Modern Times: Camille Paglia & Jordan B Peterson

I've really been trying to understand the underlying psychology of postmodernism and its relationship with neo-Marxism, and then the spread of that into the universities and the effect on the culture. And what I would like to start with is a description of your understanding of that, because I've presented to the people who are listening to me my understanding of it. But I interviewed Stephen Hicks recently, and he wrote an interesting book called "Explaining Postmodernism," which I liked quite a bit. It's been criticized for being too right-wing, although I don't think he's right-wing at all. I think maybe you could characterize him as middle-of-the-road conservative, but I would say he's more like a classic liberal. But I'm really curious about your views about, well, what— what Postmodernism is first of all. I know you've— you've identified it with the— with the general tricksters Derrida and Lacan and Foucault. And Foucault in particular you've talked about. But I'd like to know what you think about postmodernism and also why you think it's been so attractive to people. Well, my explanation is that there is no authentic 1960s point of view in any of the elite universities, but rather the most liberated minds of my generation of 1960 did not go on to graduate school. I witnessed this with my own eyes. I saw genuine Marxists, okay, at my college, which was the State University of New York at Binghamton, upstate New York, Harpur College, which had a huge cohort of very radical downstate New York Jews, okay, who— In fact, Harpur used to be called Berkeley East. I saw genuine passionate Marxists with my own eyes. They were not word choppers. They were not snide postmodernists, right? They were in-your-face aggressive. They used the language of the people. They had a populist and energy, okay? They dressed working class. They were nonmaterialistic, okay? These are people who lived by their own convictions. They were against the graduate schools, all right? When I— When I, uh, went on to graduate school, and it became known that I was going to go to Yale, I was confronted by a leader of the radicals on campus, in broad daylight in front of everyone, who denounced me for— he said, "Grad school is not where it's happening. You don't— You don't do that. If you have to go to graduate school you should go to Buffalo." Now, I had applied to SUNY Buffalo, because the great leftist critic Leslie Fiedler was there, who had a huge impact on me. He's practically created identity politics, but without its present distortions, all right? And Norman Holland, the psychoanalytic critic was there. I would have been very happy to have gone on to Buffalo, but I needed the library at Yale, so I continued on to Yale. There were no radicals in the graduate schools, okay, from 1968 to '72, when i was there. Only one radical, Todd Gitlin, who went on to have a career success, okay? The actual radicals of the 1960s, okay, either went off— dropped out of college, or went off to create communes, right, or they were taking acid and destroyed their brains. Now, I have also written about that, the destruction of the minds, okay, of the most talented members of my generation through LSD. It was going on all around me, right? So, what's happened is the actual legacy of the '60s got truncated. The idea that these post-structuralists and postmodernists are heirs of the 1960s revolution is an absolute crock, okay? What they represent, as Foucault shows— Foucault said, okay, that the biggest influence on his thinking, okay, was Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot," okay, which was a post-World-War-II play, written in Paris, that was about the disillusionment and nihilism experienced after Hitler went through, occupied France, right, and all of Europe was in ruins. It had nothing to do with what— "Waiting for Godot" has nothing to do with the authentic legacy of the 1960s, which was about genuine multiculturalism, a movement toward India, toward Hinduism, a transformation of consciousness through psychedelics, which I did not take, but which I identify with totally through the music, etc., all right? It was a turn toward the body. It was a turn towards sensory experience, okay? Not this "word-chopping" thing, and this, like, cynical removal from actual experience, all right? That French import, okay, came in, okay, to the graduate schools. It did not affect any genuine 1960s person. The real 1960s revolution was about Jung. It was about a way of seeing the cosmos in mythological terms, all right? And the Jungian contribution went on into the New Age movement of the 1970s, aside from the universities, all right? So, who took over the universities were these careerists, okay? I saw them with my own eyes. I saw what happened. I saw— I was at Yale when Derrida was being shipped over, okay, to address the, uh, you know, the students— the grad students and the faculty. And I said to a fellow student, after hearing one of these guys speak— It wasn't Derrida. It was another one of the theorists. I said, "They are like high priests murmuring to each other." All right? This was an elitist form from the start, okay? It was not progressive. It was not revolutionary. It was reactionary. It was a desperate attempt to hold on to what had happened before the 1960s sensory revolution. But this postmodernist thing, okay, this trashing, okay, of the text, this— this encouragement, okay, of a superior and destructive attitude toward the work of art— We're going through it, okay, primly, with red pen in hand, finding all the evidence of sexism, check, racism, check, homophobia, check. That is not the empathic, emotional, okay, sensory-based, okay, revolution of the 1960s, right? I am sick and tired of these people claiming any kind of mantle from the 1960s. They're frauds. These people are— What happened in the 1970s was a collapse of the job market in academia, okay? All of a sudden, jobs were scarce, and this thing was there, the new and improved and shiny thing, okay, to be a theorist. And people seized on it, okay? It was institutionalized, all right? And it's an enormous betrayal of the 1960s. Okay so that- You touched on this idea of "the destruction of the work of art". You know, and one of the things I really liked about reading Nietzsche was his discussion of "ressentiment" right? -of resentment and it seems to me that tremendous amount of the motive power that drives the postmodernist- let's call It- it's not a revolution, uh- transformation seems to me to be driven by resentment about virtually anything that has any, well, what would you say... any merit of competence or aesthetic quality, and I don't know if that's- It seems to me that that's partly rooted in the academic's disdain for the business world, which I think is driven by their relative economic inequality, because most people who are as intelligent as academics are, from a pure IQ point of view, make more money in the private sphere, and so I think that drives some of it. But there also seems to be this- There's a destruction, an aim for destruction of the aesthetic quality of the literary or artistic work, its reduction to nothing but some kind of power game, and then surrounding that, the reduction of *everything* to something that approximates a power game, which I can't help but identifying with jealousy and resentment as a fundamental motivator. Does that seem reasonable to you? These professors who allege that art is nothing but an ideological movement by one elite, against the- against another group, these people are Philistines, okay? They're Philistines. They're Middlebrow, hopelessly Middlebrow. They have no sense of beauty. They have no sense of the aesthetic. Now, Marxism does indeed assert this, but Marxism tries to reconfigure the universe in terms of materialism. It sees- It does not recognize any kind of spiritual dimension. Now, I'm an atheist, but i see the great world religions as enormous works of art, as the best way to understand the universe and a man's place in there. I find them enormously moving. They're like enormous poems, right? And what I have called for, the true revolution, okay, would have been to make the core curriculum of the world education, the *world*, okay, the great religions of the world. I feel that is the only way to achieve an understanding, and it's also a way to present the aesthetic, because i feel that that that the real sixties vision was about exultation, elevation, cosmic consciousness, okay? All of these things were rejected by these midgets, okay, intellectual midgets who seized onto Lacan, Derrida and Foucault. It's a- my career has been in the art school, my entire career, beginning at Bennington college. So I represent a challenge to this from the perspective of Art. It is an absolute nonsense, okay, as post-Structuralism maintains, that reality is mediated by language, by words. Everything that we can know, including gender. It is absolutely madness, because I'm teaching students whose majors are ceramics, ok, or dance, or who are jazz musicians, who understand reality in terms of the body, its sensory activation. So they- See, what happened was something was going on in the art world as well. I identify With Andy Warhol in pop art, okay? That was what was going on during my years in college. Everything about Andy Warhol was like, "Wow! Admiration! Wow!" What happened immediately after that in the arts, 1970's okay, was this collapse into a snide sort of post-Modernism also. This happened in the art world, and it was an utter misunderstanding of culture, it seems to me, by that movement in the art World. That Is, oppositional art, in my view, is dead, okay? -and what post-Modernism is, is a pathetic attempt to continue the old heroism of the Avant-garde. The Avant-garde was genuinely heroic from the early 19th Century, okay? We're talking about, you know, the corbeil, the realists, you know? We're talking about Monet and the Impressionists, people who have genuinely suffered for their radical ideas, and their innovations and so on, going right down to Picasso, and down to Jackson Pollock, who like was- who truly suffered for, you know, for his art. It was only after his death, okay, that suddenly the market was created for abstract art. Pop art killed The Avant-garde. The idea that the Avant-garde continues is an absolute delusion of the contemporary art world, which feels that it must attack, attack, attack- challenge, okay, the simplistic beliefs of the hoi polloi, okay? It's somehow the order- What? Excuse me, okay? From The Moment, okay, Andy Warhol went through and embraced the popular media, instead of having the opposition to it that serious artists have had, that was the end of Oppositional art, okay? So, we've been going on now for 50 years: the post-modernism and academes hand-in-hand with the stupidity and infantilism that masquerades as, you know, as important art galleries everywhere, this incredible, incredible, you know, its mechanism of contemporary art, pushing things that are so hopelessly derivative, and with this idea that, once again, that the art world somehow superior view of reality, Authentic Leftism Is populist, okay? It is based in working-class style, working-class language, working-class direct emotion, in an openness and brusqueness of speech, okay? -not this fancy, contorted jargon of the pseudo-leftist of academe, who are frauds. These people who manage to rise to the top at Berkeley, at Harvard, At Princeton, okay? How many of these people are radical? They are career people. They're corporate types, okay, who succeeded in- They *love* the institutional context. They know how to manipulate the bureaucracy, which has totally invaded and usurped academe everywhere, okay? These people are company-players. They could have done well in any field, okay? They love to sit on endless committees. They love bureaucratic regulation, and so on. There's not- Not one *Leftist* in American academia raised his or her voice against obscene growth of tuition costs, which have bankrupted a whole generation of young people. Not one voice to challenge that invasion by the bureaucrats, okay, absolute fascist bureaucrats, okay, with- who had a- They're like, uh, cancerous, okay? There's so many of them, the faculty have completely lost any power in American Academia, okay? It's a scandal what has happened. I mean- And they deserve the present servitude that they're in right now, because they never protested, okay? When I- My first job at Bennington college, 1976 I was there, when there was an uprising by the faculty against encroachment by the board of trustees and the president, and It was a huge thing. It Was reported on The New York Times and so on and we pushed that president out and and there's not been a single uprising of that kind against encroachment by the trustees and by the administrations, and all these decades, passive slaves- Slaves! They *deserve* their slavery. Yep, I couldn't agree more. I've thought the same thing about university professors for a long time. is that they get exactly what they deserve because they never stand up and say, "no," and the fact that- In the United States it's not quite as bad in Canada, i wouldn't say, but the fact that the students have been essentially handed a bill of indentured servitude here for their student loans is absolutely beyond comprehension. You know, it seems to me that the bureaucracy has basically conspired to determine how to pick the pockets of The Students future earnings right and They do that By offering them an Extended adolescence With no quality control something Like That so it's a real Bargain with the devil and Antle the abandonment of any Kind of Education Actually in history and culture All right Think it's gone Along With It that is the Transformation into a cafeteria Kind of a Menu okay we can Pick This course or that Course of This course without any Kind of Guidance From the University about A central core curriculum That teaches you history and Chronology and Introduces you to the basics Because Oh yeah because our professors are such prima donnas they can Only teach in their little areas so we have this total Fragmentation okay the Great Art History Survey Courses are being abandoned Instead of Lincoln Because Why because graduate students are not trained to see the great Narratives or the net Wheel Because we are taught Now that Narratives are false okay so That's another issue that i'd like to bring up Because One of The Things i cannot figure out is the alliance between the post modernists and the Neo-Marxists i can't Understand The Causal relationship There Because the Tell me if you disagree with This okay because I'm a Psychologist not a Sociologist and so I'm dabbling in things that are outside of My Field Of expertise and There Is some danger in that but the center The Central post Modernist claim Seems to me that Because There's a Near infinite Number of Ways to interpret