Michael Landsberg: Happy on the Outside

and joining us now Michael Landsberg host of TSN's off the record it's great to have you here great to be here first time on the show first time on this program that's right that's why I came out of the closet with my mental illness just so I could get on the show that's not why but we're grateful that you came in to talk about this and I'll tell you why I wanted to have you in how long have I known you since we met in the I believe at the doors of varsity stadium where you and I had had been put together to broadcast a varsity blues football game when I was in third year U of T just about to fail out and you were in second year you have T just about to go on to do your master's degree and that was 1979 I think I had no idea what you were what it was a long time ago and the reason I raise this is because the point is I've known you a long time and I never knew that you were fighting with mental health issues practically your whole life and I want to start with that how were you able to disguise from everybody that you knew including those of us who spend a lot of time with you back then what you were going through well don't make the assumption that because I disguised it from you I disguise it from everyone there may have been people that were closer to me that I laid in Jaws maybe a few including my wife and then not my parents your parents did not know my parents did not know now when you say that I had suffered throughout my entire life or almost my entire life the truth is that I never knew that I was quote/unquote mentally ill it's an interesting awakening when that happens when you realize I'm crazy well I suffered from anxiety as a kid right and I had these ridiculous fears things that I would never tell anyone because that's something I'd actually be embarrassed about I mean there were ludicrous and absurd and I thought that everybody experienced those because when you're a kid you believe whatever is in your head is the norm right and that's one of the reasons why kids need to know that maybe they're not the norm and maybe there is help there and I probably could have used it at that point but you know I sit me for instance what would you I was afraid of throwing up desperately afraid of puking for no particular reason well in my head to her reasons and I just I had this enormous fear of it to the point where I was a counselor at a day camp but I wouldn't go in the bus because I rightfully had sized up the fact that kids get bused ikonn the bus so III was consumed by that right and I would live in fear of am I sick will I get if you if you get sick will I catch it to tell anybody uh it was caught uh yeah I don't remember if I told to anyone it was kind of everybody knew that but I don't think everyone knew the extent to which I feared it interestingly my son Cory has exactly the same fear as that exactly and he's how old now he's 25 who suffers that anxiety exactly the same one and and subsequent to talking about this I think I've met maybe six people seven people who have exactly the same fear they actually have a there's it's something something drea right like there is actually a real fear of it so if you have this thing does that mean that you suffer from a particular mental illness I suffered from what you would call general anxiety disorder but I didn't call it general anxiety disorder I call it in my own head sort of being a loser kid who's got all of these ridiculous fears and I started to realize I think my late teens and maybe not everybody fears this the same way and maybe not everyone has the same level of anxiety so so that was me as a kid and and I didn't come to my issue with depression until later in life and I I think that I know you've been exploring this issue but I think that there are there's pretty well agreement in the medical community that anxiety and depression really stem from the same area it's not like you can do a blood test and say Landsberg is 80% depressed than 20% anxious you know it's just it's it's some kind of imbalance in your brain that manifests itself sometimes as anxiety and sometimes as depression when did the light go on when you realized my goodness I am clinically 14 years ago the start of off-the-record 1997 the fall of 97 I started to realize that that that who I was was no longer who I was and there's there's a slow recognition like I knew that I was really in pain and when I say in pain it's difficult to understand the kind of pain I'm talking about unless you have experienced it right and that's not to be exclusionary and say you know I felt stuff that you haven't felt but it's pain is the right words in the physical yeah it can be physical but it's just it's this it's this this pain that goes to your core and that really is very difficult to verbalize and that's why it's healthy for guys like me to do a show like this because you know you go to on the internet and you google symptoms of depression and you'll see weight loss or way fatigue during the day inability to sleep loss of appetite III had some weight loss for sure but you told when you're on a diet that's why you lost all that weight it's good that you can make fun of my mental illness I'm sizing you I'm kidding of course and I'm making fun of my own I remember you were a you were a chubby ER I was a fat kid and then you okay I was being nice we're being that nice I mean if you want to be really nice you in dementia would so so but but to finish what I was saying you Google symptoms of depression and you see this list but but depression isn't about a symptom depression is about a feeling and unless you felt it then nobody at home is gonna go well that's me like like this is what I called it the that's me awareness where you're watching the show like this and you go wow that's meets me I understand what he's talking about so in the proverbial you feel like you're living under a black cloud yeah for sure you know black cloud or you're in this big dark hold and you know when you wake up in the morning that no matter what happens over the course of the day you will go to bed sad but nothing will happen over the course of the day that will change that and you believe that you will be that way the rest of your life right even though you know reasonable intelligence you know that there's antidepressants sometime with the first time that you experience it you know that potentially there's help but but part of the problem is this vicious cycle is that you feel these symptoms of