Nightwing VS Red Hood | WHO WOULD WIN?

Nightwing vs Red Hood the first Prodigal Son of Batman versus the dark tragedy-stricken second Robin many fans of the bat family question who between the two would come out on top in a fight and had to go as far to say it's the most interesting and compelling matchup possibly found within Gotham City today I'll be analyzing each character to determine who would win a lot of factors go into a fight such as the characters mentalities and approach to combat for the sake of this video I'll be approaching it as if Nightwing and red hood are engaged in a hypothetical battle wherein neither former Robin is holding back they are each at the peak of physical condition and they each want Victory to the utmost Nightwing is much more against killing than Jason obviously however whether or not Todd wants to kill Nightwing won't make that much of a difference as I will demonstrate to make an accurate assessment of each character as a combatant I'm going to chart their battles over the years both against one another as well as those both Fighters have encountered respectively I'm only going to be considering Feats and statements from the main continuity DC Comic Universe no games or alternate else world storylines I don't care about vampires or zombies I'm talking about the actual Canon DC Universe something many need to realize when looking at comic book characters is how consistently they tend to improve over the Decades of publication history for example it would be asinine for me to compare Jason Todd as Robin versus Dick Grayson as Nightwing from his latest issue as an example because we all know that the former grows in prowess as he trains learns through combat adapts Etc this is pretty much true for all DC martial artists especially there are many instances of characters having trained on and off panel developing new techniques and greater confidence the specific journeys of these two bat family members will be explicitly explained henceforth but keep in mind that we are comparing the characters as they are currently as of October 2022 when they are essentially at their peaks of skill at least for now this is Comics so it could always change there's like a dozen different bat books in circulation right now which could feature a new fight with either combatant that could supersede what I'm about to detail by that same token however the earlier in DC's history we look into naturally the less relevant those fights will be when determining who would actually win at the moment this isn't so much about tallying up all of their wins and losses judging it that way because again saying red hood or Nightwing lost in 2007 doesn't mean they'd lose again in the current year so much happens in comics and so little real world time that they are essentially different characters in a combative sense the further along we go with that said however let's look at each character's progress and finally where they stand as of late to determine who between the first and second Robin would win in a fight after Jason was resurrected he was trained by various masters of killing from across the globe akin to Batman's initial Quest as well as being taught by the ancient Society of Assassins known as the AllCast it's worth stating that chronologically and continuity wise as it stands now these events while being retconned into having happened in the new 52 they would have taken place prior to the events of under the Red Hood in the current timeline right now every main continuity comic event is Canon to DC so one needs to understand that the Red Hood scene during battle with Batman and under the Red Hood had already undergone his all cast training in the current Canon even if it was retcon that is the case now starting in the early 2000s 2002's Batman number 600 to be exact night Wing picks a fight with Batman who has seemingly abandoned any trace of his Bruce Wayne identity leaving dick to wonder if the man who adopted him still exists the two do battle but it is fairly one-sided in the dark Knight's favor although dick does get one good hit in as opposed to Batman's one-two punch with the pair more or less evading each other throughout the rest of the scrap neither party is totally in their right mind dick isn't sure if he even knows who he's talking to right now as Batman's put Bruce Wayne aside nonetheless moving on both Nightwing and Batman are then shown training with Richard Dragon one of the top martial artists in the universe surely bolstering both fighter skills to give some idea Lady Shiva is probably the best martial artist in DC and has recently been shown one-shotting Batman stating that every other time they had fought she was playing a role and she considered Richard Dragon to be a rival or someone to contest with so this is very important to bring up Jason then returns as the Red Hood he can batch The Dark Knight while actually not wanting to kill him as revealed in Red Hood lost days you can go quote unquote all out in a fight without wanting to kill the other person C MMA as an example those Fighters are using the utmost of their power and technique but they aren't trying to murder their