Meet The Creator of Magnacut | Larrin Thomas

foreign [Music] so folks we've got the man the myth the legend Laren Thomas himself right here Laren thank you so much for joining us today and uh it kind of uh you know out of the blue we we got a message from you and you were like hey I'm I'm in town um gonna come by the store and we were like yes absolutely so um so you're the father of Magna cut but we want to take uh some time and take a trip back how did you get into knives how did you get into blade steel and you were just telling me something really interesting uh kind of about that origin story about your dad yeah so my dad is Devin Thomas he's known for making Damascus especially stainless Damascus and uh you know he really was selling this in like the late 80s early 90s and some of the early days of selling Damascus period and stainless Damascus was a new mythical thing you know in the past it was mostly forging guys making their own Damascus and the folder guys were not that interested but once they had it in thin stock and stainless then my dad science business really blew up and became a big name in the industry and so I was not interested in his business as a child you know it's just what my dad did but then in my teen years he took me to a couple hammerings and a couple knife shows and what interested me really was the advertising so you'd see the Custom Knife guys and I remember one guy he had a fillet knife and he would bend at 90 degrees back and forth and he said this is because I use a special steel I can't tell you what it is and then I he treat it in this special way which I won't tell you what that is so you know it's like all of these secrets I'm like wow what is this going on and then even when they do advertise things there was like ATS 34 154cm were big at that time and so I'd ask my dad all these steel comparison questions and you know we would talk and of course he knows some steel Metallurgy from having to make Damascus and then my my nerdy engineer brain you know really got interested in all those aspects and so I started reading everything I could so John verhoven he's a professor of Metallurgy at Iowa State he's famous for woots and he came out with a self-published book that was free at the time and I read through that thing in high school and I loved it and So eventually I went on to get a degree in Metallurgy I have a PhD so very fancy so compared to what my parents were doing uh and and so you know I was working developing Automotive sheet steel for U.S steel research and I really liked it it's not like you know I didn't enjoy my job but you know in the in the breaks in between Automotive steel I'm like wow can I get back in a knife steal more as a hobby so I started up knife steel nerds which is a website and I published a book knife engineering and I just started doing a ton of experiments on knife steel you know all the questions that I always had that people always ask on how do you optimize heat treatments what are the best deals for this or that and eventually I thought okay is it realistic for me to make my own knife steel this is really what got me into steel Metallurgy to begin with like making my own Steels was really exciting s30v came out in my late teens early teens somewhere in there yep uh and I was so excited and I would talk to The Crucible guys from the steel company crucible that makes it and just pester them with questions like how did you choose this much chromium like how how did you know how much Vanadium to put in there why did you add more Molly in this one you know and I I just was geeking out and and they they would talk to me they're always very nice you know even though they're fancy metallurgists and I was just a teenager son of a Damascus maker you know so they're always very kind of course everyone in the knife industry is kind not just the metal are just so you know the community is an important aspect of everything and uh yeah so that was my excitement from the beginning and I started playing around with different things so I had modeled out all of this stuff like I would heat treat a ton of different Steels and then use that to predict hardness based on composition and the temperature you heat treat from and so I had all these different simple models for predicting knife still Behavior based on composition and some computer software that also does some predictions and so I fed all those different models together and I found a space in you know the property map that was empty and I'm like wow this space looks really good you know so we had non-stainless and stainless Steels right this is the old age competition you know the battle like which one is better and non-stainless was better in terms of toughness Edge retention combination the non-stainless powder Metallurgy Steels were up here in the property map and the stainless Steels were down here they just couldn't have the same property combination but Magna cut it has a microstructure are similar to The non-stainless Steels with the stain resistance of the best stainless Steels available and I was like wow this is this could be a game changer and so I go to Crucible steel and Niagara so Crucible they atomized the powder and make the ingots and then Niagara they roll it out and anneal it and sell it to the distributor so I talked to both those companies and I pitched to them and of course The Crucible metallurgist guy working at the Mill he's like I don't know about this guy you know I'm like 30 in my early 30s you know and I work at a steel Research Center not on tool steel and so you know he's quizzing me on if I know anything about what I'm talking about because you know Mill metal are just they don't trust research Metals we're just Ivory Tower guys that make unrealistic things you know uh so you know I had to leave his fears and be like you know I think it can work for these reasons and they had enough confidence in me to give it a try and uh we had to make 5 000 pounds of it which is a lot for like if you're developing something in a lab but not very