Living the 23rd Psalm || A Conversation with Brian and Peri Zahnd

good morning welcome to word of life church online this is now quarantine Sunday number seven not quite sure when we'll be gathered together and exactly what that'll look like it'll happen again but I can tell you word of Life Church will be prudent we'll be careful not because we're not eager to gather together we sure are but because caring for the most vulnerable is a Christian ethic because we're called to love our neighbor as ourselves right so that's why we continue to do this like this so it's quarantine Sunday number seven for those of you keeping score but it's a very special day for Perry and me because today is our 40th wedding anniversary way back May 3rd 1980 1980 I said I do you did too we have and it's been 40 years now in some ways it seems like yesterday in some ways so you know what do you do when it's your 40th anniversary and it falls on a Sunday do you just get up and preach a sermon oh you don't do that so I thought we would just sit down and and have a conversation with you it is the 4th Sunday of Easter also and so on the fourth Sunday of Easter the theme is Jesus as the Good Shepherd so we have the Gospel reading from John 10 and then we we heard Psalm 23 and so I thought that Perry and I would have a discussion a conversation that you can listen in on and if we want to put a you know a title on this conversation I think I would call it living the 23rd psalm now Perry I know that you love the Psalms it might be your favorite book in the Bible for I think so so explain yourself how is it the Psalms like I do love the phones and it is my favorite book in the Bible I am there was a period of time when I couldn't hardly read the Bible at all because I just began to have a lot of questions and confusion and I just didn't know what to do with the picture that I thought the Bible portray of God particularly the Old Testament and the God that I had come to know in my heart was not I just didn't understand but I came back to the Bible I want to say I love the Scriptures now because I see them in a very different way I love all the scriptures and I love the Old Testament but the Psalms is the book you know the Bible teaches us about God all those books 65 books teach us about God but one book we engage with God and it is the prayer book it is the prayer book of the people of God and has been for 3,000 years and when I think about the fact that I am praying 3000 year old prayers I mean it just it roots me it grounds me and in those very emotional prayers the Psalms are I have freedom to process my own emotions to own up to my own emotions to process them and the safe place to process particularly dark emotions is with God and it's just been a place of a great healing for me and I love the Psalms alright so the best Psalm I think the most famous song the most popular song is Psalm 23 David's greatest hit I won't argue with you there and so I thought that would be like a framework for our conversation that is somewhat reminiscing over 40 years but also just testified so it starts out the Lord is my shepherd now if it's if it's you and me together thinking about this and praying this it's like Jesus is the Good Shepherd and Jesus has been at the center of our lives I mean very center I mean we've met and the catacombs which was you know this Christian coffeehouse in Saint Joseph we met in 1975 I don't remember when we first met I mean I remember meeting you but I don't remember what the date was July the 12 okay I said I knew I knew it was summertime I know the summer time and I met you at the khattak it was my first time at the cat you'd been there for a while and it was my first night there and you caught my eye and and then it took me a few months to work up the courage to ask you on a date oh my goodness I was I've never been so nervous and I called you up and and invited you to well seek for a date for us I mean we would go to movies later on but I mean at this point in our life what was it we I would take you to the catacombs on a Saturday night and then we got the pizza afterwards yes we would but let me tell you even this morning I was reminded of something that happened 45 years ago yeah because we've been going together for the longest time this morning I was getting dressed and I was trying to decide between two pairs of shoes I know what story you're gonna tell and so I would tell a little story about our first what I would call our half date it wasn't her first date it was our high because when Brian called me on the phone ostensibly to borrow a record album and he's commander of me yes he said yeah I could meet you at the catacombs and then maybe if you want I could take you home afterwards and so I was so excited but I was to be picked up by my friend rod and his girlfriend Kristy as normal and I was trying to decide what to wear and I was trying to decide between two pairs of shoes it was a brown leather shoe or a blue blue tennis shoes and so I put one of each on and then I heard rod honk the horn and I ran out the door and I did not realize it until I was at the catechol Terry that I had shoes even though it was November I just had to take my shoes off and go barefoot the whole evening but it was it was sort of a sign of things to come because yes that is right so we went on that first date and we went to Pizza Hut afterwards and what we have a kind of pizza Black Sea some couples have their song we don't have a song we got lots of