a complex set of Phenomena Which Which Actually happens to be the case That You can't make a case That Any of Those Modes of Interpretation are canonical and so if They're not canonical If that and if That Canonical Element Isn't Based in some Kind of Reality Then It Serves some Other Master and so the Master that it Hypothetically Serves for The post Modernists is nothing But Power Because That Seems to be everything that They believe in they don't believe in Competence They don't believe in Authority They don't Seem to believe in an objective World Because Everything is language mediated so it's an extraordinarily Cynical perspective That That Because There's an infinite Number of interpretations none of Them are canonical You can attribute It everything to power and dominance okay so that Does that Seem like a Reasonable Summary of the Okay it's a Radical relativism Now but the strange Thing Is despite okay and so What Goes Along with that is the demolition of Grand Narratives and so That Would Be associated for Example with The rejection of Thinkers Like Jung and Eric Norman Because of Course Their Foundational Thinkers in relationship to the idea that there are embodied grand Narratives That's never Touched but Then Despite the fact that the grand narrative is Rejected There's a Neo Marxism That's Tightly Tightly allied With Post-Modernism That Also Seems to shade Into This strange identity Politics and i don't Two Things i don't understand the Causal relationship They're like The the skeptical part of me thinks That Post-Modernism Was a Was an Intellectual its Intellectual camouflage for the continuation of the Kind of Pathological Marxism That Produced the soviet union and that has no independent existence As an Intellectual field Whatsoever but i still can't Understand How the post modernists can Make The no grand narrative claim But Then immerse Themselves in This grand narrative Without Anyone Pointing Out the evident contradictions like i don't understand that so what do you think about that well i can Only Speak about Literary professors Really and They Seemed to me almost Universally in the u.s To be very naive i they Seem to know nothing about Actual History political science or economics So it is simply an attitude They have an attitude it Marxism and become Simply a Badge By Which They telegraph Their Their Solidarity With a Working Class That They have nothing to do with i mean Easy and Generally nothing But contempt yes and the Thing Is that that the campus leftist are almost notorious for their for theirs Rather snobbish Treatment of Staff and They don't They don't Have Any rapport With The Actual Working Class members of The you Know of the infrastructure the janitor The Janitors and you Know even That's even The secretaries there's a Kind of High and Mighty Aristocracy You Know but There was Just these are People who Who have Wandered into the english department and are products of a Time When During The The new criticism may wait When history of history and Psychology had Been Excluded right i Mean My Ambition okay Was i mean i love the New criticism okay as As a Style of Textual Analysis right and and that in the new criticism had Multiple Interpretations Okay that were possible okay and then They were encouraged in fact one of the one of the Great projects was made in max of Serious 20th Century Views When you had at Least Books i Adored them in college It was about Jane Austen or about you know Emily Bronte or about Wordsworth and They were collections of alternate views of The same Thing the idea that no alternate views and there was no Relativistic the situational Kind of an interpretive approach is nonsense okay i'm but the point was we needed to restore History to literary Literary Study okay and we Needed to add Psychology to it because it was there was Great animus against freud and When i arrived in Graduate School in fact i actually went into the director of graduate studies and protested The way freud in Freudian were used as negative Terms Play in a Sneering Way by The Very Wasp professors right so we need to do Actually It Seemed Like we were moving there came in the Early 1970s Was a Great Period of Psycho Biography about Great about political Figures okay so i thought it's happening Let's Say and all of a Sudden It all Got Short-Circuited by This arrival You know of post structuralism and Post-Modernism in The in the in the 1970s right so i I feel i'm an old Historicist, okay, not a new Historicist. I having i think new Historicism is an absolute scam. right and it's like- it's just a way- it's like tweezers do you like Just a Little Bit of This a Little Bit of That a Little Bit of that you make a Little tiny Salad i guess and I'm some of This Atomized Thing Right it's supposed to Mean something it's all to me very superficial Very Cynical a Very distance i like i am i am the product okay of old historicism the German Philosopher Profession When i was a Child What Was Ejected Archeology Like I'm everything i ever think about or Say Is Related to an Enormous time scheme okay from from Antiquity and Indeed from the stone age and That is the problem with these People: They're mal-educated. The post-Modernists and Academic Marxist okay are mal educated Embarrassingly so okay they know nothing before the present. Foucault is absolutely a joke before the Enlightenment. Perhaps he might Be useful People to talk about What happens after Neoclassicism Which by the way he failed to notice okay a Lot of What he was talking about It turns Out to see be simply The Hangover of Neoclassicism okay This is how ignorant that Man Was i Mean he's he was he was not Talented as a Researcher he knew absolutely nothing okay was so you know nothing about Antiquity how can you make any Kind of large structure large mechanism you know to analyze Western culture Without Knowing about Classical Antiquity he did not see anything This Was a Person Who had no business Making Large Theoretical Statements about anything Well Maybe Part of It is that if you if you Generate an Intelligible doctrine of Radical relativism Then There is no reason to assume that there are distinctions between Categories of Knowledge or Between different Levels of quality of Knowledge right so I've seen The same Thing in in the psychology Departments although We Have the? What Would you call it the Luxury of being Bounded at Least to some degree by the Empirical Method and By Biology Right It's one of The things that Keeps most of the Branches of Psychology relatively sane you know because the Real World is Actually built into it to some degree but If you accept the Postmodernist Claim of Radical relativism then You completely demolish The idea That there our quality levels That are associated with Education Because Everything Becomes The same and That Seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable Justification for Maintaining Ignorance You Know like Foucault i Actually Found Him the most readable of the locka Derrida Foucault triad You can Read foucault i Read Madness and Civilization and a Couple of His other Books and i thought They were Painfully obvious you know the idea That Mental disorder Is in part a Social Construct Is self-Evident to anybody Who has Even a Smattering of psychiatric training i Mean That the Real Narrow medical Types tend to to think of a Mental disorder Let's Say As something That might Be Purely Biological They have a pure disease Model But Nobody's Who's a sophisticated Thinker ever Thinks That it's a Bit Partly Because medicine Is a Brand of engineering Not a brand of science Because it's associated with Health and the Diagnostic Categories are Hybrids Between Physiological Observation and socio-cultural Condition Everyone Knows That and so When i Read Madness and Civilization i thought Well That's Not radical That's Just Bloody self-Evident But Well you Know Foucault's Admirers Actually Think that he began you know the entire Turn toward a Sort of Sociological you Know Grounding of Modern Psychology to social Psychology Was well well Launched in the 1920s for Examine The Levels of Ignorance of These People Who think foucault Is so original have not Read? Durkheim They've Not Read Marks of Weber They've never Read urban Goffman okay so in other Words Through to me Everything Is Foucault Seem obvious to me because i had Read the sources from Which he was Borrowing Without attribution So i mean Again i know these People i mean i mean in some cases Knew them in graduate school People Who went on to become these These Admirers of Foucault Lacan derrida and I know What Their training Was Their training Was Purely Within the english department That's all They ever Knew They never made Any Research Outside of That Right and so the idea so they Foucault is simply This is a Mechanism It's like a Little Tiny kit by Which they can approach everything in culture and Then and then They put the contortions of language the Deliberate Labyrinth in Elitist language at The same time as pretending to be a leftist Okay this is one of the biggest Frauds Every practice so i got a Story to tell you That you Might Like Because i've Thought a lot about that use of language you know because Language can Be Used as camouflage and so, Here's the Story i think i Got this from Robert Sapolsky? So he was talking about Zebras and Zebras Of Course have stripes and hypothetically That's associated with camouflage but it's it's not a straightforward Association Because Zebras are Black and White and They're on the veldt Along With the lions the lions are camouflage Because They are grass colored But the Bloody Zebras are Black and White you can See them like 15 miles away, so ok so Biologists Go Out to study Zebras and They're Like Making notes on a Zebra and They Watch It then they look down at Their notes and then They look up but they think oh? No, no, Which zebra i was looking at so The camouflage is Actually against The Heard Because of Zebras a Herd Animal not an individual and so The Black and White stripes break Up the animal against The herd so you can't identify It so this Was a Quandary for the Biologist so they did one of Two Things One Was drive a Jeep Up to the to the zebra Herd and use a dab of Red paint and Dab the horns of the zebra or tag It with an ear tag Like he used for cattle The Lions Would Kill it So as soon as it became identifiable The Predator Yes The predators Could organize Their Hunt Around That identify about animal That's Why you know there's the old Idea That Lions and predators Take Down the Weak animals but They don't They take down the identifiable animals so That's the Thing is if you stick your Damn hand up You Get Picked off by The predators and so One of The things that Academics seem to do is congregate together and herd-Like Entities and Then They share a language right and the language Unites them and Also Keeps Them as long as They share the same set of linguistic Tools Among Themselves They're they know that there isn't anybody in the in the coterie That's going to attack them or deeds Destabilize The entire herd and that Seems to me to account for that impenetrable use of language it's it's it's Group Protection strategy and It has Absolutely nothing to do with the search for It's the Search for Security Within a System and not the desire to Expand the system But it'S to me it's Blatantly Careerist Because It Was it was about Advancement and It was also about the claim that Somehow They have Like Special expertise This is a Special Technical language no One else can Understand That Only Only a Weekend But What's absurd about It absolutely Ludicrous all Right That These People These These American Academics who are imitating the contorted language of French Translations From The French okay When Lack Call is translated into into english Right There's a Contortion There okay he's what he was trying to do in french Was to break up okay the Neoclassical Formulations That Descended From arras scene there Was something that Was going on there Was a Sabotage of The french language going on that Was? Necessary in france not Necessary in english We Have This long tradition of Poetry Going back to the shakespearean Chaucer We Have We Have our own language? Far more Vital Than That Than the french oh yeah the french constrain Their language all The time but my dear? Facility in Amateurism okay of American Academics trying to imitate okay a Chance a chinois okay When like Costumes something in france that is Actually not Necessary and Indeed wrong to be doing in english right the Other Cynical Abandonment okay of the Great tradition of you Know of the english Departments i and iii i felt That the true Radicalism Was not about adding on other Departments okay so we have African-American Studies and You Know and and and Women's studies and so on the true radicalism would have Been Just to Shatter The Departmental structure That's What i wanted i feel that Was the authentic revolutionary Nineteen Sixties Thing to do right Tell It to blend all the literate literature studies studies Together okay to make Easier to make an interdisciplinary Kind of Organization you Know closer to the british Model Where a person can Pursue related Subjects Overlapping Subjects These dip These Depart Mental Models okay are were to me Totalitarian to Begin With okay separating the language into fiefdom and and and What What this did to create the english What Women's studies Department Absolutely Out of The air Just Snap Your fingers and create Women Studies the english department had taken a Century to develop okay that Way? It Was a Huge argument okay within Within Within It right and all of a Sudden to create okay A department where they politicize agenda From The start and hey by People Without any training Whatever in that Field i Mean What should Be the what Should be The parameters of The field Which Would be the requirements of that Field How about Biology okay if you're going to be discussing gender that Should Have Been a Number One requirement okay as Part of Any Women's studies department or program but no okay It Was all Hands off It Was Just the Administrators Wanted To solve a public relations problem They had a Situation with Very Few Women Faculty Nationwide at a time When the women's movement had Just started up that spotlight of Attention Was Was on them they want They Needed Women Faculty Fast They Need to do with the with the women's subject on the agenda fast right so they Just like Poof Let There be Women studies okay and Now we'll Just hire some women and usually from english Departments you know Here and there and we'll Just Throw them together you invent it you Say What it is so That's Why women's studies Got Frozen At a Certain Point of ideologies okay of The Early 1970s i was Already in Revolt From It okay i was a precursor in terms of My endorsement of feminism Before It before even Now was created Right But i couldn't yeah i couldn't even have a Conversation With Any of These Women