McDonalds Monopoly Game Scam Exposed- McMillions

somebody asked you 10 years ago what would revolution today look like to you you would have deep racial divisions media split down the middle false information narratives rioting looting protests and unwillingness of authorities to either deal with them or an inability to deal with them we have some or all of those things going on i think we have to talk about mcdonald's first what really happened we got a call from an informant and says mcdonald's monopoly games are corrupted there's a guy named uncle jerry who's arranging for winners and stealing pieces a lot of just nose to the grindstone investigative work we went up on a wire tap tied it all together you were member of the swat at the 1993 branch davidian siege in waco texas and you were there for 51 days what do you think they need to do to recover from this and gain the credibility again like a business it's critical to have a good reputation i hope we can recover from it do you still follow the news of what's going on or no you know certain things are stressful to watch some of the footage of the rioting and looting hits close to home and i was a swat guy i love this could george floyd's event have been prevented i think with a lot of these cops who really go bad it was always it was always something there a lot of these guys cops are not worried about somebody hold them accountable so the question is how did we get here how did we get to where every small town police department has fancy tactical stuff they fuel the narrative of defunding the police [Music] so today my guess is chris graham let me let me kind of set this up so you know how this thing works out so imagine you wake up you go to college you get out of college you become an accountant and you've taken the safe route and then all of a sudden an event happens in your life that you decide to go from being an accountant to an fbi agent and then you do that for 26 years and then you become a swat and then you work undercover you do all these other crazy projects we'll talk about and then one day you're a supervisor in jacksonville working as an fbi agent for white collar crimes and you get a call an informant calls in and says hey i think you guys got to look into what's going on with mcdonald's and they say what do you mean there's this guy named jerry jacobson who apparently has taken 24 million dollars swindled 24 million dollars over a 24 year period with the old mcdonald's monopoly game and that leads to a six six episode series on hbo called make millions and today we're talking to the main character named chris graham that's going to unpack this for us and i don't know if he's going to inspire some of you guys to want to be fbi agents or uh some of you guys may never go back to mcdonald's but we're going to find out the story here so chris thank you so much for being a guest on valuetainment awesome thanks honored to be here thrilled so so first of all why from accounting to fbi i mean what happened there yeah you know that's a that's a great question and and i appreciate you asking it because unlike a lot of young people today when i went to college um this was in 1980 early 80s if you remember the economy sucked i mean especially coming out of the 70s and if you you needed to get a job i wasn't going to college to experience anything other than getting getting some piece of paper that would land me a job and at the time being an accountant was was a way to do it i got out very easy it seemed it seemed you know that it came naturally took the cpa passed it blah blah blah uh walked into work uh at a big eight accounting firm it was big eight back in the day and i would tell you by lunch on the first day i knew i hated it i was miserable and i needed to get out and do do something else so being whatever you know sticking with it stuck with it for three four years and at the time the fbi was was looking at and hiring a lot of accounts a lot more than usual because of the savings and loan crisis in the late 80s and i had some friends who who had kind of left joined went into the fbi and it just it intrigued me and it sort of fit you know one thing led to the other and you know i still remember first day showing up at at the academy at quantico and and just feeling you know this is it it it it fits i was right at home so um and then you know looking back now it's it's 26 years goes by fast um looking back on it now and looking at all the all the all the experiences and things and you know i'm looking at like plaques i have on the wall from this this experience that experience um you know i i am i consider myself one of the most lucky people on earth to have stumbled into that and you know now you know now can sit back and and relive some glory days yeah you know that's the greatest part about it you know the accidental there was a book that was written the first apple book that was written the story of steve jobs and steve wozniak was called the accidental millionaire and they wrote another book about zuckerberg that started facebook the accidental billionaire if you ever write a book you should title it the accidental fbi agent yeah well you know and the other thing i mean frankly growing up around dc which i did government employees didn't have a great reputation so going that direction was was completely against my parents wishes and and some others so but you're right accidental just just happened to happen to be lucky and watch watch the bank robbery happen once and that's that's all it took i i don't think a lot's changed since the time you were growing up to now with comey and mccabe and what's going on today you know how fbi agents are seen uh i don't think fbi agents have the kind of trust and credibility they had a long time ago it's a very weird time right now with fbi agents it's it's a damn shame and we'll come back to mcdonald's because you know or mcmillan's i want to talk about that but i'm glad you asked about you know about uh the image and then and now and like like any business the fbi is a brand and an image and we when i started and throughout my career we relied on that image to get access to get somebody to talk to you to knock on a door and you're standing there in a suit and you people are going to tell you things because they believe rightly or wrongly they believe in the the professionalism of the agency the trust the the things like that and and we got it was critical we couldn't do the job otherwise this and and you know i'm not gonna i'm not gonna dive into you know who's right who's wrong comey mccabe all that jazz it's it's it's a it's a damn shame it has tarnished the reputation and the brand that's going to take i you know it's going to take years to overcome it and you know well i will i will kind of dive into it a little bit every time the the bureau has had a a significant national embarrassment or a problem like this not every time but but most of them if you go back and look most often it has happened when higher-ups at headquarters who are in in the ivory tower of headquarters and believe they still can work cases and believe that they're smarter than everybody else and maybe maybe they are but you know smart is only part of the part of the equation to get get a case done every one of those or almost every one of those has been the result of headquarters taking over control and trying to run a case and that's you know that's what went on with with with co with not so much [ __ ] while comey was the director but mccabe strock and all that and you know plenty of plenty of agents have a lot more intimate knowledge about that than i do but that's the that's kind of the big thing and and you know the reputation like i said it's like a business it's critical to have a good reputation i hope we can recover from it so i hope so that's my two cents i hope so as well because yesterday just yesterday and i know this is a new former cia officer charged with spying for china cia that's