-Hello, everyone. Today is Thursday, June
4, 2020. And I'd like to start off by thanking each and every one of you for taking the time
out of your busy schedules to tune in today. I like to thank University of Baltimore's College
of Arts and Sciences, and some serious sincere thanks to Professor Davis who's head the head
of the history department, Professor Hollimon and Professor Cotton from the Legal Studies
Department for helping me facilitate the cart this conversation today. Welcome to the discussion
about the death of George Floyd, race and civil unrest in America. Before we get started, I want
to lay out some house rules or Zoom etiquette for everyone. We want this event to be a healthy
and safe space for all people to intellectually share thoughts, feelings, ideas, and to ask
or answer any questions equally. This is not a this is not a debate and nor is it a competition
so don't feel like your ideas, you know, don't feel like it's a competition--I had the best
argument or the best idea anyway--it's just a space for people to express ideas and feelings.
And people will have different ideas or perspectives from yours. And we must respect one another
and simply listen. This is an educational opportunity for all of us, professors, students,
staff, everybody. One person will speak at a time, you must use the hand raised tool to
get a chance to speak. Each person will have one minute, 30 seconds to speak or to ask
a question. Professor Hollimon, I will be keeping track of time. When you are given
a chance to speak one of the co-hosts will unmute your mic for you. And if you unmute your mic, out of turn, you
will be given one warning and the next time you will be removed from the discussion. You
may ask questions anonymously via the chat box. You may not share yourself screen or
share any files, you may not disrespect or violate one another or any other person in
any way. And you may not violate any of the UB codes of conduct. And if you do, you will
be removed from the discussion. Does anyone have any questions about the house
rules? All right. So for those who do not know me,
I'm your emcee. I'm Ashlyn Woods. I helped organize this symposium and I'm happy to be here to
share this moment with you. I'm an I'm a senior here at UB. My major is Jurisprudence with
a concentration in the Early-Entry to Law School program. I'm a senator in SGA and I
work in the Campus Pantry under the Rosenberg Center for Student Involvement. I'm a 2020-2021
Newman Civic Fellow. I'm a Fannie Angelos outside awardee and a very passionate lover
of history and legal studies. Without further ado, I'll let my co-hosts introduce themselves
and then we'll begin. -Hi, everyone. I'm Professor Cotton. I teach
in Legal Studies program along with Professor Hollimon, who you'll meet a couple minutes. And
I'm really here to listen. Tha's all I have to say. -Hi, everyone, I'm Professor Davis in the
history program. I am also here to listen, I teach courses on African American History,
civil rights, also a course on prisons and police in US history. I'm interested in this,
of course, as a citizen, as a human being and also as a researcher. I've been working on
a book on the history of the relationship between police and civil rights activists
in the 60s, so this is very interesting. -Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Justin
Hollimon, I'm professor at University of Baltimore, but I'm also a practicing attorney. I was
a public defender for three years. And those that know anything about criminal justice
know that public defenders are the frontline fighters for social rights and civil rights
issues. This issue hits home especially close to me, because not only am I a professor and
an attorney, but when I leave a courtroom or leave the classroom, I'm no different than
Mr. Floyd. And that's why I'm here. -All right, thank you so, so much. I hope you
all are aware that on May 25, 2020, a 46-year-old unarmed, unarmed handcuffed black man was smothered
to death in broad daylight by three Minneapolis police officers, and another one was there
watching. Former officer Derek Chauvin was recorded kneeling on the back of Floyd's neck
for almost 9 minutes as Floyd pleaded for his life several times. Floyd screamed that he couldn't breathe several times and Chauvin remained on his neck even while bystanders
screamed and yelled for him to get off of him. Chauvin did not remove his knee until an ambulance
showed up, which was 9 minutes, almost 10 minutes later after the fact. At this point, Floyd was lifeless
and we all saw it. Luckily, you know since then, the former police officers involved
have all been charged with various degrees from second degree murder to aiding and abetting
a murder. Local and private autopsies have been conducted. And one of those have actually
confirmed that the death was a homicide, and it was caused by asphyxiation. Peaceful and
sometimes violent protests have erupted all over the world, London, Nigeria, and all over
the United States. And I'm still in shock and I'm still sad and hurting and grieving
for the loss of George Floyd. And I hope this conversation can be the beginning of change. And one thing
that makes me sick to my stomach about it is that my mom is 46 years old. And I have
a black brother and a black father. And it could have been one of them. It could have
been, you know, one of my cousins or my uncle, you know, that's how I feel about it. And
I questioning myself every day and I wonder like, Why are black people continuously
being targeted and killed and executed by police with no justice, and it just continuously
shows that like, we are traumatized by things like this, even though it may not seem like
it, but it's something that has been deeply rooted even since slavery and even you know,
to it has lasted until this day. So it's so confusing and it's so like, it's something
that it's been hard to like grapple with, because all we ever did was be black. You
know, we haven't really done anything to anyone we have not even even after slavery even after
being killed and lynched for entertainment is no justice is no is no type of reparations
or even simple acknowledgement that slavery existed and cause consequences today. So hopefully
this conversation can help bring some of those things to light and help create a cultural
change not only within UB but hopefully within Baltimore and then Maryland and then the entire
US like hopefully we can have a trickle effect over time. And I was just wondering, like,
Who Who here hasn't seen the video? I have. I have the link available for you in the chat
box. Let me know if if you can see if you can't see it, I'll just To send it to you
directly and you can watch it on your own time. Yeah, I could, I couldn't watch it.
