Louis Right to Repair testimony in Maine.

hey everybody how's it going so today I would like to post the main testimony I would like to post the video of what prefaced my testimony along with my testimony I'd like to post the entire thing and that I'd like to split it up into each individual person since there were a list of over a dozen lobbyists against the bill that showed up when we looked at the sign-in sheet at the end it's funny because one of my my youtube viewers and myself are the only two people that actually signs in the sheet as for the bill there was an entire page of against now what I want to do here rather than just post my testimony is post the preface to it because many people are going to be confused as to why it is I'm over explaining many of these points now there were a few points here that we're confusing to me so typically the way this works to my knowledge and understanding is that there are sponsors for a bill and the sponsors are the people who are in favor of the bill who wish to see it passed who think it is a good thing and they will present the bill and when they're presenting the bill they'll explain why it's important why it's a good idea and when this bill began to be presented I thought that the person speaking was the co-sponsor but the way they were presenting it it started to sound to me like they were an actual opposition lobbyists who thought that the bill should not be passed or that the bill was not fit but then they said that they were a co-sponsor of the bill and it's a little kind of confusing unless you watch it to understand what it is I mean it seemed like these were well-meaning individuals well-meaning people that cared about their constituents because unlike everyplace else there was no timer they had a little cream and a timer in front of me and they never used it they allowed each person who showed up to speak their piece and get all of their ideas out they asked questions and it was great but the way the bill was presented to the committee it was in my opinion it seems like they were talking themselves out of the bill before they presented it so the way this works is first the bill is presented by the sponsor then people speak for it or against it but if the person who's the sponsor speaks against a bill in some way shape or form it makes it very difficult for me to do my job and argue in favor of the bill because now I'm not really arguing in favor of the bill now I have to essentially do two jobs I have to end reduce the bill while simultaneously saying why you know this bill is needed what is outlined in the bill what is not outlined in the bill what is risky why it's not risky and then after that I have to give my testimony as a repair shop owner which was a bit difficult to do and to be honest with you one of the difficult problems here for me was that you speak after everybody else speaks so I speak when chosen so for about 40 minutes I was listening to very nice kind well-meaning people who did not seem to understand my industry understand the problems in my industry or understand the bill very much explain to me how it works listen to them sounds confused listen to them ask questions that I could have easily answered in a minute rather than have it go on for 20 to 30 minutes but not be allowed to because that's you can't interrupt the legislative procedure once it's in session so I think it would be very good idea to actually listen to all of this even if it is a lot before you get to my testimony so that you can kind of understand how these legislative processes work because I think if people understand how these legislative processes work better then people who are lobbying on behalf of right to repair might be able to get more favorable results if we understand where the weaknesses lie where we need to put more work in and clearly after they're listening to today there is a lot more work that we need to put in that happens way before there's any sort of legislative hearing or committee so I'm gonna put a timestamp down here if you want to skip over straight to my testimony and you don't want to listen to everything else you'll be able to listen right down here but if you're open listening to the whole thing which I strongly suggest you you muscle your way through and do you will be able to do that as time permits I'm going to cut these up so that you have each individual person who testified for or against the bill so that there'll be short videos of each person's arguments and you can respond to those I also would HIGHLY appreciate if people who understand farm equipment once I do that or tractors or the entire dealership network when dealing with contractors would be able to chime in because while in my industry it's very easy for me to point out what I find to be BS when it comes to cellphones Macbook or pair electronics repair I'm kind of out there in the blue it comes to tractors or marine equipment farm equipment boats any of that stuff that's outside my wheelhouse so I don't know enough to be able to combat people who are saying things that are incorrect in a debate but I would like to improve just because I you know I live in New York and I'm not I'm not a foreign person it doesn't mean I'm not open to learning doesn't mean I don't want to be your student in this manner so that I can learn what is necessary so that I can be a better advocate for all of you that being said let's get to the testimony from today all right moving right along we will now open up the public hearing on LD 1977 an act to ensure a consumers right to repair certain electronic products welcome senator carpenter is always nice to see you Thank You senator her being always nice to see you my first time before the idea committee I'm honored thank you for allowing me to come and present LD 1977 give me just a bit of history I was asked to present this bill recognizing that there are perceived problems out there with the right of consumers and otherwise and other purchasers of equipment with digital electronic components parts to fix those as they break down and so I agreed to do that it is grown to a scope that I did not intend and I want to begin by that and take responsibility that nobody's fault but my own I wasn't on top of things the drafting perhaps as I should have meant as a result of that persons and organizations certainly in the heavy equipment manufacturing and sales business have come to believe that this is aimed at them and I don't know what the original intent this is a national movement not that I've been in touch with in the folks the national movement I know that at least 22 other states this legislation has been proposed so as I told the equipment folks at lunchtime today I had a meeting with some of them and said you know when you have this much smoke chances are there's some fire somewhere and I would suggest that they get in front of it rather than keep coming into the this legislature another legislators day in and day out in time