Mo in conversation with... Abdalla Hamdok

[Music] foreign [Music] this event six months ago Our intention to discuss the difficult issue of transition to democracy which you know key issue for us of Africa we have a number of military rules here and there Etc and the challenge of moving a country from a dictatorship into civilian rule well this lack of Institutions process Etc and we thought the case of Sudan would be very interesting where we had 30 years of islamicists dictatorship in the country which squashed all civilian institutions parties Etc change School curriculum trying to brainwash everybody looted the country Etc and how the challenge of moving them after all this time to because you have to remember the young people who carried out revolutions to them were all born under this dictatorship how can young people who brought up under the dictatorship went to school which taught them rubbish how could these people later on change the country how do you what is the challenge what is it and we still need to maybe touch on that because the important issue for us the challenge of building institutions and how to move forward of course events have been very sad events and we witness a major crime today in the streets of cartoon uh we will have those wonderful generals fighting in the city it is just it's just criminal in my view but also I think that is changing the scene we need to talk also about what's happening here first Abdullah welcome and thank you for joining us and uh you have been in the middle of this and I noticed Dr hamduk you have not talked much about what's being going and you have been quite careful in dealing with the delicate situations and but I think it's time to talk now yeah we should thank you very much for uh inviting me to this event you know your theme of this year is about global Africa but I think because of your commitment to home and we say Charities start at home I would like to think you had this special session inserted in this discussion which is really about the globe but I think it's also relevant okay absolutely what he's saying is that I'm a slightly corrupt Ed in his diplomatic way these are sad days for Sudan yeah more than three years ago when I heated the call to go back home and lead the transition our hopes for Sudan things were Rising let me start by saluting the Young women and men who sacrificed their life to topple the longest dictatorship in our recently I'm a born optimist eternal optimist and let me there now to the issue of transition you know transitions by their nature they are non-linear they never travel in a straight line they have their ups and downs but I think the Sudan transition this time is very complex very different I have so many issues with it but you know so well after independence of Sudan in 1956 of course many of our brothers and sisters particularly in sub-Saharan Africa they think Ghana was a very independent African country 1957. we were there just a year before but I think for the more than six decades we did not manage to get our national project right this time in 2019 when we toppled this last dictatorship it was a third uprising you know it General abood in 1964. 1985 those transitions came about in a different environment to this one paradoxically each time we had a military dictatorship the next one that followed is almost double the the the period more brutally and absolutely and more brutal they perfect the game abood lasts for six years the Mary was 16 years this last one was 30 years so you can see to stay for six years now God forbid but I think history yeah yeah yeah but I think let me just briefly maybe point out some of the difficulties of this transition and challenges we have faced take us first through the timeline Revolution started and 28th of December it was the 28th of December when it started yes it took about three four months until Bashir was kicked out and [Music] then we had the set in the great time Revolution time and cartoon people singing Rising poetry people embracing each other and be able from therefore from the south from the north getting together discovering and it was interesting to hear that people in Khartoum did not have enough information about what's happening in Darfur it is it is very interesting to see the social media at the time then we had the massacre of the young people at the time and uh the military thought by killing two three hundred people uh that they're gonna really kill the Revolution and established the rule that did not happen and the street went out again within the 30s when we had the biggest yeah biggest demonstrations and then the soldiers had to sit and negotiate with the civilian and I have my friend La part here where is he where is ah he fell asleep we're talking about Eula battle you fell asleep so he was in the middle of the negotiation and then you agreed some form of uncomfortable marriage between civilians and the military and you were brought by the civilians and their candidate to be prime minister tell us about the challenges you had when you become in this uncomfortable situation you have the military here in the Supreme Council you are a prime ministers senior position I'm not sure how much power really you had little important areas were not under control judiciary which is utterly corrupt was not under you could not do anything about it changing the laws the whole area difference security of course that also police everything is out tell us about this period please before getting into that yeah let me just Maybe on the timelines okay you know we think what the the time of Bashir when he was toppled in April 2019 that was an event yeah but the Revolution was an accumulative Revolution started in 1989 with the coup itself and then the resistance that followed so many uprising 1990 the 28 soldiers who were Massacre then the war in their four the 2013 and a number of other uprising so this has been an accumulative struggle of the Sudanese people culminated