The state calls Kobe Bryant th swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth that helps you back. Thank you. All right. Now that the witness has been sworn, I'll just inquire uh mister Ryan. These trial proceedings have been streamed live on the court's youtube channel and open for public access. Have you reviewed or watched any of this testimony that's taken place? No. Oh, and actually I, I was just going to note your honor, Mr Ryan is not subject to the exclusionary warrant. I appreciate you pointing that out, Mr Wood. That's correct. So uh as a statutorily uh definite with the definition here, he would not be subject to that. So uh disregard my inquiry, Mr Wood, you can go ahead and proceed and before I do your honor, may I be handed? States? Exhibits six and four. Yes. Good afternoon, Mister Ryan. Good afternoon. Can you state your name and spell your last name for the record? Yes, Kobe Ryan Ryan, Mr Ryan, who is your mother? Laurie Vallow. Uh How many siblings, how many siblings do you have for? Can you uh tell us their names. Cole, Zach, Tyley and JJ and Cole and Zach. What are, what is your specific relationship or relation to them? They're my stepbrothers. Who was their father? Charles Wallow. Your honor. May I publish? Yes, that's an admitted exhibit. Correct. Yes, that's the state's exhibit six. Ok. Yes, you may, Mr Ryan. Do you recognize that individual? Mhm. Yes. Who is that? That's my sister Tyley. What is your specific relation to Tyley? Um She's my half sister on my mom's side. Ok. So you, you share a mother in your honor? May I publish States? Exhibit four. Yes, Mr Ryan. Do you recognize that individual? Yes. And if, if you need a drink of water, I don't know if there's tissues up there. Yeah. I'm good. Who knows? Who is that? That is my brother JJ. And what is your uh specific relation to JJ? He is my adopted brother? Do you recall when JJ was adopted? Yes. Do you know who Charles Charles V was? Yes. Who, who was he? He was my stepfather? And when you say stepfather, how, how was he your stepfather? He married my mom? And how long was he married to your mom? Over 10 years? All right. And what was your relationship like with Mister Vallo? Um He was my dad. It was good. Said fair to say you were close with him. Yeah. Yeah. Do you recall when Mr Vallo passed away? Yes. Or Charles Vallo? If I say Charles, we understand who we're talking about. Right. Do you recall when he passed away? Yes. Uh, when was that July 11th? 2019? Uh, how did you hear about him passing away? My mom called me and told me that he had a heart attack. And do you remember about what time of day that was between, like, one and three o'clock, something in the, in the afternoon, in the afternoon? Mhm. Did you have any reason to not believe or that that's how he passed away? No. Did you have any occasion to go over and to your mother's house that day? Yes. And where was, where was that house located in Gilbert Arizona? Uh Do you know approximately what time you went over and I got off at work is seven so run 7 37 45. Oh, what happened? What was the first thing you saw when you got there, Kylie opened the door and hugged me and she was crying and then I saw my uncle Alex sitting on the couch with a bandage around his head and then I saw my mom in the backyard. And how was it to go into the house? Yes. Did you see your brother JJ there? No. Uh Did you speak with Alex Cox at all that night? Yes. Uh What, how did that conversation go? Did you, what did he say to you objection hearsay, statement of a coconspirator? Your arm over world did tell us about the conversation with, with Alex Cox. Well, and before II, I, we do that. What was your relation to Alex Cox? He was my uncle. And you, you testified, you saw him with something white wrapped around his head. Yes. Did you speak to him at all that night? I asked him what was on his head? And he said that Charles had hit him in the head with a bat and that he had shot him in self defense. And it is, is that how you learned how your stepdad died? Yes. Did he tell you anything else about that altercation? No. And did you ever have any other uh occasion to speak to him about that altercation? No, you said you saw your mother that night? And what was her demeanor? Calm, un un rattled. What did you think of that? I thought it was crazy. So I was freaking out and she seemed to not care. And did you speak to your mother that night about how Charles had actually died? Yes. How did that conversation go? She told me there was a fight and ran through it very quickly and it was just in shock. I can't remember exactly what she said, but she just basically gave me a very quick version of the story. Did she tell you why she had lied to you earlier? No. Do you remember if you ask her? I don't remember. Did you ever speak with Lori Vallow about Charles Vow's life insurance policy. Yes. When was, uh, do you know if that happened multiple times? I know she'd mentioned it growing up. She talked to us about what would happen if either one of them, something happened to them, what would happen? Um I think it was a few weeks later that she brought up that she was not going to receive any of the money from Charles. And let's just take a quick step back when you say a few weeks later, what do you mean a few weeks later after Charles was murdered? Ok. And, and she told you then that she was not going to receive that money. Yes. Uh, from that conversation, was it your understanding that she had