Michael Moore on Gaza: 'We need to stop the slaughter' | UpFront

during his visit to Israel following the October 7th attacks US President Joe Biden warned the country not to repeat the mistakes the US made in response to the 9/11 attacks but is Israel doing just that and why is the US refusing to call for a ceasefire I'll ask the director of the award-winning film Fahrenheit 911 author and activist Michael Moore in an upfront special Michael Moore thanks so much for joining me on up front thank you thank you for having me of course you of course made a very famous movie called Fahrenheit 911 which criticized the US's response to the Attacks of September 11th 2001 uh you chronicled the panicked rush to allow the government to spy on its own citizens uh the decision to invade Iraq a country that had nothing to do with 911 uh and the ways that the defense industry profited off the war Israel is now calling October 7th their own 911 what do you make of that comparison and do you see uh similarities or Parallels to how the Israelis are responding well it's ironically it's a it's a very apt description in the sense in terms of how the United States responded to 911 and uh and how Israel is responding now and I think President Biden both when he was there and since he's come back to the United States uh has essentially said don't make the mistakes that we made that um we were uh very much in a rush toward Revenge we were very I mean everybody here anybody who remembers that day it was frightening it was a sense of pretty much I I'm guessing how most Israelis have felt for many years something like this would never happen and then it happens and the fact that it took hours 6 hours 8 hours 12 12 hours before help arrived um I think has discombobulated a lot of people in this in the sense of of kind of utter horror and fear human beings do not act well when they come from a place of fear and Terror that's why a lot of times terrorism uh does its job I think I but I want to say that um waking up that morning that Saturday morning on October 7th um it's never a good day on this planet when you wake up and you hear that 1,400 of our Jewish brothers and sisters have been slaughtered it's it's uh none of us I think want to live in that world and so um so I think I understand all the initial responses and I understand the response and the desire for Revenge having gone through that time and seing all the mistakes we made as you said by first invading Afghanistan then invading Iraq um for what that's the interesting question the for what the what was this really about question uh in regards to 911 LED people to say okay this was maybe just a pretext uh you know for invading Iraq would do you worry that the Israeli government May similarly used October 7th as a pretext to take over more of Gaza to expand in the West Bank or maybe go to war with Iran could this moment of horror and and fear turn into an opportunistic moment for something else well I think it already has and and let me just say this and this is what maybe one issue that most people on the right or the left um uh pro-israel Pro Palestinian pro-human life um and and I think I'm guessing just the polls I've seen just to just uh out of Israel um Netanyahu has to go the the the people were not protected uh what was he doing why did had they pulled the Army back why we know one reason they were pulled back into the West Bank was to support the settlers and their violence against the Palestinians I mean there he's going to have to answer for this it's not going to go well for him and um and I think that it's very hard to trust uh things that are coming out of his his administration and I um um the slaughter that we're witnessing now is so I don't know how to put words to it frankly I mean just what what's happened the last few nights but really what happened the last few decades and that I as an American um I'm helping to fund that United States is the bank let me ask you about that funding Michael you that's so important right because on the one hand as you mentioned earlier President Biden says Hey Israel don't make the mistakes we made we went looking for justice and we made mistakes at the same time he's asking for more military aid you know he he said that you know Innocents being killed is just the price of waging a war you can't square that Circle easily what do you do what should the US be doing well we should not be trying to increase the the slaughter we should not be funding the War I I I I think you know most Americans uh have no problem with um making sure that there are no more Israelis killed and providing for the defense but that's really not what's going on right now um how do you justify the the um the slaughter of children children and some of these nights half of the Dead half of the Wounded our children what are we getting back what are we what are we trying to do how what what did the children do and how are we defending Israel by having more dead children and anybody who can't say right now you know especially people who say oh I support Israel and I will you know defend Israel and then support and fund the massacre of innocent civilians and children you have no credibility then when you say that you support Israel well that kind of that kind of hypocrisy that kind of contradiction isn't just