Maya Angelou discusses her memoir 'The Heart of A Woman' (1981 interview)

with me is Maya Angelou who came to Philadelphia today to speak at the Philadelphia inquirers book an author luncheon Maya Angelou lives an extraordinary life which is chronicled in her series of autobiographical books which begins with I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings her fourth autobiographical volume has just been published under the title The Heart of a woman begins in about 1957 when she is about 30 a single parent to her son guy who was born when she was 17 and unmarried she described herself at the time as a club singer with more persistence than Talent after living in a beatnik community in the west coast she moved to New York where she joined the Harlem Writers Guild became inspired by the work of Martin Luther King and eventually became the northern coordinator for split the southern Christian leadership conference her struggles as a single parent were temporarily abated by her marriage to an African Freedom Fighter with whom she traveled around the world people who you may know who figure into this autobiography include Billy Holiday Max Roach Abby link and Martin Luther King and Malcolm X Maya Angelou has since written for television served on the commission of international women's year where she was appointed by President Carter her volumes of poems include just give me a cool drink of water for I die and uh oh pray my wings are gonna fit me well and I think the most recent is and Still I Rise welcome to fresh air my Angela very much let me quote something from the opening page as you say that I had to trust life since I was young enough to believe that life loved the person who dared to live it you attribute that to the young Maya Angelou would you live or think any differently now I believe that now I think I'm still young I think that that is one of the characteristics of Youth and not having to do with chronological age but a the this youth in the spirit and as long as one keeps a youthful Spirit when it's youthful um I believe today that life loves the liver of it I think that life wants to be taken by the lapels and told I'm with you kid you've really done a lot of impulsive actions uh during your life the part anyways that's chronicled in your new book is there anything that if you had thought about it longer you wouldn't have done probably almost everything if I had thought about it longer but I they they the actions might appear to be impulsive um but I trust something inside myself um when when I find myself in a new situation and I have to trust I don't have time to think and ration out my next move I trust what the southern black people used to call my Toby which uh was a name for any lucky thing a person had a coin or a rabbit's foot or horse's shoe um that was called a Toby well it was believed that people had Toby's which were non-visible non-material so I have to trust that thing within me which is my Toby to get me out of the situation into a better condition and so after I run my brain across this the the barrier and see that I really don't have time to think it out then I trust my Toby and move on it and I'm prepared to live with the you know whatever happens Billy Holiday visited your house and I guess it was the late 1950s yeah it was real it had to be it was true before she died um and you said that well she she thought that you were very Square you were a little concerned that she might be bringing drugs with her and because if you're standing in the community in part that wasn't going to be uh well it wasn't safe standing in the community I had no standing in the community um none at all well I thought that might be part of the problem but no it was just that I didn't want drugs in my house she called me a square and she was absolutely right um I didn't but I didn't know how I would be able to say to Billie Holiday who was my you know larger than the pyramids to me uh how how could I actually say you can't shoot up or sniff up or whatever she might have wanted to do in my house without so offending her that she would curse me out and how would I deal with that and yet I knew that I wouldn't allow her to do that in my house because I was Raising a Son that was the most important thing I was raising my son and I simply wouldn't have that but I became quite nervous in anticipation or dread of her coming because I didn't know how I was going to handle it fortunately for me she uh she never did it she never did it if she did I never saw it she stayed with me for five or six days and all day long from eight o'clock in the morning nine o'clock in the morning until I'd go to my job I was singing in the nightclub and I'd drop her off at her hotel before I'd go to my job now if she used anything it was in the bathroom and I never saw it as much as you admired her and as strong as you felt about her singing she was pretty arrogant and sometimes pretty rude to you what was your strategy for for dealing with your hero who was being kind of nasty in the moment well I think I I've waited you know that West Africans have a phrase which is obviously in great use among black Americans and even more use among South Africans but but the phrase itself isn't used here but it is exercise patience exercise patience exit you know and obviously we have done that and I was doing that and I still find myself when a person starts out to be rude or starts to do something I don't agree with um quite often I will wait and see is this an impulsive move on the person's part if I say something will he or she not get my message that this is not the thing to do I I have less patience as I've become older rather than the other way around um but at that time I thought well if I just don't say anything maybe she won't continue with this rather brutal way of talking and quite often she really would starve um she asked me so for some food and I hadn't planned to cook for her and she just