and time again to try to defeat these kinds of things if I spend money a lot of money in most cases to purchase that or to purchase a half a million dollar Skinner I expect service I expect it to be able expect it to work and as a part of that I will get a typically I'll get a warranty well the warranty is no good to me whatsoever if I can't a get the parts to fix it and be get the people to fix it because I darn sure I'm not going to tear this thing apart and try to fix it myself so I think one of the first things we have to try to figure out is is is there a problem and if there's a problem what's the scope of the problem I've been a little guy most of my life and I've always been very much opposed to what I call a closed shop when I first started to practice law in northern Maine I learned how to do a title search but I found pretty quickly that I was shut out of the title search business because that business was usually directed by the realtor or the banker to a certain lawyer or firm of lawyers in town and that always frustrated me greatly so my opinion is that if manufacturers of the equipment as described in this bill are not making qualified personnel available to fix the equipment or parts available to fix the equipment then they're doing a disservice not only to the person's they're selling to but also to themselves ultimately in the long run there are persons that believe that this bill is only designed for small consumer electronics and what I call the inert parts I have a fairly new pickup truck I've never taken my truck even though it's still under warranty I've never taken my truck back to the dealership I haven't needed to when I want the tires rotated I go to my local mechanic we went to high school with me well I want the oil changed I go to the same guy that's not gonna void the warranty I'm not going to ask him to diagnose a problem with the engine or to put electronic diagnostic equipment on that and Jinpa because that probably would void the warranty my point is I guess if let's take the skidder for example if I pay a half a million dollars for piece of equipment to work in the woods and it goes down on me and I can't get the parts or the service to get that back up every day that that's down it's costing me a lot of money and that piece of property that I paid a lot of money for is totally useless I asked somebody who's in the business who I have great respect for my brother-in-law and I said what's the issue here what's driving this is it that there's no not an availability of parts issue is it a cost issue what is it and he estimated and I think the people that may come behind me here who testify on behalf of the equipment manufacturers there's both this both maybe I my sense of it is maybe its availability of service and service technicians and qualified they're defined in here as authorized retailer via providers I believe repair of providers the availability of them to come and fix that piece of equipment so I can get back to work I don't know what the scope of the problem is so I guess what I'm gonna ask you is to take this bill as a vehicle and to use it to try to define what the scope of this problem is and are we really talking about consumer electronics my cell phone are we talking about that half-a-million-dollar skidder the bill appears in section 3 to exclude a motor vehicle I think the language is pretty from a lawyer's perspective if that's what you want to do if you want to pass this bill excuse me exclude motor vehicles so most of the heavy equipment that we I've been mentioning is excluded under title 29 a as a motor vehicle but I will leave with your analyst a proposed amendment that would give you a whole laundry list of entities that I wish to have excluded if that's what you want to do with this bill going forward my preference would be that you use this bill as a vehicle to try to decide if there's a problem out there in the electronics field this is a big big question a big big big issue I'm leaving with you if so what's the scope of that problem and what do we need to do to fix it currently we don't have any state agency that would certify or train or oversee these signs of technicians to do this kind of sophisticated electronics electronic repair work so we would have to create that bureaucracy and I'm not sure that's what I ever intended in this bill so I believe that the equipment manufacturers who seem to be part of this bill whether they like it or not or whether they ever were intended are willing to work with the committee or work with the legislature and to try to define it what the scope of that problem is as I told them if this is something that's coming up nationwide if this is something that's coming back time and time again then there's a problem up there and they need to be part of the solution and they need to get out front on it and they suggest at least the folks that I talked to at lunchtime that they were more than willing to do that with that I'll be more than happy to take questions from the committee Thank You senator carpenter questions from members of the committee represent Perry Thank You senator so my cell phone I've broken a lot of screens on those and Apple has been pretty good to me but the Apple stores in Portland right there's a guy does screens right in Bangor so if I break my screen bring it to the guy to replace it in Bangor by voided my warranty for future problems with Apple is that kind of a scenario yes that is that is one of the certainly one of the scenarios it's been mentioned to me a lot I'm given to believe and I haven't looked at the warranty on your phone frankly I haven't looked at warranty on my phone I don't know if that will breach the warranty or not it what I was trying to get at here was the availability of people to work and the only term I could come up with was the inert parts of this equipment again I don't my warranty when I have my my mechanic my buddy James E oil so I would I would argue that that shouldn't warrant that it shouldn't breach the warranty knowing your analyst as I do having worked with him all summer I'm sure that he can come up with a far better definition than I can but that's the kind of thing that I would like to address with this but again I think there's a bigger problem out there if it's too much for the legislature for the committee to get its arms around this session so be it but that's where I'm headed good things any other questions for senator carpenter so senator I just want to just clarify so make sure I understand what you're asking so you're basically saying that this is not the bill start let's strike this and what your request is is that perhaps we could have a state agency look in look to identify if there is some kind of problem yes and given given the fact again the number 22 states keeps coming up and talking to folks there are at least this this issue has come forward in at least 22 states I believe California and perhaps Massachusetts have passed something