Methanol Fuel Cells: Powering the Future Webinar

hi good evening everybody my name is Tim I'm from the methanol Institute I small Institute in the capacity as manager for government relations and business development in Asia and Middle East I would like to welcome all persons to the webinar today we'll be focusing on methanol fuel cells and I'll give a short introduction and then we'll let our speakers do the rest for today but before we start just a couple of things to take note participants you are unmuted so don't worry about making a noise in the background we won't be able to hear you but what you can do if you do have questions is that there is a questions tab on your control panel so if you click on the drop-down menu please feel free to type in your questions down there so without further ado I'll just quickly go through an introduction of the methanol Institute amaya was established in 1989 we've been around for more than 30 years right now and hmm sorry just give me one second yes so everybody now now we're beginning so as I mentioned yes mi was established in 1989 we've been around for more than 330 years we are the global trade association for the meth flow industry we have four offices around the wall we are based in Washington DC Brussels Beijing and Singapore that's where I'm based and mi is a membership organization we have four tiers the first years the first year our members with the biggest methanol production capacities and this trickles down into other companies that have small capacities and in Tier four you'd find distributors technology providers etc and you also find some of our fuel cell companies that are presenting their tonight in here for so the work that's done in MI is typically divided into four groups we have the marine fuels committee we have the market development committee the market development committee focuses on different applications to include methanol for cookstoves methanol for industrial boilers and the topic of today which is methanol for in fuel and we have the product stewardship committee which looks at the sea handling of methanol in a variety of applications but we also have lastly the global fuel blending committee which looks at the use of methanol in land transport fuel so that's my short introduction these are our context feel free to take them down there is a tab in your control panel which says handouts and if you click on that that will lead you to a drop down menu where you can download slide deck for today so without further ado I'll introduce my first speaker my first speaker is from Denmark matt is from the blue wall technology company and he'll be giving his presentation on their experience with the methanol for yourself Matt please thank you and thank you for this opportunity to talk a little bit about methanol fuel cells and the blue world and I should have the controls now to skip on ahead there we go so methanol fuel cells as blue world sees it consists of a reformer and a high-temperature PEM fuel cell that uses methanol and produces electricity most applications this will be together with a battery pack of some sort or type and this will power a application with electricity this can be anything from heavy-duty to passenger vehicles and in the general gensets area one thing that can be said in communists where you see a diesel engine today a methanol fuel cell system will be relevant for the future it will be because of co2 savings both using fossil based methanol but especially when using renewable produced methanol and the added efficiency of a fuel cell system will give cost savings because you use less fuel you will use less maintenance for the fuel cell this is coupled with zero harmful emissions which means no particulate for the local environment so blue was very focused on the scale of this technology to actually make a significant impact and this is based on a mass manufacturing of the core elements inside the fuel cell and the fuel cell stack itself we are now building up a pilot plant which will be followed by a larger capacity plant of 50,000 units per year the thing that we are focused on as a company is in the bottom the ethanol fuel cell electric vehicle of different types here as a passenger car and the reason why we focus on this is because the ecosystem of methanol is already existing so the trade is already existing the transportation the ability to store it in a massive scale and especially the production both as a biofuel as a waste fuel and a sandy fuel from renewables like wind and solar that ecosystem is already existing we are basically tapping into it as a consumer of this method all the technology tracked for using methanol and fuel cells there are there many different types you will hear some today some you won't what blue world is focused on is high temperature PEM technology because combining high temperature PEM fuel cells with a methanol reformer gives you some great advantages you don't have to use energy for evaporating your fuel you can reuse the waste heat from the fuel cell and the fuel cell can use the gas reformat directly without cleaning it further from the reformer now these things combined makes an efficient technology platform which is also cost competitive this gives product platform consisting of a modular approach this means several fuel cell stacks for larger applications single fuel cell stacks for small applications a fuel or a fuel reformer that can be scaled based on on that need it has a high electrical efficiency a system built with these components is able to use a hundred percent pure methanol as we can condensate the water coming out of the exhaust so no need for a fuel mix for this kind of system the startup time is 10 minutes from ambient to operation state which means you need in most applications this battery to sort of bridge the immediate demand for electricity and the time where you can actually get electricity from the fuel cells and the operation temperature is around one hundred and sixty degrees so this is an example on how a methanol fuel cell hybrid system can look like you have batteries in the back and you have a fuel cell stack with reformists and all of the system components and basically you are able to put a methanol fuel cell system and a battery pack into the box that used to be a battery box for normal battery electric vehicles making it into a hybrid system and this is how sort of the hybrid system would look like in its entirety in a skateboard configuration of a vehicle and it gives both the end user some significant advantages long range fast refueling cost savings and all those things but it also gives the vehicle manufacturer the OEM some great opportunities to reuse the existing platforms both the skateboard type and passenger vehicles but also the existing hybrid vehicles now that means that you are able to basically build on the vehicles you have today with new fuel cell technology and as before both due to start-up time of the fuel cell system but also due to the great benefits of a battery being able to have a hot high discharge range the combination of a battery pack for the peaks and the fuel cell for range is the way you can both optimize the cost of a drivetrain but also the weight and the size and pretty much everything so methanol fuel cells at least how we see it is a combination of batteries and fuel cells so one thing we are often talking