opponents so I don't think Jason's mindset in that regard makes much of a difference but still the bat family are pretty much never trying to kill one another anyway except when it comes to Jason versus dick what should make things interesting down the line in his fight with Batman he does fairly well scoring The Dark Knight many times however Bruce is of course going to be off his game given the fact that the child he failed to save is back and on a murder spree the bat family are all melodramatic dorks so these things are bound to happen more times than not so it can get very annoying when in these types of cases however it is worth noting that Jason does push Batman into not holding back in that kind of MMA sense where he then floors Jason with a combo for those familiar with the Red Hood animated movie this sequence is represented by Batman's slamming Jason's head into a toilet to give you a further idea of what this looks like between issues of under the Red Hood Jason Goes to Titan's Tower to Molly [ __ ] Tim Drake being portrayed as capable of physically dominating the third Robin in 2006 as a part of the one year later event Bruce dick and Tim all redo Batman's foundational Globe trotting training over the course of a year interestingly Grayson seems to already understand the nature of Bruce's training meaning he likely had secondhand knowledge of it from when he was taught initially as Robin regardless he would improve from learning firsthand the innumerable trials which mostly formed the Batman the first actual fight between Nightwing and red hood takes place in Nightwing 118 and 119. Jason adorning a Nightwing costume to antagonize his senior if it looks confusing Jason has the short her haircut but honestly even still it is kind of confusing with dick having broken a leg and an arm combating a pair of metahumans just prior to this bout Jason tags dick dick acrobatically outmaneuvers Jason and kicks him in the back Downing Todd Grayson Judo tosses him and the two grapple leading to dick hanging one-handed off a ledge Jason slashes at his one good hand causing dick to fall I think it's fair to say that if Nightwing wasn't working with half-functioning limbs he'd bully Jason here seeing as he got pretty good hits in all throughout the two fight again in Outsiders volume 3 number 44. Jason pulls up to just slide Grayson some info dick attacks first which leads to Red Hood shooting at him with his handgun meaning you know a proper fight has begun Nightwing slings Jason into a building by a wire Red Hood throws dick to the floor Grayson blocks a knife attack Jason compliments Grayson's skill dick nearly impales Jason with glass overhead kicks Todd in the face where Jason does the same gets tripped up hit in the head by neskrama and slammed into a wall dick calls it a stalemate due to the fact that they each have their weapons drawn on each other or Jason retorts that the bullet from his gun would sooner kill Grayson then he'd be able to crush his windpipe with his escrima he also says that he does not want to kill Nightwing but again he also did not want to kill Batman it's hard to judge this as anything other than a stalemate when judging points like a boxing match however when looking at it from a skill perspective dick did end the fight by pushing Jason into a wall I wouldn't call Jason just having a gun to point a dick a skill and would sooner argue that red hood ultimately got outmaneuver here it's like imagine Bruce Lee fighting Chuck Norris and they have like a back and forth hand-to-hand encounter but then Bruce Lee pins Chuck Norris but he just decides to like blow himself up with a suicide vest you know it's not really like a skill per se of course Jason wasn't trying to kill dick in this instance but again Grayson isn't going for the kill either in terms of raw fighting prowess I think Nightwing edges Jason out slightly with red hood having a conditional Advantage given the explicit lethal nature of his Loadout in the next year in Detective Comics 838 A high-ranking League of Shadows member named ubu States Nightwing to be a rival to Batman after seeing how effortlessly he laid out a squad of ninjas there have been many ubus with prior holders of the title having fought Batman directly and they should all have a good understanding of the dark Knight's measure throughout the years as Roz himself the organization's leader has fought Batman and has been stated to be his rival many times so by that Nightwing three years after under the Red Hood could defeat that Jason at that time just as swiftly as Batman did in the tail end of that story per this statement in Batgirl 2008 number one Nightwing finds Cassandra all alone in the Batcave and gets suspicious he attacks her where she evades and disarms him but he then says that eventually he will attack her in a way she won't see coming and he'll have her beat later into 2008 Red Robin would have a rematch with Jason where in line with their last encounter Drake real is that he can't take red hood head on he does State though that Nightwing would quote unquote clean his clock Tim Drake being one of the most analytically sound fighters in DC Batman notes in