like this so I think we could get the data Sam could get the data for you in terms of what's happened in other states is it is it that big a problem or is it just normal I mean we've always used to be at a forty 20 john deere and you've got your cut you've got your cousin to come out and fix it when it broke down in the field not quite so simple anymore to use a farm analogy so I don't know the scope of the problem okay thank you so much thank you very much I'm gonna leave that amendment that I spoke of with your analyst and you can decide to go forward I would ask you to exclude those very clear that Thank You senator carpenter all right do we have any co-sponsors in the room it looks like we do have a few welcome our presenters Eclair Thank You senator Berbick good afternoon senator Herbig and the distinguished members of the innovation development economic advancement and business community my name is Stanley page Ziegler jr. and I represent district 96 consisting of the towns of Belmont Liberty Lincolnville Montville Mauro Palermo and Sears ma I am here today to support LD 1977 an act to ensure consumers right to repair certain electronic products senator carpenter certainly made a good opening in regard to this and I also agree that the complexity of this problem may be beyond this bill but I was contacted by a constituent regarding the right to repair movement there has been an effort as we've talked about or do similar bills in 22 states and California has been leading that this movement has developed from frustrated consumers experiencing difficulty and repairing their items in a timely manner and at a reasonable cost some of you may be surprised to know that I spent much of my 20s working as a logger here in Maine when our equipment or machines broke down we were and we would make the repairs in the field if we could and if we didn't we didn't get paid so we needed to repair those machines in a timely fashion nowadays the machines are far more complex as most in life isn't right now that you have to call a dealer to order specialized parts and and schedule service if they're they aren't able to get the dealer to come to the jobsite to do the repair you have to move the machine to the repair shop this this leads to time and money loss not to mention the more expensive price of having to work solely with the dealer another issue the consumers highlight is that rather than being allowed to have items repaired at a modest price by local people they are encouraged to purchase newer items when the dealer a factory explains the price to repair is greater than the price of the product this process adds to our waste problem in landfills this bill does not aim to make changes to proprietary information that's a very important part of it as that should remain protected this is a bill about the rights of consumers I also would like to note that consumers report an independent non-profit member organization has submitted testimony in support of this bill I thank the committee for its time Thank You representative Ziegler any questions from members of the committee there was no second thank you madam chair forgive me for being really confused so we have this we have this bill with a lot of language in it we were just told from the senator that we basically should disregard all the language in this bill and come up with something else the senator is questioning whether there's a problem or not he actually asked us why is there a problem and you just said we need to look into this problem could you be more specific what what are you identifying specifically as a problem I think I just mentioned what the problems were could you repeat it then I must have missed it yeah the problem is that if you have to make a repair and you have to go through the dealer often that can be very costly and it's a time delay if there are people available to fix it in a closer range it doesn't affect the warranty that decreases the time I think what the senator is saying is that there is a problem but this bill we want to look at the scope of the problem we want more input from stakeholders we want to see who is affected by it and so again he's not saying there's not a problem he's saying let's define the problem more most of the model bills in the 22 states going forward or start as concept bills it's up to the legislature and this committee to define and from hearing the public testimony to define more what the state should do in regards is that to protect consumer rights this started from Apple and its phones because of how they design them and when they started to design the much slimmer phone that we all love they made them far more complex I can't find my phone right now oh god I hate being 70 years old we forget things periodically that started and also farmers and anybody operating heavy equipment in rural areas sort of complain because it took them time and effort and money to get their equipment fixed previously the equipment was not as sophisticated as it is today and comes sophistication comes with when I was working in the woods there were two machines and the rest of us were just loggers and scooter drivers I worked for Georgia Pacific now it's all automated machines very few of individual loggers that's very complex machine it's the stress on the machines both farming and logging in particularly or since we're talking about these two entities you know there's quite quite hard so I don't know if I answered your question but I hope I did thank you anyway I just follow up with that please follow up first Equis little thick-headed too many skill saws and nail guns and that sort of stuff probably so the problem is as we all know machines break down and what you're saying is they're not able to be fixed fast enough under current conditions am i following that just somewhat okay they're not and if they fix all the time I'm sorry are you are we now looking at because why aren't they being able to be fixed in a timely fashion that's the question is it because of dealers not allowing third parties to be involved in that because they're worried about proprietary information and this happened in regards to automobiles in California so maybe I am answering your question when you talk about a timely fashion it's the time issue in there is because of the fact you have to go through dealerships okay I think I'm I think I'm starting to get what you're good at thank you all right see no further questions thank you representing seeker Thank You Sara any other co-sponsors that wish to testify Senate President Jackson's always good to see you but Alissa right here senator Harvick and members of the Joyce and community innovation development and economic advancement Business Committee names Troy Jackson I serve as president of Maine Senate and have the great honor representing senators Kiwanis made up the good people in northern Worcester County I'm here today to testify in support of LD 1977 and act inshore consumers right to