Mystic Mentoring Thursday 18th February 2021 US EST

let's uh let's throw it open anyone got anything they want to talk about yes mike yeah okay um i would like you to share your projection as to experiencing the love of god and living out of that love through personal and intimate relationship as opposed to for instance my background i was a part of a great pentecostal church for 30 years and of course they emphasize works quite a bit and performance and in our echelon of pentecostalism kind of projected the mindset the ultimate was you should ascend to becoming a minister and then you've kind of arrived and you go from there and i matriculated through all of that and in my past i ministered uh internationally and would travel just again and again to uh europe many many times speaking in conferences and beyond and so as god as i say divinely discontented me where i could no longer stay there uh god began to deal with me in progressive revelation i began to see grace as really amazing and he moved me over many years in progressive revelation from one area to another however much of that time to a degree i've lone-ranged it not thoroughly i participated in a small fellowship for some years in south florida and i've been with some ascension groups but generally and you know i thankfully have people still that i relate to and i have a good friend where we can talk and minister to one another in the spirit and i enjoy being a part of this mentoring group but i still to a degree struggle with in my own personal dealings with my struggles again that whole scheme of destiny and you must do the will of god you must fulfill your destiny and um so i see god dealing with me in being as opposed to doing and believe me i could teach that i know it inside and out however it's still an area again with my background that i'd like to hear more the love of god and personal intimate relationship from my perspective is everything and out of that rest in being i know will come to doing but i still need to hear and so that's what i'm asking you to speak to okay um i think the statement that god sort of spoke to me about a number of years ago about living loved and loving living and living loving really sums up the place of rest that you can be in obviously it starts with a an experience of unconditional love now those experiences go from the initial emotional biblical you know where you know the truth by intellectual understanding and no one would doubt that god is love or that god loves us but you know how we experience that is very different and so to live loved means you need to encounter the pure love of god in a way that brings a deeper experience of unconditional love because most love from a religious standpoint i believe is conditional because i think all religions are conditional that's the nature of religion you have to do something to earn something in religion even if it's god's love you know there are there are conditions put upon it in all different religions and all different branches of christian religion will put different things on that so we have to come away from that mindset and i think only by encountering and experiencing the unconditional love can that mindset be deconstructed because you can't deconstruct something that you are living within so i can't deconstruct my own mind because i'm going to deconstruct it with my present thinking and my present thinking is flawed so i'm never going to be able to deconstruct it you know adequately because i'm still limited to my own understanding whereas if my encounters lead to cognitive dissonance which challenge my thinking then those encounters can cause a deconstruction if i embrace them rather than fight or resist them and religious programming tends to keep us from the intimacy by having to do something which means that we don't trust nothing you know well if i can't do something can i trust it you know because we've been conditioned into well you know that whole mindset which is works based so initially lived to live loved i have gone through various iterations of what that means by experience from beginning with the theoretical biblical and then through initial experiences which revealed the beginning of god's nature to me as love and therefore that then took me towards and that love must be unconditional because then he began to show me how he saw me which was very different from how i saw myself so i faced in a sense the fire of his love in an intense experiential way initially by engaging the fire stones of heaven which took me into a love and fruit of the spirit experience beyond anything i'd ever experienced before and that that just left me wanting more but i didn't understand it i just experienced it and it was just like wow you know and then more experiences engaging the the fire of god's eyes and heart within the within the judgment seat therefore he showed me that all of my works all of the things i'd done for him all of the things i'd not done for him that i could have done for him there was no condemnation just love so he never focused on the negative in those experience always focusing on the positive to try and get me to realize that it wasn't conditional i didn't have to be obedient for him to love me i didn't have to try and please him he already was pleased with me and therefore bit by bit that old covenant mindset of you know love the lord you god with all your heart all your mind all your strength and your neighbor as yourself and that was you need to do that i came away from that in realizing i couldn't do that there was nothing i had in myself that would enable me to do that adequately if there was any sort of exam or pass mark for me to reach so but god showed me he had already accomplished the past mark so what he had done for me was enough there was nothing i could add to it or take away from it it was already done i was already included he loved me as much as he was ever gonna love me and that love was unconditional and was not based on whatever i did in the future and it certainly wasn't based on whatever i'd done in the past now that brought me to a point of now i can actually really begin to experience love because everything up to that point was getting me to the point where i actually believed that that was true you know and i didn't need to do anything negative positive or anything it was about being and and i think i began to realize that that was how god saw me felt about me and also everybody so then because i experienced that and love limit unlimited love limitless love unconditional love limitless grace there was no it's never going to run out and i could do nothing to make it stop and i could do nothing to make it become more because it couldn't become more so all of the things that i used to sort of have in the back of my mind the programming of those religious things all bit by bit just fell away penal substitution atonement that god needed appeasement all of that view of god which you know i was programmed with through evangelical uh beliefs all of that fell away and now i was left with actually i can enjoy this this is joy this is peace this is something that is beyond whatever i could have imagined or thought and now i was at the