with people it's with governments too including our government I mean Human Rights Watch put it perfectly they said the hypocrisy and double standards of western states are flagrant and obvious uh and that of course the Us and other Western governments have to apply the same principles regarding Russian atrocities in Ukraine as they would with quote Israel's brutal disregard for civilian life in Gaza it seems like we pick and choose when we're going to be outraged when we're going to intervene when we're going to have a moral uh critique uh would it be fair to say that the US foreign policy position uh is fundamentally hypocritical it is but I think what's really at the core always of our foreign policy is what's best for us and and and and so Israel and the and and from the very beginning of the of the creation of Israel um the American government and the American Military has always seen this as a good thing for us that we have this base there that we that we have um all the the kind of uh um intelligence apparatus and everything all the things that Israel does basically to make sure that the oil supply is there in the Middle East is not it's not going to be we're not going to be impeded by this and I think too and I I've had you know Israeli friends say to me we we get that what's really behind this either either politically or militarily wise uh uh the United States has been using Israel in that way for many many years another thing that comes to mind though is the role that the media plays and again I think back to your work um you know in 911 the media helped beat the drum for war you know post 911 they beat the drum for war in Iraq they beat the drum for war in Afghanistan they continue to beat those War drums uh similarly today we see the media adopting pro-israel approach proar approach uh not as uniformly as as post 911 uh there are voices urging caution uh there's social media Which is far are more complicated and diverse and sometimes messy but at least we see more dissent than we did 20 years ago has the media learned a lesson have we learned a lesson from before I think so I think because of the the what's still going on back and forth about the hospital uh that was bombed uh was it an Israeli uh rocket was it a Palestinian rocket that'll all come out by the way we will all know the the truth of everything yeah U I'm confident of that but in the meantime uh the New York Times and the others have had to sort of back away uh from we got to make sure we're not you know uh we have to say every time anything that comes out of Gaza now from the Palestinians we have to say oh this has not been independently confirmed and which right we should all know that anyways as consumers of media but uh but I still don't hear anybody on in the media whenever something comes out of netanyahu's mouth whatever uh his government is saying it should also be uh have the caveat attached to it uh we have not been able to independently confirm what Benjamin Netanyahu is saying and and so we're in the fog of all this right now and we don't know a lot of what but we but everything that that he and his government very right-wing government uh has been saying and doing uh must be treated with uh a lot of skepticism absolutely and and it's a right-wing government and so sometimes with right-wing governments you know right-wing media Outlets are very gentle the thing about this case is that it's not just the right-wing media that's uh not being sufficiently critical it's everybody I mean uh look at supposedly Centrist mainstream media Outlets like CNN I mean they're still branding their TV coverage Israel at War which seems to be taking sides it doesn't feel very neutral to me uh a BBC headline about an Israeli attack on jabalia mentioned the massive crater the strike left but they ignored the more than 50 people that the gazan health uh Ministry says were also killed uh mainstream media makes all kinds of dubious decisions about how to frame a conflict and you know very well as a filmmaker that the way you frame a story is how people understand the story um how have people's perceptions uh been influenced by the way the media has framed this well I think very much so but again the majority of Americans don't support the slaughter yeah and they and they want the humanitarian Aid in now not 20 trucks a day or 50 trucks a day 500 trucks a day they that is where the American people are at and I want people around the world who might be listening to this to understand that my fellow Americans actually kind of do get this and when the big Graphics come on the screen Israel at War um you know you just have to stop and think for a second oh yeah yeah the Palestinians they have all those fighter jets they have all those bombers they you know all you know the big Palestinian Navy with all those right when you say the word war war what is defined War you know it it's um there was an attack on October 7th that was reprehensible and um and and so people have a right to defend themselves but that's not what's going on now if you're killing children in my name with my money that's not a war uh to defend yourself that looks like something else that looks like that that there's a a group of people two to two and a half million people of color that are being pushed uh as they say into the sea