repair certain electronic products this is a simple concept if you own a product you should have the right to repair it yet more and more electronic products are sold with severe restrictions on the owners ability to repair their device this undermines the free market and hurts small businesses have traditionally performed based repairs at a reasonable price often much less than the manufacturer it renders these small businesses obsolete at the expense of the consumer excuse me the customer a large rural state like Maine traveling to an authorized dealer cost both time and money depending on where you live and that's before the repair even begins this bill takes a balanced approach to protect your rights as consumers promoting small businesses and respected manufacturers trade secrets it requires manufacturers or electronic equipment to make available the information and material needed to diagnose and repair problems however it also acknowledge the manufacturers right to protect trade secrets maintain a warranty with a buyer LD 1977 also established steps to ensure owner protection independent businesses prior to servicing a product must notify the owner of the equipment they're not authorized repair not the authorized repair provider and that owner should review the warranty before proceeding several companies already respect our right to prepare including Lenovo and Dell they make their repair manuals and products readily available Mainers are known for their rugged individualism and Yankee ingenuity we are also known for our pragmatism when it comes to unnecessary expense this bill is about taking matters in your own hands and bring your device to a local person you trust and getting the job done and reserve the right to repair the products they own the right to support small business and right to create jobs in their community that's why I support LD 1977 and act and show our computers right to repair certain electronic products and I hope you'll join me so I just won't say the genesis does build a lot of people in Aroostook County had approached both myself and Senator carpenter about phones laptops things like that and and I think represent Perry spoke to having to go to Portland which is I don't have an iPhone but I hear people all the time that talk about the challenge of that and I know with the Droid bring into Presque Isle they ship it out it you know and I mean we obviously live in a society now that having your phone with you is unfortunately a basic necessity and so that really is what you know I heard from constituents you know seems to be a real problem and in in the drafting I'm a little I mean I understand why people could be concerned about legislation like this definitely but you know the the way that this bill is drafted obviously by their visors office if you look on the second the first page on three and thoughts about digital electronic equipment and digital electronic equipment means any product that depends for its functioning in whole or in part on digital electronics embedded in or attached to the product but does not include a motor vehicle as defined by title 29 a so when you go to that 29 a motor vehicle means a self-propelled vehicle not operated exclusively on railroad tracks but does not include a snowmobile an all-terrain vehicle or motorized wheelchair so you know I'm not a lawyer but revisers drafted a bill that seems to have excluded motor vehicles which includes four equipment and and farm products and stuff like that so I was never you know the intent or what constituents that I'd heard from with this bill I mean it's a simple fact that traveling to Portland to have somebody possibly change a screen or so that's that's the issue is you know where where do you draw the line on what could be repaired by local dealers and and things like that never was you know my understanding and I'm sure I mean senator carpenter you know didn't think that you know by the revisers drafting we were going down a completely different Road so I mean I've actually had Frank Martins here in this the previous generation of this committee business talking about franchise agreements and stuff like that understand the challenges that this is you know for me why you know I worked on it with him and signed on to it about electronic now obviously that's going to cause a whole bunch of people from Apple and all those things be upset and we're still going to be controversial and I get that but in the side that we're in today not being able to have access to your smartphone or your laptop or tablet in a you know relatively timely manner is a problem and I think it's something that you know we at least should look at from my part I mean I tell the people in the room I mean I laid it all out you know if this any way shape or form that into motor vehicle as defined and you know I would say the committee ought to kill it because that was I mean I think Mike's you know concern intent and and certainly mine so but but I do think that we have a serious problem with electronic devices in parts of the state possibly even importantly you know maybe people in Portland don't don't get the service that they deserve either I don't know but I know the people that I represent are having a higher time of this problem it was actually brought to us by constituents that you know we kind of share throat rustic County and and I'm sure you know you probably all have heard people's frustrations with that to some extent so that's that's why I'm in favor of the bill why I worked with senator carpenter and why I co-sponsored it and and you know regardless what the committee to do does why I'll be supportive of somewhere along line this people getting you know some form of way to make this work better for them so I'll take any questions okay Thank You senator Jackson questions from members of the committee say thank you that was pretty clarifying for me actually it was well it was nice to have a very clear understanding of what the original intent was the bill and just since we have a lot of people here I think sometimes legislators we try to craft legislation to get it a very specific problem and I always say that lawmaking is like casting a net sometimes you catch things in there that you don't intend and it has consequences to people in the industry and causes a lot of alarm and certainly none of us would ever want that so thank you for clarifying that so what I'm just just to make sure so what I'm understanding from you is that if we could identify a problem or if we could have a better idea of what people are struggling with when it comes to their personal electronic devices that would be more of what you would be looking at look well I mean that's you know what the intent of the bill was brought about to I mean both of us and like I said you know I go by what the revisors office knows the statute and and because it's not you know like I said and I'm not a lawyer but to me after having explained to me more well