Well, I actually forced myself to watch it. But if I didn't force myself to watch it,
um, I don't know. I don't know if I had the same passion as I do now if I didn't watch
the video. -Yeah, so, for some people what made what
made you choose to watch the video or not? Um, you can go ahead and raise your hand.
If you would like to answer that question like what made you want to ask you to watch
the video. -Hello, guys. My name is Ted and I'm a history
student here at University of Baltimore. I felt it was necessary for me to watch the
video because I felt like in this case, we were lucky to have a video. So we could have
this sitting here and clear as day and there's no refutable evidence. And I just think about
all the other cases that we had no video evidence that could have maybe has swayed the outcome
in a different way. -Anybody else who I just want to say that
I think that all white people should watch that video. It's horrifying, it's gut wrenching,
but in order to get any appreciation for the deep level of heartbreak involved here and
the cruelty it should be required watching for white people. -These are now you can go ahead and Um, so
my main reasoning for watching the video, um, first of all popped up on my Instagram
feed. And at first I was like, Oh, this is just gonna be, you know, I felt bad because
I was desensitized by how many videos I saw of like people getting arrested. But then
I saw that it was a lot of like it was a an igd TV video, and it was about nine minutes
and 30 seconds long. And the longer I watched the angry I got because I was like, why is
he? Why does he still have his his knee on his neck? And then like the video showed other
two police officers who were on his back as well and I was like, what, what is going on?
Like, this is not this this cannot be happening in America right now. So I I watched it and
I've I just got really upset. -Well for those for those people who haven't
seen the video You know, what, what are your thoughts about the situation? in general?
Like, what are what are your thoughts even though you haven't seen the video? Anybody can you know, raise your hand and,
and? -And I'll unmute you if you want to answer
that question or you can I Oh, sorry. -Well, I did watch it. But I watched it because
he looks familiar. He looks like a family member. Like most of the victims and these
type of situations. My family my father's six-five could have easily been targeted.
Just coming out of a store. So yeah, you know, one thing a lot of people do. Well, one thing
that I haven't really been hearing a lot of people discuss is George Floyd's size. He
was like a six, six, you know, he was a big man. And if you saw different videos, you
could see that it was two officers on his lower body. And it was another by like the
other one his neck but those three men took up his pretty much his entire body. He still
had he still had his legs free, but his body parts took up the size of three men. And
I was wondering, like, does anyone think that the outcome would have been different if George
Floyd was a white man and was the same size? -You can go ahead and, you know, raise your
hand if you'd like to comment on that. Start with Megan Horn. I think if he would have been
a white man, people would have been kind of like, they still would have been outraged,
but they would have outraged, more they would have been like, Well, why are they doing this?
Like he did nothing wrong. I can't believe they're doing this. This isn't part of the
training. -But in this case people tend to default to
Well, why do they do this? There had to have been a reason Look at his size, but if he's
white, they would have automatically went on the defensive and then like, no, this isn't
right. But because he's black, they want to automatically push blame onto the victim. -Thank you. Next we'll do Steven. Go ahead, I'm going to unmute your mic. -Hi, I go by my middle name, I'm Mike.
-Oh, Mike, Hi Mike.
-No, it's totally fine. I, I just cannot imagine it having turned
out the same way. Because I just can't imagine a situation. You know, the officers even being
there with that many people going so extremely in it for such a trivial matter. Just cannot
imagine would have occurred. Like if the situation would have even happened. -You can go ahead again, is Renee. Hi again.
