Microbiome Talk with Dr. Sabine Hazan

all this is dr mubeen syed from doctorbean.com welcome to one more show so today we have another rock star we have a kind of a person who about whom i used to say and i say now as well that they increase the ambience of medical sciences medical community and for sure dr bean community as well so we have with us dr sabine hazen she is i'm gonna quickly so first of all welcome dr hazen thank you thank you for having me i'm so excited love your show thank you very much so very quick introduction from me and then we'll actually ask dr hayes and to introduce and tell us about herself so this is her site project biome and right up front i have no commercial interest with dr hazen her work her colleagues her commercial interests other than having her here and speak with you cool beans so here is her introduction born in morocco dr hazen has always been dedicated to understanding life after completing her residency dr hazen became the first woman gastroenterology fellow at the university of florida that's a big deal then i'm skipping through this she started her own clinical trial company so clinical trial company keep this in mind we're talking microbiome today actually we will have so much hope and so much groundbreaking work that you would witness that i think it would blow your mind he started her own clinical trial company 16 years ago ventura clinical trials and has been principal investigator and sub-investigator in over i think now 300 clinical trials then she established another company so we are not only meeting a an md we are meeting a businesswoman as well and a successful businesswoman she established a new company project biome in january 2019 to investigate the microbiome so i'm going to stop here and i will ask dr hezen to tell us about yourself so i mean yeah pretty much i i went into medicine to understand life and then life you know i thought medicine was the way to understand where do we go after we pass on where does the body go where do who what's going on and so medicine really didn't fill that void of understanding science understanding research and i was always very big on questioning everything you know why is this happening why does this disease occur you know it wasn't just good enough for me to just put band-aids so um i got challenged at university of florida at university of miami actually and when they said well we don't take any women in gi so i said well i'm gonna be your first one and so that was the first challenge i went into gi more on a challenge but gi was a simple field it was if it's not in the vowels you know then it's probably not gi right but come to find that actually a lot of the diseases start in the gut you think about parkinson's alzheimer's there's a gi component to it so that kind of always fascinated me but you know after doing 20 000 colonoscopies after colonoscopies it wasn't fulfilling so i went into the route of clinical research why clinical research because it actually started with a kid who um the surgeons told him he had ulcerative colitis and the surgeons told him he needed his colon out and i didn't want to remove his colon and i said you know what there's got to be another answer for you let me try to find a clinical trial for you that we can put you on to salvage your colon anyways happy to report this kid is now 17 years later still with his colon and i've put him on various clinical trials so i actually opened the company for him um for my for one kid for one clinical trial and then one clinical trial became another patient with alzheimer's who wanted to enter another clinical trial or psoriasis and different and then that became a little bit more fulfilling because it became research it was all of a sudden it was the cutting edge it was what's new what's going to be coming and so i was doing them you know because i wanted the knowledge so i was doing them like a hurricane almost and in fact dr barody who you you know you know from australia calls me hurricane he's in because i'm on i'm always the girl that's like wait a minute this study is interesting on psoriasis this study is interesting on alzheimer's let me bring them on and then you know 300 clinical trials later i learned a lot and pharmaceutical companies always think like i just take the protocols and do the protocols but actually i study these protocols i study the medications i study the how they they come up with the idea and so i learned a lot um i was known in the world of gi and clinical trials as the queen of c diff c diff is a bacteria you get from you know taking antibiotics and people have diarrhea or they die and so my colleagues would refer me these patients to enter the clinical trials when the clinical trials didn't work i felt sorry for the patients and so i said to the patient i would say to the patients look i'm gonna if it doesn't work the pill i'm gonna do fecal transplant on you and i'll use your wife or your husband's poop fecal transplant is the process of putting stools from a healthy donor into an unhealthy uh donor into a person with c diff and then little by little patients would improve like i was one patient improved another patient and then 300 and then 3 000 and so other things started happening and and i started seeing other things in the microbiome you know patients with arthritis improving a couple cases and i started talking to a lot of friends of mine and at the same time that i was talking to my colleagues and saying have you seen you know arthritis improving with fecal transplant have you seen alzheimer's have you seen chronic urinary tract infections and my colleagues which we became the biome squad you know who did fecal transplant were like we're saving the world one poop at a time you know and so we became this these superheroes of playing with poop and because really it's pretty disgusting when you think about it but we were we're doing good work so we kind of joined up and did the malibu microbiome to all come together and talk about our experiences at the same time i was having pharmaceutical clinical trials on fecal material in capsules and that's when i said wait a minute we're in the poop business and we don't even know what the hell we're doing so i was having clinical trials from korea poop in a capsule clinical trials from china you know from from america so i so then i started asking questions i said well what is in the poop and then all of a sudden all these companies if you remember you biome got created and they were analyzing stools and my patients from malibu who are extremely educated would come to me and say what is this stool sample means and i would say how should i know and i would call my colleagues neil stallman who actually got me into the food business and i would say neil what do you make of these two samples he thought and he would say it's there's nothing that's not validated so i was curious and started sending my own stools of my family to different companies and i couldn't find the same results and that's when i said wait a minute there's an opportunity there but it's not very well done in the research realm so why don't i bring what i know how to do clinical trials and what i know of fecal transplant and bring them together into one company progeny biome and i started doing clinical trials on the microbiome and that's where we're at so so uh you are hurricane hazen so much of the accomplishment so to the cool beans please realize that you have the the woman sitting here she is a an md then as you saw the first ever woman in gastroenterology in miami then she is a businesswoman two successful companies she is an author and then as you would see her work today you would realize that she is actually breaking the ground on a newer field of medicine the microbiome she's leading the way she's in the cutting edge there so that is the guest that we have today and how does it translate to me or it's fine we have a great rock star with us good for her how does it work for us what it works for how it works for us is the following there are so many patients with chronic diseases that are originating from gut microbiome or gut disturbances and they for example lying maybe for example many other diseases and patients are living with them and the physicians and patients do not actually know how do i manage this and here you have a doctor who is researching and telling us how to move forward using the microbiome as the target for therapeutics and for management so this is who we are speaking with today so back to you dr hessen first my request that