Marchal Hudson Oral History, 2017-03-30

[Music] okay my name is Jen kunkel today's day is March 30th 2017 and I'm interviewing mrs. Marshall Hudson on the Ball State campus as part of the Ball State University African alumni oral history project so I'm going to start off with when and where you were born I was born in Muncie Indiana September 24th 1963 and can you tell me a little bit about your parents my parents I was raised here in Muncie my mom and my stepdad primarily though I was raised by my grandmother because my parents worked in manufacturing and due to their shift schedules my grandparents were the primary individuals that cared for the kids so I kind of feel like grandma was mom Wow I have parents so could you talk a little bit about your grandmother and your relationship with her yes I was the oldest of four children so I always considered myself my grandmother's child in a sense and a very loving and daring way of course so my grandmother was the head of the household in my grandparents house when I say head meaning while my grandpa was the breadwinner she stayed at home with the kids and ensured that the house was taken care of and we were fed bathed cared for if we were sick or anything like that so that's why grandma was like mom and in reality we called her mama okay because as a small child you kind of you tend to make those connections by way of touch feel loving moments and we never said grandma it was it was odd because she was the person you woke up and see you saw in the morning and the person you saw at night and who kissed your boo-boos and made you better made sure you were fed and bathed Wow my mom she's great they were working so she was mama and but I wasn't the only person they called her that not just my siblings you know there are people in our neighborhood so because we were you know kind of a close-knit family and the families were families to each family so sometimes we call other people's a grandma and it was just endearing it was the way you connected and everyone knew that you belonged so do you think that being raised by your grandma sort of instilled different values I even will would have experienced when you say different values I think I I'm a very much sometimes I call myself old-fashioned or I I did learn particular traits and behaviors from my grandparents while they came from the south and you know just even preparing of the meals or ensuring that things were taken care of and I don't know my grandma like I said if I don't hope I tear up here but that was mama to me or you know people say mom mother or whatever that was mama so what was might have been different a lot of times as I age now I always say well my grandma used to say my grandma used to say so yeah I think it was different in that she was a very caring affectionate Christian woman and I did pick up those traits I sit in the second pew with her at church for example and she was an usher so you know that made me feel not just special because I was her granddaughter and I was like you know the oldest so I got to do those things but I do know that the things that I did learn from my grandmother being kind to people never treating people differently respect those are some some things that you weren't just taught them they were given to you you it was a part of the fabric of your life and your upbringing so while your parents can do those same things grandmother grandparenting is different and I understand that now because I'm a grandma so I write you know so being raised by my grandparents sometimes I help take care of her but she wasn't and to me she wasn't old yes she was older but she wasn't like incapable of taking care of herself so it wasn't I mean that kind of situation but she was at home she had the apron she cooked the food she cleaned the kitchen so I think that's where I got my house cleaning skills ensuring that things were taken care of and in order I know I got that from my grandma yeah so you mentioned that your grandma was an usher in the church yes was religion a big part of your life growing up as a child well we went to church every Sunday Shafer Chapel AME and while it wasn't we were we were raised as Christians but we were Methodists that was it was Schaffer I am a African amethyst Episcopal we went to church every Sunday it was important to go to Sunday School and it was important to learn about Jesus Christ and yes my belief we were rooted and raised that way we didn't go to church seven days a week while I had friends that went to different recognized different denominations and so on but I think our church was there was a kind of a neighborhood church not the only Church in the neighborhood but that upbringing it was a sense of family so it was a part of you go to picnics there's church dinners we always say oh it's dinner after church because you get to eat other people's cooking you know and that was always interesting and fun and I say interesting because as you grow you go okay who cooked that who cooked this you know but a church was important because it was that sense of community again and everybody knew everybody for the most part so they knew who I belong to they knew who my siblings belong to you know so that part maybe you were always me felt safe and you learned a lot you sometimes you don't realize the kid the things you learn until you get older you remember certain things you remember in your childhood that what you're not supposed to that you're supposed to be quiet when the when they do certain things in church you know or you to be respectful or you're supposed to stand when people read a scripture I learned that from a very early age so would you say and this was in Muncie correct yeah this is Muncie Indiana so would you say that the church was sort of the social hub of the neighborhood yes absolutely absolutely church activities outside of school activities where they were probably second or third depending on you know your family dynamic or or things that you did so that was important you get up and it was kind of like the dress-up day you have your church clothes and your school clothes if you've ever heard something like that you know what you wear to school might be your jeans or sneakers or t-shirts or what have you but at church you you wore a dress and that's how it was raised you own the young lady's wear a dress and young men wear you know dress dress pants back then and you probably could wear a tennis shoes but my brother always had you know his little church shoes and that was always cool because you know when there was holidays you know you maybe got a new church outfit or what have you so that also led me to I love to dress up because you look forward to dressing up on Sunday so you mentioned food being a big part of the sort of church scene and as well as growing up in your grandma's house you mentioned that she cooked a lot so would you say that food was sort of an important tradition for you like culturally and socially well I think I think having food the aroma of food in your home the gathering of individuals it was food was always around and I think that still rings true today and even in my workplace if you've got food people show up you know or if you tell people at an event you know there's gonna be food I didn't say the word free they always show up so in in my grandmother's house yeah absolutely food was a time where we gathered and you chat and we talked we said we had a big dining room table and my grandfather who also worked in manufacturing there were times that he sat at the table and he'd eat his dinner because of what's shift he worked then the kids would sit around the table and we all had our own favorite chair but we used to like we fight over good to sit in his chair and you'd swing your feet under the table kick each other make jokes but it was our time to have fun or oh can I have that piece of chicken or can i well you're not gonna get your potatoes or I don't want that you can have this it was that time to have fun also because my grandmother lived kind of at not at it was a dead end but there's another neighborhood kind of a adjacent to it when you get off the bus or you're walking home you could smell what was being cooked in the neighborhood you don't hear unless it's the barbecue or I guess or something like that you don't have that sense of oh I can't wait to get home cuz we can smell what she's cooking right and the first thing you walk it as a kid and I don't I don't think this has anything with my age or anything kids still do the same thing when they walk in the door where do you go first the kitchen right okay so you know what I see that that that has nothing to do with generations okay but food was that opportunity Christmastime at Thanksgiving or at Easter while I've moved away from some of those because you know yep I want to eat smarter and healthier that was that time you look forward to certain dishes you know that were only made at Christmas time or certain pies or cake that were only made during Easter or Thanksgiving or even New Year's whatever whatever holiday it was in holidays food and that's still true today yeah could you tell me a little bit about your relationship with your siblings their names and everything yeah well I'm the oldest and then I have one brother his name was Frederick and he's rich Reiko say was he's still around I have my next sister with singleton she went by a nickname of Becky long story we won't get into it but that was her nickname and then I my baby sister was windy so three girls one boy so he had it rough I'm in a good way and what was your relationship like with you three siblings I was the oldest so I had I had to do everything right now that that wasn't always true but I was the oldest so you know I was supposed to as you're growing up well you're the oldest you know you're you've got to set the the standards or you're the role model with the exception of my brother and I because we're only one year apart as we I was kind of a tomboy and he would say yes he sure was but anything he could do I could do better it was one of those I've always I'm not competitive in that sense but with my brother it was like this well he's got it all the girls have to come in maybe the boys didn't for maybe additional ten minutes and I