Nancy French on Love, Trauma, and Partisan Politics

[Music] [Applause] hello this is Russell Moore and you're listening to the Russell more show brought to you by Christianity Today every week we explore here conversations and questions from a Christian perspective to help you sort out how to live as a follower of Jesus in confusing times and this week we have a conversation to seek to do just that [Music] [Music] my guest Nancy French has written a book called ghosted an American story that really put me in an ethical old dilemma and here's what it was I was tempted to lie and the reason I was tempted to lie is because I read this book and I told Maria this is the most amazing Memoir I have ever read both in terms of storyline and in terms of literary power and I thought if I if I say what I really think about this book having to do with a friend of ours it's going to sound like I'm just making it up because she's our friend but at the same time if I don't say what I think about it I'm not going to be telling the truth so I just sort of toned down what I would have said but it's the most amazing Memoir I think I've ever read it's it's like Joan didon meets hillbilly elegy meets flaner o Conor meets Frederick beer okay so just imagine all that mixed in together plus hilarity and this is this is what I was trying to describe to somebody I said this is what this section of the book is about and I started talking about it was really really dark stuff I said and it is hilarious and the person said how is that hilarious I said you just have to read it to understand how that's the case Nancy French thanks for being on the show today Russell thank you so much for all the kind words and for for having me this is so much fun this is my first time to talk about the book oh that's cool that's cool for those of you who don't know Nancy French is a five-time New York Times bestselling author she has been a ghost writer part of the meaning of the word ghosted and she has written for a lot of people from Republican politicians to reality TV stars she's also an award-winning investigative journalist she uncovered sexual and spiritual abuse at America's largest Christian Camp and wrote about that to great effect in controversy over the past year and a half or so and now the Memoir ghosted you do talk about a lot of dark stuff in here including uh some of your own experience growing up and I'm wondering sometimes it's hard for me when I'm writing about something like that to think how much do I tell and how much do I not tell and are people going to be that I know and I love are they going to be offended when they hear this and are they going to say are you making fun of our hometown or something like that how did you work through all of that as you were writing this I delayed writing this for a long time because my parents are still alive but I decided to go ahead and write it as if they would never read it um and I'm not sure that my dad who learned his ABCs in his 20s has read any of my books but I decided to write it just honestly and then I decided to ask them for their blessing not their permission but their blessing so I drove over there I dreaded it I put it off for six months I dreaded it and I went into my parents house and I said okay they didn't even know I was writing a book and it had already leaked it was already on Amazon so I I told them about the book and it was the most surreal enlightening amazing conversation I've ever had in my life they were supportive it was awful we cried my dad explained some of his reasoning about some of his decisions in the past that were so understandable for him and his circumstance and at the end of the conversation he said you know I was at church and the preacher preached about a year ago about being a better father so my my dad's like 84 years old and he said and I've been praying every night that I could be a better father and so I said oh my gosh well this is your opportunity you know and I'd given him this opportunity and he responded graciously and my mother was gracious it was so beautiful and they could have died and me never had that conversation and the things they told me in that conversation were so enlightening because they provided me sort of like an understanding of why they you know raised me the the way they did and it helped them understand me more it was just so beautiful yeah that's the kind of dad I want to be at 84 that's incredible so sweet you talk about in the book A really complicated picture of growing up in the church and as relating to the the church as you were writing this what sorts of things did you discover about how Christian Life in the Bible Belt affected you later on you know I loved going to church it was my favorite thing in the world I loved potlucks I loved communion I loved Sunday school I loved youth group I loved it and then when I was sexually abused by my vacation bible school teacher it sort of uh took the Shine off that and so in the past few years I've just sort of been re-evaluating my preconceptions um especially with my investigative work on canac Cut camps MH I've been so disillusioned by everything and so I just struggle to read the Bible I struggle to pray I struggle to go to church now but this book writing process was so beautiful because I got this sort of like 30,000 foot view of my life and I can see God's hand working with me on me for me the whole way through even in the yucky Parts he was there and so there was something just so beautiful about that cuz you know that God is never going to betray you even if the church does when I think