Naufel Alhassan | From the Semiconductor Industry to the Prime Minster's Office: Global Leadership

[Music] foreign [Music] how are you good good thank you for coming to our Studios at the ion it's my pleasure absolutely I I this this episode will be a great episode and uh you know I have a lot of questions for you uh are you ready to dive in no sure awesome uh I'll start with a quartz as usual uh quote says the wheel of progress turns with the hands of innovation and the mind of wisdom endocrats are gone of akkad uh uh very famous word in Iraq is shakumaku a lot of people don't know what the origin of it uh so for before how was everything doing good alhamdulillah awesome awesome how's the travels you're traveling around yes yes going back and forth between Houston and Baghdad and and the region over there enjoy it awesome great great so so the origin of the word shakumaku it's actually a Sumerian Origins and you can imagine about 2300 years ago this word was used and still used today we talk about Iraq we're talking about eighth civilization we're talking about uh uh science invention of the letter uh I know Phoenicians will say the alphabet that is correct that the letter was invented in Iraq the wheel and like that battery there's so much history in the region especially Baghdad it is considered the Creator the creator of civilization and the next hour or so we will be talking about uh where Iraq where you come from your journey and then we'll tackle your career so I'll start with the question can you tell us about your life family and the environment where you grow up well I born from a middle class family um originally from South west of Iraq from a city called samawa I born in Baghdad um um but I didn't discover about that just lately you know um because my family had to move um when I was about two three years to the South to an agriculture small city called ashatra it's an so so all my memory on Baghdad it comes later than the early childhood my childhood memories mainly in the South specifically in shatra and then later in Samoa awesome great so you were born in Baghdad but your family moved South yes uh awesome awesome now uh can you talk about when you grow up your education so you started I'm guessing and chatra samawa as part of samawa you started you no no yeah shut around the South yeah okay so can you talk about your education what what are you a member of the South yeah um again in in that City it's agriculture based small City but it's a rich with culture with literatures you can easily see many artists and Poets and um it's a very nice agriculture area but also I spent big time over there in the library closer to my house you know with a lot of books in additional to that we have in our house um a decent Shelfs books and my dad had my dad he was a government employee um he loves reading so um you can see in his bookshelves um books for Karl Marcus and you also see for Muhammad and you can see dial Carnegie you can see al-jawahari and mutinibbi and also you can see Shakespeare T.S Eliot so that variety of of um you know books um in the early childhood brought me to um to create my early values and inspiration there's the old saying that says Cairo writes Beirut Prince and Baghdad reads uh I don't if I recall you were born in early 60s right yes and you know at that time Iraq is considered a beacon and even civilization in education so I want to go back and talk about the library as the you said library was it a public library yeah it's about public library it's behind our house so I'm you know I live in a neighbor's um most of it government employees so it's a little bit separated on the traditional City but you can see on my left hand a very nice um Park kind of a small garden you go there you play and you're right you will see the library so again I had a lot of memories a lot of stories in the library amazing yeah as shatra itself again it's a small City but it has a lot of Dynamics many people resist the previous regimes they expel to the South to that City so you can easily see the debate between islamist communists nationalists and you can go to the cafes where people debate um small bookstores where you they um they sell the the newspapers I remember I was in the fifth or sixth grades where I start subscribing in the newspapers that's amazing so basically the book was your friend yes and and what started it is just the library around the corner and and that library was it a government thing who established the library it is it is the governor it's a government initiative yeah it's a government so it's a um again you know we are talking about small city um where you don't have too much to do it but in that time in the late 60s early 70s where you can find um thousands of titles you know that's that's that's an opportunity I remember there was no internet there was no even the TV in that time we have uh one block and white TV one channel and it's it's a very tough to you know get the signal interesting now uh in the 70s your family moved again to samawa yes in the middle of 70s middle 70s yeah can you talk about moving from City to City I know they're in the same area but there there is a character differences how did that moving shaped the way you think or influenced you if any well our move from Baghdad the capital to shatra um um I didn't notice it too much because it was you know yeah but the other move to samawa it was a turning point for me when we talk about samawa again it it's considered my my family City yeah no my you know grandfather's grandmothers all the rest of the family who immigrants about that you know decades ago but they always consider themselves just like myself always we consider ourselves as a samawa not from about that so in that City that City it's a kind of um ironic in the um the city is um sitting on the Euphrates yeah The Poets say someone sleeps on the Euphrates and yeah and it's a gateway to the desert true so from the left side you can see I mean from the west side it's it's a gate for the you know the largest desert in Iraq you know the um and then it's a gate for you know neighboring to Saudi um in the east side of the city you can easily see the farms you know the palms and there's a famous song about samawa Valley you know the palm of the city of samawa and again in that City also a reflection of what happened in 1970s remember the world in that time you know the Vietnam War just you know ended and also in the region there was an October War there is a an Insider Iraq there was a um a lot of conflicts you know the occurred in the north of Iraq you know arrival against the the regime the central government so there was always fight specifically you know when the attempt for reforming consolation it's it's failed so then the the the war brought every day a new confidence a new a new soldiers killed in that time also the um the the authoritarian regime start crystallizing their power what year we're talking about here um talking about the mid-1970s was the Prime Minister yeah Al Becker was the president in that time but remember Saddam was the vice president second second second but he's you know running the show yeah uh one more thing you know in 1972 the government nationalized the oil 72 72 and then you know the implemented in March 1973 so it's a it's another turning point was this influenced by mosa dap experience of in nationalizing yeah 53 so it's it's almost like a two decades Gap okay but but again the the theme in that time for most of the um military uh COPE in the region um you know try to get nationalism nationalism yeah the problem it's not about nationalizing the oil uh it's nationalizing the economy and also nationalizing education nationalizing the journalists nationalizing the you know the liberal life in Iraq um gradually I mean Iraq in 1950s before the oil become part of uh Iraqi economy um an activists export to you know all the world you know their agriculture products you know their their um uh even here to United States you know Iraq used to export a lot of uh products to UK to Europe to Japan unfortunately when the military coup in 1958 and then the other um you know Administration and co-ops and Military um controlling the the the the the the social life social life and and then um you can easily in the early 1970s even the private school closed oh wow private university is closed I mean some of the Jesuit you know you know Baghdad college or or or or many other good schools in there are private schools you know religious schools they start you know closing down or shutting down why again you know we have a a party who believes uh with the theme that they are the controller of the life of the people of the people and again they get the the oil wealth and also they get the military so what's the rest the rest is the soft uh leverages that people has you know liberal life journalists you know education all these gradually even unions become you know acting for the that part for the main party yeah the past partner I do remember uh when I was in undergrad I worked with a organization that helped refugees settle in and and and and the first time I met an ashorean Iraqi and he invited me to their house so his mom was there to his brother and his dad and they were talking in assurian and I I I told him I almost understand 20 to 30 percent because some of the words resonated with Arabic and uh when I asked him about the experience he lived they talked about they were preventing them from learning the assurian language in school they were forcing everybody to learn just Arabic Arabic yeah and now I do correlate that with the fact that even private schools who produce people like the Hadid were closed down or uh College of Arts uh or where a lot of famous artists who were including uh a friend of mine who actually now lives in La Casa Cindy was in our regards to him he actually draw a big uh still exists today in the 70s I think or 60s a big painting in the School of Art now we do talk about the segment and and the diversity of Baghdad then because a lot of people think only islamists existed even in the South it's it's to me to to say like there was even more you know socialist or or and there was a free debate people like got along yeah of course again I'm talking about you know the society you know Iraqis love debates you know that's that's not my words you know you know even during the Khalifa yeah passes or even before that you know during um Imam Ali's uh you know uh time and even before that but unfortunately um is not lucky to get a fair and Justice ruler or government um so they paid a costly price during their history and Errata blessed with um you know variety of resources unfortunately most of these resources you know went here and there but um rarely focused on building Iraq and Iraqis going back to samawa again I'm talking about uh um you know remember samawa it's you know my house in Samoa in the center of samawa a few yards from Euphrates rivers where we used to swim and you know spend a lot of good time there it's a it's about like a 25 miles away from work from sorry from yeah orok yes yeah um oh and it's a probably 70 miles north of Ur So we are talking about you know the the capitals of Sumerians Acadian and and you know all this Rich civilization in Iraq and you can smell it you can see it it's not only