connect us to dr borah brody because i reached out to him and he did not respond to me i think there were some pr people involved in all that so tell us yeah he's busy so tell us what books you are you have authored written or co-written and then tell me if we can get dr brody with us yes so uh it's a so dr barodi is the pioneer of fecal transplant he's the one that we kind of all followed you know when fecal transplant came about at the beginning and myself included we're like we're gonna play with stools and put them in a person how does that work exactly and he was the one that spearheaded the field uh courageous you know enough and so uh when i met with him neil stolman introduced me at uh the american college of castro and neil said oh dr barodi you know dr hazen she's also accomplished improvement in crohn's disease with fecal transplant so he turned to me and he said wait wait because he would crohn's disease is this big you know uh disease that he's improved and i said yeah and i i basically was telling him you know i found mycobacteria pair of tuberculosis and some of the patients with crohn's and so he started paying attention and he started paying attention to what i was creating with the lab and so we became you know we spoke i think it was like 2018 i inherited all the work of uh dr feingold who wrote the book on anaerobic infections because i had a case of alzheimer's that improved with fecal transplant and when i went to dr feingold i said what am i seeing when a patient is improving after i put stools from his wife in his colon and he said you're seeing the microbiome at work and he gave me a paper and he said once you have your lab you're going to look for these groups of microbes right for alzheimer's that are lost but also gain too many bacteria so with and on his patent and in his work was a lot of times i would see dr barodi dr brody and so dr baruti called me one day it was december 26 uh 2018 and i was on my 25th anniversary with my husband at the end of the world literally and he calls me and he goes i'm so excited to talk to you and because we have a lot of work to do and you know if you know anything about dr barody he once he grabs you he puts you to work he's like look they call you hurricane hazen but i'm a tornado tom nader so i so he said between the two of us we can really advance medicine so we haven't stopped talking since 2018 every single day so we actually wrote this book together and i didn't want to sugarcoat it because i wanted people to understand that the microbiome is your poop in the toilet so that's why we called it that i think at some point we're gonna change it to let's talk microbiome but right now we called it let's talk um so just a quick question then uh is it true that 30 or more of the poop is actually bacteria or microbiome or so the microbiota so in your microbiome in your poop are trillions and trillions of microbes from bacteria majority bacteria small minorities viruses and parasites obviously you don't want to have an overgrowth of parasitic infection in your gut or too many viruses but essentially when you look at the microbiome when you look at your poop what you think is waste is actually trillions of bugs and each one of these bugs is interconnected with another bug to do something in other words you cannot get rid of one group of microbes because it it supports another group of microbes so it's all intertwined and when you start looking at the depth of the microbiome at the species you start seeing how every microbe is instrumental and and so important and diversity that was the first thing that i realized the first thing was diversity of the microbiome is a healthy individual non-diversity is disease so diversity is so important because that's you know on a larger scale when you look at humanity humanity is beautiful because of all the diversity if you have one race well humanity is not going to survive you need all these little you know differences same thing in the microbiome it's the ruminococcus with the vasalo bacterium with the bacteroides with the bifidobacteria with the lactobacillus it's all of it together and they're all living together in a balance that's the beauty and and it's amazing to see that absolutely and before cool beans kill me i know that you were talking about your book and you said i didn't want to sugarcoat it i want to go back to that i had this curiosity so so tell us about your books so it's basically uh disease digestion put very simply and then fecal transplant we want to introduce the public to fecal transplant to the power of the microbiome to what we've seen as doctors that's the beginning of the microbiome because i think you know as we've you know survived covade or not survived covador we've learned all these things from covid we realized that you know the importance of the microbiome and you know i stepped into covid with therapies with different analysis of the microbiome our lab was the first one to find source cove 2 in the stools in america and basically when we found it we also started looking at all the mutations of the virus so while we were looking at the um the source code 2 and the and the virus we also were paid attention to what is the microbiome doing in those people that had source code 2 so in other words while the virus is in the gut what is it doing to the bacteria is it eating the bacteria is it creating a bacteriophage so that's what we were so we started paying attention that was my interest we took on some therapies that became controversial of course which we're not going to talk about because we want this video to stay alive uh because we wanted to see is the virus getting destroyed by those by those therapies is the virus is the microbiome getting destroyed with those therapies right because what what did we learn from c diff so we learned from c div that if you uh take on an antibiotic you're killing all the families of the clostridiums you're killing all the diversity and essentially you're leaving this little bacteria with toxins to start taking over the bowels and secrete toxins which ends up causing diarrhea and killing the patient so we learned that from c diff right so why wouldn't covet be the same why wouldn't coving enter because the gut is out of balance and if you start and that's the importance of being a clinical trial physician on the front line doing you know therapies at the clinical trial level because you get to see what's coming what's going on and and that's the fascinating part for me got it thank you very much and the other book you you were showing me another book as well so this book is a little bit more professional uh less uh so it's called regenesis dr sheldon jordan is the top uh uh neurologist at ucla and usc dr sasha bistretsky is the top psychiatrist at usc uh ucla i'm sorry and so dr jordan and i are you know starting to look at therapies for alzheimer's parkinson's ms he's fixing the brain because he's the brainiac and i fixed the gut so together we're hoping to bring in a different way of looking at alzheimer's and parkinson's and improving that and uh dr sasha bruscretsky and i are working on mental health so we actually are looking at a formula of microbes that exist in anxiety patients and we're trying to understand how to get rid of those so you know research is very it's long but we're trying to do it as fast as possible um you know once you isolate microbes that are the potential culprit for a condition then you know you have to put them into a mouse study or an animal so you have to do an animal model to see if you reproduce so for for example parkinson's we believe we've found something so now we want to create an animal model of parkinson's which is going to be exciting because if we reproduce the animal model of parkinson's with these microbes then we have a potential of finding therapies from there so it starts at this level of first looking at the patients finding the patients you know i have a privilege in the sense that i've done clinical trials for a lot of years and i've accumulated a lot of database of patients you know alzheimer's patients that i would put in my clinical trials parkinson's autism and so you know it's easy for me to kind of funnel to to look at the microbiome on this on these populations and and so tell me this microbiome a new area an area of lot of research you are pioneering you are leading are there any good examples for for example while speaking with you i'm thinking what diseases can the let's say poop transplant can help with what diseases should be looked at