about all of the church sexual abuse survivors that I know in recent years who have come forward and who have had people do everything they can to absolutely destroy their lives MH I step back and I think as awful as the first crime was then it's compounded with just people wouldn't even believe the sorts of things that are said to uh people and I remember Maria and I both just livid with Fury after what some people would say after you told your story about the vacation bible school abuse I think in the context of uh the Roy Moore uh controversy several years ago and the Access Hollywood controversies and so forth and telling that story in the way that people would come after you and blame you for what you survived it was it was almost a a dress rehearsal for what we would see a thousand times over how do people even have the courage now to talk about what they've been through when when they get this kind of stuff I don't know I I hadn't even talked about my abuse to my counselor but he knew that it happened and he asked me to tell him about it and I was so unable to speak I couldn't tell the story so because I'm a writer he goes look I've got an idea go home write it down bring that piece of paper back I'll read it you don't have to say it it doesn't have to be out loud and we can deal from with it from there and so I did as instructed and then after I was finished it was I thought it was so like powerful to get it on paper that I sent it to the Washington Post and they published it and so when I did that I brought it in the next week to my counselor and handed him a copy of the Washington Post and he was like okay well this is not normally how it's done but I think we can do it so the way that I did it was not the best way because I was not emotionally prepared for everything that happened after that which was heinous and evil and also very encouraging and uplifting depending on you know the the people talking to you so I am not sure I when people call me to ask about whether they should go public with their abuse I'm always very sober reminded about it cuz it's been quite the travail did you regret telling your story when you did I didn't I got flowers in the mail you know people sent me flowers and I got cards in the mail and my counselor warned me that I would regret perhaps doing it this way but I never did I thought it was so empowering and the reason why I loved it is because it changed my entire outlook on life because the people that I thought would be my tribe the people that I thought should support me were horrific to me and then the people that I thought would be my enemies because they were on the other side of the political aisle they were supportive and I don't know what to make of that but it is a reality that I've adjusted to and I'm very thankful for all of my friends of both political Persuasions for being so supportive yeah isn't that wild it is it's it's really sural uh I know exactly what you're talking about of course and it is still surreal to see that I I wonder with writing about really high-profile cases I mean you mentioned your your series on kakok what have you learned about the way that institutions I mean you talked about being disillusioned what have you seen about the way institutions work in squelching people who have lived through awful things I mean we we've seen that just over and over and over and over and over again you've seen it up close so have I what what did you learn in all of that I've learned Terrible Things Russell I am I've never really seen an institution with whom I've been connected respond correctly like it's shocking even there's an organization that we donated to for forever well yeah two organizations and when a scandal erupted they just HIIT it and I think what happens is these institutions were created for God's glory in various ways and then they exchanged that purpose for brand management risk aversion brand management and so as Curtis Chang has written that is idolatry and idolatry is all throughout the Bible and when you read about Idols in the Old Testament they frequently demand sacrifice including women and children and I think that's what's happening now with all of these organizations they're completely fine at sacrificing the lives and well-being emotionally of women and children just to survive and it's quite shocking and it's horrific I wonder is it going to get any better I mean you and I were reeling together in various ways in 2016 over the Access Hollywood tape a presidential candidate talking about assaulting women now we're at a time when we've got another presidential campaign where the same candidate has been found liable for actual sexual assault not just talking about it but for actual sexual assault and nobody seems to even care it doesn't even seem to come up and I'm wondering it seems like we had a moment where maybe the church and other institutions were coming to a reckoning and an accounting but maybe we're not maybe we're normalizing all of this stuff in ways that are going to really hurt a lot of people I think so and I'm not really smart enough to figure out like what to do I'll leave that to you and David um but I don't I don't have much hope i' I've just seen it you know after the me movement which was so inspiring and difficult and Grievous I thought things would change and I think maybe they did in the culture but I don't think they did in the church I think the church looked at that as some leftwing propaganda that they had to fight and which is odd but you know with the church 2 movement I just see a lot of people talking about it who are