was one of those I'm one of those young women or young kids like well why I I'm smarter than him I can I can I can beat up his friends or what have you why does he get to stay out right or what have you so or I can ride a bike faster than he can I can beat him in a 50-yard dash you know whatever so we kind of went back and forth and to this day he still cost me his little sister only because I'm shorter than he is and second he goes he always wanted to be my big sister I'm like I am your big sister but now I'm older I mean you go wherever you want just don't call me old so we kind of went back and forth but we were we were we were born the same month so for 20 days of the month we were both born in September he's September 4th and I'm 24 so for 20 days of the month we were the same age so as I understand it family members would say they used to think you guys were twins and we're like we're not twins no while they say we look alike and as we get older maybe I could see it a little bit when we were that those those 20 days he tell everybody we're twins well we're in school or you know when we're in elementary you like yeah that's my twin sister and I'm like I'm not older than you you know this is same kind of kids sibling rivalries so and then my middle sister I think she truly is a middle child while I loved her she was probably that middle child things had to be different you know my baby sister was the baby sister she was the one that by the time you got to high school or junior senior all the rules had changed you know we can't date till you're you know 16 or 17 oh she had a boyfriend at 14 you know so you know I was the oldest so I had to be role model so to speak while I didn't understand it then because I'm just like I'm just the kid but okay I get it now so other than the church that you were involved in were there any other organizations or activities that was important to you as a kid as a kid Wow we did a few things besides Church it was associated with school events I was in 4h for a little while let me just let me be clear for a very short while I went to a summer camp I did that once I'm not an outdoors person Wow I loved playing outside until I realized I didn't like it does that make sense like I don't I don't like bugs and birds I do not I don't like getting dirty and I'm not a germaphobe or anything like that is this but at one time I do remember I did all of those things but to be perfectly clear the outdoor activities were not at the top of my list as I aged other activities Church I keep going back to that but it I mean I did things in school like you know some word was kind of all sport or all grades participated in sports and I was in like in a science club in the seventh grade and I was a cheerleader a few years was it eighth ninth and tenth grade so some clubs little small clubs in school but so I was shy and nobody believes that now I really was I'm serious you have to go back and find those people way back then now nobody believes I'm shy so since you were more of kind of enjoyed like indoor activities me being by yourself were you a big reader actually yes I was a big I liked reading and I liked writing I did Girl Scouts - I'm sorry and I actually liked Girl Scouts until we did that one camping trip so I think I my grandmother used to say that I would take a notebook or a book that she didn't want anymore and I would just write circles or just trace the letters I used to like to color and it had to be in the lines and I always wanted to enter coloring contest that were in the news so I enjoyed I would I did some summer programs where he had to read so many books and you earn a a prize so I did those kind of things yes so right I I practice writing my name in every style I could possibly do I even did calligraphy as I got older so I enjoyed those kind of things so maybe I was I would never consider myself a nerd but to some kids you know then I think I was that I tell people now I'll write for you I'm not gonna go you know like cook a meal so could you tell me a little bit about your elementary school was the name of it and the name of my own is Longfellow Elementary and it still is in existence today I went to Longfellow from kindergarten to fifth grade and that was fun it was I for five blocks maybe six blocks from my grandmother's house so we walked to school I remember when you used to get let out of school to go home for lunch and then go back to school for the afternoon my kids think I'm really ancient when I tell him that story what it what and I go yeah I was probably up until maybe first or second grade and just think we walked home to get lunch and then walk back to school that's like unheard o today so that was always fun and you did it you did it with your friends you always had that group of friends that lived on the same street or the same block as you and then we all would walk back to school and then when that that changed we started bringing our lunch and my grandma that was another thing you know making your lunch and having that treat in there reisi couple is my grandma's treat so it's better Easi cup in your lunch and two that was kind of special and or you like peanut butter and jelly or let's say a BLT or something like that those are kind of cool besides the standards you know abalone or a ham sandwich or what have you so I remember those things that's being meat and I was like I said I was that kid that liked to write and draw and I was in and I was in a third grade advanced experiment of course and I don't remember the name of it but what was cool about it at the time I don't think it was so cool because I had in class with these older kids so I was like third to sixth grade so to put third graders and sixth graders together and they were the kids that did well in school and they achieved good grades so we were put in and so we had like I don't know like a I don't know what the class would be called today like an experience or learning opportunities we would do projects you do like extra site you do science projects that weren't done in the typical there are four fifth sixth grade classes or projects so something like one kid they would build houses out of cardboard boxes and make just like mini architecture classes but they are all the materials is what the teacher brought in and they do those kind of things and there was one kid that you know did things with birds and things like that I think I was more though look not the artsy person but I'd like to write and maybe draw and when I say draw it's more drawing lines and things of that nature but I was that reading or writing kid you know it was always cool cuz I think gosh they built a dollhouse out of a big box that used to have I don't know you know food products in it but they were very meticulous and they built the furniture so we'd have these and they were and I think it was an experience or opportunity I don't remember if it went on the next year but it was kind of neat so I interacted with kids that were 10 or 11 or 12 while I was just 9 I I know my parents had to probably sign a note but it was an opportunity but only the children that were selected were the kids that were excelled in their academic studies so do you feel like that experience of being in that sort of experience would you call it maybe a gifted and talented it would be but it was just yeah they didn't title it then uh-huh but like I said as I don't remember if it went on so would you say that kind of cultivated more your love of reading and writing and did that follow you into the high school absolutely yeah absolutely so you felt you know you felt I don't know if I'd even thought of it as an honor but you knew that oh you got to do this as another kid didn't while that's challenging and you know that grade level but you thought oh wow why do they pick me oh you got good grades you got good marks you know your report card was you know all good great so they selected you now that was a challenge because you're dealing with older kids so they're maybe we didn't call it bullying back then but you know when you have girls 11 20 and 11 and 12 I really I look back at it now and go you know I was probably being bullied and I didn't know it so moving on to your high school years would you say that you continued to be sort of interested in maybe like English and art and those sorta actually I I was one of those kids and my sister-in-law's similar they'd like to diagram sentences nobody does that anymore but we enjoyed doing that so I enjoyed a lot of my English classes in high school math up to about you know second year of algebra but then I kind of like I mean I moved to business math and that kind of I that kind of set the path laid the path way for me to say I want to do something business-wise in school so it did it did really impact my decisions and besides the classes you were required to take I don't know if we call them electives back then but the courses that you get to choose I would pick classes more and you know in line with that type of what I assumed would be that type of work that's available to me I graduate you know from high school and what was the name of your high school in let's seize control and I know speaking of your interest in business that you worked you actually worked with BSU at the cooperative office education program could you talk a little bit of actually um you had to be a junior or senior in high school and to kind of apply to be in that program similar to if you remember deca or there was think they call it a different program now there was one there was another program but see Oh II was cooperative office education and those students who did well in don't even laugh when I say this typing I took shorthand that took business-related courses and had an interest he kind of did it at the fill Kerry was the coordinator of the program back then he interviewed you and so it was selection but if you showed interest and he wanted to do this so you'd go to school your first three or four classes in the morning and then you would be released from school I don't know if it was 11:30 or 12:30 and then you'd go to where you were placed he would go out and vet these organizations who were willing to have high school students come in and have an office experience and that