yesterday and then 38 minutes ago former fbi attorney pleads guilty and durham probe i don't know if you just saw this yeah came out right now the justice bomber unusual promoter and so you know investigation links between trump campaign and russia netted its first guilty plea wednesday as former fbi attorney kevin kleinschmidt admitted to altering an email used to seek surveillance warrants against former trump campaign advisor carter page i mean this is some ugly stuff going on in these agencies what do you think they need to do to recover from this and gain the credibility again you know there's no magic bullet i mean it's just it's it's it's stay the hell out of stay the hell out of national scandals highlight the good work the great i mean that's what we try to do with millions and you know i know we'll keep coming back to that but i i think one of the one of the focuses of mcmillian's was to highlight a case that was a success and and and that the agents involved weren't you know weren't egotistical [ __ ] and and and things work the way they should that's what it's going to take it's going to take dozens and dozens of those cases going back to the fbi attorney though let me just i'll kind of defend when you hear fbi attorney that's usually a career attorney who's come in as a as a civilian general i don't know this but my mom 95 sure it's not an agent so the agent ranks you know that's that's your career that's all you do you don't you know you don't move in and out you don't join a law firm you that that's what you do so but you're right i mean the these the these the case the cia case yesterday this one today it's almost it's almost every you know every week we have one of these and um you know it's like bad cops i mean you know you got nine i i you know i heard you say on one of your you know your recent uh your recent talks that you know the bad cops are one percent 99 or are good people well that one percent impacts dramatically the other 99 percent who are trying to do and and generally do the right thing so okay so you know it's crazy you're saying that you know when you're talking about the you know the good agents on what they're doing i remember a long time ago a friend of mine he and i met when i got out of the military he went and became a cop and he says pat i got to tell you this badge and this gun that i carry and i walk into a restaurant changes me it changes people i said what do you mean because i saw him went from being a nice guy got along with everybody and then he started snapping in restaurants started losing his cool all the time like what is wrong with this guy and eventually he lost his job he lost his badge they took everything away from him i said what happened here he said it does something to you the badge and the gun does something to you so you know i i i hope there is a resolution to do something because i do think there is a need for these organizations out there to do what they're doing i just don't think there's any need for manipulation which is what's happened a little bit lately so so so chris here's your resume you you were a you were member of the swap swat at the 1993 branch davidian siege in waco texas which we talked about gary nestor we had it on you were there for 51 days you've been to uh deployed to egypt and later chosen to open uh the first i believe fbi office in milan italy handling fbi fba operations there for three years which i'm sure you had a good time in italy you conducted dozens of interviews with detained al qaeda and taliban leaders and operatives which maybe we'll get to that here in a minute but out of all these crazy things you've done i think we have to talk about mcdonald's first for whatever reason that one's getting the most attention so so this phone call comes in from the informant to kind of walk us through what really happened was it mcdonald's i heard it was really a marketing agency and mcdonald had no clue what was going on it was more on this and walk us through with what happened there yeah so so you're right and and ultimately it wasn't an agency a marketing agency but you know we didn't know that at the time nor do we know nor nor do we know the name of the person who who was doing this crime so you gotta let's just kind of put it in perspective here i've got a squad of of 10 12 agents and working high priority white collar stuff which is police corruption and and health care fraud which was a big big big problem back then we got a call from an informant to one of the guys on my squad and says guess what mcdonald's monopoly games are corrupted there's a guy named uncle jerry who's arranging for winners and stealing the pieces and has been going on forever so easy enough to say all right what's this guy's motive i mean what's you know this is kind of ridiculous how could how can mcdonald's let this happen but it's to me it's kind of one of these things that if it's true you can't ignore it you you have to make it maybe a remote chance but i've got to run this down so we start we start getting some basic information some names of some winners it all checks out the informant gave us a couple of names of winners turns out these winners we were able to associate them in terms of addresses and friends and relatives that's right away now statistically it's impossible it's starting to check out a lot of just and you know we can we can talk about you know traditional police work but a lot of or our investigative work a lot of just knows to the grindstone investigative work that went on for a couple of months looking at phone records making the connections doing the charts et cetera we came to a point where we had to make a decision to contact mcdonald's and bring that and bring them in not knowing a whole lot of details not knowing if mcdonald's is involved if somebody on their staff's involved etc the reason we had to bring them in the main reason there was not a lot of reasons but we needed to get you know we needed to get lists of winners we needed their cooperation and ultimately we wanted to go up on a wiretap a title through wiretap well if you think about it the games are historical they're past so somebody's won they've claimed their prize and it's over there's nothing there's nothing going on anymore by that time we had we had made some connections through phone records between winners between what i call middlemen and a main guy named jerry jacobson who you know you mentioned earlier he was the the mastermind behind this he didn't work for mcdonald's he worked for a company called simon marketing but again we still really know the the connections between between him and mcdonald's folks but back to my point so we've got to prove up this case currently historical records are great but they're not gonna they're not gonna get us there per se it's going to take it's going to take forever we want mcdonald's to run the game again but for them to run it you know why is the fbi telling you hey we need you to run this game and we need to be talking to you when you're running the game in the context of that they know there's a problem the games have been compromised so if you're you know if you're a risk management person or an executive at mcdonald's you are now confronted with what i you know i think it's a i think it's a horrible decision it's like the least what's the least worst answer do we tell the fbi you know no way take a hike we can't we can't stomach this risk knowing that the case is probably not going to go away we may run with it anyway and mcdonald's gets gets named as they're not cooperating or we cooperate and we get in bed with them and we got to live with the consequences and they did the latter thankfully and and to their credit because they paid you know they paid the consequences later on with public relations with lawsuits etc but we couldn't have done this without mcdonald's um i i you know i said in the show i think we expected an immediate answer we brought him down we brought