Megan thinks that go for the joke rather
than the truth, when I'm in a conversation. -That's because I'm afraid of her.
-Not true. My name's Craig Ferguson. I'm a comedian,
an actor, a writer and a talk show host. I'm also the husband of a beautiful and clever woman called Megan Ferguson. She's my best friend and the love of my life. That doesn't mean we agree on everything.
I wonder if we agree on anything. -It's not like you say...
-Psychopathy. You can say... You don't say, "he's a psychopoth". -13 years ago we started a conversation.
-It's still going. -You're wrong.
-No. Sometimes it stops, you know, for sleeping. In this program we try really hard
to get new perspectives on our discussions. Food is the new internet.
You'll make plenty of money. -The universe is alive within us.
-This is magical. We reach our conclusions by getting
the facts straight from the horse's mouth. By "horse's mouth", I mean experts.
Not an actual horse. Obviously. Do you think we'll have to leave soon? Nah. The kids
don't get up for another half an hour. No, that's not what I mean. I mean,
like Earth, planet. Planet Earth, even. -What the hell would we leave Earth for?
-Well, if humans are destroying it. -At the speed they are... And they are.
-I know. I think we're okay for a while. Yeah, but what about
our grandchildren and great grandchildren? Science will find a way. When I was a kid there were
two great scientists that changed my life. One was Jacques Cousteau.
The other was Carl Sagan. Carl Sagan was the direct mentor
of Neil deGrasse Tyson. So to me, Neil deGrasse Tyson is the great
scientific communicator of this generation. Is there somebody
we could talk to about this? Yeah, I'm almost certain there is. -There's the chicken and the egg.
-That's very important. Especially to me. -You know how I feel about...
-Chickens. You love chickens. Then there's the "I get depressed,
because the universe is so big". -It's so big, and what's our place in it?
-It's too big. I'm not gonna start with the chicken
and the egg. He's a renowned scientist. -You don't start with that. I'm a bit nervous.
-So am I. -Alright, just don't embarrass me.
-Be cool. Neil deGrasse Tyson...
I'm Craig Ferguson. This is my wife Megan. We have some questions
about the nature of the universe. -How much time do you have?
-I don't know. That's one of the questions. Neil deGrasse Tyson is an astrophysicist,
author and science communicator. And man, can he communicate!
It's not just the amazing things he tells you, it's the way he tells them. Hypnotizing. As an intellectual descendant
of the late Carl Sagan, he's the go-to person when you wanna
know more about the universe. Should we boldly go where no man has
gone before and explore new worlds? But maybe we don't have the luxury to
choose. Maybe we have to leave the planet. If so, when should we start packing? -Let's do this.
-Where are we going? Space? We're going to the best approximation
of space that Earth can provide. Welcome. Neil deGrasse Tyson
is a man who is able to inspire people who don't have the technical knowledge
of what he's talking about, but he can fill them
with the awe of the science. That's why it's extremely important to me,
to talk to him. -It has to sound big.
-Bring on the universe. Here's what I know about space: It's big. And it's called space,
because most of it is that. It's like cheese is called cheese
because most of it is cheese. Even when there are tiny holes in it. That's what space is,
except there are tiny, little holes in it. Space is cheese, is what I'm saying. Neil, I always think you must be
like a dermatologist on a golf course. -I have no idea what that means.
-I'll tell you. It's like, everybody comes up and says:
"Mr. deGrasse Tyson. I have a question." Do people do that to you all the time? In the old days,
when they learned I was an astrophysicist, they'd pull out the questions
they'd been harbouring their entire life: Are there aliens? What was around
before the beginning? Is there a God? In that context,
I'm a servant of their curiosity. I'm just feeding them. They're aiming for the
universe, and I happen to be along the way. But lately,
there's enough of a celebrity dimension, so people will ask for a selfie. I feel like I've failed as an educator
every time someone asks me for a selfie, because that meant
I became the destination of their interest. I was originally worried about that,
and then someone explained it to me. The people who just want the selfie never
would have wanted a selfie with a scientist. So that itself is saying something. Here I'm complaining
that they're not asking about the universe, when they never even knew
a scientist before. And if the most they can come up with is to take a picture to show that they met
a scientist, I gotta let that... That opens the door,
and they'll Google you and watch... Do you think
that there's an impending endarkenment? Are people getting a little bit more proud
of their stupidity than they used to be? I wanna say yes, but I don't believe it. Well, then don't. It feels like the answer is yes. But I think what may actually be happening is that the people who say regressive things like, they're sure the Earth is flat... I think what's happened
is that the internet has allowed that person to find every other person in the world,
who thinks the same way. This gives the illusion of affirmation
of some truth, when it's completely false. Pre-internet, these would be
isolated people around the world. So I'm not entirely convinced
that it's on the rise. It's just more organized. But what about... The United States
right now has an administration, which has climate denial as policy. -That seems like an endarkenment to me.