was kind of cool because you know you get a little paycheck you know but you got your credit and myself went in a couple other ladies young ladies or girls we were kids you know we got Ball State so I'm coming out to this campus first time being in like real in any of the buildings and I went to the placement office which is no longer here it would be what you call now Career Services and could you talk a little bit about what you did in that job and whether it was a positive experience for you well first it was intimidating because it was all these excuse me old ladies and I was the youngest kid on the block all right and of course I knew that but there is kind of like having like seven or eight mothers in a room right and my job was basic office assistant work filing alphabetizing papers well I remember that was unique about that position is we did filing parties when they couldn't find someone's file and this is individuals who had graduated from the university and when it was time to apply for a job the companies or the individual will request their credentials and we were to make photocopies of those and packaged them up to mail to various companies can you imagine how that happened manually and we had filing cabinets at least 20 30 filing cabinets we worked with microfiche I had to transcribe transcripts from microfiche I actually ran across David Letterman's transcript I can't remember the lady who was on it was another TV show oh gosh it'll come to me later I heard transcript and I I can see her face it's gonna bug me now so I'm going as a you know I'm in 12th grade going I didn't know him at time he didn't mean anything really at the time his name but a few other name they were telling me about it was like I don't like watch late-night TV so we had these filing parties we'd come in and they go I guess okay filing party and you're like what's a filing party they bring in doughnuts or whatever and we'd have to go through every five cuz what had happened is somebody filed somebody's documents wrong Oh we'd eventually find it but it was I just remember filing party and I would have stacks of file 30 40 50 100 files people pull them out and you put him on this table and they would just stack up so guess what my job was to file them all back or if someone's looking for something I'd go through somebody's outlets in box out boxes this is how I learned working in an office so it was a fun experience I learned about the ladies that work there and there I went I learned that I oh I go to school with your son oh you own this business in the city of Muncie and they would just tell me things about children and families and marriages and so I just had like a big office of mothers I used to say that I got a big office of mothers here so other than that were you involved in any other organizations or activities or anything like that like I said I was a cheerleader the first two years of high school then si si I'm like see Oh II outside of that I don't know High School's cliquish as they still are so you had your group of friends and we would you know we didn't do a whole lot you know I had a boyfriend you know nice ones have more friends over sixteen but you know everybody okay he's a friend and he's a boy okay well you know that's how you feel he's a friend he's a boy so outside of that I was just focused on my studies I thought it was fun one class I didn't like was history I like history now at the time the teacher I had and blesses so he's passed he made history the worst class I've ever taken in my whole life because he read the book to you so you said in class and here you are 15 well 16 or 17 and there he's just reading this big book and we had this big book that you take home every now and then but all he do is just read it to us kind of find out you know some of that history wasn't accurate but anyway so and then we get this test over that was a class where we all come here we go to mr. blanks class and this is what happened so so I did things like that so I also worked at school it wasn't a job that you got paid for but like a teacher's assistant and that was cool once again filing assisting with things that are dis organizing papers I've always been that kind of person or those skills came easy to me or I enjoyed doing things of that nature so while I wasn't the outdoors kid I wouldn't like I said kids were cliquish and oh and there were probably bullying in high school I don't think I was a bully in high school cuz I had two sisters and I was the big sister so if anybody said anything to one of my sisters they better know they can't say anything to my sisters now I am the shortest I am the shortest but I was pretty mighty so I think I got that strength character from my mom so they'd go like this that's Marshalls little sister like this so not that I was a big bad anything but it was just knowing we stuck together you know so and I think that was that was something I do remember and you think about that when you're older then we were like three peas in a pod as sisters my brother was there but you know it was like the Allen girls you know and they were the legal so they were the XYZ girls I'm gonna rattle all these people's names but you knew the people in the school that were siblings so you know those siblings you know so so I always did things like that I would you know I would volunteer in the office or do things and things like that I had AI accounting was one of my favorite subjects and I still what accounting was and it probably was bookkeeping but it was called accounting in high school I still connect with that teacher to this day so they've kind of laid the foundation of the things that I like to do so I know you were really close with your grandmother and he said that you were like three peas in a pod with your sisters and you also worked with a lot of like really good women yeah so would you say that those kind of strong female relationships that you built had an influence on you absolutely they that was that was something that was probably structured around me and I didn't even know it why my grandmother was the nurturing loving caring person all the women that I interacted with in those workplaces helped strengthen my own personal character my mother is a very strong woman she was a take no miss kind of person but she she didn't back down and I I think I get I always joke right now I'm only 5 foot 2 but if I got something to say I'm gonna say why and I still who I said I still say I was shy back then because I was I really was but I found my voice and sometimes I have to find my place among the crowds of individuals who move forward so I think they shaped my spirit in general in my belief and confidence in myself so they were quite impactful the ladies at church why they were oral orderly and kind and loving they still you know there's a method to their madness so to speak and then I go and work in this environment with what I call the elder ladies I still laugh now I know I'm the old lady now guys they they were it was now I will admit they were kind of these I don't know they were all matronly but you know you know wife mother kids kind of thing and I was like I'm gonna be a career person I'm not gonna be bottle necked down with this kind of stuff you know that's just what you old people do I'm not gonna stay in Muncie you know okay never mind that's for it so would you say that working in the COA program made you want to go to Ball State after you graduated high school yeah absolutely absolutely I wanted to know more about the the university I wanted to be engaged in that culture and of course my goal was to pursue my education beyond high school so what year did you graduate high school I graduate in 1982 and after high school you didn't move on to higher education right away not right away I I was actually working two part-time jobs there was when I was outside of c OE which was associated with school so there was only like three to four hours after school only during the weekday everybody in our neighborhood got a job at a fast-food restaurant because that was like your money okay your play money it was just her play money if you want a new pair of sneakers or or should I say the sneakers that were in style at the time or a pair of jeans that was everybody had to have that pair of jeans so I worked at McDonald's I tell everyone everybody's working McDonald's and they say why would we want to do that because if your customer service cannot be taught anywhere else until you work in an environment such as it doesn't have to be McDonald's on camera I said but I learned a lot of things there as well from the business it's not the food side business and I said how things are handled managing people and systems those pieces of how I even interact with people or my communication still skills were also shaped from working in a fast-paced environment like that and the funny part is many people in our neighborhood in our high school everybody worked at one of those places when you were 16 or 17 because you wanted your own spin money right we like to go skating or go to the dance at school or some event but we had our own spending money if you got an allowance in your family that's great but if you had a part-time job that was even better because you could go out and buy you know Vidal Sassoon jeans or something like that I know if I say that now people don't look or Calvin Klein Jeans why they still exist but then they were like super expensive right you're in a family of four they're not gonna buy all everybody those jeans right or converse which now they cost let's some crazy amount and it was cool too to get the first you know whenever it was lying on those so that was another real important part of the fabric that kind of built turned me into Who I am so I've always been one too while I was graduated in 82 I was proud I probably started working in 81 maybe 80 just part-time just doing something I did things in the neighborhood to like to roll roller set I was never into fact doing anyone's hair but even if the roller set with the clip rolls you grew up I never knew I was time I and I get paid maybe a dollar or two dollars to go roller set the ladies at the church they're here I didn't babysit I didn't think that was funny I didn't ever enjoy