My name is Monk Rowe and we are in Orlando,
Florida, and I'm very privileged to have Marty Morell with me today. And I'm going to introduce you as a man who
wears lots of hats, including the cap you have on today. MM: Yeah. I'm a hat man. MR: Yeah. And drummer/percussionist/vibist band leader,
teacher. MM: Yeah, yeah. Professor. At the University of Central Florida. MR: Yeah. Did you have a career path as a young man
that was inspired by something? MM: Not really. I just knew that I wanted to be a musician,
at a very early age, 14 years old. I went to a big show at the Paramount Theater
on Broadway. And I was just in awe. I saw the drummer up there playing. It was Alan Freed, I don't know if you have
any rock & roll fans. MR: Oh sure. MM: And it was just a great show, right. And the back-up band I was watching, my eyes
was fixated on that drummer. I said wow, this is so cool. I want to do that. MR: That's where they'd have guys come out
and do a couple of hits and the bands would back them up. Right? And then the next guy would come out. MM: Right. Right. Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers, and the Platters,
and Chuck Berry even was on that show, and Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers. Did I say that already? MR: Right. Frankie Lymon. Yeah. MM: And yeah that was it. I knew right then and there. It was 1958. I had started playing drums in school and
I said that's it, that's it for me. And then actually what really was the kind
of final decision-maker was I got my first gig, right? And the gig paid ten dollars, right? And I tell this story to my friends and they
laugh because this guy I was playing with was an accordionist. He calls me and he says, "Marty, Marty, I
got a gig, we got a gig." And I said, "Great. How much does it pay?" He says, "It pays eight dollars." And I said, "Oh man, you think we can get
a little bit more money?" This was my very first gig and I'm already
asking for more money, right? And all my friends already, they know me,
and I'm always asking for more money today. But actually he did pay me the ten bucks. MR: It's worth asking. MM: So then after that we did a second gig,
like a month later, right? For the Knights of Columbus and it was a dance
and everything. And I made 25 dollars. MR: What year would this have been? MM: That would have been 1958. MR: And that's not a bad amount of money. MM: Listen, my dad was making 60 dollars a
week in those days. And that was a pretty good gig. For me to make 25 dollars, not only that but
I was playing music and they fed us a great meal. And I said man sign me up, this is it, I'm
in, I'm totally in. MR: So what was the song list like on that
kind of gig? MM: Oh you know the old standards, "Don't
Blame Me," "Foggy Day." Like all those old show tunes. MR: If someone had come up and said can you
guys play a rumba, would you have known what to do at that point? MM: Yes. MR: Why? MM: Well because this accordionist friend
of mine, he actually taught me some rhythms. Because he was working at a studio, the Joe
Biviano Accordion Studio in Manhattan. Right? And there was a drum teacher there. And he went and he got the information from
the drum teacher, and the drum teacher taught him and then he taught me. MR: That's neat. Because you don't always have to learn from
people who are playing the same instrument as you. MM: Right, right, right. So he was a great friend. That was my first musical experience, like
working professionally, right. And the thing for me is that I felt very natural. It came easily. I could always hear rhythms and hear what
to do as a drummer, right? And the people ask me why are you a musician,
you know. And I say I became a musician by default. Because I wasn't good at anything else. Music was what I was good at. And so I developed a sense of identity in
music, like really early. MR: Were your parents supportive of this path? MM: Yeah, yeah they were. My dad and my mom - she's Puerto Rican. She used to sing in Puerto Rico as a young
girl and actually she loved music. And my dad, see my dad was a businessman and
he said, "Look, okay. You want to be a musician that's great. But get an education." And I said, "Okay. That sounds good." So then I followed that path and I went to
Manhattan School of Music and I studied at Julliard, percussion at Julliard, and that
served me well. And it was nice that they were behind what
I wanted to do. MR: Did it ever occur to you to become a percussionist
in a classical symphony orchestra? MM: Well at the time, when I was in school
I played with the National Orchestral Society there in Manhattan. It was an orchestra of all the students from
Julliard, Columbia University and a lot of the music departments. So I played with the orchestra. And I thought wow, this is great. I was kind of enthralled with that beautiful
sound you know, orchestral sound. But I was in a percussion section, I was one
of maybe five or six guys. And this was during the school year. And then on holidays and in the summers I
was doing little gigs like up in the Catskill Mountains and I started having fun doing that. And I said wow, this is a lot cooler. This is fun. You know. This is easy. So and of course I started playing shows,
early, right. So I was reading charts at 14, 15 years old. So you know, I was getting that kind of experience. And I was making money doing it. You know, so you become a professional musician
to earn a living. So it seemed like I just naturally rolled