or into the desert or to to get rid of them in some way certainly is what it looks like and you can't wake up every morning and see the bodies of these dead children being pulled uh from the rubble yeah and I think uh a lot of what uh Netanyahu is doing is was very similar to what Bush was doing he messed up Bush paid no attention uh they knew an attack was going to happen uh they didn't prepare for it and and now uh then Bush tried to save himself by let's go to war let's you you know let defend America and uh and yet we're not any safer now as Americans uh we were back then and yes there hasn't been another quote 911 here in the US but uh none of us are safe if our response is more killing and More Death well looking you know look look I'm looking at Biden's request from Congress for more money uh it seems like more killing and More Death is inevitable Biden's asked Congress for $4 billion for Israel's defense uh us already provides Israel more than $3 billion a year uh he's also asked for more money for Ukraine on top of the tens of billions of dollars that's already being spent in the fight against Russia now what's interesting to me is when Biden made the case for this spending uh he did more than just make a moral argument he did more than just make a political argument he made an economic argument on on October 19th he talked about the number of US states uh that those weapons would be made in as if to say this isn't just good for defense this is a jobs program what do you think of the argument that making more weapons is also good for the average working American we don't fall for that anymore the majority of people don't fall for that and I gotta tell you Biden you know um the things that he said and in the sort of position he's taken I know I'm pretty sure what he's doing privately behind the scenes with Netanyahu and I and I know they tried to slow things down a bit to try to get get humanitarian Aid in to try and get hostages released and and I would say I just want to say to people uh in goip anybody who's holding hostages release them release them now it's it it uh not just in terms of the the Goodwill uh that will come from that but do it because it's just right it's the right thing to do and know again as the Israeli press has informed us when they started release the first four hostages a week or so ago and they would I think I heard one uh spokesperson for the IDF say this is all just PR them releasing hostages wow you know what's that thing we learned when we were kids that when you accuse me of something it's quite a sign it may be what you're doing to uh and and it's it's it's release the hostages pull the rug out from underneath the the Netanyahu government that's trying to justify the massacre of children I would I would just just strongly encourage that and and to and to say both sides have to have a ceasefire The Killing has to stop there was a moment last week that I got to be honest with you still is sitting in my craw uh also uh last week the White House Press Secretary was asked if President Biden thinks anti-israel protesters are extremists rather than answer the question she called the protesters anti-semitic and compare and compared them to neo-nazis who marched in Charlottesville back in 2017 uh there's an obvious divide on the left between suppor of supporters of Israel and supporters of Palestinians uh but this is a democratic White House calling critics of Israeli policy who on most other issues would probably be allies uh anti-semites what what do you say to people like the press secretary who make those kinds of claims my podcast team my producers went down to um Grand Central Station in New York City on Friday night at rush hour uh because we we'd gotten we'd heard rumors that people was going to be like a flash mob or people were going to show up there during rush hour to kind of shut Grand Central down and when we got there what it was was it was an organization called Jewish voice for peace and packed inside of Grand Central were well over a thousand mostly New York Jews sitting down and expecting to be arrested in an act of Civil Disobedience wearing t-shirts saying uh ceasefire now not in my name yeah people knew people had family members who had been killed on October 7th and wanted to make it clear that that their deceased loved one would not want children being killed because they were killed yeah it was it was um and so the call I know I heard I saw that in so I said so basically you're calling these thousands of Jews in New York City anti-semites I mean really you're really working the pr machine hard when you're when you're calling fellow uh Jews uh uh awful terms like that um so it's you know it's just not it's not going to work and I think this is very frustrating for Israel the Israeli government um that you know we've had a couple of generations of young people not just in the US but in Israel and in Palestine and around the world where they kind of get what's going on now and and so you're just not going to be able to make stuff up and and I'm very disappointed in in uh President Biden for using this language and but you know I got to say in the back of my had and I have nothing to back this up on I just think that publicly Biden has taken this position that you know we're a th% behind Israel and we're going