the historical sites but you can see it you can trace it the way how the farmer is doing their you know performing their their daily life yes you can see it in their Customs you can see it in their words just like when you know the words that you mention it so this Rich history um sometimes become a burden and thus we can probably address it when we talk about the you know my later education okay we'll talk about that uh you remind me of the Pope recent visit to uh what was it the the prophet Abraham birthplace yes that's that's where so that's like a 70 mile south of my house it's it's it's it's really amazing to see how many people around the world have some ties to the beginning of civilization or cradle of religions abrahamic religions in the region but um you know going back to um you know transitioning from the 70s to the 80s uh I want to go back and and and and focus on so now you went from high school and samawa and you you moved alone to even more south to Basra can you talk about uh that experience and and how how did you really started chemical engineering in the University of Basra well again my my journey with Basra started you know way before that you know first year I moved to samawa I was in you know and uh eighth grade seventh grade yeah between yeah the summer between seven and eighth grade we had a picnic you know going to um to Basra and alone I explored the city and stick in my mind you know it was again we were talking about mid-1970s there is no war in basaran that time the war up north you know in in the north of Iraq you know but in Basra on that time the only port for Iraq where you can walk on the bank of river of shuttle Arab and easily see you know uh ships and and from all around the world you can see people talking different language you can see from Japan from Brazil from UK from Africa from Europe from all other Arab Nations you can see the products coming from all around the world so that City and again I'm not talking about the history of the Basra Basra it's originated in the first couple decades in the Islam second decade probably in the Islam initiated same time the kufa the recent kufa initiated like I think if I'm not mistaking 13 and 17 hijri um but since that time it become a center of um you know um scholar of thoughts Center of religious leaders Center of poets poets you can see even in the a traditional Arabic grammar there is there is you know all around Arab world there's two schools and Madras al-bas in the school of Basra School of again when you see that City mixed the history and geography you can see the world in that city um I went to Abu khasib in that time it was a jungle of you know um you can see many type of products and fruits we don't usually grow it in Iraq you know bananas and you can see you know too many type of cultural mixed in that City so I visited the uh al-sindibard Island I visited you know many sites in the city mid-1970s and I decided even I was in Middle School I decided my bachelor will be in Basra so you love the city I love it if when I was accepted in Baghdad University I decided to go to muscle then my journey started and again it's when unfortunately you know I'm talking about you know early 1980s where the um Iran Iraq war started so that you know Magic Image I had it in my dream for Basra when I saw it in mid-1970s that you know that image it's totally changed while you were there yes yes during the war started when you when you were there yeah it started a year and a half before I haven't reached about Australia yet so when it reached basala how was your experience um well again you know there's another thing this first time you know living living out of my family uh again exploring the the life of University it was a new Department chemical engineering uh in that time we had a lot of non-iraqis professors so you know the the curriculum in English and and the classes in English um and it's a it's a um a heavy curriculum but we enjoy the life over there however we are just a few miles away from the war from the front lines yeah yes so um that's mixed feeling one from one hand do you look at you think of a bright future ahead of you as a chemical engineer it's a you know for Iraq chemical engineer it's it's a good good career um again you know our country and and we had a lot of Industries in that time so you can you can find um a lot of a lot of area where you can probably um start your career with Innovation with with uh you know with blessing yeah and from the other hand um you know there's a big big uh double mouth so to speak which is the war yeah you have to go to the military after you graduate so it's compulsory it's like you don't have it yes yes it's not an optional so that's the second part of 1980s almost second part I had to spend it in Basra again but in the in the in the military in the military yeah so um talking about the economy uh correct me if I'm wrong although Iraq had a lot of oil and gas and the beginning oil and gas was diverted all of it to a fund that was managed and the economy really relied on non-oiling gas GDP Independence right yes can you talk about how did that work and when was the shift from that balance yeah and again you know Iraq called historically out of the sawad you know the black land you know by Blackland they mean the tar no they mean it's a it's a heavy agriculture area you know people coming from Bedouin from the desert they see you know constrainted uh palm trees to the level they don't see it as a green they see it as a black you know full of blood because of dense dense dense you know dance agriculture area so we are again we are talking about thousands of years hundreds of years where Iraq is a basketful for the for the region um again unfortunately by mid of 50s when the oils start you know bringing more revenue for the government but in that time we had a constitutional Kingdom so they cannot play too much with the fund without the you know without the parliament without the people um you know opinion and we had a we had a decent uh leadership um you know in that time where they decided to create that fund for building Iraq you know reconstruction so the oil fund come mainly to the the oil Revenue come to that fund and that fund you can trace their um achievements even decades after that fund dissolves unfortunately after 1958 there was a military coup and then another military coup in 1963 which was also bloody Karim classum is the first one first one and then second one is party joined together and they they you know they also made a lot of a lot of damage to the society not only killing a lot of people on the element eliminating a lot of oppositions you know include Communists include you know others but after that another COPE in 1968 where the bath party came back again with what they call it white Revolution which is turned to be more bloody than the previous ones um during that movement in 1960s and then 1970s gradually the oil play key role in the GTP and again nationalizing the industry that was in 1964. uh nationalizing the banking system then after that you know when the bath party came back in 1968 another form of nationalizing you know I told you nationalizing education journalists unions liberal life um so the government become taking care of the people so to speak and interfere in their life from the birth to death I remember you know in in you know in University you have to fill a form that form dictates where you're gonna go work and you have to go to a specific work that the government assign it for you um so so it's it's a long story but we end up with turning the promising future for Iraq to a disaster uh I don't know who who said that but they said 1980 1981 was the the the peak of of the Iraqi if you say um social Revolution educational Revolution and then the declining has begun I do remember when I was in college one of my professors Dr candil I was a student at King Fair University of petroleum minerals he said he studied in Iraq and he he he talks about how wonderful it was I have another physics Professor uh I think from Algeria or Morocco he said that his dream was to go to Iraq to study which didn't happen why the education in Iraq was so strong that all the Arabs wanted to study there well again as you can easily say or see the the education system you cannot build it overnight it takes years it takes years and generations sometimes I mean you can start anytime but the real fruit you can Harvest it probably within a couple Generations takes generations to build Scholars to build you know education culture what you see it you mentioned early 1980s that was a fruit of what build late 1940s 50s you know when people like Dr Ali wardi came here to yeah UT access yes yes or doctor father jamali or hundreds of professors Iraqis in medicine in Engineering in management in in in in in finance in you know all physics you know from MIT from Harvard from Yale from you know many other great universities here in U.S and even in UK and other other parts of the world they came back with the you know with the knowledge with the with the next expertise you know all those people help to build that reputation um so the people come again I remember when I was in university you know uh in Basra um it's easily you go to the um you know to the cafe or to the Student Union or you go to the dorm always you can see people from the Gulf you know from Bahrain from Saudi from up to yeah from Morocco from Africa from India from yeah yeah yeah to many people and when we talk about the health system you know you know ironically right now you can see thousands of Iraqis going you know outside of Iraq in the neighbor countries or far to get their health uh services in that time you know Iraqi hospitals attracted um you know patients from all around the region uh if I recall uh to give the universities in Iraqis Justice not only the people who studied there came and built a lot of people who actually studied in Iraq universities have contributed outside one of them is a physics professor and um New York one one comes to mind specifically is Victor farro Gul qasim I think he is graduate to the University of bustler right um I think yeah yeah and then he did he graduated his education in UK and UK then and uh he's considered the the father of oil and gas industry in Norway sure so the the fingerprint of Iraqis you know whether it's an National level International level is obvious uh and and hopefully this comes back uh now going back to education and the point we stopped at so now you finished your education you went to the military the the war is winding down you're about to get a job so you got a job uh can you talk about that job and then in the 1991 there was another another event and you're back into um in the stabilization I guess yeah you know I get a job and um in the ministry of Industry as a production engineer and a cement factory um it was very nice job closer to my house you know almost walking from my house to the walking distance yeah I mean it's a walking distance rarely I use the car but again it's a it's given me that sense of you know settling down after all this move uh get married and I get my uh first uh son and things you know we thought again I I would mention the the the the Iraq Iran War it was destroyed the Iraq economy yeah so everybody thought