They were? Hysterical about The subject of Biology They Knew nothing about Hormones and i i mean i i Probably Got in fistfights Over This They What People were so Convinced That Biology had nothing Whatever to do with gender differences see that also Seems to me to be related To the postmodern emphasis on power yeah Because There's a There's something? Terrible Underground Going on there that Is and i think this is the sort of Thing That Was Reflected in the soviet union Too and the especially in the 20s When there was this idea a Radical idea that You could Remake Human Beings Entirely Right Because They have no essential nature and so if your Fundamental Hypothesis is that nothing Exists Except Power and you believe That then that also Gives you the right in some sense to exercise Your Power at The Creation of the Kind of Humanity That Your Utopian Vision envisions and Then That has no that and that also Seems to me to justify the postmodern insistence That Everything is Only a Linguistic Construct It Again Goes down to the notion of Power Which derrida and Foucault and locke Our so bloody obsessed with and so and It Seems to me what They're trying to do is to it to take all All the potential Power for the Creation of Human Beings to Themselves Without Any Bounding Conditions? Whatsoever right There's no History There's no biology There's and and everything Is a Fluid culture that can be Manipulated at Will and so i mean in canada there are terrible arguments Right Now about Biological essentialism Let's Say And One of The Things that Happened Which Was something i objected to precisely a Year ago is that the social constructionist view of Human Identity has Been Built now into canadian law so there's an insistence That Biological sex Gender Identity Gender Expression and Sexual Proclivity Very Independently With no causal Relationship Between Any of The levels and so That's in the law and not Only is It in the law it's being Taught Everywhere it's being taught in the armed Forces it's being taught in the police it's being taught to the Elementary School Kids and the Junior High school Kids and Underneath It all i see this terrible Striving for Arbitrary Power That's associated with This Crazy utopianism and and and but i still don't Exactly Understand It i don't like i don't Understand That What seems to be the hatred that motivates It that You see bubbling Up for Example in identity Politics and and in the desire to do nothing But Let's Say Demolish The Patriarchy It Kind of Reminds me and this is something else i wanted to talk to you about you know and You're you're an Admirer of Eric Norman and all you yeah and That's the Norman Connection is Really interesting cuz i think he's a Bloody Genius i Really like the great mother Is a Great Book and I'm Really a Great Warning that. Book and also the origins and History of Consciousness Yeah But That's so interesting i Read an Essay that you wrote Yes it's always Been staggering to me that that book hasn't had the impact that it Should Have had i Mean Young Himself in the preface to that book? Wrote that that Was the book that he wished that he would have Written it's Very Much associated With Young Symbols of Transformation and It Was a Major influence on my book maps of Meaning Which Was an Attempt to Outline the universal Archetypes That are portrayed in the Kind of religious structures that you That You Put Forward but The thing that i really see happening and you can tell me what you think about this in annoyance book? Consciousness Which is Masculine symbolically Masculine for a Variety of Reasons Is is viewed as Rising Up Against The countervailing Force of Tragedy from an Underlying feminine symbolically feminine Unconsciousness Right and it's something That Can Always Be pulled back into that unconsciousness That Would Be the Microcosm of That Would be The Freudian eatable mother Familial Dynamic Where the mother is so over protective and all-Encompassing That She Interferes with the development of The competence not Only of her sons but also of her Daughters of her Children in General and It seems to me that That's the Dynamic That's being Played Out in our society Right Now is that there's this and It's it's related in some Way that i don't understand to this to this Insistence That all Forms of masculine Authority are nothing But Tyrannical Power so the Symbolic representation is Tyrannical Father With no Appreciation for the benevolent Father and Benevolent mother With no appreciation Whatsoever for the tyrannical mother right and That's that and because i thought of ideologies as Fragmentary Mythologies That's Where They Get Their Archetypal and Psychological Power Right and so in a Balanced representation You have the terrible mother and the great mother as? Knowing Been Laid Out so Nicely and You Have the terrible father and the Great Father so That'S the fact that culture bangels you have to Death well it's also? Promoting you in developing you you have to see that as balanced and then You have the heroic and Adversarial individual but in the? Postmodern World and This Seems to be something That's increasingly Seeping Out into the culture at large you have nothing but the tyrannical father? nothing But The destructive Force of masculine consciousness and nothing but the benevolent Benevolent Great mother and It's a it's an appalling ideology and It Seems to me that it's sucking the vitality Which is Exactly What you would Expect symbolically it's sucking the Vitality of Our culture you see that with the increasing Demolition of Young men and Not Only Young men in terms of Their Academic performance Which like They're Falling Way behind in Elementary School Way behind in Junior High and Bailing Out of the universities like Mad and so and i Well The Public school Education become completely Permeated by This Kind of my anti male Propaganda i mean and i need to me public Schools are Just a form of imprisonment you Know right Now they're particularly Destructive to young men who have a Lot of physical Energy Now you know i identify as transgender gay Mic Myself away but i do not i do not require the entire world to alter itself okay to fit my particular The self-image i do believe in The Power of Hormones i believe that men Exist and Women Exist and They are biologically different i think that i think there is No cure for The Cultures ills Right Now Except If men Start standing opera in demanding That They be Respected As men okay okay so i got a question about That So so one of The Things we did a research Project a Year ago trying to figure out if there Was such a Thing as Political Correctness From a Psychometric perspective to find out if there the loose Aggregation of Beliefs Actually Clumped Together Statistically and We Actually Found two factors Which i won't go into but then we Looked at Things That predicted adherence to that That? Politically Correct Creed and There were a couple That were surprising one was being female Was a predictor The Personality attributes associated With Femininity so that Would Be Agreeableness and higher levels of negative emotion were also both independent predictors but so were symptoms of personality disorder Which i thought Was really important Because Part of What i see happening is That Like i think that Women whose relationship with men have has Been Seriously? Pathologized Cannot distinguish Between male Authority and competence and male Tyrannical Power Like They fail to differentiate because all They see is the oppressive male and then They may Have had Experiences that That? Their Experiences with men might have Been Rough enough so that That differentiation never occurred Because it has to occur And You have to have a Lot Of Experience with men and Good men do before that will occur? But It Seems to me that we're also increasingly dominated By a view of Masculinity That's Mostly Characteristic of Women who have terrible Personality disorders and Who are unable to have Healthy relationships with men Now but Here's the problem you know? This is something My Wife is pointed Out to she said well men are gonna have to stand up for Themselves but Here's the problem? I know how to stand up to a man Who's Whose Unfairly Trespassed Against me and the reason i know that is because the parameters for My resistance are quite well-Defined Which is We talk We argue we Push and then It Becomes physical Right Like If We Move Beyond The Boundaries of civil discourse we Know what the Next step is ok That's Forbidden in in Discourse with Women and so i don't think that men can control Crazy Women i don't they i really don't believe it i think That They have to Throw Their Hands up in in in in what in in it's not even disbelief It's that The cultural There's no step Forward That You can take Under Those Circumstances Because if the Man Is offensive enough and Crazy Enough The Reaction Becomes Physical Right Away or at Least The Threat is there and When men are talking to each Other in any serious Manner That Underlying Threat of Physicality is Always there especially if It's a real conversation and Keeps The Things civilized to some degree you know iF you're talking to a Man Who wouldn't fight with You under any Circumstances Whatsoever then you're talking To someone to whom you have absolutely no respect but i can't See any Way for Example There's a There's a Woman in in toronto Who's Been? Organizing This movement Let's Say Against me and some Other People who are gonna do a free speech Event and she Managed to organize quite effectively and She's quite? offensive You might Say She compared us to nazis for Example Which you know publicly Using The Swastika Which wasn't really something i was all That far in Depth but i i'm defenseless against That Kind of female Insanity Because The Techniques That i would use against a Man Who was employing those tactics are Forbidden to me So i don't know like It seems to me that It isn't men that have to stand up and Say Enough of This even though That is What They Should do It Seems to me that it's same Women who have to stand up against Their Crazy sisters and Say Look enough of That enough man-Hating enough Pathology enough Bringing disgrace on us as a Gender But The problem there and then They'll Start My little tirade is that most of the Women i know Who are saying are Busy doing same Thing Right They're off They have Their career They have Their Family They're quite occupied and they don't seem To have the time or maybe even the interest to go after Their Their Crazy Harpy sisters and so i don't see any regulating Force For That That terrible Femininity and It Seems to me to be Invading the culture and undermining The The masculine Power of the culture in a Way That's i think Fatal i really do Believe that i - i too believe these are Symptomatic of the decline of Western culture and We and it Will Just Go down flat i don't think People realize that you know Masculinity Still Exists okay in the World As a Code among Jihadists Okay and when you have passionate Masculinity okay circling the Borders like The huns and the Vandals during The roman empire That's what i see i see this culture rotting from Within okay and Disemboweling Itself Literally Now mile an Overview of Why we're having this problem and It comes from The fact that I'm the product of an immigrant Family all four of My Grandparents and My mother were born in Italy so i remember from my earliest Years in This factory Town in upstate New York where the wife of My relatives came to work in The shoe Factory i can Remember Still okay They the life of the Agrarian era okay which we're not Which Was for most of Human History The Agrarian era Where there was the World of men and the World of Women and the sexes had Very little to do with each Other Each had power and status in its own Realm Right and They Laughed at Each Other in in essence The Way the Women had enormous power in fact the old Women Ruled not the young Beautiful Woman Like Today but The Older You were the more you had control Over Everyone including the mating and marriage Um there were no doctors so though you had the you know the old Women were like Midwives and Knew all the ins and outs of This and inherited Knowledge about Pregnancy and All These Other Things right i can Remember This in the Ignition and and the Joy That Women had with each Other all day Long okay cooking With each Other a Companions to each Other talking conversing My mother Remembered As a Small Child in Italy When It Was time to do the laundry They Would take The Laundry Up the mount up the hill to the fountain You'll soar go okay And do It by Hand they would sing They Would picnic and so on alright and we Get a glimpse of that in the Odyssey When Odysseus is is is Thrown up naked on the shores of phoenicia alright and and he Hears the sound of Women Young Women Laughing and Singing and it'S no Nikki or the princess Bringing the Women to do the laundry He's Exactly The same Thing ok? So there was a Each Gender Had its own? Hierarchy its own Values its own Way of talking and the sex is rarely Intersected Like I can Remember in My in childhood and a Holiday Typical ago It could Be a Christmas It could Be a Thanksgiving Whatever all after Then Women Would be cooking all day Long Everyone Would Sit down to eat ok and then After That ok The Women were retired on Master The Kitchen and the men would go i would i would look at the Food window and see all the men the men would Be all outside usually Gather on the car Ok a time When cars didn't Work as Well as They do today with the hood up Okay and the men Would be standing with Their Hands on Their Hips like That? Everyone's Staring at The engine and i went Yeah That's how i learned okay men were refreshing Themselves By Studying something Technical and Mechanical after Being With The Women okay you know for during the Dinner okay So so also all of These problems of Today are the direct consequence of Women's emancipation and Freedom from Housework Thanks to capitalism okay Which made It possible for Women to have Jobs That Said at home for The very first time in the? Nineteenth Century no longer to be dependent on a Husband or father or brother right and so This Great Great Thing That's Happened to us they're allowing us to be totally self Knowing Self Supporting Independent Agents has Produced all This Animosity about maybe Too Many men and Women Because the Women Women Feel Unhappy Women Today and Wherever i go whether it's Italy or brazil or England or America or toronto okay the of the upper-Middle class professional Women are Unhappy Miserable They want and They don't know What Why they're Unhappy they want to blame it on men okay the men must change Men must become more Like Women no that is the wrong Way to go okay it's when men are men okay and Understand Themselves As men are Secure as men then you're going to be happier yeah well there's nothing more Dangerous Than a Weak man Yeah absolutely Okay especially all These Quislings