in the downfall of the regime in April 2019 the timeline that followed the perfectly outlined it we came to office as I said earlier hearing the call of the nation we formed the ferris government in September we came against a very challenging background in every aspect of life on the political front we had to face a huge expectations and rightly so by our people of course was they sacrificed a lot the expected like the following day everything should be right truth improved of course there is a need to appreciate that there is almost as you rightly put it destruction in every sense mismanagement in every aspect but also within the political challenges we had to manage not only expectations but also ability to stay the course a unified front continued the consensus that toppled the regime it's a very challenging one yeah because everybody was behind that flag but when the regime was overthrown everybody went and lined up behind their party or region or other flags so the seeds of the fragmentation started there this was a very challenging task then also the other elements of the democratic dispensation we had a task of organizing the Constitutional conference you know more so well these three decades long six decades long sorry we did not have a permanent Constitution until now it's a big deficiency then the other one the issues of election law organizing the election itself and all that nothing in that happened and you had no money the economic front and this is probably one of the major challenges we faced a collapsed economy you name it all the market indicators were wrong by inflation the rest of it budget deficit and sanctions tax on tax Sudan was collecting less than six percent of tax to GDP you cannot run a decent government on that then the structural issues of the economy and on top of this the debt mounting debt of over 60 billion then the sanction compounded all this but also the ability to agree in that fragmented space on an economic program you know you have a broad spectrum of use and you know it very well more on our extreme left there are people who don't want to hear the word World Bank and the right and then anything in between how do you manage this an ability to form a program put it together it was a huge challenge then on top of this the transition took place against Civil War in the regions and therefore in the Nova mountains in the Blue Nile that is another 11 militias or 12 well our movements yes I I actually don't call them militia because this is an issue which also points to the complexity the complexity of the relationship between the center and the periphery yeah it's Dynamics it's issues there are issues it relates to underdevelopment marginalization managing of diversity and all these issues so the first task we started the negotiation with this armed groups in in Juba it has its own challenges they are fragmented there are so many which meant at times you have parallel negotiating drugs but also this was part of regional and international interests and issues but we managed we had a partial agreement with you which we call Juba agreement brought most of them in the other challenge is the restructuring and building State institutions as you rightly put it you mentioned the Judiciary it's not the Judiciary only We inherited a dice functional institution 30 years of Destruction civil service public sector on all its even the private sector more than that the political parties themselves Civil Society institutions were all destroyed parties were fragmented as a deliberate policy it's not because they are agreeing on this or that then we had so many other challenges not to mention we are we are very unlucky after six months of the transition the whole world was hit by covet and you can imagine on top of it was also the the the the floods again it's resonate very well with the discussion on and the discourse on the climate change and all that it's a plate full of challenges and we had to manage this in an agreement in a power sharing agreement with the military the Prime Minister had very little probably uh control over so many issues we don't have money thanks to the International Community they came to us it was not do a good deal did he give too much power to the to to the military I don't think so more will give you a chance to comment okay you know when when when when labad carrying the flag of the African Union and the relationship of my brother Musa yeah and the prime minister of Ethiopia also the God and all that when they started engaging the Sudanese project they came at a time followed the massacre of June 3. yeah just barely one month and a half after the change we had that very Massacre the list to say about it and the whole thing collapsed but because of the competition you're trying to access funds from the IMF or the Wallet bank I think that was a nightmare it is because you see we were under sanctions for close to 30 years so they cannot deal with you they can't touch us because first to start any step in this we had to clear the sovereign debt of the multilaterals mdbs the World Bank IMF and African Development Bank and here I would like to thank really the effort exerted by our partners in many parts but the US played a major role in this France you were part of that UK and many others within Norway we appreciate the positives absolutely pay close to 3 billion um debt for this multilaterals so that that would would pave the way for this institutions to allow the sanctions will be to be removed but also it has a very serious impact on the debt issue yeah as I said we inherited about 60 billion of debt for common goals is difficulties it seems to me that the main problem probably which caused the the the setback was the division among the civilian forces at the end yes you had economic problems it took a long time to convince Trump to lift the sanctions when Sudan is no longer a state supporting terrorism actually they put the guys in prison and there's no reason not