point where i was just able to begin to experience it and then begin to see how deep high wide broad that was you know there was no escaping it i could not escape you know the love of god there was nothing i could do romans 8 you know and the reality of that became true for everybody and everything created thing because he showed me experiences where my judgment of whether someone was worthy or not was definitely not the way he viewed those people because i valued or didn't value them on basically what they've done well that's not the way he values us or sees us is all about who we are and he only sees us the way he made us to be he doesn't see us the way we actually appear to ourselves or to other people which is why there's no guilt shame and condemnation in the process of maturing and being transformed and having our minds renewed so that we actually think and then we are according to what we think and we're aligned to what his thinking is so that got me to a point where love is wonderful life is wonderful everything's an opportunity there is no i'm not gonna make a a mistake today and get it wrong if i do something which doesn't quite it's all about learning from that not feeling guilty feeling ashamed oh no i'm not good enough i i'm not worthy i didn't do it good enough because that is not in his thinking at all you know so it's so liberated me to enjoy life and to in to enjoy other people and not to judge people in the way i might have done you know in any shape or form which then came to the now you can live loving because now you can love people the way i love them unconditionally that's why i could go into the fires of you know the consuming fire is love engage with people there who no one would consider worthy of salvation from any matter of works but of course it's totally by grace so i could then minister to people who before there was no way i would have even considered that i could minister them or god could minister them because they made their choice they got to suffer the consequences well that was all coming from the condition of well that's how god treated me and therefore i was afraid of him ultimately when you re when i really boil it down i did not trust him because actually i was afraid that he was not pure love but he might have had another side to him therefore he may be two-faced and we use the old testament and the new testament to sort of hey it's the same god you know because it doesn't appear like it's the same god you know and obviously the way they presented it it doesn't definitely doesn't look like it's the same goal but it is and he's still the same he's still loving you know then began to to sort of move more and more away from anything which was associated with the need to perform measure up compare with any standard other than this is who he who i am and this is who he says i am and then actually believing that and then beginning to function from it now that doesn't mean i'm perfect and i think love the the what people require in i need love i think is very very much coming from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil rather than what is love in the tree of life perspective and in god himself and therefore we want people to treat us a certain way and be a certain way to us which actually is usually conditional you know it isn't unconditional and usually our love for someone depends on what they do for us and learning to to learn to be and not be pressured to be anyone other than who god made you to be and that should be a representation of him obviously as pure love but it's not necessarily the way people view it and people will put requirements on you and say well you're not very loving and it's like well what are you measuring that against what they want from you but that might not be who you are the way god made you to be and therefore we've got to be very careful we don't get sucked into what people want us to be ultimately living loving for me was a a representation of god's willingness to forgive and hold nothing against anybody it doesn't mean that i have to like everybody god doesn't like everybody because most people are not actually like he made them to be therefore how can he possibly like us in our present state but he can love us and he does love us and he holds nothing against us in that way because it's all dealt with but it doesn't mean that he's content to let us just continue the way we are he's at work continually to bring us into the revelation and the fullness of who we are so you know it's a journey which has brought me through many encounters of experience to realize that i just need to be me you know and i'm wired in a particular way you know and i just need to be comfortable with that and other people may not be comfortable with that sometimes my wife says to me well you know i don't you're not what she's really saying is you're not really much like me you know how how i deal with people or how i you know engage with the children or how i engage with the grandchildren and how i do this and how i do that now i'm not perfect and i'm sure i could be a better version of me than i presently am but i can never be her and i can never be anybody else and if i try to accommodate their view i will actually hinder the journey to me actually fully being who god wants me to be and there are seasons on that journey where actually you know you go through things that are not really where you're gonna end up they're stepping stones and as long as you keep moving you're moving towards you know what people call your perfected self or the self that god made you to be and you're moving away from where you were you know but we always must be you know sometimes you know you know i'm particularly wired for a particular purpose and destiny which i i have in god i feel no pressure to have to deliver that because i know the more i relax and just am the easier all that will be at work but in that there are certain characteristics that i'm wired with which enables me to do the things that i'm doing and if i became more like my wife or more like other people i would not be able to fulfill that so i've got to be very careful that i'm not conformed to someone else's mold i definitely don't want to be conformed to the world's mold i don't want to be conformed to my own mold i want to be conformed to the mold that he made to form me then i will end up being that person um and you know and i and i think there are some areas where i am very blinkered and focused you know and you know and you know if i was to objectively probably look at my life i would probably say i'm on some sort of spectrum which enables me to sort of you know focus my attention and do things you know very very specifically and not give up on those things and some of the other peripheral things really sort of like i just don't even see you know when i'm on a mission to be focused in what i'm doing for god and and for some people they don't that's that's a struggle you know so you know i love engaging with people i love in this setting but i could easily live as a hermit you know without actually a physical connection with many people because i'm not needing a lot of things in that way because i'm sort of not