him down to jacksonville we had him in the in the conference room all the executives and we said hey here's the case you know here's all the stuff we got we need to run the game again and we thought well of course they're going to say yeah why why wouldn't they we're the fbi you know our reputation was still pretty good back then they're going to they're going to say yes well they were kind of like well we got a we're going to talk about this and off they went they got on planes and went back and we were a little perplexed now i see you know working in the corporate world i see exact that was a that was a massive decision that went all the way up to their ceo who again i think made the right decision we went up on a wiretap recorded incredible phone calls tied it all together we we did some undercover work which i'll get into in a minute but we were even able to tell mcdonald's before the the last winner the winner that claimed it during the you know during the game during the game they were running knowing it was compromised we were able to tell mcdonald's you're going to get a call from a guy named brown in texas who's going to claim to be the winner a couple days before he did we knew that because we were listening on phone calls and we we heard we heard the passage we actually were able to surveil the passage of the stolen piece that's how it you know that's jacobson was and i won't get into all the details but you know jacobson had figured out a way to essentially shoplift the winning piece in route where he was going to theoretically place it into circulation and he would he would switch them out put a you know a shitty one for french fries and where the winning one was supposed to be hang on to the winning one and then take uh recruit one of his middlemen to find a winner who could be trusted and that the piece would get get passed we were actually able to surveil based on what we learned on the wiretap surveil jacobson meet with dwight baker who's who's named in this thing in the parking lot and our pilot saw him pass the envelope uh in the parking lot and then ultimately we know baker passed it on to another guy who passed it on to the winner so big success a lot of fun um you know cases don't always we had a lot of laughs with this case um and you can because nobody's dying and and and we had some fun with it you know we had a we had we ran an undercover operation as part of it which we call the the reunion of past winners so we want to get winners from hey pat you know you won you won back in 1999 and you know we want to get you to tell your story again because and because it's such a great story and we're going to host a reunion of winners in vegas it's all going to be paid for we're going to have you in a big conference room brilliant you're going to tell your story but in order to do that we're going to record you right now it's going to go on a big screen and tell us again how you how you want so we did a lot of that we got a lot of these people locked into lies about how they won um we created a production company was called shamrock productions and and the byline was because you're just lucky which if you it's a little bit of a little bit of tongue-in-cheek humor there but but that was the kind of you know that was kind of thing and then what happened so big takedown national takedown john ashcroft uh presented in front of national media um it was the story all over the weekend uh actually was uh you know august i think 21st 2001 was still kind of a story they were rolling up indictments and and ultimately you know ultimately a lot more indictments but we all know what happened on september 11th and that you know that freaking change that changed everything and the the the dozens of agents who were working this went down to the two guys who had to carry it through in the prosecutor and no one no one heard the story until two three years ago i got contacted by james hernandez who was one of the executive producers of mcmillian's and he had he had kind of stumbled on the story and started doing some research and felt it was a great great story i thought personally i was glad to talk about it because it was always it was always one of these stories you would tell at a cocktail hour or something you know somebody's usually fbi they're like hey tell me a great fbi story and you need something to kind of prompt it and i i would always go to mcdonald's i would say you know well you know have you had a mcdonald's lately yeah of course all right let me tell you about that so i i was always telling the story but no one believed it they would ah come on that's [ __ ] you're you know you're exaggerating chris to have james and those guys dig into it was you know was really fortuitous i thought you know i thought they'll get an hour-long documentary true crime thing on it they they did a phenomenal job digging in finding a lot more information victims personal stories other subjects that we you know we just it wasn't really the craziest part they found that you didn't know about you're like holy [ __ ] what was this all about was the craziest thing that you found out through them not you oh yeah that's that boy that's a great that's a great question there there's about four or five things um they you know if you watch it there was a so so there was there was there was a lot of jerry's running around so we had two uncles we they kept talking about uncle jerry and there was a guy named jerry colombo you know big heavy italian guy who was married to robin colombo and if you watch the if you watch millions she is she's a character i mean she's just got to see i can't even describe her um she was married to him he claimed to be a big oc guy claimed he was connected with some families and everybody assumed well that's uncle jerry that's uncle j well we we eventually figured out that there was jerry colombo and then it was jerry jacobson and they met through what we believe you know some some organized crime connection jerry columbo died um and in a car crash and there's some suspicious circumstances about that but they they and when i say i mean james and brian are producers and their their research team they got in and they they dug up archive video about how jerry columbo was running a a strip joint up in south carolina that he was all over the news that it had been it was they're going to close it down he was he was going around around with city council and he kind of he renamed it as a church so it was the church of the the fuzzy bunny or something like that and he was able to stay open that was that was just these like little things that you know you know what frankly pat i'm glad we didn't stumble on that stuff during the case because it would have diverted us we would we've been spending too much time well someone's got to go hey somebody's got to drive up to south carolina and check out this fuzzy bunny thing and we'd have never got to the finish line yeah you wouldn't have it would have been a distraction yeah uh uh depending on the quality of the bunnies they had but going back to it so so you're so you're seeing these stories and is is it true that jerry the main guy ended up being in the mcdonald commercial was he in the commercial himself i i saw something with one of the jerry's being in a commercial in a video it was it was the big jerry it was columbo it was i forget where it was that was you know that was another thing that they that they dug up now jacobson jacobson the main guy kept a low profile and if you if you you know if you watch it or i'm sure that the listeners watched it remember he jacobson was a former cop from south florida and you know went out on some on some quote unquote disability moved up to atlanta but he kept he kept a pretty low profile up there um the other one that jerry columbo was all over you know he was all over the media now where is the connection with a mormon i saw i heard something about the mormon connection to this what does that