asked where what are we gonna have for lunch and having a chicken which of course one has always a raw chicken in the fridge so I said I would do a chicken and rice and an Arkansas gravy and she said all right chicken is all right but cook that sucker fry that sucker and she just oh so I told her that I might not be a great singer but I knew how to cook I mean not to get it mixed up and she apologized she said I didn't mean to hurt your feelings I just can't stand Blood on the bone of a chicken so each time I would speak back um I wouldn't my rejoinders were never as harsh as her statement but she understood that sort of knocking me off would be like taking a double barrel shotgun to kill a flea you know but even though I was a flea maybe compared to her I still had to stand up I really found myself envying your son during that sequence because she sang for him at night when he'd go to bed and I thought how wonderful that must be but you said he probably would have preferred to place gravel and word games and all that kitchen telling him Strange Fruit and how he reacted to what she said and well you know she's the curse a lot she cursed and the most innovative ways uh but she stopped cursing when when my son would come around she would simply stop which was unheard of for her since every other word um was a was profanity of when she wanted it but um and then sometimes she would still sort of surprise herself with a with some vulgarity while he was around and I never used profanity and she would look at him and say excuse me baby that's just another bad habit I got um but the not the last night she sang him strange food and he really was not he was 12 and her voice was gone and he couldn't appreciate I mean I appreciate it but what's happening but she began Seven Trees bear a strange fruit blood only and blood that love room and got interrupted and said Miss holiday but how can there be blood at the root and I I mean I made my face look like a fist I said shut up don't say a word just shut up and he wore these Great Horn Rim glasses he was called a professor at 12. huge glasses she continued pastoral scenes all a gallon Sal but tonight and the twist then smile and God said Miss holiday I don't understand pastoral sins and she turned and she's just used I mean she just erupted using every word every profanity and yet she said it means when them crackers is doing this to them then she just and when they take a little boy like you and they just rip his genitals are you know and oh and my son who had never been spoken to that way looked at her and then looked at me with such anger and he said good night good night I'm going to bed and he turned and walked out well I went to him I apologized farther away this holiday I spoke he accepted the apology coldly and said good night mother I took her I was supposed to take her to her hotel and I told her how rude she was and she asked me but did I lie did I lie so I was trying to make the point to her that the end does not justify the means but it didn't get over he really held that against you for a while I guess quite a long time it's about two weeks before I wormed my way back into his good graces crazy thing to you when she followed you to the club yep I was singing I had introduced her and it was the policy in the place never to introduce because it was Hollywood and uh never introduced any celebrity because you might Overlook a celebrity and then you know have hard feelings and so but with Miss holiday I I said oh no so I introduced her and the people stood and applauded and I started to sing and I was singing an old blues um which was baby please don't go baby please don't go baby please don't go back to New Orleans if he's your rice and bean nowhere she ever seen baby please don't go and I was really and there's just the base playing drums and bass and suddenly she screamed stop that B stop her she signed this like my GD mama oh Lord I feel so awful and she got up from the table and went into the toilet and I just started the orchestra I mean there was a big Orchestra but I stopped musicians and I said that I'll be back next and I followed her in the toilet and I was really going to let her have it really I mean I didn't use profanity not because I didn't know it I chose not to use it and my temper was never you know minuscule and I wasn't afraid of anything so I was really she was going to meet her match and I've been in the toilet and a little woman just ran out of the toilet as I got there and I said let me tell you one thing I mean Billy Holiday and she said oh baby don't worry about it you can't have how you sound all black women sounded like all color women sounded like unless they're trying to sound White she said you can't help sounding like my mama so she forgave me I was coming in to exact from her an apology and then she said did you see that little white woman that run out of here I said yes she said she said I come in here to go to the toilet and she's sitting on the toilet and I opened the door and she said close that door and I said B if you wanted to close you should have closed with your GD sir I said Billy um she said I said you know that woman might have been an old fan of yours she said girl you see how when you call my name all them crackers stood up and I said I saw the people stand up and she said you see how they plowed I said yes she asked me you know why I said because they honor you she said BS she said they just stood up so that they could see a black woman who'd been in jail for dope she gave you some advice on your career yeah she gave me advice on a lot of things she told me um that you couldn't ever get so high somebody would like to bring you down she gave me a lot of advice but she told you yeah go ahead main thing she did for me well hey really had nothing to do with what she said to me but when I almost lost guy in those two weeks when he was as cold as a fish to me and we had we enjoyed each other's