utility srgb which is this guy and you know as what you wanted to output it and you want it as an ASIS CG output so you go here Asus CG and the result looks like this you would think what is this now why is this so dark but this is pretty much what I was talking about that it pretty much is a linear format which helps the renderer know what the raw albedo colors are it doesn't it feels like it's just a exiting like a stopping down of something I'm not sure 100% what it does behind the scenes I'm sure it just that the curves a bit but this is the result then you write that out to a file to disk and I just call this now underscore ASIS CG here so and I changed my color space in my output to Aces CG so this is how it will be exported and then you just render that to disk and if I bring this now in let's see if I can actually do that it should come in as the ACC G thing let's see if it does that I think it doesn't recognize this you see this that's a problem I know that I don't know that Maya does recognize this so this is now how it's coming in as the ASC G version and you you should be you should do that with your textures if you want to do a proper ASIS workflow and you can do the same thing with hgo eyes right so if I bring in my typical H GOI here let's see if I find that I look the same of a few maps I have as well let's see which one can I use here this one and I don't think there's much difference with with the HDI so so this one's you can see now this one comes in automatically as a CC G and this is an ACC G converted HDI which as you can see has all the color you need all the ranges in here it's also I think 16 or at least 32-bit you can see it's not clamping just a full spectrum and yeah obviously it goes up into the wide spectrum as well so yeah you do that you write all them yeah you're right I think as well I'm converting it twice so that's why it was maybe a bit dark I should have maybe kept this to default so that doesn't matter really so now back in Maya what you'd need to do it need to do you can first when you import files you can apply default patterns or default default rules so the default rule what does it say I'm actually not sure I think it just tries to understand what's in what is written out into the metadata and apply dad and or you can do a different thing so you can add also a custom rules if you want to do that right now I'm just saying everything is in a sec G so ideally this is what it's supposed to be you should not be really mixing up these color spaces really so if on this unless you bring in a texture from the web and you know it's srgb you obviously you will change it and honestly I do that quite a lot like I am sometimes just too lazy to do that but for certain kind of things you would need to do that to actually get the benefit of this ASIS workflow and yes it is a that's the thing what I said that it's pretty much embedded if you get textures from the web which are srgb it is embedded it you do not have more range by converting it so that's what I said if you capture images you should make sure you capture them properly in and the full spectrum or at least an 10 bit so I get a bit more color so obviously yes that is that is what is right that it's embedded the thing though is if you convert it it's just you don't need to mess around with color spaces all the time you just converted and it's a CCG even though it's limited it looks like that right I think you can do that a nucleon commercial - I'm oh well I learned how to percent sure on that I actually alright so let's try something so let's create a plane here in Maya let's make it so that's one centimeter make it maybe 150 150 so that's one and a half meters let's bring in a file texture note like this and load in this file I should have here so I have this year which is the ACC g1 of I bring it in it comes in as aces so that's the one I converted let's just maybe rename this I have a little helper here which renames all my nodes nice and then I have a surface texture from Arnold surface centered surface shader I hook it up make sure my base is on one and I have actually the same for my shader name so I can just do AI floor and I can do run this guy again convert the shading engines alright so let's see if it does do it I guess it does not display it properly at least not in here well there's a bit more range let's see what else we can do yeah I thought the viewport supports it a bit better all right anyway so just to say well that all right so if I would render this now let's just create a light first so if I create a white dome light hit render it should be fairly dark right and this is not what you would expect with a dome light of one you should X you would expect it to be pretty bright I think let's just see if my cores are low enough okay I just don't want to mess up the stream if I have all my threats working on this let's just do this okay all right but you can still see their souls still the colour in here so if I disable a speck your since you can see that two steps up you can still see there is all this detail alright so the benefit of this now if you blast light on this you need a lot more light intensity to actually get something working so instead if I create a direction light which is a Sun light and I point this on the surface like this and I hide my dome light yeah my dome light hide it everything gets black and now I need to boost it so you can definitely boost the intensity but I always tend to boost the exposure something like this so if you put in something in the sunlight it gets most of the time if it's like 12 p.m. Sun it blasts away any color it's like almost Oh white so if you put in for instance a white sphere it should just be really really bright so if I sign a shader do this it should be super bright and it is super bright which is a cure but you do not know what kind what what is accurate what color response is accurate right it's super hard to judge so what another standard is in VFX is they have grey spheres and they