into that position. MR: There's a lot of down time when you're
a percussionist in an orchestra, isn't there? MM: Absolutely. You count like a hundred bars and you get
ready to play your two little triangle notes, right, then the conductor stops and says,
"Okay let's take it back to Letter A." Then you've got to count all over again while you're
waiting like that. So I mean it was exciting. At the time it was really exciting. And I really enjoyed it. I really learned a lot. Of course I was just auxiliary percussion. You know, I played cymbals and bass drum and
suspended cymbal, wood block, that kind of thing. Some standard. But the percussion section was headed by Morris
Goldenberg, who was a percussion teacher at Juilliard and at Manhattan. He had students from both schools. So he was the head of the percussion department
there and the orchestra. The National Orchestral Society. In New York. And so I mean it was great experience to be
there under his guidance. MR: I want to take you back to the Alan Freed
show. I'm sort of fascinated by that period where
music was moving from basically swing-based to straight eighth notes. Were you aware of that - both sides of that
coin? MM: Yes somewhat. People ask me how do you think it got to where
it was straight? Like straight eighth notes. Well I think perhaps Latin music is more eighth
note based, like a cha cha, which is - right? And that music kind of infiltrated the musical
scene, right? And so the combination of the two, you know
and then they started to add those elements and perhaps that how the even eighth note
feel got started. And then another possibility is that, you
know playing swing is kind of a difficult, it's difficult to get that feel, right? And maybe some drummers thought it was easier,
they started playing eighth note stride, or like those early days - like a shuffle kind
of, early, early rhythm & blues, right? So it might have morphed into a more even
eighth feel, right? So it's a combination of a few things I think
that caused that to happen. MR: Is there such a thing as playing behind
the beat or ahead of the beat? MM: Well you hear that a lot. I think the main thing is finding where it
grooves. Where is feels best. You know, and certain tunes, you know, like
in the Ellington band, right, I had the good fortune to work with the Ellington band for
about six years, six and a half years. And you know it's a more laid back kind of
feel, like especially like something like "Jeep's Blues" or even "Satin Doll" with that
band - it's laid back but it really grooves. And it's not really behind the beat but it's
just in a place where it really feels good, right? And then it depends on the tempo. I mean you're not going to lay back if you're
playing an uptempo. You know what I mean? It's the tempo that's pushing you forward
so you've got to keep driving it, right? But certain kinds of music lend themselves
to a little bit more laid back style, right? And that's kind of how I approach it. But basically you just try to get it feeling
good, wherever it sits. And that's the place I try to get to, every
time I play. MR: Is it partly the bass player you're working
with that - well let me rephrase - It seems like there'd be bass players that you work
better with and some that it just doesn't jive. MM: That's true. But for the most part if a guy's a professional
then you just kind of take care of your job description. And you try to make the music feel good. Right? That's what a bass player and a drummer are
supposed to do together. They're supposed to work together as a team. If you get clashing egos that could be a problem. Right? But I believe that when you play music you've
got to leave your ego home, and you need to serve the music and forget about your own
personal agenda. And your agenda should be to make that particular
music sound and feel as good as you can, especially in a rhythm section. Right. So yeah, there's some bass players that I
love playing with for certain kinds of music. When I was with the Ellington band Hassan
Shakur, the bass player, he played with that band for over 35 years. And he works with Monty Alexander now. And he actually won Ted Mack's Amateur Hour
- he was three years old playing bass. Do you remember that show? MR: I do. MM: So, but he is just, for that kind of music
he is just the best. He's the easiest and it's so easy to play
with him, especially those Ellington style grooves. And it was a pleasure to work with him. MR: It's interesting that the band has retained
that - or retained that kind of feel with some of the key players having passed away
or whatever. You don't have Johnny Hodges there anymore
but if they're still laying back as you say. MM: Well the thing is that that band is actually
from the original times when Duke started it, right, so it would go along and when somebody
died, that position got filled, right? So they kept everything going. You know Duke passed and Mercer took over,
and some of the guys that had worked with Duke still stayed in the band so it was kind
of always passing the flag to the next person. So there was a certain way to play in that
band and that's what - if you could do that then you got the gig, that type of thing. Right? So I'm honored to have been part of that Ellington
legacy even though - actually I worked with Barry Lee Hall. Barry Lee Hall unfortunately passed away a
few years ago. He was a trumpet player and he worked with