company we laughed a lot together I realized he told me he said when I grew up I'm not going to let anybody no matter how famous she is curse out my children and I realized that not just for her but on any famous person but raising a black child in this country I had to always be between him or her whatever the child and a force which would deny him the room to breathe in I had to always be that it helped me to grow much more protective without being suffocating from that day all his life is until he became a man I stood between him and murderous forces whether they do what Jules Pfeiffer called the little murders or the large murder I would never they'd have to do me first but it was through Billie Holiday that I learned she had said to you that you'd be famous but probably not if you're singing it and it wasn't too long after I guess that you give up singing it was true I didn't realize it until this minute when you said that really what made you decide to give up well I I could sing reasonably well and sometimes I could really smoke but I never loved singing I never loved it and in order to become great I don't mean great for the world to see but great tricks to stretch to all the breadth and width and height one can aspire to reach one has to love the thing love it and I never loved singing I sang to make my living I love to sing in church oh I can sing in church all for the whole service but I never loved standing in front of an audience and singing I love to write one has to be ready to sacrifice almost all body Comforts for the thing whatever it is when you move to New York and joined the Harlem Writers Guild they were really tough on you and on all the other writers and I found that really interesting because it seemed to me that they wanted to really give the kind of forceful criticism that writers need and with that came implicit support I think that's true but the criticism was there it wasn't it wasn't blind support or just unconditional support and and the the criticism was so severe the challenge so unrelenting that writers or people who said they wanted to write but were not willing to develop the kind of concentration to be found usually in people just about to be executed in the next 15 minutes were weeded out you've really had to be committed to writing to be in the Harlem writer's Guild in the late 50s and the 60s it just had to be committed to having such control of the language alone that you could ball up figuratively uh ball up maybe three nouns and four adjectives and a few verbs and connectives in your hand and throw them against the wall and make them bounce like rubber just had to have such control and I I stayed with them and I I believed it I agreed and I fell in love I've always loved words and I've been writing for a long time but I hadn't really tried to understand what um what writing well was all about it is said I think Hawthorne said easy reading is damned hard writing and vice versa so to write try to write so that a reader is 30 pages in a book before the knowledge awareness of reading comes upon the reader that's writing speaking with Maya Angelou if you're just joining us and she's just completed the fourth volume of her autobiography and it's called the heart of a woman it was about that time also in New York that you really started becoming very interested in Martin Luther King and the movement that that he was leading how did exposure to the change your life I mean I know it led to to job opportunities and change your life in that way but but how did it change the way you saw yourself and uh saw the work that was cut out in front of you well I think it seeing that the King was like seeing the light at the end of a tunnel I mean not and maybe not having been aware that one was in a tunnel he was so bright and hot and the hope he extended to us all to Black and White to all Americans to hope he extended was almost reachable it was like a magic time and I thought that singing was much too frivolous I wanted to do something more directly involved with with the helping to change the world um I was so proud that he existed I was so proud of myself for being black at a time when Martin Luther King existed it was magic I can't I can't describe it anymore except in my book I have tried to do so and I might be able to understand it more if I was trying if I wrote it and we you organize the Cabaret for Freedom with God for Cambridge proceeds to benefit the movement benefits click um and well I guess there were a lot of black performers who uh really didn't feel like they could do their acts um in in a good place and let alone doing it with the proceeds going to a cause that they believed in is that something that you think um could work well today is the equivalent of the Cabaret for Freedom happening anywhere I I don't think that the equivalent is happening I think it could work it's one of the rare few things I think which can work today my belief is that out of every era come leadership comes leadership and the strategies come out of the era themselves and you know the only from those from the time can um a strategy which will work for that time be successful however a kind of review is a part of the human entertainment cycle and we've always had those sort of things I think of everything from a West African storytelling a North African storytelling uh the days of the day the amphitheaters in Rome Greece and Asia and Europe I mean they've always been a kind of what the what the television media now calls magazine shows so the review would be a wonderful idea today it's one of the few things I think that would work what kind of Acts did people do for the Cabaret for Freedom well there were comedians there was a j flash Riley who's just recent who my son one of the leads in the Broadway show yeah I'm sorry the name is gone but it will come uh Godfrey Cambridge of course a woman named leontine Watts a singer uh Orson Bean um there were skits and it was it