that but roller said they're here or help them do something at their house or my grandma always said you know miss so-and-so needs this and she goes you and do that for she goes yeah and when you're done she'd say honey here and here you get 50 cents or a dollar so I did those kind of little things so Ernie money was I've learned that at an early age my grandpa always said nothing is free in life so we are and don't spend your money frivolously learn to save but everything has a cost so I remember those and why it was saying it I ain't know what you're talking about I'm just trying to go buy me some M&Ms or you know a Pepsi or coke back then right you know or something cool like I got I can buy back potato chips some Eminem's Anna soda you know that way you're balling back then right but uh so those are some of the other pieces that you know as we sit here and talk today is like all that clicks back sometimes you sit and we reminisce friends of mine and we do that and go do you remember such-and-such you're like the neighborhood store or you'd get ten pennies and you go back ten pieces of candy my kids look at me like I am a relic when I say that I go we had a neighborhood store and you'd go do that we you know a soda pop used to be a quarter you know like what like yeah that same can used to be a quarter you know so anyway so while you were working these part-time jobs and kind of doing odd jobs around the neighborhood were you also pursuing your associates degree well the part-time job that was in high school okay then I start taking classes a year probably out of high school I mean when I was out of high school I worked at McDonald's for still a little while they actually even offered me a assistant manager job but I knew that's not the feel I wanted to work in but that told me something about myself because they sit down with the your work ethic you know your abilities and to select me out of all these people while I that was an honor at that age that's not what I wanted to do it I'm going to I said no I'm going to school you know and so then I got in somebody retired and had to leave the placement office and Doris Edwards she's deceased I think there's an award named after her here at Ball State but she encouraged me to apply she said it's just you know you can work and you know maybe go to school or maybe work this job part-time or whatever but it was a full-time job I thought it's a piece of cake I can do this alright I'll do this for a little while you know and I'd fall in love by then right okay so you know you know okay let's rewind Madness let's not rewind that but so I applied for the job and of course I got the job and not realizing what I've done you know other than you kind of know I'll be honest with you I know when I got when I can do something I can and so that was a great opportunity yet you know it opened up a whole can of worms in the sense of oh my goodness I'm here I'm working and I said I want to go to school well how am I gonna do that oh wow and I got to go talk to a counselor I've got to fill out an application so I can get in ball state well all these people around me they were helping me there was John Reed and John Wright who worked in placement office in a Glenn Rosenthal he was the director at the time each of those individuals sitting with me and counseled me on what to do and the pathway to go and who to talk to and what you're looking for I had you I could and I could knock on any other doors and ask a question any time so that was an opportunity that I while I probably took it for granted at the time it made it was a major impact and it helped so I would take a class at a time those quarters so I don't know you weren't around when they had quarters but we take a class one class at a time while working and starting a family and having a husband still a piece of cake to me you know like I can do this right well you know it got to be challenging at other times I'm a busy body so to speak maybe that's not the right word but I like to be engaged at all times and I realized that even to this day even now I still have a hundred things I need to do yesterday but I took it all in stride because I didn't believe there was no you can't do it so while earning your degree in working and balancing a family at everything like that what would you say was your greatest support system during my my grandmother while I hear the stories of the expenses of child care and the challenges I didn't have that because my grandmother was my rock even before I got married and got my own place my grandmother was my rock I get off of work my grandmother had dinner fixed my grandma that was mama okay it's like so everything and then it's interesting that the placement office knew when my grandma call they go your grandmother's on the phone and she was always hello sweetie its Marshall there you know or can I speak to Marshall so they all knew her so you know and sometimes she'd fix additions they take that to work with you you know so that was she was my rock you know if anything went wrong I'd cry on her shoulder she said it's gonna be okay sweetie we're gonna say a prayer and you just keep him you know you keep moving she's pregnant say it that way she just said you can wake up tomorrow and it'll be okay and she was right and do you think the administration and the advising you receive from Ball State at that time also helped you sort of sort of kind of because as a non-traditional student I don't know if I knew I was a non-traditional student it path wise the advisors weren't as helpful and maybe because I didn't come in as a traditional student so I had asked more questions but at the first advisor that I really remember and I say that because it was in North quad and you kind of got bounced around it was a whole different structure than it is today I remember the one advisor saying well you know what you're a black woman you need to go into operations or engineering or something like that and I'm looking anyway why would you say that this was a black man too and I was like why did you say that and he goes well there's lots of opportunity it's a field that has scarce you know it's scarce the scarcity there is there you it's wide open for you all right but I don't want to do that but I don't know this is and you should take these classes he never asked me what do you want to do what do you enjoy where you see yourself he never asked those questions I walked out of his office quite irritated so from that point on I learned to read the catalogue because I worked in the placement office and they recur counselors they would help me read the catalogue so I know what classes I need to take I never went back to his office I still know him to this day I go and I still don't want to do what you don't you know but he didn't look at it that way and I I think I understand now why he was doing it but that's not and he was looking at making more money and you know forging ahead as a as a black woman and these things but you need to find out what this black woman wants and what she want to do you know don't categorize me based on where there's not a lot of people that look like me you have to find out where my sincere interests are and so that was kind of a negative experience on accounts like hmm did you have any other experiences whether with administration or professors or other students of kind of categorizing you based on your race or gender no I had had one counselors pretty rough and I know her to this day and we're we're good friends now but it was yet rule of 9 or you have to take these classes you take these classes and that's it no exception you have two passes this is a prereq and that's how it goes okay next I was like what just happened here do you even know my name to the I know her right now and I've interacted with her on some other occasions while she's not in she's retired for the University we talked and she you know what she probably she didn't remember she sided I'll be honest with you Marchand remember back then because it was so Richmond and Mike I had you know things I had to do and get the students through and so I never got that from any advisor so I didn't use the advisors the way I recommend my daughter and my son to use advisors in a in a collegiate setting all right I didn't I told I didn't have it I said we followed that book which now is online you know catalog of courses and you know what did I do that I'm with the guidance of a supervisor or another colleague and my offices the offices I've worked in that's how I did it so when you non-traditional maybe I'm I'm out I'm an outlier somewhere but I still had professionals individuals that had already attained their degree or they were affiliated with University so they were like my guides not in the cab but not in the counseling since in a counseling role so Ball State has sort of a reputation I guess you could say of being maybe a little conservative maybe a little insular so was that your experience I'll say in like the mid 80s in the mid honest with you in the mid 80s I probably didn't recognize it as much because I had a different focus I didn't live on campus I I was what I thought I was a grown woman a mother and a wife and a daughter and a granddaughter so I came to work I studied in the evening or on the weekends I did things with family then I came back to work so semester quarters or semesters went by quickly because I was always busy I didn't engage a lot as an undergrad and well until near the end excuse me with a lot of other students because there either I felt I was well I was older I was older and Mike's my experiences were different so I I probably operated more as a full-time employee than I did student life so not the typical I'm going to school and that's all I'm doing and they're just working a part-time job no I did it full-time all the way I was a full-time employee all throughout my college career did that ever feel isolating it all to you maybe not being as involved in like peer activity sometimes sometimes I would like and while I was the doors were open to participate I didn't feel like I would be welcomed or it would be comfortable and my schedule probably wouldn't fit the times when they did other activities my undergrad I did join a business fraternity Phi