Ellington. All right? So he was the last connection. And also Rocky White, the drummer, Duke Ellington
himself hired Rocky, right? And he was with the band for 35, 38 years,
something like that. So to get a position in that band somebody
has to die. Then you get a position. MR: That's right. There's this - Ellington never fired anyone
I guess, at least that's what I've read. MM: Well I guess that's true because if the
cats accepted you or wanted you then you're up to the task, you're up to playing the right
way. So I actually resigned about four or five
years ago, because I thought I want to leave on my own terms. I'm not going to wait until I die. MR: I have other things I can do. MM: Well actually I just didn't want to do
the traveling anymore and I thought it was better for the band to get somebody that could
do all the gigs. Actually last year I did a few gigs. They were here in Florida and Joe couldn't
make it so I filled in. MR: Oh. Nice. MM: Yeah, you get tired of the traveling. MR: Do you ever have any problems figuring
out what to play behind the bass solo? There have been a lot of bad jokes floating
around about uh oh here comes the bass solo, everybody's going to start talking. MM: Yeah, yeah yeah. That's true. MR: And it's true because everybody tends
to stop and the bass player's got to like carry the whole thing. And when I think about, gee if I was a drummer,
I don't know what I would do either. MM: Well the main thing is you just kind of
keep the groove going. I know when I played with Hassan with Ellington,
he always liked it when I played, just keep a nice background feel happening. You're not going to get too busy or too loud,
because you don't want to cover him up you know. But you know, once in a while the pianist
would drop in a couple of things and it's nice. It makes it an interesting bass solo, right? You know, I just kind of follow along, any
soloist. But you've got to take into consideration
the volume, you know, and usually play on the hi hat type of thing. Although when I was working with Eddie Gomez
and Bill Evans, I played straight ahead. Like it was a more modern kind of a feel. And Eddie played like a saxophone or any other
horn, he was so ridiculous like with his technique and everything. So I played behind him as though I was playing
behind a sax or something. So that was a different, of course that was
a different style altogether. Right? So you've got to always take that into consideration
too you know, whatever style, whatever tune, whatever groove you're playing that also figures
into how you handle playing drums behind a bass solo. MR: Did Bill Evans ever give you instructions
or things he'd like to hear. Could you do this instead of what you're doing? MM: No. MR: Did you hear much from him? MM: Never. Absolutely. The only thing he said to me one time was,
"You know you might think about adding a third cymbal, just to maybe get a different - to
be able to switch over to a different sound." I had a ride cymbal and I actually had what
at the time was a flat ride made by Paiste, right? That's a particular sound and it's never overpowering. And actually I switched to - this is kind
of a funny story. I met Bill's mother at the Kennedy Center
when we did a concert there. And there was a little reception afterwards
and I met Bill's mother, right? And Bill introduces me, and she said, oh,
the first thing she said to me, "The drums are too loud. I couldn't hear Bill." That was all I remember. She didn't say oh hi, how are you, nothing. So I guess I did, I took it to heart and then
I heard about these flat ride cymbals and I got a deal with Paiste at the time and I
started endorsing Paiste cymbals. And they made the flat ride. So I picked one up. And that's the cymbal that's on pretty much
all the recordings that I did with Bill. I used that flat ride. And it made it really easy in the concert
hall, I could dig in and I never really kind of smeared up the cover of the piano, that
had a lot of definition too. So it made it easy. MR: Yeah. It's got to be hard to like dig in but not
play - but not at the same time. MM: Right, right. Actually now I think I have more control where
I can do that easier. Back then, that youthful kind of energy where
you just want to go for it all the time you know. It just made it easier. I could free up, I didn't have to worry about
playing too loud. MR: Yeah. I think I've read, or heard, seen, that you
were well prepared for that gig before you got it because you had like checked them out
seriously. MM: Well the thing is I became a huge fan
of Bill Evans. I first heard "Portrait in Jazz" in maybe
1961, something like that. And a bass player friend of mine in high school,
he played it for me and I said, "Wow, this is the most beautiful music I ever heard." And I became a huge fan. And the next day I went out and bought whatever
I could find, like LPs right? And I started to listen to Bill, a lot, the
early trio with Scott LaFaro and Paul Motian, right? And all the cats at that time were just in
love with that trio. It was just the most beautiful thing to hit
the scene. So it was my favorite jazz group at the time. And I never thought that I would one day be
the drummer. But some years later the opportunity presented
itself, so I had the chance to play with Bill at the Vanguard. He was auditioning drummers. So I went down and played on a Thursday night,
and anything he played, I knew his book. So I think that kind of surprised him. Anything he threw me, and then after the gig