about talking about fuel cells is the efficiency of a total system so coming from renewable electricity onto the vehicle via wheels and there's no doubt about it pure battery electric vehicles are extremely efficient and that cannot be argued methanol fuel cells are I see as efficient as a hydrogen fuel cell it's much more efficient than a combustion engine total efficiency but you also have to look at the effectiveness of other aspects of having a vehicle refueling time the range of your vehicle being able to use cabin heating from the fuel cell weight of the overall drivetrain how the infrastructure is deployed the cost of that infrastructure so there are many aspects and I would say as soon as the benefits from a methanol fuel cell starts to add value that's when you should look at it if you can manage with a battery electric platform as it is today then that's the best platform for you so what blue world's focus on for passenger vehicles and many other vehicles is to optimize this by utilizing a hybrid so using the efficiency of a battery electric drivetrain when possible and using all the other benefits of a methanol fuel cell when that's possible so so that's sort of the combination of the two and and how we see these two different drive trains complementing each other and important point is the overall air pollution and co2 emission normally these two are sort of mixed together but but we see them a little bit separate you can have a low well too real co2 emission but still have air pollution by using biofuels in combustion engines for example so what we try to do is focus on a completely clean exhaust for your local environment and then focus on a well to real low co2 emission aspect when using effuse or biofuels as the source of the energy for the for the methanol so so that's an important fact and we see that having a net carbon neutrality is a perfect way of doing decarbonisation so that's sort of the emission perspective of methanol in fuel cells so if you do a powertrain comparison between vehicles you can see that a methanol fuel cell car has many of the same aspects as a normal combustion in your car has today the main thing is today it's not on the market it will come on the market and what we can see is we will be able to reach roughly the same cost as a combustion engine vehicle in time and in volume the main benefit of such a vehicle is that the mileage would be much better meaning you can save if you operate the vehicle and this means that for applications we are sort of interested in initially is applications where you actually use your vehicle a lot so that's sort of the comparative scope when you look at a methanol fuel cell vehicle and a combustion engine vehicle or even a battery electric vehicle so just focused on passenger vehicles we are also looking very much into other types of vehicles trucks buses vans and even the maritime applications as I said in the intro anywhere you find a diesel engine today is a place where a methanol fuel cell will have a place in the world now one thing there is to be said is if you can manage with an electric bus or an electric ferry being a battery electric bus or battery electric ferry then that's fine that should be the technology to use but every time that you need something more than a pure battery electric variant a methanol fuel cell can easily be integrated using many of the same components as the battery electric variant and to wrap it up blue world is ready to make a difference by deploying these methanol fuel cell systems into vehicle applications into all the applications out there where we can make a difference basically today we are established we are building up a production we have a solid order book from some customers we am have room for more customers and we are basically open for a global deployment of this technology we believe in close partnerships so so this is basically what we're all about and I think that that concludes my talk yes it does Thank You mats so what we'll do is that we'll go on to the next presentation well if Q&A told Yin we've been receiving all your questions and it's been coming in so you have presenters we've got our work cut out for us next up we have Robert suitor from element one Robert would you like to give your presentation right now excellent Tim thank you for the introduction and for inviting me to speak at today's power in the future webinar hello I'm Rob Schlueter I'm president of element one Corp today I'm going to talk to you about using methanol as a transportation you'll for fuel-cell heavy-duty trucks I'm sorry control of the I have control of the PowerPoint okay Robin can try it in know as I work now nope I'll just tell you when to go to next slide okay okay so let me give you a little background about lm-1 Corp V one is a global leader in developing small scale to medium scale advanced hydrogen generation system supporting the fuel cell industry now we offer solutions in both stationary mobile solutions we have a little bit of an interesting business model our business model really is to support made in-country initiatives and so we develop products and technology to pre commercial ready and then we partner with in-country OEMs who provide the manufacturing in the channel to market therefore we're not a large commercial manufacturer Eddy one but we do work with a number of large OMS globally next slide please and so in a in a few key markets fuel cell solutions are finally moving to the demonstration phase and being commercialized in the transportation industry the market knows that the fuel cells solution is commercially ready from a number of different solution providers whether it be Ballard hydrogen experice others there's a number of well-established fuel cell companies out there however traditional hydrogen solutions are expensive and can approach 16 dollars a kilogram at key markets this provides resistance to the adoption of the fuel cell vehicles sometimes is known as the hydrogen challenge lowering hydrogen's total cost per kilogram is the point of use in driving the band for fuel cell vehicles often you'll see that the cost per kilogram is the excess of $12 u.s. which again is very expensive and by its resistance to the adoption of the fuel cell I propose that one's methanol to hydrogen generators can solve this hydrogen challenge next slide please so a couple different problems one is the heavy duty vehicle has to store enough compressed hydrogen to achieve the target distance between the refuelling in addition hydrogen refueling under strong infrastructure is lacking expensive to build you know the solution is to convert the methanol water mix to a high purity hydrogen on board the heavy duty vehicle this is particularly important for trucks that need a lot of flexibility next slide please so let's talk about what a hydrogen gener it is here are a couple examples it's really just a completely self-contained machine that converts to this liquid feedstock to purified hydrogen you have an electrolyzer which splits water and electricity into hydrogen and oxygen however it's got a higher capex and an optics it's driven by the local cost of electricity and it takes about fifteen fifty five kilowatts electricity to develop one kilogram of hydrogen the next type of solution is a natural gas reformer which uses methane plus water to react to make the hydrogen it also has a higher capex