Midlife Happiness with Siobhan Freegard

hi welcome everyone Hi Siobhan it's lovely to have you here thank you thank you for joining us for this event on midlife happiness um I think we were last together at an action happiness event in 2011. uh so it seems a long time ago but it's great to see you again looking at the people that went where everybody's coming from there's so many people from America all the way brilliant Global audience and thank you to everyone 's joining us fantastic to see hundreds of you joining for another live action for happiness event I'm Mark Williamson it's uh so good to have you here for this very warm and kind-hearted community so please as always keep it friendly in the chat you will have a chance to ask uh Siobhan questions during this event and we're also going to be as always trying to make it interactive and get all of you involved um but mainly this is a chance for me to explore this fascinating topic of midlife happiness with someone who I think is done so much uh on the on the subject of happiness and is now really bringing this subject of midlife happiness to life and I've already had some brilliant conversations with Siobhan so as many of you will know Siobhan founded uh net mum's incredibly um successful um site initiative having had a successful career before that and has been an author and has been doing a huge amount of work supporting happiness and well-being for women for parents for families um in various different ways so I thought um well maybe we could start with you giving us a little bit of that story and perhaps bring us up to date with what's got us onto this topic of midlife happiness today's event yeah I'm very proud of myself for talking on midlife happiness because it's an acceptance isn't it that you've reached that stage of life um and I would just like to say I've done my hair and makeup but I did give you a photo this morning didn't I where I looked at anything but um anything but hair and makeup where I got myself into my running gear this morning and I said to Mark I'm going to challenge myself to see if I've been for a run by the time we do I talk tonight it was the most real it was it was the most real photo you could ever have so I would just like to um did you get for your run well I got my running gear on at nine o'clock in the morning and by three o'clock in the afternoon I decided it would be really nice to be able to say do you know what I didn't but that's okay because we need to be kind to ourselves I thought that'd be a good you know good message and I definitely had a bit of a I could feel you know but in the end my pride got the better of me and I did and I did go and I hate running I mean it's just I I'm the least I'm the least athletic and the least I just I I don't like watching sports I don't like doing sports but somehow just that little pot around the block just makes me feel better and I went out and I was like you know what you're running you're 55 and it's cold and you've got a bit of a sore and you're running and that's a gift in itself isn't it so yeah thanks to you I actually thanks to you guys because I I didn't really want to sit in front of you and go do you know what it's okay if you don't do it because it is okay if you don't do it but it's better if you do it so um yeah how did I get here well I think the the first thing I really want to say is there's I think certain arrogance when you see somebody talking about happiness you know you see the how to be how to be happy and be happy and what's happy like who's happy happy is is a moment in life that come along and I'm sure no I'm not an allergist I'm psychologist so you know I'm not I'm not brilliant at any one particular thing that an artist that brings me happiness um the only reason I feel I've got permission to talk about happiness is that I have been unhappy at kind of key points in my life so the the first real learning for me was I I had a wonderful career and a wonderful husband and you know happy life and I was going to put the cherry on top of the cake of my life and have a baby um and I had this beautiful perfect baby after perfect birth and everything was perfect only it wasn't and I ended up with quite severe postnatal depression not so much that I was ever kind of hospitalized or um I never actually tipped into psychosis which can happen to a lot of people but enough to be really really really miserable anxious all the time it took away all the joy of that sort of early motherhood and I'm not like look at me I'm not a depressed I thought there was a depressive sort of person um and it was the the biggest education of my life it was three years of of being extremely unhappy um and I worked through it and it wasn't easy and you know it was everything from medication counseling steps by step day by day better days worse days in between days until you know slowly and I ended up having another baby and having I had the joy of motherhood with my second baby and luckily with my third as well but it was it was you know really hard so that gave me I felt permission to talk about happiness and I ended up writing a book called How to be a happy mum which sounds really smug but with the back story I hope it doesn't um and life was wonderful after that and I went on I started a business about a business a community an online kind of social network for mums mums as you call them in the US were were the same but were different aren't we um and life kind of I I was I was a really great mom but I to be I had to be the best mom you know so I was sort of pretty hard on myself over a career motherhood um Good Wife Good Sister good daughter good everything else and then I got to kind of you know 45 and I remember saying to my mum in the kitchen one day and when I was in Ireland you know there's been a lot in here isn't it you know the Gaga she's got one of those old-fashioned Irish August she said yeah she's like the yoga makes it very hot in here and she went oh Siobhan you're probably approaching and I went downstairs and she said well no it's completely normal I would no mum don't say it don't say the m word of course she was talking about the change as she calls it or menopausal we call it now and I was like no it's not happening and she went well it happens to everyone and you know Irish mummies and I was like no it doesn't don't talk about it and that was that that I used that as an example of how anti-aging I was I mean I you know I think you asked me some really poignant questions when we had a chat yesterday and I I was fighting this all the way you know I'm a fighter um but age and as I say time stops for no man or no woman and here I am and I'm 55 and even just saying that out loud it's like the more I say it the more accepted I'm 55. well I think we're going to come to this theme of acceptance as one of the things we talk about but that's really helpful context and thank you for being so open about your own Journey um Siobhan I thought maybe we could take a pause at this point and just connect with our lovely Community um who are already active in the chat I wondered if we could just ask everybody what kind of words and feelings uh do you associate with this idea of midlife or middle age maybe if you wanted to share a couple of words that come to mind for you wherever you are right now in the world um I've seen boring low mood Freedom growth irrelevance invisible marriage breakdown decrepitude crisis regrets uh boredom again contentment past it mood swings my body is repelling patience weight gain unfashionable tired disappointed wow uh forgetful growing up uh transition Karma job changes um disability anxious scary wisdom um opportunities misunderstood and so it continues wow that's a very um powerful list how are you feeling as you you hear those things Siobhan yes to yes to all no wonder we fight it it's this sort of realization that you're not relevant anymore that life is behind you not ahead of you um so there's