he said, "Wow it sounds like you've been playing with us for a long time." And I said, "In some ways I have." Because I listened so much. And it seemed like everything clicked. It was one of those nights where everything
worked and it was really nice. So the next day his manager called me and
he said, "Do you have a passport?" So I knew then that I had the gig. So it was nice. It was a thrill. It really was. It was a great time. MR: Was it hard to watch, he had health problems
through those years, right? MM: Yeah. MR: Was it hard to watch that? MM: Well through those years you would never
know it. Bill was always very cool and always seemed
in control of everything. He was a gentleman, he was very - took care
of business, you know. I think it was later on actually, it got a
little bit, or maybe - I would have never known. I knew through the other cats that told me. It wasn't really that obvious. But I guess just before he got on the methadone
program you could see that he was a little bit - it was becoming an even bigger problem. MR: Did it affect his playing at that point,
that you knew? MM: Not really. Not really. And I think if he was feeling sick it might
have affected his playing a little bit you know. But he always took care of business. He was very professional that way. He always, you know, honored any contract
or any engagement and he would always make sure that he took care of what needed to be
taken care of. MR: Yeah. MM: Very responsible that way. MR: It's unfortunate that jazz, especially
in the 50s and somewhat in the 60s I guess, was associated with drug abuse and all that. And sometimes I tell people well look where
people went to work. They went to work in a bar very often, and
the surroundings. MM: Back then they didn't know, like what
they know now about excessive use of those drugs. Back then they didn't really - it's the same
thing with smoking. Everybody smoked, right? Now like 60 or 70 years later, "Oh man it's
really bad. You shouldn't smoke." You know. But back then everybody was smoking. So, and I just finished reading the Miles
Davis autobiography. And it goes into all that with Charlie Parker
and Bud Powell and all that stuff. And, but what those guys were going through,
it's terrible. I mean it'd break your heart when you read
some of that. And, you know, you say well no wonder why
they self-medicated. You know? Just to get through. It was a very difficult time, for the music
too as well, jazz music. MR: Did you resign from the trio? MM: Yeah. I did. MR: Was there a reason for that? MM: Well again, I was tired of the road and
I wanted to expand, trying to do some different things. You know I loved Bill, I loved the music,
but I also financially it wasn't the best. Okay? It was, I survived. It was okay. But I knew I had abilities and I wanted to
be able to buy a house and plan for the future a little bit, and I knew I couldn't do that
if I'd stayed on the road with Bill Evans. And after almost seven years I thought -
MR: It's a long time to do anything actually. Well if you don't mind my asking, what was
your typical - were you on a salary? MM: Well, you know, back then, you know let's
see, we were at the top of the gate of the Vanguard or something like that, you know,
it was a hundred and thirty bucks a week. MR: A hundred thirty bucks a week. MM: But my rent was a hundred thirty dollars
a month. MR: Yeah, still, that's -
MM: Pretty meager. MR: Yeah, that's a quarter of your -
MM: Yeah 25 percent. But the thing is, and then we'd do concerts,
and that would pay a little bit more. If we'd go to Europe he could pay me more. But really, in 19, let's see, my last year
with Bill was 1974, I mean I think I made $15,000 for the year. MR: And you got paid for recordings but you
probably didn't get - MM: Royalties, no, no, no. MR: Residuals? MM: No nothing like that. MR: Got paid for the date. MM: But since, you know, my Bill Evans days,
some recordings have come out, there are some tapes that were in the closet type of thing. And so I did get paid for those, which is
kind of nice. But that's how it was. You know like he had a story from Jimmy Cobb
all the time, he recorded "Kind of Blue" you know and got $60 for the recording date. And it's the biggest selling jazz recording
in history. But that's how things were set up. It was for the artist, the main artist. Right? And if you were a musician you got paid scale,
union scale whatever it was for a record date and you know, that's just the way it is. MR: Have you read this Peter Pettinger? What he said about you? "Unsung stalwart of piano trio history." That's you. "Responsible for an exceedingly tight unit
that could swing and drive relentlessly. His control of the 12-bar sections in a number
like 'Twelve Tone Tune' for instance, snappy and precise as could be." MM: All right I remember that, snappy. MR: Snappy. MM: Very English. That's very English. MR: That's right. MM: Rather snappy. MR: Yes. So you moved on. And I'm wondering about what you do now with
your teaching. If you look at your resume, you've done everything
from the piano trio to studio work to leading your own band, to playing big band, jingles. Can you impart to your students what you have
to do to be ready for to make a living in music? MM: Well that's exactly what we - that's our
main focus in the UCF jazz program, all our students. And you know, if you get a good jazz education,