and you need to be where a natural gas pipeline infrastructure exists so then we get to the methanol reformer and this is where you're doing a low-temperature reforming versus the higher temperature reforming in natural gas it is much less expensive from a capital perspective and it's also provides the lowest topics with supporting infrastructure very very attractive to the trucking market essentially our technology has the lowest capex and produces the lodal total cost of hydrogen and requires no supporting infrastructure next slide please so talk about these the story of EWTN's technology really are talking about a lot of the benefits of the methanol so methanol is a superior a very hydrogen dense transportation fuel it is a high hydrogen fuel density and you put it right on board the vehicle it's a low cost of fuel with the right technology like he ones and it's available globally it's a low-carbon fuel and has a renewable future just like renewable hydrogen or renewable natural gas and it also reduces the safety risk because you're not storing a lot of high pressure hydrogen on board the vehicle and finally it's it's very cleaning from an exhaust emission standpoint there's known NOx there's no Sox there's no particulate matter you know all you need is the right technology on board the vehicle to unlock the hydrogen in the methanol next slide please so why consider onboard hydrogen generation well you really need to think about in terms of kilowatt hours if you've got a low kilowatt hour solution a pure evie solution is superior so think of very very small cars bikes things of that nature as the kilowatt hours grows on the vehicle through cars then you start looking at a gaseous hydrogen fuel cell vehicle and then as you go up into the hundreds of kilowatts to megawatts scale you need a liquid fuel to really provide that hydrogen density aboard the vehicle or e1 plays is really in kind of word that the bus scenario where you need route flexibility or you've got lots of hills all the way to the class 8 trucks trains and the marine vehicle next slide please so in this slide we're really just trying to communicate here is it methanol is a very energy dense hydrogen fuel and on a volume basis methanol has almost six times the energy density of compressed hydrogen at 350 bar as a visit according to energy gov here in the United States now slide please so let's talk a little bit about the the vehicle architecture when you're using a one's technology so you have a liquid method on water tank it's going to be on the truck or the boat or the train and then you really have our platform where we take that liquid feedstock we pressurize it and a very compact reactor we vaporize that fuel and then it hits a catalyst bed and we break it into its component parts hydrogen co and co2 and then we really have our key proprietary technology our hydrogen membrane purifier and through a pressure differential we provide fuel cell great hydrogen to the fuel cell who in turn provides electricity to drive the power to the wheels that's a very simple operation very inexpensive to manufacture that very good a load following the vehicle as it's going through its mission and again if you use a renewable methanol then it's a zero emission type technology next slide please so as we look at the specifics of the technology you know this is really designed to replace hydrogen compressed hydrogen on board the vehicle at the the feedstock as I've mentioned is a mix of methanol and di water roughly two-thirds one-third and we can support applications in a single very compact module from 30 kilowatts all the way up to 300 kilowatts and it produces a very fuel cell grade hydrogen with no CO or CO 2 and the target uses for this are heavy-duty trucks buses trains and marine vessels when you look to the right here you see a system supporting a 50 kilowatt fuel cell on board medium duty vehicle in China that's sad going through integration currently next slide please if you same vehicle here's an illustration where this medium duty vehicle was using compressed hydrogen gas and again I'm just kind of showing this to illustrate how much additional range you can get out of the same platform in this this platform here I'd had enough compressed hydrogen supporting the in this case a 40 kilowatt fuel cell for 13 hours of operation and that same volume using our M series methyl and hydrogen generator you can get 67 hours of operation out of that vehicle and almost five times the range next slide please so this is a stray Shanor a picture showing our system and a test and this will be shipped to another truck manufacturer here next week to China also for a medium duty application this one is sized to 60 kilowatts and as one of the shades very compact in size roughly 53 inches high 50 inches across and the hot box there which is the key component there is 60 inches long the controls actually are wrapped into the vehicle controls on a commercial model and the balance of plant can be bolted wherever aboard that truck next slide please so this last year we were down at California fuel cell seminar we had an opportunity to look at a class 8 truck that was put together by the Toyota Kenworth partnership and so in the back of the cab there they had a ver they kind of a higher the typical cab but within this cab they had stored sport hydrogen about 60 kilograms worth and they estimated their range of 300 miles now if you'd put our system in that same volume there you'd get a range of a thousand miles using six hundred and fifty gallons of methanol water mix next slide please so let's talk about payload and energy density when you talk to fleets trucking fleets what they care about is what is the paid cargo and the ranges they can achieve and a lot of the class 8 trucks particularly in the North America you need to have these very long ranges thousand miles range is very typical and if people look to compare diesel fuel versus compressed hydrogen versus e ones technology this is what you kind of this is how it affects the different load requirements so typically they would have a load of about 50,000 pounds that a diesel truck would pull and they'd have a storage of diesel fuel about 210 gallons if you go to a compressed hydrogen solution to achieve that same range you would need a hundred and sixty-five kilograms of compressed hydrogen on that and which takes up about 7800 liters of space in that vehicle so you're reducing the space load of that truck as well as the way load of that truck using our systems essentially save about 60 percent of the weight excuse me 30 percent of the volume and 60 percent of the weight equivalent of the compressed hydrogen solution having a much more payload comparable to the diesel solution next slide please and so this is really the key slide for the trucking industries that when we're talking to them it's the fuel cost comparison so assuming a diesel fuel cost of $3 a gallon for our truck that we just defined there your cost and annual cost to be about ninety thousand dollars a year using methanol and water as a feedstock and assuming we're producing hydrogen or four dollars a kilogram using 40 dollars a metric tonne for the cost of methanol you're getting solution that has a hundred thousand dollars into the year fuel cost very comparable to the diesel fuel solution you used compressed hydrogen assuming $14 a kilogram is that