depression you feel this sadness and your ability to motivate yourself a to get help and B to realize that there is light at the end of the tunnel is taken away from you because your depression so it's like one feeds the other feeds the other and back and forth you go and before you know it you're living in a place that you didn't know existed before and you don't know how to get out of it how did you hide this from your parents well I mean at that point I I was no longer living in my parents house did your dad do for a living my dad was an orthodontist so he was in the medical field right but you see what do you do for a living you you are I mean it's it I'll answer the question you obviously you host a show but you're a professional actor as well right you you you will act in a certain way hosting the show that you may not feel right not too much I think one of the reasons this job works for me is because I'm kind of this way here and I'm this way when the camera but I mean you you can be talking to a guest and you may not find the guest that interesting but act interested you may not few may be worried about one of your children on a given day I guess so so you you have you have a Steve Paikin that you have to present and whether you don't feel like that one you have to lift yourself so you know that yeah so I I became really good at being a professional deceiver now at this point are you on any medication at all I'm not on any medication so 1997 to 1998 and eventually I realize that you know I mean I'm in bad shape that I have no quality of life that did the things that brought me joy were no longer bringing me joy your wife Karen knew and my wife Karen knew what did she tell you to do she told me to get help and did you I eventually got help yeah I mean there there's you have to take a step in your life in your own realization to go to see a psychiatrist and it's it you know to me I I say it all the time I see a psychiatrist and I and there's something there's something very freeing about that right because when you keep it inside and this is really important to someone who may be watching who's thinking like that could be me when you keep it inside you send yourself this signal that somehow this is your fault because you would never hesitate to see you know I got a terrible pain in my side you never go on not gonna I'm not gonna go to a doctor it could be appendix I don't want anyone to know that right you would never hesitate to tell me last month you were off work because of pneumonia right you wouldn't be embarrassed right so when you keep it inside when you when you don't tell people that you see a psychiatrist or any medication or you suffer from depression then you've set yourself a signal that this is your fault and that is a bad place to be I wonder if part of this is because you inhabit a world filled with tough macho jocks and to acknowledge any kind of weakness regardless of what it might be regardless of how legitimate is unacceptable in that world unacceptable I think it's unacceptable in every world especially for men even especially in the jock work I mean the stats are 80% of men that suffer from depression never get help 60% of women never get help so I mean there are people and I've spoken to people in our generation will say oh you know my dad I know he was depressed for his whole life but he never got help because you didn't do that right and especially if you are an adult in the 50s and the 60s you you you didn't have the license to say you know I'm hurting deep down because that was an admission of weakness and at a certain point especially for the father of the family you weren't allowed to be weak but you know I never bought into that I always thought you know mention it all I can okay god bless me forget the sympathy right huh poor me I mean it's interesting that we all use our illnesses and our weaknesses and the things that are heaped upon us sometimes to get sympathy right but people don't do that with mental illness but we were watching a TV show once you know and I this was recently and I said something my wife was was watching with me and I said wow okay that guy's okay it's crazy and I kind of went over course because well it's not very nice I go hello I can say it I'm a mental case too right but you're not I mean well but what the see that's what's interesting is is is I am a functional happy blessed person who happens to suffer from this chemical imbalance that hits me unless it's treated it will keep coming back and keep coming back right so you went for the treatment presumably the doctor said you we're gonna try to work out some medical response to this yes and you started the test different right different doses and levels of Medicine neck I left my doctor's office with the prescription I went downstairs into the pharmacy I filled the prescription bought a bottle of water and took the pill right there when you acknowledge the fact that you're sick and that you're hurting and then someone says to you you know there may be help here in this prescription or with this drug you have to be an idiot not to go give it to me right you took it so I took it and I was miserable I I get what what you would call it paradoxical response so I start on the drug and I'm eight out of ten depressed and for four days I'm 10 out of 10 depressed it gets worse but then you know it gets better and at ten days see the whole the whole group of drugs prozac or zoloft or effects or slightly different group they all work over the course of a couple of weeks right which is which is incredibly incredibly horrible when you think that people take their own lives over that course of that period of time right it's not the drug that you can go to and say well it now works and I was I was miserable and then one one day my wife and I went to a restaurant and I excused myself I said I I have to go to the washroom right and from the time I walked to the front to the time I walked to the back I went oh my god I think I feel better it was it was it was the greatest awakening it was almost worth the depression before to feel the relief right you know it's like you go to the dentist and all you can think about is feeling better and when you do you go wow this is unbelievable you know my mouth doesn't hurt anymore well for me it was my soul doesn't hurt anymore you literally from the time you got up from the table to before you made it to the bathroom right you felt the cloud lift I felt the cloud lift well played huh did you know how