have chrome sphere right and what they do with that is it's kind of for them a measuring tool to know how much light comes back or at least in an CG on the computer in the end it's easier to match something so what pretty much what happens quite a lot is that you have a grey sphere which has a value of 0.18 which is yeah which is like this right and this value here is supposed to be now a mid-grade tone so this is pretty much how you can calibrate it so it it still you still have your gray tones here on the sides but it still gets blasted if you hold a gray sphere in the Sun it will not look gray to your eye it will still look really blasted especially on this on the Sun side but on the shadow side it will be super crunchy right so if you have a set up and for especially for interior lighting which is kind of the title of this video it is important that you have exact Sun values but that you don't know what this exact cent of Sun values are is like there's haze in the environment there's kind of cloudy can be overcast and whatnot but I have read quite a few papers about this and the Sun at least when it's on a 12 like a noon position it it gets super bright and you get values up to 60,000 even sometimes a bit more 65,000 but typically the average is around 50 maybe 45,000 based on human haziness and and nowadays pollution right so if I would create a little thing here a little cube which should be my my room so this is now 1.5 meters room which is definitely very small box we can just make this a bit larger quickly so 150 let's make it 300 and maybe 600 wide and move it up all right so this would be now my room which is also getting blasted so that's just first check if the stream is still alive you guys have been very quiet I'm not sure if it still go in here that's just that we'll check here well feel free to ask any questions so that that that way I know that everything is still cooking here all right life session let's check it out seems it's still going all is good I wasn't sure if it really caught up like because I'm rendering all the time I'm not sure if it's limiting the upload or the end coding but it seems to be fine anyways okay continuing so let's just do some very very basic extrusions here just to get some kind of light in this window here something like that and we just do I could have done a better job by subdividing it or instead inserting edge strips beforehand but I'm just doing this now so one two three four windows let's let's do extruder again offset them keep them together off and just delete them okay all right so if I create a camera now great camera from view look through the camera change my settings on this to be more fish I'd so maybe 18 zoom in here going here so now I see my nice little lofty apartment and call this main come like that right so you guys I guess know that Arnold is struggling a bit with this kind of stuff interior lighting is not the strength of oil just because it needs a lot and I mean it a lot of rays to actually produce proper light bounces yeah this will stretch the texture now but it doesn't really matter okay so let's just move it to here and maybe I should save it to scenes and let's hit render alright so you can see now ooh there's something going on but there is nothing on the walls if you look at the wall with your eye or when you look in your room around yourself you can see there is light everywhere there is nothing there's nothing really black in there just because everything is bouncing yeah so what's going on so you can see if I look from inside it you can see there's something going on but it's really really really bad so it's just a sign of standard surface shader you can see it got better sentence of the shader a bit better make sure it's on one so this is pretty much what's happening right so you can see it gets super noisy and it does not really want to resolve and even like I don't have much render settings going on here and not not much sample so that is definitely one problem and I can tell you there's not not much magic you need to push your samples a lot to get clean results but a few little tricks which we can still do so one thing which Arnold does is to optimize its fireflies and it's clamping issues SR it's it's at sampling issues and what is it what it does it actually clamps your your indirect bounces and it does that to optimize you seen so there's not so much energy being bounced off all the time so within advanced no with the in clamping you can see that the inner eggs are being clamped at a value of 10 if I put this to one you can see that the noise is gone but there's also not more light going on because once the light hits off the surface the energy which gets balanced off is only limited to a value of one but as I said before if the Sun has a value of let's say 50,000 it's impossible that the floor absorbs all that and energy and only bounces of one value back right it needs to bounce a lot more energy back and this clamp here would limit that so what you can do you can just I'm not sure it should be pretty much equivalent to your Sun intensity but I don't know you can try maybe I don't let's try 40,000 so now you can see everything got super-bright here right just because of that which which does not help really solving things but then another thing is diffuse bounces r8f so what we say what what is limited right now the ray hits the surface it bounces off once and it bounces off twice and it dies and real world doesn't happen it bounces it bounces it bounces until the energy is lost which we currently do not do here so what you can do you can definitely boost up your your diffuse bounces I make sure your total bounces are equally high like that so now it's so very messy the problem is we don't have enough too few samples and we are just three eight samples one day few samples so not much going on here so what I would suggest boost up your AAA samples depending on if you want to run a depth of field or not boost that guy up and then you need a lot