because to play jazz well you really need to have your instrument under control, you
need to be a really strong musician to play jazz well, right? You've got to know, you have to have good
technique, you have to know a lot about music theory, especially like horn players. And we make sure our drummers, they take jazz
theory and they would take ear training with them and they have to learn tunes, have to
play them on the piano, stuff like that. So we want them to be full musicians as well. So, and when you get this kind of solid foundation
in jazz and learning jazz, it's a very difficult form of music to learn how to play well. I think you can take that and go any direction
in the music business, and bring a lot to the table, if you just focus on that particular
area. That's one of the reasons why I left Bill,
you know, because I wanted to try to do studio work. I wanted to learn different styles. So I thought well if I could play good enough
to play with Bill Evans, I should be able to take that energy and focus it somewhere
else and perhaps like I should be able to do that too if I put my mind to it. So, you know, if you have a good jazz foundation
I think, and you are well educated in that, on your instrument, in that style right, and
have gone through all the studying and everything, you should be able to fall into any situation
that's out there. Really. If you're interested, well, and also you've
got to do the homework. You've got to do your research. MR: Who were the important rhythm sections
to you that you tell your students, "You've got to check this out?" MM: Well for a big band I've always loved
Mel Lewis and Richard Davis and Roland Hanna and the early Thad Jones-Mel Lewis big band. That was a great rhythm section. And then, you know, the other big band style,
I love Buddy Rich and what he brings to the table. Okay. Because he had a lot of different bass players
and stuff. But he was the driving force of any band that
he fronted. So you played with him or else. Right? And I love Elvin Jones and Jimmy Garrison
and McCoy Tyner and that kind of Coltrane out style, you know. Because I love Elvin. Elvin was one of my all-time favorite drummers,
jazz drummers. And then there's that Miles Davis of the 60s
with Ron Carter and Tony Williams and Herbie Hancock, that's a whole other rhythm section. I mean there's all kinds of different rhythm
sections out there. So I can't say I have a favorite. There's lots of different rhythm sections
with different kinds of music that were happening that now I tell my students, "Go on YouTube
and check it out." That's the beautiful thing, they can go on
YouTube and they can, everything's there to watch and see. MR: Yeah. MM: Back in the day I think a good portion
would go to Birdland and different clubs and I could see them live you know. But on YouTube they could check out a hundred
years of music. MR: Speaking of that, I wanted to play something
new that you're on. MM: Oh that's Klaus Ogerman right. MR: This is Takana. MM: Oh yes. MR: I love this. MM: That's actually Bill's solo verbatim. She transcribed, she played the whole thing. MR: That's really nice. That must be an interesting experience for
you, because you played with him and now you're playing this -
MM: Yeah. That was a fun gig, Takana Miyamoto. And we went to Japan and it was actually on
that tour that I met my wife. MR: Outstanding. MM: And we did "The Letters" tribute kind
of tour we did over there. Concerts. And she is a wonderful pianist. Great. And that one, she just transcribed it and
played it verbatim, the entire solo. MR: And did you try to play verbatim? MM: No. I don't remember from one day to the next
what I played the last time. MR: But you - the recordings I picked out
to listen to, I'm not sure how to say this. You like to double things up a lot or frequently. MM: Double things up. MR: Double things up by for instance, that
piece it seems like you could have been playing - you were fairly busy on the snare drum with
the brushes. I guess that's what I mean. MM: Right, right. Well that's kind of what I hear, and that's
very stylistic, Bill Evans' style. MR: Yeah. MM: And it's a conversation rather than an
accompaniment. MR: Oh, okay. MM: You know what I mean? It's kind of a conversation rather than just
- and that's basically like that early trio with Scott LaFaro, Paul Motian and Bill, they
created a whole new rhythm section kind of style, right? Where they were three musicians having a conversation
rather than the bass and the drummer accompanying the piano player. Right? So that's where the door started opening for
the role of the drummer and the bass player, the interaction in the rhythm section. MR: I like that because it sounded like a
ballad and an uptempo tune at the same time to me. MM: Well yeah. That's a beautiful piece of music. That's Klaus Ogerman. MR: I was going to say boy, you played with
him and you played with Don Sebesky, who is one of my favorite writers. Cool. MM: Yeah. I did a lot of dates with, we're playing one
of his charts, Sammy Nestico. MR: Oh yeah. MM: Yeah he used to come up - I lived in,
you probably know I lived in Canada for about 25 years and he used to come up to do projects
up there, and fortunately he always asked for me in the rhythm section, so that was
pretty nice. And I did a lot of dates and sessions with
Sammy. Sammy is a great writer. Amazing writer. MR: Yeah. Neat guy too. MM: Yeah. He's a sweetheart. He's still active, he's like 92 or 93 or something,