victims but I don't see a lot of people talking about it who are institutions or churches or leaders you write about in the book several things that are not despondent at all one of them is about meeting your husband and even though I had heard the story many times from you and David reading it was a different sort of experience and as I'm I'm reading it I thought I wonder if there are any moms who are reading this or or somebody else who will think well gosh that worked out for them but I hope my daughter doesn't try it this way or something like that it was a crazily quick process how how did that come about yeah so I met David French on a sidewalk at lipam University I think in 1995 yes and we really hit it off I remember I was there yesterday actually I saw the sidewalk where we first met walked Walked right down it and we started chatting and we chatted for 4 hours and he was a complete stranger and I remember leaving that conversation and thinking I could talk to this person for the rest of my life and never be bored and when I would say that to my parents or to other people they would roll their eyes and say oh young love it's so you know idealistic but I promise you Russell we're at 28 years and I was right the guy is interesting he's strange a little um like I had to remove all the jawar posters from behind me in his office um but in some ways he's like a 12-year-old boy but he's amazing and he's interesting and wonderful and I would not advise anyone to decide on their second date to get married or to get uh married in 3 months or whatever like we did that was insane and whenever I talk about it I have so many people send me horror stories about their own husbands who led double lives and stuff like that and I'm always like I'm so sorry for you I don't know why this worked out it's just a miracle Well you ended up in this interesting very non-boring life becoming a ghost riter you talk about this uh in the book ghost writing for people such as the Palin family and uh the Romney and you all kinds of other people I don't know do people do people mind if if they're identified as it's usually they're upfront about the fact that they have somebody helping them write their book so it's not like it's a shameful thing so I guess I guess people don't mind yeah no some people do mind it's weird and I try not to work with those people because again I sorry this topic is coming up again I do feel like it's idolatry in a way I don't think it's deceptive because most celebrity books are written by people like me you know un obscure people who you know travel and do all this stuff and people don't really see us we're in the background but our agents do negotiate that so I have to get to make sure that I can say it I have to make sure it can be on my website sometimes we negotiate front cover name my name's on there you know microscopically and sometimes I don't want my name on there so we just have to work all that out but my clients have been so wonderful I love them so much even the ones that with whom I now politically disagree I just love them and they've been an incredible part of my life you ended up actually living for a little while with the Palin family the the Sarah Palin family which had to be wild because I mean I I'm kind of like you I have such mixed feelings because I'm in a very different place politically from sarap Palin now but I remember how thrilled I was by her in 2008 when she first came out and she started speaking I don't think people really remember that because they think of everything else whatever they think of Sarah Palin for good or for bad after that but this amazing figure in terms of communicating and and and so forth and you're there with them after they went from people in Alaska knowing them but not the rest of the country to being instantly some of the most controversial people on planet earth right what was it like to be in the house with them through all of that they were exactly like you think they would be so that's what I tell people so like I I remember cuz I am not great on details and so I had an address so I landed in Anchorage and I drove to the address and I thought it would be the the the Best Western in Lake Lucille or whatever but it was Sarah Palin's house and so I got to the gate and all these fans standing outside the gate and the gate had colored Christmas lights because of course Sarah Palin is going to have colored Christmas lights which I loved and they were looking at me and snapping pictures and they were like I think that's Willow Palin that's Willow that's the girl take pictures and so I was like uh hello but I drove up to the house and Sarah Palin opens the door and she's like hi I'm Sarah come in and I was like oh my gosh I was expecting the Best Western and what got was salm and casserole moose hot dogs the entire family it was like walking onto the set of you know like Sarah Palin's Alaska the reality TV show which I I watched every second of and they were so kind and welcoming and I also didn't plan for this Sarah was like Hey Bristol show Nancy where she can put her bags so I went into this studio that Todd had built for Fox News and there was a room there there's like an apartment so lovely and accommodating and freaking cold FYI and they were so kind to me and warm and we did things like run we ran errands with the the kids and ate dinner together and they were just lovely to me and uh it was treacherous because we were telling a story that about Bristol Palin that is complicated and we weren't going to try to spin it that's one thing I try to do as a ghost riter is not