the point of use cost for that truck you're getting a fuel cost that's more than 3x the time exceeding three hundred thousand dollars for that truck is the driving factor that that's going to really propel methanol as a transportation ship next slide please so as we start to wrap up here I just wanted to provide visibility that our technology can work with any low-temperature PEM fuel cell out there our systems have been integrated in the stationary markets with with pencils from horizon Ballard hydrogenic intelligent energy nad stack it really doesn't matter these are great products fuel cell products they all need the same type of hydrogen at the same pressure at the stack and we have an easy pathway of integration to all of these technologies next slide please so this is our concluding slide here and this is really what I want you to walk away with you know gaseous hydrogen has significant limitations in regards to logistics infrastructure cost it is really not practical for heavy-duty transportation liquid methanol whoever is a low-carbon fuel it has a high hydrogen density low cost liquid logistics and storage and has reduced safety risk versus compressive hydrogen and it is practical for heavy duty transportations he ones mobile m-series solutions for heavy-duty transportation supports extended range requirements and allows for a typical vehicle mission and significantly reduces the investment in hydrogen refueling stations our products unlocks the benefits of methanol and solves the hydrogen challenge and when you use renewable methanol when it comes available on the market in large quantities now you're driving towards a zero emission sustainable future we really believe that our technology will accelerate the adoption of fuel cell power solutions thank you very much and I would welcome your questions either during the panel or afterwards if you want to learn more about our technology thank you thank you Robert I'm sorry about that technical issue mixed up we have a presentation from Pelican dr. Johnson is representing Falcon today I'm gonna try to give him the controls right now and see if we can avoid that issue earlier dr. John please hi everyone thanks blood for this opportunity and my presentation is okay okay I will put the academic building here let me see you might have to alternate tag okay so you should be able to click on this link you take away you should used to be able to move the slides on your own to know okay this is your first slide to freedom I'll do for you okay okay next time you know that right now I'm trying talking about is the mention of you use your technology in the Asia market so next slide yeah so the particularly I'm talking about is in China or India like that and you know that in those countries and not ruching is a big problem and also any typical congenita and it is also resource is also related you know limited so people here is trying to find a new way to to solve it from next slide okay so talking about the the energy history so while fusil and the hybrids getting hot and hot in these areas because of the energy efficiency and also you know the carbon reduction carbon emission reduction that's true way to get the hypophyseal getting hotter and hotter next side not okay so in channel right now the majority fused their technologies using that hydrogen tank and I mean and compress the hide intact but you know that - presented earlier they already talked about that the highly compressed hiding in his some colorful limitation is because of the cost and safety issue and the Builder highly strategic it's a really tough problem and so in Canada right now is about several about fifty having stages built but told la beauté is all in the limited will far from sitting to for a safe visit next and also compared to those problems in China right now than building a national or infrastructure is cool because particularly that issue is in China right now methanol is biggest the production country in China and 60% of methanol produced in China because of 18 years ago Chinese come and trying to make the whole and clean coal technology so they start to use some of the coal to methanol next I think this the problem is here the speed is the Y speed is very slow so I cannot get income okay so these two table tell people that the methanol in future instructing channa first is a 60% of production located in China also in China all those national filling station the regulation standard all those thing is already filled up and so it's easily for people to assess the National particularly total mess alone as a fuel for for for heating for keep cooking even right now for the net internet inning the Metro is already started a lap I mean the Boomer and I know there's 10,000 taxi running in cm proper see a city and also about more than tens Tech's taxi this is internal in even during the mess no that's in the peak velocity that's only within two years there's more than thirty thousand vehicle running methanol in the country so this is just enabling when it should have and right now last year that Chinese government have with the eight ministries joint clears issue a document promote people to use methanol as a few next so next not moving okay so this is just two people that all those regulation and national feelings taking set up policy all those documenting front government is leading and in China right now there is three week who used metal as a few been terribly use a mesh to talk as a heating is in the northern part this countryside is a quite available and also let internal engine and the third one is used fuel cell as a use methanol future and I will talk about later and the in table shoe the people is if you use a new technology which is listed all those character clothes is some kinda you know that the limit to the conditioned soul is limited application but national with an analysis the all those elements like that the efficiency autos in we found that emotional fuel cell is actually there's a really little say that resistant to commercialize next remove the next act [Music] so Falcon Falcon is actually start a future business in Vancouver 20 years ago with woody welder para having technology future technology start with the e bicycle then portable world then seven years ago which that enchanted to develop at the national reform the future technology and because we found that this way and third kilowatt cost is lost and HP each lip is really have an advantage we use the technologies half and future technology as a probe word similar and we have two products right now move next look the first way is a fact here one module and we can put together stack together as you want and the second one is so we have a portable module that mu had a move move next and that two products is already we commercializing in China and also we use that in a different area so move move move next and the enchanted ELISA a news is because the new blue with the new book produces national news solar and the site called see you too it is also a big production and I mean the feeder testing facility building China and and when some tongue capacity is also stud view that is the the new book methanol production also studying channel these okay hey okay move move move further next time okay I want talk to these people and the most specific because this is a truck building novel there's a full platform build in the Sam