Gamma nu here at Ball State and it was a great experience while I was still a non-traditional I think there was maybe one other non-traditional in there with me dr. Nash singer and there was I can't remember who our other faculty advisors were they were very encouraging and it was a great opportunity I stayed engaged just like I would anything else and I got voted secretary and then they wanted me to be the vice president so because that's the kind of dedication I had to it while sometimes they go out and do things that no I'm not gonna do that you know the parties and some of those things I would participate in events that worked within my schedule and have fun and sometimes I go beyond the schedule so I would be included and to make a more cohesive type of situation for all I did that and had a great time and everyone was great but I was they also seen me as somebody as a resource because I was a full time employee so that worked out to be really good we did a scavenger hunt one night and wow I feel like I was old doing it the students didn't that didn't faze them maybe I felt it on the inside that I'm older but they they didn't I was on a team and we had to you know do something finding things in and around campus and that was cool so it made me think wow if I'd have done this differently yeah things would have been different but I also believe in everybody's situation there's not going to be the same and this is what God designed for yours so far Gaiman knew you mentioned is a professional business fraternity yeah it's a business attorney and I know a business yeah and I know that it is kind of divided into professional social and philanthropic work so do you think that having that kind of diverse experience of different activities in your fraternity better prepared you for your career absolutely I think it continued to build my confidence with established connections and it helped me in my workplace because I was also hiring students at the time so it had it had many impacts in that respect and it did help I learned from the students how students think that is those students that were traditional students as well as interacting with them and learning I don't know how they manage their lives haven't managed their studies how how you persuade individuals that their focus is just school and then outside of school you know they have fun and do these kind of things that it's like going onto a bigger high school in a sense but we're more responsibility and you're more accountable so working with students I was working like and I was working like two sides of the fence and that was interesting and I established connections and friendships along the way started working with students in that sense sort of make you want to work in a university setting or with students absolutely yeah and I think that probably solidified you know some of the roles that I took on as well as the level of comfortableness in doing some of the tasks working with students it's always been not just an interest but an opportunity to share and learn and I always tell students I've learned from you just like you learn from me and as I said the goal is we just continue to learn from each other so were you a part of Phi Gamma knew while you were going for your associates degree no bachelor's okay so what year did you achieve your associate's degree associate degree was 95 and bachelor's degree was 2000 no I'm sorry 98 I'm ahead of myself and then the master's degree in 2000 and what were each of those degrees in my associate was it was called like mid-management my associate degree my bachelor's degree was management with an emphasis and Human Resources HR and my master's was in Oh PCD they I don't think that track is they've changed name of that track now it's organizational and professional communication development and did you have a specific sort of path in mind while you were getting those three degrees as far as what you wanted absolutely business and management was my focus so the Masters which I kind of had conversations with various faculty that what I wanted to do in a master's program I had to go back and ask myself and what I enjoyed doing communicating verbally or written or engaging in opportunities where I mean constantly engaging with people so I went I communication track while some encouraged me to go get my MBA I didn't know you think that's what I wanted to do and I said I hate statistics guys while you still have to take this course in the master's program in that field as well the communication side is where I wanted to take it a bit further to you know explore and strengthen strengthen some of the skills I had acquired through the College of Business and it kind of really took it really put me where I was comfortable and I and I'm still friends with some of my faculty from them and actually work on projects now or in non-profit situations with individuals in that program so were there any professors or maybe courses in particular that really had a lasting impact on you while you were pursuing that which one which degree any of them well HR um there there there was my focus dr. Montague no doctor Hornsby nagging or uh dr. Harris I mean I worked in the College of Business my office was in the College of Business so we were like well a big family so to speak while I was in their classes I worked and it's called you know it was a computer competency then so we actually hired and staffed many computer labs across campus general lab facilities software was installed and laughs not like it's done today so I work with those faculty from a lab perspective but I also sat in their classes those I would take a night class and take a class on my lunch hour so we were we were constantly engaging in having conversation and I was doing my heart I could just walk down the hall if I hey I had this problem with this assignment and I could walk down the hall and have a conversation with dr. Hornsby or whoever it was you know that was my instructor so I actually had a lot of great advantages by pursuing my education that way while emaii had its challenges you know from the family and work-life balance I also had another great perk that other people didn't have so it worked out for Marshall so you mentioned working the computer competency program and I know that Ball State really has an emphasis on sort of integrating technology in the classroom even today so were you sort of a witness to Wow yes his computer comp it was lab competency computer competency university computing services now its unified technology support with i TS and so on so yes so I've been a part of all of that had as it has evolved you know I was around when they were dis this size you know in a computer and the printouts and you know with the perforated edges and so on and then the old apples were you know they were orange and green and I watch all that I was a part of it I was I set up equipment we ordered equipment we installed software we trained the students and graduate students so I was involved every aspect from a lab perspective and how the labs across this campus have evolved and changed over time so business is not typically a very diverse field and not a very a field where a lot of women have sort of high authority positions did you always feel like you were respected working in these environments well I respect I think to give respect to get respect first of all and second the roles that I've had the opportunity to be in I've always had some sort of leadership type of responsibility excuse me management or support with exception and even with the starting out as an office assistant you know I kind of forged away my way through how to you know where they filed everything first or you know finish my test I think it's challenging in the business world now we're in 2017 yes a lot of things have changed but maybe the job that I was in and I was in technology okay men dominated right and and they while they still do in it but it has changed over the time I've watched that changed it was a male-dominated field for the upper management the area were from a lab management that's where I started at it was mostly women with exception of the technical people were guys with exception of if there were two if there were two you're doing really good that were women so respecting what I did I managed people that's what I did I ensured facilities were covered I ensured the students were trained I had ensured that they knew their rules I had to maintain security ensuring things were opened and closed and those kind of things so I think I've always had keys to something right so I was kind of seen I was probably a high level administrative assistant coordinator type of role while the titles were different and that each person in each area those were the type of roles that I had so respect for what I did well we were unique on campus still you know to to manage lab there was at least one computer lab and each academic building on campus until they added the computer labs in the residence halls and sometimes there were two at facilities so that was a challenge because I had I said I don't had to interview kids walking right in out of high school or those came who knew more tonight it when it come down to programming a computer or understanding applications so that was always interesting because I'm hiring these kids and they're gonna leave her and get better jobs in me all right so the respect the respect was there because they knew what I was like I had to learn what I had to do but I was confident in that and I had supportive leadership I think that's probably the biggest thing but the men were in charge so to speak and I look at that today and is like yeah there's always been a male director there's always been the male VP over that area it's always been that way and it still is so were you involved besides your fraternity were you involved in any other organizations while you were here at Ball State I was a student Sherm remember and that Society of human society human resource management I received even in a scholarship while I was a student sure member so that was kind of cool the women in those fields outside of those activities college wise I just attended events on campus but like I said I was married with children so those