a sort of physical and emotional and mental symptoms of the menopause but there's also this this this this thing in front of you which is the best is behind me I mean the the the all the old Expressions always have some wisdom in them but over the hill and you know that's what I was facing I felt I was facing the end the beginning of the end I'd had my life in fact my daughter who's adorable but um a truth Sayer um one day they were all their teenagers they were all going out and I was like oh I wish I was coming with you and she went but mum you've had your life and I was like it was it was you didn't really mean it in a hurtful way but but God it hit home I was like you know she's right I actually have I need to stop stop wanting to go out and and have fun with the kids um so that sort of over the hill that that along with the changes to your body you know the fact that your waistline just disappears as I say I've never been you know athletic but I've always been kind of active and you know I've always been able to fit into a decent pair of skinny jeans and you know a nice dress but suddenly your body just changes and everything thing and when I say suddenly it kind of it creeps up on you but then suddenly you look and you're like oh I'm matronly you know I'm I'm and you can't fight it it doesn't matter how much you well I think that's a little bit of a problem because you do look at you know how does Jennifer Allison look like that I mean she's my age how is her body like that um so so you start comparing yourself to other people I've also got um as I say a daughter who's who the early 20s and two sons who have girlfriends in their early 20s and they come home wearing it a little crop tops and and um you know really cool funky little dresses uh in the summer they're in bikinis hanging out just you know completely like at ease but I'm like I'm sure I wasn't that at ease most of myself when I was that age but they're so gorgeous and that glow of use and it's never coming back and and you know it's it is a kind of a it's almost like a grief a letting go of that part of your life um and I would say it's taken me you know probably 45 was was when I could just about feel I could get away with it to 55 where I now feel I'm starting to accept who I am what I am where I am but in the middle of all of that of course I got and we will talk about the menopause we will bring us back to that because I think it's such an important subject for women we cover that specifically and in fact for lots of events where we've done things about different aspects of life it's been a topic that's come up so I really love it so maybe but I also wanted um and say thank you to everyone for sharing what they did in the chat it's still coming now and it's really moving to to to see these real life experiences and perceptions and I just wanted to sort of say thank you to Kate who in the chat said um it really helps to know other people feel like I do group hug so I think there's something here about the um the togetherness sensor like this is actually something that we all go through in different ways at different times along our life's journey and what I hope we're going to take from this event is that's okay that's normal and in fact it isn't over the hill it's the beginning of a new part of our journey that can be actually incredibly hopeful and exciting and life-affirming and fulfilling in many different ways so I hope so and I think again I only have permission to talk about this because of course I did it really badly you know so I went from that stage of it's coming up to reaching this point where I actually thought when I first had children um I thought that the only thing that really matters is getting my youngest to 18. you know once they're once they're once I kept once I've stayed alive to get them to adulthood kind of my job is done I had this Terror of you know dying when my children were small and leaving them motherless it was you know I think a lot of women experienced that um and of course the youngest reached 18 and I was still here and they were still here and life was going on and you know I'd had this great career and um I made some money we had this beautiful house and I I was just so empty inside I my my key thought was I'd happily die today happily no I wouldn't kill myself but I would happily die today because I've done everything I've had you know a great childhood lucky me a lovely family my dad's gone he was you know my hero um my children are grown I've had a career I don't want to travel there's nothing I want to do I would happily die today and say thank you God for a wonderful life and I look back on that that girl now where that woman wasn't that you know that wasn't that many years ago and that that's just really sad isn't it that I got to that I didn't think I was depressed maybe I wasn't it was just this sort of stage I got to where I just had no plans for the future no desire no excitement no love of life nothing just completely and again Siobhan you're certainly not alone with that and I think maybe we should share with the audience if anyone's not coming across this idea of the U-shaped curve of Happiness so those of us who who focus on the sort of well-being research know that it's actually Universal across many cultures where people are generally have high levels of happiness in their sort of younger years maybe age 20. and actually rather surprisingly in their later years um you know beyond 65 and actually into relatively late in life but actually in the middle of that there's this sort of u-shaped trough almost I think it's almost exactly the age I am now which is 49 where people are on average least happy and of course there are many reasons for that so it's a young family um often it's aging parents certainly um something that lots of my contemporaries are dealing with right now loss of loss of parents um you know challenging times at work obviously physical changes um you know you know we've talked about menopause but obviously the both both genders or you know experienced physical changes um so I guess there's lots of understandable reasons why it's a really high pressure time so again maybe it's a starting point is just to recognize this is perfectly normal but actually what I love about that U-shaped curve and I don't know if you're feeling in the same way about this but actually in some ways the only way is up uh from this point which I found quite um quite inspiring and I think I I I'm not a scientist and I I tend to talk about things anecdotally and then I'm wrong so somebody do correct me if I'm wrong but I think that the sort of the happiest comes about around 60 because you've sort of been through you've brought up your children you've been through you know all of those um you sort of you've you've kind of got to wherever you're going with your career although that doesn't mean you're not working anymore you've got this level of acceptance you've still got your health and then that's one of the things that you know we need to do is someone's just said 60 is amazing I can't wait I'm actually looking forward to it now um and you're you're ready for the next bit of your life and then of course health problems start and that's where the curve starts going down again because when you're ill it's very hard to I guess although actually what's really interesting is that tent I mean again we're very blessed in many many of us who happen to live in a in a culture and society which does support Health into older age then it certainly we ever have done in human history before yeah but actually that happiness level maintains until well into the 80s and often um you know right so towards the end end of life which is fantastic if we can well it's the only reason I keep doing this bloody awful running is because apparently if you stay you know if you keep a bit stronger then you live better not necessarily longer but you live stronger better during the time