have to do with mcdonald's so so dwight baker who was one of jacobson's main we call them middleman or recruiters so when you put this thing in we would put it on a chart and in the middle you've got jacobson and you have lines going out to the the recruiters and the middlemen because jacobson never he never dealt directly with the winners obviously that's you know if you're a drug dealer you're the main kingpin you don't want to deal with a guy on the street you want people in the middle to distance yourself so baker was one of the one of the most the most recent let's say at the time recruiters middlemen happened to live very close to you know to to uh jacobson in south carolina uh they were you know of all places fair play that was the name of the that was the name of the town they lived in i mean you couldn't make this [ __ ] up i mean we just kept stumbling on how how how in the world what's the chances of the the main subjects of this scam that's all about honesty and integrity living in a town called fair play south carolina but um but i digress but yeah but he was he was a an elder in the mormon church and uh i i think was you know ended up i'm not sure you know you would get excommunicated or or something he's you know he's in the um you know he's in the mcmillions film you know i will say you know this is i i said when i got on this i said i'm gonna you know i'm gonna be as candid and give my opinions uh freely um there's a couple guys in that dwight baker is one and the other one george chandler who was his i think his adopted son he was a winner george chandler was a winner and dwight baker gave him the million dollar piece neither of these guys needed the money first of all if you listen to them they they are in this and it's they really are working hard to make themselves seem um you know sympathetic honorable um not quite innocent but pretty damn close to it especially especially chandler i i you know i got no room for that um you know these guys knew what they were doing if nothing else they might not have known and this go this goes through for any of the winners they might not have known that there was a jerry jacobson up there who was stealing the pieces and this is who he works and blah blah blah most of them got stories that hey i got a friend who got this piece and he's going through a bad divorce and the wife can't know about it so you take it you claim it and you know you get to you get a hundred thousand and you know give us the rest of mine well okay that's you know you're screwing somebody in that deal you're screwing the ex-wife or somebody so so this bit about you know all this was all you know this was all on the up and up i'm not buying it the there was a woman and she's in the um she's in the series gloria brown uh african-american lady in jacksonville was friends of robin colombo she was a million-dollar winner she never got she got a fraction of the money they they made her made her pay a bunch up front blah blah blah she got charged well she didn't have the funds to hire a big high-priced lawyer she had the public defender they pled they pled her out clutter like 50 we had 52 some odd people in in the in the ultimate indictment most of them pled guilty all but about six um george chandler did not and went to trial with an expensive attorney because he could afford it i i just to me there's some inequity there and you know i think you know if people are watching it it goes to your point you know you can't you can't paint everybody with the same brush there were different you know if anybody was close to innocent in this it was people you know the gloria browns of the of the world so anyway that's my you guys can do you think they're ever going to bring that game back because i can tell you for me as a marketing campaign it was genius because i remember as a kid you know i worked at burger king so it was kind of like well you know i'm about to go to mcdonald's because i'm going to get these pieces and they were sitting on our desk and we're collecting them it's like what do you have what do you have and it was always funny because you would bring your pieces to school and there was always one piece everybody was missing there was always one piece everybody was boardwalker park place one of them was always no one can get it yeah we're missing those two and hey what if we team up together and what if we come together now we realize all those young 12 13 14 year old kids dreams were crushed by this jerry guy uh we couldn't find those pieces but give us one last crazy story until we get to the next one here what's another crazy findings you saw uh that happened with this that will shock the hell out of the rest of us yeah i think you know they found they found i don't know if it shocks the hell out of us um well no i'll give you two of them so if you watch it so doug matthews who everybody loves he was the agent who worked on it and he he's still on the job um he's on film and and he's quite the character um gets away with some f-bombs and and all kinds of other stuff and uh i knew he was you know i knew he was a character i i didn't know he was quite the uh the the on-screen ham as as he's turned out to be so again uh that was kind of cool but now and then you know they they the producers found uh jacobson's son who's estranged interviewed him he had nothing good to say about him um things like that they you know they they they took a case and made a story out of it and that that was cool that was going and there's a corporate side to it too you know so you've got you know i've seen some interviews with the producers uh i don't think mcdo i think mcdonald's had another hard decision about whether to participate in the filming and production of mcmillian's again here's this here's this nightmare of theirs from 20 years ago hopefully it's all been forgotten and now it's come back and holy [ __ ] hbo is going to do a story on it wow that's so but the biggest part for me to forgive them which in my mind i was kind of like well what is wrong with mcdonald's and then it was it wasn't us we hired a marketing agency we have no clue what's going on over there then as a consumer i'm like you know what you can't because as somebody that runs a company i've hired marketing agencies and one time i hired this one marketing agency for instagram made all these promises six years ago and i'll never forget it was myself and a local pastor in la we were pretty much using the same guy and they had this machine that they were doing that was liking pictures and all of a sudden the hashtags they had that was liking pictures here's a pastor getting uh criticism for liking pictures of nude women and men and weird random things like wait a minute we have no idea what's going on we heard a marketing agency so it was a very funny yet weird situation because you still have to explain yourself so for me on the macdonald said i'm like listen if you hired a marketing agency i can see how something like something like this could happen it was a brilliant marketing campaign oh that's for sure oh yeah they their revenue their revenue would skyrocket when they ran these games um they're upfront about that it was it was a game changer quote a quote a game changer on the revenue side chris what's the craziest thing you've done in your lot of different things if you were to say you know i mean interviewing dozens of detained al qaeda and taliban leaders what was that like you know and and i won't i won't get into you know names and where but here's what i would say and i thought about this are they names that we should know yes yeah really okay yeah in place in places you'd know too okay but one of the things and i thought about this listening to gravano and i thought about this too in terms of interviewing some you know some like al qaeda leader types and that is had these guys wound up working for um you know leg mason or or a big firm or a company or a t they would have rose to the top