songs right I made you a playlist today at 40 songs but save that for later we don't have a song but we have a pizza we have a pizza we see black oliver mushroom is off they made our pizza yes and so okay so we got to get in this so we went on our first date and then we got married in May of 1980 40 years ago mm-hmm then next May a year later caleb was born so I always think of Caleb our oldest son I always think of him as like that's the age word of life is and so so we were married May 1980 Kayla was born May 1981 and we're live Church starts in November of 81 so in a span of 18 months we got married had a baby and then had another baby we gave birth to our problem child Fletcher no I'm not really you're not you're not a problem child but so that's you know I mean would people counsel people to do that get married have a baby start a church in 1800 and forgot I went to nursing school in nursing yeah but we didn't read any books people asked me pastor Branagh I'm reading ready to launch a church how do you have any counsel what I only did it once and more or less kind of accidentally and did everything wrong so what would I know about it so anyway so but here I want to return to this though that through it all Jesus has been our Shepherd our guide with us never forsaken sound like that can sound like religious jargon on a Sunday morning I'm telling you it's stone-cold truth that no matter what ups and downs and ins and outs and good times and bad Jesus has been there with us as our Shepherd Jesus the Lord is my shepherd I shall not want you could take that a lot of ways but you know when we were first married and for a good while after we had no dinero my salary was $90 a week and I didn't always get it because the church didn't always have it that's a poor Church that can't afford to pay the pastor 90 . but it is true it really happened that's all but God has always been faithful God always provided and I remember the time Oh probably somewhere just in the 83 84 we were so poor and we'd had pancakes one night for dinner pancakes are cheap yeah and I remember washing the dishes had a pest you know stack of plates three plates for Brian and me and little Caleb in the stack of plates and as I as I turned over a plate two $20 bills floated up from the dish water and it was so incredible and beautiful and we have no idea where they came from but they were gods it's like I told the story on my bzees basement tape on books how we don't know how the divine conspiracy the book showed up in our house but it did we don't know how those two $20 bills got in the dishwater but they were there and two $20 bills did not solve all our financial problems no but at that time it was a help it was a real help and it was just such an encouragement it was just that um it was more than the money it was the sense of God's gonna take care of us just a reminder of God's love and mercy and grace and faithfulness and we've lived that way I mean I don't know people like hearing this but I don't care we've always tied we have always told we have always more than tired always more than we've never thought about doing anything other I mean income comes in what's the first thing you do you honor God with it people say well do you still believe in that tithing stuff yes yes I do because my dad taught me this and he was taught it by his dad he was taught it by his aunt and it goes back all the way I think Abraham taught somebody and here we are it's a sign of a faithful covenant that we have with our God yeah amen and God we don't be legalistic about the type of not you always give more hey Ben okay amen we have not wanted no and we're sitting here in this it's kind of lonely we're sitting in this enormous sanctuary we moved in here in 96 that was uh that was quite an ordeal that was quite an ordeal and there was a period of time when we just did not know how we could possibly finish this alone there was a summer I think it was the summer of 95 when just all construction had ceased we had it all money had seized yes we had this big shell of a building open but even the the interior had no concrete poured yet yeah and it was open to the outdoors and so we have we had this pond right in the center of our church and we came in here one day and there were ducks there were ducks was the most discouraged thing you're trying to build this big church building and got a duck pond yes world's most expensive duck pond yes it was a hard time and I remember we we drove to Oklahoma to meet with a ministry couple that we knew Bob and Cindy and they were business people and they knew about we won that's why we we were not we were not business people we didn't know much about money but we were trying to find a way to to get more financing and come up with some creative ideas and so we drove all the way to have dinner with this couple and I remember we shared our situation and said do you have any advice do you have any you know can you tell us how to do it and I remember they both looked at us and they said wow we have absolutely no idea what you could possibly do but we believe in God and we believe in you they told us they believe in God and they believed it I was a big deal when I said they believed in us and that it was going to be so exciting to see what God did and how we were finally able to finish this building and it was the truth it was so exciting but remember driving home from Oklahoma thinking we did not go what we did not get what we went for but we got something