rebirth that he has the best tactical mind of any Protege he's ever worked with and he shares Batman's tendency to analyze and document the abilities of other superheroes he's also a bit of a power scaler himself mentally comparing the skill of Raz Al ghoul to Batman which I mentioned earlier in February of 2009 Nightwing and Cassandra Kane go blow for blow with dick agitated over her plan to assemble his Squad featuring various super villains hoping to make up for the at the time absence of Batman battle for the cowl is probably Nightwing and red Hood's most famous encounter Jason's lost his mind but is still fighting intelligently dick gets electrocuted by one of Batman's capes before the battle Nightwing floors Jason with a punch launches him with a kick followed by another punch Jason retorts with Batarang the face dick breaks Todd's nose with the head butt actually stating that he needs to hold back his anger from that point on he needs Jason kicks him in the face where Jason resorts to blasting Nightwing with fear toxin allowing Todd to get a hit in dick still lands a kick where then Red Hood just says [ __ ] it and blows up the entire Arena hoping to make a getaway the fight leads to atop a moving train dick drop kicks Jason and Jason lands a right hook with Nightwing ending the battle with a well-timed kick he regrets having to put too much power behind it as it leads Jason dangling off the side of a train and letting go a pretty heavy-handed victory for a Nightwing he was holding himself back which is in contrast to Batman in under the Red Hood who felt like he had to go all out too quickly Down Jason so again very impressive he was also wounded before a punch was ever thrown and got the victory while his senses were bombarded by scarecrow's formula which was explicitly stated to disorient him the pair next have a brief encounter in 2009's Batman and Robin number five where dick as Batman was able to get Jason in an arm bar and slam him face first into the floor despite Red Hood having been alerted just prior Grayson's then seen throttling Jason standing over him seemingly gotten the better of him off panel before he gets distracted by Damien's well-being and is laid out by a point-blank shot to the chest again it seems like dick is the better fighter per se but a gun is a gun and Grayson can be tagged in certain situations when his thoughts are elsewhere into the new 52 era dick says he's better than ever after having been Batman for a Time Jason and red hood in the Outlaws is shown defeating Lady Shiva someone who pretty objectively manhandled Batman and Nightwing up to that point however Red Hood himself says it'd be impossible to keep up with Shiva in an outright battle and uses techniques taught to him by Shiva to incapacitate her directly with Bronze Tiger someone pretty objectively less skilled than Shiva stating there are no shortcuts to defeating him leading to Starfire having to save Jason from him this comes across as Jason's Simply Having a kind of kryptonite for Shiva as opposed to being more skilled than her and it wouldn't work against other Fighters it's like when Nick Fury whispered something specific to Thor's character into the god of Thunder's ears to de-power him saying Gore was right to Jane Foster Thor isn't going to do anything same goes for Jason trying these Shiva specific shortcuts against Bronze Tiger or Batman or Nightwing in fact future Tim in one storyline actually had discovered in the future that Jason had a bone spur that never grew right and was able to Target it and down him despite the fact that future Tim outright says that he's simply not as skilled as any of the other Robins so again the same thing applies here to further solidify this Jason himself says issues later that he'd never be able to disarm raws under normal circumstances someone stated to rival Batman in the past but if Jason is more skilled than Shiva who is more skilled than Batman ah this doesn't make any sense it it does however with what's stated in the Shiva battle and my interpretation of said statements it's also funny that Jason needed saving from New 52 Bronze Tiger as that same character was shown getting one shot by midnighter whom Nightwing outmaneuvered around that same time in line with nobu's prior utterance of Nightwing skill in Nightwing number 30 Grayson defeats a going all out Cape Crusader as confirmed by the issues writer so to me the story was Batman and Dick have a fight and Dick wins I wanted it to be I love Dick Grayson I think he could beat Batman in a fair fight but when I say fight I mean a fight where Batman doesn't hold back because if it's just a fight where Batman holds back and Dick wins who cares he doesn't have a victory right so I wanted the fight to be Batman puts his all into it he hits dick with everything he's got and dick gets up and hits him back and so it got bloody and it got bad to me that was Batman showing I know it's a little twisted but to me that was Batman showing him look I respect you enough to fight you like this I'm not gonna hold back I'm not gonna just ask I'm not gonna sort of behalf of who the fighter I am I'm gonna fight you the way I would