spin but instead just tell the truth because I feel like God is glorified in our honesty you know even if we've made mistakes well one of the cringiest moments of my life is being in a meeting with Mitt Romney and one of my staff members handing him a cup of coffee and my sitting there looking across the room he's a latterday saint he doesn't drink coffee and I thought you know part of what's so cringy about it is because you have this person who is one of the most upstanding figures in every Arena of life that I know and so you're just like oh man this is uh this is kind of like your disappointing dad so he was not disappointed he handled it great but you actually did more than that you lied to Mitt Romney yes thanks for bringing that up yes I I lied to Mitt Romney and almost killed him honestly almost got myself killed too but yeah that was crazy now one thing to know about the Romney they do keep caffeinated drinks at their house to serve guests because they're so hospitable which is so kind um but yes I did Li to M Romney about my skiing prowess for some reason I thought I could fake it or something but I could not and we ended up having some serious issues uh which it actually ended up with M Romney and I being entangled together and a bodily Mass that required him to push me off of him I think by my butt I didn't put that in the book but I I do think that happened so that was uh supremely embarrassing that was around the time or maybe it was after that you and David were part of a group called was it evangelicals for Mitt that's right yeah and people who don't remember that time period probably don't remember just how controversial Mitt Romney was in Evangelical circles because he is Latter Day Saint right and so you were having to talk to a lot of Evangelical Christians who just weren't sure about voting for somebody who wasn't a fellow born again Christian did you ever see coming what we have now where Mitt Romney is controversial but not because of his Mormonism because he doesn't believe in supporting people who've been found liable of sexual assault or overthrowing the government stuff like that I mean it is wild how much has changed in that very short period of time it is crazy and I wonder if it changed or if they were just sort of lying to us I'm not sure because back in the day you know we started evangelicals fromit and we had we had our Biblical arguments down about allying with LDS folks who were coant in the culture war and voted well and virtuous people and I I had all the scripture down and we would go to people's homes and church offices and we'd go to churches and we talk to our friends and we made the argument that he was an acceptable and moral choice um and then five minutes later these same people they're like you know that guy who appeared in Playboy that's my guy and I was thinking I just don't think you can change that much I think they were I think they were lying to us I know this a shock yeah well here's my theory of the case okay I've said for several years if you had just swapped out M Romney for Glenn backck also LDS the people who were so objecting to Romney for being Mormon would have been totally cool with that interesting I wonder because I don't think it's the theology I think it's what we have seen that what is so enraging to a lot of people are are the very reasons that those of us who admire Romney do right yes I think it's sort of like a conviction of the Holy Spirit too because evangelicals do not like to be outverted by Mormons and when you've got a Mormon telling you hey maybe we don't elect the serial philanderer SL liar insurrectionist it sort of Pricks your conscience because you think no I'm the one who's the one I'm the guy on social media talking about and tradition and values and the Bible how dare that you know I don't know it's just so bizarre cuz there's no accounting for it I mean at the time I think you're right that Glenn Beck probably maybe would have done better but at the time I called him Governor Romney and he had a very conservative record in even in Massachusetts which makes people apoplectic every time I bring it up but I think a lot of these accusations against him are code for Zen phobia you know like oh he's a Massachusetts liberal or he's a Yankee or whatever but it's just so complicated and I regret every second I spent trying to convince Baptist leaders to support the guy and they wouldn't because of their deeply held biblical beliefs only later and I'm not talking about much later to learn that they also were in serial Affairs you know I think that's the thing is that they're so morally la about their candidates because they're morally lack about themselves yeah it's shocking you and David have talked about this in in various places sort of the altright kind of backlash that you received especially on issues of race I mean you talk about disillusioning when when that kind of thing starts happening and you're wondering is this really what this country's like I know before I adopted my littlest baby who's now I didn't see racism around me and I think David and I have talked about it as like why are we suddenly seeing it everywhere and I think it's because if you're a middle class white Evangelical Christian it's not necessarily like socially acceptable to be racist casually or in Social settings and so you just don't talk about it but let's say that there's a 100 people and one out of a 100 to use a low estimate is a racist if one out of 100 is racist you and I wouldn't ever see it but if you were black and one in 100 were racist you would see it all the time