self-sufficient but i find that the love of god makes me require a lot less from other people so i'm very very satisfied and content with god's love and therefore don't really require a lot of input from others now other people would say well yeah but you're independent well yeah to a degree i am and i'm sure there's probably a degree where that still has to get at work but i know when i've talked to god about this and i have because you know when people say to me things and i sort of question i ask well you know well how does this work you know am i supposed to change to be more like the person they want me to be you know and when that aligns to the way god wants me to be of course but actually what god has said to me over and over again you know do not try and change the way i made you because someone doesn't like it and i'm like well i don't want to use that as an excuse to just be whatever you know but whatever they might see you know because when i used to sort of do the church role and sort of do the leader church role you know i was never the warm fuzzy cuddly pastor type you know you know in that sense you know because i'm sort of visionary you know and driven in a sense in in the right way you know in the when i really see something i pursue it and i go after it you know and i'm doing that in a much more rest situation than i would have done in the past but you know people wanted me to be the pastor they wanted well i never ever accepted the title so i was never ever going to conform to that to their image of what that should be now i think over the years i've become more relational and i'm deaf i'm open you know i don't i'm not closed towards people at all i can share anything with anybody about anything you know personal or not and i'm never fearful of people knowing me and my life and everything else so i don't hide things um but i am who i am you know and there's a sense where in there i've got to be moving towards god's best for me if you like but making sure that i don't try and change because other people want me to change but i'm being transformed by him so all of that comes out of i think being able to rest in love and not be pressured in any way to perform or be anything other than what god has made me to be you know and he has made me in certain ways i look at some of the prophets and some of them i mean they did have some peculiarities you know which i think were god given to enable them to function you know and you know i mean it was like i always remember jb phillips who wrote the jb phillips translation of the bible had ocd you know and it was like oh that's not a good thing well god used that to focus on his attention to detail of the greek language and making sure he had everything in order in his translation you know so god can weave some of even our brokenness on our journey into the story and when we become healed of that brokenness then we begin to change and be transformed but i i wouldn't sort of i wouldn't want to go any other way than i've gone you know what i mean i don't hold regrets i mean yes there are things i've done which have affected other people and certainly i would not want to have done that but in general the what got the journey god has taken me through i guess that is the way he knew i needed to go you know otherwise you know it would have been a different journey you know now you know so i wouldn't change it you know i wouldn't try and make it easier i wouldn't try and you know make it more comfortable it has been the shocks and the challenges and the sometimes the dark clouds and sort of enabled me to get where i am now i'm sure there's a long way to go and you know i must have a long way to fully revealing the unconditional love of god to people but i can only do it by being me not by being someone else and i think that is the pressure of religion is to conform us to a norm of what is acceptable a standard which is a good christian you know a godly life and all of that you know and and i sort of i'm not going to be conformed to that sort of mold [Music] um but i do want to change and i want to be transformed and i do fully want to represent you know my aspect of who i am is as a son of god to people but we're all different you know my redemptive gift is very different from people who are mercy gift and other other servant gifts and other gifts so i can never be that to them but i hopefully will learn to be more merciful and more servant-hearted because jesus would have been all the seven redemptive gifts in fullness so eventually i guess i'll get there but i can't try and do something and be something unless he transforms me to then i realize that that's what i am and then i will reflect that so if i might see if i can tailor more specifically uh you know i came into the heavenly realm through you where about five six years or so ago as i followed you started to follow you on youtube i began began to have multiple many many phenomenal supernatural encounters just again and again and then all of a sudden they seemingly kind of stopped and i remember i was in intimacy with the father and he said to me intimacy will get you everywhere and i got the message don't seek after supernatural encounters blah blah blah but make the main thing the main thing and then uh i had a phenomenal encounter i was in a a house meeting and a condo and they were having a religious type service the typical things of singing worship the ministry of the word but at the beginning of that god launched me in the realm of my spirit into the river of water of life of revelations chapter 22 verse 1. i was swimming in that while the service is going on and then i looked up and i saw the lord on the throne but there was a problem when i saw jesus on the throne he was a clown he had on a clown costume and he was acting goofy and it kind of offended my sense of religious holiness you know wait a minute god but he was not impressed with my superior knowledge of godhood you know and then to make matters worse he jumps off the throne into the water and begins to play with me lovingly like a father would at the beach on a swimming pool and against like i just kind of you know this is a little bit too real god but it'd be like he would dunk me when i would begin to voice my objections and just act more and more as the happy god and i got the message he's seeking to transform me more and more as such i could go on i'm not going to again though with me i see you i see like a gill and adina and i could mention a number of other people again with my kind of background and now all i'm doing basically i get up every morning and i'll spend hours uh watching videos and time with god many times and i go out and i play golf about every day most most of time twice a day and i just can't feel comfortable and don't know how to i've tried over the years i tried pastoring for just a little while and that didn't work and this and that and nothing has ever quote amounted to anything so there is yet that sense of concern uh as well as desire that i feel is god-given that i don't see thoroughly being realized there's enough word in me and now with the revelation and progressive understanding of the love of god and knowing god in the