still writing. It's amazing. MR: And Broadway shows and being in the pit,
a whole other focus. Not only playing time but being on time and
the structure of it. MM: Right. Well you know I like the steadiness of it,
right? And financially it's good money. And also it's the whole union contracts so
it's all pension. And I learned about that early, and I wanted
to make sure that I could get those kind of gigs so I'd have some retirement. Right? And I'm glad I did. Not only was it fun musically, I mean it was
cool playing with a 28-piece orchestra every night and playing the show. It was a lot of fun. I mean you need to be disciplined and, you
know, you can't cut loose or whatever, you know you have to play the gig the way it's
meant to be played. It's almost the same every night. But I like that it was kind of, for me, stress
free. You know you just go in, you don't have to
deal with people in the club or something like that, you're in the pit, nobody really
sees you, you do your gig and then you go home. And you can have kind of a normal life. And the money's good. MR: I've heard and seen some things about
how a drummer I know said he did a show once and he wasn't even in the pit, he was in another
room watching the conductor on a monitor. MM: A monitor? Yeah. I've done that. MR: Have you done that? MM: I've done that. Yes. With earphones. That's kind of weird. I haven't done that too much fortunately. But some of the pits on Broadway are so small
and theaters are old, right, so there's not enough room. So they've got to rig something up in the
back there and put a drummer and percussionist in another room. Right? But actually if you have a good sound man,
right, and they give you a good mix, it sounds like you're playing on a recording every night. I mean it sounds great. You have good earphones and it sounds like
you're right in the middle of a beautifully-recorded CD. MR: Yeah. MM: Now if you have a sound man that doesn't
know what he's doing then it could be really funky you know, it could be a disaster. But if you have a good mix it can be pretty
nice. MR: What's the worst gig you ever played? MM: The worst gig. MR: Sometimes I use this question and usually
it's hard to remember. MM: Well fortunately I haven't had too many
that were bad. Of course early on I did a gig at a place
called the Idea Longue in the Bronx. And it was drums and a guitar - two guitars. And the two guitar players were sitting or
standing, like it was kind of a U-shaped bar and they're standing in the middle of the
bar, and the drums are on a riser out on the other side of the bar, right? So I'm playing and a guy comes in and he hangs
his coat on my cymbal. Right? Of course I was like 17, 18 years old or something
like that. And do you know the drummer Pete Magadini? MR: I've seen the name, yeah. MM: Well Pete is a friend of mine. And he told me he actually worked the Idea
Lounge too. And we exchanged stories about the place. But I can't remember the worst gig I ever
played. Fortunately they just kept getting better
and better, like early. And I always enjoyed my work. I always enjoyed the next gig. You know, if there are any that were bad,
I can't even remember. MR: Yeah. It's just a day at work and tomorrow will
be another. MM: Exactly. You know I tell this story to some of my students. When I first moved to Canada this piano player
called me to work on a gig at a Holiday Inn. And I was new in town so I didn't have a whole
bunch of work right away. But he was doing this gig, and he had to do
an hour show behind an Irish singer who played ukulele and a bunch of drunk Irish people. And he called me and said, "I just thought
on the outside chance that maybe you'd want to fill in for my drummer for two weeks." And he explained about the gig, right. And we could play two tunes before the show. And he said, "I'd love to work with you." And I said, "Sure." I wasn't doing anything. You know. And he was really a nice guy. So I went and did the gig and you know, made
a few bucks, did two weeks and made a friend and we hung out, we played a couple of tunes
before, and it was nice. I mean we were laughing during the show and
it was kind of a joke really. But sometimes it's about friendship and camaraderie
and other fellow musicians. And so it was nice to make friends with somebody. So at the end of the two weeks we parted,
that was it. A couple of years later he calls me and he
says, "Marty are you available to do, I just booked a TV show series and I'm going to be
Musical Director and I'd love for you to do the series." And I said, "Sure, yeah." So meanwhile that gig made a bunch of money. And I said, "Thank you so much." He said, "You were the first person I thought
of to call." MR: Wow. All those years later. MM: Yeah. And that's kind of a karma thing. So I tell that story to my students. So you know if you bring something good, you
know, it's about the human experience, you know what I mean, and that's more important. And we're musicians and sometimes we have
to share something that's kind of funky but the sun will rise the next morning you know
what I mean? And it's only four hours of the day. And it's what we do, we're musicians. So okay, something else will come along that's
better. MR: Yes. I sometimes think of the people that work
eight hours a day at something that they really dislike. MM: Absolutely. MR: And then you compare what we do. MM: Right. Right. MR: It puts things in perspective. MM: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know I always appreciated having work