in those organizations as as leaders because they're that's how they are they're brilliant engaging smart people who just have a natural tendency to lead whether it's you know whether you're in al qaeda or you're in la costa nostra or you know on the good side of the law the ceo of company that that was always you know i i came away a few times from interviews like that thinking you know wow that guy you know it's a damn shame it's a damn shame he wound up you know wound up where he's at now because you know a couple of couple of good breaks he very easily would have you know could have could have led you know saudi aramco or something it's i think yeah what do you mean by that can give me give me give me okay go to the person that you think about without giving a name and what was impressive about him when he sat down with him i think just not not just not just his history but the fortitude in terms of overcoming hardships like bad bad hardships bad um treatment um keeping you know maybe maybe keeping some degree of sanity um engaging very you know very astute to um where we were coming from questions um funny sense of humor at times which you know it counts for a lot um yeah no i i just you could just tell and and i think i think you noticed this with like a gravano or these guys guys who who who rose to the top of an organization that a lot of people get killed along the way rising to the top if you're stupid bad things happen to you or you get you get ostracized same thing um so when you interview these guys were you on their turf or were they on our turf they're on our turf they're on our turf when you interview them yeah and is this after they got caught or is this nothing's happened yet and they were willing to sit down with you you know i've i've i've done both okay i i've had the i've had the you know the the pleasure to do the pleasure that the whatever you want to call it the the opportunity to do a little little of both little both um you know and yeah no [ __ ] there's there's others out there who are you know maniacal savages and you know and they're you know they're where there are but um yeah it's interesting very interesting being where you are right now watching do you still follow the news of what's going on or no are you following everything or not really not at the pace you did before i probably follow it i'm selective about it so like what you know what kind of you know i'm i'm conscious and cautious enough about what i watch to know that you know certain things are stressful to watch and taxing and don't don't add to learning now watch what do you not watch you know i i mean i i think so i work in corporate security now for for a mall company so so some of the some of the footage of of the rioting and looting hits close to home it really does and you know we've we've lived that and can continue to live it so and and by watching i'm talking about not just tv but social media so you know i think some of you know some some video footage where you're getting part of the story or it's being spun a certain way um i i i'm cautious about about that and and you know i think you brought it up on in one of your earlier talks you got to consider who's you know the motives of people behind this so i i think you you said you know is isn't doesn't it make sense that china benefits or russia benefits or the middle east benefits from the these scenes of chaos in the street i you know hey it's going on and that's unfortunate but riling riling people up in an emotional state by watching it on on a screen hundreds of miles away doesn't really doesn't really help the problem it's certain and i'm hey i'm selfish i'm always looking out for you know my well-being and it doesn't do me any good to to walk out of the room with high blood pressure because of something i you know something i saw um makes sense as an fbi agent yourself what are your thoughts about this whole defunding police situation where you know you're getting commissioners that are resigning and you're getting patrick j lynch president of the new york union is coming out and saying for the first time ever we're coming up publicly and saying we're supporting trump and it's it's a very weird dynamic where you know some are being criticized some you know seattle's just deciding to fully defund and go completely different direction what do you think about what's going on there yeah no it's it's it's incredibly complicated obviously obviously blanket calls to defund the police are a reactionary i mean do we want do we want new york to return to the way it was in 1974 no i don't you know i don't think anybody anybody would agree with that um you know i think changes have changes probably need to be made um here's where i'll go with this and i i made some notes to talk about it one of the things let me kind of go back and and i'll tell you i'll tell you kind of the where i'm going with this so 2015 we had the tragic shooting in san bernardino uh at the uh it was like a community center guy was you know guy was a terrorist and you know we you know they had been him and his wife had been back and forth to pakistan a few times terrible shooting right fifty you know 14 15 people killed the worst of the worst i'm watching it on the news it's it's over right they they caught the guy he's down on the highway somewhere the guys who or the police officers who who stopped him were you know patrol guys highway patrol guys they end up in a shootout with them the footage on tv is dozens if not hundreds of fully armed swat guys walking up and down the streets of san bernardino with long guns with all the equipment with all the fancy gear with the armored trucks all that [ __ ] so keep that in mind i ran i ran a i ran a jttf a joint terrorism task force uh for you know last last 50 whatever 10 12 years of my career and the thing that's missing in in that image of the san bernardino is you've got all these guys and millions of dollars of equipment thrown at something that having them all out there after the fact is it doesn't prevent it what would what would have prevented it you got to ask yourself how would where could we have spent those resources to potentially prevent that and it's not you know it's not and i was a swat guy i love this [ __ ] i mean i you know i lived it i when i was into the scene you know hey man run shoot jump work out what get paid for it man that's that's a great deal get fancy equipment you know it's almost like in in the fbi it's like in high school right there's you know extracurricular activities and then there's the guys on the football team and they're the swat guys right so you know you got a little bit of that so i was there i get it i understand i understand the need but but looking at it from a law enforcement executive or manager all those millions of dollars for sexy and fancy equipment wouldn't have been better to go into the salaries and and and of analysts and and software and you know the intelligence work paying informants all that stuff that is not sexy it's boring as hell many times it doesn't pan out to anything you may prevent things you don't even know you've prevented them and i know i i know we've done that just just by having a presence interviewing somebody through some intelligence so this goes to my point the the broader point which we see today and that's this you hear this concept it's it's kind of come into vogue lately um i'd like to think i you know i was one of the pioneers of thinking about it not that i not that i raised my voice about it but this this militarization of police and you know and and you see it now where you've got um it it drives a wedge in in a community where you have what looks to be an occupying military force now no doubt about it you need to have you need to have swat teams here and there in big cities deal with an active shooter etcetera but and and so the question is how did we get here how did how did how did we get to where every small town police