through microbiome lens should everything be looked at from that point of view so there are so many questions i have how would you address microbiome any any success stories to a naive of this area so you know to a naive it starts with clostridium difficile right here's a patient that has um ulcers in the colon that is having diarrhea that is not improving and then all of a sudden you take stools from a healthy donor you put it in the colon and the patient's diarrhea stops and the ulcers disappear and the colon is back to normal right so that was the beginning for all of us because no matter how we did it whether it was in a capsule whether it was in a enema whether it was all the way to the cecum we achieved improvement for those patients that was very important the thing that basically you know made me you know those moments where you're oh my god and and i i joke about this because people always want these you know uh placebo control trials in research right and they always say well you know you have to test everything with placebo control trials but what happens when you achieve an improvement or a cure when a patient doesn't remember his daughter's date of birth and you do fecal transplant and all of a sudden he's remember his doc he's remembering his daughter's date of birth six months later something happened right placebo control trial is not necessarily going to show you that right because to me and i i joke with people because i say look a martian comes in your backyard and he's coming out of a ufo in your backyard and you're seeing the ufo and you're seeing the martian you go there's life on mars right because there's a martian in your backyard i don't need a placebo-controlled trial right so when i see a case where a patient doesn't remember his daughter's date of birth and then all of a sudden six months later to me that's like seeing a miracle seeing a martian when i improve a case with tourette's syndrome and all of a sudden the kid is no longer swearing and she's improving that's another miracle those are the cases that are basically that starts the ball rolling to make us think if we stop there and we say it was just coincidental we're never gonna learn we need these cases to basically advance now i'm gonna show you a case um question for you dr z says and dr z is a she's a clinical psychologist i think forensic psychologist and a contributor here as well like you are so she's saying what would you transplant as a placebo okay so yeah so the fda i'm i'm back and forth with the fda i'm doing a clinical i'm doing a a clinical trial we got approved for one kid for fecal transplant for autism okay and now we're trying to push 30 kids and the fda had mentioned the idea well at some point you're going to need to do placebo and i said absolutely not will i do will i put a kid through a colonoscopy which is high risk to give a sugar pill absolutely not we this is the era where we need to see if it's working let's see if it's working first if it's working then we go with it there is no placebo control trial in fecal transplant and we will not go that route and i will find that till the finish because that is unacceptable so now this is and you've seen me i'm kind of a fighter this is patients with alopecia areata okay and you can see they have alopecia areata this is a case of dr colleen kelly at brown university look at what happens after fecal transplant really grew hair not possible yes two cases of alopecia areata when i saw these these cases and it was published in the american college of gastro uh journal when i saw these this case i said there's some power in the microbiome and then the first thing that i said to myself i'm like well you know what i've got a lot of hair i gotta look at my microbiome because guess what there's probably a microbe in me that could be the answer to alopecia areata right okay so i need to do something with poop right now so that i don't get thinning of the hair okay we have suspicion but but the thing is those are the cases imagine if she didn't write or publish that and no nobody can have my somebody said somebody wanted your all my yes not going to sleep at night you're going to be on roll you're going to run fire 20 tornadoes all the time you're going to drive your staff crazy your family crazy trust me you don't want what i have so okay okay fair enough we are warned okay so this is one case you had sent me some pictures as well would you like to i think we should get into that so let's let's go into it all right so the first thing that we discovered in the microbiome is and you see all these labs that are doing you know stool assays and they they compare and they have a normal um range right well what are these colors what are these spectrums every column is an individual it's a fingerprint of an individual's microbes at the specie level and every so every column is an individual every color is a group of microbes so another black the latch nose piercing the lactobacillus the bifidobacteria the bacteroides the ruminococcus so it's all groups of microbes now if you notice the third column and by the way these are 27 healthy volunteers okay healthy patients that don't have any problems now you'll notice the third column has a lot of grit which probably in this case it's a lot of bacteroides now is that an abnormal you know if you look at if you compare this guy to everybody else you would say you would say well this guy's got a lot of bacteroides right but actually that's part of his genetic makeup so we can so when you look at these microbiome analysis that are saying well there's a normal there's no such thing as a normal microbiome first of all they're all widely different compared to individuals okay in other words you and i are from different sides of the world parts of the world we ate different foods we've traveled different places we have a completely different microbiome you and i but yet we're both healthy so how can we compare each other well what you can compare is you can compare families so you can bring to the next slide and you'll notice that within a family see the different and you could put them together actually that's probably a good way to look at them you could see that everybody's different but look at the families the families are very similar right in fact this is my family portrait and i joke because i always call it my family portrait look at the first column is my husband the second column is me the third column is my oldest child and the fourth column is my youngest child okay now on the whole we're pretty much similar but look at how similar me and my husband are and we've been married you know almost 20 well almost 30 years actually look at how our microbiomes are kind of similar and you could see that as people may are married together they start being similar to each other in their mannerism and their discussions and their thoughts you could you could almost say know what your husband's gonna say before you say it right even their facial muscles start becoming strong or weak because of similar expressions as they conduct their life together absolutely so so that was the interesting thing because it was reported before that husband and wife started but when i started seeing it on a genomic platform that we created myself ourselves i started saying wow we are similar but more importantly what's interesting in my family is if you see the first column and the last column they're very very similar they have that pale green you know my little one and my husband and me and my oldest one the two in the middle don't have that pale green right so and my daughter and i my oldest daughter and i are identical to a t to the point that we're butting heads and my husband and my little one the last column and the first one are identical so even at your microbiome you can kind of start seeing the similarities now on the whole we're a pretty neurotypical family right now i want to show you what does autism look like and for all the people that have said oh autism is a you know dietary problem no this is a case of triplets the first column is a mom the second column is triplet number one the second call the third one is triplet number two and the third column is triplet number three now you don't need a microbiology degree or anything to know who's the autistic child do you think who do you think this one no the third one look at the overgrowth of the green bacteria of that growth of that diversity is less the diversity is less so the things at the bottom so you can see the first column is the mom and you