better I mean our our hearts were uplifted and we had this shot of face just a word of encouragement from somebody we trusted that said you're gonna you're gonna do it we believe in God believe they said was your the kind of people that will find a way yeah you're the kind of people that appeal succeed mm-hmm and throughout our marriage we've always had this this mantra faith will find a way we'll find a way so you don't despair you don't give up you just keep going so the Lord is my shepherd that's been true it's still true it's always been true Jesus is the Good Shepherd I shall not want we've had challenges but the Lord's always been there at the right time always came through somehow Jehovah Ditka time that's yeah people not gonna get that but okay so ho a nick of time some of you already brew named for God sort of the Lord is my shepherd I shall not want he makes me lie down in green pastures he leads me he leads me leads me beside still waters he restores my soul he leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake sometimes I think of that a little bit like this he leads me in the right paths because his name is faithful amen you don't have to work as taking care of businesses his name and you know as I look back I mean it's funny because we talked about 40 years of marriage I mean that's you know today it's not the 40th anniversary of Word of Life Church that'll come up next year it's it's our 40th wedding anniversary yet our life and our marriage has been lived so in concert it's all inexorably connected with word of life church that for us to talk about our marriages also to talk about the church because it's all been together no they're not the same I get that but they have happened at the same time and it's all we've ever done it's all we've ever done so yeah I want to say this the Lord has always helped us find the right path and the path you start out on that is the right path to start out on doesn't always stay the right path forever people think okay here's what I start with Jesus and so I'll have to do is just stay on this path forever well maybe not maybe that path comes to a dead end and he leads maybe that path doesn't really lead to where ultimately you want to go it was the it was the starting point yeah Rocky Mountain National Park you know there's more destinations than there are trail heads so you start at one of the trail heads but then you have to make some decisions along the way do I go rat or do I go left and III feel I can very confidently say that for 40 years Jesus has led us onto the right path not without some backtracking and pulling out the map and compass and going I think we got off here somewhere I mean that happens that's life but he's always been faithful to lead us onto the right path because we've never stopped seeking and so we start I mean you know you and I we're just growing up Jesus freaks we met at the catacombs the center of the Jesus Movement in st. Joe and that was the path we were on I put some old Jesus music songs on that playlist I can't wait yes I got some Paul Clarke and got some Phil Kagi got some Rasband that's a little bit for me but I put paint a picture because you like that yes they do alright so we start off with the Jesus Movement but that's that that path petered out after a while I mean if you said okay I'm just gonna stay on this but well it is it ends you know and so we had to find other paths about 1985 it ended yeah and so we have to keep going and there's been several you know and times there's been some fairly are you sure this is the path and we'd pray and we'd see yeah this is the path it doesn't seem like the path but the witnesses it's the right path go ahead and follow it and you know what we've never seriously gone very far down on wrong yeah well nobody came wrong we would go wait a minute we'd find a different way since that the Holy Spirit was always there always there beckoning leading inviting all right so and I do I I do know a little bit about what you might want to talk about because I know this a big deal so they're in that little part of the the 23rd psalm there's that line he restores my soul it's in the context of being on a path being led being guided sometimes it's green pasture sometimes it's still waters but this you know that's what the Shepherd does Shepherd leads the seabees leading the Sheep and all along that way there is a restoration of the soul my soul you restore my soul talk about that well I'll talk about the Camino de Santiago and most of you know that Brian and I walked 500 miles across Spain on an ancient pilgrim path and we did it in the fall of 2016 for the first time for the first time because we've done it since then but you know it was it was God's provision for us it was God's Way to restore us it can't the Camino came to us at exactly the right time we were both very very weary very tired very wounded and we went on the Camino knowing that God was going to meet us there but having no idea how or what it was at first it was our first sabbatical it's yeah that's one word to use but was our first break yes I mean I personally had never gone more than one Sunday without preaching number very few Sundays that I didn't preach a handful maybe one a year for vacation later on early on there weren't vacations vacation vacation who who has time for a vacation who has money for a vacation but we then took a seven week break we weren't here for seven weeks just like you haven't been here for seven we weren't here