more too few samples to clean this image up so let's see if this actually does anything better it takes a bit of time to get the final steps in but this is currently what we have and it's not perfect honestly it's not so this is also based on your your Sun intensity so even though now your eye exposed to this differently if you are indoors you would not see like these black shadows honestly you wouldn't and this is just because your eye adjusts it's like it has a dynamic range of everything so essentially what you would need to do is you would need to boost the sunlight even more let me just see what the shader is on the sky I think we do have balance let's just get rid of the specs for now so and turn to get it even even better you need also a skylight because what you see is not just the Sun a good question about the portal lights so I want to talk about that as well it's it's there's a weird misconception or an on misconception but I would say a kind of issue with that it does help to redirect the race but I'll let I'll talk this into this a bit more detail so I think yeah you might be right that I miss messed up something with the conversion here but let's leave it for for now like am I am I in my little render here I did not do that actually no let me just bring that up I just want to show you actually the result of this one second image is almost there so this year as you can see is using the same thing and I did not actually do the this conversion to CG because I think it was I did it twice as someone suggested in the chat so let's just see what happens if I actually change it and I did not also I didn't even convert it to T XR so that might be also some startup time issues we had so let's just use this one quickly and just see what's happening with this and I think this actually also will use the Excel files sorry at the X Files yeah so this is now reading it in as a it's still using Asus workflow but it's it's specified as a as a correct map let's let's just make sure it is actually so where is it too many things in here ok let's try this again good see I gotta look brighter so this is now you it's still using the Asus workflow but we're just saying this texture is a because it's clamped to an srgb gama which is because it's an internet texture you can just specify to OCIO or to the renderer that this is a Tec srgb texture and it will still handle it the right way and you can see now everything got a lot brighter just because of that change so I think we might have gone a bit too much on the exposure let's see what values we have here so in the Sun here we have values of I'm looking at the bottom we have values of ranging from 6 to 8 and in the shadow it's point 2 which is a bit low but the walls are pretty white right so we have a fairly white wall right now setup so the next step to do is to add an ambient light and we should be doing that you can use the physical sky or you can just use something like this but ideally I would recommend you create the physical sky hi just the other SkyDome like it just had and make sure that you disable the Sun where is it in the physical sky you don't want the Sun here and then you can just boost it until you see the correct bounce of this surface here does it actually have a speck it doesn't have specks all right so with that enabled now you can see that you can actually see the skies being reflected on the floor and you can also see that this is bouncing off everywhere so you make the renderer happy by giving it more and more samples to work with right and you can even push this because there is a lot more ambient lighting around you than you would expect so let's just push this up a bit bit further so ever intensity of five we can go maybe to seven or even eight so this is only now diffuse lighting there's no direct light and you can see even that helps already to fill up the room of light and another thing is it does help to create more holes in your objects like even in in your home you have lots of doors which all bounce off light and which give you more light to to bounce up in the scenes so keep that in mind too it does it just does help to create more little openings in your scenes no not extract it not sure thing it's doubling up here okay so now we have an another little hole here which which that's some light and if I render now you should see that there's even more light coming in and you can see the ceiling is getting lit up not just because we have this light from the side here and I can move the camera but close forwards and I will have a dedicated tutorial about this interior lighting scene but this is I just want to show you the setup of this guy for now okay you can see now this is only indirect so if I bring back the direction light you can see now it's it's super bright but it's getting somewhere now right it's it's very warm there's not much weirdness anymore and it's just crude useless and slightly and you always want to try to get the correct colors back so right now our wall texture is fully white our wall so it's fully white you don't have white in real life really I think the widest white is 0.94 if I remember and I think that's pure snow so typically your average wall colors might be around 0.8 so you should try to get something similar back if you want to expose correctly so this is now obviously bouncing off the sunlight and everything but yeah it's bouncing off the floor as well so if you change your directional light now you should you get different results obviously you will get less bounce at some point so now you can see it gets really dark but you still get the ambience because it's bouncing off and it you have this ambient light everywhere if you bless it indirectly on the walls you should see it being a lot a lot brighter right like this please check the clamp value not sure what that means so if I clamp it back to 2 you see you lose all the energy again so this is pretty much a lot darker right so yet so another quick question how how do you know what