invite anybody because you're Dick Grayson you can beat me on this level and that's the way I viewed it for as much as you may dislike Tom King you can't deny how integral his authorship is to Batman and DC Comics to this day in Batman and Robin Eternal issues one through three a mildly wounded agent Grayson is pretty much outclassed by new 50s to Cassandra Kane he is however able to read the nature of Reform and that she's holding back Cass and Dick actually have a similar ability to read body language and intent which is very much showcased in the new 52 and rebirth Grayson was actually able to deduce that Batman was Bruce Wayne via noticing shared subtleties between the two in his origin in fact in terms of body language or intense sensing Grayson was actually able to see through clayface's disguise sooner than red hood in 2021 so he'd logically be better than Jason in this capacity in recent years she then encounters Red Hood who is confident he can beat her before being launched with a sidekick he then states he can actually adapt to having his movements read by fighting in a way that not even he himself can predict pretty much the same thing Nightwing said to Cass in 2008 if you remember and slashes her across the chest before going for the kill prior to being snuck up on and overpowered by Grayson dick says that Cass was actually trying to protect Jason and later on notes that Cass never tried to beat either former Robin and was simply testing their characters dick attempted a dialogue and inquire as to why she was holding back whereas Jason went straight for the kill an extension of her intent is shown later when she identifies that Todd thinks with his fists and Grayson with his heart which is consistent with the scenes just prior so essentially Cassandra never tried to beat either of them and was seeing how they'd react to the given situation Jason was fighting to kill Kane in contrast to Grayson whom it would be very out of character for him to even go all out on a little girl he's never met who he can read isn't trying to kill him Cassandra is kind of an outlier anyway in the new 52 bat family as in she has a totally different backstory and history than her post-crisis counterpart and lacks many of her best fees making her essentially a new character until arguably Superman reborn in 2017 words implied many elements of post-crisis merged with the new 52 Across the Universe only three years after Nightwing beat a not holding back Batman and red hood stated that he probably couldn't beat Batman in a fair fight and resorts to using a suit mounted taser to Down The Dark Knight a piece of tech that Nightwing also boasts and is in fact stronger than Batman's own in-suit taser it is worth noting that both Bruce and Jason hold back against one another Todd even mocks Batman for holding back Red Hood however feels the opposite towards Nightwing stating in rebirth that until very recently he to try to kill Grayson where he stands essentially meaning that for most of their encounters Jason's actually fighting harder against Grayson than he would be against Batman who he figures he'd lose to on even ground anyway in event Leviathan number three red hood manages to evade a group of Vigilantes including Green Arrow Damien Wayne and Batman Jason intently narrowly misses shooting Bruce in the head where then after scuffling with Plastic Man Damien rationally pursues Jason directly at the behest of Batman the three tumble into a pool where Jason tags Batman Damien tags Jason Batman text Jason until finally Red Hood appears to cloak the two within Batman's cape and makes his Escape off panel he later manages to deflect a net Arrow onto the dynamic duo and snaring them it's an impressive display of Escape Artistry however I think we can all agree that evading an attacker and actually counter-attacking are two different skill sets just because I can dodge certain attacks does not make me a quote-unquote better fighter especially when Bruce and Damian collectively score more hits against Red Hood than otherwise around this time Rick Grayson is then implanted with a lifetime of Memories by the court of owls granting him a deadlier training than what Batman offered him similar to Jason's training prior to under the Red Hood and is stated to be the greatest Talon of them all logically greater than Lincoln March who was an active Talent around that time and as someone who could physically dominate Bruce Wayne in the early New 52 and as recently as 2020. he'd as well be deadlier than the same Talons who forced Jason to go all out in the new 52. Joker then yet again overwrites Dick's mind in planting new memories and the Persona of icky boy who does battle against pretty much the entire bat family he fights Batgirl who calls him Batman's equal adding to that consistency but notes that his brainwashing has nerfed him allowing her to get some hits in this is evident as punchline Joker's new Lackey was able to incapacitate Barbara fairly quickly but with Nightwing's mind restored he's able to utterly bully punchline he even says to her that as Dickie boy he'd forgotten a lifetime of training before he demolishes her so essentially