were I definitely did the Sherman because I HR was my emphasis so I wanted to be engaged and in that process and I went to went on to pursue my certification in that field and that was a senior professional human resource management so I did that as well so I stayed engaged I participated in that program and we traveled and did a kind of a case study one at one time we went all the way to Cleveland while I still was kind of like the older person in the group but I was part of the team that our that the HR program sent that was another opportunity so I'll tell you that I did some there was or minimal and the grand scheme of thing scheme but that school was just a part of my life why and it was a goal but it wasn't what I did 100 percent of the time so after you graduated in 2000 what was your master's degree in communication it was organizational professional professional communicate communication yeah so after you graduated in 2000 what did you move on to do as far as your career path actually when I graduated I think I had to remember now see I'm getting old I was or I took on the role coordinator of the general computer labs in UTSA and that was supervising full-time to have graduate assistant and students and managing all the labs on campus including the labs and the residents area from there I went on to be my next professional role was workforce development coordinator in UCS and then I went on to be I'm currently now the system director and unified technologies for could you tell me a little bit more about that as far as what you do in your job and my current position my current position my job is to manage and oversee the customer service marketing and management of the tech center what is referred to the Tech Center located in Bracken library first floor that's where we're located today so and when I say that it's specific units that I am currently in charge of the concierge desk tech time support where the students assisting students with their computer challenges also I oversee the computer labs so while they have management I oversee the management the computer labs and and I also managed the person who's in charge of all of our marketing and communication within the unit and did you know that you wanted to sort of stay in Muncie and stay within Ball State after you graduated was that your plan or did it just sort of follow yes that was not my plan in my head and I rolled into it I evolved remember remember I said something early on my grandmother was my rock yeah I would always say that's probably my state of Lindsey if Ida said there was one reason I stayed in Muncie it was my grandma my siblings moved all of them moved out of state and I was here so guess when you got a call or check on some might call Marshall she's there Marshall is there a night for a little I was like wait a minute now you know somebody else need to do these jobs you know but I was here because of my grandma I knew it I was like it's she's not gonna move with me right so I'm staying here with her and everyone I think at my old family knew that so would you say that even though you were so motivated in terms of your your education and your career and your leadership and everything would you say that family remains sort of your number one priority how about family today is my number one primary I will that is first and work but God's first then my family and then my work and that's and that is the absolute order and having having lived in Muncie pretty much your whole life and don't tell anybody that you say that you have sort of a unique perspective in terms of the way that the city as well as the campus has changed over time yeah yeah and in my view in my opinion is that Ball State was always this island okay and then there was Muncie so months he was kind of ball state once he was around built on Ball State was built inside of Muncie does that make sense so you didn't come out to Ball State unless you worked here there's an activity that you were or an event you were attending should I say so a lot of my friends they come out maybe to a party maybe to a program at immens or something unique that they participated in high school or another organization but or you'd cut through Ball State but when you left ball stage you went to your community wherever you lived or you grew up as a Muncie resident so it looked like you like here's Ball State and you know you kind of have to be invited in or have something to do there so that's kind of how I look when I use the kid and we're going through campus maybe for some reason we turned and went down McKinley or Riverside or something you just go all these tall buildings not downtown like I guess it doesn't look like Chicago so I don't know looking downtown that way but you'd come through Ball State I was like oh wow I'm working one of those tall buildings right around the kid that wrote and write and I'm gonna be you know one of these lady managers that you saw on TV and I'm gonna be in a skyscraper that's definitely what I'm gonna do when I grow up right so the taller buildings here on campus I learned the tallest building was teachers cause and I didn't want to be a teacher not in the sense of a teacher because I currently teach a course in the management department I just don't want to do elementary though anyone these little kids you know that I didn't that was that means in germs right okay that was the reason my friends always tell me that was the only reason she can't be but so yeah it was kind of that's kind of how it was so you you hear people say oh you work at Ball State it was a place in the city with the exception of manufacturing places and that are no longer here Ball State was the other place with the oh the best paying jobs or they have the best benefits in the city ball Hospital which is now IU ball that was another place in the city so those are like the big companies that you would if you got a job in those companies you'd have good benefits some longevity retirement you don't even think about retirement back then you know but those were those companies excluding the manufacturing environments I never wanted to do that because I was not one you could tell what to do can you tell right like no I don't want to get I don't know they're not gonna tell me what to do that seems like work that you know yeah I don't know okay I can't do that that would work and I wasn't going in the Armed Forces because that does people yelling at you not gonna happen I don't work well under those circumstances can you tell I was gonna have to be a leader I was gonna have to be the person that managed thing so those fields were like mm-hmm like no no I'm gonna go somewhere where I like I love to dress up all right I love to learn okay and I wanted to be in a professional environment well where else in the city it was Boston this I banking in those kind of areas but yeah didn't wanna do that even so you mentioned before that your parents worked in manufacturing yes so was it sort of an untraditional word yeah it was a sort of like a non-traditional path for you to go on to higher education and go into the business field as a place of doing something like I guess you could say that and I didn't view it that way because that's what I wanted to do and that's when our parents wanted us to do to go on and pursue our education beyond high school of course but I was the first one and my parents wine my mom only had one other brother but so out of four kids I was the first from my mother grandmother I'm not sure if there were any so I was the first so and to lead that charge or the first I was the one I was the first one so simple I was the first one of her kids to get a college education it was not really important to you I think I didn't sink it seemed like it was gonna happen but as I look back at it I was just I was just determined that that's what I wanted I knew I could do it the other were hard classes and there were many sleepless nights but that was it was a I'm goal-oriented and if you tell me I can't because I'm a young black girl from the Whitely community I'm gonna tell you that's where I'm from does not dictate what I can do and that's all I needed my grandma always told me that anybody doesn't matter where you from it's what you do so we are don't let that ever be a crutch did you ever feel like people maybe underestimated your abilities absolutely could you talk a little bit about that especially yeah you're going to school you got kids you're married you can't go to you can't do that or you can't be a good mother and do that you can't be a good wife and do those things you know that was like fuel to my fire was let me tell you I can do all three or four and not blinking I know I wasn't perfect but saying I can't do it wasn't an option no I'm not like I'm not superwoman but to say oh you can only be this and I took it two ways that's what you just tell me young women I was always told don't go to school to get a mr mrs degree and I first time I heard that I was like this what is that oh you know young girls go to schools they get married really where do they do that well I learned after reading the articles and watching movies and different things I was like oh I guess that is a culture people do things like that that wasn't even thought I was never raised to do something like that you don't do that that's not why you went to school or that's not why you went to work I my independence and my confidence in myself just didn't I didn't think that way okay I was programmed differently okay so I just didn't I don't understand people to do that I would have cousins and say you can't do that and be a good mom or you Heidi or how do you do it and I would go how do you not so I'd have some I'd bump heads with some cousins here we go I don't know how you're doing that well you pick up a book and it's gone reading oh yes I could be sarcastic at times but I think the more you challenge me the more it just like I said it was just like adding fuel to that it was like full speed ahead did you have any role models in your life I know your mom obviously it worked in manufacturing whether in your real life or maybe in the media or anything like that who kind of gave you an example of a woman who was doing having a family and going to school and work