was an exciting thing people not everything directly spoke to quote the movement unquote but there was nothing which was a put down of the movement there was nothing that was in contrariness to the movement and people had a great time it was really entertaining and the proceeds except for the monies which were paid scale which was paid to to the actors and to the performers the rest of the monies went to the southern Christian leadership conference at that time when organizing actions when uh there was an action that you and Abby Lincoln and a few other women organized to be held in the U.N after lumumba was killed and um you had gotten some advice from your friend who had become your husband uh who was an African Freedom Fighter yes uh and part of the advice was to make sure when you do an action like that that the people the Grassroots Community is behind you in it and aware of the fact that you're doing it can you tell us how you how you use that and if you thought that that is good advice yes it's excellent advice um it wasn't so that they would necessarily be with us because we didn't really expect them to come down to United Nations but so that they would know what we were doing and why we were doing it so we wanted a demonstration at United Nations to say that black people protested the murder of Patrice lumumba so we went on 125th and 7th Avenue we spoke in front of Mr Michelle's bookstore and let the people know that we were going down uh so well maybe if we got done in at least the people in Harlem or somebody would say well they were killed because they were trying to do something for us at least we would just be there and sort of be knocked out you know and nobody would know why but of course the it seemed about a tenth of Harlem came down there were thousands of people down at the United Nations we'd expect it at most 50. there were thousands of people we were thrown and there was Rosa guy Abby Lincoln and I in particular we three um we had an organization we had found it called Kawa Cultural Association of women of African Heritage it's quite a mouthful but we had hoped to be the cultural arm of any organization meant to to make the country better than it was and so we had gotten a few members and some of their men some of their husbands are lovers or friends or whatever and a few friends who weren't attached and we had expected 50 and when we got out of the taxes and saw those thousands of people Milling about we were really undone we Rose to the occasion because what choice did we have but the truth is we were shaking in our boots and it was quite a flamboyant demonstration and successful with obviously Mr lumumba could not be brought back so that was but I mean successful in that there is a a great many people knew that black Americans were not uh casual are uncaring about the murder of Patrice lumumba as a result of that so that Africans began after that to say that black Americans care about Africa and that was the first demonstration of its sword to say that those I think there are some other advice you got that you applied in the same in the same action and it was that if you ever really need help particularly in a spot like that to take someone who's really Street wise maybe even a hoodlum and ask for his assistance as opposed to a middle-class black person well that's true uh and maybe you could describe for a situation that you did it and how it worked out and I'll tell you my reaction afterwards um a friend a young man Carlos Moore who is a Cuban um I had been very instrumental in getting some of the people into the United Nations before we sort of stood up and and were counted literally and figuratively and when we came out I heard that he oh he told me let's go to the Belgian Embassy built in consulate we went and when when I arrived I was told that Carlos had been in there four and it was on the 11th floor I believe that he had been in there for a half hour and no one knew what was happening to him well I thought somebody has to go in and uh rather than ask anybody to do something I'd rather do it if especially if it's dangerous or very hard work I'd rather do it myself but I needed someone to go with me and I thought of what my husband told me he said if you're ever in danger never go to a middle class or bougie and he's South African Osa he is pan-african Congress he said go to a saltzi sootsie which was the name in closer for a thug he said he will know that he has nothing to lose and if he agrees to go with you he will go all the way so I looked around on the street for the person who looked most like you know that there was a man who had scars I mean running everywhere except in his eyes just uh he'd been brutalized and he had a mean look on his face and I said I said excuse me brother but my name is Maya and little Carlos is in this building and I want to go in and I need somebody to go with me when you go he says sure let's go he didn't wonder what would happen to him we went in the place was teeming with police there were police outside there Riot squads and everything all white and we went in and the policeman with lots of Badges and brass asked where we were going and I had seen on the directory that there was a book company on the 10th floor so I said we're going to that book company and the policeman asked this Tootsie and he said I'm with her I'm going as far as she goes all the way he was wonderful to me because we got locked out on the in the fire escape you know the inner fire escape and the doors were locked and I panicked and he told me sister Maya you don't have anything to worry about he said they have to walk Over My Dead Body to get to you you just stay right here and I mean he just took over and you know it showed me a number of things I learned a number of things from that one that that it is wiser it's late to learn it but it is wiser to be a bit more prepared if you're going to risk your life and never to risk anybody else's life