dicky boy is capable of being tagged by someone below punchline whereas Nightwing proper is in a whole other tier above punchline this is all relevant as oh yeah Dickie boy had a blow for blow fight with red hood in 2020's Red Hood Outlaw number 48 with Jason Shone going for the kill throughout the fight so a heavily nerfed Grayson going equal against Jason means he perform far better against this Killer Instinct Red Hood after having his mind restored in fact Nightwing going forward has all the memories of his various lives including all of the new deadly training afforded to him by the court of owls so essentially Nightwing post Joker War would dominate this 2020 era Red Hood task force Z number six from 2022 shows us Jason and Bruce's latest physical scuffle wherein after being tortured Jason has a punch blocked a kick dodged launched by a strike and finally lands a kick on the world's greatest detective which he just eats before breaking down and mentioning how he knows he'll never miss measure up to Bruce or dick two issues later after Jason is healed up Nightwing is rightly suspicious that Jason stole something says he doesn't want to fight Jason and then eats a cheap shot he then floors a battle-ready red hood with a kick Tim and Cassandra Kane pull up Tim Drake is pretty inconsequential here as I already said Tim knows he can't take Jason Head On And even if he went all out Red Hood would likely still beat him pretty soundly based on that safe to say Cass is holding back as stated in the issue and would Molly [ __ ] Jason otherwise Todd's even afraid of Cass and considers her the toughest among the bat family which makes sense as her post-crisis scaling would be very much restored after death metal which had taken place prior the reason I keep bringing up Cassandra is due to the fact that she's arguably the most skilled fighter in all of DC probably just below her mother Shiva most consistently although that's likely due to the fact that Cass is not a killer Batman and rebirth States he'd straight up lose to Cass which is even evident as far back as her initial appearances in post-crisis the same Batman Jason thinks he'd lose to if she were going all out which is honestly pretty far outside of her character as she actually has to make an effort not to use killing techniques as that's all she was taught as a child it's fair to compare characters performances against the typical restricted casts that would be seen in say that 2008 Batgirl versus Nightwing fight which is why I consider her a valid point of comparison here in fact we know Cass is holding back here which would likely mean she's actually holding back to an even greater degree than she typically is anyway all three bat family members kicked Jason where he seemingly planned to be launched by said kick into one of his cohorts to pass off what he had stolen to her under everyone else's noses dick then tags him in the head with an eskrima Jason knocks the wind out of Tim incapacitates Cassandra via electrocuting water underneath her where then Jason actually says dick and Tim are faster and no weaker than he is stating he'd win simply because he is always more willing to hurt them than vice versa breaking Drake's nose with a crowbar to prove his point Jason evades the holding back Tim and Cassandra he's then tagged by Cass kicks Tim and backhands Nightwing into the path of a moving train Jason saves dick where Nightwing then says thanks sucks about the cheap shot though watching knocking Jason's helmet off something that no other member of the bat family were able to do up until that point in that fight and bloodying his face Jason says he was holding back dick disagrees and offers to untie Jason and actually settle it confident he'd win despite everything Cass with her Advanced body reading ability states that Jason was working to keep the group unbalanced with his taunts and actions remember when I mentioned all the melodrama holding back not holding back stuff throughout this video this issue is that bull to the extreme putting it all together the only thing I can think we can confidently compare is the effects of the sucker punches even if we grant that Jason was holding back dick we know for a fact is and his cheap shot does far more damage compared to Jason's otherwise we have Jason possibly holding back while the same time evidently putting forth more effort as shown when he attacks Tim we also don't know if he's lying about the dick and Tim being faster and just as tough as he is statement Cass is also a pretty sure fire Source when she says Jason's got the crew off their game with his talk no Jutsu so it's also not a good showing of their typical skill on top of them all holding back as a fact I'm really not trying to downplay Red Hood here it's very impressive that he's able to keep up with multiple holding back bat family members at all it's just that this issue is clearly intentionally written in a vague way where you can believe whatever you want at the end of the day is he holding back is he not holding back dick then goes on to train recruits at Titans Academy and as of the latest quote unquote current time DC event dark crisis a