Norm Geisler: If God Why Evil

[Music] [Music] [Applause] thank you god bless you rick said he wanted to have the brightest minds in the country for the conference he invited them and they couldn't come and so here i am actually one of my students came to me some time ago and he said dr geisler we think you're smarter than einstein so i commended him for his insight and he said no that's not what i mean what i mean is there are only three people in the world who could understand what einstein was saying and nobody can understand what you're saying so i'll try i will try and make this uh short and sweet and right to the point my topic for today is if god why evil if god why evil if god why the holocaust if god why 9 11 if god exists why virginia tech and 207 there are three basic responses to the problem of evil the pantheist all as god and god is all mary baker patterson glover eddie she had several husbands affirmed that god exists but evil doesn't atheists affirm that evil exists and god doesn't theist which is what we are belief in one god believe both god and evil that's a problem in fact it's a problem for all of the views how do we explain an absolutely perfect god and the existence of evil well pantheist explanation is unrealistic in science and health with keith the scripture mary baker eddie said god is all therefore all that really exists is in and of god evil is but an illusion and has no real basis now the poet put it this way there was a pantheist of deal who said that though pain is not real yet when i sit upon a pin and it punctuates my skin i just like what i fancy i feel the problem with pantheism is it's not very realistic if evil is not real then why does it seem so real why does death and sickness and cancer and hatred feel so real where did the illusion come from why is it that everyone seems to have the same illusion and why can't we make it go away if it's just an illusion as a matter of fact pantheism is unrealistic atheism is ungrounded c.s lewis was an atheist and he said my argument was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust but how had i got this idea of just and unjust man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line of course i could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own but if i did that then my argument against god collapsed there's no grounds for atheism because his statement that the world is not just demands that he knows what's just but if there's a moral law that says be just there must be a moral law giver pantheism is unrealistic atheism is ungrounded evil cries out for god it cries out for god in three ways first of all to explain how we know it's evil ravi zacharias has a very effective way of saying this when he gets a relativist in his group he'll say to him let me ask you this is there anything wrong anywhere because if there's anything wrong anywhere then there must be some standard of right if there's some moral prescription then there must be a moral prescriber so rather than crying out against god evil cries out for god secondly who's going to comfort you even nietzsche bemoaned the fact nietzsche was the one you remember said god is dead sign nietzsche and an invisible hand wrote under it nietzsche is dead sign god remember him he said i don't have anyone to come from me but always it does the others who believe in god there's no one to comfort me the time that you're in evil and suffering is not the time to cry out against god it's the time to cry out for god read the psalms and who's going to give the victory over evil who's going to make it possible for us to overcome the evil rather than cry out against god evil cries out for god in three ways to explain how we know it's evil to comfort us in our sorrow over evil and to give us victory over evil now here's the problem of evil for believers we believe that god is all good and opposes evil we believe that god is all-knowing and he foreknew that evil was going to happen adam and eve didn't catch him by surprise someone said it wasn't the apple on the tree it was the pear on the ground that got us in trouble well god knew that they were going to do that he knew before it happened he's all-knowing god is all-powerful he can defeat evil now if you have an all-good all-knowing and all-powerful god then why does he permit evil that's the problem for the christian in fact there are many problems of evil first of all the problem of the nature of evil if god created all things and evil is something then it would appear as though god created evil now we can't say god didn't create all things that would be giving up our theism and some form of dualism that evil was there forever we can't say evil isn't real because then we'd end up with pantheism but it looks like if god created all things and evil is something therefore god must have created evil the response to this was given by saint augustine around 400 a.d in his book the anti-manichaean writings he said evil is not a thing evil is a corruption of a good thing god made only good things evil is a corruption of the good things that god has made evil is like rot to a tree you never have something that's totally rotten uh totally rotten tree is topsoil you know uh totally rotten tree doesn't exist you have to have a tree for rot to exist in it evil is like rust to a car you never have a totally rusted car for totally rusted it'd be a brown spot on the pavement you know you have to have iron to have rust in it evil is like moth holes and a cloth you have to have a cloth there they have holes in it god made the good thing evil corrupted the good thing you can't have a totally moth eaten garment what would that be that'd be a hanger in your closet