how they drafted I think they drafted accurate but I understand how it can be confusing and and certainly people in the industry you know never should take a chance you know I mean if it so I can appreciate their concern but that's absolutely not what the intent was okay thank you thank you for that any other questions represented Crockett's thank you madam chair I think it would be really helpful if we could get if if it's if we can figure it out a list of what products are affected here I mean obviously Motor Vehicles are out because a lot of times if you know if the whole warranty issue obviously that's one thing to address but I know what the big companies if there's nothing nearby oftentimes they want you to mail it in order to get repairs and things like that well depending on the size of whatever products were talking about that's not necessarily a viable option and you're much better having it done locally if it's if it's available so if we could maybe narrow the scope of what the products are we're talking about that would be helpful hmm yeah well I mean like I said I I don't disagree with you at all I mean reality I mean forestry equipment I mean my son owns a feller buncher I mean Frank Meyer and rate there and fork and you have North tracks outside down holding I mean you know that while it's still distance involved there I mean at least people can get there and get parts and things like that and but you know Portland is and you know you're not gonna mail a feller buncher thank you see seeing oh represents Texas thank you madam chair I guess one of the questions that sort of comes to mind here Here I am I'm reading over all all these words that we're supposed to not even be paying attention to now I guess but it does expressly say excluding motor vehicle but is a farm tractor a lawn mower a skidder a feller buncher a motor vehicle according the revisors office now the tenant like it said title twenty nine eight states what a motor vehicle is so this language would actually include those items no it wouldn't excluding motor vehicle which according to the rise office twenty nine eight means that a feller buncher or farm tractor is a motor vehicle and this excludes motor vehicles all right thank you I'm sure our I'm not sure I'm saying we can I was gonna say I think yeah well I'm sure miss our analyst mr. Sennett will have a lot more information for us at the work session yeah well I mean like I said just to reiterate on that Rodgers office you know tried to make it clear in their language terms that this was for electronic devices not including motor vehicles and forestry farming even obviously any other is not a motor vehicle according to 29 Inc so alright well thank you for the thing for the information thanks for joining us today yeah sure any other co-sponsors that wish to testify seen our other legislators welcome representative thank you thank you hmm good afternoon senator her big and distinguished members of the innovation development economic advancement and Business Committee I'm representative David McCray I love up in Fort Fairfield in the center of the county and I proudly represent the House District 148 in that County I'm here in support of LD 1977 an act to ensure a consumers right to repair certain electronic devices I suspect there are quite a few people behind me that are kind of relieved to see the evolution of this bill right before their eyes or devolution Huff had helped because it in my mind when it was first brought to me by a constituent it was explained as a way to allow cell phone and computer repairs such as replacement of screens batteries and other similar items not to dig into the the unbelievably technical parts of those electronic devices I thought that was a good idea gave as an example some grandmother that received a cell phone that had been used by her grandson and Grammy I got to get a better one and I'm gonna give you my old one but it's got a cracked screen and she can't see very well through it so if she could just bring that to my constituent Mike and he could put a screen in that for 40 bucks that would be great but he can okay so that was I'm all-in okay that's what brought me into this I had breakfast this morning with senator carpenter and we both were going home my god how did this get so big and so broad okay and we probably should have known that it was gonna get that broad but I don't think the genesis of it really didn't even suggest it was going to do that with us I'm more aligned more thinking of the kinds of things like a printer that goes bad where there's a thing in there that aligns something that's a little bit like a timing gear in a vehicle my computer guy says desh as well throw that away we can get another one just like it for less than I can repair it for which is like really okay or just before it broke I bought Inc a colored cartridge and a black cartridge and there's about $60 worth of ink so I thought well I thought I'm gonna throw this thing away I'm at least gonna get my cartridges so I bought another of the same kind of printer that I thought I could put those packages in and at least retrieve that I says oh no no no these have been installed in another computer so you might as well throw them away because you cannot use them ever again unless you can put them in the original computer that didn't set well only because I bought the I bought the printer I bought the the ink those kinds of things are what I've viewed this bill to be I also think now we're gonna go into the the motor vehicle a little bit here and I don't expand this back to motor vehicles but like for example changing the starter on a vehicle changing a starter on a tractor that may have to be down right during harvest in Aroostook County for two days until they either can get a mechanic there that is factory trained or to get the part there to me that's kind of nuts okay know if it's a part thing it's a part thing but if you can't change your own starter on the tractor it's almost to the point where you can't change the battery on the tractor or tighten the belt okay try doing it tightening a drive belt or something like that one of the things is geographic isolation and that can be with motor vehicles but it also has everything to do with small personal devices cell phones laptops iPads etc I was talking to someone recently that said they live fairly near Portland and they said it's a pain because I have to go clear inside the mall to get my to get service and I'm thinking Portland's only 300 miles from my house okay and and then when you get there you have to make an appointment and it's gonna be for the next day and you can't necessarily call ahead and get the appointment so those are real nuisances and I think somewhere in all of what we've heard talked about here there is a solution I apologize if I've been a part of making this expand to the point where people are going to throw things at me from the back but I also think that in a lot of cases it's