and so when we adopted Naomi I noticed people following us at Nordstroms and following us at different stores and people at her school called her the nword and I mean and that's small in comparison to the stuff that we saw online which was people taking photos of my daughter and using racial slurs and photoshopping her into awitch Chambers and having Donald Trump pull the gas lever photoshopping her face onto historical photos of slaves and the worst thing was that people said that we had not adopted Naomi but that she was the product of an illegitimate Affair that I did not have that's they said that I had it I did not have an affair while David was in Iraq but that's what they were claiming that the times worked out and so at one point I went online and saw videos that had been faked obviously of me I'm trying to think how to say this politely but enjoying the company of several black men while David looks through a window like this kind of stuff that is so Insidious that people like us can't even talk about it because it is so outside the realm of our normal conversations and so it's just egregious and you can't just call your friend and say hey so this is what's happening to me what's your advice because their advice usually was what this is I've never even heard of evil like this and you know Hallmark doesn't make a card so it was very isolating and because I'm a sex abuse victim it made me feel so much more shame to have all these people online talking about me in this way it was just anathema it was horrible what's it like being in a a church that's majority black now yes we go to a a majority black church in Nashville and it's wonderful I love it so much we have a wonderful pastor and our church is maybe 8515 our youngest is adopted from Ethiopia that's why all of these conversations had happened but it's so wonderful so recently I many of you have followed my journey online and I had gotten a recent cancer diagnosis so I'm as bald as an eagle this is a wig and I wanted to wear a scarf to church this past Sunday morning so that I didn't look you know like Telly savales and so I said Naomi I'd love to wear a scarf but I don't know how to do that and she said mom black women wear scarves and I'm black so but it was so wonderful because she wore her scarf and I wore a scarf and we walked into church and there were all these beautiful black women wearing scarves and they gave us a head knot and they made a big deal at how cute we were which we were and um there was something so endearing to that and when we left Naomi took my hand and she goes I'm so glad I know how to tie scarves now it makes me feel closer to my culture and that broke my heart but you know it's very difficult to to raise a child who's A different race than you and it's you know you have to sort of figure out how do you do it how do you do it naturally and organically so it's not a library project and so we decided to go to this predominantly African-American church so that we are the ones who stick out like a sore thumb not Naomi and it's been very beautiful and an amazing preacher an amazing preacher and there's a lot because we went from a PCA church to A Strong Tower and at our new church there's a few more amens yeah as you might imagine very enthusiastic and lovely and amazingly lifegiving which is what I need you know you were talking in the book and we have talked elsewhere about this situation that happened with a Critic of of yours particularly a Critic of David's that you built a relationship with can can you tell us about that okay so people hate Us online some people love us so after I wrote that Washington Post piece about my sexual abuse I was so disillusioned by the church's response I decided to follow anybody who was kind to me this part of that process of readjusting like what you think about how you connect with people so anytime someone made a positive comment I liked it and I followed them which meant that I started following a person named Kathy kattenberg and I thought she was a person she her profile image was a I stand with immigrants icon so she hated David French even though she was kind to me she had made one kind comment to me and then she I started noticing every time I logged on that she she disagreed with David about anti-Semitism abortion imig literally anything you can mention she herself had had four abortions I think so she was very loud about that and so anytime David posted about abortion she was like why don't you you know you hate women I mean it was like off the chain it wasn't your normal criticism well about 10 years ago I made this probably ill-conceived idea this goal of when I see someone in duress I stopped to try to help them which by the way has landed me in the floor of the Loria bathroom with a drunken passenger uh who got kicked off a flight where I was assuring her that she had inherent dignity under you know God's eyes all the stuff the stuff that has happened has been crazy but this is the craziest so Kathy tweeted that she did not have any food it was during the covid crisis and that she hadn't been able to get any food for weeks I did not want to reach out to Kathy ber but I did and I was like hey I'm Nancy French I'm David's wife I saw your Tweet are you food insecure and she goes oh you know I think we need to talk on the phone which is like my waterl I don't want to talk on the phone and so so you're a you're a gen z i I guess I mean that proclivity for sure I'm Gen X solidly almost 50 so but I so she called me on the phone she had this New York accent and I sound like this and she was explaining to me