to lift the but anyway the transactional approach of trampolism administration took a long time which is not helpful over here and also Hotel yeah very serious because you cannot speak to IMF or the Wallet bank before he removes the sanctions absolutely so and then you need it to also you know remove the support for free will and for you know because visual requirements also for the willit bank or the IMF to reform the the uh the financial support for some essential stuff which of course is not very popular and that's a very interesting issue you know of the the economic reform program which we embarked on as part of a discussion with IMF which helped us to reach what we call the fast tracking of the program UCT which allow us to reach a decision point in Epic in six months which is a record time and for that to happen we had to take very serious decisions the subsidy issues was there from the 70s not only started with Bashir successive government and this is true all over the world government are very sort of caution about taking a decision yeah but for us it was very clear the subsidy was meant was supporting a very small segment of our population so the egalitarian issue is not there but also it's absorbing every penny that we have which should go to education to health well we remove subsidy from just fuel not bread not electricity that was very brave but actually absolutely it was very brave but also we had hoped that if the support from the multilaterals would come easily and and fast that would question we Have No Illusion that the the the the that reform program I think there's a there's a point here for the various discussion really about how the slow movement the slow action of the international multilateral organization Etc can really undermine the democratization process it's just they have so many and it is the system it is not the individual I mean I had an endless discussion with David malpas and crystallina and those guys have tremendous amount of Goodwill towards Sudan where hands are tight how to get the whole system really need and I hope our friends and lateral sessions will will carry on that's why I'm saying even this is on Sudan but it resonate very well and talk to the issues that we are discussing today so that happened and then the fragmentation of the Civil Society which bro that that your space your support the people brought you to power those guys really feel about it's true and that enabled now the militaries to start to play games again I think you know from day one I have been impressing on the civilian side of yeah things that it is it was our Unity that tap on the dictatorship and we should not lose track on that we should have been staying the course as a unified front and I I went into so many successive initiatives I put an initiative in June 2021 about bringing everybody together and I was telling them time and again that to protect the transition we need to stay Unified but you see as I said earlier the moment the change happened everybody went under behind their Flags yeah and they started of course demanding all kind of everybody want to have a minister in the cabinet I have this that is part of it but also the programs themselves right some people exactly and when the whole process you just need a democratic country I know after you get a democratic country you guys fight among yourselves and this is against the background of the legacy of the former regime and also the inability to appreciate the strengths of the former regime operators of course we were working so hard trying to dismantle the one the party state in favor of a nation state this is not an easy thing we had needed a unified political front to push for that but I think I don't know this is probably an issue which is not unique to Sudan I would like to think also many of the maybe even the the Arab Spring uh uh probably experiments which point to the fact that you the change has happened but you were facing what I could call an incoherent political leadership a flat structure that takes forever for any decision to happen or agree on anything [Music] yes but what after the fall of the dictator yes we don't have an agreement and that's a problem in a large degree there were so many slogans I was handed in objectives of 14 objectives for the for the transition yes for a few weeks preparing the theater for their cool and I thought maybe you got wind of that you felt that we it was an Open Secret we we call it the creeping coup yeah we discuss it and all that actually two months before the coup of the October 25th October and you were placed under arrest I was arrested first and then you put under house arrest after that yes oh yeah okay so he still arrested but maybe in a better yeah so it's like a prison I have no access to any uh anybody else everything it's very monitored and controlled access right then the street erupted yeah okay and uh a lot of pressure of the soldiers and they came back to you and you negotiated some other form of power sharing you came back to be prime minister a few weeks later saying that was not a deal really it's true you know this is a very interesting yeah object and would like to hear this me I knew we talked about this for a number of occasions you know when I reached the agreement with the military after the coup after one months of house arrest I had four objectives of this number one to stop the bloodshed and it happened number two to put a break on the cool itself in the escalation and essentially to protect the achievement of the two years and a half yes we did a lot of good things I don't want to mention them today I think it is known to everybody what we have achieved in a record time there and then third two again start transition release the political detainees and also reverse the decision that we are made by the military in the ferris week of the coup all that happened for more than a month we were signed this agreement on 21st November it went all the way up to end