So my take I don't think I honestly I don't think the situation want to progress as it
did for the police. Like the young man before me just said, I don't think the police would
have been in, you know, arrested him. Have you been a white man, a big white man in the
conversation would have ended in the store where it all started when he wrote the check.
And it would have been, it wouldn't have been a question of the doubt of whether or not
the check would have been valid or not. If it would have been void or not or anything
like that. I don't think the situation would have escalated to that point. And I feel and
I'm upset that it had to get to this point for people to even realize, hey, there's a
difference between the two. There is a difference. You know what I mean? That's, that's my take.
-Next we'll have Kristin. -Hey, thank you. Um, I have a question for
Professor Holliman and Professor Cotton. Do we have any information regarding statistics
or court cases that would kind of help support this idea of like, what would have happened
to him had he been white? Like do we have or or do they not exist because they would
never have gone to court? -I can answer from my personal experience.
So as I said, I was a public defender for three years in Prince George's County, Maryland.
And I can count no exaggeration, I may have had 10 clients who were not African American
in three years and I don't believe that African Americans are the only ones in Prince
George's County, driving on suspended licenses, the only ones in Prince George's County marijuana, the
only people in Prince George's County with cocaine. I mean, they're not the only ones
in that county. In the law, but you have to look at who who the police police and where
they police. And I guarantee you that the police have their attention, their mind and
their focus on minority communities. And that's why when you go to court, you see nothing
but minorities in that courtroom. That's where the police, that's where the police place
their attention on. If Mr. Floyd was a white man, the police would never been called the
check. He was trying to cash whenever been even questioned by the owner at the at the
store, that would never happen. But because Mr. Floyd was African American male attempting
to cash a check, or if money was fraudulent cash, they didn't alert authorities that would
not have never happened if he was a white man. Does that. Does that answer your question?
Question. Kristin. Do you have anything else to say? Yeah, I think it was just trying to
figure out you know, in in this reluctance complex situation when we have people issuing
counter arguments, you know, like, do we have a way to support this with data? And I guess
the data is that there is no data because white people are just not being stopped because
of all of the, the systems in place that are designed to be oppressive and discriminatory. -There there is some data, for example, drug
offenses, white people use drugs, illegal drugs, and recreational drugs, etc. as frequently
as persons of color. But the arrest rate, the imprisonment rate is vastly different.
So that as Professor Holliman said, you know, who you target is who goes into the pipeline
for the criminal justice system. So we do have statistics like that that show some kinds
of offenses are being committed in equal rates, regardless of your race. But not equal rates
when it comes to arrest and imprisonment. So there are those statistics. I just want
to jump in with saying I thought my understanding was that it was a counterfeit $20 bill. That
was the start of the whole thing. I think that's especially weird because a person can
unwittingly pass a counterfeit bill, you know, and the assumption instantly being on the
part of police, that it had to have been something that he did intentionally, and not that it
would justify even if it was, but I thought going back to a question someone has previously
I think, actually did answer this asked this question. They would never assume that a white
person who passed a counterfeit bill had done it on purpose. So that is a big difference. -And then one thing I like to add about you
know, counterfeit money, like I've worked in retail, and I've worked in restaurants
usually you check it you mark it and if it stays up the back I was in that situation
here, maybe we will never know. Next I would like to have, unmute Teddy. He had
his hand raised for a while. -Yeah, um for me the answer to that question
of whether or not it would happen if it was a white person on is clear as day if you look
at those people went to the state capitol with military style assault rifles and protesting
the fact that they had to wear masks. Then they were they were seen as peaceful protesters
and and just the complete opposite, just the complete opposite. -And someone, someone did ask a question in
the chat that I wanted to address. So, Mr. Ray McCree asks on the Eric Garner video showed
a black man being killed by a police officer in the same type of fashion. Why? response
different now? And, you know, I think that is different now. Because, um, first off,
Eric, I think I think the situations are very, very similar. I think that both in both situations,
you know, Eric Garner was unarmed. Eric Garner was not resisting arrest. He was cooperating
with police. For the most part of the time, it was also recorded the entire thing. The
entire situation was recorded. And none of the police officers were indicted for his
death. They were all acquitted, and they even said that the chokehold that they use was
illegal, so there was no justice for Eric Garner's death. And I think the response is
different now. Because we have different angles of before, during and almost after the situation
occurred. We have different angles of the video like of the situation. And also, I think
that, you know, we just can't like the same thing happened twice. So given that, you know,
Eric Garner, that situation happened, everything unfolded, and there was no justice. We saw
how that went down first. And then it happened again, in the same fashion. And I don't think
people will let it happen again. So although people are responding differently, I think
that it's just a it's a good thing that people are responding differently, because you can't
let the same thing happen. Again, in the same way, like does that make sense? Go ahead.