heavens and it goes on i came into inclusion a few years ago through francois de toit and others but i'm kind of sitting on it and enjoying it for myself and uh in a sense i don't think that's quote fair as such um but jesus only did what he saw the father doing so there isn't a well here's the the pattern that you have to follow because jesus didn't follow a pattern he had a relationship so if you're engaging with god every day and you're enjoying that relationship and you're open for him to give you any sort of revelation of what he wants you to do every day whilst playing golf or any other time and he's not showing you anything more than you're already doing then just enjoy what you're already doing and he'll show you if he wants to you see you know i i you know in the last 12 18 months since not really sort of doing the church thing because we've not had that sort of meeting type orientation for the last 18 months or so i found it so liberating just to enjoy no i don't go out in the golf course very often i mean if i had someone to play with i probably would but i don't so i tend to sort of go into my workshop or go into the garden or do practical things like that i've learned to enjoy that without any sense of guilt or anything else now during that do i enjoy god's presence in it yeah because i'm creative and he's there with me and i'm conscious even in those things that i'm not on my own but i never feel oh i should be out doing this or doing that now am i a good neighbor well if if there's a need for anything in my neighborhood that needs doing or my neighbor asked for help i will be there you know what i mean but i'm going to go i don't go looking for whoa what should i be doing today should i because i'm resting and relaxed in the he'll show me if there's anything he wants me to do and i'll recognize the signs when i come across something that he wants me to do and if it's his hand isn't on it or his fingerprints in on it i won't do it even if everyone else might have done it because they felt obliged i don't feel obliged to do anything other than i see him doing now there's a general sense where you know being loving and being kind and you know being thoughtful and all those things i think are part of that but not conforming to someone else's norm only to well what is it that the father is with me in today and you're open you're engaging so enjoy it if he wants to change that he's quite capable of showing you and telling you something you know but it's it is probably the programming or that still that little bit of guilt there well you know the the protestant work ethic whatever you know the religious work well i should be doing something you know what should i be doing well whatever it is that he inspires you to do and and if if that's nothing more than what you're doing right now we'll keep doing what you're doing right now until he shows you something different enjoy it rejoice always again i say rejoice enjoy rejoice in the game of golf you know if i had the weather and the opportunity to play golf every day i might consider it you know you know at the moment i'm not in that place having not retired and i'm doing this every day if i was doing playing golf every day i wouldn't be doing this but but but actually at the moment this is what the father is doing through me and with me so i wouldn't go and play golf every day right now because that would stop me doing this you know so but if if i was no longer doing this and god was no longer wanting me to do this i would certainly look for other things that he might want me to do or just to enjoy the opportunities to do things i like because he likes me doing things that i like he enjoys me enjoying life he's not looking at me thinking well why is he doing that you know isn't there something better he could be doing that is not how god views it life is to be enjoyed yeah we should be filled with joy his joy is in us so our joy can be full so i do think there is a sense where you know the way we think about it is is somewhat programmed you know and that programming needs to be removed so that you can enjoy now if you're saying well i don't think i can hear well then practice hearing a bit more you know it's almost sort of like if you want if you're unsure that you're hearing that what god wants you to do well then spend a little bit time focused on that but i would not set that as my agenda for my time with god because that's a danger i was fell into the trap of well what are we doing today you know what are we doing but what are we doing you know and eventually he pulled me up on that and stopped me from doing it every day you know to make the point it isn't about doing why do you keep asking for a mandate because i was i wanted to know what i'm supposed to do today what's my mandate and learning about mandates is great and important but it can't become the focus my time with god was without agenda i don't go into it looking for a mandate i don't go into it looking for what the father's doing i just want to spend time with him which has the consequence that his heart is revealed and i will sense what he's doing um just out of the relationship but my agenda is just i just want to be with him if he wants to talk to me that's great if he doesn't want to talk to me that's great if he wants to show me something that's great if he doesn't that's great i you know i i'm i've been liberated i think from the whole religious exercise of having to do anything even having to engage if i got to the point where i was having to engage or and whatever that all might be i would know that i would i'd gone off track now my desire is there to engage but i know it's not driving me because of any consequence if i didn't because i'm free from that sort of mentality but it did take a lot of deconstruction a lot of deprogramming for me to get to that point where i can truly enjoy you know and i'm not constrained by time you know other people well what are you doing with your time you know i know i don't i don't i'm not beholden to people's view of what i do with my time you know and and i think ultimately we need to be free from the constraints of others or any sort of system would put on us to just be and enjoy you know so some weeks you know i might be doing lots and lots of engagements governmental groups even in evening things with people and other things and some other other weeks for whatever reason i do less and i'm writing a book so i use the time to write the book but i'm not you know i'm not pressured you know there's no pressure behind it to perform in any way i sort of live a much more fluid and flexible enjoyable lifestyle the there's no pressure for me to write this book in a time period unless god told me to he does want me to get on with it but there's no like oh no i've got to write i've got to do it god will be annoyed if i don't write it by here it is it'll take as long as it takes i'm focused and but i'm not doing it every minute of every day because that would be obsessive you know and i don't want to be obsessive because that obsession would be driven by um performance motivation and it and i'm not you know so i would just say relax enjoy and be open and look out for