and being able to do what I do to make a living. And I think that if you approach your work
with a positive kind of an attitude, I think good things kind of fall into place. It's kind of the way I am. It wasn't that I had a motive or something
- like oh this guy's going to call me for a TV show. I never thought about that. You know what I mean? But it's important to enjoy the people that
you work with and that's what's nice about our business. It's a very social kind of thing. And for me that was more than - and he was
a fine writer, I could tell he was a good piano player and a really good musician. And he had to pay his bills so he was doing
this gig, right? MR: A gig is a gig. MM: A gig is a gig. That's just the way it is. So I mean fortunately I think if you play
your cards right everything works out and something good comes out of it. MR: What do you do if a student comes to you
with a recording that they really like and the drums and the percussion are all electronically
created. MM: Well, you know, as Duke Ellington once
said, he said, "There's only two kinds of music: good music and bad music." All right? So it depends on what they're doing with it. I mean if it's musically, if there's something
happening it's cool. I say great. I don't close the door and, for me, it's about
what is the overall thing saying, what's happening with it. I mean if it's just thumping on one chord
over and over again, the same, very uninteresting, I'm going to tell the student I mean I think
this sucks. You know, "Get it off." But I mean you've got to keep an open mind. I mean if it's interesting, I mean I hear
a lot of things that are you know, pretty cool, very well done, the use of electronic
computer-style music. MR: Do your students do that as part of their
instruction? MM: Not really. No we do formal training pretty much. Some of them do it on their own. Although we do have music technology courses
where they use how to use Logic and some of the sequencing software. So they do learn to do that, right? And I think that has its place as well. So I try to understand that too because that
can be a motive, a little income there. If you get good at it, you know, you could
earn some money writing or doing some charts, or a track for somebody. We recently did a track for a friend of ours
at Cirque du Soleil, an electronic kind of style. And we were commissioned to do that, so we
did it. So it's good to understand that part of it
too. MR: Right. Put one more thing in the things you can do. MM: Right. That's it. MR: This is not a musical question, but how
are you feeling about the state of our country these days. MM: Right now? MR: Yeah. MM: Oh I think it's terrible. I think what's happening now with this administration
is absolutely awful. I think it's a crying shame. And I was really, really, really disheartened,
how this whole thing went down. I think it's awful, I really do. And he's going to start cutting down for the
arts, and all those things, and those don't matter, we'll give money to the football teams
and stuff like that, that's better And it's really sad. It's rough. Because I'm a political junkie. I watch the news all the time. Every day I've got to get up and see well
what happened yesterday. MR: Yeah. MM: I'm always - but recently I actually switched
the channel. MR: Me too. MM: Yeah. I can't believe what I am hearing and what
I am seeing. MR: Right. I feel like withdrawing. MM: Yeah. It's like what the hell, what is this. People actually buy this? MR: And you live in a state that has played
like a role. MM: Yes I know. I know. Yeah. That's another thing too. But one thing about being a musician, we're
kind of our own community. And we kind of have our own little universe
and it's a nice place to be. And that's always been like kind of a salvation. When I was a kid, like being a musician, that
was always a place I could go to that made me feel good and I was comfortable. And I have friends in that same circle, right? So it was always a place of comfort. And it still is, even more so now. MR: When you go home do you turn on music? Do you listen to music a lot? MM: Sometimes yes. Sometimes we do. We recently haven't, because usually at dinner
we try to turn off the news and listen to some music. You know I have some LPs and a turntable,
and I like to check out some of the old LPs. But recently I've been listening to, while
driving, I'm trying to put together a CD. I just recorded my first vibraphone CD, you
know, I've been trying to play vibes for the last five or six years. I've always played mallets you know, but to
put out a good, worthy, you know, some recognition that it's difficult. There's so much stuff out there. So many great players. So I've been listening and mixing and how
am I going to do this or that. And I have to do another session, and get
a few more tracks done. So that's what I've been listening to. I usually listen to music I'm working on,
my own. MR: Did you happen to work with Peter Appleyard? MM: Yes. MR: You were in Canada. MM: Yes. He was a good musician. MR: Yes he was. MM: An excellent musician. A good player. And he actually was working with Benny Goodman
and I sat in and played a set with Benny Goodman. So that was nice. Peter was a fine man. He really was a gentleman and when he wanted
to he could really play. He was caught up in the theatrics a lot, but