much for normal steel production which can be twenty thousand forty thousand pounds but it's still expensive to make five thousand pounds right and if it had gone way wrong I'm sure they would have said you know we gave it a try you know better luck with another company kind of thing but we we hit it on the first try that first Ingot of Steel it worked right it had all the properties I said it was going to have so you know that that gave me a lot of uh street cred uh right from the start and it really did fit in that property range that I expected it to and so you know I I listed that on my website like here's the new steel here's the properties we measured you know real measurements not just we think it's good right you know we test the toughness with a real impact toughness tester I have an edge retention tester in my garage which we can discuss how I got that maybe another time and uh if the properties turned out great and so I promoted that and it's also in a space that's good for production knives I think it's tougher to use for Custom Knife makers because they do hand rubbed finishes right and when you have Vanadium or niobium added to it that makes really hard carbides that are harder than the abrasive in the Sandpaper but for production knives it's great and some Brave Custom Knife makers do use it luckily and so uh they are starting to use it some switching over even which is really exciting so uh every blade show now I get given a couple knives you know again the great people in our community and I buy a bunch and my wife keeps asking me where all these knives are gonna go and uh you know it's like well we got room in the house don't you worry so and you you mentioned this off camera and this was really cool so what was the timeline what what what time are we talking about where you were in talks with Crucible and with Niagara here oh that would have been like 2019 ish somewhere around there oh okay and then Magna cut came out in 2021 so pretty recently yep you know so people are asking where is the magnacon I'm like well I mean they have orders of Steel in they have steel you know like it takes time to switch over if anything some of the companies were like why did you guys Rush this out so quickly like give us a slow lead time you know like release it behind the scenes first and uh because there's been a lot of demand for this deal oh absolutely and so when Isaac and I and you were mentioning this you know we got to make a trip up to Crucible in Niagara yeah I was jealous back in uh in 2021 and actually when we made that trip they were doing some some testing on stuff and they were like yeah we can't really show you the information on this and this is something yeah we can't really put a name on that so um we can't show you anything about it outside and I wonder what that is and then it was just like a couple of months later after we made that trip that you made the announcement um that it was actually going to be coming out and I was like man I've been wondering ever since there that is that what they were working on when we were there it could have been and uh I'm guessing the guy you were talking about was probably Bob yeah yeah absolutely yeah he he's a nice guy you know he's wonderful he's not scary but you know he's got to do some probing and make sure that we know what we're doing I mean we're talking about Bob's kavitsky here who has been at this game for a really long time and he knows his stuff he knows what he's doing actually we did um our first blade still video and one of the guys that worked there at the time he doesn't work there anymore but Chris um actually commented on it was like have you been talking to one of our guys like Bob or something because you guys know way more than your you should about how this process is done and I was like well I've got a little bit of experience not a lot but I worked in metal fabrication so I've got a little bit of experience in you know knowing the properties of Steels never got that deep into it but that's why I've always thought it was so fascinating and especially after I came across your website I just geeked out immediately and you were talking about Custom Knife makers using um your steel McNeese is one now he's kind of changed gears to doing more production runs on knives but he still makes them in his small shop in Alabama and he's one of those that has switched over to using predominantly Magna cut on a lot of his knives yeah that's awesome and I mean he's just I mean one of my favorite knife makers out there he's a really cool dude anyway he's really nice guy and I love the stuff that he's putting them putting out of course we did our case Marilla and Magna cut that was our exclusive right there and then when actually Magna cut was first made available this is one of the first ones that I got to do some testing with and to do something bushcrafting with right there and we got I think three or four of them that we did some extensive testing we left one of them in a tub of salt water for like a week and a half or something like that until the water was gone and it was nothing but crystallized salt all over the place and I was amazed at the fact that it had a lower level of chromium but then listening to your description how um the chromium that much chromium wasn't necessary because it's not tied up in carbides was just brilliant I mean I I love that so I can't take full credit for it because the really high corrosion resistance of Magna cut was an accident so I'd rather be lucky than good right so what Magna cut was designed to have was equivalent corrosion resistance to s30v and s35vn right you know popular Steels like okay we'll just match that corrosion resistance but the toughness will be better right and so that'll be you know the exciting thing then I tested the corrosion resistance and it was way better and I'm like oh like what what happened and then then I realized uh this this effect you know of eliminating the chromium carbides because when you form a carbide it steals the chromium from