department has an armored vehicle and a team with long guns and maybe a helicopter and all kinds of other again you know fancy tactical stuff and and i can't take credit for this is coming from a guy named bradley balco who wrote a book it's called you know the rise of the warrior cop and he points to the the funding two to two sources military surplus stuff under a program was a 1033 program where local state local law enforcement could go to the military and say hey we need an armored vehicle you got any extra ones well yeah we just brought a whole bunch of them back from iraq so take it take it wrong with it so now they got an armored vehicle they might get other stuff and then post 911 you know dhs funding grants to have this kind of preparation and if you're you you're given the choice you're running a small police department and you've got you know you might be a sheriff or something and you've got voters you're trying to impress city council you're going to spend that money on a fancy team that can repel out of helicopters even though you're never going to use them or i'm going to hire you know i'm going to hire three kids with phds in computer science and analytical intelligence to grind through records or i'm going to hire you know i'm going to hire investigators or agents who are adept at work in informants who might have the language who who can get into these groups that's where i think we've got to we've got we've reached that point and you know and to my the broader point i think that those images of fully armed police departments have have been counting they've been counterproductive they fueled the they fueled the narrative of defrock defunding the police so by the way i like which a lot of people are not going to agree with me but that's it's fine i i understand that's the whole reason why we're having a conversation i'm reading a book right now called the man who saw the market how jim simmons launched the quant revolution the guy's worth about 24 billion dollars and uh when he came out he started a company and hired i think was working for some university and he ended up hiring the best mathematicians in america and eventually in the world and he brought him together and eventually he started a firm and he brought all these mathematicians to study the market to see what happens with the trends then he figured out a formula i think he ended up averaging 65 return over a 20-year period which is insane to be thinking about that kind of a money and no wonder he's worth 24 billion dollars today but he hired mathematicians a lot of that today's predictive analytics so what you're saying today makes a lot of sense on making those investments to see if that can be prevented here's a follow-up question to you could george floyd's event have been prevented could that have been prevented yeah i mean i think the i think the obvious you know the other you know i'm just i'm just kind of parroting you know things i've heard and read throw maybe a little common sense on it you know you've got you've got an officer who has a history of discipline problems you you i've heard people say and even good friends of mine who you know we've talked and they're on the other side of this issue and they say there's there's a thin blue line there's a blue line of silence so you see maybe a little bit of that with the these these other officers putting up with with george that's what says not floyd what's the the officer's name i forget um derek are you talking about there yeah there so so they put up with him they know he's they know he's a hot head they know he's a problem and and they you know they choose hey we got to go we got to get along we're all part of the same team here and we're not going to say or do anything because that's just not what we do that you know how do you break that well and i'm not i'm not holding the fbi up as an example but within the fbi if you are aware of misconduct by somebody or you know they they violated some policy procedure you know their their their violated computer pro thing or their or their acting out there's something there's something wrong and it it blows up into an issue a disciplinary issue or something like that and and and they they the investigation the internal determines that hey chris graham you know you knew you know you knew that pat had a habit of of of really yelling at people and and and he hit this person once on the back of the head during an interview you were there you know that's against policy you saw you didn't do anything guess what you're in just as much you're not maybe not in as much trouble but now your career is on the line and i think some police departments have variations of that but but you've got to make it so and you you take the personality out of it so if if you know i can say to you know to you all right hey hey pat you know i had to tell them what i saw it's not it's not personal i don't have you know but i gotta look out for my career i can't you know i got a family to feed i think if you do that right i know but you got to take it out of that you've got to make it hey i didn't want to be it i didn't want to you call me a snitch i didn't the agency the same agency we both work for the same agency that pays our salary put these requirements on me just like they put them on you saw something i expect you to to say about me yeah how much sensitivity is that you know how you see these movies and in the movies they show a bad cop two bad cops and a good cop the two bad cops go and rob a guy of cocaine and 200 000 of cash and they decide to split it and the third guy doesn't want to take it he's like dude i don't want to have anything to do with this you almost see the other two guys doing whatever they can to put this guy out and they're worried about him being a snitch and his career is pretty much done right so there's the pressure of almost not accepting now this is hollywood's i'm not in the world to know what happens it almost seems like there's pressure for the good cop to also participate in the bad behavior because if you don't it can end up you know turning on you and you got a reputation coming back so i guess what i'm trying to ask here is so we have derek shogun right the guy who put the knee on george's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds what what do you do to see these trends and say listen because i'm telling you when i'm telling you this friend of mine was the calmest guy we'd go to nightclubs he would talk to girls like this hey what's your name so this and he was so smooth he was so chill he was the calmest guy i knew when he became a cop then all of a sudden he went more like this and like this and one day we went out started telling people off hey [ __ ] maybe i'm like i've never seen you talk like this before what happened to you and i said i sat him down one day i said the son will tell you something i'm a little concerned about she said what's why is that i said i don't know what the hell is going on with you but you acting like the world owes you something and he got emotional he said pat i'm telling you this badge and this uh gun is doing something now this is coming from a guy that was in the military for three years hunter for airborne division had a saw weapon had an m16 i mean i'm telling you from a guy who was in the military and but i saw it did something to some people how do you control and be able to read somebody about to go the direction of being a bad cop bad agent how do you catch that what are some signs to look for well i got to ask you you know you've known this guy you said you knew him before he was a cop oh yeah nicest guy in the world nothing there was nothing in his personality nothing nothing he was a sweetheart from a loving family mom and dad never got a divorce my parents got a divorce so you could have seen my temper and said well it comes from his this this but nothing was raised in america went to a nice school had her brother they got along he was