heavily wounded Nightwing flat out defeats Deathstroke and what I mean by current time is during task force Z we still see that Batman is around and Alive and Kicking however currently as of dark crisis and the Feats I'm about to mention Batman was seemingly killed by by Pariah and sent to a sort of paradise dream Dimension whatever so all the Feats henceforth are regarding a Nightwing who has been training beyond the task force Z appearance whatever you think of that anyway in dark crisis a heavily wounded Nightwing flat out defeat Deathstroke someone who stalemated Batman in 2020 with the Dark Knight barely edging out Slade in a drag out fight where Deathstroke actually lost on purpose Nightwing took a bomb point blank to the face is clutching his arm and talking wearily and defeats Slade in a single splash page Wilson's even going against his plan to not kill any Titan for the sake of Grayson and he still admits to losing compare this wounded dick to the same wounded Jason who is pretty much outclassed by Batman in task force Z someone who always holds back against Jason Deathstroke and Batman are shown to be in the same tier if not slay Aid being slightly Superior and Grayson who could barely move one this is the absolute latest scaling chain taking all of Nightwing and red Hood's training and character progressions into account Jason was able to get the better of a new 52 Deathstroke in 2016 eight years before this dark crisis feat albeit Slade at the time was nerfed by neurotoxin so it's not really fair to compare even aside from the time discrepancy a lot of people see red hood using guns and killing and assume he'd be a deadlier fighter than Nightwing and therefore win I don't think those people are aware of Grayson's League of Shadows training as a child being taught by someone who could give Batman at the time the smoke as seen in Robin year one or his deadly lifetime of talent training death Strokes in fact called the deadliest and greatest mercenary on Earth many times with Knight Wing having bested Slade on numerous instances Jason was at one time enhanced by the super drug Venom making him faster and stronger however he only had access to the formula for two days before abandoning the drug as it reminded him of his mother's addictive nature even still the best feat Jason has when on Venom is arguably overpowering New 52 Super Girls grip which at its most wanked interpretation doesn't make much sense as Jason Stacy's on the same Venom Bane uses with Bane being demonstrably weaker then kryptonian-tier characters and even still if we're gonna consider Feats that don't make any sense given the wider context and consistency Grayson still has Todd beat as he performed the best up until then against a Batman possessing a measure of Superman's powers who had just one shot Bane in in post-crisis so taking less consistent High tier scaling into account Nightwing is still shown Superior Jason also at one time possessed the all blades a twin set of magic swords however they're stated to only be available to Jason when in the presence of Pure Evil which safe to say will not be effective against Nightwing he also hasn't used them in characters since 2020 favoring a pair of electric crowbars in more recent years there really isn't anything in red Hood's current kit that Nightwing hasn't dealt with plenty he's even stopped using guns as of late all in all Nightwing has a far better win record more impressive scaling and better Feats than Red Hood in a scenario where both parties are on their A-game and giving it their all Nightwing simply shown greater Marshall prowess when comparing his bouts against Batman or other Master assassins when compared to Red Hood's battles against those very same opponents he's beaten Jason many times in the past whereas Todd lacked any kind of concrete Victory against Grayson his greater combat abilities and physical Constitution would lead to a genuine fight between the two two look fairly one-sided in the prodigal son's favor I think Jason's best chance is using the kind of mind games that we saw him using in task 4z however at the same time it's been shown many times that Dick Grayson has knowledge of the weaknesses of many Heroes throughout the DC Universe with villains trying to peer into his brain and steal that information with one of those Heroes shown being Red Hood which it may very well be a similar situation to feature Tim knowing the placement of red Hood's bone spurs and therefore an explicit weakness he could exploit but again this is about if both characters are on their a game and giving it their all and if that's the case I really can't see red hood winning more times than Nightwing to be honest but that's just my opinion thanks for watching and I'll see you all next time [Music]

Channel: CRISIS

Views: 234,556

Keywords: nightwing, red hood, dick grayson, batman, dc comics, gotham, knights, gotham knights ending, gotham knights review, gotham knights gameplay, arkham knight, jason todd, batgirl, robin, talons, harley quinn, the joker, gotham knights walkthrough

Id: JjDB35Fgpcg

Length: 32min 5sec (1925 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 24 2022