Sam Sam platform is a photon truck and they builded a diesel truck and also the back to back back to the and this truck they held for tight perfume first is be the ho and the second is staggered is a fuse national fuel cell and there and also battery also happening and we run it is ARCA okay move move solder here is because the slightly not catch me catch it catch up so it's automatically movie Muazzam I don't know what okay sorry for that so with reality well for vehicle we also develop the ups and also with develop the backup our surprise and also we develop potable all those application is running now these these these pictures just show you in a same track we use the method of user us use the high pressure compress the hive infusion solid because the the depth study is just move on so ok move ahead okay here back to it so we just show you the difference here all the same almost the same space pick up and use methanol fuel cell we can running a 500 500 kilometers and the use usually bought whole I think learning about 350 Commodus so a big difference a similar almost me with this is the vehicle with the web and okay this is just the truck to a build okay move the next because I'm sorry can move next okay this is the document we have Chinese government for the form of measures only for future standard for our track this is we have to come the beautiful ease standard for for for me and these is the first one in China issued a license to our street can you can officially running on street next okay this is we converted that SUV for the to module two in the back and that diesel vehicle is Eevee version and we're a little module and then these capacity can be a hundred kilometers with run this vehicle fragile - Beijing and that's just one way to go together and I love this vehicle is used as engineering maintenance vehicle for for telecom industry motor next okay I know we have a joint project with a local manufacturer love automatic battery developer SUV integrated SUV used our technology so national to national fuel cell as a few I think in the Asia initiative in China is a potential potential application so thank you so sorry for for for for that be because like and PPG and it cannot catch up sometime sorry so I will stop here with the chain sorry for that yeah no worries I'm sorry about the technical problems for people on the call if you are not able to catch what dr. John was for about feel free to provide your questions in Q&A and what we'll do is we'll try to go through some of his content during Q&A where we will not be encumbered by technical issues so next up we have Roland Gumpert from Germany who be presenting on his new fuel cell car but before we proceed we would like to play a short video for you audience right now okay so right now I would like to invite rowland to give his presentation right now rolling please yeah thank you Tim for your presentation and introduction it's my name is all and comput and I want you invite to saw our label scenario driving technology with hydrogen generated from methanol once again this is our car not only I hope all of you have enough money in the future to buy this maybe of course our vision is to use this technology for each car small or big and we start this business with electric cars then was my my idea was to build a car which didn't stop when the battery is dead this is a main thing the battery is dead your electric car who is driven by battery is not not possible any longer in normal electric cars yes we do have batteries batteries only have a range of 100 to 350 kilometers and if there is written more don't trust disease because there is aircon heating in the wintertime and other consumers of electricity so I have never driven a car which is more which has more big mod a bigger distance than 350 kilometers the entire charging infrastructure would require a doubling of the existing electricity network and the implementation would take decades another disadvantage the waiting times it's a charging station are not technologically acceptable so long waiting times do not have to be with our technology for me means freedom driving when I get a telephone call I have to be able to go into my car and to drive to any other city without any planning this means freedom for me and once again the question is electoral driving the future yes there is no doubt that this is the case to make this feasible we have to use hydrogen but to produce electricity during driving because with our technology this is possible there is no risk of explosion we do not work with high pressure up to 800 bath like normal hydrogen cars our highest pressure is below 30 bars we do not need no new petrol station because the conversion from diesel to methanol is an each fuel station is the cost of about 2000 euro only transportating hydrogen is extremely energy intensive and has higher hazard classes than methanol a hydrogen filling station costs between 1 to 3 million euro here in Germany it must not be close to other buildings for explosion protection reasons there is a law in Germany that the distance between residential buildings must be handled meters to a fueling station of hydrogen and the distance between a normal filling station and the hydrogen must be 300 meters because of danger so now I want to come to our come to the key effects and the parameters Natalie first edition we can drive 820 kilometers we will refuel the car within three minutes of course this is a sporty car and we do have four-wheel drive and we get pecs energy during braking that means we do have recuperation we have a 65 litre methanol fuel tank and in Germany it is possible because of our highways we can drive the cars a maximum speed of 300 km/h acceleration is like in a racecar 2.5 seconds to the from 0 to 100 km/h and the total force of the car is horsepower is 400 kilowatt and the energy capacity in the car is the methanol and the battery itself it is 190 kilowatt hours compared to compare competitor like Porsche they do have maximum 80 kilowatt hours that means we do have more than double of them if the battery is dead empty then our car is going a hundred kilometers we have driven we have written here 120 but I would say under km/h without batteries so just with a few cell of course our car is a sporty car it's a coupe a with two seats later maybe we can add two children seats the surface of the car is made by carbon and the wicker frame is written or grill frame maybe we will frame is better expression is made by chrome moly team steel and this is also good for races so this car is fulfilling the race track regulations and you can just go with a number play to the rhetoric and compete against normal race cars we have aerodynamic from the underground and from the rear spoiler and our dimensions the car is about four point four meter length the whites is two meters I is one point three meter so very low and say maximum weight is 1000 kilo and now for the specialist under you I will give even a closer look to our technical details so we are ready to produce 500 cars within the next four years that means we start next year and then the end of production will be 2004 so complete talk of citta is more than 1000 Newton meter that is really really big big amount we have a voltage system of 400 volts and we calculated the average consumption with about 20 kilowatt hours we can charge the complete car when the