see how she has that group of microbes that is present it's present in all three kids but it's a lot more present in the third triplet right so what did that get passed on to the third child did something happen that got the third child to overgrow this microbe but definitely this is something that we're seeing right so the other thing we noticed is if you look at the shannon index which is diversity the two kids that are neurotypical have a normal shannon index 6.6 that's amazing a lot of diversity but look at the third kid 3.5 no diversity now this was the case that basically made me you know asked the question could we transplant this kid number one into kid number three and try to bring back kid number three did something happen either at the utero level or after the child grew um that allowed this kid to have an overgrowth of certain microbes because really in the microbiome world it's all about relative abundance it's about one micro is just taking over the space um and of course this is at the bacterial level so this is dna so we essentially you know if we want to see if that bacteria is reproducing and growing we then do a messenger rna pipeline which then sees if this bacteria is reproducing so this is a lot of work to kind of understand the microbe of the species and not the interesting thing becomes if we start looking at this like we did with c diff in other words i have c diff i found c diff i give vancomycin to kill off all the c diff but then what do i do when i do fecal transplant i re-implant a new microbiome so i'm going to take it back to gardening right because i'm a huge gardener and i always say this it's like when you're gardening you've got all these weeds in your grass right you used to have tomatoes blueberries a diversity of fruits and vegetables and all of a sudden animals come and eat it or or microbes come in or you put pesticides and then all of a sudden your plants are you're killing the plants pretty soon your garden is desolate and then pretty soon weeds start growing in right so what do you do when you're gardening you're removing the weeds you're turning the earth which is what we do when we go into the colon we're cleaning up all the toxins all the weeds everything the biofilm and then you're putting new plants right you're replanting now if you have a tornado that happens the plant the seeds are not going to grow and then you want diversity because you're not going to just put tomato plants so basically that's what fecal transplant is to a gardener to so to me that's what i thought with autism i thought maybe we should pick from within the family so my protocol is familial fecal transplant um as opposed to what we've seen with dr adams which is commercial product if you have a kid that has a diversity and can help the brother you know then i would prefer to use the family the the poop from the family from the from the same sibling however if you don't have that or the other siblings are on the spectrum then you have to start looking into into commercial products and unfortunately that's where yes we will need pharma so you know pharma and medicine can cohabitate together just because we have emails doesn't mean the post office all of a sudden is shut down both of them can work together so there's this competition going on with pharma and doctors where oh you can't let the doctors do fecal transplant because it's going to take away from a pharmaceutical product well guess what both can cohabitate together the doctor can try to do a familial transplant and the the pharmaceutical company can try to bring out a product the problem in my opinion with pharmaceutical products we're far from that because i tend to think of fecal transplant that log in the toilet as a transmission of a car if you look at a transmission of a car it's 880 pieces when you break it down now if you break one little piece the whole transmission is broken you could try to fix the piece but it's not gonna happen so are you gonna take a transmission of a honda and put it in a mercedes no so this is the same principle we need to start thinking about fecal transplant we need to match a little bit better the microbiome and this is why we're not having reproducible data in fecal transplant and we need to push you know the formula to kind of say we need to understand the microbiome better so okay so you saw my i love it i wanted to share something yes so for the cool beans for me this whole area is new as well so i am listening learning and enjoying the exact same way as the audience are and this is how i am when i'm listening to some new mechanisms and some new information on medicine i just get so enamored and i'm like a child when i'm listening to my eyes open up with with fantasy and with uh opportunity so thank you very much let's go there i am so amazed at this talk and you can imagine when i saw this case to me that was like christmas every day in my lab is christmas i'm discovering you know the first time i saw spirochetes in the stools you know we talk about lyme disease right but we really don't find lyme disease we do we find like antibodies in the blood but we don't really see the spirochetes right when i saw spirochetes in the stools of patients with lyme i nearly fell off my chair and i called the doctor and i said oh my god we have live spirochetes here so yes so there is a population that you can have spirochetes that are alive and you have to kill the spirochetes and then there's a population that you've killed the spirochetes but then you've also killed off the microbiome so you're left with the sequela of the complications of the destruction of the microbiome people need to start understanding that everything is action leads to a reaction you take an antibiotic for strep pneumonia you kill strep pneumonia but then you're killing all these other microbes that are protecting you it's no question that people have will tell you stories well i took antibiotics and then i started gaining weight did they remove the microbes that was metabolizing them you know we did an amazing study on mice where we fed them a fanny meal skinny mice and we fed them a fatty meal and we noticed that the fatty meal caused them to have a dysbiosis of the gut an imbalance that paper is on progeny biome so all my papers on the microbiome is on projenabiom.com for whoever is interested this is the beginning let me very quickly show it to the folks so this is project biome why not do this i'm going to take this link and i'm going to paste it here in the chat so anyone who is looking at the chat you can see this uh okay so back here i am just so excited i i actually do not wish you to stop ever and we just keep changing topics from here to lying to chronic diseases to others and we just keep talking about microbiome thank you very much for bringing us see how it's all interconnected all these diseases that we thought were you know neurological dermatology alopecia you know it's all interconnected we got to start with the gut okay at it first so this patient then were you able to manage this patient so i'm not gonna say because we have to publish um but it's coming the data's coming it's gonna be fascinating now the next case is a fascinating case this is a mom that came to me so remember you don't have to do fecal transplant for all cases right this was a mom that came to me and i decided to look at her microbiome and look at her kid with crohn's disease this is untrue this is totally untrue yeah i published this case by the way yes and actually i was on i was on a on a show and the father of this kid announced it to the show um and he basically said well dr hayes and cured my kid with crohn's disease it's been five years the kid doesn't have crohn's disease he's off ramacade he's done beautiful canon index before we did what we did and i'm you know and then look at that 4.9 after and look he's matching the mom so what did we do in this actually is we figured out what he was missing and what he had that was overgrown and we basically tried to suppress what was overgrown and embellish what he was missing and that's what you're seeing here to restore that balance and by the way it's been four years now and the kid is off of his meds off remicade he's perfectly fine and treated the next is beautiful so but that's the beauty of the assay too to show you not only at a clinical picture and that case is by the way published so all these cases i'm showing you are published and these essays are is this technique or this yes so this is this your invention created so we i was very you