the Sun intensity is right it's a valid question how would you measure that but a good good way of doing this is to actually measure it and not with a little light meter but what you can do you can measure or you can actually take a camera outside let me actually just find that if I if I actually do find it there's like a nice little article about is capturing this Sun mm-hmm I'm just looking on my second monitor and the meantime we can actually right near this quickly capturing the Sun okay so how you capture the Sun you would use the same or similar approach how you would capture a regular HDI but you cannot with a regular camera you cannot capture the full range of the Sun right it's impossible because the light the Sun only I saw the camera only as I think 12 stops or maybe 16 I don't know but the Sun the sun's whole range is more or less 24 stops so it has 24 different stops until fully bright till fully black so what you would do you would use an ND filter which is pretty much like a black glass which you put in front of your lens which enables you to have the camera capture more like in a darker kind of it's like offset in in a more darker darker range I would say so you capture if you'll regular camera with these five evey stops and to bracket with those five brackets using two Evie stops so you get 12 stops and then you put the ND filter on top and you do this again right and then you you merge them all together and then you can bring it you can't you merge them together in photomatix or on any other different merging software and then the color values you get back from that or super high so it's around 40k or 50k depending about the haze or the Sun position in the sky so I will share these two guys as well which you can have a look to which is also very helpful if you want to get the right color ranges and whatnot like this okay so let's see what this so it's still cooking but you can see now even like these this little setup here you can see that we get a nice white room we get nice shadows where they're supposed to be shadows and we get the light bouncing around obviously all of this needs some fine-tuning and what also does help if you give your your lights more samples as well don't go overboard depend it all depends on your AAA samples you have but what I like to do for the Sun is to create softer shadows so we can specify an angle of 205 or something like that which produces some softer shadows which is just a nice feeling to all of this right like that softer shadows here ok so then now let's just talk about a different approach of doing this and there are different approaches of doing this for instance porta lights was mentioned in the chat just now so I was saying it's it's it's not a good idea to use porta lights because they pretty much fake the light transport and you would use porta lights without directional lights right so the SkyDome light now is pretty much a hgi right would and this one doesn't have the Sun so if I would bring in the Sun in here and I think we need to find where it's supposed to be now it's coming in here the Sun is coming in there so this is would be now a physical physical sign of sky so what you can do you can use Port lights Arnel does not have a physical camera thing here so all of this is I see the confusion so no it does not have it you do know that you well you have something similar I guess but it's let's see what do you have here you just have exposure in here but you do not have physical camera controls so for instance Maxwell Maxwell they have it and you should set it to this to the correct colors to the correct ISO if you want want it to be all right so portal lights if I create a portal I'd what it does it redirects to raise the light race from the outside from the big hgri and it redirects them using the portal into your scene like this you can see now things have changed and what it does if you have objects close to the sport light they get more range more color than they would be in the far just because there's a fall-off to this and which means that you kind of have a different full of it like ever as close to the windows will get a lot brighter and what I see people do as well is instead of using this kind of workflow they use area lights and they put them in front of the windows let's see if I could show that as well and I know why it was done and it was at that time a good thing to do that but now or at least I can only speak for Arnold right now is they changed the way area lights lose their energy they changed it from a non-physical way to a physical way which is exponential or sorry it's quadratic fall-off which they hard-coded to all the lights so if I disable if I disable the Sun again we only get the environment light and if I put my area light in here first of all having these big area lights will cause very soft shadows because they are so large the Sun is actually very very very very tiny compared to an area light it's like it's almost the size of a of a needle head or something like that right so first of all area lights they do not make sense because you can see it already you get super soft shadows but now you want to get some exposure on the floor right so obviously you would boost it let's say 12 stops 15 stops so now you can see what's going on and I've seen people do this and you can see you can easily tell it's full CG because you get exactly this phenomenon here super bright just falling off very fast and that is the nature of an area light it is super intense close to the surface and I bet if you would fly to the Sun you would get the similar similar condition you would burn away the closer you get to the Sun because it gets every so harder the closer you get to it but the earth is super super super far away from the Sun so to mimic this effect what we could do or what you should do in this case put the area light very far away make sure that you your spread is super low which is kind of a cone angle to this area light try to aim for your little window