that region so you know there's a carbide that forms and it's got to get the chromium from somewhere and you get these localized regions with reduced chromium and so the corrosion starts there and so when you you make the microstructure without those carbides then even though you have the same chromium in solution to form the Chrome oxide layer the corrosion resistance is better boom now also going back to your origin and you talked about your dad and his experience making Damascus he was recently inducted yeah the blade Cutlery Hall of Fame which is a huge honor so I believe the number was 71 people are in it now which includes the dead ones right uh as the probably the most prestigious you know group to be in you know there's no other competing Hall of Fame you know none that has any notoriety right uh so we were so excited for him because you know he's been at this for a long time you know it's his whole life his whole passion and so it was just very emotional to go to that ceremony and he's able to you know be recognized by his peers and so it was just awesome you know and to me I feel happy for him obviously I feel proud of him like I had something to do with it you know even though he he has his own career in his own path uh but that's one nice thing is that I have been able to do my own thing within the same brightness and I'm sure like and you're humble but I'm sure he's proud of you and oh yeah yeah you've indelibly left on the cutlery Community I mean it's it's undeniable um so you talked about the first book that you wrote engineering that is going to be coming out soon is that right the story of knife still came out about a month ago okay so I tried to get it out just in time for blade show Anna so knife engineering is a book mostly for knife makers some for knife enthusiasts and want to learn about steel so you know it talks about this the difference deals how they compare their microstructures how to heat treat them and then how to optimize edge geometry for different tasks the story of knife steel is completely different it's about the history of knife steel so both the metallurgists and the knife makers and the knife companies so you know their metal are just that design the Steels there's the knife makers that first introduce them you know why did they choose those deals how did they heat treat them how did Heat Treating evolve how did steel selection evolve it's all in there and this is not just a boring recitation of dates or effects like it I tried to get as many first-hand accounts as possible so you know like when Bo Randall chooses o1 knife steel you know he's like one of the early Custom Knife makers why did he pick that uh you can read in his words you know how he picked that so I I try to make it a little less technical than knife engineering even though knife engineering is also written for a general audience you know if you don't need the technical background it's not in the story of knife steam right but the stories are amazing you know like how did Bill Moran develop a redevelop Damascus deal and you know why did he want to do that Bob Loveless at the same time was a stalker mobile maker and he introduced 154 CM which was the new hot super steel oh yeah so it's like the the new space age you know science Steel versus the old school Damascus legendary method and so they would battle like you know what is the best approach what's the best deal and so we got it all in the story of knife steel that's awesome so where is that available working people you can just get that on Amazon also my website has a link to a PDF F version so if you're in a country outside of the United States or Europe it'll be tough to buy a physical copy so go get a PDF or if you just like reading on your iPad you know so nice absolutely so they can find that on knife steelnerds.com that is awesome well Laren thank you so much you're an absolute wealth of knowledge and thank you for stopping into this oh yeah well you know we came for a family vacation so number one on the list Smokey Mountain Knife Works the number two Dollywood yeah of course you gotta you gotta visit Dollywood absolutely that is fantastic so uh anything you got in the works anything that we can tease at maybe not mention any details but uh we got some stuff that we can look forward to on the horizon well I am working with buck knives on on a special model it's a modification of earlier pocket knives that they make so a little bit of modernization with their old school style and so I'll be coming out with that along with them in a couple months I hope uh and we will be working on more Steel bills in the future but one of the biggest complaints about Magna cut was just what a sudden release it was and they're really still catching up with Magna Cuts so whatever new Steels we come out with we want it to be a little bit slower so they have time to to catch up yeah there are more things in the works but you know I can't reveal them all so absolutely Laren thank you again brother I appreciate it and uh folks if you've got any questions for Laren put them in the comments down below we can forward them on to him I'm sure he's going to be watching the comments on this video as well so if you've got any questions for him let him know and remember as always here at Smoky Mountain Knife Works if it cuts like Magna cut then we carry it thank you [Music]

Channel: Smoky Mountain Knife Works

Views: 9,875

Keywords: SMKW, Smoky Mountain Knife Works, Knife, Knives, CRKT, BLADE HQ, KNIFE CENTER, BEST DAMN EDC, BUSHCRAFT, DIY, BEST TOOLS, TOOLS, BLADE, SHARP, SHARPENING, KNIFE MAKING, FORGING, BLADE SPORTS, BALISONG, BENCHMADE, SPYDERCO, CASE, BUCK, HOGUE, GERBER, KA-BAR, KERSHAW, MICROTECH, VICTORINOX, ZERO TOLERANCE, ARTISIAN CUTLERY, CIVIVI, COLD STEEL KNIVES, PIGEON FORGE, GEAR, EQUIPMENT, new knives, show, blade show, 2023, zac in the wild, ben banter, shot show, disassembly, top knives, folders, new, new knife

Id: pxSTJasRIlE

Length: 16min 52sec (1012 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 07 2023