battery is completely empty within 2 hours that means 22 hours coming from the electricity network and 15 kV coming from our fuel cell refueling with methanol fuel tank within 3 minutes I said already and the peak operation is nearly hundred percent up to deceleration of 0.3 meter per square second yes here we have written with the speed with empty battery is 80 but I will correct this to 100 kilometers minimum per hour the fuel capacity of 65 litre methanol means hundred 18 kilowatt hours in in if I speak about electricity the fuel cell power is up to 15 kilowatt but the read capacity is between 60 and 70 kilowatt hours and the battery to take the electricity out of the battery we can use for a short time 450 kV that means even if we have a written 400 kilo Watts the next line force of all engines we can use 450 kilowatt for approximately 20 seconds to accelerate the car the electric engines are maximum speeds maximum revs of the engines are 12000 revs per minute and the first we have two years the first year is going to 170 kilometers per hour and the second gear is going up to 300 kilometers per hour so of course and this is sport car but it is just to show the future of hydrogen from a fuel cell is beyond question and methanol is the carrier carrier is like a train for me the crane takes goods and transportating them for us methanol is carrying the hydrogen and going to the fuel cell and just bringing with the hydrogen electricity so methanol is a perfect solution and our vision for all weekend vehicles in the future if they are small or big this is the future this is our system and we are working and we are this is the right way we have built a lot of cars in the last time we have built small cars we have built because here's an example of a small car this methanol performing yourself this is the working test vehicle from us so we caught this car from the German government we finish this car last November curry that is normally quiet we finish this car last November November and we making endurance tests now since eight months and this car is a very good example being small or big so I'm convinced that we can build cars from 40 horsepower up to a 40 ton trucks and the fuel cell in this car is a small size is a medium-sized treble case and of course all these vehicles are emission free this is the future without mineral oil this small car shows once again this is a city car our vision every car small or big this is built with our can be built with in with our system no problem at all and showing you where we are who we are in the south of Germany we are coming from Bavaria we are ready to have the car for the future here in English that we can we have a production line nearby Ingolstadt we have orders from all over europe we expect the first the wiggles they live at next year customers in the first half of 2001 2021 and of course i have to say we are discussing and going to the public a lot but we had a lot a lot of Edwin coming from everywhere so from the customers from the politics from normal people and they don't believe us they close their eyes there yes and we have to discuss and to discuss so that means we need support from business and politics to bring this technology to a wider range and I am convinced with such baby Maha maybe now maybe in and results such presentation we are on the right way I I hope with your support only with your support we can be successful we on the right way this is the future and thank you very much I hope to see you very soon in the future somewhere and they come to Ingolstadt we can drive a car we have enough cars here make a small visit to us and yes Corona is nearly over hope to see you very soon and follow my invitation thank you very much thank you rollin so now we'll proceed to the Q&A session we've been getting a lot of questions from everybody what I'll ask is for our presenters to unmute themselves right now but due to the technical issues that we were facing just now I'm gonna start with dr. John Chen so we can go through some of your thoughts on methanol fuel cells in China and Asia so doctor coefficient one of the questions that we got was what are the main challenges that has to be addressed first before and consumers can fully accept the use of methanol fuel cells I'm assuming in the automotive applications or perhaps maybe other applications but maybe address the automotive wonders okay can't hear me yep okay oh yeah so talking about in china i think that in china start with in the car there's surely about advantages because the national infrastructure is quickly build up in china but the problem is still us of the cost the national future cost is a big issue because in today's view and the methanol fuel cell compared to battery there's at least a couple of all-time high cost and battery so that's the definition also so currently certain so we need volume at the veggies so i mean many of the volume and if richard sure they can reduce the cost and we already calculated and and projected that if for those lower material production can be mass-produced and get the cost down quickly then the cost reduction care and realized the in china okay so doctor should i think there's one question that i would like to ask you and I would ask the other presenters also and there is you know in today's discussion about fuel the future there are different kinds of fuels out there in the market a question that we received from the audience is why do we why why why should you use methanol as compared to ammonia as a fuel and ammonia for a few you first need to understanding or needed to know that a national wide view what kind of few I'm backin by government because a lot of choice but the government is a key factor to promote and the methanol is already it have 18 years by coming to promote as fuel for energy security and also for you know clean in I mean those is a policy really clearly indicated by the current policy and ammonia I don't think there's any plan to do the do the infrastructure execution so next on I'll go to mats and we do have a couple questions here the first one is what is the efficiency of the hydrogen electrolyzer and methanol fuel cell what is the complete cycle efficiency for both cases including production storage transportation and all the way to wheel so quite a let's go and oh it's so so basically if you factor in all the elements between using pure hydrogen in a compressed manner or even liquefied manner versus methanol it's roughly the same around 22 to 25 percent system efficiency overall now you can do this calculation in many ways but this is roughly the the order of magnitude you're talking about so you you will gain you will gain of course some efficiency because you don't have to combine carbon with with with hydrogen you just need to compress it but then you also need to transport it so so so it's roughly the same efficiency in terms of the full cycle the next question I'll try to combine two and one due to the time limit and that is do you have any working prototypes in operation I'm assuming this is your methanol fuel cells in the automatic automotive application and and after that the question was what is the lifespan of the HTT Pam Sufi also as far as the methanol reformer that you guys are using so yes we are in in in production not to scale at all so so we have started and we have proven our sort of core technology but we are still