Iraq is not going to have any War for next 50 years or 100 years it's a big lessons there was a big shock too it is but but unfortunately um against what all what we thought the dictator didn't pay attention to that and didn't learn that lesson so um he made it Kuwait in August early August 1990 and we had you know we had one of the um um dilemma where he destroy our neighbor and also um you know resisting to withdrawal and led to what happened to Iraq destroying all the you know Bridges and infrastructure and you know roads and buildings and hospitals and we had a huge huge problem in that time that led even people who tend not to interfere in politics usually even those people decided to just like you know say it loudly enough is enough yeah and that's what happened when when you know we in um about 14 provinces from 18 a prize against uh you know the regime um early spring 2019-91 which what called antibiot Adar orbania which is you know um thousands of hierarchies you know decided to say their words unfortunately the reaction was from the world was silent and from the regime was tough and rude brutal and he used you know rackets and and and helicopters and to destroy the cities include you know holy shrines and religious sites and um hundreds of thousands of people lost their life and that you know that movement in that moment you know from the beginning of of 1991 to the almost like end of April you know all these four months between the War to elaborate Kuwait um to the Iraqi Uprising against Saddam to the reaction from the government you know putting the shutting down the uprising um the outcome was a mass Graves for thousands and thousands of civilians people who couldn't flee yeah I lost a lot of friends colleagues include you know Brilliance Engineers you know relatives and again you know religious Scholars you know people from Villages all around the Euphrates middle Euphrates area and the South again from Basra to up up north in kirkuk and and so it was people from all over the country all around over the country except couple cities unfortunately again and that I had to kind of mass escaping from Iraq you know you see a couple Millions people left to the border of turkey Iran and we were in the West South so we had to go from the Saudi area where the Coalition forces were forces and I had to to leave the country now before we talk about this segment was this around the time when the marshes when a lot of people had refuge in the marshes and the marshes were wiped out happen you know soon after that you know okay some of the people include myself we had to go you know to leave the cities and I I was separated from you know my family and I'm I didn't see them from the uprising and you know until until 1996. so so this was what year you left the country uh 1991 1991 yeah early 1991 so I tried to go to the marshes area unfortunately the road closed and the you know regime Army was there so some of the people went down to safe one walking yeah walking you can see hundreds of thousands of kids and women's and you know all people in that time it was spring but it was cold in the night and hot in the day anyway so so many of people find their way later in a refugee camps in both sides you know one of them closer to Kuwaiti border and the other one Saudi border that other people lucky people went to also find away through turkey or through Iran and again by end of it we had to leave the country I have to leave it and start another chapter of my life I want to talk about something when you talk about economy and the geopolitics of War what's built in the 30s and 40s that led to the flourishing and 50 60 years basically was torn down in about 10 years and when you tear something down in 10 years you need another 50 to 70s to rebuild giving the fact that there is a stability because without a stable economics economic stability all political stability forget that 70 years from from an Insider who lived through prosperity had a job to see this crumbling down to flee Iraq to how old was your son when you left Iraq three months three months you saw him in 96 and he's six years old six years old there's so many questions around this I want to start with the following what gave you hope to see all of this experience it then come back we'll talk about when you came back and on your journey back then but I want I want to explore three aspects here what kept you positive what what is the work you've done between leaving and and and and returning and how do you hold on to the thought of there's work to be done then I want to go back and build the country with other people just the umbrella of all of this is the thought process the ups and downs the negative and positive that's the human emotions the ocean of issues just I know it's too much to talk about just a thought how how did you explore this well first of all um again um an additional to the set of belief faith we are here not for uh a random Journey I believe you know we are here for a purpose so every single day when I wake up I supposed to have a to-do list I have I supposed to have you know things that I need to accomplish it during that day regardless if I'm in a university or in a working in a government or working in a private sector if I'm acting as a grandfather or as a uh you know um typical citizen every single day I have a purpose for the life when I go through challenges and difficulties my readings to the history supported me when I see how civilization started and grow and come down when I see millions of people around the world not now only but even in the history they went through whatever I feel it's a challenge they might feel more challenged than what I feel and many of them they want to throw it successfully so I truly believe there is a purpose in this life and that what motivate me every single day when I look at those great building damage in Iraq or these Bridges or these you know accumulated layers of civilization stalling or or damaged or destroyed it's a sad and sometimes depression but I also look at it from a different angle okay this is opportunity for us to rebuild it probably better than it was so I keep my motivation I remember you know people exchange a greeting during the read you know the the festival um everybody talk about his personal you know wish um I remember late 1990s in Arizona we had a gathering for salad and everybody come together and everybody say his his you know Wishful you know um again all of it focused on a local things I asked them for allowed yeah wish me wish me the return and I said and some of them they make you know they they laugh at it and they say are you still dreaming you are going back you know you know the grandson of Saddam will stay in the power I tell them just just look at the history you cannot see dictators or um and Justice rollers stay forever okay so the cycle of history in a short in a few words decide reading the cycle of histories motivates people even during their difficult time and gives them hope for better future so so basically you had you had three pillars that that sustained you um to to really think in a positive way which is spirituality self-care and you know those both will affect the body so three pillars right now when do you think about being spared from the the mass Graves um how do you think of this idea you know they found many mass Graves after 2003 yeah uh can you talk about just this notion of you know I could have been there again it's it's it's a sad when I remember you know I'm for example one of my colleagues classmate but he's he's very close friend to me Muhammad razak his uh he's a brilliant young student he finished his bachelor degree with me in chemical engineering then he pursued his nuclear uh degree um they killed him in 1991 in the shrine of Imam Hussein and his family until this moment couldn't find trace's body I have a lot of stories about friends uh you know people who knew them and definitely even more people we don't know them you know some of these Mass graves in a hella area when they discover them and you can see the the remains of two years old five years old seven years old you know very young kids you can see women you can see old people you know with their ideas some of them without IDs and you know between karbala and Jeff between samawa and again this the story of regime you know Massey Graves it's not Anew it's not only in the uh you know Uprising time also it was the main of it but even before that you go to the desert area Salman you can see a lot of Grace for Kurdish people you know who brought them from the north and again I'm talking about women's and kids and and and and old people um so the impression that you an additional to the to this sadness you also feel you are responsible for two things people tend to look at when they see like this they think of Revenge I focus on something else how could we prevent this you know um crimes against the humanity from happening again that is what motivates me um to think of what's the best system that will prevent such a crimes and that system based on my education based on my experience based on what I have seen in the world need to depend on institutions rather than individuals we're we're 2023 we're sitting here in Houston and unfathomable what I hear but because I am from the region I know we heard but when I Was preparing for this I of course I've seen before but when I go to YouTube it is unreal the footage in the video of the stuff that happened in the 80s and the 90s and it is a thank you for sharing Enlighten that because as much I I would like to say we learn from history at least it's our duty to remind people that all of us has a role in contributing to live peacefully together understanding the differences and embracing our differences to advance Humanity so I know it's hard for you to talk about this and I brought you memories from 40 50 years ago but thank you for sharing this now we want to go to a time of of your studies so you came to the U.S you came to Arizona early 90s and you completed your studies uh and chemical engineering majoring in semiconductors and you worked many years for the semiconductor industry can you talk about this period well again it's um it's it's a very interesting again you know escaping Wars and and and survival from Mass Graves then another pleasance and news for me you know my wife and my son rejoined me back um so I can probably um it's difficult for me to you know to be thankful for that grateful for that however working in a semiconductor it's also very interesting um remember we are talking about mid-1990s and you know late 1990s where the technology booming and and um I started as a design engineer for um one of the um world leaders uh subcontractor for the um packaging for the chip for the system that be part of your cell phone remember we are talking about an early generation of cell phone we are talking about almost every microelectronic piece you know your phone your mic microphone your camera your you know your um airplane your car your almost you know every everywhere um then I moved from from being a design engineer you know work a little bit in r d which is another world you know when you go down in the beginning on the Micron level to Nano level and you can see you know kind of cities um designed inside a small little