anything that god brings across your path but don't go searching for it you know you don't need to go searching for it god's quite capable of bringing things across your path or showing you exactly what he wants you to do and where he wants you to go in the in line with who you are not in line with some what someone else is you know i mean evangelists will always be putting the guilt trip on everybody that they're not preaching the gospel enough i mean because that's what they do because that's what motivates them they think that should motivate everybody now about being and being the light and being an expression of joy and love and will be drawing people in a way that bashing them over the head with bible rushes won't you know or making them feel guilty about the fact that what they're doing or how they're living well all their behaviors you know that isn't it's never worked it never will work so why do we ever feel that we have to do that because that's the thing if you're in the mormon church you've got to go out and knock on doors same with the jehovah witnesses or whatever you there are there are things that those sort of whether you call them cults or sex or whatever they have very works orientated systems to make sure that you toe the line and do the work that they want you to do you know i'm not beholden to any of that really you know i've you know i've got a contract which doesn't have any hours in here so you know i don't have to fit into a nine to five or whatever it's just not because that would be constraining to me you know at eight o'clock in the evening one night i might get an inspiration to read something or go and research something online and get information or get some stuff well if if i only worked between nine to five i could legitimately say well i'm not gonna i wouldn't think about doing that but i i live a more inspired lifestyle that gives me freedom to do whatever i want when i want you know but not in an independent way but in a relational way with god yeah so i would say enjoy it enjoy relax and just be open and see where the father takes that but if you never did another thing religious thing whatever that thing might be god loves you no less you know and who knows what is within your destiny it might have play two rounds of golf every day and enjoy the wonderful beauty of creation that i've made i mean you know i'm not being frivolous with that because who knows that might be what god has for you as well as other things and you've tried to do all sorts of other things to fill and occupy your time which actually he may be very very happy and probably is with you enjoying life but he won't be he won't be happy that you aren't being happy or you're feeling in some way was gonna be more than this and i i'm thinking i'm i'm not really fulfilling my calling or whatever it might be you know you know one some people might have a one only calling you know i always remember the story of you know someone going into heaven and you know sort of you know going before god and and telling them all telling god all the wonderful things they've done in their life and all the amazing preaching they've done and how many people they led to jesus and all this stuff you know and there was this old lady there or something and and she and all she said was you know i rescued a cat one day and jesus said well done my good and faithful servant you know and i know it was a a story to sort of parody the situation but it god wasn't impressed with all the works you know so we've got to be very careful we don't conform to someone else's view of what our life should be thank you sir okay mary okay um well just to to dovetail off of what what we were you were just talking about in terms of how things can just happen in your life when you're not really looking for what is the mandate for today uh for the longest time we we were part of a group that met at starbucks a couple times a week and sat monopolized the corner and talked and of course everything changed with covet uh and starbucks cafe is no longer open so we have translated to trans gone to another local coffee shop which just looks like that's where we're going to be staying and at our time at starbucks um we have another friend warren who is a believer there was a young man who lived in who lives in his neighborhood who does computer uh programming he's a programmer but and because of that he doesn't always have to be in the office so there would be times that he would be sitting next to us in starbucks he'd be doing his work but he'd hear the conversation he would jump in because he would know warren so we built a a rapport with him well then of course covert came along and everything shut down and we moved over to uh to the other coffee shop and he happened to warren happened to run into him one day and said well hey you know we we just meet now down at southern mugs and so probably for the past couple months on saturday mornings he he has been coming in and we all know each other and so he's been joining in the conversation and of course turns out getting to know him more he's interested in trading the market my husband trades oil futures so we have warren is interested in trading the market so we've we've built some real common ground without you know and this guy's not a believer you know so it's not been the thing about border got a ram before spiritual laws down his throat well two weeks ago one of the very young baristas at the starbucks died and not really sure what the circumstances are but he a very very young guy and so this past saturday when cliff came in he had mentioned that he went to the memorial service and so we talked a little bit about that and he and a friend were going to go to the funeral the next day and that was pretty much the extent of it we got talking and all of a sudden out of the blue he said was where do you guys go to church and we said and so we started explaining to him well we used to be we used to go to church but we're not in church now but this is what we're doing but joe really had the opportunity to really talk to him about that it's really not about going to church it's about having this relationship and he grew up in a southern baptist background so talked about the red hymn noah we were laughing oh yeah when the assemblies of god we had our own hymnal and in the catholic church no you didn't sing the choir did that and he didn't know a whole lot about catholicism so we were talking a little bit about what the background was that we were raised in and of course now that we don't believe anything near like like that but the point that i wanted to make was i didn't have any word from the lord you know that morning like okay cliff's gonna come in he's going to ask you the question now this is the time to zero in on him i mean this just opened up very naturally and because we knew him it was just a natural question that just flowed from him and so it's those kind of things you could be out on the golf course and the next thing you know somebody you know just asks you this question out of the blue um and you have the opportunity to share but you're not under any pressure so i was just to say that that is like sometimes i you