to send as many weapons as possible and this and that whatever but I think behind the scenes and in his phone calls with Netanyahu and just reading some of the analysis of all this from there have certainly been uh some leaks there have been some uh policy experts who have waited on this and said absolutely that it's not nearly as un form uh a position in the United States and Israel as it looks publicly but there's something and we know but and publicly Biden doesn't like Netanyahu he's made thatu was in New York just a uh what I don't know what six seven weeks ago for the UN the annual un meetings you know and and nety was upset that he did not get an invitation like zalinsky and others did when they were in the US hey come on down to DC come to the White House all that Biden didn't want anything that they had a pruny little two chairs there at the UN and they sat side by side for a minute he and Netanyahu and then that was it it was not welcome at the White House you know I was a supporter of Bernie Sanders and uh but I voted for Biden and I have been once once in one time many times over very kind of surprised and happy with the things that Biden has done since he's been president to help the people to help poor to to stand with unions I've never seen a president go to a union March or demonstration to support the Union against the auto makers so I think that that there's will'll know more in the months or years to come yeah I mean it's interesting you speak to that because it makes me think about the future or the potential future of the left before you go I just want to ask you this um you were an avatar of progressive politics long before people knew who a Bernie Sanders was or who uh an Alexandria Ocasio Cortez was uh now there are podcasts about the end of neoliberalism and more people are joining uh DSA Democratic socialists of America than ever before uh unions are experiencing their highest levels of public support in decades to your point uh Bernie almost got the Democratic nomination for president as a self-identified socialist I mean there is a vocal contingent in Congress right now that identifies as Progressive we are in a different moment um are you are you satisfied with the gains of made by the left in this country yes and no I mean the gains are not far enough I mean we saw during the pandemic because of all of the federal support and help for people poverty amongst children was cut in half and I'm not the only one who thought at the time why don't we just keep this going look what we've done just by providing help to those who need it and you know and then of course you know because he's a more moderate Biden has had this you know he hasn't kept a lot of that a going but I think I think that young people get it they're the ones behind the new union movement in this uh country you know you've got what over 300 400 Starbucks have been organized have voted in the union and of course they're fighting that and as they always do but this is all young people doing this and and it is young people um who are standing up uh for the Palestinian people but also will stand up for you know they're focusing a lot on the few the few kind of crazy people uh that are bigots you know a thing like this Israel you know what they've been doing playing into the hands of bigots uh and that's kind of white supremacist support but that is not this country now and and the the right-wing will not uh run the show here again I really believe in that I don't believe Trump's going to get elected back into the white house uh there are so many millions of Americans who have not liked the way that we've gone and and in closing I just want to say thank you for all the people who stand for peace in Israel especially thank you and and to all here in this country um I I'm weirdly optimistic maybe I shouldn't be but I I just don't think Netanyahu and his G are going to get away with this and I think that um the slaughter will end and maybe not soon enough Michael thank you so much for joining us we appreciate you thank you for letting me speak and um uh it's uh I think this is the first television interview I've been uh asked to do uh since this started on October 7th so my my sincere uh grief and condolences uh to everyone who's died first on October 7th just nobody who's Jewish should have to spend another day on this Earth worried about their survival and then immediately we need to stop the slaughter in Gaza um uh the re the hostages have to be returned and sensible people who care about peace who care about each other have to sit down at a table and and work the out and you know we say a prayer for all all absolutely so that not another person has to die indeed everybody Michael Moore thanks again for joining us everybody that's our show upfront we'll be back next [Music] week

Channel: Al Jazeera English

Views: 1,837,434

Keywords: Al Jazeera, Al Jazeera English, Biden, Gaza, Israel, Joe Biden, Michael Moore, Palestine, Upfront, al Jazeera, al jazeera, al jazeera English, al jazeera live, al jazeera video, aljazeera English, aljazeera latest, aljazeera live, aljazeera live news, conflict, israel palestine conflict, latest news, news headlines, palestine israel conflict, upfront al jazeera

Id: Ud-3s0thf-c

Length: 25min 0sec (1500 seconds)

Published: Sat Nov 04 2023