been expecting to receive that money? Yes. And ok. Uh, when Charles was alive, did you ever have occasion to speak with Laurie Vow about her and Charles's finances? Yes, I did. Was that something that came up often? Yes. About how often do to the best of your recollection? I would say maybe monthly and once a month. And what was the general nature of those conversations? From what I understood? Um, Charles wood work and then receive a s like a bigger amount of money and then it would kind of run out and then they'd make another bigger amount and then it would run out. So it's kind of the nature of the conversation would be that they were running low on money. Something to that degree. Yeah. Was that a common theme then? And just, just to be clear of the common theme that they are running out of money? Yes. Do you know who Tyley Ryan's father was? Yes. Who was that? Joseph Ryan? And, uh I know that you and Joseph Ryan have the same last name. Yes. Is he your biological father? But do you, did you take his last name? Yes. And is, do you know if Mr Ryan is alive or deceased? He's deceased? And do you recall when that happened? Summer of 2020 18? I think something around that time. You don't remember the exact date? And were you aware if Tyrie Ryan received social security benefits after Joe Ryan passed away? Yes. How did you learn that my mom told me that she would be receiving benefits? And do you know if she received that monthly? Yes. Did you ever receive money from Tyler Ryan? Yes. Uh How would that usually happen? Um Venmo, she would Venmo me, would you ever ask her for some money? I did. Yes. And about how often did would that happen? Um Maybe I asked, I can recall asking Tyley specifically a couple times. Um I would mostly ask my mom and Tyley would be the middle man between those transactions. So I'd ask my mom and she would tell Tyley to send the money. Ok. Uh Speaking of that to your knowledge, uh did Lori Vallo ever send you money by sending it to Tyley? Who would then Venmo it to you? Yes. And how, how did you know that? I would ask my mom and then she said, ok, Ty will send it over to you. Ok. Do you recall the last time you saw Tyley Ryan? Yes. When was that? S August 30th? And where was that? It, it was outside of my work in the parking lot. Um Is that in Arizona? It was in Mesa Arizona outside of a gym. And what was the, the nature of that visit? My mom was very vague and said that they were leaving. She brought Tilian JJ and Tyley was crying and didn't say anything really. And I hugged JJ and my mom said that they be back in a few weeks to visit. Did she tell you where she was going? No. Do you recall if you asked? I did ask initially but she wouldn't tell you no. Did you receive or did you uh exchange text messages with Tyley Ryan on September 8th of 2019? Yes. Uh What was the nature of tho that ex text exchange? I think I had asked her to send money. Um, and I think we had talked earlier that day a little bit. I didn't talk to her directly but I had heard her voice and they said that they were on a trip and I think I'd asked her or money I think that's what it was. Ok. And did she respond? Do you recall? Yes. What did she respond? I don't remember what she said. Um Exactly. I do remember, I remember her last text that she said was just then I love you and I love the girls. And you said you heard her voice earlier that day? And how did you hear her voice? She was in the background of my conversation with my mom. And did your mom tell you where they were? She said they're at Yellowstone Park? Ok. Did you ever have a conversation with Laurie Vallo after charles' death about Tyley social security money? Yes. Uh, what was the nature of that conversation? So, if I recall, she said that Ty's money was not going to be everybody's money since she, I have some foundation as to what time date place this, this discussion took place. So the foundation objection, Mr Wood, your honor. I'll just, I'll ask a few more questions. Thank you. Do you recall approximately when that conversation took place? I don't. Ok. Uh, was it in person? I don't recall, I think it was on the phone maybe. Ah, but it was after Charles's death. Yes. And just to be clear, you don't recall the exact date. No, I don't remember. What was the nature of that conversation about Tyler's money. Judge again. Foundation over. You can answer the question. The initial question I had is how are you going to take care of Kylie and JJ now and I knew that she wasn't going to be receiving the money. So she said we're gonna use supplement some Tyler's money for now and I'm gonna go work. That was what she said. And that was basically the nature of it. She said we're gonna start using Tyler's money to make it through. And I think that they, I don't know if they were receiving anything for JJ, but that was the nature of the conversation. Ok. So you don't recall if she mentioned JJ receiving social security? I don't remember but I know about it. I just don't remember if she said that. Ok. And do you recall if she said anything about her receiving social security benefits after Charles died? No, the last time you saw Tyley, was that also the last time you saw JJ? And I think you said that was September or August 30th of 2019. Yes, I wanna talk to you about November 27th, 2019. Were you contacted by the Gilbert police on November 27th of 2019? What was the purpose of that contact? They came to our door looking for Tyley and I think JJ as well. I