of December we did all this but I started seeing they were reneging on that agreement and the stroke that broke the Camelback was the 30th of December when killing started to happen again they killed 60 or six of our administrators of our young talent and people so the killing did not stop actually yeah well for a while afterwards but then it started again and I felt well this is something which I I that is not I signed and I made it very clear from day one I took office but the moment I feel that I would not be able to fulfill and work on the things that I committed myself to do I will live okay I never came there with an ambition to have office or anything I just heated the call and the time that I felt this is not working and I resigned I told the Sudanese people that we did good things we did maybe we we got it right we got it wrong in some areas and this is I think there's some important lessons it's a draw out of this and I understand your writing your Memoirs is that correct yes I'm I'm writing if you could call it Moi or a book or whatever but this is this is the support of uh yeah but I think it is really important to draw the lessons from this absolutely not only for Sudan just for the rest of the countries during the and the the one lesson I don't know about you the one lesson I draw from all this never trust the military so my brother Musa with all those crazy soldiers running around and so I never trust those guys never trust power and money are toxic and never trust those guys that is that's right I don't want people to write in your book but you know no no no no I think this is this is an excellent thing I think I guess the Sudanese experience on transition is not only relevant to Sudan it's relevant to many places in Africa and I would like to think even the global sounds so the lessons that could be it is out of this in the thick of writing this but if I can just mention few of them you are absolutely spot on on the military issue okay we agree at least in one one thing here good excellent okay you see but I went all over the world talking about the Sudanese model which is a partnership between military and civilians I remember and I remember listening to you absolutely and I I would always qualify to say the partnership between military and civilians and I would say paradoxically to qualified to build democracy at the store democracy I think this issue would need to be Revisited in the context of the emerging correct I I time for self-criticism yes yeah yeah no but you see issue of right or wrong okay yeah I think more as now you are old and gray life for you cannot be a black or white okay you will have to stay in this gray area where there was there was decisions had to be taken and here I would like to commend the effort made by labad and his team and Au and everybody else was help us it was a time when Sudan was almost collapsing can I ask you really to thank lapat here for the time he's been to kind of stand up and somebody else for the time sorry yeah yeah I'm saying but you uh International Community friends they all helped us for putting together this is a great role the African Union we look forward for really more involved from the African Union and try to solve you talk about African solutions for African problems show us yeah solve the problems now let us fast moving now and who are here today while you are sitting here we have those crazy Generals in cartoon fighting in the capital more civilians dying than their soldiers people intoxicated in my view executed by power money and each of them think they can become the new Bashir what the hell is going on and where we're gonna go from here see more this is a very sad episode and sad situation in Sudan today um War loss of life Devastation in anything you can think about shortage the killing of course and shortage of food medicine shelter security anything you can think about I think whatever the cause is reason that took us here the number one priority today is this war has to stop to stop the fighting to stop today before tomorrow because it has so many ramifications if it's not stopped today how can we stop the fighting before getting to that let me just I would like to take this opportunity to labor a point home the grave situation that has to be addressed and if it is not it will have implications not for Sudan for the region and the world Sudan is the largest country in that area bordering seven countries across the sea Saudi Arabia God forbid if Sudan is to reach a point of Civil War proper engulfing the entire Syria that will be the other places not Syria Yemen Libya will be a small play this is a huge country very diverse ethnic religion whatever I think it will be a nightmare for the world but also we have came to understand and know from this ongoing civil wars in other parts of the origin if you do not address it in the early days of it degenerates into a long fire absolutely and compounded with the current global environment the new geopolitics it has all the ingredients of bringing in various I think more agree and I think all the international info I think we have enough of international invoice here can you stand up please they invoice here yes of course the European Union and the British boys and I don't know anyway they maybe haven't talked somewhere but all those guys here I also saw what we call in UK ABC is here is he around please the Archbishop of Canterbury is trying also to work on in his way also to to help in South Sudan and not only you also the Pope the other day went and and tried I mean these are another set of criminals there but we will see anyway God help you uh why am I able to deal with it so we'll have to ask God to come and help you know it is a nightmare anyway uh sorry we uh how we're going to stop this madness you know I don't think it's uh what are the scenarios what are the possibilities now going from here the possibilities is just for first thing we need to do is to start a humanitarians