know tough with my sign i'm very tough for my staff i i want perfection so my my lab director i said i want an assay that if i test my stools today tomorrow the next it's the same stools i want to see the same exact microbiome so our assays are valid verified and reproducible in fact people have tested me and challenged me and they've given me two samples of their stools they're like well we wanted to just see if it was and sure enough i would show them that it's exactly them and it's exactly the microbiome picture that's what you want genetic makeup of the pathogens it's the it's the genetic makeup it's your fingerprint so we not only have a fingerprint but this is your more precise fingerprint so imagine this is the 23 and me of of yes and that's what we're doing so we're doing and so that's why it's so important when you do these clinical trials to know the race of the patient what are they eating you have to take in consideration all these things if you're going to compare parkinson's or if you're going to compare irritable bowel syndrome you have to remove from the equation the diet because when you're comparing microbiome you cannot compare a vegan to a vegetarian to a meat eater completely different microbiome you cannot compare someone that's on haldol for example medications to someone that's on lithium you cannot compare someone that has scar tissue from surgeries to someone that doesn't have scar tissue you cannot compare people that are smoking to people that are non-smoking so and then you cannot compare even the race you cannot compare someone from africa to someone from the amazon jungle to some to an amish farmer in in you know amish country to you know a california girl right all different microbiome so it's so and then it gets even more complex you cannot compare people that live with animals because people that live with animals intermingle with their animals that microbiome is different in a way right so i think so it's so important when you look at the microbiome so i've become you know i call myself a technologist if you want to call it that or a fecologist but it's really a forensic doctor of the microbiome it's looking at every clue and saying okay well this makes sense you know i picked up toxoplasmosis and a kid that had crohn's disease and toxoplasmosis was the cause of his crohn's disease and come to find out the animal that the the cat had toxoplasmosis so you know these are the things that you discover and you you kind of like do you know this forensic medicine so that's what it's all about so this was an issue now i'm going to send you to the next case which is there are lots of possibilities poopology and there are more pathology psychology shakeologists whatever we're gonna call it whatever the next you are creating a new science i am and more importantly the reason i wrote this book is to make people pay attention to their poop because it starts in in your toilet when you see something when you see that pencil-shaped stool or when you see the stools are floating or they have a different color you know start paying attention something's happening because it starts with the gut and it finishes it may finish with a neurological problem and when you ask people that have parkinson's ms alzheimer's they will tell you yeah i started getting constipated i started having digestive issues etc so we have to pay attention to that autistic children you know have a lot of digestive problems so which brings up to the question is autism a secondary to crohn's disease is it an extra intestinal manifestation of crohn's for example do these kids have the similar picture to crohn's disease right so all that is important because we tend to put different diseases but we have to start paying attention and say we need to look at the colon and is there you know there's a lot of amazing work by a gastroenterous pediatric gastroenterologist that showed that if you give treatment for crohn's disease and some kids with autism they actually improve so again we have to start thinking gut first to improve the neurological but it's not only gut obviously because there is also component of some kids may have a neurological primary right so i'll bring you back to the next case so the next case is the beauty of a validated assay so this is a patient the first column you will see a shannon index is 3.8 it's pre-fecal transplant okay he had c dip he had chronic urinary tract infections he had psoriasis and he was suicidal okay we gave him the poop of an english professor from alex carrutz's lab at university of minnesota who i work very closely with and i'm always texting alex because i have this assay that shows implantation in a way and i i'm like amazing poop you gave me because look my patient's matching so you could see the third column look at the patient went from 6.2 to 6.3 and look how he's matching the donor he's no longer what he started with right but on a clinical picture this is the amazing this is like seeing a martian in your backyard the guy is no longer suicidal c diff is gone psoriasis is gone and his chronic uti is gone so what happened yes it's possible yes chronic uti everybody will say because it's all microbiome dysbiosis we have to start thinking microbiome dysbiosis even everything we do we have to start thinking got first or if you're treating the lungs treat the gut we're going to get to the lungs and we're going to got to cover it so you can kind of understand but this is the lecture where basically people i should be going oh my god because look at this guy you know in my mind every single slide i'm like poof my this is wonderful well you know this is i am still in a disbelief that this all can happen well look i mean like you can't recreate this you can't cheat a bunch of microbes and acid this is trillions this is like 15 000 bugs in this uh stool sample alone so this is the guy in february and then the guy in june look at this his microbiome is still stable it's still continuing right this is implantation this is the beauty of the microbiome uh research and fecal transplant now we're going to go to the next slide this is by the way once again this is amazing work and thank you for sharing with us thank you and and to me it was you know there's so much data and i have so much data to write but i'm just so busy conducting the research writing the data i wish there was 20 of me but then i wouldn't be able to work with 20 of me so covet hit we were the lab that found covet in the stools what we discovered is while covid was in the stool there's a group of microbes called bifidobacteria that come from and you'll remember actinobacteria phylum so i like to say because i always joke with people whenever there's you know i i there's an engineer that always on twitter somebody is like putting their two cents on something and it's inevitably someone that doesn't have any knowledge of the microbiome or microbes to begin with so i always say what's a phylum and then and then they don't know of course so what's a phylum a phylum is basically like a continent in a planet and a fl and uh and uh phylum is essentially a group of microbes right and then we go from the phylum class order family genus species all the way to the species right so bifidobacteria at the genus level we noticed and why bifidobacteria bifidobacteria if you look at your probiotics and the billion dollar industry of probiotics is bifidobacteria in the label it says bifidobacteria kefir the label says bifidobacteria activia yogurt all these say bifidobacteria so it was important for me to see if bifidobacteria is so important as a probiotic and we've made such a billion dollar industry what is the bifidobacteria what is the benefit of bacteria in somebody said i'm raising the dead no i'm trying to understand the microbiome of the dead because i think those microbes are still alive after they decompose the body so that's my next study in the future after we've done all this so um if you look at bifidobacteria so my question was if bifida bacteria is a billion dollar industry what is the baseline of the bifida what is the vital bacterial level in a patient with severe coping compared to asymptomatics compared to people that are living with families so remember i was on the front line from day one and i was so excited because you know most people were scared i'm like okay well you know what i trust god nothing's gonna happen to me i'm just gonna face myself with this virus and so i started collecting stools and people thought i was crazy too because i had families that some people had