specifically them remember them asking about Tyley first. Yeah. And what did you tell them? I said I didn't know where they were. Did you, do you recall if you told them about the last time you had seen them. I think so. I think so at that time. Had you been concerned about Tyley? Yes. Why is that our conversations, um, were not normal the way she, her dialect and her text, the way she spoke wasn't matching up and I text her for her birthday and just things of that nature just wasn't getting calls, wasn't getting any, any contact in a normal way and was always avoided. So I thought maybe she was upset with me, but I just didn't want to pressure her because I know she'd been through a lot. And so you, you mentioned text messages. Uh Was there a change in those messages? Yes. How so um just little things like if you capitalize the letter I and periods and um emojis just things like that things just didn't sound right and it was, it just fell off when I was receiving those texts. Do you recall the last time you spoke with her on the phone? The last time I directly spoke with Tyley was on the 30th with JJ on facetime. So the same day that I saw them. So you facetimed with them later that day and then you never spoke with her again on the phone, but you going back to those text messages. Uh You did you keep receiving text messages throughout September of 2019? Yes. And uh are those the messages that you felt were different? Yes. Did you respond to those messages? Yes. Hm. After, after the beginning of September, did you continue to receive money from Elis Venmo? I think. So. Do you recall how often? I think maybe a couple more times. So, maybe two or three. And did you receive any more money from Laurie Vallo? Yes. And how would she send that? So, she started sending money after I had not heard from her for, since that day she started sending money on cash app. I think she made a separate account and just tried to send money and it kept denying it because it was a new account. Um I think it was all through cash up at that point at just random times. Ok. And was it in response to you asking for money or was it just sent? Do you recall? It was just sent. Yeah, after Charles Vallow died, did you ever speak with your mom about her getting married again? Yes. And do you remember when that conversation was maybe a few weeks after, after he passed away after he was gone? Yes. And what did she tell you about that? It wasn't really a conversation. She just said a one off thing like I'll be married again soon and I disregarded her and told her that I think that's crazy. Or maybe she's talking about in the next life. It wasn't a real conversation. It was just a comment she made and I completely dismissed what she said. So she didn't give you any details about who she was marrying? No, when she was getting married. No. Other than soon. Just soon. Yeah. Ok. Did your mom ever mention the name Chad Daybell to you? I don't think so. No. I know she was becoming spiritual if you want to call it that, um, for a long time. But she doesn't, I only knew Melanie. I didn't know anybody else that she was spending a ton of time with in a and when you say Melanie, which, which Melanie Melanie Gibb? Ok. Did you contact your mother after November 27th? When you were contacted by the Gilbert police? I immediately contacted her um, after they left. Uh and uh what did you say to her? I asked her what is going on, why are they asking, why are the cops asking? Were Tyley and JJ R? And she said, and she asked me like, what did they ask? And I said, they asked for Tyley and NJ and I said, what's going on? And she just proceeded to say I'll take care of it, you know, don't worry about anything. And then she's like, that's it. Like I got it at that point. Did you know where your mother was? No, she had never told you where she was. No, we speculated based off of the Yellowstone thing, but I didn't have an idea where she actually was and she did, you didn't know she was in Rexburg, Idaho and she never told you that. No. Did you try to contact your mother on Thanksgiving? Yes. Did she respond to you? No. Did you ever have contact after that with your mother before she was arrested? I think she sent an email. Um, not too long, maybe within a couple of weeks and the nature of the email was everything's fine. Everything's gonna be ok. Don't worry about me. I've got Jesus on my side, blah, blah, blah, but basically just saying it's ok. I've got things handled your honor. I have no further questions at this time. All right. Thank you, Mister Wood cross-examination, Mister Pryor. Good afternoon. Can you tell me how old you are? 28. Yeah. You mentioned a number of times that you were receiving money from uh Tyley and uh Laurie, is that right? And uh 2018, 2019. Yes. Sound about right. Yeah. 5456 years ago. Yeah. Uh financially. Is there a reason why they were sending you money? Um We were just a young family and I just needed help and I was asking my mom for help. You were a young family with Children of your own. Yes. Ok. And just difficulty supporting yourself. Yeah. So your sister Tyley was helping out sometimes? Yeah. And that was consistent with her character, wasn't it? Absolutely, very caring person, very, very kind person. Yep. Uh She was in many ways more of a mother figure to JJ than Laurie was, would you agree with that? I think she was his big sister. Right. Very caring of JJ. Very, very um protective of JJ. Would you agree with that? She