is there okay which is possible happened everywhere in the world but even if you have War if you are people shooting and bombing from the air and how can you provide humanitarian assistance that can only happen if we have a sustained engagement by everybody which is fire yes yeah you know I would like to think there is a positive thing that happened on this issue of the evacuation yeah so they must have been some sort of an engagement with the with the we are aware of all the questions allowed this to happen I think the same approach could also be sustained and continued to help the generals to allow first stage of humanitarian ceasefire if that holds for a while and we don't have any option but to sustain this pressure from all everybody from Africa Au regard the region Arab life Gulf Egypt the rest of the world the Troika the the quad European Union everybody I think we need to guard against fractions splits and speaking with different kind of approaches or or interest I think this is very important for it for our friends who are here involved in this our we always noticed that when there is a problem of this magnitude and then the do-gooders come from everywhere and we end up with 10 initiatives on the table usually it is used to store any solution yeah I recall Bashir inviting actually various mediator but then wasting time just a waste of time we really hope that everybody works together and it's very important I see the UN sitting next to the African Union I think you need to work together as one the international invoice need to work behind you as one because we need to see one approach there otherwise we will start playing games you know that you are more experienced than me with those people please sorry else no actually that's a very important Point absolutely one it's not safe to fly there is a problem of securing a safe airport for people to fly in because some African leaders were supposed to fly and they're including yourself but you could not find they said a place to land so this is a problem you told me that this war now nobody can reel is a pure Victory they cannot can you be an outright Vector there is that your yes I think so I think this is this is not a war between an army and a small Rebellion group it's almost like two armies two armies yeah yeah so one and well trained well armed and all that yeah so and also you see for us as sudanis we do not believe that even if someone faction claimed victory victory over the corpse and the deaths of your people what victory is this it's total nonsense it's a senseless and there is nobody who is going to come out of this victories that's why it has to stop it's a senseless War it is against everything in the country yeah and hopefully after the war do you think the Civil Society the political parties would have learned from their mistakes which enabled all these nonsense I I really hope so because as you put it there is blames on all sides there are mistakes made by all sides but I also think crisis comes with opportunities if our political space will learn the lesson that there is need to work together we need to work on what you can call a common denominator program exact might not be high politics is an is an art of compromise in the interest of the country because this High programs up left right up down you won't find the country itself to implement it exactly I think it is right to issue a call from here for our Civil Society our political parties our Democratic forces to really come together to get this country into a safe place get your country back first get democracy first get your Constitution first establish your civil rule Ferris and then argue whether you you know what ideology you want what kind but first get your candy first before you decide what colors you want to paint it exactly the point we need we've talked a lot over the last six years about we need to agree on how to govern Sudan not who to govern it yeah if we agree on that establish the basis on which the country can move forward then the issue of who rules leave it to the Sudanese people they can decide this so I think that objective still holds and we need to work on it thank you very much fanatic about the time and we need to be really so I have to watch also the clock here I want to open the floor for questions of or very short statements one minute uh who would like of course you want to speak he signed up please give him a mic thank you chair very very much for this talk for me affectionately it was the most touching debate I attend in this forum I will be extremely brief we have said after the conclusion of talk under the auspices of African Union and with the support of Ethiopia in August 2019 that this agreement is fragile and this agreement will suffer from two major cause of collapse number one is the extreme fragmentation of the political Arena and the military area number two is the wrong way that in Africa in general we deal with transition transition is like a fragile camel if you put too much weight on his back he will fell down so the transition cannot be cannot have any program but to respond to the emergencies of population needs and organizing elections if you put more weight on it it will collapse it is high expectation but it is exactly next morning everything is and we have said yeah the chairperson have said it he hasn't distracted me many times to repeat it we say for all political Arena if you create difficulty for Dr hamdut hamduk you will have one of the two either the chaos or the military regime you have to choose so they have no choose but unfortunately what I have outlined very clearly in a book I have published on this experience Dr hamdu knows that very much is that the lack of governing culture who has the major weakness of this a very large scope of political Arena so this is we have one day to withdraw the lesson but now the focus should be unfollowing issues and that is where we are working in African Union with United Nations with European