REPORTING ON TRUMPS FINANCES, AUTHOR OF "THE MAKING OF DONALD TRUMP." GOOD TO SEE YOU. LETS START WITH YOU, DAVID. YOU KNOW INS AND OUTS OF TRUMP AND THE ORGANIZATION AND THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED FOR HIM. THIS IS NOT A NAME, McCONNEY , THAT A LOT OF OUR VIEWERS WILL BE FAMILIAR WITH. IT IS STILL A NEW AND EMERGING NAME. WHO IS THIS GUY? >> THIS IS A VERY SMALL ORGANIZATION THAT DONALD TRUMP RUNS AT THE TOP. DIRECTLY UNDER DONALD IS HIS FINANCE GUY, ALLEN WEISSLEBERG WHO KNOWS WHERE ALL THE BODIES ARE BURIED AND WHERE ALL THE MONEY IS. AND RIGHT BENEATH HIM IS JEFFREY McCONNEY. THAT HE HAS COME BEFORE THE GRAND JURY, WHICH UNDER NEW YORK LAW MEANS HE HAS IMMUNITY FOR ANYTHING HE TESTIFIED ABOUT, TRANSACTIONAL IMMUNITY, INDICATES THAT THEY ARE TRYING VERY HARD TO FLIP ALLEN WEISSLEBERG BECAUSE THATS WHERE HE WOULD BE MOST HELPFUL TO THEM IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, IS WHAT DID ALLEN WEISSLEBERG KNOW, WHICH IS EVERYTHING, AND IT WILL BE MUCH EASIER TO MAKE A CASE, WHETHER ITS A GARDEN VARIETY TAX CASE OR, AS I BELIEVE IS LIKELY, A NEW YORK STATE RACKETEERING CHARGE. >> LETS GO A LITTLE DEEPER INTO THIS, JOYCE , THIS TRANSACTIONAL IMMUNITY. "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTING THERE A UNDER STATE LAW, WITNESS SUCH AS MR. McCONNEY WHO APPEAR BEFORE THE GRAND JURY ARE GRANTED IMMUNITY ON THE SUBJECT OF THEIR TESTIMONY. THEY CANNOT EXERCISE THEIR FIFTH AMENDMENT RIGHT TO REFUSE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ON THE GROUNDS THAT THEY MAY INCRIMINATE THEMSELVES. TELL ME WHAT THAT MEANS AND WHY THAT IS SIGNIFICANT TO THIS TESTIMONY. >> THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM FEDERAL GRAND JURY PRACTICE AND ITS REALLY IMPORTANT IN THIS SITUATION BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT McCONNEY TESTIFIED IN THE GRAND JURY WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO ASSERT A FIFTH AMENDMENT RIGHT TO AVOID SELF-INCRIMINATION. HE ALREADY HAD IMMUNITY. HE HAD NO FURTHER RISK. THE PROBLEM THAT HE FACED IN THAT SETTING, THOUGH, WAS IF HE FAILED TO ANSWER TRUTHFULLY, HE COULD BE PROSECUTED DOWN THE ROAD FOR PERJURY. AND OF COURSE WE KNOW THAT CY VANCE HAS UNDERLYING DOCUMENTATION, SO ITS POSSIBLE MR. McCONNEY WAS ASKED TO EXPLAIN THAT PAPERWORK, EFFECTIVELY PUTTING HIM IN A BOX. AND HERES WHY IT MATTERS. McCONNEY, IT LOOKS LIKE, IS NOT THE TARGET FOR PROSECUTION HERE. POSSIBLE THAT HE HAS A DEAL WITH PROSECUTORS ALREADY AND THAT HES COOPERATING, YOU KNOW, BUT THIS IS CLEARLY A TIGHTLY KNIT CORPORATION AND ONE CAN IMAGINE HOW AWKWARD IT WOULD BE TO BE COOPERATING AND THEN TO GO INTO WORK THE NEXT DAY. SO PROSECUTORS ARE LOOKING UP THE CHAIN HERE. THEYRE LOOKING AT ALLEN WEISSLEBERG. ITS POSSIBLE THAT McCONNEY HAD TESTIMONY TO OFFER DIRECTLY ABOUT PERHAPS ONE OF THE