that you are alive so it's not necessarily about prolonging life it's you know you can live till 100 and be ill and that's no fun at all but if you can live to you know I don't know 80 and be a healthy or or longer so it's about I think all I think that's a nice important Point thank you for raising that so often the researchers talk about quality of life Years or or health span not just lifespans it's not just about how long you live it's about making sure those like those years are still vibrant and healthy and enjoyable so I guess being action of Happiness we're we'd be really Keen to come on to some of the action suggestions I think we've reframed this situation really well it is what it is we're kind of you know um either reluctantly or happily accepting um transition in our lives what are some of the things you'd like to share as being really helpful as we sort of look at optimizing should we say our midlife well-being um I suppose should I really should I probably share the story of how I got over the hump of the hill and didn't didn't you know from from being that person who just didn't want to live anymore I don't want to say that because that sounds like I was suicidal and I wasn't I just would have been happy if there'd been a button and it was like you can press this button I'd happily pressed it what was it that helped you make the transition into the state of mind you're in that I I it wasn't a helpful way and and that's one of the reasons I talk about it because I so what's the word suppressed suppressed everything um and you know I stayed being a good wife and a good mother and a good daughter and a good good worker and um I kind of had I suppose what would have been called a midlife crisis if I was a man in the old days who would have gone off with a younger woman and bought himself a sports car and um you know whatever the cliche used to be but I didn't mean to but I just blew up my life something in me went you're not going to listen to me so and it was a bit like with postnatal depression I wasn't listening to myself and what I needed from my life as a new mum and something inside me went well if you're not going to listen I'm going to make you and it was almost like the same thing happened but this time it was a bit more dramatic and I no one needs to know the details of my life but I blew it up I blew up my marriage I kind of blew up my career um so the my beautiful house um you know my beautiful life sounds like a talking head song doesn't it but it was um it it it went and I you know we we sort of we started from scratch um and it was three really difficult years of rebuilding um life as I suppose a single mum with my three children um who are now adults so that was a whole transitional thing as well and it you know it it is not a route I would recommend anybody go through so whatever you're feeling take it in stages and try not to to try not to blow it all up because you know people do get hurt and it was hard for people around me and it was hard for me as well and it was not the way I would have chosen to gracefully it certainly wasn't a graceful entrance to to middle age it had taken me until like the last couple you know only even even talking to you yesterday when you talked about acceptance I was like I'm actually at the acceptance stage but it was very gradual um and and that's life isn't it and going back to I suppose the the running using it as a metaphor life is never gentle it's it's a series of Sprints and jugs and walks and crawls and falling over and getting injured and you know sometimes you just have to go to bed but you have to get back up again and if you can't get back up you need somebody to get you back up so I had enough wisdom from having had postnatal depression to realize that I needed to do something now once I'd kind of come out of this crash um and I um I I you know I got a therapist I talked to people I've never talked about postnatal depression for a long time because I was ashamed of it um I was ashamed of mental illness and thank God we've moved on so much with the the diet you know the dialogue around Mental Illness but it's still quite hard to talk about as a mum because you feel perhaps you're you know you're a failure um so I mean just to I I mean I really are grateful for you being so open about this Siobhan and I'm sure it's inspiring many others I just saw somebody in the chat asking about you know obviously the relevance for men here as well so maybe I I just like to really briefly do the same which is to sort of I mean my Journey's been a little bit different and um I feel very fortunate to have to do what I do now but I had a sort of you know life crisis that led to me leaving a a commercial career having severe sort of health problems with like a stress induced back pain and eventually found my path to really caring about mental well-being and I've had the joy of doing this for the last 10 years but there was certainly some rocky moments along the way so I think you know um I can relate to you and and of course you know hopefully bring in a male perspective of a similar sort of wrestling with like what's it all about where am I going with my life um what's my identity what really matters all those questions that go around with us so much of it is is I think similar maybe I'd like to say women are better at talking about things than men that's only my experience having run an online you know quite a large online community um and trying to bring dads in yeah dads didn't want to engage in the same way online as as mums did but maybe they do in the pub with their mates but you know there is a lot of there's a lot of loneliness there's still a lot of loneliness out there yeah and of course there are there are differences in how they're teaching some of the chats just sort of said that men are celebrated and women are ignored and I think there are some prejudices around some of life's transitions that can be different for for men and women as well which we need to hold them as they are but let's come on to some of the things that have really helped so I one of the things that's really struck me and I don't know if you agree but I found that what what people call the basics have been enormously helpful in a way that I thought perhaps you know I kind of ignored them but things like getting enough sleep eating less sugary crap and more sort of natural food being regularly active cycling has become my thing and I don't drink alcohol anymore you gave up alcohol I never I never thought I'd be saying that but a few years ago that happened um so so what sort of things a lot I mean have you found some of those Basics to be nourishing for you as well I think you should talk about giving up alcohol because that's something we could all learn from well certainly I could um it's I don't know being Irish I actually saw a lady on here from Donegal but um so hello my dad was from Donegal but um yeah there's such an Irish culture thing isn't it you know everything revolves around celebration have a drink something goes wrong have a drink someone dies have a wake you know everything revolves around alcohol so as you get out just pretty things you asked I mean I I had always enjoyed drinking as a social thing and of course as a teenager I guess it was a way of getting confidence and then a few years ago I'd become rather too into my sort of craft beers and and one night said something that I kind of regretted to a loved one and then thought why am I doing this and about the same time rather tasty alcohol-free beers emerged and I started drinking those instead and realized I could still do all the sociable things well that needing to have up on Golf and in fact I was in talking about Ireland I was in Ireland with my family my dad's Irish and I took the kids over for the first time this summer and I managed to get a pint of Guinness alcohol free you know which they're now doing pugs which is like wow this is pretty remarkable