coveted and some people didn't have covet so i collected the stools from all the family members and what i realized is in that paper one daughter the first patient had zero bifidobacteria and the mom had two hundred thousand bifidobacteria or four percent of her microbiome was bifidobacteria so i started asking the question i wonder if bifidobacteria is protective and maybe that's why the mom never got covered right so that was the first thing then i started noticing that the mild to moderate really had a lot of bifida so maybe that's why they were mild to moderate but the severe inevitably had zero bifidobacteria so as opposed to people that you know exposed constantly non-vaccinated and still don't have coping i call those the golden poop by the way i'm i'm always on twitter saying if you've not gotten vaccinated or have not gotten probate call me i need to look at your stools so why bifidobacteria if you look at this the paper that we published in british medical journal of gastro you will notice that in that paper i quote an article of patients with asthma improved by bifidobacteria implant okay so now you're saying well asthma bifido long what does that have anything to do with right yeah yeah well so did i i i said the same question so to me it seems like here we have dr hazen who's just picking up any disease and saying you know what microbiome is going to fix it i said i know everybody's like yesterday people always tell me to be not everything is about the microbiota like well you know to a hammer everything's a nail so of course to me everything's about the microbiome so but if you go back to the next slide you will see the importance of bifidobacteria so this is a very important slide now we know sars cove too and you've certainly discussed it on your podcast because i've watched a thousand lectures sixty thousand illustrations there you go sars cove two has stimulates cytokines right we know that now what people don't realize is those cytokines are all over the body you know people tend to think well it's in the lungs but no actually the lungs circulate to the bowels so the whole system is one whole system so we have to start thinking about cytokines in the lungs cytokines in the blood cytokines in the colon okay now if you've got very little bifidobacteria you will notice that the cytokines are all over because you're not evacuating them right so the cytokines so that patient that cannot breathe and whose oxygen is dropping to 60 percent is because he's having almost like an anaphylactic reaction he's having a cytokine storm this is the most important thing during a cytokine storm to understand is that the whole onus is to focus on increasing the bifidobacteria so how do we increase the bifidobacteria the data is coming out we're going to publish that but there is definitely a way that you increase the bifidobacteria at the time of the cytokine storm right to therefore what are you doing when you have these cytokines in the colon the bifido is increased the patient has diarrhea if you talk to patients who had coveted they will tell you dr hayes and i had diarrhea on day seven i had diarrhea on day five and i always tell them i'm like that's great because you're flushing all your cytokines what are you doing when you're flushing and i've had the privilege of talking to a lot of patients like midnight with oxygens of 63 and essentially i flush their colons and all of a sudden they're breathing their oxygen goes up what are we doing we're moving those cytokines they're circulating through the blood and they're circulating through the colon and out into the toilet right so so question question that's my hypothesis yes how how did those i mean flushing the colon how does the this how do the cytokines get in there and get out or is this producing it so how no so cytokines is secreted by by covalent stimulates cytokine release and then the bacteria is role in a way this is anyway that's my hypothesis on how it's happening because i've seen it so much clinically we're gonna demonstrate it trust me on how it happens but essentially if you think about it you have it in the lung it's all over it circulates you're removing it from the colon it leaves space in the lung to recirculate so you're flushing it down you're dropping it so that's what we're doing so that's the importance of the bifidobacteria implant so bit of bitter bacteria so bifida bacteria essentially if you look at the studies with asthma bifida when you improve bifidobacteria you're improving asthma in those patients because you're improving the gut lung access so where it's all these organs are interconnected we all tend to think that you know the bowels are on their own the brain is on its own wrong you know the everything's connected you know the anytime you inject something anytime you put something on your skin that gets absorbed that goes into your blood vessels that circulates through your organs ends up into your colon everything ends up in your colon you take an antibiotic you put in the nose it ends up in your colon kills your colon i'll tell you even things like you know hydro hydrogen peroxide people were thinking like nose etc that kills your your gut you know everything we're doing bleach you're touching bleach with your hands that's going and getting absorbed so we have to pay attention to the demolition of the gut and it starts with an over sterilized community in my opinion so we can go to the next one so i have actually a question and i think i know the answer as well but when i hear your answer my answer is more of a conjecture yours would be accurate one so here's augie said augie said i eat a ton of quality yogurt long haul no significant changes so give me a chance to explain it first for what i learned from you and that is maybe yogurt is not providing him the type of microbiome that he needs so he may need a poop transplant well i'm not going to go there yet because obviously we don't want a future of just pooping i haven't become a just yet we want to understand what increases the bifidobacteria without having to get because there's a lack of bifidobacteria in the planet in the animals there's a lot if you look we're publishing a study where we basically analyzed yogurts i took 29 products at whole foods and uh believe it or not i found bifidobacteria in three i'm not going to say the names or anything but that data is coming because you know we there's no quality on any of this right so when you go to the grocery store and you're eating a yogurt you're thinking you're eating something no there's no yogurt for rectum please do not put yogurt in your rectum somebody wrote yogurt in your rectum batter no no no no okay so one more question before we go back to the cases yes somebody asked this question again and again how do you do poop transplant is this okay yes so poop transplant first of all i'm gonna clear up is only for c diff so don't call me to do it for alzheimer's parkinson's autism we are trying to get approved for autism for 30 patients it's been three years we're back and forth with the fda you know i have a team of regulatory people now that i'm you know on you know on the phone and and and going back and forth with questions you know people don't really like you know the fda i personally i like the fda they're here for my safety they're there to challenge me i'm okay with the challenge i mean challenge accepted but at the end of the day listen i i had a case of a metastatic mesothelioma patient who needed fecal transplant and i fought for that patient with the fda and they approved it within 24 hours for me to do the case um but fecal transplants only approved for c diff so if you have c dip and you've got other conditions well you know find a gi doctor that will do fecal transplant on you and that may help your other conditions um and definitely seek help because fecal transplant is not something you do at home these are still microbes out there that we're you know playing with it's not something you do on your kitchen counter there's other microbes in your kitchen so as much as it's still poop it is still a sterile procedure of poop in a way to not contaminate the poop so there is a there are a ton of studies we do so first of all when we decide which donor so for example i have a i want to pick the wife um it's poop essentially i'm going to do a whole bunch of blood work on her i'm going to do a whole bunch of stool studies on her because i want to make sure she doesn't have vancomycin resistant e coli i want to make sure there's no other infections that