I was very embarrassed that I had by my silliness risk that man's life I also learned that there is a level of Courage which is so automatic that trumpets do not go off uh rhetoric it's not you know doesn't come into the voice that greater speech that I shall do this the man just said you have nothing to worry about they have to walk Over My Dead Body to get to you and when we got out into the street and I said oh I want to I want to thank you and I apologize and and I want to tell my husband how good you were and he said just tell him there was a black man who was ready to go the distance with you that's how and he just sort of merged back into the crowd I felt in a really amazing story yeah and I asked myself if I would ever do anything like that though I haven't ever been in quite that position anyways but there was a moment in it when you're in the stairway and the the doors are locked on either end you can't really get out and you're you know you're expecting that people open the door and maybe shoot you um and then and then the person who you would ask to accompany you turn towards you and I mean your your writing was very excited at this point I was prepared for something to happen and when he turned to you I said to myself oh I hope he doesn't attack her yeah is he gonna rape her she's not going to become his victim and I got really scared for you in that moment and obviously I had I had no reason to because everything was under control but is that the kind of thing that you would ever think about or if you were in that position again or do you think that that oh no because the life was at stake both his life and mine right so that would have been really a stupid thing too I wouldn't have never thought that no um he I mean I wouldn't have been surprised at the moment if he had turned and said how could you have you know gotten me involved in something as stupid and dangerous as this right I mean you know if he'd put me down that wouldn't have surprised me because when I came to myself after the panic subsided I put my own self down so that wouldn't have surprised me but what did surprise me was the ease with which he showed his generosity and his courage it's a great story um you went to talk to Malcolm X afterwards to see what what advice he'd have on on what what to do next not another all these people had been mobilized um what did you think of his politics which were which were considerably different from Martin Luther King's politics well I I had really expected him to say well great will and what we were concerned about of course was that um the black people had shown by coming in such numbers that they were really Furious in hiring him and so we thought since neither Abby Rose a guy nor I or any of the other women in our group knew what to do with this uh sort of a large amount of anger and and more uh mobilization we thought we would talk to Malcolm and he would say okay we'll take them and tell them what to do you know sort of take over the responsibility and he said no he said we are Muslims Muslims do not send black women and black men and black children down to face the guns and the dogs we do not do that and we were so disappointed but he said but this is he said I'll tell you what's going to happen tomorrow every black leader of your middle class LED every member of the middle class leadership will put you down they will say that you are communist s are you do not represent the mood in the black society of black communities and he said but we will not do so I will not join that Brigade the next day it was absolutely true we were call them radicals who really did not understand what was at stake and all sorts of ridiculous things and Malcolm said that what the move with that action that demonstration proved was it white Americans had better understand it was time now for balance of bullets and that that was a very real demonstration that came out of the heart of Black America so we were you know partly pacified but he was a staunch Muslim at the time and really his politics were intertwined with his with his religion and they simply could not be separated I guess I guess he was he was familiar with um being denied uh by by other leaders and being called too radical and atypical of the mood of the people okay um most of the period of time that you write about in the book uh you are a single parent and uh you're constantly having to decide between the things you want to do whether that's you know moving from the west coast to the East Coast or going without a job to wait for a better job or just going out at night or staying late at a party you always have to weigh that between what it means to you and what it's going to mean for your for your son um did you have any like guiding principles to lead you through that period and weighing all those decisions well some yes I I decided that no man would sleep in my house um no man to whom I wasn't married would sleep in my house and I had his health and appetite as the next person so I devised all sorts of ways of getting out and then guy was 12 say 13. he was too old to have a babysitter uh so I learned to lie quite a lot I would go out and stay and visit with a gentleman's friend and come home at five o'clock in the morning somehow get in the house and guide awaken about six I'd get in the house and take a bath and put on my gown and robe and he would come out of his bedroom and I'd be making breakfast and he'd say G Mom I don't know how you can get up so early I mean gee mom you really ain't so good and I'd make breakfast and sit there propped somehow with my hand under my chin until he would go off to school I would be so grateful to see the door slam it's like that's good today that that was one of the principles in my life with him I wanted his respect and I wanted to him to know that a woman is deserving of respect as a man is deserving of respect so that when I did have a man to come into the house and I mean by