so anyway brief interviewed on that topic but what sort of things have helped you would you say I mean I think it is that I was again the sort of the you know back to the rebel I don't need to embrace these silly diets and these Health fads and you know eat more vegetables and green stuff and you know I lived on biscuits and I was proud of it I would have you know I'd have four custard creams with a cup of tea before I even got out of bed and then I'd have a you know a chocolate bar on the tube on the way to work and that was just you know there's a way I rolled um but you just can't do that after a certain age in the same way that you know the kids will get out a bottle of vodka um you know I I I'm sort of I'm very very careful about what I drink now not just because um you just don't have the capacity anymore and the the sort of the implications the next day and even the day after that are just just too great and it doesn't matter how much you you know you want to fight against that I'm sorry your body is just telling you and it's exactly the same with healthy eating I have I have introduced so much better I'm probably where most people should be normally you know but I finally got to a level where you know I I eat yogurt and I make sure I have some greens and and it's a virtuous circle you know if you do a little bit of exercise and it'll add a little bit more healthy food into your life then you feel a little bit better therefore you don't want to drink as much alcohol therefore you want it you feel better when you wake up or you sleep better and then you go for that run and you get this sort of virtuous circle and I'm full between virtuous circles and vicious circles but again that's life none of us are perfect and it's over okay to get it wrong rebalance and not in a dramatic way right I'm going on you know the strictest cabbage soup diet or whatever the latest thing is I think that's the one thing we probably know by now ladies and gentlemen but they don't work you know they work for five minutes they don't work you have to introduce you know but small changes for me anyway because if I talked about lifestyle changes that were enjoyable and can become lifelong rather than fat things isn't it but let's come on as you promised to to the menopause which is such an important topic and I think as as absolutely a non-expert although lots of my loved ones and friends are sort of in that stage of their lives um one of the things that seems obvious to me is that we're talking about it loads more which is fantastic I mean in the UK there's been Divina McCall's documentaries and there's been just a lot more conversation in workplaces on that's got to be good but what would you like to say about this all-important topic um I think it's absolutely amazing it's been talked about I mean the Davina effect as they call it over here in the UK Davina Cole's famous TV celebrity presenter and she's done two very very impressive documentaries on the subject and you know lots of people have um are now talking about it quite openly in their social media um influencers doctors people um with Solutions of All Sorts um they tend to be all gorgeous which kind is the one thing that you know perhaps doesn't help because you know DaVita is also a fitness I mean maybe that's why she's gorgeous because she's so fit and she's so but there's there's an awful lot of women that we don't see who are suffering um who who don't you know I I remember seeing a picture on Instagram and I think it's honestly genuinely I'm not saying anything about celebrities they all went to the house of Parliament and they did something about you know menopause in the workplace but God they were all gorgeous you know they just they they were they were they they didn't look to me what feels like men menopause so it is Raising awareness but it's also I don't even know if this is a good message but I suppose the message is I also know an awful lot of women who've gone through it very differently they've gone you know I've I've been I've been doing work with individual women who can get off the sofa you know they've put on two three stone going to the corner shop is beyond their capabilities today um you know women who get really really seriously um down depressed their body gives up on them they can't sleep they comfort each they get just get into this sort of cycle mental physical their body aches therefore they can't exercise um and you know it's it's just it's such a combination of physical emotional and mental that it's hard to separate you know again I'm sorry I keep going back to postnatal depression but that's what my experience is it hormones that cause the postnatal depression or do your hormones change once you get the you know what what is it is it because of something that happened in your past which for me I unraveled some stuff which helped me it's just a big combination of things it's very complicated but instead of why what can we kind of do so the symptoms I think women find that there's the obvious ones is the hot flushers um the the sort of the weight gain the um I'm sure ladies I'm sure you can you can add to this list um there's you know there's there's aches and pains there's other things that are kind of obviously physically related to the menopause and then there's the emotional ones which um can be things like anxiety um you can't sleep therefore you feel even worse the next day the anxiety get the anxiety gets worse and the sort of the depression the you know what I felt that kind of emptiness um and I'm seeing people in the chat adding in insomnia brain fog lack of concentration yeah brain fog was was for me the biggest shark because I've always had pretty you know good recall pretty sharp able to think on my feet I couldn't get the so many women say they think they've got early onset dementia because you literally you're on the verge I go I can't remember what I was going to say and it'd be literally gone like no recollection of it whatsoever and the inability to find the right word for something like the inability I would be going the you know that thing where you can't find but you you you should be able I can't remember it I just couldn't get the word for anything it was it was quite horrifying um so one of the things that quite a few people have shared with me is that um HRT or hormone replacement therapy can be enormously helpful um I I think for some there may be some sort of stigma associated with it or some misunderstanding but it's like generally your sense because that seems to be the message now which is actually do really reach out for help and actually for many people that HRT can be life-changing there's I think 34 symptoms of the menopause which I now think they've put up to 48 um and Counting so so I've got to put some links afterwards aren't we or somewhere that you can sort of see what symptoms are um HRT again I'm not a doctor so you know just just to qualify that but again I think we're going to put some links up to some doctor's advice afterwards um HRT had had a really bad reputation because of some trials it went through where it became associated with breast cancer in fact that research has now been been debunked isn't quite the right word because I don't think anybody ever meant to um give out false information but but information came out that led to people believing it could lead to breast cancer and therefore women overnight stop taking their HRT and for a long time it became something that people wouldn't even doctors didn't want to prescribe it so that is a huge education piece that has kind of re-emerged in the last few years HRT saves no I shouldn't say it says lies but it probably does um for many for I would say the majority of women whose doctor will prescribe them HRT they find a dramatic Improvement it's not a complete cure-all in the same way that antidepressants for depression you know you have to get the dose right you have to play around with different