she doesn't have c diff and now with copic we got to make sure that's why it was so important for me to find covate in the stools because every single donors i have to make sure that there's no covet in the stools before i implant because my god that could be a disaster so there have been cases of more of death with fecal transplant and also remember you know something that improves a condition can also cause a condition right so if you improved arthritis and you don't know that your donor has i don't know lupus uh you could get lupus from that something that grows hair can also make you lose hair something that makes you you know no longer suicidal can make you suicidal because we don't know we're the beginning of the microbiome that's why i embarked on this mission to me to really write the dictionary of microbes and diseases because i felt that every disease probably has a formula i could be wrong and i could have wasted a lot of time but i needed to look for me it was look if we're going into the field of pill poop the customer the client the patient needs to know what he's getting is he getting a patient with no hair is he getting a patient that's suicidal you know because you're changing c diff but then you're getting something else you're changing autism and then you're getting something else so the importance of the good donor and the in my opinion there also has to be probably a match donor up to a certain point but that's my belief not every you know biome squad doctor believes that this is the beauty of science this is the beauty of research this is the beauty of medicine there's no right or wrong answers we're all right or we're all wrong and time will tell you know that's why i don't really believe in a science or medicine or research that is basically well you have to do this who says who's you know who who made the person that says you have to do this the the king of the castle to tell me about when they don't even know what the hell is going on in the microbiome right so i don't want a science that's pushing a pharmaceutical product a product even me i'm very careful with my analysis because i could have done an a a lab and sold millions of assays but really i don't know what i'm seeing yet i'm seeing something but i think it's important to keep writing the data to keep pushing the science to keep being ethical right this and to make sure we're safe we're doing safety above all and so to me i'm so careful about what i'm doing because i worry about what if i kill the patient what if i you know in a patient that has als who's dying and this is his last resort if he in my opinion if he wants to have fecal transplant that's a no-brainer because the guy is dying decompensating we should be allowed as physicians to approve these cases and the fda needs to be a little bit more lacks on those cases because it becomes you know especially the terminal cancer in my opinion terminal cancer should have the right to do whatever they want you know you have a couple years on this planet if you want to do something that you feel like you know the chemo hasn't helped you nothing else has helped you it's your prerogative in my opinion so i like it so the the moral of the story is folks who are listening don't start asking the doctors or trying the fecal transplants you could actually pick up something even more dangerous than what is already there so there need to be an intermediate process to figure out in math just like blood matching is done yes proper matching and even then you're saying it is an evolving science even you do not have all the answers here so evolving and it's so expensive to do these studies you know every time we analyze a stool sample it's you know thousands of dollars every time we you know consider fecal transplants thousands of dollars in blood work and stools on the donors so all that is the beginning and unfortunately you know we're at the beginning of science on that and needs to be uh interesting now back to bifidobacteria why bifidobacteria so important and what did we notice during covet and i knew this because i had done already a bunch of a thousand samples of stool samples before kovid and what i noticed with bifidobacteria is if you look at mothers and children and i'm gonna leak this picture before it's published but i think it's important enough and i'm sure your your fans will appreciate this this is the microbiome of mothers and their babies now why are babies protected from covid and why are babies not so symptomatic from covet i believe it's because of their bifidobacteria the first column is the baby the second column is the mom you see how much higher the bifidobacteria is in the babies compared to the moms so babies all have a ton of bifida bacteria which i believe protects them from covid now the next slide is what i like to call and i'm going to finish with this slide is the process of aging we are born as babies with a lot of bifidobacteria and we die with zero cancer patients have zero bifidobacteria patient old people have zero benefit of bacteria this is why they're at high risk of catching covet in my opinion if you go on the tension of the bifidobacteria the aging process is loss of bifidobacteria so it's so important to replenish the bifidobacteria to avoid the destruction of the bifidobacteria to understand that when you take a medication it's killing a virus it's killing your bifidobacteria but it's the bifidobacteria growing down the road so i think what's going to be in the future is really more studies and i encourage pharmaceutical companies to test the microbiome of their product to make sure that they're not damaging or killing their microbiome even more so that's one because you know as much as some drugs are helpful they are also causing problems and we need to create the balance right so in other words if i'm destroying the bifido well maybe as i'm giving that penicillin for strepto for strep pneumonia then maybe i should boost the bifidobacteria at the same time so that we don't get ourselves or problems of c diff etc so i think you know that's the future i'd like to see i call it the refloralyzation process because it's really rebringing the flora back and you know in in the book at the last chapter i talk about the process of dying and i think people need to understand because people think you know death is death may not be the end you know microbes take over the body and put you back into the earth are those microbes still alive are they still going in under the earth to refuel to re-come back what happens i mean that's the that's the hope in my opinion that's the that's the holy grail we need to get into and stop the the fights and the hate and the division let's all come together to understand the microbiome because this is hope this is hope for mental illness this is hope for suicidal patients this is all for drug addiction this is hope for alopecia areata this is hope for parkinson's autism alzheimer's and i'm not saying through fecal transplant but at least understanding the microbiome because once we understand we can get into the next level here we are reaching the moon and here we are you know hoping to get to mars but we haven't even looked at our insides our guts you know and to me the microbiome gives a you know the microbiome is hope because the microbiome doesn't care if you're male or female if you're african-american or american or japanese or chinese everybody's got the same microbes they're all living together in balance how amazing that a healthy individual has a good microbiome imbalance and with nothing missing and an unhealthy has an imbalance in the microbiome maybe if we've got too much imbalances that's creating an imbalance in the planet so we have to look at it that way and maybe we need to start thinking of you know replenishing the good microbes in the planet uh and by the way i'll leave you with one thing do you know what decomposes plastic so i know that there have been researches people saying hey the plastic is now can be decomposed tell me more i do not know bifidobacteria decomposes plastic so tomorrow the weekend i'm going to go on an excursion to go find some bacterium you may want to take some plastic and put some bifidobacteria but that's basically yes so i'll have to find some plastic plastic i can find then i have to request people to poop on it so and then i can see which people have a lot of bit of bacteria in there so i would wait for you i can send you some of my donors we can do that experiment together but there's a lot of data there's a lot of data and