chip or package it's again every day it was a challenge from envisioning what's what's the next and what's the what's the possible difficulties that's going to face people when they use this or that device so you not only design for today child to solve today challenges but also you think of what's tomorrow's challenges I remember late 1990s with studies the roadmap for Semiconductor and that time we're talking about the time from 2016 to 2022 or 24. so it's almost like a quarter Century ahead um I learned a lot and also it's you know because it's an um it's a global company we have most of our factories you know in Asia we have a sites in Europe we have sites here in different areas you know being in contact closer contact in Silicon Valley where I get another certificates and study a signal Integrity specifically um that's amazing you know for me it's a blessing um You Meet A lot of people from all around the world you study there are cultures their needs and also their ambitions their barriers their limitations their constraints their thoughts so it's you know every day I was going to the work I you know expecting and I'm gonna learn in additional to the you know Technologies and and you know technical themes and uh Concepts but also I'm gonna learn more about human that's interesting so so every day was just a new challenge you are looking forward to you know learning something new or a new experience or a new interaction with the with the team now uh I want to go back before we we go to this I want to go back to why semiconductors huh that's a funny story I don't know it's um you know I was planning to go to biomedical engineering okay and then something happened for the last moment and then I turned to semiconductor remember Arizona and that time it's very close to California and a lot of companies start moving from California to Arizona blue chips you know you know all those uh you know Motorola they are Intel they are you know Amcor technology there many many other companies start moving to Arizona and then they decided to establish a program that combine a pro new program focus on semiconductor but it's combining of different you know background like chemical engineering mechanical engineering electrical engineering material Etc so the people who graduate from that master program um they can easily work together with with different type of engineerings or even sales and and you know marketing and so it's it's wide your perspective but on a specific area interesting so people people in that program were all from the US or was like oh yeah most of them from us but some of them from different countries different countries yes okay so so during that time I remember uh late 90s when I my dad is a handyman he's an indicator but he he likes to do things you know at the house or in the farm and he whenever I go buy something he this is what he tells me buy American product like why is like quality it's like it's expensive but it's quality it lasts longer your work in manufacturing I know at that time there was a there was a there was a segment in in the economy where the start of shipping jobs overseas and sourcing Outsourcing uh did you live through this can you talk about it yeah again I don't know if this is something that see see by end of it um if you remember you know China just entered to the um you know World economy yeah late 1980s you know 1990s so that's uh um a great time you know for companies to look at it from economic you know um perspective yeah perspective um it's it's um you know cheap laborers and also they lower the restrictions so it's a kind of version version land and I'm not talking about China only but I'm talking about the you know the general area yeah you know we're talking about South Korea are we talking about Malaysia are we talking about Philippine you know and definitely Singapore and and Taiwan Hong Kong Etc and Japan so so the area was attracting the business not only from us from Europe as well from other parts of the world so so that's the phenomena of Outsourcing probably reach their Peak at least from last century when people anticipating a big problem called Y2K which is you know the beginning of using the computer they put two digits for the year so 88 whatever 70 whatever then comes to 99 okay oops we need four digits so a lot of systems need to be trans fer because after 99 is going to come you know double zero the zero zero yeah so what does that mean 1900 or 2000 so again it's it's a we don't look at it right now in a big deal but in that time kind of panic that's also push a lot of work specifically to India you know for it's companies you know startup companies because governments and and you know private sectors companies that they have a very short deadlines they need to meet it to upgrade their system so again um so from from economic perspective from an urgency perspective from legal slash procedure perspective that help um you know moving the Outsourcing I was again and in my company we I remember we had a uh around 100 250 design engineers and Design Center we ended up to you know down shrinking them to 12. wow yeah I mean many many companies they started to shut down their sites I mean many Industries it's not all in semiconductor yeah many many industries did the same thing many Industries you know went you know some somewhere I mean they usually move here between state to state based on tax and and and privileges and and an initiative that you know competes each state then they they decided to go there well the idea a lot of economists argue is is the efficiency curve and and when the world opens up to other countries it becomes cheaper cheap labor and you know resource allocation becomes key because you know it is cheaper there and this is the the economical model that that companies basically pursue now um something interesting along your journey and mentioning South Korea I one of my first jobs or early jobs I started in Qatar was instead industrial city and this was in 2005. I I do remember working for a Korean company LG engineering construction and my site manager comes to me one day he doesn't speak his English is broken he pick up his shirt and he shows me a bullet and he's like look from the war you know and and I was mesmerized by the work ethics they were kept 4 30 in the morning everybody have to go outside and like train sure and and I'm bringing this idea because there are stories when they talk about the 50s another another site manager ihkam he says I do remember when I was a kid people used to knock in our doors asking for food wow now when you look today at Korea it's totally different country yeah South Korea now you do you did live in in Iraq in an era where Iraq was a different country you want to do the downfall you came to the US with all of this so much noise so much stability you've seen both end of the spectrum can you talk about why did you choose your next career to be uh in a commercial attache and the Iraqi Embassy and how did you start to pursue a career in a situational reform and social economic policy well first of all you know I I think I mentioned you know anybody you need to have a change you can do you can do it in an individual base or you can do it in organization base or institution based um based on my personal experience and also based on reading the you know how how the world developed if we tend to rely on individuals that's unsustainable and many time and efficient for implementing change the other hand if we help building institutions healthy institutions efficient institutions that will make the change more efficient and more sustainable so I decided to study this you know um learning from my experience in a large corporation learning from my experience I mean comparing the education system here and what happened to our education system lately so that pushed me in that direction that's the way you know probably later I read a book for why Nation fails in obviously you know Nation fails because there's a different type of organization institutions some of them exclusive and some of them inclusive so that's again this is a this is one of the motivation to go through this direction and you know studying the management and how the international organizational leaderships you know I also study different cases from a country as being in a Wars in an invasion in a sanctions in a in a situation or even internal conflicts you know we always mentioned in Japan and Germany you you mentioned just mentioned Korea we can mention you know many other countries you know for example Chile I went through a lot of you know internal conflicts and kind of Civil War and Military interference and you know thousands of people lost their life but look at Chile their democratic system now more mature and also their economy and you can go in Europe east Europe after after this shift in yeah late 1990s again the the stories all around the world it tells you you know building healthy efficient institutions that will help more now in terms of my personal move again after 2003 um I wasn't part of you know the the effort to put Saddam down I you know I decided um you know I was you know supporting putting saddam's regime down but I wasn't with you know um with the military interference because the lesson of 1990 or 91 it was always in my mind you know reminded me of how the again the the people lost their faith about the international Health to put Saddam down however the things went um you know Saddam went out of the picture which is great um you know a lot of people like myself were happy that's a damn remote but also we were um you know very concerned about what's the next but we had a kind of difficult time from 2003 to 2007 we were kind of in the middle of Civil War um then um the the I decided in that difficult time to go back to join the effort to settling the Arab and helping them and the Shifting the focus of the people from intangible thing to um you know focusing on education and economy and building themselves bringing their Heritage back as a as a positive contributor to the region and the world um I work a year as advisor for the government and then they asked me to open the commercial attache in Washington um after two decades of closing so I opened with a small team and and and my journey uh about seven eight years um in Washington started there that's amazing uh there is rumors I don't know if they're true or not they say that you have kids in capital hell well accurate is that statement well um during my service as a commercial attache you know my office separate than the embassy I have a separate office um I had a very small Iraqi team unfortunately some of them they don't speak English and and they were not familiar with the you know the system here and I had a lot of ambitious you know Ambitions and try to you know go fast and try to present to Iraq to the you know us companies and U.S people and try to you know make them engage um so I have I don't have budget to hire people the way how I want so I created a small program I have a couple of friends in Washington uh George Washington University Georgetown University you know local universities over there American University in in Washington DC George Mason so then I started hiring um interns and my journey with the interns every semester I you know we