levels of hormones um some people need to add testosterone some people need progesterone we haven't talked about sex I don't know if we're allowed to talk about sex on here are we um I won't go too far but you know what I think it's important there's men and women on here and and absolutely during the menopause age is when the vast majority of women of that age initiate divorces so there's something going on you know and and sex is an important part of a loving relationship but for women it can become uncomfortable um therefore it's you know no fun for either of you therefore you stop trying um so that's something that HRT can also help and that can be done either by pessaries or by the actual HRT that you you know that you take um and we're sitting in the chat here exactly reflecting what you're saying so a lot of people saying it's changed my life but then also others talking about side effects and suggesting that it's had problems for them so I think again it's seeking the right support but also you know what works for one person may not be you won't necessarily work for another but let's come on to relationships though because I want to leave time for all the great questions that are coming up from the audience um but but you hinted at relationships there and I guess as you said this is a time of life when a lot of relationships can potentially break down for for you know menopause related reasons or indeed wider reasons around like this big sort of changing going on in in all of our Lives what what what's your sense of how we we can respond constructively to that not every relationship forever um I was married for 25 years I was with my husband for 30 years he's a good man it was a good marriage we have three good children great children so it but it wasn't going to last it just didn't it wasn't going to last forever but neither did we nurture it you know we were so busy being a great family we were like a we were a unit of five as opposed to a couple with three children and I've been watching my peer group as we've grown up and there was always those couples that seemed to kind of put themselves first not not that they didn't not that their children weren't nurtured but they as a couple came first and the children were part of their their their relationship their you know they were under the relationship and then there's the families where they became this kind of family unit and I remember thinking we're great because we're a family unit you know you're a couple with children um but actually it's the ones who nurtured their own relationship who have better relationships now that they're entering their 50s and 60s and you could say maybe that's because their relationship was more solid from the beginning I don't I really don't know but a relationship is a living thing it can't just be put on a shelf for 20 years while you're dealing with the children and then come back to each other and go oh yeah let's start you know start where we left off when we were we were 20 or 25. so I would whatever the circumstances if it's possible nurture each other and and you know try to keep your relationship going because for me the the biggest regret is that I won't get old with the father of my children and see my grandchildren and you know it it's it's it's it's that must be the most beautiful outcome um for a couple in a relationship on the other hand um and my sister who's also divorced my poor Catholic dad would turn in his grave luckily he is um but she she divorced from a more difficult relationship and as she was told it's better to come from a broken home than grow up in a broken home and you know it was the right thing for her so so I'm not gonna like start on the whole issue of divorces except that divorces are brutal they're whether they're wanted by you know one party whatever the reason they are they are brutal um not always there are people who do it as I say use that word again gracefully um and in fact my sister actually did write a book on um untying the knot where she and her ex managed to do it with with absolute just just pure grace and he she now has another partner but her children's dad come and his parents come to my mum's house for Christmas and everybody sits around the table together and her new partner and her ex-husband will go for a pint and go and watch the her boys playing football together and get it so it can be done yeah and I think that's actually a really important Point Siobhan which is um in some ways the particular configuration of relationships in our lives don't matter as much as the sort of the tone of the relationships in our lives and whether they feel toxic or whether they feel constructive and in fact in in next year we've got a in January we've got an event with Professor Robert waldinger who has been running this famous Harvard study following people for many decades and the result that comes out again and again that seems to most predict lifelong happiness and Health and Longevity is the overall quality of our relationships and having having sort of positive and nurturing relationships in our lives and yes that might be the person that we married and had children with but it might not be and it might be that something changes or it might be that you have different people but I think what what absolutely is worth us all nurturing is some of those connections whoever they're with close and loving and and kind and supportive I think that's loneliness is just as we all know and I'm sure you've talked about it many many times loneliness the time I was most lonely was when I was a new mum with depression with a small child and expressed him and luckily the last time I've ever felt truly lonely and it was when Mother Teresa's words about how loneliness is worse than um you know abject poverty in her opinion that I understood what she meant um so yeah nurture those people that your you know your friendship group or make new friends like people so many people are lonely and they're living on the same street as us um it's always seemed to me a kind of a what's that word again and there's nothing to do with brain fog but what's that word it's like an oxymoron no yeah where there's so many only people all living in the same street and that's one of the things I've Loved about getting older is that you don't necessarily have to be friends with your peer group you know at school it has to be not just your year group but it has to be your type of year group you're the people who are into the same music or at the same clothes you know it's very very specific um now I'm as interested I made a wonderful friend during lockdown who's 93 and I have tea with her every Friday and she's the biggest gift to me up to my life oh lovely she's an absolute gift and and you know she's on her own a lot of the time but she's also friends with her neighbors that she's got so many people who she's not married she never married she's no children she should be lonely she isn't because she just everybody likes her because she's just a lovely person and I've learned so much from her about kind of your family doesn't have to be your family your family is whoever you decide is your family your family can be you know a friendship group um so keep you know keep nurturing keep looking keep you can make I've made I made friends with her two three years ago I don't suppose we'd be friends for you know that many years she's 93 almost 94. um and when I say to her how are you she goes oh I'm a bit wobbly today but it's better than the alternative so she's just she's an absolute joy I love that example and I think intergenerational connections are so beautiful and and valuable um in a moment we're going to come to the questions in the Q a so if you have a question for Siobhan please do use a q a function and if you see someone else's question that you'd like to have answered please do vote on it and we'll try and focus on the questions that get in the most votes are the most