and that was a that was the first time in 35 years at that point that we'd ever done that mm-hmm and it did restore our souls it restored our souls in a way that I still marvel over mm-hmm there was certainly can I say magic involved yeah you can say that can I say the Holy Spirit just so took us under under his wings and Shepard at us the Good Shepherd was there leading us it was just beautiful and we talked about our lives pre Camino and post coming we do because we came home so changed so different and so ready to throw ourselves back into the work we weren't tired anymore I will talk about this though so in 2016 we walked the Camino France seis 500 miles 2018 a little tune-up Camino won't go you know that the Portuguese Camino two weeks and then last year last fall 2019 we went back and did the big France ace 500-mile Camino in 2016 when we walked that Camino we got lots of blisters and our feet hurt and all that 20:19 no blisters our feet didn't hurt and we're you know why when we were walking I says we were it will ways into the 2019 last year Camino well no blisters and our feet don't hurt we're wearing the same kind of shoes same kind of socks we haven't done anything different and yet this one is pain-free and the other one was painful and then we talked about that we well we were just walking along and I just I felt like the Lord showed me that we brought all the pain with us all that pain in our feet we brought it with us in our bodies but that it was draining out camino drew it out yeah draining out through our feet into that sacred path that mystical sacred path something was happening all that pain was coming out through our feet and it's as if it had to hurt and that the pain itself probably it did hurt a lot but we finished by the time we were finished right there was no more 2016 we we ended without any blisters not any pain and then in 2019 we did the whole thing without any pain no 2019 it was just a job walk in the park it was it was a joy all right but sometimes sometimes you know the journey through life isn't always a walk in the park yay though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil for you are with me for you are with me and that particular verse will always be the verse that I think about 2012 when we went through a terrible illness with our baby grandson who was just two years old he it was our first grin my first grandson diagnosed with cancer at the age of two and it was a very very awful thing he was very sick we knew there was a possibility we would lose him we were walking to the valley of the shadow of death and you know people began to pray for us and there was so much prayer happening for for Jude for our family for us and I felt I felt that prayer and I never knew before what it was like to feel prayer feel the prayers of others in such a very powerful way and I was I received the peace that passes understanding in the midst of that horrible drama that horrible time I felt peace come into my heart and I knew that it was as a result of all that prayer the peace that passes understanding that the book of Philippians talks and that piece that new impartation of peace was something that I have kept with me forever I should say that thanks be to God little Jude was healed he is a hundred percent he is well there is you know the cancer was gone we also knew at that time we had this just absolute understanding that we didn't Jew didn't get healed because we earned it or because we had more people praying or anything like that it was just it was just the thing that happened the faith you know I mean every time I tell this story it's it's a story that has a happy ending but I know that so many people have a similar story and it doesn't have a happy end and I always want to tell people I want to stress that it isn't though we've we have the secret no no and we found out how to get God to do what we think God ought to do every time it's not that at all we're testifying that when we walk through the valley of the shadow of death we were not alone that Jesus was with us and the prayers of people we felt them they were with us they sustained as they carried us during that time and if the unthinkable of had happened Jesus still would have been with us and the prayers would have been even more important one of the things I learned during that time I mean I was I was already well established in in the practice the discipline of a morning Liturgy of prayer but it was during that time when my emotion when my emotions could run amuck that having a having this discipline this this path this structure this habit this habit of prayer that I could just you know lean into I saw how valuable that was so yeah we walk through the valley of the shadow of death in that sense and the Lord was with us we can testify ah no stay on maybe for a little bit a few more moments on some on a painful thought you prepare a table for me in the presence of my enemies well we talked about you know the theme has been journey and paths and being led everybody that knows much about word of life knows that beginning in 2004 we we began to walk some paths that were in some ways they were very ancient paths but they were new for us and not everybody was thrilled not ever but what he was willing to go down that path and a lot of people left and that's okay I mean that's okay I didn't like it but I understand it I get it but then there were people that left and and and friends became enemies because it wasn't enough they just