select um a few of you know many people apply for that position the good thing you know we we Mentor them in their education but also we help them to you know study the Iraqi problems and try to find a similar um you know cases proposed Solutions and it was it was a very a great opportunity for me as well you know to Mentor those kids um you know I treat them just like my son and you know um but um many of them they graduated and then they start working all around the city so that's that's okay now when we talk about the era after being a commercial attache you've done that for how many years about you from 2008 early 2008 to 2014. August 14th yeah yeah kind of eight years eight years now uh after that you you went back to Iraq and uh you can you talk more about your role as the chief of staff or the Prime Minister uh um Haider labadi and and being a senior advisor for the Prime Minister as well well again I was um you know I was um also very sad when the news came and June 10th of 2014 when the muscle Fall by ISIS Dash and and you know a lot of people like myself anticipated something will happen you know I wrote an article and decided to publish it in the the um State newspaper um for three months before the muscle fall I anticipated three things one of them I said in that time the oil prices like around between 1 30 to 140 one time so um I said be careful you know it's going to be collapse and our economy built on the oil and especially the big part of the budget the mass majority of the budget came from the oil so we're gonna be in a very very difficult situation so don't plan for um kind of ambitious budget and as always I'm pushing toward diversifying the economy the other thing I anticipated which is happen two three months after that article um I said I can easily see there is a geopoliticals vacuum and things happen and a lot of attempting might try to remove borders and things in again the problem happened in in muscle fall it's not an isolated Event Event things happen probably six or seven months or even a year before that you know when some of those jihadist groups you know turn from Al-Qaeda to the dollar islami and then you know it's it's you can watch it you can watch you can watch the movie you know the move and you can blink the puzzles pieces together and you can you can see the shape a lot of people they try they tend not to see the big picture and they might lose that focus and and then they become you know um shocked when something happened although it's it's it's still you know a city um um a very large city like mosul um you know fall in in a couple days um it's it's a very sad event um then there's a decision to shift in the leadership after the election so the nominated prime minister in that time Dr Haider ibadi sent me a message and asked me to join his team um in that time I was in Rockville Hospital you know expecting you know a new baby with my wife and so I I asked him can I come like three four more weeks from now he said no no I need you now so I had to leave um I went back there um this was after the fall of mosul yes it's two months after fall of the Muslim uh you know third week of August you know second third week of August when they nominated them so I went there helped him and you know other other team to put a new government and then started my journey over there um a diabetes government face not only the military challenges and security challenges where a lot of you know car bombs in Baghdad and many other cities you know the level of the um sectarianism escalated you know because remember the the theme that Isis daesh um against Shia genes you know even sunnis who are not aligned to their set mentality mentality or set of belief um so there's a there's a a lot of challenges the other challenges is uh the economic crisis you know the oil prices went down to the level we don't have enough money to not only to uh to operate the war but also to the level we cannot pay the salaries of our soldiers or Fighters include the volunteers uh and even uh you know to add salt to the injury so to speak um the previous government had thousands of projects ambitious plans to you know we had to stop all these projects so remember there is a lot of depreciation in the in the projects when you stop that sure so but you have to get make a decision I mean you don't have resources for that and then you have to go work with the international Partners like the World Bank IMF and others uh you know it's not only donors but also you need them to stand with Iraq during the war we help building the Coalition and people trust the new leadership for Iraq and then try to also stand with the Iraq because the the danger of daesh was not only for Iraq or Iraqis it's also for the region but also for the world um other challenge that you know our government face in that time faced was the the Integrity of the country was certain yeah you know when when Dash went to the mosul and went to area closer to kirkuk closer to erbil closer you know to the uh north of Iraq the Kurdistan Iraqi Kurdistan region um there was a gradually there was a there was a um attempt you know manifestated later which is for a referendum as a first step for separation for independent Kurdistan as a different state you remember that era yeah so so all these challenges it's it's a it's a it's not a small tactic challenges it's a catastrophe yeah so you have the economy you have Isis you have this separation and you have the societies I remember Spiker happened I remember Mass Graves Mastery I mean how do you remember this time and what was your interaction I know Dr Hyderabad you have a book I do Glimpse some of it and he talks about President Obama told him it was hard for him to to convince that Administration to support what she did later on but because you know there was the the the the the the 91 War there was the 2003 war and and he was trying to get out of Iraq can you talk about that Tom how did you all convince the International Community to collaborate because this was an international threat well first of all some of the you know the claims that the International Community thought about it some of it it's not real and some of it is true I mean when they talk about the inefficiency for spending the money in Iraq that's true we had a um a very very large problem of corruption so when you have a team that have a form and agenda to fight the corruption using the international expertise using the international um forensic investigators you know we told them okay we have a problem you can blame from now until whenever it's not going to solve the problem we recognize the problem if you are serious about Iraq you know go go and I mean come and help us let's work together to solve the problem when we talk about daesh we have not have a short in Fighters you know um old people young people from villages in bastrana you know all around Iraq you know Baghdad all of them volunteer to fight to the level we cannot you know we cannot handle the level of volunteers but also we don't have um you know enough weapons we don't have enough training we don't have know-how you know there was a lot of shortages in the military system remember um a burgades collapse in a few hours and many of them they left their weapons and so so it's it's a it's a big challenges but when you talk to the world with open heart and open mind and a clear agenda we told them this is our war we're gonna fight it if you come to us you will help us and reduce the Bloods and reduce the time that we're gonna put it in this war that's one second if we lose in this war this will become a larger issue for us it's going to be a larger issue um I remember before I go to Iraq like a month after muscle fall I was in Washington and one time in The Institute of the war and they had a forum and people talking about how could we live with ISIS some of them talking about the money exchange with them some of them border and some of them even talk how far Dash will go if they took Iraq and turkey and whatever so where are they going to stop in Europe they're talking about something like a a new wave that will take all the Islamic War so people think that way you know even generals talk about this war is going to last for 30 years we put a plan this war need to be down in next to three years during our time and they were talking about containing Isis we talk about eliminating daesh or Isis um again with with a clear plan Clear Vision and commitment we convince the world leaders and we are you know we are proud that we you know accomplish our mission uh that save millions of Iraqis and others so uh coming out of this uh the impossible mission as Dr abadi calls it to be in the head of the economic reform unit eru in the prime minister's office you played a significant role in in designing and implementing government economic reform agenda where you can see the fruits today and the big projects in Baghdad in Iraq in general can you tell us some of the initiatives that you guys worked on that had an impact in the economic Iraq economy well um while we're working during the war in a fire fighting mode in a crisis mode people you know work as a Survivor just try to survive nonetheless in that time we decided okay let's think of in parallel let's think of the day after when the war is going to be settled what kind of challenges we're going to face so we started you know putting the um Vision 2030 we start to put a project aim to create a real jobs we have you know our calculation that time half an alien young people every year joined to join the job markets include graduated people and graduated people half a million you cannot absorb them in a traditional way as a government employee the way how you know um governments tend to do it as an easy way in the other hand the private sector has their own um structural problems the government doesn't work with the private sector the way how it should be so we need to have a reform plan what's the aim of that plan you know I'm diversifying our economies who um you know getting a little bit out of the dependent heavy dependency on the on the oil also the um the uh the administration itself you know the the the the um the bureaucracy of the Iraqi state some of it it's act um under ottman Empire um codes and and some of it from most of the codes inherited from the previous regime where the kind of social system um so we need to to think seriously of reforming the administration and administrative system um and also we have something that we need to do it today before tomorrow it's not just only strategic thing which is how could we address the the basic necessities and needs that the Iraqis wanted you know the basic service electricity you know um you know food um water Education Health Etc um and we started one of the program that we started also streamlining the procedures you know starting from the um annual report the World Bank used to put for ease of doing business reports so we start you know um reforming the company registration reforming the um you know getting license and and some other stuff so it was an ambitious projects include 50 plus uh you know uh piece your involvement in committees such as the National Security Council energy committee and restructuring and investment committee highlights the breadth of your involvement how did