sort of popular but before we go there Siobhan um I feel that we've not really talked about self-care and I don't sometimes dislike that term because it feels like it's about pampering or about you know getting hot baths and you know eating eating ice cream and and actually for me it feels like you know one of the misconceptions that self-care is somehow selfish in fact actually all the things you want to be in life like are good parent and a good partner and a good um you know um son or daughter or Community member or colleague comes from being able to nurture ourselves first that kind of oxygen mask principle that I know you've talked about before so so how can we sort of just be a bit kinder to ourselves without being narcissistic but actually just sort of make some of that space he talks about for all those years being almost in the service of your children in service of something else and it's tough isn't it at this age I mean we're known as the sandwich generation which I think should be renamed the sausage roll ER sometimes the way I feel but anyway um the sandwich generation which I think is an awful word um but it is because you know we've got so much pressure from above and below to look after both Generations um I think that word really needs to really needs to go as does midlife and middle age um you know midlife I I was talking to a lady the other day we were talking about this and her dad died at 40. um when he was when he was 40 when she was you know very young and she said his midlife was 20. so you know it that that that word is meaningless um so we we came up we've invented this new word called Center sorry I've gone off topic haven't I but we invented this term called Center stages which I think is just a lovely word because we are the center of the stage this is our time when you know it's not just about service it's about ourselves and all the people around us that have that have you know would responsibility I now see as I'm lucky because that means I've got love I've got people to love and people who love me and and I used to feel the weight of responsibility now I see it as and that's that's probably easy to say because I don't have you know an elderly parent in the other room that I have to look after 24 hours a day so so take that with with the way it's meant um for anybody who's really struggling with um dependence at the moment but for me it was when you talk about self-care it was ex you used you used the word acceptance a lot and I think it's probably the most powerful word is trying to get to acceptance but to get to acceptance I had to do quite a bit of working through and and I've found for me there was three things that were always holding me back um and that was really the the sort of fear and it was it could have been it could be fear of the future fear of being poor pain of being alone in fear of not being able to take care of myself you know there's this sort of fear and and I think now having gone through three children personal depression divorce you know some not not the worst things in the world you know there's a lot worse things but having been through all that I've let go of fear life life will take me where it will be have its ups and downs and I will face it um as it comes and also letting go of guilt that was another thing I've carried with me all my life guilt that I wasn't giving even something as simple as three children are you giving each one of them enough attention let it go let the guilt go it's absolutely useless so for me self-care is is about letting go of those things that I'm so hard on myself about um and the final the third one for me was was failure fear of failure um so when I when I had personal depression I had to drop out of my job I felt such a failure when I had my mid-life crisis I left my company that I you know started I left my investors and I you know dropped the mic um and I felt such a failure so now I've let go of that I've learned so much from those experiences and they've led me to where I am now and we just have to so again when you said we but you have to love yourself because each one of us is unique each one of us is individual each one of us is beautiful whether inside or out um and that for me is is acceptance and I'm not there all the time um today is a really good day and that's partly because of the conversation we had yesterday which led me to to thinking about these things but yeah for me that's how how I'm getting to where I'm getting to yeah thank you Siobhan and then I I just wanted to share something that's really helped me and then something you said in response to it which really inspired me so I I had this concept that I someone brought to me recently in a meditation practice which is the idea that there will always be the last time that you do something in your life and you don't necessarily or you hardly ever know when that's going to be so there's probably already been the last time that I walk my join to school and there will one day be the last time that I speak to my mum and there will be a last time that I cycle to my office and not knowing what that is and bringing that mindset makes me or helps me approach every day with that sense of life life is precious um this is amazing but then when I said this to you you what you said was but there's always like potentially a first time you do something and actually part of this maybe this this what we might call the second phase of life is about trying new things I mean have you embraced a lot of new things in this period as well I'm not I'm not a great adventurer like you know I have no desire to go traveling and go you know do a lot of people do this kind of the third age backpacking where you know you sort of you kind of say to the kids right there you go you're off my hands now I'm you know we're off um backpacking we never got to do it as kids um but yeah I I for me the idea that this is the last time I might do something I wraps me up in anxiety and and makes me want to like criterias of of nostalgia and sadness where like when I look back at the Children's baby pictures um or or you know and it's like oh it's gone that time I'll never get back again and um so just for me that's a really unhealthful way of looking at things although I suppose it does make you treasure the moment and season day today could be the last day of your life you know what would you do with the last day of your life there's a lovely story I think Saint Francis I think it was Saint Francis of Assisi was sweeping the floor of his little you know mud hut wherever he lived and someone said to him if this was your last day on Earth is your last you know what would you do and he went he'd probably just carry on sweeping the floor and I always thought that was like perfect you know his life he was living every day in that way but I like to think of it as this is the first time so first time I took my son for a pint at 18 his first legal point I'm sure he's many are buying that wasn't legal so at first time where all three of my kids can come and have you know illegal drink with me sorry it's 18 over here it's 21 in America isn't it but you know all those firsts first time for everything I'm not a grandparent yet but I will be and that will be the first so I'd rather look at it like that like there's all these new experiences I love that attitude and I think that sees the day mentality is really powerful let's come to some of these questions then so Fiona has asked uh or she just sort of said by honestly I feel um invisible unattractive useless that I have nothing to look forward to I can feel these changes in my body and I don't like it how can I find some zest for life again when I feel like my life will never be the same again I I feel you I have been you um it didn't happen overnight um I found the HRT helpful I found antidepressants also helpful they were sort of the the medications that helped me to do the things that were necessary to get to