okay spouting feminists you Hear That okay it Makes me sick but Here's the point? Men and Women Have never Worked side by side? Ever Maybe on The Farms okay when you were like maybe One person's in the potato field the other Ones over here in the tomato we're Doing Tomatoes or Whatever okay you you had you had Families Working Working side by side Exhausted With each Other no time to have It in any Clash of This It Was a collaborative effort on farms and so on Never in all of Human History have men and Women Been Working side By side and Women are Now the pressure about silicon Valley? They're also Sexist oh there there say They don't allow Women in and so on the men are being men in silicon Valley All right and They Should Be engineers and The Women are demanding that you're oh? This is terrible You're being sick maybe the sex is okay have their own particular Form of Rhetoric Their own particular form you know by Density okay maybe okay we Need to Reexamine okay this Business about your they may be we have to perhaps Accept some degree of tension and Conflict Between The Sexes okay it in a Work environment i don't Mean Harassment I'm sorry I'm talking about Women Feeling Disrespective Yeah how some how They're with their opinions When They Express them okay are not taking Seriously or or That Even Hillary Clinton Is complaining oh When your Woman write something online She's Attacked Immediately and Sorry Well Everyone's Attacked online What are you talking about the World is tough the World is Competitive okay identity Is Whole okay by conflict the idea That There's Been no Conflict That We Have to be in this back okay of approbation yes and That's the devouring Cycle That's right It's Absolutely infantile and Mean It okay so a couple of Things there well the first Thing is is that the the AgreeaBleness trait That Divides men and Women most There's three Things that Divide Women and men most particularly from the Psychrometric perspective One is that Women are more agreeable Than men and so that Seems to be the primary Maternal Dimension as far As i can Tell it's associated with a desire to avoid conflict but it's it's associated with interpersonal Closeness Compassion Politeness Women are reliably Hired Especially in the Scandinavian countries and in the countries where egalitarianism has progressed the farthest so That's where the difference is Maximized Which is one of the things James d'Amour Pointed Out quite Correctly in His Infamous Google Memo okay women are higher and negative emotion so That's Anxiety and emotional Pain Now that difference is approximately the same size and again That Maximizes in egalitarian Societies Which is Extremely interesting and then The Biggest difference is the Difference in interest Between People and Things and so Women are more interested in people and men are more Interested in Things Which Goes Along quite Nicely with your car anecdote but The Thing about men Interacting With Men again is that It isn't That They respect each Other's Viewpoints That's not Exactly Right What happens with a Man and i know a Lot of men that i would regard is as Remarkably Tough People For One reason or another and Everything You do with them is a form of Combat Like if you want your viewpoint Taken Seriously Often you have to yell them down and like They're not gonna stop talking Unless you start talking over them you know and it's it's Not like men are automatically Giving respect to other men Because that Just Doesn't Happen it's that the Combat is there and it's Expected and One of the problems and so this is part of The reason Why i think men are bailing out of so much Of Academia and and maybe The Academic World in General and Maybe The World in General is That Men Actually don't have any Idea how to compete with Women Because the problem is is that if you Unleash Yourself Completely Then you're an absolute bully and There's no Doubt about that Because iF men unleash Themselves on other men that can Be Pretty Goddamn Brutal especially for the men that are really Tough and this so that Just Doesn't Happen With Women ever but so you can't unleash Yourself completely if you win you're a Bully if You lose While you're Just Bloody Pathetic so how the hell are you Supposed to play a game like That you Know so in i've worked with lots of Women in law Firms in Canada For Example and and High achieving Women Like Really remarkable People i would Say and They're often Nonplussed i would Say By The attitude of the man in the law firm because They Would like to see everyone pulling together Because All Part of The same team Whereas the Manner like at Each Other's Throats in an in a Cooperative Way Because They want the law firm to succeed but They want To be the person Who's at the top of the success Hierarchy Right so and that that Doesn't Jive well with the more competitive or cooperative Ethos That's Part and parcel Of Agreeableness and so We don't really have any Idea how to integrate male and female Doormen Exactly Exactly Exactly Right This is Why i love this show a real Housewives me which is worse Than Mc scorns and Just Say It Just last night okay i was watching on an episode all Right Where the Women were at each Other okay at a Party and all in Recounting But i said this to you and but you Said this to me anyway and the men and God we Got together there and Said Well This is the way they communicate you know with each Other and you know Say in them you know men we men okay Just Will have a fist fight and we'll Em in ten minutes Later we're gonna have a beer at The bar Where they met next? To each Other and so i mean i have observed That Land Finland Yeah my Daughter My Daughter used to be really irritated about That Because she she like most People Was the target of feminine conspiratorial Bullying At Once She's no pushover My Daughter so this Wasn't like This Was a Continual Thing or that She Didn't know what to do about it but She had to observe These Girls conspiring Against her and then Blackening her name on on Facebook Which is part of It Part and parcel of The typical female Bullying routine Which is often reputation demolition Right That There's a Good editor on that and then She'd Watch What Would Happen if My Brother or my son would have a Dispute with his friends you know and maybe They were drinking and there Was a dispute They'd Have a fight and then The next day They were friends again and That's another Thing That strange is that like men have a Way of Bringing a conflict to a head and Resolving It right and that It isn't obvious to me that Women have that same? Perhaps You might Call It a Luxury but it's also the case that men don't know what to do when they get into a conflict With a Woman Because What the hell are you Supposed to do you know Mostly What you're supposed to do is avoid It and and Well i think you know i don't know whether the crosses into other countries but That there's a Certain Kind of Taunting and The Men Boys do with each Other That toughen them okay and where they don't they don't take Things Seriously but Girls Feelings Become Extremely Hurt if you Hear something like That it's Very Tough for you know again like Sarcastic Against her so i mean i do Feel that there are Profound differences Between The Sexes and in Terms of Emotions in Terms of communication patterns you Know my father used to say That he could never follow Women's Conversations he Said he said Women don't even finish Their Sentences They're there with Their Women? Understand immediately What the Other Woman is Saying okay And and you know in the way Women tend to be more interested in or have Been traditionally more interested in soap operas It's not Just The Women were home Without Jobs It's that Honestly i believe that Soap opera Does Reflect Does Mirror The Way Women talk to each Other They Say these Communication patterns have Been Built Up through Women in the World of Women okay Which Was It made sense there Was a Division of Labor Okay It wasn't Sexism against Women That There Was a Division of Labor The men went off to hunt and did the Dangerous Things the Women Stayed Around The hearth Because you had pregnant Women Nursing Women older Women okay They were cooking and so on so i feel that these Communication patterns That we're talking about have Been Built Up became over the centuries and then men had to toughen each Other okay too hard to go out in the hunting parties the native americans you know it would Be They could be gone for two weeks And It went When the temperature was Below zero Many of them died okay yes yeah the idea that somehow Oh in any Kind of Separation of The sexes or different Spheres of the sexes Is Inherently Sexist yeah an inherently Driven By all powered By Now the Answer to all of This okay everything That we're talking about okay is Education Into Early History okay until you until People Understand The stone age of a Nomadic Period the Agrarian era and the band how culture Health Civilization Built up okay in Mesopotamia The Great Irrigation Projects Where orange or in Egypt Today Where you had for the first Thing Centralized Government Authority Became Necessary okay to master these Leaves and you had a Situation where an Environmentally You know you know a difficult Situation Like The deserts of mesopotamia or the the peculiar Character of Egyptian Geography Where you can Only have a Little Tiny fertile line Along The edges Of a Nile okay otherwise desert Landscape so the This Civilization and Authority Came Right It's not Necessarily about Power Grabbing But about Organization to achieve something for the good of The people as a Whole yes you Will see That's well That's Exactly The symbolism of the Greeks by Reducing all Hierarchy to to power you know and and selfish Power okay it's it is utterly Naive its ignorant so i Say Education has to be totally Reconstituted Including Public Education to begin in the most distant past it's so that so our Young People Today who know nothing about How the World Was created Today and Have It okay can Understand okay what Marvelous in particular Like Paradise They live in and it's the product of capitalist is the product of individual Innovation it'S the Project most of it'S the product of a Western tradition That Everyone Wants to trash Now is there if you beget in The Past and show It also Talk about war Maybe With the more is the one Thing that Wakes People up okay as we See war as we Need to see Yes okay Wars The Reality Prints of My of the father and all in five of My Uncle's went to world war two you know and My Father Was It was Part of The force That Landed in Japan okay a paratrooper you Know at The time of The japanese Surrender okay and My couple Uncle's Got Shot Up and so on when you have the reality of war When People See the reality of The horrors of war Berlin Burned To a crisp and and so on your starvation okay then You Understand okay in this Marvelous Mechanism That Brings Water you know to you to the to the kitchen and you Slip on a Lightly The Electricity Electricity cuz i know of for me like and i suppose it's because i have somewhat of a depressive temperament i mean One Thing That Staggers me on a consistent Basis is the fact that anything ever Works i Mean Because it'S so unlikely you know to To be in a Situation Where our Electronic communications Work where are where our electric Grid Works and It Works All The time right It Works a Hundred Percent of The time and the reason for that is that there are Mostly men Out there who are breaking Themselves into pieces repairing This Thing Which Just falls apart all the time i Said this in the monk debate okay in toronto Several Years Ago i said there's the invisible all these? Cds you Know these are the latest in professors sneering and men it'S men who are Maintaining Everything Around Us or anything This is an invisible Army okay Which of you would you feminists don't notice Right Nothing Would Work or regarded Regarded as impressive Which is you know and like a professor is someone Who's Standing on a Hill Surrounded By a Wall Which is surrounded by another Wall Which is surrounded by another Wall like its walls all the Way down who stands Up there and Says I'M brave and independent it's like You've Got This protected area That's so unlikely it'S so absolutely Unlikely and The fact That People Aren't on their Knees in gratitude all The time for the fact that we have central heating and Air? Conditioning and pure water and reliable Food it'S Just it'S so It is absolutely unbelievable Used to die and then the Water Supply me with it with It Was contaminated with cholera for evans Sakes a People Understand okay they Had Clean Water and fresh Milk fresh orange Juice all of These Things There's a mom at all of The time all the Time and That's in Western Cultures Is heading okay Because because we are so dependent on this on This invisible infrastructure we're a Heading for an absolute catastrophe When Jihadists figure Out How to paralyze the power grid the entire culture Will be be Chaotic You'll Have Mobs in the street okay you know Within three Days Okay wait a minute so Suddenly the Food Supply iS interrupted and There's no like There's no Way to communicate They'll Be like You're the robber i mean that that is the way western culture is going to collapse okay It won't take Much it'S a single point so silly Because we are so interconnected Now we are so it's so it's so dependent on communications and computers they Eat It i Used to print for Years it'll be an asteroid hitting there yeah well you never Know another i know how the solar Flares Work so back and this happens about once Every Century so back about 1880 and i don't remember the exact Year There Was a Significant enough Solar flare so that Produces an electromagnetic pulse like a Hydrogen Bomb Because the sun is a Hydrogen bomb and electromagnetic Pulse will emerge from the sun and Wave across the earth and It produces Huge spikes in Electrical Electrical Current Along Anything That's electronic and it'll Burn Them out it let It live Telegraph operators on fire in the 1800s and One of Those Things took out The quebec power grid in 1985 and Knocked Out The Whole northeast Corridor and so They figure those Things are about 1 in a Century event But Those single While you have My brother-in-Law Who's a Very Smart guy he designed the chip an iphone we were talking about political issues The last time i went and Saw Him in San Francisco and His notion Was That All That The Government Should Be Doing right Now is stress testing our infrastructure the same way They stress test the banks Because we're so full of These single Points of Failure that and i think you're absolutely Right Luckily we've Been What Would you call Invaded By Stupid Terrorists Instead of Smart Terrorists Because a Smart Terrorist Could do an unbelievable Amount of damage in a Very short Period of Time So and it's Just God's Good graces that that hasn't Happened yet And so What Will Happen is that it's the men ok the men will reconstruct Civilization While The Women cower in the Houses and have the men go out and do all The Dirty Work That's What'S gonna Happen again? Only men Will Bring Civilization back again so what ok so now a couple of Things so the Universities i Mean i've proposed although it'S something That's probably Beyond my Power That What Should Happen is that the Universities the real content of The universities Should Be Stolen back from the universities Because They're not making Use of Their Intellectual property and that something Should Be Started online That Would constitute a genuine University The problem is the Accreditation issue but i don't think That's an Unsolvable problem but do you see Like All These People Who have these Postmodern neo-Marxist Agendas are completely embedded Inside the University And the point is over over the last 25 Years i Have received constant mail? From People Dropping Out of the graduate Schools and or giving up all Together on any Idea of being a college professor so What's happened is that The most Talented and Independent Thinking People They have Avoided in the Schools so we're now what who we have are the compliant the servile ok? The People Who are currently in the university and and Hiring Their Successors They are Male educated Themselves okay me i went on the first letters i received in the Early? 