these diverse roles contribute to your understanding of the Iraqi socioeconomic landscape that's a good question um always attending the high-level committees and meetings and be involved in a decision-making Circle in a high level always it's important however I do think I gain more from my engagement with the Grassroots continuous you know communication keeping the channels open as possible with the Grassroots with the different communities with the different you know ages different background different with the variety of of stakeholders again especially with the um you know large growing Young Generation Generations that will help me a lot in term of the understanding the landscape of the Iraqi society and being connected to the people of course unfortunately you know the the um those leaderships who disengage with the realities with the Grassroots tend to make silly mistakes and and sometimes uh brutal mistakes um um so specifically for for a community complicated you know Society like Iraq who just came out of war after war after war from a con you know internal conflicts sanctions um you know where you know this type of society is usually had a you know even psychological uh impact after getting out of wars and Trauma trauma um sometimes even don't you know when you get out of dictatorship to you know um Freedom sometimes you face chaos yeah um where the constant trains where the limits is vague and understandable so so this complexity require not only sitting in a closed rooms and bringing the theories the best you know um theoretical approaches and aiming things will go through smoothly you remind me of an interview I've seen recently uh I love poets and I think poetry should be everywhere even in politics he was talking about you know he had humble beginnings and his poetry was very influential because he used to work in in a coffee shop and every time friends come and talk about their stories he will just like repeat a poet for them and he established connection with different parts of society that his poetry became so influential because he was in touch by basically serving people tea sure and it does make a difference when you know there's a famous saying uh for Imam Ali that says treat your kids with their generation and it is very important which you mentioned because there was an ERA in the last 10 years and and their IQ politics where being out of touch has created a lot of problems for for policy makers and this goes even in in other countries not only in in Iraq and this brings me to a point about our artificial intelligence yeah this is like uh we can see the effect of AI and a mass scale today in Silicon Valley and many layoffs even are contributed to the forecast of the effects of AI where even Diagnostic and in healthcare will be replacing you know average doctors or or robotics with the AI or marketing or tax or taxation within within accounting or there is so many stuff going on how do you envision since you've been in technology and and and Google CEO contribute this as the largest disruptor in humanity after the invention of Fire big words coming from Tech leaders how do you envision this affecting the region and Mina region and maybe Iraq specifically well before we go to that I'll try to you know um you know in order for us to to look at the future we need to go back a little bit in the history you know um when you need to move your hand up front you need to as you know as high you need to bring it back then you move it up front uh if you look at you know a couple thousand years when when people in closer to the city where I grown um invaded the the wheel I think it's it's a it's a it's a big revolution when you have a tool that will help you know that wheel you know um you know it's it's amazing you know tension um when people start writing capturing the knowledge in the words when people start even few hundred years ago the Press okay so start you know those book written by hand now to be you know published in a mass production yeah so the knowledge went right and left and that's a real real Revolution yeah and then when you go to the industry Revolution so until a time where I mean I I you know I born after they discovered the TV or the radio or the airplane but in my time I noticed when people start using computer when the internet came in so it was a real Revolution you know it just imagine what's the impact of this technology called the internet and the computer linked to the internet on daily transaction if you can look at the percentage of the electronic transaction all around the world compared to the traditional transaction I mean you can you can tell where we are now so when we talk about AI it's going to be another Revolution it's going to be another Turning Point however every one of these revolutions or Turning Point human being had in that time you can easily see or distinguish between two type of people one of them exaggerates how this important and Game Changer in the other hand you can see easily people they try to put doubt even conspiracy theory how bad this new technology technology will impact the people so this is something we have seen it all all over and over what's specific now couple things I mean remember all these Technologies aimed to help Humanity Humanity I don't think even AI is going to be to destroy Humanity unless the human tried to use it I mean every tool has a good and a bad use yeah sure but I don't see the what happened in irobot's movie or or the story but I see something a little bit different again there are area not only in the brain of of a human being but as a human being overall as an entity Always There are a none in it um okay so we'll see human will be up to the challenge are to operate that new Revolution hopefully to the human benefits so I'm a big believer on human um doesn't mean we need to just you know take a rest and lay down and and things business as usual no it's not going to be business as usual it's going to be a real challenge for us to keep up just like it's a challenge for somebody um doesn't know how to read and write to read or somebody doesn't know how to use the computer or or or the internet to learn it it's a challenge in the beginning and then it's become an easy now the most important thing and that's what you know we need to take advantage of yeah um there there are a lot of needs for human some of it it's gonna stay as long as a human alive regardless of the shape of the civilization we live in it regardless of the constraint that we face I'm hoping the corporations governments you know different type of world organization get together to invest in AI to direct it in a positive way last month there was a lot of talk about tech leaders in the US coming together to kind of put a frame into this industry which aligns with the with what you just said I want to mention something about when you said humans are humans if you still use something that we all use as one of the wonders of the world is hanging gardens of Babylon and a lot of people say was built of clay how did he build Gardens on top and a lot of people don't understand that oil used to be oozing out of the ground and what he did he took the asphalt and he painted the the elevation and this is why when they put the irrigation system water did not go through the walls that technology is still used today and homes in Iraq and even in Saudi and the gulf to to basically prevent it rains so that the water doesn't go through so stuff like this will be used but without AI we wouldn't have the MRNA for the vaccine for Corona AI accelerated the process so this will change certain industry and aspects of life and and I think the people who will not join the race will be illiterates basically in the new world but we'll go move to the next point which is I don't know if I'm pronouncing it correct so the heel project for job creation and vocational training aimed at facilitating weapons reduction in Iraq Society stands out as an important initiative can you can you share with us more about the project again that was one of the projects that ER you work on it you know I remember early in 2016. again we were in the Pico of the war um we started liberating couple cities but we still have a long way to go to finish you know elaborating all the cities and Villages that Isis took from from from Iraq um one of the things that as I mentioned we we envision it's going to be a problem I remember I you know met with um representative from donors and and international um communities organizations include you know EU usaids you know Japan and couple other donors from the G7 and that time we were you know um we have they they focus mainly on the so so-called liberated area you know when we elaborate area there's a urgent need for um you know humanity and also there's a couple other projects to bring refugees back to their home so in parallel of that I started that approach project I led this project called heal I make it more comprehensive I I was you know debating with the people uh from the International Community I told them definitely we all need to focus on liberated area but don't limit it to liberated area you know what is the big danger will happen after we elaborate this area the other the rest of the area where the people who came to library this area so I use the the term so those fighters who came from a villages in Basra or samawa or emara or diwania or hello whatever could not Jeff karbala and and and dialla you know other other area those people in the South where they have you know the resources the oil and they are busy right now fighting what will happen tomorrow when the fight will be down they're gonna come back with a lot of Martyrs and a lot of injured people disabled people and they're gonna see this you know lack of providing service the weaknesses of the the state providing their necessities and Iraq is not a poor country so I in that time I envisioned something will happen if the government cannot keep up with the challenge the first thing they're gonna do they cannot prize they they get a protest and we will need to face then or you know our own people who who by chance you know they all have you know uh arms you know the society by by you know by by Nature they have a lot of you know weapons in their Villages and their tribes and so this is you know the the the um Society full of weapon came out of a war internal external Wars uh with uh you know unhealed wounded the the project in the beginning they said okay we're gonna give them money they're gonna give us the the weapon well done we're gonna do like a Colombia projects or DDR or whatever some some other projects I do remember that actually yeah so so so one of the things I said no let's go to the you know two steps back our problem not only with the weapon itself it's a problem it's a big problem but our problem got two steps back we have a weak State we have a weak institution we have a corruption we have a failure of delivering the Necessities for the people and then you just take the weapon you take it from this hand they're gonna bring another weapon in the other hand so and then we're debating okay what's what's the real solution we you know visiting Germany and Japan and couple you know many other countries meeting with their people and meeting with the you know uh experts from