loved him? Yeah. And she understood him better than almost anybody. Correct? Sure. He had tremendous challenges as a young autistic, seven year old autistic child. Right. And of all your siblings, you would probably say that Tyley was probably the, the kindest, the gentlest and the most understanding of JJ. Would that be fair? Sure. Um um now um you, you mentioned that um Laurie called you to let you know that um Charles had died. Yes, she didn't tell you that Alex gunned him, gunned her down in, in the the house, right? No, she, she lied to you. Yes, that it was a heart attack. Yes. So you're, you're Laurie's son, natural son, right? Yes. So Laurie Vallon lied to her son the first time saying that uh Charles died of a heart attack, correct? Now, there's a lot of lying in a lot of places and Laurie lied a lot to you, right? Other people too. Yeah, but Laurie lied a lot to you. Yeah. And then yeah, and then you mentioned the name Melanie Gibb was Melanie Gibb on, in on this lying to you as well about covering things up. I didn't speak to Melanie Gibb, ok. But Laurie and Val Laurie and Melanie were the best of friends, right? You could say that. Yeah. And Laurie, uh, met Melanie because Melanie was teaching classes about religion and about various religious topics. And Laurie gained an interest in that and that's how that friendship started. Correct. I'm not exactly sure. She was at our Christmas party one time and then she was there as her friend. So I didn't know what their exact connection was. When was that Christmas party? 2018? Ok. And, uh, the two of them were together and it was abundantly clear that the two of them were very, very close friends, right? Sure. Ok. At the time that your mother notified you, you were at work. Is that right? Yes. So did you get that message while you were, uh, actually working or did, was it over a break or how did that transpire? So I was in the middle of my work day and she called me and then I went over there after work and, and where were you working at that time? At anytime? Fitness? Ok. And so you took a break? Do you need to take a break? Now? You're good. Ok. You took a break and, um, your mother called you or texted you and said, um, there was a heart attack. No mention of self defense. No, no mention that Alex shot uh Charles in self defense, right? No, she was clearly lying to her son right now. The fight that occurred between Charles and Alex Tyley was there and she was implicated in that. Correct. Yes. And she was present for that fight in that entire altercation from what you understand. Correct objection states, facts, not in evidence overall. Correct. From what I understand. Yes. Ok. Now, um you mentioned that your, your father isn't uh Joseph Ryan. Correct. No, but are you aware that your mother in 2018 received a sizable life insurance policy from Char from Joseph Ryan. I am now. Yes, you are now like right now, I mean, I, I heard that later on. Yes. Oh, ok. Yeah. So you're aware that uh financially Laurie Vallo had a significant amount of money as of middle or late of 2018. Correct? Yes. Ok. During this time that there was discussion with Charles about financing, was it Charles Vallo who was the um primary financer of the family's expenses? Yes, your mother chose not to work. She worked, I think in the beginning and then I think he just took over. I'm not sure I was a child. Ok. So when there was financial issues, it was your mother putting this all on Charles to, to provide for the family? Is that fair? Yeah. Ok. And you already previously mentioned that you communicate with Tyley at least like once a month. Is that fair or was it more frequently than that? Can you repeat the question? I'm sorry, you communicated with Tyley at least once a month. Was that fair growing up or? Well, in the last couple of years. Oh, yeah. Ok. And, and the manner that you would communicate was by text message primarily. Ok. And how often would JJ would you communicate with JJ? Um, I mean, it really depends. Kylie and I, I would see them more often so I didn't have much time for them not being around. So before that it wasn't once a month, it was a lot more frequent. They lived in the same place and I would go see them. Ok. And when you uh communicated with Tyley or excuse me, when you communicated with JJ, uh it was always Tyley there, right? Usually. Yeah, not Laurie, she would be there too. Ok. Now you mentioned that you saw Tyley on August 30th in Mesa Arizona. That was the last time you saw them. Is that right? Yes. Ok. And you had mentioned that Tyley was obviously upset. Yes. Ok. Did you have any prior information that lie just did not want to go to Idaho? No, because I didn't know she was going to Idaho? Ok. So she was obviously upset about something. Yeah. And it was the day that they were packing up to leave to go to Idaho. Is that right? Yes. And prior to that time, there was no indication that Tyley was upset about anything else. Is that right? I don't know how to answer that question. Ok. That's fair. Do you remember that? And, and from August 30th, you then had a facetime call with both Tyley and JJ later that afternoon, later that evening. Do you know about what time that was probably when I got home. So, anywhere between 7 to 8. Yeah. Ok. And do you, you don't know where they were at that point though? Right. They were back at the house in, um, Gilbert. Yes. Ok. They hadn't left but they were preparing to leave. There was that they were leaving in the