know i there have been times i think the lord more than more than ever never tells me what's coming because otherwise i'd be trying to pre-program okay i'll do this this this abc and it's like he just throws in his lap okay now deal with it but it's it's spontaneous and there was there was no pressure to feel like okay man we got to get cliff saved you know let's let's get him down the roman river real quick he just had genuine questions and we were just answering them i'm sure we planted a lot of seeds and i mean we know the wealthy well enough he's been up here for dinner um at some point in time we this discussion will probably get picked up again but at least we've given him some things to really you know ruminate over and i wouldn't doubt that alex's death who had something to do with it because alex was probably like in his mid-20s you know you're not supposed to die when you're that young and that's a real shock um i'm sure that that had a certain amount with cliff of beginning to question like you know oh wow you know life really can be sure even though cliff is i think just starting 40 the whole idea when young people die and like they've never fulfilled their life um it can be a real wake-up call to say wow you know we we don't have guarantees and so i i wouldn't be surprised if that's where his whole that was that was the modus behind him asking and going in that direction uh but the one thing i wanted to ask you mike from the very beginning we're talking and i'm going to say i wrote this down is it safe to assume that the process of transformation we go through is not limited to this time span that we are here on earth because there always seems to be the pressure of like you got to fulfill your destiny while you're in with whatever this window of time is that you're here and if you miss it the rug gets pulled out from under you in heaven it's like you get the big thumbs down that somehow and that's then becomes the pressure i've got to be everything that god called me to be and i'm going to have to kill myself doing it well by golly i'll accomplish it is it safe to say that the transition process continues on absolutely yeah i mean in a sense when you go into the realm of heaven you don't know everything you know it's like just like whenever i've stepped in the realm of i've learned things by stepping into that realm i didn't get programmed with instant knowledge of everything and the same when someone dies like if you think of the cloud of witnesses and you got them mentioned from the old testament they died without having the fulfillment of the promises it says they died in faith but they hadn't seen the fulfillment well that indication was there is a fulfillment beyond and there's also a destiny beyond i mean those people who are part of the cloud of witnesses now are they not fulfilling their destiny if they're if if they weren't they wouldn't be part of something was that so there's an ongoing aspect of our destiny and in the ages to come wherever that leads us it doesn't end and we don't sit on a cloud plucking our heart singing nice songs to jesus you know there's an ongoing thing that they are the church enrolled in heaven we are the church or the ecclesia on earth we're still part of the same kingdom purposes we're just doing it in different places and in different realms if you like but we still will continue and you know this is why some people i think use fear to try and get people to do everything in this life because they think they're going to be judged on their works and assigned a place either close or far away from the father on the basis of that and they can't get any closer because they're stuck oh no you're in the outer courts therefore you're stuck there for eternity tough luck you should have got on and done some more stuff here to get you in the inner court it isn't like that it isn't a you're in the outer courts and you stay there yes there are those who enter heaven in a very soulish state and they even their expression of heaven and even their visions of heaven can be very soulish you know because i've heard people talk about heaven in a way that i have never ever seen or encountered and i think it's almost like their wish you know but god will comply with that to a degree to help us come into the next stage or whatever it might be you know and i feel that some of the teaching that has been there you know well you're only the 30-fold and you're the 60-fold and you're the 90-fold well tough luck well well that's a bit predestined and gives us no room if god predestined that i was only going to be 30-fold that means i can't be anything more now if you did that then you would have fulfilled your purpose if you're if you were predestined to be 30 fold and you hit that well hey you you were 100 right you were but then does god want to limit us to anything less than the fullness of what he intends and i'm not saying we don't have things which are different from one another and in that illustration yes some people would have 90 things some people say but not in the sense of that is where they're going to get stuck in their reward system and therefore they're going to be only 30 close to god and some people are going to be 90 close to god relationship with every person is the same unlimited limitless and free and isn't based on a reward system i'm not saying that there aren't some responsibilities that you are given based on some of what you have matured but that doesn't mean maturity ends at physical death or translation into heaven is is enoch the same being that he was when he was walking on earth when he was not walking on earth no he's he's changed over the time because he's learned more and more from his relationship with walking with god it didn't suddenly stop or it didn't suddenly he knows everything it's relationship always relationship because god is relational so it goes on and that relationship continues to grow and mature and develop and therefore yeah we don't have to be pressured to think oh i've got to do everything that doesn't mean we should be slack and just oh well great i won't bother do anything because it's the motive of the heart the motive of the heart is what the issue is and of course if i'm just saying great if it doesn't matter what happens here well i won't bother i'll just go and you know do the prodigal son bit and you know whine women and song or whatever and whatever you know and that's then you know at some point i probably come to the realization that i'm living selfishly you know and that's not a good thing um but from god's perspective he is working with us in whatever realm we are in in a process of bringing us to maturity and if we don't get to totally fulfill that here for whatever reason we still get to continue it there otherwise what happens to all those children and babies and miscarriages and aborted babies that are in heaven right now they never got a chance to do anything here on earth so did they have an earthly destiny that wasn't fulfilled or do they just have a heavenly aspect of that destiny or are they still going to be involved in an earthly sense in some way i don't know but i'm aware that they're definitely being prepared for something