at an early stage in terms of production so that's sort of one and the lifespan so for passenger vehicles it's five to six thousand hours which we can do and we do that at a high power density and for other applications we have different mechanisms to to reach up to five or six times that lifetime which is needed in the truck or the maritime area expense question is interesting when I think this will go to both Mads and Robert because this is a question that's addressing both your companies and your relevant technologies so the question is where is the difference between blue wall and E one how does blue or convert methanol to h2 in the fuel or cell so I I guess max you wanna suffice yes I can I can at least try well I think there's many differences between the companies I think the main difference is that that that we do both high-temperature PEM fuel cell sex and methanol reformists which we manufacture ourselves and take to market through partners we do not do what was explained about the proprietary cleanup we don't use that because of the high temperature PEM where as as Robert does and and then you can take the rest certainly thank you Maddy I was I was gonna kind of focus on the same areas here so he one technology were focused purely on converting the methanol water feedstock and to feel cell grade hydrogen and then we can work with a variety fuel cell technology low temperature pen technologies in the marketplace which is the dominant pen technology and particularly in the transportation and stationary power space small scale in really the key to our technology to driving to the low cost that's going to allow the adoption is how about pure firing that hydrogen with our proprietary membrane technology so it's an easy convert to crack the methanol it's a low temperature and then we were able to purify it very inexpensively thanks Robert so a question that's kind of building up on what you just mentioned I just came from the audience and they were asking if you could elaborate slightly more about your hydrogen purifier what type of technology does it utilize as they involve precious metals and what sort of hydrogen purities are attainable certainly thank you so I understand that you're looking at Oh watch just kind of generally that the makeup of the technology and the use of precious metals so essentially yes we do use a plenty of membrane foils that the really our IP is around how you structure so that you can get these targeted 20,000 our lifetimes out of the systems it's really about how to get the long life without the breakthroughs of CO or CO 2 in the system over the life of that of that purifier and in the second part of your question was what that I'm sorry I didn't write that down no worry uh the second part was with your with your purifier what sort of purities are we looking at hydrogen so typically we're getting 99.99% pure hydrogen and there's no measurable seal or co2 as you know or people that are familiar with the Pam stacks actually Ballard when they had reforming technology routinely ran their systems down to 99.9% as long as there's no CO or CO 2 and that stream the fuel cell are run just fine but for the greatest efficiency want to be at that upper level and our systems when we deliver them are typically at that 99.99% purity actually so the next question Robert is okay I think this is why can't you use the recycle water that's produced from your solution so that instead of using a methanol and water blend you're using pure methanol instead and then you're just recycling and pumping the water back into the system no excellent question and so it's it really depends on the application for a truck based solution you're gonna use a premix just for space constraints and which what you're going to do but as we're working on some of these marine projects where you know you're looking at megawatt scale power we are going to take the water from the fuel cell and do a and mix in in process of making the hydrogen's so we'll do the mixing in real time to the field reformer you still have to add a little bit of water it's not a it's not a direct one one but it can be very close and we have the technology to do that as well thanks for a bit the next question oh it's another question for blue wall anyone so the question is how are your companies trying to overcome the heat up time associated with methanol reformers for vehicle applications you can go first that's fine certainly so for from my application you know we're not really focused on that the car application because that is that is the challenge is that there's a lot of metal mass that you have to keep be kept hot and so for our applications you're whether you're dealing with trucks you're dealing with fleets you know where you're leaving and coming back to the same location so when we're in operation we're creating our own heat necessary for the chemical reaction but at the end of the day you go back to the bus barn or the fleet the fleet warehouse and you're just gonna plug it in to keep it hot using a very very low amount of grid power to maintain that system and also it cools down very very slowly you can go a number of hours we're out needing any kind of power external power to keep the system hot and then you go up into the larger applications and those are typically 24/7 when you're talking about trains or marine vessels there they're always on so that's so that's not necessarily challenged in that market yeah and so so so the difference is on the the high-temperature pentose Reforma systems you do have a from cold fast out of time of these five to ten minutes and I mean we would never go any slower or any faster than that due to the effects of the battery pack so we are basically relying on this hybridization strategy which has many good effects on the side of just the startup aspect so so that's how we're dealing with that and yeah excellent next question Roland said this is for you the question is what is the advantage of using methanol in a fuel cell rather than a internal combustion engine because the internal combustion engine can be readily modified to take on methanol a few also yeah if you have a combustion engine you'll burn it and then you have a lot of pollution maybe the co co d oxidase 20% less but still you burn it and you have all the burnt parts in in the pollution with our methanol hydrogen fuel cell you have no pollution it is clean that's main thing here in Germany you have to have a clean car even the battery cars now as they are not cleaned because the gets electricity out of carbon food action electricity companies but in our case we do have no pollution we do not have a no leak so we must have so it's just the Bhushan free and that's a future the next question is for I mean for rollin also but I think this is it points to what your your business model try to understand how you intend to roll out your cars because they're there they are ready for manufacturing right now and once they hit the the consumer market how the consumers expecting to refuel their vehicles when you can't get methanol at a pump station or petrol station right now as I said already to convert a normal diesel pump to methanol fuel pump is about 1,500 to 2,000 euro and we will buy a meet or rent a fuel pump from freeze station on ona for about 3000 euro per month and then we will convert this diesel pump to methanol fuel pumps each customer