morning from what I understood was Tyley still upset about the fact that she was leaving for Idaho. Not on the phone call. No. Ok. Now, on the, um, back in late November you had then had an occasion to talk with your mother. Is that right after the Gilbert police spoke with you? Yes. And again, your mother lied to you again. Yes. Was Melanie Gibb there? Right on the phone had any indication that Melanie Gibb was there listening in on the phone call. No, you don't know whether she was or not or you just don't know. I have no idea if she was there. Now, your, your, your mother is a strong personality, right? Would you agree with that? Yeah, she's not someone that people can tell her what to do. Would you agree with that? Not necessarily? Ok. So you think she could be influenced very easily, right? That's a big gap which I mean, not, not influential and influential. Ok. But you would agree that your mother is one to speak her opinion when she has an opinion about a subject, right? Not necessarily. Ok. Did you have an occasion to ever interact or observe the way your mother talks to her friends, let's say Melanie Gibb, how she interacts with someone like Melanie Gibb. Yes. And that sort of interaction between them? Your mother was a wallflower or did she tend to speak her opinion when she spoke with her good friend, Melanie Gibb? Can you define wildflower? Wildflower? Someone very passive who wouldn't argue? Someone who would just accept the way things are? Um She did not like confrontation. OK. She avoided it. So take that for what it is. I don't know. Ok. So if getting in a discussion with Melanie Gibbs, she would avoid confrontation. Is that what you're telling me? Yes. OK. Did she ever tell you in late November after the police called you that uh JJ and Tyler were with Melanie Gibb? No. Yeah, you judge. I think that's all I have. Thank you, your honor. All right. Thank you, Mister Pryor. Can I redirect just briefly? Go ahead. You were just asked about kind of your mother's personality. Um What if she was a wallflower? And you said that you believed your mom had a strong personality but that she, I'm an object. I don't recall that testimony over. But you said you, you thought your mom could be influenced. Yes. Earlier, you testified that your mom your mom had become more religious over the years and you were asked if she could be influenced? Yes. Do you believe your mother was influenced by Chad Dll objection? Judge grounds. It's speculation. There's no foundation to base what he's basing this on. It's, it's a question of belief. It's a rule 100%. I think she would be, could be influenced. Yes. Ok. And my question was, do you believe she was influenced by Chad Del Judge again? I'm going to object foundation speculation overruled. Yes. Thank you. Your honor. I have no further questions. All right. On that very last point. If you'd like Mr Pryor Recross, if not, we'll be concluded with the witness and just limited to that last line of questioning, you objected on all Lowry cross your honor. I would just note, I, I think that question was directly in line with, with his cross. Understood all while we cross judge. Am I permitted to go forward? Yes, but only on that last uh question or two. Now in um August of 2000 and um 18 or August of 2000, excuse me, August of 2019. You had never heard of Chad Daybell. Is that right? Correct. And you testified previously that your mother said, and please let me get to the quote and it was a few weeks after Charles passed away and Charles passed away in, in, in July of 2019. Right? You said I will be married again soon. But she didn't specify who she was talking about. Right. And at that point in July of 2019, you didn't know very much about Chad Dll either, did you? No, had never even heard the name. Right. No. And then in, in August almost September of 2019. Correct. Yeah, you had never heard of Chad Del. You didn't even know where or why they were going to Idaho, did you? No. And then we fast forward to November 2 months later, within 60 days, you have a conversation with your mother about um where's JJ? Correct? And at that point, you'd never heard or mentioned the name Chad Dll. Is that right? Correct. And then subsequent to that, you mentioned the fact that your mother, there was a call in a communication where your mother had been locked up and at that point you had a confrontation call with her and at that point, you never heard about Chad Daybell, correct? No, in December of 2019 there was a release and that's how we found out that she was married. Ok. And that she was, the kids were missing and that's how we found out. Ok. So after December of 2019, after everything started processing, that's when you drew this conclusion that Chad Del must be influencing her. It wasn't anything up until December of 2019. Is that fair? I mean, they ran away together. So I understand that. But prior to December of 2019, to your knowledge, Chad Del wasn't even in the picture. Is that right? Yeah, I have nothing else. Judge. Thank you. All right. Um All right, that will conclude the testimony. Then of this witness is the witness gonna be recalled at any point, Mister Wood, the R A we approach. Yes. All right. That will conclude the testimony of Mr Ryan. Then mister Ryan, uh you potentially may be recalled at some point in this case. If so, you'll be contacted either by the state or the defense, otherwise, uh you are permitted to step down and that concludes your testimony for today.