and for things and they don't feel in any way less than us and i don't think anyone should that's the point you know we just got to be careful we're not pressured into anything really you know obviously going out playing golf i mean the evangelical thing and you know and some people get so much into this it's like oh i slice the ball onto the other fairway it must mean i need to preach the gospel to that guy who's walking up the other fairway i literally that's how that's how programmed some people would be god is sovereign so he must have wanted me to slice the ball over there because he must have a mission for me over on the other fairway so i'll hang around there over until someone comes close enough to talk to them and then i'll try and ram god down their throat i mean literally a lot of people live their lives that way they don't enjoy life at all they're just pressured into thinking everything must be a sovereign act of god that they need to make sure they fulfill you know and it's like it's not really like that you know you know if i've sliced the ball it's because my grip opened up or my stance you know it's like that's the reason i did it there was no divine thing that god wanted me to slice the ball or hook the ball or anything else it's down to me you know you know i can't pray that god will help me keep it straight either you know because really he's not that bothered whether i hit it straight down the middle or not he will be very happy that i'm happy when i hit it straight down the middle and when i get a birdie or whatever he he rejoices when will he rejoice you know he rejoices with me when my football team win but he didn't make them win and he wouldn't answer the prayers if i wanted to make them win either you know but he rejoices but he would also rejoice or commiserate with the opposite person who supported the other team because he's with us in life you know it is a a life which is there to be lived to the full to be enjoyed to the full and not to be in any way restricted by any system of belief which controls us you know and we've got to become you know becoming more and more free from that so i definitely believe there is this is not the end physical death is not the end it's also not the beginning you know it's just another phase of life in which we enter into another opportunity to embrace our relationship with god and what that means you know in any way you know i don't see you know i've never really seen the cloud of witnesses a partying it up in one sense and not being bothered about what's going on on earth or or in one sense also frantically worried and anxious about anything they just seem to be living at peace but they're very actively involved but in a way which isn't driven or pressured or that they feel they've got some destiny they've got to fulfill in heaven so they better do it i think there is a sense where there is some changes that take place when we cross the veil in that way but also take place whenever we cross the veil to bring us into an alignment with how god thinks because we're closer to him and closer to his heart you know rather than at a distance and of course every religious thing tries to keep us at a distance yeah all right anyone else got anything they want to talk about hi mike this is michelle uh this has been very liberating uh because you know you were talking earlier about you know coming who had the conformity into what father wants us to be and not what others think we should look like and that's always been a struggle for me i was always trying to be like somebody else and fighting the person that god created me so now i'm stepping more into that and also you're mentioning um you know someone that's evangelist they they don't think anybody's saved if they're not going out you know preaching the gospel and you know that kind of thing there's all these works based you know mentality it's just so liberating i don't have to do all that just everything that i'm doing in my personal life i thought i should be doing something else and then the lord just said just rest because he knows he knows what i'm doing i don't have to look like anybody else yep totally yeah no absolutely it is such a liberating um thing to come into that state of being state of mind consciousness that we can just learn to be you know and everything flows from that it really does but it takes a little bit of a journey to get there and there's a lot of de-programming that goes on along the way to remove us from those mindsets belief systems that will restrict us and hold us to any pattern other than what he wants us he's made us to be you know and i can only really know who i am in relationship to him i can never get it from my relationship to the world it has is seen in the mirror of his face you know therefore i have to get close enough to see or observe or engage his face to see the thoughts that he has about me which will transform me [Music] it's my front doorbell i forgot to turn my phone off honestly okay anyone else got anything they wanna go bad well i don't wanna hog but since nobody said anything your thoughts on the baptism of the holy ghost in tongues of course that would relate to my pentecostal background yeah we had an extreme perspective that unless you are acts 2 38 baptized in jesus name and baptized in the holy ghost and tongues you're not born again obviously i've moved far away from that yeah and i look at a person you know i'm an inclusionist so i see all in god and god in all however i hear very little uh be it among uh the mystical or be among even those in inclusion about the baptism in the spirit in tongues i do yet believe that it brings you into a greater sense of the reality of the presence of god in this immersion into the realm and the spirit and the fullness as i would say thereof that enables you to have a greater sense of the presence of god communion with god etc so i think it's important and i hear very little about it i i'm aware that we are all on our journey and god will lead us i would also think by the time you are ascending probably most people that are involved in that movement probably have come into the baptism in the spirit but give me your thoughts yeah i i think that's probably true i think for me you know i got baptized in the spirit in 1986 i think um and you know the early part of the engaging god program has a lot about tongues and how tongues can be used to to edify build up the spirit help us do more things at once because we can think in tongues pray in tongues as well as you know doing other things and it was part of i guess my journey of learning to activate my spirit um so that i could be you know really and now i pray in tongues probably every day but not because i ever decide to i just find that's i do so i wake up sometimes and i'm praying in tongues i you know i never decided to but my spirit is active because i my spirit is now trained to discern and therefore i think my spirit is actually communicating back to me in that language to indicate hey there's something here you need to look into that's how i've come to see it what i would say is i would move away from the now you have to go to the next stage to the next stage to the next