who has gotten Nathalie he will have also his own fuel methanol fuel pump in his town and if he is living on a small village then we will deliver free of charge the first year as a methanol - to him and it was a snowball effect and then of course it will go by itself actually so I I think the next part I'll come back to you dr. Shin so you can we can ask you a bit about what you think about Asia I mean beyond beyond just China I think China is very well established in terms of using methanol in different applications it's widely available if Roland were to roll out his business in China I don't think his consumers would have a problem with finding a pump station if you are in the right province to refuel their vehicles but outside of China dr. john deere do you see that kind of potential for methanol fuel cells to be taken up in in in say for example cars or LAN transport vehicles in here I have a lot in Singapore Malaysia and also in the air autos I found a particular application is that Peka Peka power supply that way the power and the because a lot of Ireland there is no good great supply the power so there's a lot of blackout happens so I think that that power is a big market and like a lot of Indian people contacts to ask us to subscribe those back power for the telecom and also other system earlier they needed to continue run so the equipment and there's a good project actually we we contact them and talked about in Singapore is elevator power and the dead time we don't have the master officer we have only king bottle fuels that feel high at that time because the safety issue although since the way could not continue but I know I think is good good time to do some tests in Singapore and because of the corona I would have to study it but we plan so use methanol future as a backup our four elevator that's the we did quite a lot of math study and I also talked about government and I think is quite interested thanks dr. John so the next question I'll post this both to blue ball and anyone again and that was doing do your presentations I think we touched the bond we touched upon lower emissions or zero emissions for example could you clarify maybe let's start with Matt what are we looking at with your fuel so like in terms of emission profile and how there is a line we've saved for example the Paris agreement or national ambitions to lower greenhouse gas emissions yes well well that's where normally you you try to combine both you could say environmental and climatic emissions but but this is pretty much separate so from the a tailpipe you have nothing except co2 so see YouTube's the only thing coming out of the 10 5 there is harmful and I would say co2 is harmful for the environment but not for the person as such so when we're talking the climate courts and reaching the decarbonization it's not about what comes out of the exhausts its where do you get your fuel from as Roland mentioned if you get your electricity from a coal power plant in Germany it doesn't make sense so the aspect of where you get the power from is what will determine how we can reduce our co2 footprint now when it comes to to to to particle emissions and other stuff that comes out of the tailpipe that is bad for people there is absolutely zero we measure our emissions based on the whu-oh the World Health Organization standards for breathable working air or breathable air in the working environment so so that's sort of how we we frame this and I would say no vehicle battery electric hydrogen methanol fuel cell either will make sense if you use fossil fuels to power experts probably yeah so the you know currently where technology is being adopted is in markets where pollution is really the issue so think of China think of India markets like that there were engaged in demonstrations at these other other parts of the world that are adopting fuel cells and the question is how do you get to this zero emission solution and it's really about the availability of renewable or green methanol in the marketplace it is produced in small quantities by a number of providers but it's mostly being shipped to Europe as a fuel additive in that market and so for currently in the demonstrations we're doing like in the States we talk about that as a renewable future but until there is demand for renewable methanol I can't actually have have my customers acquire it in small company assumptions in small quantities and really we need to have larger quantities because it's not a technology issue about renewable methanol it's really a demand issue and why we're in this kind of this intermediate phase where we're just kind of piloting and demonstrating the technology there's not enough demand for do the factories but we're also engaged with a number of companies that are coming out with some very significant renewable methanol plants here in the near future over the next couple years that I should be able to start directing our customers to and achieving the zero emission goal that is really that the focus worldwide thanks for a bit so I've got a shin full roll in here let me try to find it this is a really interesting one so I think this is quite interesting for me also as an end consumer how can we help you how can we help you bring this technology to market in such a way that we can buy it at a cost that it's a comfortable of our wallets of course the we have a spot calm and as I said we can even on the racetrack we have a cage we have everything in the car so it really collects a car we will produce 500 pieces and each piece cost four hundred and seven thousand euro so that's a really big amount but if you go to competitor as a Porsche for example it is also available now for let me say I 200 to 250 thousand Europe with equipment and we a little bit more expensive we but with our car you have not so danger to stop on the highway and so you can continue you have a rent of eight hundred twenty kilometres you will go to a refueling station you have a pit stop for three minutes and then you can continue this will not happen with real battery car likes a Porsche and this is now the new future the new our vision for the future for everybody also as I said 40 horsepower car like we did it with a portable with a smart so this is for everybody the system which we work without pollution thanks Roland so I think that leads us to the end of today's webinar I am I do apologize for people who who have sent in your questions but we did not have the time to answer them what I'll do is I do have a list of the questions that were sent in today I'm going to send it around the presenters and after the webinar what they could do is email your your your your responses to you so once again I would like to thank my presenters everybody who came on board today thank you very much for your presentations and thank you my friends for coming on the webinar today this is the second webinar in a series of webinars is hosted by the methanol Institute we will be announcing the third webinar which which should come out sometime at the end of next month so do look out for that if not thank you everybody and have a good day - thank you I thank you goodbye

Channel: Methanol Institute

Views: 16,909

Keywords: fuel cells, methanol, energy technology, science, automotive, alternative energy

Id: w9nJMhB_RNQ

Length: 90min 46sec (5446 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 01 2020