-Yeah. It's like resistance to knowledge.
It's like fake news. What'll happen is, the US will simply fade. We're already fading.
So we'll fade. The fading is not a cliff edge. It's all of a sudden Europe and Asia
have a meeting, and we're not invited. Or they decide on something
that doesn't include us, because we're no longer relevant
to that progress. If you look at the history of things,
the history of thought and innovation, countries, nations and cultures
have risen and fallen. Pivoting
on the enlightenment of their leadership. So it hits Americans hard, those who were around, when we
went to the moon and invented computers. So it hits hard,
but as a scientist I can tell you, that if the US doesn't do it,
other enlightened countries will do it. You could say to Trump,
"You're this, you're that. Get out", but then there are the 60 million people
who voted for him. They're fellow citizens. They voted for their candidate,
so you can get rid of him, but there's still the matter
of the 60 million in the electorate. And so, as an educator, I say to myself:
"I want to educate the public." So that they won't vote in ways
that won't serve their own interest, and vote
in a way that they can think about the future, with the same weight that they think about
the present, because we live through time. Then when you get it, that may deeply
influence who you elect to represent you. How does it leave you personally
at this point? You're quite fearless
in your look at your surroundings. You take a scientific look at your
environment, whether it's in this room... You can call it scientific, which it is,
but I'd also say that it's a childlike view. -Is that what good science is?
-Yes. When you're a kid, between age 0 and 3, their curiosity,
three quarters of the time, will kill them. "What is this ledge on this cliff? What's
the sharp thing you're calling a knife?" -It will kill them. That's how curious they are.
-Right. But at some point, all that's beaten out of us. In school we only think of knowledge. "Let me unzip your head
and pour knowledge in." "Then give it back to me on a test,
and then you've done well." Where's the analysis?
Where's the interpretation? Where's
the interaction with that knowledge? That's the expression of curiosity. If people came out of school curious... Picture this in your head: Last day of school,
senior year of high school. You run down the steps
and throw your notes into the air. School's out forever.
There's a celebration of that, and I ask why? You're only job was to learn, and now you're celebrating not learning. Something's missing
in that educational experience. I wanna see a world where it's the last day
of school, and people are sad, because they don't wanna go
three months without learning. They wanna continue their time in the class. Something has to change with the entire
outlook of how we think about education. Then we'll have curious adults. When
something weird happens on the internet, you'll say:
"I wonder if that's true. Let me check." -That's...
-That's the measure... -You've got to check it.
-That's what I'm saying. What's the manifestation of that?
What's the source? It's the curiosity
you've retained from childhood, that makes you explore what people say,
and how and why they say it. -I love that.
-It's that simple. What skillset do you think children
would need if they have to leave Earth? What skillsets do they already get?
Music lessons. Perfect. When people get to the new planet,
they'll need to be welcomed like it's a hotel. "Welcome to Mars." I don't know if we have to leave the planet. Let's just wait and see a little bit. I'm certainly not leaving today, but if
we as a species have to leave this planet... First of all, shame on us.
Secondly, I don't want to go. In all seriousness, do you think we'll have
to prepare the children to leave this planet? No, we don't have to prepare the kids. Preparing 100 years in advance
for your descendants' space travel, is not preparing. It's control freak. -I can accept that.
-Good. What types of people would go? There are
people who are more open to that stuff. Snowboarders. Snowboarders would go. They're aggressive, knock you over. -"Yeah, I'm really feeling it."
-Out of the halfpipe, on to another planet. "Let's name this planet Awesome." Are you an advocate
that we should go there? Should we be headed into space? Or should we clean up the mess
where we live right now? -Why is it either or? Let's do both.
-That's true. I'm not an either or-guy. The argument that many make is we have to
put our eggs in more than one basket. -So we have to do both?
-So they say. I have a contrarian view. I say do it, but for different reasons.