And do I saw your hand up and then we'll go to the sponsor. -I think what was different is that it was
eight minutes and 47 seconds that we watched, wasn't nothing that was instantaneous was
no shot. It wasn't like he was scared. It wasn't like he was pushing The guy was laying
down and was and couldn't do anything. And he held him for eight minutes, 47 seconds
on his neck. So we can't You can't deny that you can't deny that he can't say he was in
fear of his life at that moment. -Not at all. Sure, I'm being sponsored and
go in. I think the other thing at play here is that we live in a different political environment.
And there's a lot more divisiveness in the world. And we have a leader who is encouraging
that divisiveness and not bringing us together and we need to. So people need to express
their outrage and they can't be it can't be expressed in the in the legal system, because
it's all rigged at this point. -And we can jump in. So just add to that.
I think another thing that makes this situation different is that we're in the midst of a
pandemic, and the trauma related to not only be going through a pandemic, but then also
The racial and justices still going on in the midst of this pandemic. I'm not a
psychologist, I'm not a sociologist, but there's trauma already related to us being locked
down, going through this pandemic. And then doing the question is pandemic real, I realized
that this COVID-19 is affecting minority communities worse than other communities. So as a minority,
not only now that we're worried about the trauma related to preventing myself from getting
sick, but when I step outside the door now, I have to deal with police, police brutality,
police misconduct on top of that, so as a community we've already broken down to a point
because of this disease. And then we were broken down even more because of this other
disease, a police misconduct, please cruelty that it reached a breaking point where now
we can't just continue life as is and something has to change. And now that's why it's different
is what I would propose. -Next, we'll have Michael and then is, um,
I think one of the factors that make this different is the series of issues that happened
around racial injustice right around the same time. On the same day, we had Amy Cooper,
you know, calling the cops on an unarmed black man, just because he asked her to put her
dog on a leash, which is the law. And I think a month or two before that we had Breonna
Taylor. So it's a sequence of issues that happened right around the same time, though,
you know, struck people's attention and said, Oh, this has got to come to a stop. Okay. -That's when I fix. Thank you. We have nine.
Yeah, so I think one of the major differences between the Eric Garner situation and George
Floyd, especially with you speaking on on social media is that people I think are taking
the time to educate themselves and really think about the difference between police
interactions with white people versus black people. And then there are a lot of people
who I think are afraid of being called out because especially because there's a video
so it's not really up for debate, you know what happened? And it's no excuse for them
to not speak up on what's happening because it's just clears day so. -Thank you. Nice. Go ahead, say it. Um, I
think, um, since about five years ago, the unrest in Baltimore happened, as well as Ferguson
and countless other places. The people who were involved in those protests are now older
and are much capable of building a big organization around the topic and I feel like it's, it's
kind of like a result of those protests in 2015. -Yeah, there is a need. I have a question.
-I am trying to talk. I think she's in the chat.
-Okay, hold on. Let me go back. -I think has been a little slow. Okay. I'm
going to the chat. Who did you say? -Diane? She said she had had her hand up for
a few minutes. Oh, I'm sorry. Um, you can go ahead and unmute your mic. I'm sorry. -Hello. Yes, I did have my hand up. I am.
I would just want to say I didn't watch the video. You know, I couldn't watch the video.