this time I wasn't putting a great deal over on him you know he's right um he had to appreciate what I had done with it he knew I was you know feeling or not and he knew that if a man came into the house and I was extremely serious about the man and he had to act accordingly that was one of them um I tried to tell the truth and delivered and two I tried very hard to make him love truth love it the real thing and guiding principles well I've imagined sometimes what it would be like um to have grown up with a parent or parents who were performers or who were in very active political or artistic circles and you were very active in both and to and to be moving a lot and what what a life like that would be like do you think that that it was um good for him uh in the long run and you know did he emerge with an incredible political Consciousness and artistic gifts yes he has certainly political Consciousness well he has more and other than that he is his own manself stuff he's a wonderful human being kind he belongs to himself when he was about 18. he explained to me that I had done something which really displeased him and he said mother I don't know if you thought about this so I better tell you that this action was really uh very bad if you did it again if you do it again it will tell me that you intend to do it and I will suffer relationships with you from you he's his own man's self is very serious good sense of humor ah that I had the choice of leaving him with others are taking him with me and that seemed to me to be no choice he might have had a more stable life I mean from Outer it would have been more stable he would have gone to the same school lived in the same house but I was what he had I gave him love and humor and so I became the stability wherever we were that therein resided stability sometimes I made a lot of money singing and I could take a tutor alone and he got and I take a suite or an apartment hotel and you know we lived Posh sometimes I'd have three weeks of singing and five weeks off and three more weeks in the same time and I couldn't stay in those Posh hotels so many times I stayed in hotels which had one bedroom and I would string the sheet across the room and he would sleep in the bed and I would sleep on the sofa that was life but at least we read together and we laughed and he he's healthy he has a wry sense of humor and it was the best thing that I could do for myself as well as for him wasn't just for him he gave me he became my brother too speaking with Maya Angelou if you're just joining us you married uh for a while an African freedom fighter who was the person giving you the advice that we referred to a little earlier and you traveled with him to Europe and to Africa and met a lot of other Freedom Fighters and a lot of other wives of Freedom Fighters the impression that I got reading that was that the women were kind of outside of a lot of the political decision making since some resentment about that though maybe I misread that well that first group I met in London for the most part were but then the group of women I met in when I lived in Egypt were in many cases women who themselves had escaped South Africa Southwest Africa Angola Uganda at that time was still Kenya was still dependent or still a colony but south southern Africa from basuto and bertrana land there were a number of women who themselves escaped the repressions and walked from southern Africa to Malawi or walked three thousand hours of 2015 500 miles to Freedom or to what was away from that oppression and themselves became politically active and involved in the freeing of their countries so that first group I met were women who had for the most part Who had who were simply wives of Freedom Fighters no okay I understand the distinction what um since you've spent a lot of time working on African issues and on American issues how is your time now divided either for your political thinking or for your activist thinking in terms of issues of a meeting import to Africa and once to America well I'm going to leave for Ghana on the 1st of December to work out the practicals for a plan I have which will begin to operate September 82. I've taken a chair at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem North Carolina I'll take 20 students to Africa 10 black 10 white all Southern my course is called African culture and its impact on the west I'll give a mini course in April so when I go over there in a couple of weeks it's to work out where I'm going to house the students where they were bored and that's in under which professors they'll be able to study I suspect I believe I hope that those 20 students I take in 82 and I'll take 20 and 83 in 20 and 84. that those students will never be the same Southerners tend to be conservative not just politically so of the 20 maybe five will relocate in the North or the east for the West 15 will stay there and go on to become principles of schools elementary school teachers doctors chancellors of University lawyers mothers husbands wives fathers and they will be changed and I hope thereby in that Ripple on after the rock is dropped in the Palm that effect thereby to make some impact on the political and social face of my country interesting way of doing it I want to thank you so very much thoroughly enjoyed meeting you thank you Maya Angelou has been my guest and she's completed the fourth volume of her autobiography and this one's called the heart of a woman she's published a number of volumes of poems as well as the other parts of her autobiography the technical director for today's show has been Rob Richards the production assistant is Maeve mcgoran contributing today was John's wed the associate producer fresh as Danny Miller and my name is Terry Gross I want to thank you for listening I wish you a very good evening

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Id: PRiptyomUL4

Length: 51min 54sec (3114 seconds)

Published: Fri May 05 2023