1990s i'll never Forget It so I'm a Woman who was now to painting Houses in missouri and Said she had Been Part of the comparative literature graduate program at You know at Berkeley and that she Finally had to drop Out because she said every time she would Express Enthusiasm for What They were reading the People looked at her as if she had somehow accredited offense and although in other words Enthusiasm For Art or Neither The Very Things you Need as a teacher in the classroom okay we're being Retrained Out Yeah well the Thing is if you respect art literature that means that you Implicitly Accept a Hierarchy of quality right and That of Course Contradicts The Fundamental tenants of The Postmodern doctrine Which is that there are no Hierarchies of quality and you know you Talked a Little Bit earlier about the The idea that You Referred again to the idea that everything is Associated With Power and That's That's the Thing that i can't That That's the thing that i can't Help but associate with with a Kind of Personality Pathology Like You Know from a psychometric perspective The best predictors of Long-Term Success in our society are intelligence Iq Which you can Measure Very accurately and trait conscientiousness Which Actually Is a Real testament to the culture right Because What you hope is that the Smart People Who Work hard are the people who Advance no It isn't like They deserve It Exactly that isn't What i mean it's that if the culture is Harnessing The productive Power of individuals properly Then It Should differentially Reward People Who are smart and Conscientious Because They're going to do a bunch of Really interesting Work for the rest of Us and that That's Very well-Established Finding it's it's as Good as any finding in the social Sciences but despite that and despite the fact that everything Works Which is a Goddamn miracle of sorts There is This Consistent Story That We live in a Patriarchy That It's only oppressive That it'S done nothing But Oppress Women since the Beginning of time Which is also something That Just Boggles my mind you know Like i know they have Sacrificed for Women and Children? Hakuna Their Lives okay for Thousands of Years You know yes there's Been Brutality but the brutality is the Minority okay yes This this is sick i Portrayal of Human History is nothing But male oppression and female victim inch i Mean This is a Way to To permanently ensure the infantilization of Women yes yes well and you Know there did you can Even make the case from a Purely logical Perspective so so Here's an interesting Here's an interesting fact So most of The People Who abuse their Children were abused as Children But most of The People Who were abused as Children don't abuse their Children Right so if you look at the population of abusers They were all abused so you can Say abuse causes abuse But That's That's not a good idea because you have a specific Sample there right It's not a Random Sample What happens is that abuse? Dampens Out of Over the centuries It Doesn't propagate itself and That's obvious Because if there Was if the Hypothesis of Essential male Tyranny Was true it Would Spread Exponentially Through The Population in like three generations and There Wouldn't be an Exception at all and so What Happens is Even When there is a Tilt Towards Tyranny Let's Say in the family or even in the society That Regresses back to something That'S far more Benign Very Very rapidly and you see this so One of the biggest Unexamined Issues Is the transition from the Great extended Family of old okay into the Nuclear Family and I do Feel That freud is the best Analyst of The particular Kind of Claustrophobic Cell of The Modern Nuclear Family It could Be The Human being It could Be That Human Beings were never intended okay to be trapped in a house Just With Their Parents The Extended Family They were you and your Aunts and you know and Grandparents and and in cousins All of Whom Helped form your identity okay so one had One's identity Was What is a Member of a Community Rather Than in this like hothouse environment so i think a Lot of Current issues Including This subspace of Transgender Claims and so on that a Lot of These Things are coming from This unstable Of in in itself it's really a Prison cell okay of the Nuclear Family Two parents Perhaps Cannot give all The knowledge of Life okay to The Young and so i think there are all Kinds of? Sexual Issues you know that are generated by It but with the you know Psychology today Is is now it's simply a Magical Matter People come in you Know the psychologists in the United States Deals With Your Present problem Let's not Go into the distant past okay Let's Just deal with our present problem Which are Which obviously we Have Forms of? communication We Need to like fix this and then You'll be fine as a Consequence There's a complete absence of any Kind of Analysis of Your Experiences As a Child With Your Parents so you know with you with your siblings and so on how that might relate to your current Sexual Identity Issues Whether it's transgender or whether it'S homosexuality It is impact you could not Possibly Ask me about any Genesis of homosexuality Today okay Because that is automatically Defined as Homophobic well Excuse me every single it's an open Link game you know the person myself Every gay person i know okay there's some Story there okay Seems to me in childhood not only that There's a strange? Similarity of The Storylines of All of My Friends Who are gay okay there's a Same pattern That had to do with Blurred border Lines in Between i a son and His mother and so on i'm not blaming the mother Okay i'm not blaming the mother at all okay what i see is a Dynamic going on in the bourgeois house or the Nuclear Family? Where you had sometimes a Distant Father okay a Father who was present but it but in that not Really engaged and a mother who Make me the son her companion in some way often the mother has Great Imagination and Flair They had a Shared Thing and i mean i think the idea that homosexuality Has nothing Whatever to do okay with Your Family life is not well it's also completely Well That's another Thing and i got a Lot of trouble in canada for My Opposition to bill C16 Which Was a bill that had to do with Transgender rights and i didn't Really give a Damn about the transgender right issue that had nothing to do with it What bothered me was that there Was an issue of compelled Speech Because You were required by the on Terry Human Rights Commission to use the pronouns that of the person's choice right otherwise then Absolutely or well in that Concern and it's absolutely intolerable you Know i i have said i Said Years ago okay that my book Sexual persona Which Was like a 700 page book i said that is the biggest sex change in history because i okay with My transgender issues all right don't Look to the magnificent Construction of English okay It Was the english language okay that i seized on to gain My Identity and My Power as a person right and Therefore Any Intrusion Into english Someone Tongue Trying to tell me how to use english This Great gift okay to me This is absolutely obscene and Evil any Company to try to Dictate to us how we're going to use this missing It Was an instrument of english yes Absolutely and and that Was for me the breaking point because i believed well and i think that That's? Associated With The idea of the logos in the west you know Because That's a deep Mythological Idea That the logos is the Thing that Brings order Out of chaos through communicative Speech and that That's Tightly Aligned With Your soul and i don't care if you're an atheist or a Believer It Doesn't Matter it's still the right language and That no one has any right Whatsoever Under Any Circumstances to Trespass against That and so but That's okay Because That's law in canada Now and so But okay so now back to your let's see you were making a Point about Yes okay because it's it's interesting to look at These Things from Obviously for multiple Perspectives Which is another Thing the ideologues don't do right Because for them everything Is one cause There's One That's how you can tell When You're Dealing With someone Who's ideologically Possessed is They Make everything attributable to a single cause like Power So but so one of the things That's Happened with the Nuclear Family That'S quite interesting too is That Parents are older and They and They Have Fewer Children So you could imagine that that hothouse environment in some sense is being Exaggerated for a Bunch of Reasons One Is Well Your Child is a Lot more Valuable to you iF you're older and you only Have one or two? Right Because you're Not going to get another chance That's first of all you might Have had some Trouble having the Job to begin With? And you're not gonna get another chance so you've Got all youR Eggs are in one basket so to speak and then of Course Children don't have? The Number of Siblings They used to have and one of The Things That's Really Useful about having siblings is that They Keep you in Your place right They Their Primary socialization agents and i Mean that can Be Brutal and That's Reflected Say in the story of Cain and Abel you know that that internal Household Dynamic with Siblings can Be can Really Become Murderous and That has to be kept under control but i think the the Hothouse Flower person Who's Who's incapable of tolerating Any Jobs or Any or Any testing Any dominance Hierarchy testing of The sort that you Said that men do Part of That's The consequence of being Raised by older Parents Who have Excess Resources Who have no siblings because the child is then of course special and that specialness well there seems to be an inverse relationship Between that specialness That's protected and the person's Robustness and resilience and so and then That's caught into or not caught into That's That's Pandered to by the universities Which insist upon setting up a situation where no one is ever offended by anything Any Of The time and That's something i also can't understand at All Because That's a Huge point you Just made okay because it's the upper Middle Class of the Professional Class Who Postpones having the Children okay Because They go to law School They Go to medical school all right and They and They have the Children after They're Settled okay in a Job okay so? They're the ones okay who have injected This this this? hypersensitive Bourgeois Aidid You Know code into the universities Now my parents Were twenty When they Married in 21 when They had me okay it made my father was You Know went to college on the gi bill getting out of Out of World war. Two so i When i was Born my Father Was still in college and Was sweeping full went to floors and so on i am the product of Young Parents and nature Wants Actually Young Compared Ins right Because Because Pregnancy Is is quicker it's Safer okay and so on and my Parents Had The Energy - You Know They're this useful Energy That can-Do spirit That came Out of World War two and so on i'm talking about then then Not Only other Sibling It Was Born 14 Years Later okay my father this point Was a college professor right so she had completely different parents Than i did so she has Very Excellent Manners and so She's completely different okay right And i have all This Like The Energy of My Parents Were Just Out of Their Teens? But Not Today We Have this situation no and it's considered Heresy to raise this issue okay That you have Have Young Women are told okay There's one future for you you are a future leader okay you must you must move Forward okay four Years of college and The purpose Was a professional Class okay all right so it May Be the women young Women's bodies are signalling okay that They want to be Another's Maybe Maybe There are Signals coming From The Body Right of Maybe Now one Thing this this this this System of Education That Was devised for men okay this being Funneled Along Channel Along its Mechanism Alright so young Women you know Feel Unhappy they don't know why they Feel They have no sense of Identity Yeah if they if they want to marry and Drop Out of college And Have a Baby They Will be treated as traitors to their class What you are future leader What have a Baby Only? Working-Class Women Would Do That okay know What i find Working-Class Women okay in General okay far more Rounded as personalities okay They Express Themselves Forcefully They Have Body language that Takes Up space okay a Man Says something to them on the street They are right back in their face and so on It's the Bourgeois Girls okay who are talked to they're there because They are special okay we have to postpone Actual Life okay from for all These Years You See these these are the girls who are who misjudged The Fraternity parties setting These are the Girls Who like robbing for parental Protection and Hand-Holding on the on the committee? Investigating What went wrong in their day and so on so forth so yet so yes i i think that What you that you have? Located That's Very interesting The idea That These These Young Girls okay who are so sensitive okay in college so unable to handle their sex life are the product of older Parents Because They went through The professional career track Right Yes and They They have not had the experience of the you know competitiveness you Know it will end Up and and teasing of Other Siblings As well also You have a Thing about Young Parents is They don't care as much As older Parents and that Actually Turns Out to Be Better Because What you really want for Your Children is minimum Necessary Intervention right and and the developmental literature is Actually