the next stage and I think I said something about you never know what's around the corner life you know life has a way of it has a flow an ebony flow you're sort of your cork on the ocean and life will take you places but you do have to I think go and meet us you don't have to run headlong into life especially when you're feeling like that you don't have to you know go straight onto like a dating site and find an exciting new man or you don't have to go backpacking around the world or you don't have to do a bungee jump or something you've always wanted to do that you talked about you're going to have to tell your story about cycling to the moon at some point because you are you are an overachiever of all all over Achievers I think pottering around the block is an achiever you want to cycle to the moon but um I think you do have to make yourself do little things so one of the women I was working with individually she she was the one who just couldn't get off the sofa and I said you know when we talk next week um what's the one thing you've done I said I'll tell you what it is because you she had complimented me that I'd had my nails done and it's silly silly getting my nails done it doesn't nobody notices but I do I look down and I'm like there's one thing in my life today that's perfect and that's my nails and I said to her between now next week I want you to get your nails done I said you don't have to go to a you know salon and pay to have them done but do them yourself get a nice favorite color and give them a little buff and a shine and she was like oh I can't be bothered and I said I want you to bother please and you can give me a task in return and she said to me right I want you to go for a run and I was like oh great okay she's picked up on that so when next week she came she went look and she was so delighted they were bright blue but she'd done it for herself and honestly I promised that was the beginning of a change for her so so I love that story and that isn't actually it's less about the actual thing and it's more about you said to yourself you matter and I'm gonna do a little thing just to kind of like care for you that's the message you're sending yourself isn't it yes and then she said what should I do next week should I know I'm going to sort out that box of admin that's been been weighing on my heart and mind all this time so you know she was off and she met life and actually I'm not saying that you know I I was responsible for that but that was a turning point and within six months I saw her with a whole new zest and attitude for life going places meeting people doing things I mean it's not perfect but she's getting there she took that step towards life and life came and you know met her so she did the five percent and life did 95 um and and if you're feeling you know fat and middle-aged and unattractive yeah it's it sucks we're not 21 anymore and we never will be but we can still be beautiful in our own ways you know get your hair done do your hair um go gray if you want to but feel beautiful with us do your makeup to it sounds again frivolous but you're not doing it for other people you're doing it for yourself someone just noticed in the chat about how social media can make us dislike our opinions and of course the last thing we want to be doing is comparing ourselves to others we just want to kind of just be comparing ourselves to ourselves or in fact not comparing ourselves to anyone and just being um let's move on to a question from Molly um really interesting one what can we do if we hear other people around us talking negatively about aging she said she often encounters people talking about it as if it's a Dreadful thing to be avoided um any suggestions for Molly I I have noticed that the girls in the office um will say things to me like oh yeah my mum says that or yeah my mum likes that um and I'm incandescent I'm like what do you mean you're comparing me to your mum so you know it takes a little bit of getting used to but then I kind of I tend to go into kind of the you know I don't know if in America they know the series absolutely fabulous for Joanna Lumley but I tend to go you know a little bit Ab Fab and kind of set out to shock them um you know just just I don't know just you know talk inappropriately about things that they kind of go she's a mom and she's like that age and she talks like that it's like yeah and I'll you know or I'll I'll I don't know just you know buy where are the clothes that make you feel good where are the things that you used to love when you were 15 where the Doc Martens where the you know okay it's not going to be skinny jeans maybe anymore or the little mini skirt from Topshop or but you know just just it's it's outwards it sounds frivolous but it isn't it's it's about being you and and that's what fashion is supposed to be isn't it projecting yourself to yourself and saying this is who I am wearing the the band t-shirt whatever music you used to love when you're a teenager get a band you know get it get a rock and roll t-shirt and wear that and just remind yourself of who you are deep down inside because you're still you uh I think you've already answered this question beautifully each one but it's the most devoted uh from Natalie so thank you Natalie he's just asked simply what are the ways we can Embrace midlife and find ways to thrive in this stage of our lives and I think you've given loads of examples one that you've just made me think of though is that um you know I have embraced not really caring what other people think in the way that I used to and now what's amazing for me when I have teenage kids is like I'm perfectly happy to like Skip and dance and sing down the street he's like ridiculous and they'll be like Dad that's so embarrassing and I'm like well and actually it's quite liberating to not really be bothered in the way that you know teenagers clearly are about how they're perceived that is a really good one and people talk about wisdom um I think my my is mine again to be um the opposite mine is I'm actually for once um I'm willing to learn you know I think you know when I think about my 29 year old self and my job I thought I knew everything and I just thought everybody else was stupid it was like get out of my way I know better now I realize that they say that don't they actually the older you get the more you realize how much you don't know um so I'm embracing learning listening to like my 934 year old friend and the stories she's got to tell them learning from her learning from people that's my aim for my next sort of next bit is to is to to be aware of what I don't know and learn um what what sorry where were we well no I think that's a perfect answer thank you and I think as as ever you're um I think the themes as well as acceptance that are coming from here here are about Hope and about sort of like looking forward it's not rather than being um sort of worried about what has or hasn't happened in a way and I think that's quite it's all of it's quite it's got the potential to be liberating if we let it I might just want to come to a really interesting question from Vicky though because she's asking to find out a bit more about your new positive outlook on life and and so on but particularly what is it you've learned or realized that's most important to you the ability to be by myself to be okay with myself um and I'm still working on it because I know people fall into like extroverts introverts and the whole thing around that but I've always needed people things um you know I'd even go to sleep I'd wait till the very last minute you know read a book till I fell asleep or more recently you know watch TV or listen to a podcast and that's because I don't or I didn't like to be alone with my own thoughts um and I have spent some time I actually spent um I call it my solo summer the summer just gone um I was you know the kids were busy with festivals and all sorts of things and um you