the problem of evil for theism the response is this god created only good things evil is not a thing so god did not create evil that doesn't mean evil isn't real it's real it's a real lack blindness is a real lack of sight if you don't think it's real then just put a blindfold on try and walk around for a day it's a real handicap it's a real lack it's a real privation evil is real but it's not a real thing we say well where did the holes in the garment come from and the rust in the car and the rot in the tree where where did evil come from if god made only good things and evil is a privation of good things where did the evil come from and the answer to that is that god is absolutely perfect god cannot create anything imperfect and a perfect creature cannot do evil if god created a perfect creature they wouldn't be able to do something that was imperfect therefore evil cannot arise in such a world now that creates a serious problem for us because we can't deny the first premise god is absolutely perfect we can't deny the second one god cannot create anything imperfect and how can a perfect creature do something imperfect saint augustine in the 4th century wrote several books on this and his answer was very much to the point the response god is absolutely perfect no doubt god cannot create anything imperfect absolutely true a perfect creature cannot do evil is false a perfect creature can do evil because if a perfect creature is given certain perfections evil is made possible so let me illustrate it how a perfect creature can do evil now in biblical terms we're talking about lucifer the archangel uh and then later adam lucifer is a perfect creature no evil in his environment no tempter uh god created good things well he created one good thing that's called free will and he gave lucifer free choice he gave adam free choice now it's good to be free did you ever see anybody march back to bondage down with freedom i want to do everything my mother ever told me i mean nobody ever marches like that right we march for freedom and even if somebody did march against freedom he'd be freely doing it so it would be self-contradictory so one good thing that god created was free will free will makes evil possible since it's the power to do otherwise if you're free to love god you're also free to hate him if you're free to praise god you're also free to blaspheme him freedom is the ability to do otherwise to do otherwise then good is evil hence a perfect creature can do evil there is no way that god can make a free creature that can't do evil because freedom means the ability to do otherwise or we could make a robot but they're not free to love uh he can make an automaton but they're not free to praise god could make a puppet but they're not free to enter into interpersonal relationships a perfect creature that has free will can do evil so god made evil possible by giving us a good thing called free will we make evil actual by misusing the good thing that he gave us henry ford mass produced a car he made a lot of evil possible every time you go on the road that evil is possible but he's not responsible for every accident he's not responsible for everyone who misuses the automobile problem one how can one will evil when there is no evil to will i mean lucifer didn't have an evil nature he didn't have an evil environment there was no tempter there there was an absolutely perfect god an absolutely perfect environment how can one do evil when there is no evil to will response evil arose when a good creature lucifer with a good power free will will the finite good of the creature over the infinite good of the creator evil doesn't have to have good out there in order for it to occur one can create evil no evil needs to exist in order to will evil willing a lesser good can be an evil and lucifer will the lesser good of himself over the greater good of god and brought evil into this universe you say well then why didn't god stomp it out why don't you just nip it in the bud right there that leads us to the third question the persistence of evil here's the problem if god is all good he would defeat evil if god is all-powerful he could defeat evil but evil is not defeated just look around look at the tv in the newspaper look in the mirror evil is not defeated therefore no such god exists this is probably the most powerful argument atheists have ever devised this one argument has led to more skepticism atheism agnosticism than anything i know of if god is all good he could he would defeat evil if he's all-powerful he could evil is not defeated therefore there is no such god how do we respond well we agree with the first premise if he's all good he would defeat evil and we agree with the second premise if god is all-powerful he could defeat evil we disagree with the third one because they forgot one word yet evil is not yet defeated therefore it doesn't follow that evil will never be defeated it might be defeated later this afternoon or tomorrow or next week the fact that evil isn't yet defeated doesn't prove that it won't be for example the fact that i'm in the middle of a sentence doesn't mean that i'm not going to finish it or you're in the middle of a novel doesn't mean it's never going to have a proper ending wait and see therefore no such god exists does not follow note this conclusion does not follow since evil might yet be defeated in the future so the atheist argument his best argument collapses because he forgot the word yet now atheists are clever and so they sometimes say this if god saw good he would defeat evil if he's all-powerful he could evil never will be defeated therefore there is no such god good argument problem promise number three or c but