quite clear on this so iF you're at home With your Child What the best role that you can Play Is to be there but not to be Interacting With The Child all The time the child Should Be off Doing Whatever it is the Children do which? Generally is Playing With Other Children right Without It being Mediated also By Screens and Technology Because That's how they formulate Their identity and That's how They Learn to play Joint Games with other People and the parent is supposed to be there as a recourse for The Child When They go out a Little Bit farther Than they can tolerate and They have to come back and Get some security and so but That Isn't That's especially not What happens to single Children Because They're Basically Raised as miniature Adults so When i wonder - Like How much of the Antipathy Towards That These are Dark Musings and i would Say How much of the Antipathy Towards Men That's being Generated By Say college-Age Women Is Deep Repugnance For the role That They've Been designed and a disappointment with the man for who you know like you think of those Carpathian or I Can't remember the culture The Basic Merit Marital Routine Was to ride into the village and grab the Bride and Run Away with her on a horse right it's like the like the motorcycle Gang Member Who rips the two naive Woman Out of Girl out of the bosom of her family There used to be bride stealing It Was quite a bit quite quite Widespread Right Now so i kind of Wonder iF Part of The reason That Modern University Aged Women Aren't so aren't so Angry is Because That Fundamental feminine Role is Actually Being Denied to them and They're They're objecting to that At a Really Really Fundamental Level like a Level of primitive outrage well Because What Happened is the chaos That my Generation Of 1960s Bequeathed Through The Sexual revolution i When i arrived in college 1964 The colleges were still acting in local Parentis in Place of a Parent so at my Dormitory Were all Women's Dormitory We Women had to sign in at 11 o'clock at night the men could Run free the entire night so it was my Generation of Women that rose Up and Said give us the same Freedom as men have and the colleges replied no In the World is Dangerous that You could Be raped We Have to protect you against rape and what we Said okay was Give us the Freedom to risk rape okay and so That What That? Today's Women to Understand it's a Freedom That You want it's the same Freedom That give gay men have when they go and they pick Up a Stranger someplace They know it's Dangerous They Know they could end up beaten Up or Killed okay but They find it hat If you want Freedom if you want Equality Okay then you have to start Behaving like a Man Know so what We did is we Gave Freedom to these Young Women for Several Generations But My Generation had Been Raised in a far more Resilient and Robust culture okay we had the strength okay to Know What we wanted and to fight for What we Wanted these Young Women have Been Raised in This protective terribly Protected Ways? So i think in some strange you know the fashion that that all these Demands for Intrusion from these you know stalinist Committees Sexually You Know Investigating Dates and so on it's a Way to reinstitute Tooken a The Rules that My Generation Threw Out the window i saw i think these Young Women are Desperate not Only that but i have spoken Out Very? Strongly in you know in a piece i wrote for time magazine that isn't my most Recent book That the Raising the Drinking age in this country okay from 18 to 21 okay has had a Direct result okay in these in these disasters of Binge Drinking Fraternity parties Because It's a Lot Let constants The Way we could Go out as Freshmen Have a Beer? Sit in a protected adult environment Learn How to discourse with the opposite sex in a safe you know Man Environment right and so on and you and not today okay because because of the stupid role That Young People can't even buy a Drink A you know in a bar Until the 21 we have these the fraternity parties that are like it'S a Caveman era Well of Course in modern Age This is Advantages men okay men want to hook Up men want To have sex? Women don't understand What men want so you know iF Women Women are like Put Out Because They're hoping that maybe the man Will continue To be interested in them okay the man Just Wants experience okay i mean that the Hormones drive Toward turning to me i'm Serious okay that the you know they that the sex drive in men is Intertwined With With Hunted pursuits okay yes yes i Feel absolutely This is What Women don't Understand okay And if Women understood What i understand from My transgender perspective all right with These Women on the streets okay you know i know i'm Obviously you know Madonna you know an Admirer and you know and i Support Pornography and Prostitution so i don't want what i'm about to say It's a seeming conservative Isn't It isn't okay what i'm Saying is the women on the Street Young Women okay who are about who are Jogging okay with no Bra on okay short Shorts and have and Have earbuds in Their Ears okay Just Jogging the long As i saw These Women do not? Understand The nature of the Human Mind they do not Understand the nature of Psychosis okay and This intertwining Them talking about of The hunt the Hunter pursuing Things okay They're Triggering a Hunt Thing Just What you would You You have talked about in terms of the Zebra Herd okay They are triggering the hunt game Impulse okay in Psychotic men okay There Goes a Very appetizing and and and totally Oblivious Animal okay Bouncing Along Here and we're in a Period Now where Psychosis is not understood at all okay Young Women have had no exposure to Movies Like Psycho okay well you Know the Kind of The Rapists Serial Murderer Things so on the Kind of strange Dynamic That has to do with It with an assault on the only a mother in Michael you know in in the in the mind Of a Psychotic i think this is an incredible naivete these Young Women are emerging and going to college and in in this like incredible Dye Nation environment of You know a Sector Orgy Astok Sexual Experience in fraternity Houses They're completely unprepared for It right and and so you're getting all This outrage so feminist Rhetoric has gotten more and more reme and its portrayal of men as Evil but in fact ok What we Have is a caste you Say it's a chaos in the Sexual Realm The Girls Have Not Been told anything real i Mean in terms of Biological Substrate of Sexual no Way There's Full of lies about What constitutes consent to become something That's essentially Portrayed linguistically As a Sequence of progressive Contracts Which You know is it's well i think you know i've thought for a While that we're living in the delusional Fantasy of a Naive Thirteen Year old Girl Thoughts Basically Sums Up our culture and i look at all these Sexual Rules that permeate the the the Academia and i think two Things the first Thing i think is well i? Know Because i was an Alcohol Researcher for a long time and you know that 50% Of Violent Crimes are directly attributable to alcohol so if you're murdered There's about a 50% chance That you're drunk and About a 50% chance that the person who Kills you is drunk and Alcohol Is the only drug That we Know that Actually amplifies Aggression It Does that in laboratory situations Plus It's a Great Disinhibitor Right So What Alcohol Does is it it Doesn't make You oblivious to the future Consequences of Your action Because if you ask someone Who's drunk about the consequences of something Stupid They can tell you what the consequences are but It Makes you not care and It Does that Because it's technically an Exile itta click like Barbiturates or like Benzodiazepines and It also Has an Activating Property for Many People Who drink so it's it's a stimulant and A-- and an Anxiety Attack at The same time and a Very very potent it's very potent for both of them and you know we put Young People together and Douse them in Alcohol right at The binge Drinking Level and Then Which also interferes with Memory consolidation Which of course Makes Things Much more complex and then we're Surprised When there are Sexual Misadventures and you know and then it's also attributed Almost Purely to the predatory element That's That's part and parcel of Masculinity but a Tremendous Amount of That Is also Naivety and Stupidity you know Because we Expect Like 80 18 year old Guys especially The Ones That Aren't That Haven't Been Successful with Girls Which is like 85% of them Because the Successful men are a Very small percentage of men The 85% who haven't Been Successful with men or with Women They don't know What the hell they're doing at All right and Part of The reason They're getting Drunk is to Garner Up enough Courage to actually make in Advance You Know and Because i think another Thing That Women don't understand especially With Regards to young men is Just Exactly how petrifying attractive Woman Who's of Say Somewhat Higher status Actually is to a young guy and there's Lots of Guys That write me Constantly and People That I've Worked with that are so terrified of Women They can't even talk to them it's very Very common Well you know i take a Very Firm Position Which is that i Want college Administration's to stay Totally Out of the social Lives of The students right If a Crime is committed It Should Be reported to the police i've Been writing That for 25 25 Years Now all right but but it's not the business of Any College Administration to take Any notice okay of What to students Say to each Other Say to each Other as Well As do With each Other okay i want it totally stopped is Fascism of the war yeah i agree why are you sitting it's i think it's Fascism of The worst Kind Because it's an it's a New Kind of fascism you know it's It's partly Generated By Legislation so they like The title nine man memo that Was written in 2011 i Recently Got a Copy of That Goddamn Thing That Was One polluting Bit of Legislation That Was that memo Basically Told Universities that Unless They set Up a parallel Court System They were going to be Denied Federal Funding It is absolutely unbelievable No, no There is no authentic Campus leftism I'm sorry It's a Fraud okay i mean you think the faculty Should Be fighting the administration's Federal Regulation of You Know how we're Supposed To behave on campus well how can you be so how can you be so naive and foolish to think that taking an Organization Like The University Which already has Plenty to do and Forcing It to become a Pseudo Legal System That Parallels The Legal System Could Possibly Be anything But Utterly Catastrophic It would Mean You have to know absolutely nothing about the legal system and about the Tremendous Period of Evolution That Produced What's Actually a Stellar system and an Adversarial System That Protects The Rights of The Accused and of the end of the victim and to replace That with an ad-hoc Bureaucracy That Has Pretty Much Essentially The same degree of Power as The court System with absolutely none of the training and none of the Guarantees Your records They were taking that piece that i wrote about date rape It Was in January 1991 Newsday Got But There's the most controversial Thing i ever wrote in my entire career i attacked the entire thing and Demanded The college Just stand back and Get Out of the social Eyes of The students so on and People the up Reaction People Try to occult They called the president of the My University Try to get me fired You can't believe hysteria okay i can believe AnyThing That Says to women okay that They Should be responsible For Their own Choices is Regarded as Reactionary are They Kidding me okay this is such a Betrayal of Authentic feminism in my view Well it's the ultimate betrayal of Authentic feminism Because it's it it's an Invitation of All The Things that you might Be paranoid about With Regards to the patriarchy back into your life right it's an Insistence That The most intrusive part of the tyrannical King come and Take control Over the most intimate details of Your life Incredible And The The assumption is that That's going to make Your life better Rather Than worse right Not to mention this idea of You Know That's the stages of verbal consent as if as if Your Impulses Based in the Body have anything to do with words And so on i mean That's the Whole point is you do a lot sex okay it's to abandon okay that you know that They're part of the Brain That's so that You know Inin trammeled With Words i Mean Yeah there's you see these two actually a Marker of Lack of social Ability To have to do that Because IF you're sophisticated it's not like iF you're dancing with someone it's not like you call out the moves Right If You have to do that Well then Your your your your more Worse Than the Neophyte right an Awkward Neophyte and Anybody with Any sense Should Get The hell away from you and so If you're reduced to the point where you Have to Verbally negotiate every element of intimate interaction then What a downer That yes but What i what an Unbelievably What Would You call It naive in Pathological view of the manner in Which Human Beings interact There's no sophistication in that well what i'm worried about also in this age of social media I've noticed as a teacher in the classroom That The Young People are so used to communicating Now by cellphone okay by iPhone That's They're Losing Body language and Facial Expressions okay Which i think is going to compound the problem With with these dating encounters okay Because the ability to Read the Human face Into into to Read Little Tiny Inflections of Emotion Well i think My Generation Got That from Looking at Great Foreign Films With her with Their long tanks okay so you have Jean Marais and okay in like in potential romantic encounters and You could You see the tiniest little little inflections all Right That That Signal communication or Sexual readiness or Irony or skepticism or distance or Whatever okay but the inability to read the Other People's Intentions okay that i think this is going to be a disaster i i Just noticed That How year by Year okay the students are becoming much more Flat Affect okay and They Themselves complain That They'll Sit in the same Room with someone and be texting to each Other Yeah Well There's a There's a piece Of evidence to that supports that to some degree so? Women with Brothers are less Likely to Get raped ha and the reason for that is that They've Learned That Nonverbal Language Deeply Right and They can They can they can spot the only that i Have noticed okay in My into my career okay that That Women who have many Brothers They are Very Good okay as Administrators and As Businesspeople okay all right Because They don't Take men Seriously okay They regard They They think they Saw Their brothers They think their brothers are Jokes okay but they know how to control men okay While It wall-e's to like men okay They admired men right so like This is something that i have seen You know repeatedly Yeah well So that Would Be