know now single and I went to like gigs on my own I went to book tour book event Launches on my own I went to anything I would have said I'd love to go but I don't have anyone to go with I went on my own and nobody nobody cares you I used to feel so self-conscious on my own but I didn't and nobody cares and sometimes people talk to you sometimes you talk to them sometimes they don't you just enjoy the experience I'd literally go up the front to a gig for a rock band I like and just doing things by myself and then you kind of learn that actually it's okay to listen to yourself and to to listen to those I'm not quite okay today why not oh it's because I'm hungry yeah but it's not it's because why is it and you just ask yourself those little questions and it's just easier to it's just easier to face things somehow when you know that you've got it in in you rather than always having to reach outside for something and I suppose I should caveat that with don't feel alone and feel that you have to do it by yourself because we're all about reaching out and and finding somebody to talk to so so there's a there's a check and balance to that that's a really nice sort of balance isn't it because yes as we said so many of these events do reach out for help from loved ones from professional support if it's needed and we may reach out to get HRT if that can help you with menopause symptoms in this case but also reach in is what you're saying as well which is sort of be willing to kind of like discover that you can help yourself as well as needing help from others I think that's really nice I think my old my I shouldn't call it my old lady should I um her name's her name's Ethel Joan um but she's I know her because her great niece lives in Australia who I used to work with who asked me if I would check up on her and it turned out she lived around the corner from me so it was meant to be and so I call her AJ Auntie Joan and which she loved just got this like funky gangster street name now AJ but I think she's probably been been the you know the biggest gift in my life because she relies on me and that makes me feel special and important and to her I'm just this young slip of a girl you know and she's always like she shows me her clothes catalog and we go through it together and she's she's it's that sort of response that yes it's a responsibility but it's one that has given me back way more and I'm not kind of saying I'm this amazing person who volunteers you know I didn't intend to adopt her as my grandma but like she's been the most just the biggest gift in my life so maybe by looking after somebody else you're looking after yourself yeah I think that's absolutely right um there's lots more um questions uh which I'd love to get to but we're rapidly running out of time so I think we could just try and do this one really briefly because I do want to just touch on it such an important topic Annie's asked for any advice around aging parents and the pressure and stress that that part of life can bring it's so difficult isn't it I'm very lucky that I've got four siblings so we we get to sort of share it out um but I have a lot of friends who are going through it as well um I mean once once you get to the dementia stage it's really really difficult I'm I don't know but but in this country retirement villages are becoming like the old care home system is going to be I hold the thing of the past those awful places that smell of weed that nobody ever wants to go to but you know there comes a point where aging parents it's a difficult conversation and in fact I'm talking to some people about how we can bring that to people to help them to have those difficult conversations there is a point where you are going to damage yourself and you're not helping them you know there is a point where they they actually have to be say put into a care home that sounds awful there is a time when that is right and and those places are improving so much they're becoming like you know funky retirement villages with Swimming Pools and Spa centers and I you know I think that's the future and that's something I'm very interested in but yeah it's it's it's it's not one I can really talk with great Authority on apart from to acknowledge that the you know again it's the it's the guilt and guilt isn't helpful the um the only thing I'd uh thank you for showing that is I mean I've had I've got three really close friends who've lost their father all of which lost their father in the last sort of few months and devastating as though that is um they have talked about the sort of life-affirming aspect about being reminded about what matters and in some cases the special time you can have with loved ones towards the end of their lives and how much it puts everything else into context and actually if you're able to recognize it only enough and have the conversations that matter while people are still around it can be really life enhancing and I had a great joy of my dad's 85 now I had a great joy of going with him and our kids to Ireland and he got a chance to show them where he grew up this this summer and it was you know I don't know how many more hopefully decades but all years that he may have in his life um but just knowing that we've spent that that we we've done some precious things and had some important conversations um is something that I find you know an important part of just that Journey we're all going through I'm sure we're one sorry we're running out of time and we're all so grateful for you in fact there's so much love for you in the chat and people saying how much they found this helpful your honesty and your willingness to share your um your journey and experiences has been really moving and profound and tomorrow we're going to send as you said some some follow-up links but um as well as all the facts that are flying through in the chat now um thank you to everyone who's been part of this and for all your fantastic questions but Siobhan is a sort of final thought you'd like to leave us with on this topic just um if I've I talk a lot as my um wonderful father I used to say Siobhan you've been given two areas in one month use them in that proportion so if I've talked about things that are a bit you know off-key or people have taken the wrong message from them I'm sorry um I only come here not as an expert but as a human being who's been you know through stuff and I'm doing my best like everybody else we're just we're all the same we're all the same and and the love here is beautiful is what you do is just the antithesis of social media um I would support it in any way I can and I've posted something in your um Community Forum um and I'll keep checking in if anybody does want to carry on the conversation um I'll I'll be happy to yeah for anyone who's thank you for anyone who's not part of that the best way to exercise is using the action packing this app we've got a community of about 200 000 people now who are connecting and sharing ideas every day and mutual support So Siobhan's on there and is happy to sort of pick up any feedback from this event so if you'd like to carry on the conversation on the talk about other things relating to happiness and well-being please do join us each other because that's the beauty isn't it people like you who are going through things like you like the age of parents if you can find people going through the same thing that's what makes you feel most supported you're not alone you're never alone thank you Siobhan I feel much more connected to these really important topics you've been a real inspiration and thank you to everyone for being part of this see you again for another one of these very soon and look look forward to doing this again sometimes Siobhan thanks for having me God bless [Music]

Channel: Action for Happiness

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Id: z9gXCr4opUo

Length: 59min 3sec (3543 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 01 2022