Just hearing it. It hurt too much and I've been thinking about it a lot and I just don't
want to compound on that. But my roommate brought up a good story to me the other day
we were talking about kind of the past and I'm going to be 42 this year so this happened
like 15-20 years ago I don't even know my young 20s and it may make you change your thoughts
about me and my character but a long time ago I grew up in like wait area pa around
Pittsburgh, we were driving around in Pittsburgh It was late night. We pulled over to like
look over a bridge at something, got back in our car, I forgot to turn my lights on. We started
driving, I passed a cop he had one headlight out and I was like, Oh crap, my light turned
on. So we turned on our street and you're probably like four blocks from my house. And
my roommate looks at me and I was like, he's gonna come after us. And you know, we had
been drinking earlier that night, whatever, whatever. My room. I was like, go go go. So
I was like, Alright, and I went, and then that cop came and he was behind me and finally
I pulled over and but I I fled from the cops like I admittedly fled from the cops. pulled
over, he got a spotlight out, put a spotlight on us get your hands out of the car, put your
hands on the car, blah, blah. Okay, so I did that. He, I'm half Asian, too, so I'm not
white, whatever. But, um, he gave me a pencil test he did whatever. This man was like, I
could rescue right now for fleeing invading blah, blah, blah. He allowed me to park my
car and walk a few blocks home. My roommate was like, could you imagine if we would have
been two young black males like how differently that would have played out? He let me quit
get in my car, park it and then just walk home. So that just I mean, if you talk about
being privileged, I mean, I'm not fully white, but I grew up pretty white. That's, I think
a telling story right there. -Thank you. I think I think that is a good
example of how the system is not colorblind and how everybody has different experiences
with the law and I know that I've had weird experiences with law enforcement. Like for
example, I got pulled over by a police officer and he pulled me over because I had my earphones
in. Okay, even though I'm using the head like it's, it's a non handheld device, my earphones
in whatever. And then he's like, well, I'm sensing a bit of attitude. And I'm like, Yeah,
because I thought I was following the law. Like, how did I know that earphones were illegal?
So then I give him my license, and he comes back and he's like, Do you have another form
of ID? And I'm like, What? Like, this is my license. Like how would I do for my ID Am
I supposed to give you this not fake. I ended up having to give him my my school ID as well
which was weird because it's just like, I gave you my state license. You know, just
little things like that. Even though it's not like a it might not seem like a big deal.
It still does have a heavy In effect, we know and is even situations even more serious and
that, you know, that people experience and I thank you, I thank you Diane for sharing your
words. Um, the question that I had for Dr. Cotton and Professor Hollimon is like, aren't people
usually arrested with much less evidence? Like, we clearly see this man with his knee
and his neck and it took them, you know, a long time to really admit that this was a
murder that was filmed like he, you know, it seemed like it's taken them a long time
to really acknowledge that this man actually died. You know what I mean? -Yeah, you're absolutely right. A typical
person could get arrested on a lot less in the state of Maryland. My wife could call
the police and say I punched her in the face. The police would come to the house and I can
be walking out the house in handcuffs sitting in bottles central booking at least 24 to
40 hours waiting to get released. If my wife really sewed it up and said, I pulled out
a knife or something way more serious, I could be sitting until my trial date based on something
she just said. Whereas in instances where police are involved, they get special treatment.
Why is there special treatment? The police are an arm of the state. So you think about
the criminal justice system. If you look, think about law and order, the police make
the rest. They take the paperwork to the prosecutors and the prosecutors prosecute the case for
the police officers. Well, that creates a conflict of interest when the police officer
is the one lead could have committed a crime because they're all buddy, buddy with the prosecutors.
So how do you prevent that special treat from happening? Sadly, it's hard to prevent from
happening. But if you look at Minnesota, what happened now is they took it out of the hands
of the state prosecutor and put it into the hands of the attorney general. So that trace
the optics that it's going from buddy buddy relationship between the cops and the prosecutors
prosecute the case for them daily to a separate agency prosecuting the case that doesn't have
that day to day interaction with officers. And that's how you avoid that. But sadly,
nine times out of 10 officers will get that special relationship because they know the
right people. It's actually a question actually. -Yeah, does and you know, I even talked to
a man who was a firefighter, and he told me that he suffers from, you know, alcoholism,
and he's been drunk and driving many times and he's had gotten many DUIs, but every time
he's been pulled over, he was never really like, given any type of stern consequences
because he is a firefighter. Although the two fields are different, I think, though
those two I guess conditions are similar in that police officers get special treatment
under the law and so much Other officials like firefighters, etc, but two totally different
entities, but it's just just appalling that way, you know, I had a cousin who was taken
out of class in high school and was arrested in front of all his friends and taking down
to secure bookings had to stay there overnight. Because he had the same name as someone who
actually committed a crime there was no evidence that my cousin did the crime but you know,
basically they were still able to arrest him and pretty much almost charged him but with
no evidence and it just took them a long time to charge very well you know, for the officer
without you know, like with the video. -Anyone have a have a comment about that?