evil never will be defeated there's no way that anyone could know that unless he were god because how do you know you'd have to be omniscient you'd have to know all future states of affairs to know that evil never will be defeated so in order for the atheist to defeat god he'd have to be god which is self-destructive there's no way for the objector to know this unless he is god namely in all knowing being the persistence of evil i think is the most important question that we can face here and the most important answer we can give to it is look carefully again at the very premises we agree that if god is all good he would we agree if he's all powerful he could defeat evil we agree that evil is not yet defeated but what follows rationally from those three premises is this therefore evil one day will be defeated how do i know the nature of a theistic god the nature of the god of the bible guarantees it because he's all powerful and can do it and he's all good and wants to do it so hang on it's coming he will do it and the proof that he will do it is the very nature of the god that they're attacking the god of the bible an all-powerful and all-good god well how can god defeat evil how can he possibly do it well he allows everyone to freely choose their destiny so freedom is preserved he doesn't have to make robots automatons puppets he allows everyone to be free and they choose which way they want to go so freedom is preserved then he defeats evil by one someday separating good from evil you know what bothers good people evil you know father's evil people good i used to work on the assembly line in detroit when i was growing up and i can tell you right there they're just good and evil people there's nobody in between you know what bothered me to evil people swearing cursing telling filthy stories blowing their smoke in my face you know what bothered them me reading my bible witnessing passing out tracts there's a solution to that in eternity there's going to be a smoking section and a non-smoking section you can guess which is which and no one's going to be able to blow smoke in your face and they're going to be able to smoke as long as they want to separating evil from good forever the bible says that in terms of the sheep and the goats the good fish and the bad fish separating good from evil by quarantining evil forever you know we do with contagious diseases we quarantine the people you know we do with people who are violent criminals we quarantine them from society we put them in a separate place there has to be a hell or there's no solution to the problem of evil because as long as somebody wants to do evil and as long as this evil disrupts good people then there has to be a place where it's separated now think of it heaven is a place where there'll be no more evil to frustrate good people nobody's swearing nobody cursing nobody doing anything evil to me praising god forever hell is a place where there's no more good to frustrate evil people where the hound of heaven stops barking and where when the last scroll of time is rolled up and the last candle is extinguished people will forever be in exactly the place they want to be by punishing evil and rewarding good if there is no reward for good and no punishment for evil then the solution to the problem has not occurred god will defeat evil by defeating death and satan what is the great evil the great and last evil is death has to be defeated or there's no solutions called the resurrection the devil is always going to be around unless he is separated from us forever and banished from the presence of god so there's no more temptation you will never be able to say the devil made me do it now according to the bible this was officially done when christ came the first time and according to the bible this is going to be actually accomplished when christ comes the second time let's look at the official defeat of evil colossians 2 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us which was contrary to us and took it out of the way nailing it to his cross and having to spoil principalities and powers he made a show of them openly triumphing over them in it jesus paid it all all to him we owe sin has left a crimson stain his blood is washed in white as snow he officially defeated evil on the cross for as much then as the children are partakers hebrews 2 of flesh and blood he also himself likewise took part of the same that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death that is the devil and deliver them who through the fear of death for all their lifetime subject to bondage the devil was officially defeated he was declawed and defanged at the cross he's got a bark but no bite because jesus took the bite away from it now when's it going to actually happen that's the second coming revelation 19. i saw a heaven open behold a white horse and he that sat upon it was called faithful and true and in righteousness he does judge and make war the armies of which were in heaven followed him upon white horses clothed in fine linen white and clean out of his mouth goes a sharp sword that with it he should smite the nations he shall rule them with a rod of iron and he treads the wine press of the fierceness of the wrath of god almighty in revelation 21 says i saw a new heaven and a new earth and the first heaven the first earth were passed away and there was no more seed god shall wipe away all tears from their eyes and there shall be no more death neither sorrow nor crying neither shall there be any more pain for the former things that passed away yes evil has already been defeated officially at the cross you'll be defeated actually at the second coming how do we know there's going to be