TRUMP CHILDREN OR THE FORMER PRESIDENT HIMSELF. BUT THIS IS ALL BUILDING UP SO PROSECUTORS ARE ABLE TO TAKE A HARD LOOK AT THE PEOPLE WHO THEY BELIEVE ARE MOST CULPABLE FOR WHATEVER CRIMINAL CONDUCT MAY HAVE OCCURRED. >> THATS GOOD QUESTION, DAVID. THE CULPABILITY. McCONNEYS BEEN WITH TRUMP FOR A LONG TIME, SO HAS WEISSLEBERG. THESE PEOPLE ARE LOYAL OR HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST LOYAL TO DONALD TRUMP. YOU OFTEN POINT OUT THAT LOYALTY WITH DONALD TRUMP ONLY GOES ONE WAY. HELL THROW ANYBODY UNDER THE BUS IF IT SUITS HIM. SO WHAT DO THEY HAVE THAT WOULD CAUSE McCONNEY TO TALK? JUST THE IDEA THAT THIS GUY HAS SEEN THOUSAND BUSINESS RUNS FOR MORE THAN THREE DECADES AND CAN EXPLAIN THAT TO THEM AND TELL THEM WHAT WEISSLEBERG PROBABLY KNOWS OR SAW? >> WELL, ID SAY THERES A HIGH LIKELIHOOD THE PROSECUTORS HAVE SOMETHING ON McCONNEY THAT IS UNRELATED TO THE TESTIMONY THEY NEED FOR THE CASE THEYRE TRYING TO BUILD, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION AND SOME OTHERS. SO BEING AROUND DONALD TRUMP FOR A LONG TIME, THERES A FAIRLY HIGH LIKELIHOOD THAT HE IS ENGAGED IN SOME OTHER KIND OF BEHAVIOR THAT GAVE THE MANHATTAN PROSECUTORS SOME LEVERAGE ON HIM APART FROM THE TESTIMONY HES GIVEN THAT HE HAS TRANSACTIONAL IMMUNITY FOR. THAT IS MAN WHOS BEEN WITH DONALD LONGER THAN IVE KNOWN HIM, AND IVE KNOWN DONALD FOR 33 YEARS, SO HE HAS A LONG TRACK RECORD WITH HIM. AND DONALD MENTIONED HIM IN ONE
OF HIS BOOKS AS THE GUY WHO WAS OF HIS BOOKS AS THE GUY WHO WAS TO CHECK INVOICES TO MAKE SURE HE WASNT BEING CHEATED. THAT ALSO MAKE ME WONDER ABOUT WHAT IT WAS THAT GOT THE PROSECUTORS TO FEEL CONFIDENT THAT GRANTING TRANSACTIONAL IMMUNITY TO McCONNEY WAS GOING TO BE USEFUL TO BUILDING THEIR CASE. >> JOYCE, YOU AND I PROBABLY TALK ABOUT THIS CASE ABOUT ONCE A WEEK. AND OUR VIEWERS, WHO PROBABLY HAVE A BETTER LEGAL KNOWLEDGE THAN I DO, ARE PROBABLY CURIOUS AS TO WHERE WE ARE IN THIS PROCESS. FROM YOUR RECKONING, WHERE IS THIS IN THE PROCESS? DO THEY JUST KEEP GATHERING EVIDENCE UNTIL THEY HAVE ENOUGH TO EITHER MOVE FORWARD WITH OR DECLINE TO DO ANYTHING WITH? >> THATS REALLY THE POINT THAT PROSECUTORS ARE AT HERE. THEYRE LOOKING TOWARDS MAKING A PROSECUTIVE DECISION. DO THEY DECIDE THERES SOME SORT OF AN EVIDENTIARY FAILURE OR MAYBE THEY CANT FIND ANY CRIMES THAT WERE COMMITTED. BUT THIS SPECIAL GRAND JURY THAT VANCE SUMMONED GOES THROUGH NOVEMBER. IT CAN BE EXTENDED AND AS A PROSECUTOR YOURE OFTEN NOT WORKING ON THE CLOCK. YOU DONT SET AN ARTIFICIAL DEADLINE. YOU KEEP INVESTIGATING TO THE POINT WHERE YOURE CONFIDENT THAT YOU EITHER HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO INDICT OR YOU REALIZE YOURE AT A DEAD END WHERE YOU CANT. BUT THIS GRAND JURY WAS SUMMONED AFTER AN INTENSIVE INVESTIGATION OF A LOT OF FINANCIAL PAPERWORK, TAX PAPERWORK, AND NOW THEYRE