a matter of let's make this be a factory trained dealer repair so that we can get the 130 dollar an hour repair fees etc etc and all that rather than having my cup in Fort Fairfield put it in a computer screen or a laptop screen or what have you so that's you know and and there's a little bit of me if I buy it I own it there's there's a little bit of that in there and I understand there's proprietary material in there then I don't have any business being in there but I still bought the phone okay and I know there's stuff in there that says I don't have the ability to get in there and I don't want it but there is something there that makes it mmm somewhat patently unfair so with that I do support the bill as it seems to be evolving and maybe we can put something together that will really focus on on the kinds of things that the bill says in the title right to repair certain electronic devices if we can do that I think it'll be a success for all of us I think the people of Maine will appreciate it and not just you know not just that repair guy but everybody so with that I'll try to answer any questions Thank You representative any questions for members of the committee represents tech is there we go thank you doing my part so it sounds like with your testimony as this has evolved or however so at this point or devolved at this point we are only talking about electronic devices I'm not the sponsor of the bill but that would satisfy the part that got me involved in this so I think if that's if that's where we go I do that guy so I just said I think that would be a great service to an awful lot of people on something that need not be this complex follow up stem stick is okay so if if if we can get to that point where it's only electronic devices and of course you met you just mentioned I think one particular items say a cell phone so again I've got these are what we're not supposed to consider we're not we're supposed to erase all this I'm just China you know where are we gonna end up I guess if I guess we're gonna look into this but if under the cell phone situation let's say 80 or 90 percent of the perceived problem that we don't know is a problem isn't a problem do we just walk away from this well I I guess in my opinion okay I don't want to fight for the right on on on motor vehicles and stuff like that that went way beyond what I thought I was getting involved in I I firmly believe as I just said that everybody in this room would be better served if we could take it to Mike and have him put a new laptop screen in or something right I don't want him in doing real technical stuff because he's not gonna be factory trained on a on a particular device but but I got a feeling truth be known I'm not the greatest I'm not the brightest guy in the world but I think in an hour you could probably train me to change the screen on on your cell phone and I could do it efficiently but you sure couldn't get me in there spot fixing some of the electronics in this thing of course not I represent Higgins um thank you that's rather than taking it to Mike maybe we should take it to Sam who's back here who's our analyst it seems that there's a quite different direction here needs a lot of language to bring it back to what the intent was we're certainly not gonna write that language ourselves sitting around here so when we come back to work session I I think it would make sense to have something that's captured what I think you talked about with with the person of the Senate talked about and probably relieve a lot of angst of people here and I won't be the ones fixing my screen no matter what about anyway I would be much easier for me if I didn't have to drive 150 miles to do it as well so I don't know if that it seems to me that might be where we need to go or maybe back to right revisors office I don't know madam chair what what direction but obviously we need something quite different what we have for the work session and say a whole lot different yeah the point of clarification the mic I was speaking of was not the good senator well Mike was the constituent that brought this to me Mike carpenter doesn't fix thanks for the information thank you Chris sure all right anyway I don't see any other legislators in there anybody that wishes to testify in favor of LD 1977 hi my name is Louis Rothman with rossmann repair I run a repair shop in New York City I want to say thank you very much for giving us the time to talk about this bill usually when I travel around the country and I discuss it I go over the opposition arguments because they're usually false or made up here I think a part of my job is going to be explaining how some of the bill is written and why it's written the way it is because there appears to be some confusion regarding that so the first thing I want to do is describe the specific scope of the problem and why it is at a point where people with issues with their cell phone are showing up in front of legislative committees let me talk a little about how devices were serviced fifty years ago in contrast at the now so if you had let's say an appliance to receive or anything like that sixty years ago and you wanted to fix it you could open it up and it would have documentation inside that said how it was all put together now we don't have that if you wanted to buy a part to fix that thing that you paid one or two thousand dollars for you could call up the company and even if they didn't have the part still in stock they would direct you to somebody who has it let's fast forward to 2018 so with that laptop you have over there if something goes wrong with it I can buy a chip online for five dollars replace it and you're back in business your data is there all your software is there and you're good with new machines what happens is Apple has done something and many other companies are starting to do this they change that ship so it speaks on a different address so that I can't use last year's chip now if I contact Apple they won't sell it to me if I become a risa and Apple authorized service provider they still won't sell it to me if I go to the company that makes that ship they will say we are not allowed to sell that to anybody but Apple and you know what happens you go to Apple they say it'll be $1,500 to fix that board but wait it can replace it with another one so not only is it $1,500 but all your data is gone so if you drive for hours which is what you have to do here because there's one Apple Store in Maine that I can find you were gonna drive there you're gonna spend $1,500 for a repair that you could have spent $200 for and all of your information is gone this is why when lobbyists say this bill is a solution in search of a problem I think that's disingenuous because if that lobbyist who's reading off of his script has their script stuck inside that machine is not turning on because a five dollar chip is not available I'm certain they would see that as a problem now the next thing that comes up is dangers