all around the world or you know I focus on the um you know vocational training to create sustainable jobs out of the government you know out of the job government a real job like initiating the smes you know small medium Enterprise moving toward um vibrating the economy rather than just like rely on the government paycheck and so this program it's an ambitious program and the good news you know we get a lot of support from the world was that the same program you went to Japan for yes yes exactly yeah you know um can you talk about that um experience sure you know the program we planned for this program more than two years it's brought like a lot of entities from the Iraqi government private sector ngos internally and externally and Japan took initiative to work with us on this program and um so the the goal of this program to create a hundred thousands jobs for 12 years starting from Fall 2018 until 2030. um we went to Japan and we signed the um you know the documents and um memorandum of understanding yeah with the with the Japan government and 45 countries attended this include the G20 include you know a lot of you know Partners in the alliance against daesh you know those comp countries and the organizations include the World Bank IMF EU um you and uh Development Fund development program um undp and others you know sign you know this paper and again it's a it's a fully supported by by the uh by these countries and Japan took the initiative on that um we were in Japan and and the Prime Minister abadi and prime minister Abby in that time um you know sign and we were attended the conference um in the night of that conference you know we met with Dr ibadi met with with uh um uh CEOs and representative of many companies you know from Japan include you know very large corporation and some of them they interested in opening sites in Iraq assembly lines include Toyota in that time it's a it's it's a you know the Hope was very high and again it was a promising project and now um when you talk about a project like this the planning and everything goes into it uh this was in the last two years of you being in the office right yes uh the continuity of project is very important too uh so hopefully this project will you know see see more progress in the ground now moving to my next Point uh I'll start with the quote uh May our cities be like Gardens flourishing with beauty culture and harmony so my question is you've also been involved in writing the Iraq Vision 2030 and development strategy what were the key objectives of this vision and how do you envision its impact in Iraqi future I I wanna try to talk about economies of scale here as you see there's other countries in the region that has the same similar Vision um we see for example on Saudi Saudi Vision 2030 is less by zyness big impact on the ground and you see the whole region probably will will go to different dimensions you see effects in Iraq too so can you talk about why it is important to look at Iraq as an enabler and the region for economies of scale that could connect the region as a whole because Iraq falls in the middle well that's a good question um again I'm going to start with you know what was our vision you know the Iraqi vision for 23rd the 2030 it's a has similarity with the other Vision you mentioned in the region but also it has the uniqueness you know it's designed for for Iraq understanding the realities in Iraq and shortcomings and the difficulties challenges um if I can if I can say the the the um the base for that vision is to shift the paradigm of the definition of State roles you know Iraqi States again although as a shape changed after 2003 different than the state that started you know a century ago and specifically last 35 years before 2003 where the bad part you came and social system you know abused the the economy abuse the education abuse you know all the society unfortunately you know those 20 years it was full of uh everything other than the building the state Foundation so the Paradigm that we were try to focus on it it's Shifting the the purpose of a state from uh controlling the citizens to a state servant to the citizen uh the economy from economy heavily depend on one commodity fluctuated in the price and you are under the mercy of the market mercy of uncontrollable factors to a commodity to diversify economy you know in Iraq we don't need to talk about you know the opportunities in Iraq again agriculture industry and tourism you know Iraq is a site for almost many religions you know you know in Iraq um if if uh you know if we put the Train on the track we get that direction I think we don't have shortage in the resources Human Resources you know natural resources the location of Iraq you know geopolitics could help Iraq rather than become the you know the the core of the unstable um by end of it the the Vision itself aim to transform Iraq Iraqi Society to a healthy Society uh in a different you know using different uh approaches and paths you know in education and health and economy you know even using our energy you know in a sustainable way um for your question you know how could we connect with the other area how could we bring the area together that's that's my belief you know again I always believe um having a unique country in our region in a bad region in unstable region it's not a sustainable model you gotta spend a lot of a lot of on the security if if you have a very nice palace surrounding in a very poor neighbors yeah or or any stable neighbors okay but if you have all the neighbor working together good then you can you can and again you know learning from my experience in semiconductor dealing with the for example the South Asian sometimes you know you're if you pick your phone very difficult for you to see who manufacture or who who gets you know participate to bring you that peace you can you can see six seven sometimes ten or or even 15 countries factories in different countries in the same area Okay um so so rise one country uh alone it's not sustainable but you know having uh Iraqi Vision connected with the other area again not only from opportunity uh itself but also from threats yeah I'm talking I'm not only talking about radical people like daesh or other group that threat entire the region but also I'm talking about for example the foreign climate change climate change you know food security you know many other things that if we share it wisely we can grow together if we disconnect we're gonna pay you know heavily prices and the good news again you know the the bad news the reason you know spend a lot of from their resources for the last few decades you know fighting each other or you know trying to put each other down now I think it's the time also it's late but never late it's it's time to work together to um you know Embrace and and and and and support each other um to get to a stable um fruitful productive societies well some some people look at Iraq as the east gate to to to Iran and others look at it as a bridge or being transformed to a bridge which is I think I believe the case uh moving forward economically and Security in the region can you comment on what is the role of Iraq in facilitating this and why Iraq is have an important role to play in the future you remind me on um a group team that initiated in American University in Cairo a couple years ago we put try to put a report to Envision the future of the Arab region for the next decade I've heard from couple you know individuals talking about the traditional approach the Iraq meaning is the Eastern Gate for the uh for the Arab Nation I presented you know different approach and I said okay enough for being you know gate and we suffer eight years from the war against Iran we had a lot of problem you know with with turkey you know and same thing you know and probably other area but um our new approach for new Iraq is Bridge not gate so being a bridge meaning you cannot put a bridge in any stable area when I stay you know not only from geological uh you know perspective you need to have a stable you know land to put the bridge and also you need to have a skewer area to have the bridge um by end of it willing or unwilling you know the East Asia and West Africa they're gonna cooperate and also they're going to cooperate with the rest of Asia same thing you know the Gulf area they're gonna connect it with Europe or connect with all these you know goes through Iraq so Iraq could play a positive role rather than the traditional role that the previous regime tried to do it you know fighting you know RF you know left and right and and south and north we can play that role but the most important thing I cannot see um era going back to its you know a real potential role unless we um you know we accomplish our internal um Harmony Harmony and and Reconciliation and and building you know you can be mediator for others but if you don't have a stable house I mean it's worthless sure yeah now every one of us has an internal conflict when it comes to cross borders cross culture cross-language across experiences and you have many you live in different countries you've traveled a lot you had a lot of conflicts along the way in challenges uh when you go to Iraq you are the guy who you know spent a lot of time in the US and decaded in the US and sometimes you have a difficult time to connect and convince people to do certain things and when you come here you are the Iraqi who is in the US and you have your own challenges within within you can you talk about that well again you know moving from City to City from state to state from um you know different part of the world to the others has its own you know pros and cons I mean from one hand um again I'm I'm grateful and thankful that I had the opportunities to you know study and learn um you know in in different countries and also had the pleasure and and a great opportunity to meet with different people from different um ethnicity background from different religions from different um you know you know diverse work and learn from them exchange experience um and and explore the The Human Experience experience however there are a lot of challenges you know again let's let's be honest you know the the U.S image in that part of the world it's not reflecting always the realities sometimes exaggerating positively and sometimes exaggerating negatively so when you go there some I mean that's what happened in Iraq after 2003. people think you know this is the Giant in the world this is you know they can have that magic button they can push it and then they can turn the electricity they can solve the problem they can this is not true okay um but again on the other hand you know people look at it as a you know great Satan or or it's a big devil or by the end of it you know ideology is conflicts and um and interest conflicts it's always there all around the world the good how could we manage through these differences and create models that um bring benefits for both parties for both Nations for both communities and I'm always always I can find similarities and I can find an area that bring a win-win for both sides but its challenges and so see you worked uh you're a fellow at the Middle East Institute correct yes so visiting visiting fellow and could you talk about some of the writings and and what's your