You can go ahead, Sarah. -Um, I know I was talking about this with
some other professors actually at Towson and they mentioned the law enforcement officers
Bill of Rights. And that's a special protecting protection document for officers in Maryland
that prohibits them from being prosecuted, and I haven't read it. So I was hoping that
some of the people who are more aware of the legal boundaries of this document could share
that and talk about this idea that law officers in Maryland get special protections and what
that means. -I've never heard of that particular document.
But I can tell you that throughout the country of the states have been influenced by a Supreme
Court case is Graham versus Connor, which, in which the Supreme Court they weren't even
talking about police misconduct per se, but they were talking about what constituted illegal
searches and seizures. And they articulate a very permissive standard for police officers,
the saying something along the lines of, you know, we shouldn't be guessing why they did
what they did with with the pin. This is the term they use 2020 hindsight. -And I think that there is a sense that police
officers are in a unique position, and they're entitled to special deference from the law.
I don't think there's like a statute per se that says that but but Maryland, for example,
has adopted the Supreme Court's idea that you really shouldn't be second guessing officers
with 2020 hindsight. -Next, we have a Michael then Sarah, then
Diana.
-Oh, When you say what should we do now, do you mean as individuals? Or do you
mean as like policy makers and people in power? I'm shooting for both. I feel like each of
us can do things on a micro level. And there are also other individuals have the power
to make change on a macro level. And I just was wondering like, what are people suggestions
what I would have some ideas about, you know, what individuals can do and what us as a whole
community can do. -On a macro level, I think, I think I don't
want to say it's, it's too easy to be a cut, but it's not as hard as it needs to be either.
You know, I know the training time differs from state to state, but on average, it takes
like five to six months. That's a little over one college semester. That's like someone
spending one semester in law school. And then graduates to be a lawyer. So you spent about
six months in training to be a cop and then you get to carry a lethal weapon. So I think
the training needs to be more than six months and look at other things like being a hairstylist,
you know, you need about 12 to 24 months to get a hairstyling license, but then you only
need six months to carry a gun. I mean, that's really crazy. So I think the training needs
to be at least 24 months and it's, it's just too short. -I agree. would you would you be interested
in like, trying to start a movement that I guess puts pressure on those entities who
have the power to extend those training times? Yeah, definitely. Okay. No. -Sarah, we get I'm gonna unmute you. Okay.
Thank you, all for thank you for this. I'm so happy to be part of you be and to be part
of this conversation. A couple things I just wanted to add, I teach in the conflict and
negotiation program that you'd be. One is that when we found out that the cadets were
going to be coming to UB, I approached the commissioner to get permission for us to have
ongoing dialogues and a regular way with UB students and the new cadets, for the students
set up to just be able to share their experiences with the cadets so that cadets can hear what
it's like to grow up in Baltimore. And the cadets haven't done anything wrong yet, because
they're new, as far as we know, right? But if anybody would like to, maybe we can do
them now. Right? Maybe we can start to have some of those now with our cadets, right?
Because we're, they're kind of part of the UB community. I don't need to be in charge
of that. But I'm happy to help facilitate that conversation or to have you facilitate
it. But that's someone right on our own front door. The other is I'm doing a book group,
with students just to keep talking about and faculty and staff just to keep these issues.