They want to protect the species. I'm saying,
if you split humanity into two planets, and an asteroid's coming toward one planet, is the other planet gonna say,
"Bye. Nice knowing you"? No, you try to save the planet. I'm saying to you,
whatever it takes to terraform Mars, and ship a billion people there... Whatever effort that is, there's got to be
more effort than deflecting the asteroid. Think about that. And if you have the power
of geoengineering, to turn Mars into Earth, then you have the power
to turn Earth back into Earth. That's what I think. The argument that, let's put other people
on other planets to save our species, I'm just less convinced of that need,
for the reasons given. Let me ask you...
Let's say for the sake of argument that our children will be
the generation that has to depart... -Or their children.
-The Mars generation. What should we be teaching them
to go forth into space? There's nothing you can teach them,
because they'll discover it on their own. We come from a generation that stopped
our frontier of exploration at the moon. We haven't been out of lower Earth's orbit
in 45 years. -What about Voyager?
-I'm talking about me! Of course we send hardware.
Nobody doesn't love Voyager. We love me some Voyager.
Voyager left the solar system. It crossed the boundary
and it's out in interstellar space. It's the farthest hardware
we've ever sent anywhere. More power to it. That's a different exercise. What would happen if Voyager
was found by a species out there? That spacecraft
was designed to be found by aliens. On the cover are pictograms indicating
where our solar system is in the galaxy. Is this wise? Is it wise to let aliens know where we are? For me, the jury is out on that.
I could see it both ways. I think it's great. Let them know. Maybe
they'll come and save us from ourselves. The other side is that
they're gonna come and suck our brains out. They'll completely dominate us.
Something scary and awful. I would ask,
why do you think they'd behave that way? I know why you'd think that. Because we behave that way. We behave that way with our own species. Here's a thought I have.
I lose sleep over this. Suppose there was an alien civilisation that
didn't have our senses, but 5 other senses. What would that civilisation look like? It would have things
that we could not relate to, because our senses have no access to it. Just think about that. That's a stunning fact. What if the funniest thing
for an alien species was hurting us? What if that was like their best joke? Sounds like those Japanese gameshows. People get smacked in the nuts,
and they're all like... And you really don't know what happened. We're not saying
that Japanese people are aliens though. No, I'm just saying that different senses
of humour exist here too. Yeah. Just checking. Such a pain. -What if we were kept as pets?
-By aliens? I'm just saying I have an active imagination. If the aliens make us their pets, then I'm gonna shit everywhere
on that spaceship. Just like the dogs do in our house. I'm gonna look them right in all of their eyes
and take a dump. They'll be like: "What are you doing
on our spaceship? Why?" I'll be like:
"You know why? Where are my treats?" I'm in two minds about aliens. Maybe
they don't care a whit for our social mores. Maybe they're like:
"Move this one out of the way." "Just move it out of the way,
and we'll put some nice shelves up here." If we cultivate and inhabit another planet,
would we become a different species? If you send a colony to another planet
and cut off all contact, then you just diverge. That's why the animals in Australia
are so different. It's indication of how long ago the Australian landmass separated
from the rest of the land in the world. So they just went
on their own evolutionary paths. None of them resemble
anything else in the rest of the world. If we send part of us to Mars
and cut that off, and come back in a million years
we'll be in a different situation. -As another species.
-Basically. Let me ask you this... I've been reading
"Astrophysics for People In a Hurry". Thank you. I've heard of that book! It's a very good book, but here's the thing: You use the word about the probability
of all of this, perhaps being a simulation. It fascinates me,
because I don't understand. It's really easy to understand. This one... I don't know if I should tell you.
You won't be able to sleep. You'll call me and blame me for... I'll be calling, yeah. All right. Here it is. As our computing power grows, our ability
to simulate a world in that computer becomes more and more refined.
That makes sense. Higher computing capacity, calculation
capacity, storage capacity of data... Let's take
the simple video game "Mario". The character runs and jumps. If he comes
off a cliff, he can scurry and come back. If you're in that game and you're a scientist, you'd start decoding the laws of physics
that operate in that world. Now imagine
we program a computer with such power that we give the characters in it
their own sense of free will. Now they'll have scientists, and decode
the laws of physics that are in their world. And they say: "Oh. With these
laws of physics we can invent computers." So they invent a computer
and create a world within their computer. Then it's simulations all the way down. If I now throw a dart,
which universe do I land in? The one genuine universe, or the countless nested universes, that are
simulations within the one that came before. Chances are I'm gonna be in this supply. So if that's the case, who are we to say
that we haven't been completely simulated in some intelligent alien's computer model? Some aliens kid in his parents' basement. Okay... Who are we to say
that we aren't living in a simulation, where we're discovering laws of physics that
this kid programmed billions of years ago? -Is that really what you think?