stage to the next stage you get you pray the prayer you get born again you then get baptized in water then you get baptized in the spirit a that isn't even biblical because you know cornelius and his household were baptized in the spirit before they got baptized in water as was paul you know and as were others so it's not a it's not a fixed thing and i think it became a little bit like a progression this is what you do then you do this and that now you're ready for this and to me i've always believed that everyone is ready to be fully baptized in the spirit in a sense when they first just engage god and there should be a experience that goes along with it which is life-changing and transforming and should release the gifts whatever and i think i bel i think some systems and particularly i was never in a pentecostal church but i would had been involved obviously with charismatic churches from in the charismatic setting was it was always a little bit of a progression first we're going to get you baptized in water and then we're going to get be baptized in the spirit of and you know so you're speaking tongues and all of that and i and i think we've i've certainly moved away from making it rigid in any way so i would want to inc help people to engage with god relationally and let him bring that about because the spirit is the teacher anyway so why do we want to put a time scale or a thing on it when i think god is quite capable of doing that himself and therefore if he wants everyone to be baptized in the spirit even if they don't know the term it will come about out of the relationship and process that he goes and it may be you know of all the mystical people that are engaged with probably most of them would say that they have had some sort of experience like that in their lives but that was always before they came into a mystical experience so that was their journey well what happens if someone is born into a mystical experience maybe tongues won't be such a thing for them because they already face to face with god and are having encounters and their spirit is already active in that so i wouldn't want to i wouldn't want to put any fix rigid thing everyone's journeys different and if god chooses to do that with some and not with others he's entitled to do that you know there's one lady i do know who's never spoken in tongues but she's very clearly had encounters with the spirit but whether her not speaking in tongues is a blockage on her side or whether god isn't that bothered and it really hasn't stopped her engaging heaven in any way maybe we just need to i guess relax a little bit about it and not try and not try and put it in any order or make it a condition of anything because i wouldn't want to condition it and say well you can't do this unless you've had this or this happens or that's the order you know because some people have engaged heaven and they've never even been baptized in water you know and it's like oh well well that can't be right surely you well actually i mean i was i was with a group up in maryland um and we went up into i think uh virginia up into the mat hills or whatever up in you know the hills of virginia and in a cabin and they had a it was a jacuzzi was on the deck there the cabin and i was just talking about the jacuzzi and sort of baptism sort of came up and none of them had been baptized they were all students none of them had ever been baptized i think maybe other than one i think and i was like oh that's really interesting you know and then they sort of and we just said i didn't sort of pressurize them or anything then they were like well what what is water out there can we be baptized in the jacuzzi and i'm saying well yeah of course you can why not if that's what you'd like to do um but they'd all been encountering heaven before that so for god that wasn't such a big deal for them they were still saved because they were saved anyway you know what i mean so i think we tend to sort of maybe put order on things that are not necessarily there for god and there may be things that in people's journey have more importance than others you know my baptism in water experience when i was 16 i think 16 17 um was obedience you know when i saw it in the bible you know i never really had a powerful encounter with it but i then had powerful encounters that were associated with being resurrected and having a new life in christ later um i just didn't have the revelation when i got dunked in the water but i had the experiences later and i think i think it's not it's not either or is every and all and whichever way god wants to do it but i think it should i would if i was going to put anything on it i would say it should come as a complete package when we just engage with god and we realize come to a realization that god is already in us that should awaken us to a real experience and if that is a tongue's experience or a spiritual gift experience which activates our spirit great you know um but i wouldn't want to sort of be holding people off that until something else had happened or something else would happen and again i think the workspace mentality what i saw in the charismatic thing was you know there are stages and you have to mature before god is really going to entrust you with this yet you know and actually i think there is that is not true you know and i saw people and then i used to encourage people like when we prayed for them to experience god i had an expectation that they were going to get everything they needed you know so i would be encouraging them in that receiving the spirit in fullness or the power from on high or the other aspects of it day one without the need to oh well you know you've got to prove earn this by whatever you're doing by you know doing your course foundation course or whatever which we we had a foundation course and it included baptism in border and baptism the spirit in it and of course you got you teach it linearly because it's like it comes along at different parts in the course and therefore i think people thought oh well until i get to this part of the course i'm not going to need to be baptizing water or baptize in the spirit you know and i think that can be the way we frame things just because that's how our stream does it or how our group does it and actually for god he's not really going to be conformed to our constraints um and i think it should really be more flexible but every experience is to bring our spirit into active life abundant active life you know and so yeah i still speak in tongues but i don't do it like i would have done you know well i need to pray in tungsten i need to hear god i need to pray in tongues because you know that that whole dimension is you know my spirit seems to decide when i vocalize anything rather than my soul now because it's not a soul it's never for me seemingly a soul choice i'm aware of doing it rather than choosing to do it yeah okay all right all right i'm going to leave it there nice seeing you all today have a good rest of your day keep safe

Channel: Mike Parsons

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Id: BIu3BCnzEkU

Length: 68min 28sec (4108 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 09 2021