to react when that yeah when peed anyway oh I was looking for something a little more profound than that well I mean there was a purpose for me going on washroom but you know I see here's the cycle that that guys like me always go through and there will be people watching who are nodding their head going yeah absolutely so you make the commitment to go on the drug and you can't wait for the drug to work and when the drug works you celebrate your return to reasonable mental health this see see the thing about depression is that it involves everything it's all-encompassing you can't say well you know this little bit of my life is good but everything else is bad but I still have this everything is bad the things that that I love the most which would certainly be my family all of a sudden I love them just as much but they didn't bring me the joy that I got before and you pretend I mean you can't go to your kid you know hey you know you showing me your artwork you know I'm you know to be honest with you I'm really in a bad place right now and it kind of sucks so you pretend like yeah oh that's great and you you have to act a certain way but so you go through the cycle when you feel better you feel so good when did the restaurant event happen how long ago was that that was 14 years ago right so that was the first time I went on medication 13 years ago and you don't not the dose right now do you plan anymore so this is part of the cycle so so you go on it you feel better you you celebrate this and you go you know what I don't care about the side-effects doesn't matter to me I I have been given back this gift of the ability to feel happiness which which without it nothing is good and with it most things are good most simple things are good so then you celebrate it but then you know so I'm happy and I don't care about the side effects right the side effects there's depending on who you are but I mean these are having absolutely these are heavy-duty drugs these are heavy I for instance just before I came here I fell asleep on the couch so I get I get crushingly tired sometimes during the day or I shouldn't say sometimes so I mean nobody wants to be on drugs you know and they say medication is over prescribed I mean maybe it is but when you need it you need it so here's my joy and here's how I care don't care about the side-effects and then gradually you go wow you know was I really that sick did I really feel that bad and man I hate falling asleep in the afternoon and I hate all these other things and before you know it you go wow I can think about is the fact that these side effects are affecting me and I couldn't be in that sick so you go off the drug and did you I I did for how long I think probably a couple of years I mean now we're getting to the point where I don't really remember which time or which as you do when you're I did find it first and eventually I relapsed and eventually I went crawling on my not my hands and knees but the equivalent of what would be the metaphoric hands and knees to the doctor and said you know like give me the drugs alright you know it's it's not like you're an addict because these drugs are not addictive but you you were addicted to the feeling of mental health right so it's like give me the drug right the prescription and I went downstairs filled it again and felt better but that's that cycle is enormous ly common and it takes because a lot of people get depressed once in their life and never get depressed again so they go off the medication and they're fine that wasn't me so you will probably be on meds for the rest of your life thanks doc yeah is that right absolutely and you're fine with that ah you know what I'm not fine with depression you know what I'm not fine with is is that feeling in the morning where you go the most profound feeling that I have when I'm depressed here it is I'm sitting here with you on your show and all I can think about is I can't wait to get out of here I can't wait to get out of here and then I get out of here and I go home and I go wow I can't wait to get out of here and you keep you keep being chased by this shadow that's hanging over your shoulder called depression to wear to another place because somehow being around people is so painful and eventually you end up in bed and that's only place that you it's the only place where you have no other place to go to from well maybe there's one place which is part of the tragedy of the illness right but you know for me that's the most profound feeling get away from wherever you are in our last minute then last minute yeah time flies when you're having fun yeah I mean I'm glad my depressions brought you I can say that cuz we're buddies right but in our last minute for them for the guy who's watching right now and who after hearing your story says holy cow that's me what's the advice the advice is and I'll ignore you and talk to the guy that acknowledges that because I talked about this on off-the-record before and the responses I got were you know at least maybe two dozen responses all for a man all saying that they experienced this awakening so I'm talking to you if what I'm saying I'm forget about the weight loss and all the other symptoms that you google and you find out if you have this sense of wherever you are you don't want to be if you have this sense that what you were is no longer what you are then they're there there is help but more than anything you owe it to yourself to get help and more than anything you owe it to yourself to share this with somebody else because this is not your fault some of the most famous rugged individuals in history Winston Churchill called it as black dog he is arguably the greatest leader of the 20th century one of the toughest mentally toughest men so if if his Depression was not brought on by weakness then why would yours be this isn't your fault this is the luck of the draw and there is help and the moment you decide to share with someone you'll feel better a little bit but you'll feel better you're a pro because you can take account Michael I'm so glad that you're doing so well and we're really glad you came in at Evo tonight to talk about it thanks so much thank you for having me

Channel: The Agenda | TVO Today

Views: 40,191

Keywords: TVO, TVOntario, Agenda, Steve, Paikin, current, affairs, analysis, debate, politics, policy, society, culture, health, mental, depression, science

Id: LWIRGrrX9t8

Length: 17min 27sec (1047 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 30 2011