-I can't exclude that possibility. Doesn't the theory of relativity disprove that? No, no. It's just... It's just in the mix of the laws of physics
created by the kid in the basement. So if the kid puts in E=mc²... There it is. It would account
for why the laws of physics are universal. I can't rule that out. I wish I could, but I can't. I wish that too. I wish you could rule that out. The trouble I have
with astrophysics or quantum mechanics is the same problem I have with philosophy. Which is, initially it's mind blowing. Then it's fascinating. Then it's disturbing.
Then it's almost incomprehensible. Then it's fascinating again.
Then you disappear up your own as. But if you look
at the idea that it's a simulation, there has to be an initial point. -We have to go up to the real universe.
-It's the chicken or the egg. Actually,
we have the chicken and the egg thing done. -I have chickens, so I don't know.
-You own chickens? -I wouldn't have guessed that.
-Really? I love chickens. The egg came first.
It was laid by a bird that wasn't a chicken. I can't think of a world without chickens. I can't believe you brought up
the chicken and the egg thing. "I've got chickens, Neil." "Wonderful.
Chickens are part of the tapestry..." It surprised him. It surprised him that you'd go up to one of
the most prominent astrophysicist and say: "Hi, Neil. I've got chickens." You fool. What was around before the beginning?
We don't know. -But we have top people working on it.
-That's why science isn't a religion. Because you just said: "We don't know." That's the fun part. We've learned,
unlike so many sectors of the world, to love the questions themselves. Therein is the soul of curiosity. Therein is the foundation of wonder.
Without it we're just plodding through life. -I think that's fascinating.
-That's unbelievable. Science is one of those things
that doesn't care if you believe in it. It is. There is some kind of notion that science
is trying to sell you a belief system. It's not selling you a belief system.
Science isn't selling you a belief system. Science is telling you
the perceived truth of the situation. Science literacy is inoculation... ...against those who are full of shit. Right... It's important to always ask questions, but
there's no point in asking the wrong people. Sometimes people think: "That church man
is very wise. I'll ask him about physics." That doesn't make sense.
You don't go to the hardware store for milk. And you don't go
to the theologian for science. I wanted to talk to you briefly about the idea of dealing emotionally
with the study of astrophysics. I know
the tiniest, little amount of astrophysics. -That's messing with you.
-It has an effect. You feel so tiny and insignificant. I'd say that you feel insignificant, because you enter the room
with an unjustifiably high ego to begin with. It's been said that about me before. If instead,
you enter the room with no ego at all, then all this knowledge
is uplifting in the following way. What is ego, if not: "I'm different from you
in this particular way", "and that makes me better." Right. The cosmic perspective
shows that you're the same. We have 40% DNA
identical with a yeast cell. When you realize that,
you come to the conclusion and recognition that we're not separate and distinct
from the biosphere. We're participants
in this great unfolding story of life. Can that itself be uplifting? For me it is,
when I learn that I'm the same as the trees. As the grass. As the other animals in this biosphere held by Earth. I'm not separate and apart from them.
I'm the same. I'm uplifted, because I'm the same. Not because I'm different. The atoms of your body are traceable to stars that manufactured them in the core. In the crucibles of the thermonuclear fusion
inside the cores of stars. And these stars exploded and scattered
these elements across galaxy. Into the next generation gas clouds, that then collapsed
and formed star systems with ingredients that can now make planets. With planets, that now have ingredients
that can make life. We're alive in this universe. And because
our atoms are traceable to the universe, the universe is alive within us. You're special, not because
you're different from the universe. You're special,
because you're the same as the universe. To me, that borders on spiritual. We're not figuratively, but literally, stardust. That's beautiful. Don't you think it was lovely
what Neil said about stardust? Everything around us is energy.
You're energy. I'm energy. If our energy is then put back into
this planet, maybe we're helping it along. You know, when our physical form goes.
What do you think? I think the way I felt right at the beginning. Which is, it'd be very nice
to go and look at other planets and stuff, but we really, really have to fix this one. You're not going anywhere,
until you've tidied your room.
Craig: "We have some questions about the nature of the universe."
Neil: "... How much... How much time do you have?"
Craig: "I don't know, that's one of the questions"
Both: "Ahh! (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞"
What is this on? Just YouTube?
I like smooth conversation. Good episode
Thanks for sharing the video, but dude, his name is right there in the title...
How old is his wife?