research could you imagine that care package care package for doctor no i don't want to imagine that i i won't send it i won't send it but people by the way people you know my gold don't my gold poop they're like how do you want my poop i i go in a little container um we just need a fingernail of poop to analyze it that's it okay okay uh so does this happen that when you go on a talk soon after that you start receiving some samples um i mean people call me all the time to analyze their stools yes i mean we get stool samples all the time you know and and also you know there's all those interesting cases to me you know why is like the triplet the cases of the triplets i mean it was fascinating because of the fact that you know what is happening there um we have a bunch of family members um that we see um you know the microbiome is different in siblings and that could be the reason for their autism or parkinson's etc so we're at the beginning got it so uh there was a common thread in the questions one this was fascinating for all of us the second common question was is there any any suggestion to eat some specific type of yogurt or natto or something else or this again is a specialized kind of management and has to be understood in terms of what is in there and then what needs to be in there and so on yogurt yeah so definitely fermented food um that's very good sauerkraut fermented food fermented cheese fermented you know try yogurts i mean you know the thing is i think what's important is obviously there's going to be a time when we're going to start you know having analysis of the bifidobacteria we're not there yet uh but there's definitely we're coming out with the data of how to increase the bifidobacteria nothing that i'm going to put on this uh you're going to be shocked at what's going to increase the benefit of bacteria and it's going to make sense to everybody that's if we are allowed to publish we're living in in very interesting times right now we are living in the in the ancient times nowadays i mean you know i i submitted a paper as a hypothesis and it got rejected and i have to fight to get it approved um you know based and they quoted me some other article and i said wait one article is the standard of care now are we supposed to all follow one article that's the standard of care you know science is about one article and then another article disproving the article right so and and all hypothesis need to be published you shouldn't just like have one oh a biased publication but unfortunately that's what i'm saying we're living in date in in times that are you know very interesting to say the least so i try not to say too much on these things because unfortunately there's nefarious behaviors that get occurred and then change of foods and things like that i'd rather keep it yeah so so no medical advice here no advice here just more information and education and we'll wait for you to tell us more a few questions from the community as well we're all very excited so john653 says dr has his in i had covered 30 days ago not vaccinated and it was very mild however i feel my gut has not been the same since besides taking probio probiotics any other suggestions so i'm not a big pusher of probiotics because the majority of probiotics out there are dead bacteria or they're not even they say there's bifidobacteria and there actually is no bifida bacteria so i'm more of a and and there's a few probiotics that i i like but on the whole um there's there's another paper on projana biome website we actually published a data that shows that if you take low quality probiotics they can be actually more harmful than good because you can kill your bifidobacteria which makes one wonder if you give a kid a probiotic and they have a ton of bitter bacteria first of all why would you give kids bifidobacteria probiotics because they're by by virtue of the fact that their kids they have a lot of benefit of bacteria i can tell you you know kids that i've tested you know have 1.5 million bifidobacteria gosh i wish i had that you know so i wouldn't mess that microbiome because what happens is it's like taking laxatives when you take relax it's like taking pancreatic enzymes when you take pancreatic enzymes your pancreas becomes lazy and it doesn't need to secrete its own pancreatic enzymes so you don't want to create that in your gut you don't want to become used to a pill you want to get back to the foods so i'm very big on regenerative farming um because regenerative farming have a lot of diversity of animals together at diversity of plants so i'm very big on that so find a farm next to you there's a couple farms that i recommend harmony farms hawks uh bill peak farm um poly face farm is another one amazing farms but there's a lot there's a lot of regenerative farms around two make sure your beef if you're gonna be you know a meat eater make sure your beef is not you know fed some antibiotics because then you're basically you know acquiring that beef with the antibiotics and killing your own gut and that explains the kid that gets c diff and eats a hamburger and then next thing you know he gets c diff you know was that hamburger full of antibiotics um i'm not a big pusher of uh and people think i'm crazy but i'm not a big pusher of salads um in my opinion a lot of salads even though they say they're organic have a lot of pesticides on them and they're kind of open air um so i'm not really a fan of salads i'm more a fan of vegetables and fruits that are covered you know the bananas the coconuts the pineapple the fennels that are underground the um the beets the potatoes the sweet potatoes all that so i'm into all that sauerkraut uh cabbage uh fermented food pickles all that is really good because it's you're making your colon a compost farm a compost bin right you're fermenting you're allowing your colon to have that fermentation going which is helping feed all these microbes essentially grow your own greens then yes eat your own greens the only organ i always say the only organic farms are the ones that you grow in your backyard and if you start growing strawberries and tomatoes you'll notice they're not the same as at costco they're not ex you know enormous and they actually have a taste when you can taste the strawberries and they're tiny and you know that you have good food and so we need to go back to the good food we need to go back to the dirt we if you look at studies that of kids that play in the garden in kindergarten they have less ear infections than kids that are in a classroom we need to be less sterile more in the earth more touching the earth more in the ground and we need to make sure we're not killing the earth you know we've killed so much we've weeded so much that that's not good so thank you so much the questions are continuing to be here but here's the deal if we continue with the questions at this time we are at 7 18 the video would become longer and the longer it is the less viewership there is so i think if we can request you to join us once more absolutely we i would curate some questions and we'll do a question answer session as well with the cool beans plus there is a so sorry go ahead no absolutely absolutely and just one last thing and then we close auggie saying your books i think here's the book whoops let me let me increase okay so this is let's talk disease digestion and fecal transplant by dr sabine hessen and all thank you very much everybody dr bharati so dr burundi on this one too yes dr brodie is on this page he's the third author we've got to have dr barodi in that show as well maybe both of you together and we talked about it imagine that he accepted to call this book this because dr brodie is like one of the most famous published author and and he said yeah absolutely we need to call it we need to tell people the way it is let's talk that's a good title so is it okay awesome so with this thank you so much for being here thank you for your time thank you for dazzling us with the with the new knowledge teaching us more and we will wait for your further work and i would request you to join us once again maybe in a couple of weeks perfect very excited thank you so much thank you very much and cool beans thank you very much to you as well please see some of the links in the description as well and i would see you on tuesday monday is off so we'll see each other on tuesday thank you bye bye thank you

Channel: Drbeen Medical Lectures

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Length: 78min 36sec (4716 seconds)

Published: Sat May 28 2022