down deep he was a really good musician. Good player. MR: And I see you played with Marian McPartland
somewhere along the way. MM: Yeah, yeah, back in the day, yeah I played
with her. But what happened with Marian, that was during
the time I was playing with Steve Kuhn and we had just done an album with Gary McFarland,
a thing called "October Suite." Ron Carter was the bass player. And I was working with Marian. And I had to take a couple of nights off and
I sent in a friend of mine to sub for me, right? A guy named Jimmy Capas. And then on the next gig he was on, so I got
X'd by Marian. But I think what happened was that I was maybe
trying to stretch out a little bit too much. She wanted more mainstream, just a little
more solid kind of, you know and I was young and a little bit cocky and I tried to push
her a little bit. MR: What was that thing Lester Young said
- MM: Where she didn't want to go. MR: Some quote from Lester Young, "Just tickety-tick
for Lester, don't be dropping no bombs" or something. MM: Yeah. I guess I got a little too adventurous. But she was really sweet. She sent me some sheet music, some tunes that
I liked, and that's fine. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. And it didn't really bother me. Because I was playing with Steve Kuhn and
Ron Carter. MR: Yeah, that was some nice music. MM: It was different. MR: Well you know how to drive a big band,
I can say that, because I've been rehearsing with this group tonight you know, and now
I can put on my resume that I played with you. MM: Okay. Cool. MR: Do you have anything else that you'd like
to add before we sign off. MM: It's nice to be asked about my past and
my history. I'm flattered every time somebody is interested. And I enjoy revisiting the days. And if somebody could learn something or get
something out of it, that's great. MR: Well I like what you said about attitude
and bringing professionalism as well as friendship to the gig, because it just adds to the good
karma. MM: Absolutely. MR: And sometimes it yields something down
the road and sometimes it doesn't. MM: Right. Well it doesn't matter, you made a friend
and that's more important. MR: And when you think about playing with
Bill Evans and these other people, that's sort of like a basketball player getting to
the NBA. For me, that's the way I think of how many
people want to get there, and never quite do. So to have those experiences, you might not
even realize it at the time. I think you probably do. MM: Yes. Well I was walking on air when I got the gig
with Bill. But after a while you did take it for granted. And I used to talk with Eddie sometimes and
say man I wish he would play some different tunes, man. You know, that type of thing, where you get
a little bit like jaded. But I appreciate it more now when I listen
to some of the old recordings and I can actually be objective. Because back then I was never, I said man,
I sound terrible. MR: Really. MM: Yeah. I really wasn't happening at all. But now I can listen and say well it wasn't
too bad, it was pretty good actually. You know, you know what I mean, you are more
objective now. So you know, in 1973 we did "The Bill Evans
Album." And it was done at Columbia Studios, the famous
studio on 30th Street, that's where "Kind of Blue" was recorded. Right? I mean it was an old church and it was the
studio in New York to record. And Bill recorded there. And we did this session and I walk in and
there's these blankets. They'd made a room for the drums. And I couldn't even see Bill. And they had like 15 mics on the drums. And they said do this and do that and tape
this and you know. And I said but that's not my sound. "Oh no, no, don't worry, we're going to fix
it in the mix." You know, it's going to be fine. So we start recording and I can't even see
Bill, I've got to just go by whatever, he plays an intro and then I pick it up. And when I listened to the finished product
it sounded like there were three guys playing in three different rooms. And that's what was happening. Right? Because there has to be a little bit of bleed
to get that nice togetherness, where it sounds like one unit, not three separate guys, right? So I wasn't really happy with that at all,
right? But wouldn't you know that recording won the
Grammy award in 1973. So what the hell do I know? MR: That's funny because I just was thinking,
I was wondering if you'd ever run into like producers who wanted to do a thing a certain
way and you say well musically that's not perhaps the best way to do this, and it's
not the way we work, either. MM: Well if you play music that's very personal
to you, it's about your sound and what you are bringing to the table, then a good producer
should see that and let that happen naturally. They want to put you in a box that sounds
like everybody else. You know, give us the drum sound that everybody
else gets. You know? So it depends on the kind of music. When we do the studio work it's kind of generic
sounding, like pop, that kind of thing, yeah I can understand it, there's not a lot of
personality, individual personality in that music. But on a jazz thing there's more talking going
on and more conversation, you want to speak in terms about how you feel about things. And your sound is part of what you're bringing
to the table. And when they try to change that up then I
have a little problem with that. MR: Well thanks for your time today. MM: Well sure. MR: I look forward to playing with you later
tonight. MM: Well thank you, appreciate it.