with the same girl since he was 16 years old nothing happened with them he loved her she loved him david what the streak of how in five years boom like this i couldn't understand it i i'd like to i'd hopefully like to think he's just the anomaly and that you know i mean but what you're saying so so based on what you're saying you're making me think that a lot of the part of having a derek chauvin is in the hiring process and the background should present where you're going oh you weed them out in the hiring process you know a lot of these a lot of these they do site tests things like that i think some of these background you know the background stuff usually pretty cursory right i mean they're not getting into hey pat you know you knew this guy you knew this guy in middle school um you know did he ever did he ever get in a fight you know did what do you remember about that did that that kind of that kind of background fair enough so what questions give you red flags so ask me the questions what are some of the questions that would give you a good scoring on your entire predictive analytics why this is this guy we can't hire this guy this guy's a little bit of a loose cannon you know you i've watched some of your interviews and you you should probably should have been an fbi agent because you do a great job of of two things right you you have your facts but you listen and often it's an open-ended question so i mean i i can't off the top of my head come up with like specific background questions but if i'm you know i'm i'm doing a background on derek chauvin he's getting he's ready to get into the police department and you're you know you're his best friend you've known you've known him for forever you went to high school to get i'm just you know i'm using this hypothetically i'm gonna ask you just talk about him tell me about him and you know oh oh he played you know he played linebacker um you know tell me about how he played and just try to work off of that and get you know get bits and pieces into a personality and hopefully you know hopefully something comes out not always it does i mean you your friend's a classic example i mean something must have happened on the job or or there was something late in there i think many of these you know many of these guys there was always clues it's just like you know it's it's like when somebody turns out to be a pedophile or you know or something you know somebody shoots them up people come out oh well yeah there was always something a little you know if you really press it there was something about that guy i think with a lot of these cops who who really go bad there it was always there was always something there now that said i've had a couple of i've had i have friends and the job changes there's no doubt about that that you know you work in a you know you work in a in a difficult environment where the the community does not like you and and you are a sign of bad things i mean when when you know [ __ ] i get nervous now i i get nervous when i get pulled over and i got no reason to i you know it's not you know so you're people involved in that environment it takes a toll on people and the the the it's how they deal with it and crazy is there tenure in pd and fbi and all of that all those different organizations there such a thing as a tenure or no you know most police departments i i they have some but not you know i think it varies it varies from department to department i mean i i you know i know guys who are still police officers into their you know late 50s and 60s fbi you're out the door you know you're out the door at 57 and you're no no what i'm asking is what i'm asking is like a 10-year model of you know how teachers after 10 years you know they can't get fired and you know you have to like really a 42 year old teacher has to you know make a pass at a 16 year old boy or girl to get fired is there 10 years in lmpd and in fbi well a lot of the pds remember our union so the the rank and fall patrol officers are have union protections so that's that's effectively you know the same as as tenure um so that first of all this this then this brings up the negative power of uh union and negative effects of union because for me like i look at some teachers okay you see these videos of some teachers i got terrible attitude towards kids but there's nothing you can do about them you can't fire them because they have tenure i think one of the best things that there is in business is there is no tenure if you're in a company you screw up in your 12th year you can get fired you know i'm a ceo of a good sized company if i mess up i'm fired it doesn't matter what i do i can be fired as a ceo and i think that element of not having to fear cops teachers fire you know fbi agents not having that fear of dude if i screw up i could get fired i'm locked in we're good i can go around and push people around the way it's also set up and the comp structure and the way it's set up with the protection for them i i also think um there's an element of it where for me it's kind of like nowadays you know cops are going around working with criminals and they're doing their job some cases they're doing their job and they're they're the ones constantly being held accountable rather than the other way around so there's a fear of dude i don't even want to do anything because they're going to say racism and i'm going to get arrested but i think there's also the other part where the way the format is set up with accountability a lot of these guys cops are uh you know not worried about somebody holding them accountable yeah i i don't disagree i mean i think that's one of a number of factors leadership you know the culture and leadership within a department makes makes a big difference um back to the you know back to the uh derek coven and and floyd one of the things that and i just i just happen to remember this i want to bring it up you know they worked at a nightclub together right i don't i haven't really scrubbed into that but you know floyd was floyd was doing security there uh derek was was doing off-duty police work um guys i know who are you know a good friend of mine nypd detectives washington d.c they will tell you that is a that is a venue for trouble for a law enforcement officer is those kind of nightclubs because you know first of all you're getting paid you get usually getting paid pretty good to sit outside your patrol car stand at the door there's yeah you find me you find me a club like that where there's not some illegal activity going on where there's not some drug dealing and some prostitution going on you got to look the other way and it is it is an environment that you know that that sucks people in um you know if it's a if it's an adult entertainment if you know if it's a strip joint there's you know there's young strippers around guys get tangled up in there so i i just think and you know maybe i'm wrong i just wonder you know what kind of history did those two have back you know from back at that club was there was there a beef over you know over over a drug deal was there a beef over you know some some you know some girl somebody was screwing i don't know but i i just know from watching it firsthand and plenty of friends who are cops nightclubs strip clubs those kind of places put a cop in a bad position yeah that makes sense uh final question before we wrap up chris what's your biggest concern right now with the current climate we have in america you know i here i've used this before and people people ask me hey what do you think of you know what do you think of what's going on and i say if somebody asked you and this is extreme i get it but if somebody asked you 20 years now somebody asked you 10 years ago what does revolution look like what would revolution today look like to you name five things that that would entail revolution i mean it's not like you know it's not like the the revolutionary war where they got the red coats and we're you