it is dangerous to have unauthorized people work on these products one of my employees is a mechanic he worked as a mechanic for about 25 years and he showed me an autozone commercial that came out last year it's called I did it and in the commercial you have four different families working on a car and it's implied that they're working on this car for the first time the one that struck me the most is seeing this mom daughter duo she girls like probably 14 years old and she's helping her mom lift the car up on to a jack so that they could change the brake pads the part that allows this 4000 pound hunk of metal to stop we are okay doing that because we are a nation that takes pride and self sufficiency we take pride in our ability to fix problems and service our own personal property yet here we are well you're gonna hear arguments where people are going to read from a script and tell you that replacing this little three volt battery inside of your phone is so dangerous that you shouldn't do it it doesn't make any sense the problem here is that the culture has changed drastically because 70 years ago even the greediest of companies would never do this whereas today many eco friendly companies hide inside this progressive blanket and pretend to care about the world are taking these types of actions just so that they can make a little bit extra money just so that you buy new ones that their stock price goes up every week that is the problem that we face here and the culture has chant has changed but the law hasn't caught up with it the last example that I will give because I think it's a good one if you unplug that machine it'll work because it's a chip that reads the battery with the many machines they make now if that chip dies and I try to replace it it has no farm or on it so I have to find the machine that I can read that firmware from if I try to read the firmware from a known good machines chip it will die it will erase itself like when Jack Bauer in the TV series 24 would be chasing a terrorist and that and then you go where's the bomb where's the bomb and then the terrorists would eat a cyanide pill because he'd rather die than let Jack know where the bomb is imagine if you tried to hook up jumper cables from your car to his car outside and the original car died just because you tried to fix it now when it comes to scope and exclusions there are certain exclusions that were written into the bill because to be honest with you people didn't feel like fighting lobbying groups of every single industry so this is a bill that that's regarding digital rights repair this is an issue that affects everybody just two months ago there was an article in The New York Times about how a Marine Corps officer was asking one of their subordinates why can't we do this training mission because the generator doesn't work why doesn't it work because I can't get parts to fix it this is about more than a cellphone or a tractor this is affecting everything in this country nowadays now the reason that there are certain exclusions is because we may be okay going up against the lobbyists in the cellphone industry we don't want to go up against lobbyists and let's say the medical industry in that state so in Boston they amended the bill to say this affects digital electronics blah blah blah but we are going to make an exclusion for medical devices because we don't want to go into the rabbit hole of liability and everything if something happens but this is an issue in the medical industry because in the medical industry there are hospitals where there's 100 to 200 thousand dollar machines they need a $200 power supply they wind up just forcing the hospital or replace it and pay a hundred thousand dollars which by the way is why our Hospital has been going up over the past 20 to 30 years this is an issue that affects everybody now when it comes to tractors because I heard it mentioned does this affect automobiles this is affect tractors what you should know is that in Nebraska the Farm Bureau Nebraska farm bureau voted 176 to 1 in favor of supporting right to repair legislation so whether or not this affects farms you should know that a farmers want a bill like this be they've been lobbying for it in Nebraska and Tennessee for years and see the Nebraska Farm Bureau is all standing behind you if you choose to sign this legislation and if you have any questions feel free to ask me I'm more than happy to answer any concerns and I'm here until tomorrow I'm not a lawyer but I'm not a lobbyist either but I'm good at playing pretend so questions from any committee members represent Andy hey you for coming and your perspective is very interesting and my question is around the impact on small repair businesses either existing ones or ones that would like to expand absolutely so for me if this bill doesn't pass I will still be able to do my job because I've been in this business for 12 years and I have a lot of contacts where new people who want to enter the business they are the people who are truly being hurt by these practices that chip that I said I can't get I now Kenya and I can't say how I can get it for obvious reasons but I have the access to it people who don't have experience can which means that if you have that problem in Maine there's no probably nobody in Maine that can get that chip and fix it if this bill is passed somebody in Maine will be able to buy that chip for ten to fifteen dollars and fix your device and maintain your data the reason that this is important to me and the reason that I travel as often as I do rather than work on my own company and 14 employees is because I want people to be able to follow in the path that I follow I used to be poor I was broke and this is the industry that allowed me to satisfy over 30,000 customers make a name for myself and hire 13 people away from jobs that previously paid the minimum wage that they now make two to four times as much so this has great impact on small businesses and will bring a lot of tax revenue to your state any other questions from members of the committee yes represent us Texas thank you madam chair I don't listen nearly as fast as you talk I didn't catch her name I'm sorry my name is Lois and every other state that I testify and they have that timer set the two or three minutes so I've gotten into this bad habit of talking to it I appreciate you not using it by the way thank you sorry go ahead so so Lois one of the things that's been mentioned previously is the right to repair movement yes and where you're traveling from state to state to state is this something that you're involved in I've been doing this for five years yes so you're part of the right to repair movement or the right to repair organization yes it's not so much an organization as it is a group of independent repair shops that that advocate and support for this legislation so what do you I guess this group of independent repair shops do you call yourself something are you an organization