that she was disabled and couldn't leave the house and because of the covid crisis all of the delivery services were overwhelmed and that she'd been eating pancake mix for two weeks and I was like okay Kathy we can do this and we could not do this I mean I tried everything I called synagogues she's Jewish I called PCA churches no one could help because everybody needed help I thought her situation was much more dire than just you know people like me who couldn't get out out of you know being cautious and so I called Kathy the fourth day and we talked every day and she'd given me her little grocery list and all of the things she wanted from Aldi's which was so sweet and we really got to know each other and she goes Nancy why are you doing this and I was like I don't know Kathy Jesus you know like I just made this vow because I'm a Christian and we are supposed to take care of each other and I don't know and she laughed so hard and I was like but I am failing I this is the fourth day so now she's two weeks and four days with only eating pancake mix and I said I don't know what to do and I was almost crying and she was almost crying and I said I guess we could pray and that is the type of thing that Christians say and no one really prays and Kathy who's Jewish said okay pray then and I was like oh my gosh I do not want to pray I don't pray out loud and I definitely didn't want to pray out loud with this person who troll RS us constantly but I was like okay Kathy but I don't know how Jews pray and I don't want to offend you and she goes just pray it's no big deal so we prayed and the food came in truck fools because I'd made like three different orders and the hopes that one would click none of them clicked until they clicked simultaneously so she ended up with like 24 cans of tomatoes and you know 30 Bananas I mean just and she was crying and I was crying and it it was so sweet to get to know someone and I realized through the process that behind the main tweets is usually some serious trouble you know and so I learned from Kathy that when you see people who are acrimonious online there's probably more to the story and I hope to have more compassion towards people like that I love Kathy we've met her in person when I go to New York I invite her to my events and we get to hang out I've been to her place and anyway it's this is like three years later and I love Kathy kattenberg I tell her I love her on the phone it's the biggest 180 that I think can happen just in online like that I wonder why it's so hard for that to happen I mean it's it's so rare that people are actually able to make that connection it seems like once you do that it's that initial point of contact but it's just really rare right now it is so rare and I have a lot of horror stories that's my success story but I've reached out to people and been eviscerated but I think it's important for reaching out to them yeah well for reaching out to them and then they Google me oh I see and then I sit down and they're like loaded for bear they're ready to absolutely put me on a skillet you write about in this book ghosted about a lot of good things but also a lot of really really hard things growing up in Rural America and when we look around and and you see I know somebody who came from a rural part of a not rural place but a rural part of it there's a lot of people who are really struggling in Rural America when you look at teen pregnancy rates when you look at opioid addiction rates you look at alcoholism rates you look at job loss you look at all of those things I'm sure when you look back you can think of a lot of people who didn't make it in those kinds of circumstances why did you I have no idea I am you know I'll tell you the truth of what my theory is and it's actually the truth but this will make everybody groan and roll their eyes David French I when I met him and you can see it in the book you know the first four chapters is it's trauma trauma trauma trauma and I was like oh my gosh I have to make sure no one actually gets this book but when David French shows up um and y'all don't tell I said this it changed the trajectory of my life in so many ways in so many way IM immeasurable like I can't even tell you the trajectory just changed and it went from going down to going up and going up I'm not talking about financially or whatever I'm talking about like hope I probably I might not even be here if I hadn't met him but there's something so beautiful about love because it is it sort of covers over you in a way so that you don't have to be marred by shame or I know that people hate it when I say that people I but I just David French changed my life and meeting him is is the point at which everything starts getting better so if you're reading the book and you're depressed because so much bad happens just wait until he shows up and then a lot of crazier things happen you know what I think happened what because I think when you're talking about love and finding your person I think all that's true but I think there's an additional element to it and that is you know how the the his name is escaping me right now but the psychologist several years ago was talking about how you can tell when a couple's headed for disaster once they start to have contempt not just arguing but they have contempt well I see kind of an opposite thing which is whenever David talks about you when you're not there there's just this beaming Pride so it's it's not just that he loves you it's just like he's so proud of you and when you mentioned that about you're never going to be bored together right I think