also reflective you have the problem of Fewer and Fewer Siblings yes That's right okay yeah yeah? I've noticed in publishing okay there's this that the There was the Women who have this is the Job of publicists okay and rise to the top as manager of publicity okay Their Ability to take Charge of men and and and their humor in men they like that and They have Great relationships with men okay Because they don't Have the sense of resentment and Worry and Anxiety you Know and so They don't see men as aggressors okay right and i think it's another Thing too is that as feminism You Know moved into its present it's a System of ideology okay it has tended to a denigrate Motherhood okay as a lesser order of Human Experience and and to enshrine of Course abortion Now i am a Hundred Percent of abortion Rights you Know i belong to planned Parenthood for Years Until i Finally Rejected It As a Branch Of The democratic Party My own Party and so on but but as Motherhood became Excluded as as feminism Became Obsessed okay with the professional Woman okay i feel that the Lessons of That mothers Learn Have Been lost okay yeah to to feminism and Which is okay that if they if They're the mothers who bear boy Children okay Understand The fragility of men the fragility of Boys They Understand It They don't They don't see men and Boys as a Menace They understand That The greater strength of Women okay so there's this tenderness you know and connectedness Between The between the mother and the boy child okay when motherhood is part of The experience okay of Women who are discussing gender so what We Have today is that This Does gender Ideology Has Risen Up on Campuses where we're all none of the none of the Girls know the students are married none of Them have had Children okay and you? Have you have Women some of Whom have had Children but a Lot of They're Lesbians or like or like? Like professional Women and so on so this this the Whole tenderness and Forgiving Forgiving This okay and? Encouragement that Women do to Two Boys okay the fragility They don't Understand This Hypersensitivity of Boys is not understood okay Instead Boys are seen as somehow now i'm more privileged okay and somehow you know in Their Their Their Energy Level Is Interpreted as Aggression okay potential Violence and so on okay right so i think that That That What we Would do the Better okay iF we Would have i have proposed okay that colleges Should? Allow When the moment a Woman is Entered okay she has interested at college for life okay and that she that she should be free to leave Okay to have babies When she would her body Wants That babies When it's Healthy to have them okay and then Return Have Haven't had? Their occasional Course so can Build Up credits and fathers i Mean You might Be Able to do it as Well and so on To get married Women and Women With Children into the classroom the moment that happens It's happened after World War two okay we've had you had a Lot of Married you Guys in the classroom okay and so I'm not yet That many Women the Experience Of a Married person with a Family okay talking about gender But most of the Gender Stuff Will Be Laughed out of the Room okay if you had a real mother in there who had Experience in childbirth and Head Rate and It Was raising Boys and so on well i think That's That's also a You Know something That Has Led to this This This incredible art you Know artificiality and and hysteria okay feminist Rhetoric There's an There's another strange Element to that Which iS that on the one hand the The radical feminist Types That? Neo-Marxist Post Modernists are are Very Much Opposed to the patriarchy Let's Say and That's that uni-Dimensional Ideological Representation Perhaps The Word could be Applied to a Republican Rome and That's It okay well i mean maybe It could Be Applied Usefully to Certain Kinds of Tyranny but not to a society That's Actually Functional Victorian England Arguably okay but Other Than that it to use the word patriarchy in that in a Slapdash Way so amateurish Actually You Know Just Shows People Know nothing about History Whatever have You ever Read have done no reading so and so What Confuses me about? Is that despite the fact that the patriarchy is viewed as this essentially Evil Entity and That That's associated with The masculine energy That Built This oppressive structure the Antithesis of That Which Would Actually be Femininity as far As i can Tell Which is Tightly associated with care and with Child-rearing Is also Denigrated so it's like the only proper rule for Women to adopt is a Patriarchal Rule despite The fact that the patriarchy is something That's entirely Corrupt so the Hypothesis Seems to be that the patriarchy would be Just fine if Women Ran It so no changes it's Just that It Would Just be a transformation of Leadership and somehow that Would That Would Rectify The Fundamental problem even Though it's hypothetically Supposed to be structural okay so i'm gonna close with something so you Know There are Elements in My Character That are optimistic you know i've Looked For Example i worked for a U.N. committee and on the relationship between economic Development and sustainability and i found out a Variety of Things That were very optimistic like the fact That you Know the U.N. set out To have Poverty Between 2000 and 2015 worldwide and Actually Hit that By about? 2010 right so we're in that period of the fastest transformation of The bottom strata of the World's population into something approximating Middle Class That's ever occurred and There's all These Great Technological innovations on the horizon and and It Looks to me like Things could Go Extraordinarily Well If we Were Careful but I'm not Optimistic and Maybe That'S me i'm pessimistic because i also see that There's five or six Things happening all of Which Appear at the level of Catastrophe that are all happening at The same time and so One of The things that i'd like to ask you is like What do you see happening in the next 10 Years In in the universities or in culture at large and i Mean You Just Put Forward a proposal? For The Universities for The treatment of Women Which i think is a Very interesting One Because Women do have a different Timeframe Than men but like What the hell is the proper way Forward i've Been Encouraging Young men to tell the truth and to take responsibility and There's a Huge Market for that message but but i'm not Convinced By Any Stretch of the imagination that it's enough What like when you look Forward You Try to be optimistic What the hell do you see Well and in the largest you know scale I'm concerned about the future Western culture Because As a Student of History It Looks, too much to me like ancient Rome okay which became Over Expanded Which became a It Was at The Mercy of a Bureaucratic Creep okay and and in the and roman identity eventually Got Blurred okay in its incorporation of so Many different cultures Which i first seems Like a Healthy Kind of multiculturalism But Eventually Over Expand and Simply Collapse of Its own Way but iii So i am concerned about the you know whether western culture is in a rapid decline i think It Would Be Very Easy Because We Are you know so interconnected and so Over complex Very easy you know to bring it to Ruin It Would Only Take One Major Natural disaster you know to do that But The Universities Themselves i Mean i think People are all of a Sudden in the united States much more attentive to issues of political Correctness Because of The the riots At Berkeley Which was the you know Which was the capital of free speech i mean i don't Mean the the Free speech movement Happened in the spring? before i entered college in 1964 It so one of the Great principles and Inspirational Stories of My entire Life Mario Savio is you know you know Assertion of The of The Supremacy of you know free thought and free speech these okay and i so i think that Perhaps You Know we might Just Have Turned a corner and but it's gonna take a Very Very long time for the university to be Reformed I feel that the cafeteria menu okay of the university curriculum has to be abandoned we Must return to Historical Courses That Begin in the earliest period in the stone age In Antiquity in order to give perspective you know to to our to our present to an analysis of a person a culture i want 50 50 to 75 percent of college Administrators Fired okay and the Money Be Transferred over okay to to to faculty into libraries into into instruction okay i i think that you know the obviously the Way Things are being People are being a trained Right Now including at The public School Level okay Is i think that writing the public School Level has gone to hell, when my mother came you know came To united States The age of six they Would the old public School System Was still Very strict and therefore if she had some excellent Education You Know it's a and you know didn't Got all a'S and in her in her and even though she Started out Not speaking english Spoke without an accent etc okay so Today This This Kind of Feel-good The public school Education Which is Which is a form of ideology and Indoctrination Right Now it'S all about no bullying okay and not about you not even seriously about no bullying Yes i Can Tell in My own Students i Mean i've Been teaching for 46 Years so i can tell this slow Degradation Of Public School Education Get Today to the point now that the students have absolutely no sense of World Geography of World History okay they know absolutely don't Know anything about Wars okay and The Reality The Barbaric Reality of Most of Human History and What It Whatever defense That's Triggering yes right What a fantastic culture we live in and so you know it didn't identity Politics itself has Just got to stop i mean It Was important once okay Again i i was a Rebel Against The the wasp you know Hegemony okay White anglo-Saxon protestant hegemony in American culture it Was It Was suffocating iii Was raised in the 1950s When Wasps Controlled Corporations and and and Education and Politics and so on it so identity Politics Was Necessary once okay to it we Asserted getting gay Rights okay with it with stonewall rebellion Of 1969 We assert we Asserted okay the Women's rights with ii with the with the rebirth of Second wave feminism in the late 1960s okay but This Endless okay preoccupation with with a Fragmented Identity We Must Return to be authentic Nineteen Sixties Vision Which is about identity coming from consciousness Which Transcends Gender Which Transcends all These divisions of Race okay and the ethnicity okay consciousness itself okay right There's no sense of That Any longer and That's What the 1960s sought well i see if that is a complete abandonment of personal responsibility Because That Like That Consciousness i think symbolically and i Got a Lot of This from Jung and also from Eric Neumann i Mean That's the Great logos of the west right That's the Transcendent principle Which is is Respect For the Primacy of Individual Consciousness and What Goes Along with that primarily isn't individual Rights although That's built into it i mean That's the reason we have? Individual Rights Is for respect for that but the responsibility That Comes Along With being an individual Instead of The member of some Group especially a Victimized Group Which is like sure i wrote an article with One of My Students Who had toured the mass grave sites in in the former Yugoslavia You Know What Haven't Been Exposed to that sort of Thing and one of The things that our research indicated Was that The best predictor of Genocide is victimization on the part of the Group That Produces The Genocide right a sense of an accelerated sense of victimization and then it's well We Get them before They Get us So and Everyone's being taught Now that They're a victim and then no one Seems To have Any sense That You Know That's part of The essential tragedy of Being That life is suffering and that and That? and That and and that The World rests on a Foundation of Suffering it's nothing to take personally and something to take responsibility for Instead of Blaming and and resentment and all of The Things that Have polluted our Universities and Our culture well and There also Was the abandonment okay of the you know of the canon okay People you know Asserted That The Canon Was the product of bias and again of You know of a you know provincial Elitism and so on but in in point of fact as a Student of History of The arts okay i can i can assure People That the Canon okay oh the overwhelmingly so is is the result of What artists have determined okay we Say a Work is important as canonical Because Artists Following It okay we're Influenced by It we Have This like a Beautiful Cascading tradition of Influence Alright So that That's another but not another part of the philistine ism okay of Current Education to you know to believe That there are these external Reasons okay for for That Why a Work last Why a Work you know 500 Years Ago or a Thousand Years Ago has global relevance relevance As iF it'S some sort of Political Conspiracy That's Based on power as if anybody could Even manage that no matter how nefarious they were but Also We in the 60s even Hadn't had the idea okay then there Was like This Human Human Sensibility like That Transcendent? Individual if The Nation's and and so on right and that and That There was This Like Rubric for Cosmic consciousness okay and this This Sense of the universe as a Whole and Just to see the Human being in relationship to great eternal Principles of life into Death Mortality and so on Whereas you know Marxism is blind Marxism Is Very Narrow All It sees Is a Society okay It sees nothing Beyond Society It Doesn't Seem nature okay it's absolutely Mad How you can Have a System being taught okay in universities right Which It which thinks that This tiny Thing of Society okay compared to the Enormity and Beauty of nature okay should take all of our All of our you know absorb all of Our energy and Attention so i mean i Just think that There's like a Parochialism and provincialism you Know it Now a Kind of you know Systematized Elitism in our Current Education has Got to be Rooted Out and we i want To return to basics great Simplicity side all these Faculty members teaching Their little Tiny Courses that have to has to do with Their own? Specialty That's Got to stop okay People People can Even pursue whatever They want in their private research as Scholars okay Certainly That's Necessary But They must teach in the core curriculum and and and People Must decide What is Crucial for an educated person to know i do want a multicultural i do want a Global Curriculum i want I what all the cultures taught okay right This is not the answer Martin Marxism this neo Marxism in the universities okay is Simply It's lazy It's a lazy Way to assert multiculturalism Without Actually Doing The research of The Study of Other cultures Okay all right That's a Good one to close one we Agreed on everything? yes i know it oh Great