So we're talking about it and think But how they're showing up in our lives in all different
ways and whoever said to how we can work it in our own networks. For example, today, I
just received an email from this great think tank in DC that fights for democracy and against
corruption, but it was on fighting global white supremacy globally or something, but
every panelist was white. So I suggested to them and kind of as loving way as possible,
I'm super glad you're doing this, but don't you think it's a little weird that everybody
on your panel is white? Maybe that's where we can start. So working those networks, um,
but I'm going to put my email in the chat. So if anybody would like to join the book
group, let me know. Or if you're interested in some way working on this with the police
cadet, see if we can get something started sooner. -Thank you, and I'll also put my email as
well, because I know there's a few students who are interested. And I'm just creating
that dialogue and starting just like something to get just to start some type of a forum. Diane, you can go ahead and unmute. Yeah, so I think on a micro level something we can do is any time you're in conversations or if you hear someone say something that's a little off you know speak up and say something. Something else that can be done I mean I know from my company, I work for a large company in Baltimore and we have diversity inclusion groups, we have women's groups, we have a pride group, we have all these things, so I think that that's important to get that education out there and have people talk and and talk to each other and try to recruit other people to be part of the movement so you know when you work for a company or when you graduate and start to work for a company and they don't have groups like this, maybe they can be started so that we can help to spread the word. Thank you. Uh, Dean Hartley, you can go ahead and unmute your mic. Thanks so much, I appreciate it. We had a great discussion yesterday also and some of the things that can be done, too, that I've been kind of evangelizing over the years with our students is, um, getting involved on city boards and commissions and things like the Civilian Review Board that actually does oversight of police departments. It's interesting if you look at the local level, these boards and commissions seem like things that wouldn't take an average every day so-called person that you have to be politically connected, but what's interesting is many of them go unfilled because no one volunteers for them or no one applies for them and so I've always just wanted to say and encourage people to get involved at that level I mentioned in the chat earlier that Dr. Bridal Pearson, up until very recently, led the Civilian Review Board, here in the city of Baltimore and through his courageous leadership on that commission, he took on the city, they filed a lawsuit to gain access to, essentially, secret police records of police brutality so that that Civilian Review Board could, in fact, analyze them and hold police accountable. There's amazing work being done all over and I'd just encourage that kind of involvement. One other thing that came up in our discussion yesterday, too, that was really interesting is we were talking about the idea of engaging with the police cadets, which is a great idea and making sure that we do a better job of training officers, but one of our colleagues, Professor Nader, from Criminal Justice pushed back and noted one of the big problems with police corruption and brutality is not just having well educated officers, but it's also that the culture of police departments is such that as soon as a well-trained, highly educated, ethical officer enters the force, they are then confronted with a system of institutional racism that can undue all of that work. Changing culture is terrifically hard and that is something that has to come from oversight, regulation and changing the leadership of police forces as well and frankly, breaking into the FOP and the unions, um, those are pieces of the puzzle that are very hard and are in fact, still problems. But thank you all for having this event. I wanted to just say this is terrific and thanks for giving us the opportunity to come. -No problem.
-Ashlyn, let me talk for a second. Two things I think we can do that are very simple. The first thing a lot of people put in the chat already is vote. But when we vote we want to make sure we vote for every position that's on the ballot and know who we're voting for. For example, it's easy to know voting for mayor, it's easy to know who to vote for president, They're prominent positions, you do your research. But what about the judges who are up for re-election? What about when the prosecutor is up for re-election? What do you know about those judges? What do you know about those prosecutors? Who should get, who should receive your vote? What if I told you this one judge you want to vote for blindly gave max sentences for petty drug offenses? Would that be a judge you would want to be re-elected? But when you vote, make sure you know who you're voting for. Every position on your ballot is important, not just president, not just mayor, but every single position on your ballot. The second easy thing we can do as a community to move forward is to look forward to sitting on juries. You get your jury summons and everyone looks for every way possible to get out of sitting on the jury. Just imagine you're a criminal defendant. You want a jury full of people like us who see the world differently, who don't have this racial prejudice in their mind. Not suggesting you would have to find everybody not guilty, but you're coming in with an open mind and not a mind clouded by prejudice. If I can have a jury full of people like you guys who see the world as it is and without that guise of prejudice, I think that would change the system, so we change the prosecutors, we change the judges and we look forward to jury duty. And we vote intelligently. Do all those things together and I think we can have an impact on the system. One thing I do want to add before we close out, or we can continue to talk for a little longer maybe until 5:15, is that OK with everyone? 5:15 is good. So one thing I did want to point out is a lot of white people ask me like what can I do to help? What can I do, how can I stop racism? And the thing is, I appreciate those questions because racism didn't start with black people. Black people didn't go out and you know go out and say hey, yeah, colonize us. Maybe they did. I wasn't there. But you know the concept of racism started with white people and I think that it will take white people to end it, you know? Go into different communities and schools and teach those underprivileged people or minority students or whatever. Donate to the different organizations. Mentor as many black and brown kids as you can. One example I can give is the Fannie Angelos program through UB. Um, they primarily focus on mentoring and tutoring and prepping HBCU students for the LSAT and some of you don't know that, the LSAT is kind of discriminatory in some ways in how they ask certain questions so it prevents a lot of black and brown students who aren't equipped with the tools to prep for that test do not pass it or not do well on it. So the Fannie Angelos program gives students, gives black students those tools to be able to take that test at a low cost because financial barriers are an issue as well, so things like that are very helpful. And also, just really quick, I met a guy at the-- Pavan, what was the conference that we went to not too long ago, the Civic Fellows...
-It was the SLICE conference. Uh, Anthony's on here, he'll know the full acronym.