and blast the exposure up by I don't know buy a lot right now maybe 24 and then you get a similar thing right you're blasting it you don't get this weird fall-off anymore because it's super far away and this is a way of doing it but again if you use an area light you shoot rays like an airy light is known for it it's 180 degrees spread of samples so by using the spread you reduce the spread of the end of the of the race to 20 degrees I guess it is or 20% of 180 whatever that is and you still lose samples so why just not use a direct light which doesn't have it is a linear light pretty much there's no fall-off to this and you use that and you get a lot better results like this let's see if everything is still in order yes yeah and you still have the shadow softness and you don't have that weird fall off because it's close you can put it wherever one it's an infinite light and it will not calculate race which go past the surface so this is definitely a way which you should be doing or that's how I understand it at least you should be doing it and not using and not using area lights unless obviously it is a nighttime scene and you have localized light so if I would hide my Sun the moon is not that bright or at least the the sky at night is not that bright so we can we could lose the intensity here go back to three maybe but there still you still see reflections even at night maybe not as strong as this but then obviously if you are indoor yes you have light sources which do exactly that so you put an area light in here move it up and maybe make it eight what do we have this make it a cylinder so it's a pretty much like a neon tube or something and then it's totally legit to do that right it's just if you want to light an interior scene with sunlight it's not a good idea to use area lights for that because it's not physical so if I boost this up now by and I agree with Nicolas it is it is a guessing thing until you get the right results you want so this would be obviously now some kind of light and you can see even but just by doing this using this ASA setup you can see that it is working you get the bounce everywhere but it's not bright enough like you would need to boost it to get a correct response here so I don't know let's try maybe fourteen and you can see now just by doing that you get the nice light hitting it it's actually lighting up the environment but again like I'm not sure exactly what a light bulb value size but it they range from 200 to I don't know 15 or maybe not 15,000 but like 12,000 units at least in this kind of space right so but as again like like Nicholas said it is a guessing game you you should really know what how things look in the real world and replicate them it's it's not hunting it not so easy to get exactly the right pipeline I think why aren't the siding so of everything just like light decays physical why aren't the settings so I know that earlier versions of Arnold there was an option to change the fall-off from linear to quadratic effort to exponential to quadratic but they removed it so all the light fall of is quadratic which is physical this is how light falls off it's the inverse square law and this is what is built in here the sky the only thing which doesn't have it is the directional lights and I think even you cannot change anything here right so this is kind of the idea behind that yep so and I will have a little tutorial about this how I set this one up it's this will be a bit more about luke dev and lighting obviously like I just want to create those shaders and create a like a nice representation of the scene in a tutorial but it's pretty much based off the same idea I just showed you and you can still see it is a bit noisy there we go yes you can add blockers but this is again yeah this is everything is then again just breaking physicality right so why it's to not fall off in a linear way so you could you could do that yes I just didn't really want to present these options just because it's it will not help you much but again you do not have the option to say oh I wanted to fall off quadratically right I'm not sure if the light blocker has any more options than this I don't think so no it doesn't yeah so there's no real way of just doing this I guess so this is where is my son yeah and then this is pretty much how it is and what does help and I can only encourage to have a look at this is to read through these things to understand what the benefit is of having all these different options in here and obviously you have different options in here you can view it in different kind of Luntz as well so this is right now viewing it in srgb which which most of the monitors would display it as but internally it still uses all the different kind of light energy which it has but I like to viewed in an mp3 and you can see it everything changes slightly I'm not sure how much it's visible on the stream right now but it did change a bit and then you have different kind of intensities different kind of nit values so if you if your monitor supports that if you have four to 4,000 NIT monitor I don't think it exists I think I have a thousand at monitor so if you do this you can see everything that's again darker and then you can push your values again a lot further and you can generate even more energy to your whole scene right so I could go now on eight or even twelve right and now this is white and now everything is it gets super washed out but you can see there's just so much more color to this and I'm just curious now if I switch this to this different kind of texture what happens let's double check this so that is interesting I might need to explore this a bit more so this is now using I'm not sure if it's using the right that will expose one but this is now viewing it and e60 white balance and it's a p3 gamut so it looks still very washed out I'm not sure if it's working about I don't think it is working well anyways go back to this and change the texture back and yes I think the tutorial I will be setting