know we're fighting it out over you know bunker hill or anything like that but name five things you would have you know deep deep racial divisions rioting looting protests false information narratives media split down the middle groups occupying zones and and an unwillingness of authorities to either deal with them or an inability to deal with them my guess is had somebody asked that if i had asked somebody that question you know 10 years ago they probably would have named a few of those things and maybe something else and i'd say well now what do we have we have those we have some some or all of those things going on it's it's it's pretty damn scary because you know revolution is a is a strong word um so i'm there there's part of me that's optimistic i mean you know there's always the things are things always seem to work out but but this this just seems it seems tough um you know i think i i've even had personally i've even had conversations with people who and and i'm not i'm not politically leaning big time one way or the other i'm i think i'm probably part of the big bell curve in the middle but i am former law enforcement and i you know i lean that way where i've had conversations that have my intent was to let's find a middle ground here let's you know we're friends we can talk through this that have i've walked away feeling feeling pretty shitty about it because they went they went they didn't go well that that to me is that's really concerning that you know that people who family members even that have you know bound by blood or been friends forever that that these conversations that they can't you know that people have conversations and people leave upset that's that's the you i just i kind of worked my way into your answer there the the answer well that's what concerns me that makes sense i mean it is uh weird times it's divisive it seems like there's two gangs but if you look at the numbers 42 percent of republicans are not going to move they're going to vote right 44 percent of democrats are not going to move they're going to vote left four percent of the green and the libertarians are going to stick to their guns that's about 90 percent it's the 10 percent that's going to elect the next president that's simple as that it's the 10 percent of america right now that's going to elect either biden and kamala or uh trump and um pence and that tell me tell me who you think that 10 is who who you know because like i'm probably in there somewhere i think i think you're probably in there based on which i don't know you well but based on what you're saying is you're probably a center-right person you're probably somebody that's center-right uh uh i'm military i'm also center-right myself but that ten percent you know you got the entrepreneurs who may be socially left but economically they're conservative okay so they're going to be kind of sitting there saying let's see what's going to be happening over here you got the uh uh you know the baby boomers who may be socially conservative but economically a little bit liberal because they need the medicare medical they need the health they need all that other stuff so they may vote for somebody that's going to take care of their health insurance so that's a big audience with baby boomers 76 million of them you have you know the folks who don't follow any politics and could care less but they'll they're willing to vote and they're just kind of going to vote quite frankly on the simplest thing like who they like more and it's not even that complicated but that 10 is going to determine our next president and that next president the next four years one is planning on taking capital gains to 15 percent which is trump and the other one is going to plan on taking taxes to a whole different level at a higher level so economically you know that's going to hurt and who that's going to benefit and uh one just said the other day to cardi b that he wants to make college free for any family making less than 125 000 of your income for their kids which that's 90 of them and uh uh i mean taxes are going to be going up the way we're going right it's such a dramatically like when bill clinton became president i voted for him i was the first president i shook hands with i'm like dude okay i mean he's a capitalist this is a yeah we human newt made it work similar to what reagan and tip o'neill made it work reagan antipolonium two irishmen would go out and hash it out and come back and come up with something and they would talk [ __ ] to each other privately and publicly but things out you know things kind of cleared up right now it's very weird it's very very weird yeah we are today so i don't know what's going to happen we will see my goal today my main outcome of this entire interview was one thing my goal was for you and i to be able to solve every single problem in the world i think we failed so i i don't think we solved every problem in the world but i think we're starting the conversation and people can start having a conversation with each other hopefully in a civil manner so uh we can get some more clarity but chris thank you so much for taking the time for being a guest over here with us how can people find you by the way what is it should we just put the link to drive it to your website or where would you like people to come and get a hold of you yeah so you know i um i have i have a sort of a website and it's it's more of a hobby fun it's called gmanresources.com you can put it up there it talks a little bit talks a little bit about me um lean more on the entertainment side what i'm you know what i'm doing and working on a couple of a couple of projects that hopefully will be uh be entertaining maybe not so much as mcmillions but worth watching it's got some stuff about my story that i i i wrote over time and wrote that more to answer you know people people ask hey what about the fbi what was it like i'm like well just read you know read read the my story part i try to make it a little entertaining and fun but that's yeah that's i'm around i'm on linkedin um we're gonna put all those links below look if if you're if you're you know subtly dropping a marketing campaign or alluding to a new documentary coming up about the church of the fuzzy bunny i'm sure there's going to be a big audience that's going to want to learn more about the church of the fuzzy bunny but if it's just other things we're going to put the link below to your site we're also going to put the link below to make millions so uh if you haven't seen it it's on hbo you can go watch that as well the six uh series of uh that documentary with mcmillians and aside from that chris thank you so much for being a guest on value team and i really enjoyed it yeah likewise patrick i enjoyed it thanks for having me look forward to talking again soon anytime take care make millions now one guy named jerry takes down 24 million dollars over 12 years with this monopoly game that mcdonald's comes out with and this 26 year fbi agent very very interesting stories to be thinking about if you enjoyed today's interview with chris there's two other interviews i want you to watch one is with joe pistone aka donnie brasco if you've seen a movie if you've never watched his interview he's the one that took down five families and he wasn't informed he was an insider for undercover for six years and the other one is an interview i did with another fbi agent mcgowan who went up and negotiated with the sinaloa cartel and his stories are crazy on a whole different side if you want to listen to this click over here if you want to listen to joe person click over here and if you've not subscribed to the channel please do so thanks for watching everybody take care [Music] bye you

Channel: Valuetainment

Views: 165,599

Keywords: valuetainment, patrick bet david, chris graham, mcmillions, mcdonalds scam, monopoly scam, chris graham fbi

Id: PgfiZVPY8JM

Length: 66min 4sec (3964 seconds)

Published: Fri Aug 28 2020