-Service Learning and Civic Engagement Conference -So I went to that conference and I met a guy who was a professor at the University of D.C. and he was a white man and he made this classrooms, he specifically built his classrooms for the sake of mentoring black students, so what he would do is, like he would have a capstone class. Each and every student would have to take a capstone class. And his class was primarily, had 5 or 6 students, all black and he would mentor them, they would give them skills, he would give them tools, he would take them to conferences, he would take them to meetings, pretty much use his privilege to expose them to a world, to connections that they would otherwise not have connections to. So I think that is really powerful and important and it doesn't exclude any other race. It doesn't exclude anybody else. Instead, it enhances different resources that one person can pass on to another person. and another person can pass on to that person so it's just a trickle effect. And I wanted to get that out there and if you want to pass that message on to other people, feel free. But it's something that can help short term and long term. Does anyone have any questions or comments before we close out? -I was going to say something just quickly, which is we have a very, very diverse campus. I think we're, in some ways, the most diverse campus in the state. But I think, one thing that I'm hopeful for is that on our campus we can open up a dialogue around anti-racism and using that term. I think that's been a term that a lot of people on our campus have been afraid to use. I think diversity and inclusion is a good start, but I think there's a lot of people in the past 10-15 years who are saying diversity is just the first step. We actually have to name the problem of racism and especially we, white people, have to take a big step forward to say we're going to commit ourselves to combating this problem. We're going to try to talk to other white people to stop doing racist things. We're going to try to check ourselves when we do things that may be racist. Maybe implicit bias. But I'm hopeful we can start opening up that dialogue on our campus because it's something we need to be talking about more. And that could be a student group, there's a group called Showing up for Racial Justice. It's a national group that has chapters, but I think Sarah Gilchrist is right that there's room for that. -Thank you, Dr. Davis. Professor Hudgins? -Hi, I think somebody mentioned in the chat that there's going to be a discussion after this about a group, is that the case? -Uh, yes. -So is that a different Zoom invite? -Um, so if anyone is interested in being part of that discussion, we will, email me and then we'll create the Zoom, or a group chat, or whatever we choose to use as our form of communication. So email me, I'll put everyone in a group chat and then we can have a Zoom conversation if that's OK. And my email is Ashlyn.woods@ubalt.edu. Thank you, everyone. Does anyone have anything else? We have a few more minutes. Make sure you all take my favorite professors' classes next semester, online, off line. Everything. -I have a question for everybody. If anyone was able to see the live stream of George Floyd's memorial/funeral service. Apparently Fox News was streaming it today. It was on at like 2 o'clock. That was when I woke up and when I got on this call it was still going. They had a moment of silence that lasted for 8 minutes and 46 seconds which was to represent how long, um, the officer had his knee on his neck. I just wanted to see if anyone else had to had a chance to watch it.
-Yeah, I did. -Yeah, actually didn't see it, but Professor Kassner said it was a really nice event, very powerful. Yeah, I had a question. I wanted to see if anyone got a chance to catch to catch the, um, he's a really prominent figure in the, yes, Al Sharpton. Thank you, Ted. That's who I wanted to catch. Thank yo. -Does anyone have a link to the memorial? You can just drop it into the chat if you do. And then we will hear from Zoe. -Hi, I just wanted to say thank you so much again for hosting this and for this conversation. Just going back to the discussion on things that we can do on an individual level something that I've been thinking a lot about, has been skill-based volunteering, so how can we use our professions or what we're learning in school to be able to use those skills. So I'm in the design program, the interaction design program here so I've been thinking a lot about how can I use the skills that I'm learning to support this so I'm always looking for extra resources about skilled-based volunteering. I know a couple of organizations but if anyone has any resources on that, I'd be really interested to hear about them. -Ok, well I'll start by including you in the group email and I'm sure you have skills that would be able to help move something forward. I mean everybody has their own individual skills and tools that they can contribute. -That would be great. Thank you so much for organizing this.
-No problem. Um, ok. Does everyone have my email or have any questions? Because I've already been getting emails, so it seems like it's going to start immediately. Alright, welI thank you everyone for coming. I really, really, really appreciate it. I hope this helped many people start to process what's been going on and heal from what's been happening so I thank you. If you have any questions about anything, feel free to email me or any of the professors who helped facilitate: Professor Hollimon, Professor Davis, or Professor Cotton. They will email you immediately. They will respond right back. Alright. Thanks everybody. Thanks so, so much. Have a great rest of the day.