message you want to aim to convey to the audience well again uh since I left the um the government jobs I took time off and then Corona came and saw I had a couple research projects um so I try to um bring the you know the the Elevate the awareness in both parts you know in Washington area and in Iraq and the region um addressing couple issues and again um people seen me raising the flag many times you know anticipating problems could happen and then unfortunately it happened the way how I anticipated or I Envision it which is very sad I mean when you see something you envision it and there is no action and then it happened same be careful don't be in trap and then oops you are in the Trap okay and then you repeat the second day and third day and that's it that's unpleasant but in my articles I had a project and that projects to focus on the institutional reform in Iraq um again the the the the the image it's not um totally pessimistic although it has a lot of challenges um so a lot of people talk about you know constitutional reform or revolutionary or changing you know Shifting the game um I can see the needs for a a deep change but I can see also areas that um that Iraqis could work on it today easily than tomorrow so if they delay it so I focus for example on the because again my my area of focus it's how could we get a healthy economy diverse economy how we create the jobs for Iraqis but I cannot see any reform in education in economy and health and in society without political change political reform on the other hand I cannot see political reform without reforming the party system so so one of the papers devoted on that I have a couple other papers you know about administrative reform and again it's it's went deeply to the level in my become um separately a book by itself you know not a small paper um in additional to that we participated in couple events and forums is there any uh I know you've interacted with many think tanks and and so forth is there any connection between think tanks here in the US and anything tank in Iraq well um the concept of think tank is not new in Europe also for last 10 years there's a growing number of think tank in Baghdad and yes and it wasn't an active the way how they are right now recently you can probably if you watch the news over there always there is a forum and there's a leaders coming you know the typical you know the government include the Prime Minister himself you know the ministers the uh you know people from Academia and now a lot of you know uh Scholars and and and and and and fellow researchers from us from Europe from the region you know special comes from the Gulf from Iran from Turkey from you know Egypt come to verdad and vice versa you know I participated in many events in the region so I can see more more which is very positive you know again remember you know all these activities it bring can bring an environment create an environment that Foster and and help and and and and and enable not only the Scholars themselves or researcher but also sometimes enable the officials and former officials to speak and think out of their small little boxes so you create a lot of solution but again it's a you know as as always you know talk work in a progress work in progress and always dialogue better than fighting fighter uh I have a couple more questions to cover so I'm going to move fast and a couple questions one very important crucial Point uh that I want to talk about or cover is the reverse of this is a quote last quote I promise the beginning of the quote is the rivers of Mesopotamia bless us with abundance and it is our duty to protect and preserve them this is almost 2500 years old quote by telgath pilsar III prime minister recently commented on Iraq needs an international help for the decline declining levels and digital level for art yes can you comment on that and what what do you envision a solution as to to me a conversation with turkey could solve the issue but maybe you can expand on that I know it sounds simple but but you probably you know well again I'm not a specialist in the you know in the irrigation system or in the Water by itself but um you know I'm I studied a lot you know the remember the role of the al-farat and digital in Iraq it's uh you know it's equal equal Iraq when you say Iraq meaning you know uh the the the country between those two reverse okay or they call Item the the you know two rivers servers country so it's it's essential part of our culture our mindset our life unfortunately you know the the with all this environmental you know climate change and also with um a low level of water management and agriculture norms and and practices and many areas they still use the the way of irrigation that we use this five or six thousand years ago which is again it's um it's not uh efficient uh obviously however an additional to the reforms that need to be done inside Iraq but also you know having too many dams in Turkey in Turkey specifically and even in Iran but mainly in turkey and probably in Syria probably on them but mainly in Turkey it it should be um a big flag that Iraqi officials need to address it and that's what happened during our you know Administration and I think there are a lot of attempts in the next you know previous uh you know administrations those who came after us and even the administration before us but but I don't see um the level of opening the banadora box just open it don't you know my Approach if you have a problem like this you don't leave it just go open it and open it in a healthy way I read the report this morning early you know I'm talking about 20 plus probably I'm not quite sure of the number billion dollars you know exchange between Iraq and turkey and same thing with Iran and we have a lot of you know Exchange Trade exchange with Syria as well but if we talk about turkey um I was planning you know and and I think others also a thought about you know having a project inside era include you know in the South specifically in the South where we have a lot of water shortage um also we start now having the shortage all around their lap um you know that concept of bringing together investors from Turkey to Leicester from Turkey from golf from Iran from you know from the region but specifically those who has um you know interest to keep the water flooding that's very very interesting yes you know I propose that almost a decade ago and I said unless they have interest with interest in it then we can probably take an incentive right now it's it's a kind of love from one side yeah it's not going to work I mean when you look at the trade balance turkey is the single largest trade partner with with Iraq I'm not mistaken care of me if I'm wrong right yeah again they they if if they are they are largest but even if they are not larger the largest but they have a big portion again I'm talking about you know uh double digits billions of dollars so uh so Iraq has a lot of cards could play it if the decision maker try to uh we have a couple of questions but let's move fast because I have one more question to ask before we close uh looking ahead what are your aspirations for the future both personally and professionally are there any specific goals or projects you're excited to pursue well um I'm I'm a busy man always you know if not writing reading and also interacting with people but also you know being in and creating my you know founding the the the ECG Euphrates uh Consultant Group um had a couple of projects now working with the you know uh different uh partners and digital transformation technology transfer and also um um the key Concept in my mind is how could we create better life for typical Iraqis and others you know the young the young people how could we help them to find their themselves in the in the in this you know um a crazy world where you know things moving too fast and also where the the the technology you cannot keep up with so how could we teach them um new skills that will enable them to go through a challenging world um also in a personal level I have a couple two books and completed books require you know editing then try to you know to publish them so in a business level I'm too busy in a academic and and research level also and always as always enjoying you know having a large family and you know playing good time with my grandkids with my kids and and splitting my time between you know us and Iraq and the region and and always look uh to the Future in an optimistic Optimist way yeah that's awesome uh before the identity Capital question I'll I know I I know I thought I said I thought I said that was the last score but there was another quote knowledge is the greatest structure one can possess seek it relentlessly and share it generously and the quote enki I can't believe this like two thousand three thousand years old uh so the identity account question is if time goes back uh with all the knowledge you have today uh what would you tell your younger self or tell the Young Generation lessons you learned through experience not read from books the life is too short we shouldn't waste it in a conflict about illusions I feel if I need to reprioritize the goals if I go back like 40 years or 50 years with this knowledge and experience and you know visiting um tons of countries and states and meeting with leadership all around the world politicians and religious leaders you know Business Leaders if I go back uh I'm gonna put the first thing and my priorities is the self reconciliation um I'm gonna the re-look at the history which is usually the history one of the motivation for Wars and for conflict and for um you know a lot of disaster that we faced um we don't need to have the history as a burden um I would I would look at the history as a as a source of motivation to learn from their mistakes to continue their you know achievements I would also look at the wealth in a different way usually you know that's what I learned from my dad and my parents you know my mom and my family you know the the wealth it's going to be curse without um a mature management um if I will go back I will even invest more in my family in my friends aerial friends and the other friends which is the works um and also I will invest more in the land I love you know I didn't mention the gardening you know my yeah my my hobbies and and who knows I might be I might become farmers in in one of the villages closer to Samoa or in the Desert Oasis this is awesome I I think all the messages you just mentioned revolve around one thing improving communication whether it's communication by conflict when you talked about conflict communicating with with your peers or communicating within the family or communicating with yourself and I think gardening will make a great time sitting by yourself communicating your thoughts Dr nafal Hassan this was a great thank you for your time I really appreciate it it's my pleasure and I wish you a new program the best and inshallah I'll see you soon see you soon and uh this was identity capital thank you for tuning in [Music] no no no no no no no no no no no no no no [Music] no no no no no no no no no foreign [Music]

Channel: Identity Capital | رأس مال الهوية

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Id: 0LEfs51SCis

Length: 138min 22sec (8302 seconds)

Published: Sun May 28 2023