absolutely and I hope I don't cry when I talk about this she's still living today in one of my positions at Ball State it was after I left the placement office I went on to work in what is its Special Collections what it is now it's called archives yes thank you archives and Special Collections and my supervisor was Dave Tambo he went on to move on to California to teach out in Southern California he was never an Indiana guy didn't ever say because he was just he was a great guy but anyway he hired me and it was still kind of office assistant work but it was unique and I had no clue what I was gonna be doing here well there was a position description still kind of vague and then his assistant was a lady by the name of Nancy Turner and then there was a ga and a couple other interns so I walk in that first day I have no quote I'm gonna be doing some finally again I was pretty good at filing alrighty yeah this is pretty good and I can do basic answering a phone so those kind of things as you piece cake like those are like no-brainers to me being good customer service representative piece of cake where I've worked in fast food I helped in the church and I worked just looking doing little things with my grandma she taught me how to always be kind and respectful of people so that was like easy to me so I go into this office and I'm going I don't know what I'm gonna be doing here and he would teach us techniques of preserving materials and we learned about the end of the documents they rescued from the courthouse cool about these things so it was it was a history lesson but anyway so as I'm going through this ayah this great supervisor and Dave is just this kind of unique guy he was an archivist at the time I had no clue really what that was I had a bad day one day with family just life in general and I was really upset my his take I think I was taking a class at that time and I came to work just just having you know you just had bad days and I forget how the whole day went but she said she sit down with me and we talked and not that I was gonna give up but I was just having one those days like I just you know I just want to quit and sit down and just go somewhere else you know maybe I want to leave Muncie right now that's it this is my out she said and I don't remember the words exactly but she said you know what you can do anything you want to do well I knew that that's what my grandma told me I've heard that all my life okay no one ever tells you when you get to that fork in the road what to do so she she was working she was finishing her bachelor's degree so that was something we had in common and she was quite older than me and I was like so see that's one see nothing's impossible I got blessed to be with someone that's working full time and going to school we understand each other's plight she told me she said you know when I started school and I said yeah she said I think she has seven kids I know unheard of her husband was a Muncie policeman he was like an assistant chief or something in the police force in Muncie and she said well my youngest son started I don't know if it was junior high or high school that's when I his name is Jay he's a policeman to this day that's when I started school college but I'm looking at her like wow and she said right now and she said don't ever give up you can do it and we you know she talked to me for long I was like to see the strength in this woman you guys so you're telling me you got six kids did you have six kids you you were she was a stay-at-home mom her husband was a policeman she told me you know how rough you know how good times and bad times she what I looked at her and I'm thinking maybe she was under 40 s at the time but to me you know okay once again I'm looking at well that's old right you know she inspired me beyond measure that day and it was full throttle at that point I can I can do this and don't let the worries of the world or the naysayers or a bad class get you down she said you keep your head up what you need help in and she taught me go ask for help that's one thing I learned ask for help when you need it don't be ashamed and don't think you can do everything I told y'all I recently saw her that was hard because she inspired me to finish and I love her to this day she was the one room all at Ball State assist you can't do it anyone tell you otherwise I was like oh I see her daughters from time to time and I worked with several of them you know I'm in full-time other full-time opportunities here at the state and served on a few committees here at Ball State dad she was she really got me recipes three Larissa's history so do you still think about her and sort of her advice and the values that she gave you and you're like literally I just tell her they may have been a year ago and think they were celebrating or I don't know I know she's over 80 now I just gave her the biggest hug I don't know if she remembers me I'm sure she does okay I just had to breathe there for a second no problem but anyway she had a lasting impact ooh yeah one always does it to me you always have that one person I'm so going off of that what would your advice be for someone who's kind of pursuing maybe a non-traditional path or struggling with maybe finding the resources to go to school and doing multiple things that want you know what today there's so much so many resources available whether it's online in a library I'm at this at some of the school levels and I say something because it depends on where you go to school at and some of the resources the teachers and advisers in churches in community organizations there are learning centers in the community that weren't there when I was a kid that advised students and even parents while they have small children and these agencies can help parents with all the challenges they have in life as well as helping them pursue additional opportunities to make their lives better ask questions never don't hesitate and sell yourself short because the resources are available it access to the Internet it's just so much out to know everything on the Internet's not right in everywhere and that's not true please believe that that's not the case but they exposure to so many different things today the access to financial support the access to other types of opportunities to attend school online there are ordinary schools that even provide you the opportunity to take your professional experience and give you credit those kind of things just were unheard of back then so invite if I had to give advice to anyone that did the non-traditional route is take your time ask questions don't beat up yourself understand that you're just one person and there's all there is their support systems out there that weren't out there when I had it I had maybe one person or or two people not they weren't the only person because I'm a replacement office I had advisors each job that I worked in and I worked down the hall from my professors I mean all of those people were instrumental in my pathway to achieving the education that I did here at Ball State but just don't take it for granted and ask those questions stay engaged believe in yourself you know and I think that's one of those big things now Millennials maybe that's you you guys look at things differently I have a kid that's a millennial differently we won't that's a whole nother interview we won't go into because okay we now look at this oh that's just how the old people did it that's just how you had to do it because of your you know your economic situation or what have you you know I'm like these are my own kids right I'm going like okay but I've had to give that advice to another young mother and I have actually have you know what you don't have to take a whole course load take one class at a time you you know man do what's comfortable for you and your family well it's not comfortable for you and your family take step back take a breather what's more important here at the end of the day you have to ask yourself that question you're really do now you can be gold oriented and focused and do all those things just understand you got to strike a balance and understand that it's not gonna be perfect okay it's not gonna you know I have a friend who's coming out hurt she has a daughter's gonna graduate from high school and she's finished her degree and she's a she's on the beat she's been on the Dean's List the last three semesters she's in her 40s she said you know what I'm going to schools and the bill is a whole lot different than coming out of high school student she said I said in classes she's in another state she's got seven kids in classes their focus isn't my focus is different I know what family is I know what being a wife is this is a goal this is something I put off to raise my family and so I look at it totally different my view out of a do it from a different window pane so I said but you know you'll be competing with those same graduates and she goes yeah that that's a whole nother conversation but she goes I told her kids aren't doing that but she goes you're right it was something I said I can't do this I can't do this and once I did she said once you get started you can't stop you know the young kids don't you give them one tattoo you got to get another I don't have any tattoos but I don't understand that logic okay but I said yeah once you get started you can't stop and then once you pursue I wouldn't when I'm getting my PhD I was encouraged to I mean highly it was like you better go do that I had need to go to another school but family and things going on and my wife at the time did not lend itself to that opportunity I probably could have done it and I'd be done with it and I maybe I wouldn't be sitting here today but I said you know what that is not probably what I want at the moment in hindsight I still don't know if I would have wanted it you know what I'm saying but that was my next path you know I had lined up schools I'm gonna you know bet and see what's going on a few faculty were like Marshall Marshall are you have you applied yet a lot of supporters and you know what that's like to have that people like in your corner I have a luxury of all those supporters and I told Altos like what do you guys write me a check we good you know a lot of