Channel: Jordan B Peterson

Views: 2,054,411

Rating: 4.91289 out of 5

Keywords: Camille Paglia, Jordan B Peterson, Professor, Psychology, Personality, Free Speech, Postmodernism, NeoMarxism, Marxism, Left Wing, Right Wing, Political Correctness, PC, Social Justice Warrior, SJW, Social Justice, Equity, Diversity, Inclusiveness, Politics, Polarization, University, College, Lecture, Literary Criticism, Derrida, Foucault, Erich Neumann, Jung, Freud, Existentialism, The Sixties

Id: v-hIVnmUdXM

Length: 103min 3sec (6183 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 02 2017

Reddit Comments

[u/EnterprisingAss]

Stephen Hicks - an Objectivist - is not right wing? He’s a middle of the road conservative? What fuckery is this!?!

[u/iynx5577]

I haven't ever read Paglia, but I've heard that she was supposed to be somewhat smart and unorthodox. This was painful to watch, and I couldn't get past 20 minutes. It really seems that anti PC crusaders always end up wallowing in reactionary nonsense.

It's a funny thing, this recent fascination with Jung among right wingers. Sorry, 'classical liberals'. Never mind Paglia, I guess she's all about being contrarian, but there's also this article someone had linked recently, that I find more interesting. And it spectacularly misses the point with Jung. Then again, defenders of Western Civilization™ and Reason™ tend to do that with everything.

Jung was very into things like astrology and I Ching, and in a very literal way. His last book was about flying saucers. For the most part of his career he was hesitant about it, but gradually sort of stopped caring and went more and more about alchemy, gnosticism and synchronicity.

What's funny is that, between scientific pretensions and obtuse prose on one side, and esoteric ideas about spiritual wholeness and 'psychoid dimensions' on the other, he was the ultimate trickster figure. And now these people take him as their hero of Western Reason and Spirituality in a war against 'postmodernist academic tricksters'. Well, considering the fact they don't actually read anything, the irony is not surprising.

And actually, that trickster-like (almost postmodern) reluctance to make final conclusions or take anything literally, to the point of being deliberately obscure and enigmatic, is what is most interesting in Jung. Of course, reactionary simpletons are interested only in most banal things like psychological modeling and vapid New Age spirituality. Archetypes=memes, like, totally dude!

There's a great anecdote that Zizek relates in one of his books, about Freud - always more sophisticated and lucid than Jung - unwittingly seeing through this whole jungian archetypal business (ironically, through synchronicity and wordplay) and the primordial lie hiding in its supposed depths, instead of Truth and Wholeness of the Self. And in this anecdote, not surprisingly, the lie takes the well known disguise of anti-semitism.

Freud was actually interested in the occult and possibly thought there was something to it, but considered it detestable. On a related note, there are some (usually insignificant and overblown) grains of truth in the arguments of these crusaders against political correctness. But their whole agenda is intellectually and ethically bankrupt and reprehensible. No matter how they dress it, same kind of ugliness is always underneath and it shows quickly.

I don't like many things in identity politics and PC, but reasonable people understand that certain forms of 'politically correct hypocrisy' are not only unavoidable, but sometimes indeed necessary (as it shows these days) parts of a civilized society. This currently popular, semi-literate mixture of vulgar essentialism and social darwinism is ridiculous, but I'm afraid it is very seductive for uneducated people.

[u/[deleted]]

POST MODERNISM

[u/[deleted]]

Moreso than "regular" youtube videos, these interview/dialogue videos are always so weird to me. These are both educated, professional academics who are agreeing to some batshit insane stuff. And this conversation in particular is... Schizophrenic as all fuck. Like, Paglia thrashes "the postmodernists" for being elitists who weren't in touch with the real, folksy ways of the hippies. And Peterson follows up with... How much he loves Nietzsche? And then Paglia follows that up with an attack on current progressives as being middle-brow and "intellectual midgets"?! Like, motherfucker, which one is it?

AND THEN AT 10:00 SHE SAYS SHE IDENTIFIES WITH WARHOL??? Like.. That's like saying you hate Romanticism and then proclaiming your love for Novalis. Nevermind her fucking dumb rant about people believing in the avant-garde - who the fuck does that in this day and age?

Honestly, I watched 15 minutes and this is extremely boggling to me. Like, the fuck are these people on about? Their words appear to mean literally nothing - as far as I can tell, these are not two people having even an irational discussion, they're simply two lunatics taking turns shouting at each other.

Well, not so much Peterson, but he just seems so... There's no other word for it than stupid. Jordan Peterson is a stupid man. I knew that already, but this video is like knowing someone is overweight and watching them take their clothes off and getting a real good look at the rolls of fat.

Anyway, I got to about the 30 minute mark and had to give up. These people are crazy, but fuck me if they aren't also boring.

[u/Mezziaz]

This video confirms what we all knew :

• Peterson only understands political states of affairs through psychological lenses (in this case, Jungism, pfffrt), of his own admittance.

• Peterson hasn't read any post-modern authors, but has read Hick's dumb book about it and has grounded his entire position on it.

• If men were manly and women womanly the world would be much better, I tell you.

• Paglia is a liberal.

[u/popartsnewthrowaway]

Wait, hang on, he just throws out "my brother, who is a very smart guy, he designed the chip in the...in the iPhone" (whatever that means) at about 57 minutes in (which is the place I randomly went to because fuck this). What the fuck?

[u/russian_grey_wolf]

/u/LiterallyAnscombe

[u/tetrapyloctomy]

Misreading of misreadings, all is misreading.

[u/DanWebster]

Fun to watch Peterson's reactions. He totally wants to interrupt and talk over Paglia on several instances. But he holds his tongue. Gotta keep up the charade of political solidarity in the face of the SJW hoards.