Union with League Arab with regard with Troika with with all those who want to be involved stop the war immediately how we have to put our Collective and common pressure on the two general to make them stop it and to threaten them I say that very clearly that if they don't do so they will expose themselves to the criminal tribe because they will become maybe a war criminal so we have to make the more the most strong the most strong weight on them to stop if we do that collectively in the same way without any rivalry without any Divergence I am sure that it will bring the result number two that we have very urgently to open humanitarian corridors coming from Chad coming from Central African Republic coming from Ethiopia coming from Egypt coming from everywhere to alleviate the suffering of the population and the third we have to ask civil society and political and political parties and all those who are not holding weapon to raise to raise their voice it is time you have said at the beginning that Dr hamduk speaks I know that he has spoke a little bit but he has to spoke more loudly and he has to spoke with hundred thousand of politicians of Civil Society militant we should not only listen to the voice of weapon we have to listen to the voice of the people and its Elite thank you [Applause] I can take one or two questions I see a lot of hands here I I'm embarrassed to choose you choose hello [Laughter] okay okay and I'm from Sudan and it's a pleasure seeing you both here and I'm I'm glad to see all of you engaging in trying to find the solution for Sudan I want to tell an answer of the story of what's happening at the moment to my family and cousins that we had to evacuate from cartoon to safety but one of my cousin families their house was taken over by the irsf they were forced to cook food for them and if we hadn't have managed to evacuate them in time they were going inside the house these are where only four girls there and they had to sneak at night to avoid a catastrophic implications that that could result in rape as we've seen of what the militias could do or what the first now when you talk about victory in Sudan or when you talk about stopping fires how do you deal with a force that is has a culture of a brave and violations and looting and how can you imagine a scenario where both of them exist in the country and hope for democracy and hope for isn't that a little bit of a wishful thinking for for all of us to imagine that there is a a group that is capable of of of committing these sort of crimes against civilians on ground that we're witnessing that they will just give up you know to to these calls and to these things this is the first thing and the second thing I think one thing is enough to allow please go ahead we said one minute please everybody because we're running out of time Mercy hello an opportunities to Mr Abdullah what are the lessons that we can draw from the failure of this position in Sudan to support the other transitions which are ongoing in West Africa as my friend lebat said the first conflict that it comes between the politicians and the Junta is the definition between the the transition the military people wants to refund the the state do another sentences do everything before giving the power to the civilians and the political party which are able to go to the elections that have enough people to vote for them they want the mission of the transition to mainly be focused on the organization of Elections what are the conditions together before we go to the elections in our case what brought us to set a deadline that was not good for the military for the length of their transition because the military wanted the political parties to submit a report on the mission and the deadline of the transition we political parties we said the only mission is to gather and everything that should lead us to inclusive and transparent elections and for that we need a file a a an organization that will deal with the election we need material technical operator and all this would not take more than 12 to 15 months and for them they risked their lives to take the power and with they don't we don't want them to continue taking advantage of this and they needed 40 months or more so this is the conflict what are the lessons that we can draw from the failure of the transition in Sudan because I think there is a failure because there is and the associations of civilians to manage the transition as you know in Guinea we started calling a former uh um a person working at the United Nations but there are divergences between him and the Junta so he easily negotiated his withdrawal because he didn't want to have any uh confrontation with the military because but I assume it as a statement what we'll do we're gonna check the recording to uh to understand what you said by apology uh please is that statement or question is that a statement or question okay and my question is looking at what is happening in Sudan do you does he think the decisions taken earlier on for a coup or false for removal of a government was the best thing to do I think Africa must start to look at other ways and at that I was wanting to answer that because you said you said question no questions okay thank you uh deal with that question the cool can you repeat the question he did not or false for removal of a government in spite of the difficulties is the best option well that's the removal of which government which school why had so many foods [Laughter] come from one cool to another cool to a transition and all of the challenges that are now attending in a situation where everybody is now in a crisis is that a right option to to we are all against military cruise I mean uh will tell you we suspend people who have no I don't what's the question yeah let's be very clear I don't think coup is an option at all to restore democracy or whatever I don't think we should guard against this I think the idea of this emerging cause in West Africa