said we don't think we can go down that path they felt incumbent upon them to say you know and you're wrong and you're a deceiver and a false teacher and you know and sinless and emails right before we go on vacation and and just mean stuff and so when Frank I mean if it's just an enemy enemy whatever but when friends start acting like enemies that can be very painful very painful but I learned that that Jesus won't allow you to focus on your enemy he just kind of says sit down and let's talk sit at the table with me and and if they want to and they can join the table or that maybe they don't but we learned to sit with Jesus and we learned to forgive I don't think I'm doing a very good time that's the pain that we were being healed from mostly mostly that we've been in 2016 and I just do I do want to tell people we're not just putting on a brave face right now we're really healed all right so we're well and but but when we were going through that and when friends were acting like enemies and sending us mean and it wasn't always just church people sometimes other pastors or whatever that was painful but Jesus stayed with us and sat with us and we might have felt like we were in the presence of enemies but Jesus is just saying don't worry about that just this is the table I prepared for you mm-hmm eat this read this imbibe this drink this absorb this don't don't worry forget about that just sit here at the table with me and I think about the fact that life is good and God wants us to enjoy it and that particular passage of Scripture you prepared before me in the presence of my enemies I always think about a beautiful picnic that God has laid out mm-hmm and then I'm just sit down and enjoy but I say no god there's a problem over there and there's a problem over there enemy over there and I can't enjoy this until you've solved all my problems till you've made everything right and God says he just repeats the invitation no I want you to sit down and enjoy this moment yes this may be really good what I'm giving you right here in this moment and the but the problems take care of themselves and believe that at the right time they all disappear surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever I can just say I don't know I expect goodness and mercy men I mean I know there'll be hard times I know there's valleys of shadow of death and enemies lurking in the bushes but ultimately what I really do I don't go through life expect you know when's the next valley of shadow death you know what enemy's gonna jump out behind the next bush I'm really not expecting that I'm expecting the goodness and mercy of God amen and as we look back over 40 years it's been goodness it is very very blessed and it's been good I'll just say every moment has been good but overall overall it becomes a tapestry of grace that's how fast it all gets great woven together in the right way so well we're back we're at the end of this 23rd psalm we're about out of our time we haven't really talked about marriage per se we've told stories of our 40-year journey as a married couple and if people ask me you know what's the success what's the secret to staying married for 40 years I don't know not getting divorced I don't know I mean I think it's it's it's I don't have a lot of great profound counsel other than don't quit and be quick to forgive you marriage is something you build a soulmate is not some you don't go on find a soulmate oh I found myself you you find a person you commit to them and then they become your soulmate Stanly higher wall says you always marry the wrong person which is his somewhat humorous way of saying I know we didn't but but but if you go with the idea oh well you know Brian and Perry just they the stars lined up and they found each other but you know that didn't work out for me and part of it is part of it is we we were we grew up together I mean we went on our first date I was 16 you were 15 right and and then we got married young and we've just grown up together and we in our vows meant something and now I'm starting to sound preachy so I think oh I think I'll invite us all to come to the table of the Lord let me see just a little bit a little bit about marriage somebody said to me just a week or two ago I bet you and Pastor Brian never fight Lord and it's like oh my goodness I wish people didn't have that perception people don't know me very well if they say that well we both have some strong both of us aren't neither one of us are wilting lilies that's true we both have strong opinions and yes we fight and there are people who could testify to that truth I mean because they've seen us not get along I think though part of it is we try to fight like Christians we try to fight like crazy right and we forgive and forgiveness is the answer there is no future without forgiveness but there's something for me and I think is even a deeper wisdom that goes beyond forgiveness and it's acceptance it's understanding people are who they are yeah it's not my job to make Brian the best Brian he could possibly be and I might not even know what that best thing is I have my ideas but just we need to accept one another for what we are walking lots of forgiveness laughs love and be grateful the best thing that you can do to work on your marriage is to work on yourself mm-hmm well you a min that Amen that's profound that's true rock on Perry

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Length: 33min 35sec (2015 seconds)

Published: Sun May 03 2020