laughing I think you know what I asked the right person i mighta got that but you know that wasn't you know what I said it wasn't in the cards at that time I didn't think it was the best decision for me but doesn't take away from the wonderful experiences if I had between now and then I mean between then and where I am today do you think that you ever would want to go on to get your PhD yeah I don't know if I change career paths per se if I just go into teaching teaching as I said I've been teaching at the University yeah I've been teaching at the university level adjunct status for over oh wow 1213 years and it's been awesome it once again we're Matt I'm engaging with the students right and I learned from each class each semester you know I like you know I still like this you guys I'm 21 what you're allowed to be mourning you know and we have a good time but I share real-world experiences from the old days and then I bring them to the present but it keeps me engaged I enjoy that that aspect of learning and seeing them go off into these great careers and these opportunities I think I get a bigger kick out of hearing Oh Marshall I got a job at Lily Oh Marshall I got a job at price water Oh Marshall I got I have one that you know went on to Microsoft No so you like I brag about them because not only are their their future but I enjoyed learning with them then I reach out and say hey you want to like talk to the class and tell them about what you're doing the day you know though yeah they reach back and say okay I'll do that so those are those are connection connections all have for a lifetime why you know journalist journal journalism teachers and other individuals that are in counseling now so that were my former students I had I have a GA that I still connect with to this day and students have been at their weddings and they keep me informed of the birth of their children I tell them thing and making me really feel oh that's what they're doing but they're their lifelong relationships you know I don't have to see them every day but we always remember each other I still get Christmas cards from three you know look that's all and I've known I still know a lot cuz every now and then somebody walk in and Stu I walk in the store I've been even out of state and they'll say my name and I'm going or I don't get that look how like can I go you remember who I am because I've hired hundreds of students right but they will remember me you don't and we'll go back and it's like but there I had an impact they had an impact once I heard they say oh I worked in the Robert Bell lab I worked in the Burkhardt building it was a lab in this building Burkhart building that I worked in the Student Center lab I worked here I worked there and I was like oh yeah they tell me something they did that was unique and different that you remember he's a tell us we couldn't do such and such and I have a few students I work at Lille they'll call me and hey Marshall I'm in town you go to lunch you know things like that so those are relationships that that'll be a lifetime and I remember and I was a part of their life you know so I enjoy that I enjoy the status and I think I was like do I want to teach full-time maybe after maybe you know a few years I keep thinking I keep coming touching back and going should I should I then there's all these think places I want to travel to and do you know I have that bucket list I didn't know what that was now I have getting deeper I'm gonna skydive that's what I'm gonna do my husband and my all my siblings and my friend think I'm crazy like why do you want to jump on a plane when you're afraid of heights I don't know I just want to be that closer to God I guess I don't know if it's necessarily number one but it's the most riskiest thing that I would want to do I just enjoy traveling I do I do I don't enjoy traveling I'm not too cold places though yeah I know I live in Indiana I don't complain I don't complain out loud it is so would you say that sort of having those really strong support systems in your life and in your education and in your career sort of makes you value being that a support system for students more yeah and sometimes I think am i worthy you know that they call me up Rochelle can you be a reference can you check out my resume will you vouch for me I'm gonna apply to this program could you write me your recommendation or those kind of things or talk to me about a work a work interaction that they're having at their company or how would you handle an employee that I always does I got a supervisor they come to me and I'm going I'm not the expert I think I always joke what I would say you know I went to the wrong career but sometimes I don't know if I'm necessary worthy of those those opportunities that land in my lap and then again it was like obviously they wouldn't be asking I guess and then I always go like this now you understand that this information may be unique for your circumstance it's not a boxed answer but the whole point I think I always tell them to take back let's take a step back and evaluate and assess the situation and understand you can't change people's behaviors but you can't change what you do and that you always have a choice and working with people while people I say there's a common question in interviews can you work with people tell me how you work with people and I tell them I hate that question is it because everyone sits and go oh yeah I'm great with people and we know that it is not true everyone isn't that great with me I said these are those challenges that I told you about in life but you're not gonna like everybody work with and then there's gonna be ones you really liked that are not gonna stay with you forever so you have to kind of find your place but treat people fairly I think that's you know some of that if I and then they can go back say thanks you know some people say what you're the other mom and I'm going oh my god I'm seen as a mom I know I'm getting old now so that does put me in that unique place it also tells me maybe that's what you were designed is it that's your design that's your piece of fabric and the greater piece of the cloth that is life this was your role would you say that that kind of guidance position is the most rewarding aspect of yeah it is it is like I said sometimes it's weighty you know it's sometimes I don't like I said I'm kind of humbled like I mean go ask buddy else I'm not the person to ask and but it comes my way so I as I always told my husband I take it with a grain of salt I give you the best advice I can give you but I also ask you to explore all avenues and remember whatever decision you make you know there's a consequence to every decision so while my advice is not perfect it is the best I can give you based on my experiences and you think that being a mom and a career woman and an educator gives you a unique sort of perspective in this situation absolutely okay it's like all that bottle up and one is gonna roll out some of these I sound like just a mom some days I sound like you know okay she's too business today you can't talk sure today other times I sound like a psychologist which I told him I can't I would never be in that field because of some situations like go like his jump and that's a long story but I used to want to you know what I started out and I didn't say this in the beginning because business has always been some I didn't know where I wanted to go in business I learned that I like to human resource and I like to communication while the two didn't connect on the curriculum levels but I underst I knew how to make it work from her show I thought about psychology I just I think that was great because I wanted to understand people because people are great then I realize after one class I don't do this I don't believe everything Freud says that man was nuts okay now I'm not evaluating the the credentials of the faculty person that was teaching me or the textbook of which I was reading or anything I just didn't agree with it remember when it doesn't agree with me it doesn't work right so when people come to me in those unique circumstances and I feel like that guidance counselor or somebody asking you a question that pertains to their life I'm going like this I'm in the wrong I'm in the wrong profession I could have made a lot of money off all y'all and that's my joke can I go and then there's the ones I say jump see that's why I couldn't be in the profession it's a joke but I go so I have friends that we're gonna feel and I go they're richer than me but they didn't tell that people to jump they should it it is truly for human purposes so what would you say out of all your experiences would you be the most proud of Wow lasting at Ball State 35 meters yeah I don't know if I'm most proud of that or just that's just the way it happened I'm not ashamed of it but most proud of the experience and having the opportunity to sit down with you and know that this lies not see this 50 years from now make me to be asked to do something like this I didn't ever think I would oh my god I'm getting old again I'm getting old again so I'd never think I'd be in a position to talk about my life and someone else is gonna see that well I'm so glad that you decided to participate in those yeah I just like I'm like oh my goodness I'm not like everybody else mm-hmm and that's what you know what and that that's okay that makes me who I am that is exactly why well I think that's a fantastic note to end on so is there anything else before we end that you would want to bring up or talk about or let people know about anything as far as yours what is great life is great and it's all in how you look at it so live it to your fullest and no matter what you do in life do the best you can do okay well on behalf of the Ball State University african-american alumni oral history project I like to thank you so much for your participation it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you

Channel: Ball State University Libraries

Views: 111

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: oral histories, interviews, Ball State University alumni and alumnae, black college graduates

Id: pSshv2OB2dc

Length: 93min 55sec (5635 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 29 2019