second coming there were almost 100 predictions in the old testament about the first coming and they were all literally fulfilled what city he would be born in when he would die how he would die how he would be born how he would suffer all there now if a hundred percent of the predictions about his first coming were fulfilled you can bet on it a hundred percent of the ones on the second coming will be fulfilled as well and what will jesus say when we see him i never said it would be easy i only said it would be worth it yeah evil is tough suffering is tough but it's going to be worth it all which leads us to our last question the purpose of evil why did god permit evil the problem is this and all good god must have a good purpose for everything but there is no good purpose for some suffering useless or innocent suffering what's the purpose for a little child getting cancer hence there cannot be an all good god that's a very painful pun intended problem because if god is all good he has to have a good purpose for everything but we all know things for which there's no good purpose hence there cannot be an all good god there is either a finite god doesn't have enough power to do it or no god at all response just because we don't know a good purpose for evil doesn't mean there isn't none see the atheist assumes that because we don't know something no one could know it well the problem is if god is all-knowing he knows it and if the atheist doesn't know it that doesn't prove god is dead it just proves he's dumb and doesn't know what the answer is just because we don't know a good purpose for evil doesn't mean there is none and all good all-knowing god knows a good purpose for everything some evil seems to us to have no good purpose but an all-good god has a good purpose for everything even what seems to us not to have a good purpose so even evil has a good purpose i just don't always know what it is we do not know all things we don't know the end of all things but god does he knows the end of all things and he knows all things and there are a couple verses to tuck away in your memory here deuteronomy 29 29 the secret things belong unto the lord our god but to us and to our children the things that are revealed i don't know why some things happen to me and i don't know why some things happened to you but i know why i don't know why because i'm finite because i'm a little microbe on a speck of cosmic dust off in the far flung corner of the universe and god is all-knowing now who do you think is going to know the answer to the problem secret things belonging to the lord our god romans 11 33 his ways are unsearchable and his judgments are past finding out yes there is a purpose for evil no i don't always know what that purpose is but i know that an all-good god has a good purpose and does know it and will bring good out of evil paul harvey became famous for what was known as the rest of the story he went to visit a young man whose life was being nipped into bud by cancer he went to encourage him he came away encouraged himself because a young man looked up at paul harvey and said i do not believe that the divine architect of the universe ever builds a staircase that leads to nowhere and i do not believe that the god whose purpose is revealed in nature whose purpose is revealed in creation whose purpose is revealed in scripture i do not believe that the divine architect of the universe has staircases that lead to nowhere you may think they aren't going anywhere because you don't see very far and you don't see very much but god sees as far as can be seen the end from the beginning isaiah 46 10 and he knows all things the divine architect of the universe has a good plan what we know about suffering god hasn't left us in the dark we do know some purposes for some evil some pain has a good purpose for example warning pains you get a toothache it's got a good purpose you better go to the dentist or you're going to be feeling down in the mouth glad some of you got that it's a little early i know another good pain a pain in the chest you get a sharp pain in your chest you better go to the doctor it may be a heart attack another good pain pain in the lower right side you get an acute pain there your appendix may have bursts there are a lot of good pains they're called warning pains secondly we know from experience that we learn more through pain than we do through pleasure i take this survey all over the country how many of you have learned an enduring lesson in life through pleasure raise your hand not many i didn't see any how many of you have learned an enduring lesson in life through pain raise your hand lots of hands well now there's the point why does god permit pain c.s lewis in his book on the problem of pain says it beautifully god whispers to us in our pleasure speaks in our conscience but shouts in our pain it's god's megaphone to arouse a deaf world god will not tie a rope around the donkey's head and bring him screaming and kicking in the kingdom against his will because god works only persuasively not coercively but god will knock the donkey on the head with the two by four some of you know that the ones that are laughing all know that put some images here god whispers in our pleasure lying on the beach in the breezes blowing through the palms you say it's great to be alive god whispers in our pleasure you're speeding down the highway 75 in the 55 zone you see a red light in the mirror and you feel a knot in your stomach it's called conscience god's speaking a little louder you're lying in the hospital dying you wound up like a mummy and god's shouting to you in your pain i know i've been there i was lying in the hospital dying of hepatitis