that's a big part of it is the way that the two of you sort of the the interplay that goes on there of people who don't just love each other but you you obviously like each other and obviously respect each other too I think that that's key I think so too and the thing about David that y'all probably don't know I mean I know he writes about audite topics but the man is a 12-year-old at heart I mean he is he loves to have fun you know this he like once Russell he was going to meet with some senators and he comes out of the bathroom and he's wearing a Memphis Grizzlies like beanie that has like a big poof ball of yarn at the top and I was like really and he was like yeah you got to show him who boss and I was like oh my gosh literally what is wrong with him but he prioritizes fun in such a beautiful way so we have so much fun as a family we watch TV together we play games together we just the predominant sound here is laughter punctuated by all the normal things of life but he has this zest for life that is so beautiful you referenced this a little bit ago and we we talked earlier about being disillusioned by seeing all of the awful things that a lot of us have seen over the past several years you recently uh got cancer diagnosis and you're going through chemo right now right as we're talking what have you learned about faith and hope and love through that so far so I'm not sure about the faith angle because I'm so like sort of in shock the craziest thing is that I met a guy on a sidewalk almost 30 years ago and I liked him because I thought he was funny and you know fun and now he's taking me to chemo and he will not miss chemo for anything like you just go and you sit I'm on my laptop I'm probably tweeting but he's right beside me and he's rescheduled trips so that he can sit beside me and I think the thing that is so freaking exhilarating about the whole thing is when you can see the effects of love and how deep it goes if that makes sense because I know we've been married almost 30 years and we've had so many crazy things and he almost ran for president and all this stuff but and he was deployed to Iraq For Heaven's Sake we've had so many ups and downs but this is cuz I have a very very aggressive form and just being loved by everyone and the other correlation of this this is so weird but I was outed as a cancer patient so David was on a zoom and the he didn't realize the the mic was live and so he was chitchatting and I don't think you were there Russell it was an Afterparty thing but he started speaking and go sorry I'm late Nancy had to have surgery and chemo port surgery and so all the people in the comments they were like did you hear that Nancy FR what's wrong with Nancy you know whatever and so this was very new this was back because I there was a maybe a one to two week period of time where I thought the cancer had spread because it's in my lymph nodes and all that and I thought I was dying and I you know I I intend to live but so I was outed and I had not intended to tell people about it cuz I don't know why there's something that so like personal and horrible about it but after it was out I decided just to make an announcement so I write this thing like we're better together and you know I don't want to tell you this but I think I'm going to overcome my fears well y'all didn't know that I was already outed and that was all sort of like me trying to put my best face on it but having done that was so wonderful for me so we've talked a lot about the cess pool that is formerly known as Twitter but so help me I love these social media platforms I love them people have been so kind and so I decided to be honest about my cancer I also decided to post photos when my hair finally fell out and I looked different I decided to post that picture and so when I did that I got all these messages from people who have been sort of silently dealing with their cancer because like me they wanted to keep it secret and being public about it has been so sweet I mean you like you guys brought food and people have sent me 50 million pairs of socks and blankets and an electric blanket and just my house is full with of love it's not that I needed the extra pair of socks but by golly I'm wearing them and when I wear them I feel the love and it's from strangers it's from friends it's from the church it's just been so invigorating and lifegiving I'm so thankful that it came out I really encourage all of our listeners to get this book ghosted I mean I I promise you you will start it and will not want to take the time to put the bookmark in and go do something else it's a riveting story and like I said dark and hilarious at the same time and you'll just have to read it to see what I mean Nancy French we are fans of yours here and are so glad to have this conversation with you thank you for [Music] everything if you enjoy the russle mo show take a second to share this episode with a friend or leave a rating and review wherever you get your podcasts the Russell Mor is a production of Christianity Today executive producers are Eric Petri Russell Moore and Mike cosper host is Russell Moore produced by Ashley Hales associate producers are Abby Perry and McKenzie Hill director of operations for CT media is Matt Stevens audio engineering provided by Dan Phelps video producer is Abby Egan and the theme song for the wrestle Mo show is Dusty Delta Day by Lennon Hutton [Music] oh

Channel: Christianity Today

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Id: Op-EhzvnCKM

Length: 46min 11sec (2771 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 10 2024