and not really we just call ourselves independent repair and Nebraska someone said repair family but that kind of got made fun of by the Senators up there so I try to avoid using it no sorry Michael but the yeah it's just a group of independent repair shops that we all deal with the exact same thing if I want to fix one of your machines I have to go to some kind of shady looking Russian website give them my credit card information hope that it doesn't get used in a way that it shouldn't and get a document that I probably shouldn't have access to if I want to buy parts to fix that machine that ship that I just told you about I can't tell you who supplies me that ship because if I do they'll get in trouble but I need to be able to get supplied that ship in order to do my job and I have everybody from normal customers to NYU students to members of the New York City District Attorney's Office that show up at my store to try to get me to recover data for devices that they need fixed it's important and the that's where I'm at so oh thank you it's gonna be careful I guess I'm just trying to figure out where we've got several pages of legislation here that we're not supposed to pay attention to now you've testified in other states is this have you looked at this legislation to that I don't have that memorized because they've changed some state to say is it is it similar to other that is legislation that you testified in favor to another state is very similar to legislation I've seen in other states and Boston the only issue they had was exception with medical devices I did not see an exception for medical devices in this bill but that looks like a 90% copy and paste of bills that have favorable of support in other states I testified in Washington to a very favorable and array of senators and they all were happy with the bill as it was and and those those bills included more than just electronic they included electronic devices the same way that this does the issue is not that it includes more than electronic devices because this bill only refers to electronic devices the problem is that electronic devices are in everything so if you want to fix a John Deere tractor that costs almost a million dollars the issue that farmers in Nebraska are having is that if you want to fix it you can actually fix the issue you have but you need to have someone come out from the dealership with a little computer and hook up to it and say okay it's been fixed now now it can work again because when it fails that are not able to use it again immediately so once they replaced whatever fuse or whatever it is that broke I don't use tractors I'm not a farmer the the way it was explained to me is once they've actually fixed it it won't work until someone from the dealer shows up in plugs in a machine so it's not about fixing the tractor it's about the fact that electronics are inside just about everything nowadays so it applies to just about everything so if you have a machine in a hospital we're not talking about fixing medical equipment but there's a power supply that powers that medical equipment and that will fail and that is something that can be fixed for $200 rather than replacing the whole thing for a hundred thousand dollars so it's not so much about what devices that this apply to so much as it is that electronics aren't everything nowadays they're being included in everything nowadays and if this is what's going to happen on the small scale with cell phones and laptops it's going to get only worse and worse as this expands outwards I didn't even know until two months ago and I saw that New York Times article the disaffected people in the Marine Corps I was I was astounded I had no idea that for lack of a better way to put it that they had the cojones to tell the Marines you can't fix the generators that we sold you just just to clarify there was a lot there so what you're saying with your experience with this legislation that is very much like legislation in other states they that you testified in it is justified that these folks with farm tractors and skitters and everything else is in your experience this applies to what they're what they're concerned about as well this fully applies to what the Nebraska Farm Bureau is concerned about and voted 176 to 1 in favor of supporting I said also I'm sorry to interrupt but this was also vetted by lobbyists I believe as well like who were helping us write and craft this bill for several years before it came to no I don't like scripts any other questions for members represent Perry thank you thanks for being here today so it sounds like this is a problem that affects people all over a lot of states are taking this issue up and there's a lot of favorable support out there it sounds like have any states passed anything like this yet this is a fairly recent movement passed anything yet to my knowledge but do you foresee someone's gonna be the first I foresee Washington passing it because to be honest in the past five years I have never seen lobbyists get skewered the way they wore by the Senators in Washington they were complete they were listening they understood the bill entirely and they were asking hardball questions whereas usually in the past when he would go to testify we would hear lobbyists speak and there would be no questions for anybody and then the bill would just disappear residen Washington it appears the the Senators are very gung-ho about making this happen and in Boston there was also a favorable favorable testimony given from some of the senators that were there I'm just wondering if someone's already done the work that we could we could do for guidance thank you any other questions for members of the committee seeing none thank you for joining us today thank you so much for taking the time welcome hello welcome my name is Anthony George I live in Waterville I live I work here in Augusta I'm a microbiologist at the Alpha and Center for health I just want to share as a consumer I don't belong to any group I'm a consumer um I bought this stereo about five years ago this is some stereo was built in 1971 I bought it because I had to phono inputs and I wanted to record players

Channel: Louis Rossmann

Views: 416,210

Rating: 4.9640746 out of 5

Keywords: maine, lobbying, right to repair, LD1977, Louis Rossmann

Id: -uYUB8DZH2M

Length: 57min 50sec (3470 seconds)

Published: Fri Jan 24 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/Massive-Gas]

all the co sponsors were confused as hell, and thought "wow, this covers everything and ia really complex!"

[u/Pikachu760]

This is what I hate about companies like Apple they make products that break within a few years, then they get contracts with the companies that develop the chips, make it to where you can't replace a chip on your own, then they force you to buy the $2,000 computer as you said. And this is something that's very old is been around for a very long time, and knowingly the committee lied about that.