also in Sudan and I thought as it was said I think Yesterday by by President Ruto that we thought this military coups are an act of the past we should guard against this we I thought our sister who agreed here that never trust the soldiers we agreed that yes everybody agrees that never trust the soldiers but I think we need to have a much more in-depth discussion about the role of the military in politics this is something we need to put it on the table discuss it with them and reach a point where they need to go and do the things that they are trained to do and not to involve in the politics the idea of the military being part of under the civilian control and all this the job as a military is to be at the border to protect the country absolutely and I don't see many countries in Africa are under foreign threat I don't think many countries want to invade you guys and so we spend all this money on all those generals and what we do they come to the capital and they shoot us we wait for these bullets we pay it for their uniform and every guy holding a stick and going around I don't know what is this we really need to ensure in future the civilian control of the military on this side take the last Point here maybe one last point because we're running out of time you choose yeah my uh can speak yeah Abdullahi you always make statements it's a question no no no you make a question on yes okay microphone give me a microphone please um kin is okay we I am I just wanted more you are controlling this more I'm not sharing this session who was controlling the mics here that's why we talk about civilian control you know okay thank you I just I want to pre-face why I want to preface my question but it's okay when you you raised a important question I hope this this Gathering here will look at the role of the military in Africa we don't need armies I'm telling you but that's a comment and I don't want to die but first Mr Prime Minister Sudan is in a a special sub-region wealthy countries to what extent they are they believe in Democratic dispensations is something that I don't want to comment on but don't you think that really to solve the issues in Sudan the the is the top region that should take the primary role because if they let what's happening in Sudan continue they themselves would would have problems eventually so how do you mobilize your sub-region do you believe that they should take the primary role and if so how do you mobilize their support to really bring this madness that's happening in Sudan yes for sure I think this is definitely we go with the motto of the African solutions to African problems we are very happy to go through that but also I think the leaders of this region immediately after the crisis they met under the I think an invitation from president Ruto they met here and they took a decision by forming a committee of three presidents and we hope they will be able to reach the country but also I must say that the effort that is spearheaded by the region has to work in Tandem and in harmony with the rest of the world the region we need the African union we need the Arab League the EU we need the neighbor we need the quad the world all of them the U.N role and I think all this if we will we are to put all this effort in one sort of direction that will help us solve this crisis any fragmentation in this is counterproductive we should guard against that and that Spirit may be our brother musafaki you need to have a word with the three African countries sitting at the security Council who blocked the solution saying igat should make resolution no security Council you should make resolutions together not block each other because the Optics was terrible I read in the newspapers in British newspaper African countries block the U.N security Council resolution on Sudan and say oh my God that is not it's not right looks very bad absolutely more we need somebody in the gravity of the situation somebody needs to talk to those guys say hey you need to work together not to appear to be paralyzing the security Council uh I think because time is I know there are a lot of issues please the chairperson want to make a statement please come here for my my translator um I would simply like it's not working Arabic yes 20. I called for a meeting for the whole International Community yeah U.N Arabic translation European Union African the E3 is African member of the security Council yeah the objective is to coordinate the International Community position on Sudan yeah we set up a following up group African Union egad un EU Arab League all of them okay we want the International Community to use one voice in this issue so we are working together excellent no the solutions should be a Sudanese Sudanese let process yeah supported by the region and the International Space the Continental organization and all it is absolutely necessary as you know Sudan is in a geographical specific position the history of this country we should absolutely take on count this reality thank you very much while you are standing up I have a small question for you yes go ahead are you ready at some stage to send these keyboards to cartoon absolutely I was ready to travel yeah because this is who we're gonna monitor it and you know I am ready even going by Route I asked two generals to create the condition for us to go to Khartoum and to deal with them immediately please thank you very much thank you thank you that's what he wants from the African Union really uh allow me to really thank my friend Dr Abdullah hamdock a man who really tried hard to establish a democratic state in Sudan the project is not finished yet and I hope somehow it will it will happen even after all this blood will manage still to get back our country thank you Abdullah please very much [Applause] [Music]

Channel: Mo Ibrahim Foundation

Views: 58,010

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Id: pi8X22v8U-M

Length: 63min 49sec (3829 seconds)

Published: Thu May 04 2023