up is how do you set the things up properly like at least the tutorial about this so most of this is not really textured so the only tetris pieces are the leaves the posters in the back and the floor and I think all the rest is just simple shading so there's not much to it let's just reduce the direction light yeah way too bright I think now I messed it up completely I'm not sure I think I changed some word setting what did I do yeah anyways I think I've messed up the colors now yeah it's still on aces which it shouldn't be okay so feel free to ask any questions and I will try to answer them now if they show up in time otherwise this is more or less all I wanted to explain or display is just just how to to see the benefits of all this well I can I can't really make it to tour about shader writing just because I would not feel comfortable doing so because I do not have the knowledge to create a proper shader I can do always cell shading yes but in a very very basic way it's more like utility shading in OSL so that's something else Nicolas asked if I can make a tutorial on how to set up looked at scenes and that again is I can do it it's it's not that easy though and I guess you know it's not that easy it's not that easy because everything needs to be captured properly you need to have and exactly properly captured environment you need to have your exact matching Macbeth charts you need two of your spheres and everything you need to know for instance what albedo color has your grace fear is it is it a reflection of 18 percent or is it less you need to know all that and all this stuff is not to so easy to come to so all we can do here what I can do is like estimate stuff right I put their value of point one eight which is an estimate then I pretty much eyeball everything it's not there is no exact formula right now to create hundred percent accurate renderings or at least not as I know it yeah I worked in a few productions and most of them nowadays they try to use the standard which is open color i/o so sometimes you work in an AC cgo then you convert that you do like a like a like a grade into a different color space just like have a working space so everything you get from the plates every texture or every camera place you get back or in that same working space and then you just do your lighting you looked at your lighting everything in the same space and in the end you apply the grade which is then sent to the client pretty much and the idea is that everyone is pretty much using the same standard so everything is it's a uniform color pipeline yeah it's a crazy topic Nicholas like and it there's still so much to explore and if you follow like Anna's Langlands or all these guys working in the field it's super interesting with what they come up with an ICT stuff all these kind of things day they create oakley wrangle scans or I CT scans all this is to help generating better pictures right yeah it's not just by though there is actually the quest question from Chuck so Fela was he doesn't see a difference between aces workflow and sRGB workflow so the thing is I'm not sure how he tested but if I switch this now - srgb here it it is not actually the srgb you would have without aces this is just a view transform which kind of brings the gamut back down to srgb but it still used the aces stuff like the the wider color ranges to generate those pixels if you would go in your settings here color settings no not color settings if you would go into your system settings and you would disable this OCIO color pipeline and have everything in srgb or whatever you had before and you render the same image you should definitely see a difference pretty sure okay trying to follow up here yes thank you so could you please explain the difference between intensity and exposure I can try and I think it's easier to show it and nuke probably well we can try it in here well so if I if I'm a new cure and I have a texture I have a grade like that right after you this so if I multiply this this is just getting this is now on - it's twice as bright three three times as bright right four times five times as bright ten times as bright so this is this is multiply is exactly intensity it's just whatever you have you multiply the value by with that number so just it's a linear linear multiplication linear intensity exposure is using quadratic I think if I'm not mistaken so if you go two stops one stop from zero to 1 which means this is double intensity so from zero is what the default is if you put one one exposure one stop it gets twice as bright if you put two stops it's get it gets four times as bright three and this is now already eight times as bright so if I if I did my math right I hope eight and exposure of three should be equivalent it's the same thing right an exposure is used in in the camera so in every DSLR camera you have exposure so it's it's called Evie and it's just the way it used to be it's on film camera so you'll hear DP saying Oh bring it down half a stop bring it up half a stop which means just make it a bit darker or a bit lower right so if I go from 0 and make it a quarter stuff brighter this is how it would look like and a quarter stop I'm not actually sure what is it twice as bright no I can't be it needs to be maybe we'll see right so this is pretty much it so exposure is just a different way an easier way to control intensities or at least for me like it like is especially you can see like if you have a sunlight which has 22 stops right you put it in here you get values of super-high well I did it sixteen thousand I think it is so to get the same color maybe that's let's go not go that extreme ESCO maybe 18 so now we have 40,000 and red here on this texture on this picture right so if I stop it down you cannot you cannot even display it here in New Vegas and we don't need to we can just check the color values but to get the same effect you would need to have a very very high multiplication to get this to how two thousand twenty thousand so this