guy next to me is dying of a heart attack the radio comes on and a senator died of hepatitis believe me god was speaking to me through pain i had all my sins confessed i was ready to go why because pain is god's megaphone to arouse a morally deaf world joseph said to his brothers who left him for dead you intended to harm me but god intended it for good to accomplish what is being done namely the saving of many lives it may happen from an evil person but god has a good purpose for it because our disappointments are often god's appointments what someone else did to you by intentionally harming you god was doing something in you to intentionally help you no discipline seems pleasant at the time but painful later on however it produces a harvest of righteousness hebrews 12 11. for our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us in eternal glory that far outweighs them all if you suffered pain from birth to death for 70 years how much is that in the light of eternity it's not even a pinch our momentary troubles are yielding for us an eternal weight of glory someone put it this way said the robin to the sparrow i should really like to know why these anxious human beings rush about and worry so said the sparrow to the robin friend i think that it must be that they have no heavenly father such as cares for you and me i was sent that poem while i was dying of hepatitis and i memorized it on the spot and god has graciously allowed me to pass it on this is not the best of all possible worlds voltaire was right in his book candide but it may be the best way to the best world evil has to be permitted to be defeated you can't defeat the champion unless you get in the ring with them god had to permit evil to destroy evil permitting evil is necessary to produce higher goods no courage without danger you can't produce patience without tribulation my buddy said norm you need to pray for patience in my early christian life i did one day i had three flat tires and the transmission fell out of the car that day it's the last time i prayed for patients you see you don't get patience without tribulation no character without adversity no pain no gain god permits evil to produce a greater good no forgiveness without sin to whom much is forgiven much is appreciated the best way to the best world this is not the best world possible but god is the best being possible now the best being possible must accomplish the best end possible but this world is the best way to the best end therefore making this world was the best way to achieve the best world possible god knew that we would never get to the promised land without first going through the wilderness god knew that christians would be like tea their real strength comes out when they get in hot water uh and god gives us the hot water god knew that you can't get the imperfections to the surface unless you put the heat on the gold and the imperfection surface and the heat of this world and the heat of suffering and pain is what makes the imperfections surface this is the best that free creatures be free to choose their own destiny god can't force free creatures to choose heaven that's a contradiction in terms c.s lewis saw this very clearly this is why everyone won't be in heaven when one says all will be saved my reason retorts without their will or with it if i say without their will at once perceive a contradiction how can the supreme voluntary act of self-surrender be involuntary if i say with their will my reasoning replies how if they will not give in you see god is love and love always works persuasively never coercively forced love is a contradiction in terms and the reason there's a hell is not simply that god is just and must punish evil but because he's so loving he won't force people against their will now my wife said honey be sure and tell him that one illustration because it means so much to her and being a good husband always obeying my wife i'm gonna now tell you what she told me to tell you if you can't stand being in church for one hour praising god and loving jesus how would you feel if you had to go to church forever it would be hell right heaven would be hell for an unbeliever who doesn't love jesus whose heart's not changed who didn't respond to his grace you can't force people into heaven jesus said o jerusalem jerusalem how often i have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings but you were not willing if you're not a believer god loves you christ died for you he rose from the dead and he wants you to be part of his family but you know what he can't force you into the fold it's contrary to his very nature to force his love upon you c.s lewis put it this way in his great book on hell there are only two kinds of people in the end those who say to god thy will be done and those to whom god says in the end thy will be done all that are in hell choose it without that self-choice there could be no hell there are only two kinds of people in this room those who have said thy will be done oh god and those who if they don't change their mind someday god will say to them have it your way thy will be done milton and paradise lost puts in the mouth of satan these words better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven and i added god's word you've got it let's pray father i pray there to be nobody here who will ever say that better to reign in hell than serve in heaven

Channel: Norm Geisler International Ministries

Views: 9,895

Keywords: Apologetics, reasonforhope, ChristFirst, NGIM, Problem of Evil, Norm Geisler, If God Why Evil, Philosophy, Christianity

Id: LjUlHU5oDeE

Length: 35min 37sec (2137 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 29 2020