is two hundred thousand units now and I think it's pretty close to my exposure you see so you would have if you want to have the exact same response in in the renderer you would need to put in an intensity of two hundred thousand or you put in it has a range of 22 or eighteen stop so this is pretty much difference here hope that's clear now how much sure I actually wanted to do that before I went to nuke yeah alright let's see what else questions we have you say alright your SRU being pleased I'm just trying to go through the questions yeah obviously if you work with physical lights you should also work in physical units so it doesn't make sense if you have a I know a room which is normally ten meters and you have it you have a scene scale of I know ten centimeters of this so you should definitely try to make everything and the as close as possible if you want to go for photorealistic renderings yeah Nicholas you you can do that you can capture the sphere and sunlight and replicate that but you like you unless you've know what albedo color the gray sphere is it will still be eyeballing it and theory you're right I agree but you would need to know exactly what it what the color is right so and you can get it you can get you can buy proper gray spheres which have a specific albedo which you can apply and you should get the same results totally yeah if you wanted this foam shader which is from shaders XYZ from Z no you can go to that website and I think they have some OSL stuff in there let's see I mean yeah okay so this has been a long stream today and again I if I I'm not a color guy I can just pretty much explain what I know right now and this is pretty much that so every day I'm learning things and getting better or not better depends but I'm learning things and I'm trying to get better and this is I ask questions that poor guy ask questions and forums I'm active and I'm just trying to fully understand stuff so I I would recommend for everyone if you want to get into this do that like get more knowledge try to to learn these color things these weird different color spaces and whatnot it's super complex and it can get super yeah super hard to understand what's going on and if you don't have a PhD in that field but it's it's still worth checking out it just helps you overall knowledge about all this yeah I think I think I was saying you're right I doubled it up move the color space to write it as a SS CG and to change a color space and I agree I think that that's what happened so last question what happens with animation scene while you're outside and get into the room so yes this is this is a problem if you have a camera you expose it to the outside which is very bright so everything you you expose the camera down to capture the color you go inside everything is pitch black because you expose for the outside right your eye is clever enough to adapt for these changes so you you go inside you see light you go outside you don't see everything white right photo cameras have that problem and they try to reduce that effect using HDR what would which is the new term they ever they sell in in electronics like HDR monitors this and that it just means it's it's a 10-bit guy pretty much a 10 bit range or a 12 bit range or even higher and again I'm not sure I think the IC 6 stops difference don't quote me on that but it's it's it's definitely more than a camera can do and Asus has a wider gamut so potentially yes you you would not see this drastic change going from light to dark if you if you set it up properly because you just have more information right that's at least the idea all right so ask questions yeah please share those links I would HIGHLY appreciate that if you can just share this stuff these links to crisp Ray Jones section of Asus and yeah I have a few ones up here I have the FX PhD one I think up here where is it here this guy it's just it's just about the Asus stuff though but still a good read it's it's interesting so yeah feel free to check it out and yeah so the next tutorial I think will be about that room if I feel enough motivated to do this but you can see already just by setting this up you get you get the idea and again be sure to go to your render settings and make sure that you remove this clamping because it is clamping it by a lot so you can see if I clamp it by five how dark it gets right you're losing old energy so this is 10 which is the default and if I put in let's say ten thousand you can see now how much brighter everything gets just because the energy is still bouncing and if I go one more step you shouldn't see much of a difference but there is still a slight difference in here depending on your Sun intensity yeah so I think I talked about all the things I wanted to and yeah oh I actually forgot to do that let's see wait which is something I plan to do and I keep forgetting is adding a little button here which is full there now in your face so I don't really like to like ask for this but it does help my channel if you if you like what I'm doing and even though if it's not on PhD level at least for the color pipeline I would still appreciate the yeah the support I'm subscribing so yeah 20 stops thank you for checking it out so yeah you can see so if the I can see 20 stops you have definitely a way more capable camera and you had to process all these these brought these problems we face with with our cameras right now anyways yeah thank you guys for tuning in and I hope this was helpful to some and yeah so I will see you I guess in the next next live session or it might just be the next tutorial but thanks again for tuning in and I need to find the end stream but there it is okay see you guys thanks for joining goodbye

Channel: Arvid Schneider

Views: 18,319

Keywords: live, session, arnold, maya, autodesk, louise, rendering, shading, xgen, hair, groom, displacement, lighting, sss, arvid schneider, ocio, aces, arvid, aces workflow

Id: kReV9sUFe6E

Length: 77min 50sec (4670 seconds)

Published: Sat Nov 30 2019