LIVE | Global Fintech Fest | Macro Fundamentals Of FinTech Landscape: CRED Founder Kunal Shah | N18L

back here on stage and I think we couldn't have asked for a better speaker to stir things up you usually need someone like kunalsha who is a agent provocateau a post on a post lunch session so Canal it's an absolute pleasure thanks very much for joining us you know we just heard from Valley there uh a very long uh introduction with with the various achievements and Milestones that you've been able to clock as an entrepreneur but there's another side to this man that I'm going to try and unravel today and that is the digital Yogi side uh so Kunal which do you identify with with more today in this phase of your life the entrepreneur or the digital Yogi I don't know I I guess uh I think everybody's beard can be classified as Yogi uh but I think uh the uh I think we share one thing in common we are both philosophy Majors on a fintech stage uh and I think uh I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing I don't know I don't know uh uh I think the the the the need for seeking truth and the need for kind of going beyond the questions of uh why I think just allows us to kind of be more thing and I think in India anybody who seems to be truth seeking is easily classified as Yogi so I don't know we have just the bar is low okay well let's let's link the two the aspiration for truth seeking with the second uh uh word in our in our conversation that we're meant to have money can you make money out of Truth seeking is truth seeking a profitable business model that's a great question um if you and shouldn't you've had the privilege and I envy you for that part that you've managed to meet very accomplished people in your life and when you go really deeper you'll realize that they are mostly philosophical when you see at a certain level they are all some version of Truth Seekers and I believe that uh a lot of uh I remember like there's a thing where Shahrukh Khan is saying that do philosophy after you make money but I do believe that you cannot make money without really being philosophical about things because if you are not having depth in what you think depth in what you know uh you're gonna mostly remain at surface level uh which you'll find everybody at and very few people have any interest in any depth whatsoever uh and and surprisingly it's less crowded uh uh the profit pools are also less crowded when you go to depth of things you know let's talk about the profit pools now Canal since we are talking about the big opportunities in the Headroom for growth to start with I want to understand from you what is it that you want to be what do you Aspire for Fred to be today we are going to situation where a phone company is trying to be a bank a bank is trying to be a fintech uh you know what is it that you wish to be um I think internet uh has enabled many companies to become platforms platforms which can host many businesses now with the India stack and all the infrastructure that has happened in the last digital instructor that happened in the last 10 years and that's coming in the next 10 years we are all in position to build interesting businesses on top of these platforms it's not surprising uh to many Chinese companies when you say or Tick Tock happens to be the largest e-commerce company now and probably going to be probably one of the largest lenders in China for most Chinese it's not shocking and surprising because once you build a platform that has engagement that has users cross-selling services that otherwise don't classify into things makes it hard to believe when we grew up you know when uh departmental stores came we were mostly shocked that's a yeah all of that stuff is starting happening so I think when you can establish an audience trust with that audience ability to build multiple businesses on top of that is going to be easy to do uh although it's not easy for everybody to pull off because you need to get a critical mass of customers to kind of I mean credits view was very simple reward financial behavior which allows good behavior to happen with money most of us are of a generation where we have significantly made more made more money than our parents did yeah and and uh they were not our coaches for money we are we are finding coaches uh on YouTube we are finding coaches everywhere else uh and I think there's a time where good financial behavior is going to be required while there is a floodgates of credit that's going to open but with UPR and now coming into the fall uh we we wanted to just build a company that focuses on good financial behavior and build on top of that and we also focused on the top end of the customers the simply the reason is my previous company was built on uh all of India uh and surprisingly everybody showed up over there and I'm like okay now I should build something that is on the opposite side of the spectrum uh also because of the concentration of profit pools is still very skewed towards the top 30 35 million customers and and you've heard that multiple times yeah the kamath brothers have talked about it to uh multiple Banks if you study the reports at the core of it and I think India still to go through the per capita income growth challenge uh and we've discussed one topic that is kind of connected is the uh the per capita is not going to happen till female participation of Labor increases in the workforce uh we cannot magically expect the 5000 per capita to happen no focused on top end of customer rewarding good financial behavior don't do and simple principle don't sell a product or service that we would not give it to our family or friends okay many things that you've said there Kunal let me try and unpack and we've got about 19 minutes to do that so let me start to unpack uh what you said is the aspiration to be the department store of the fintech world uh I guess uh uh we will not be limited to financial services is what we see uh let me tell you why I believe that's the case uh as much as we love fintech and financial services the average consumer hates it why why does the average consumer hate because uh money causes anxiety in most people right uh imagining imagine spending two hours on an app per day which is giving you stuff about money unless you are a Trader who's hooked on to markets uh for most people it's an anxiety work very well for the zero Brothers yeah but if you notice an average customer they think of financial services app like a petrol pump go there quickly fuel your car and leave yeah right and and if you really want to build a high quality engagement platform you have to actually focus on things that actually make people feel Joy and if you happen to be selling Financial Services over there so be it so I think our view of life is to really build a lifestyle first company a financial services is how we monetize right uh and it's unfortunate I'll put the philosophy angle over here it's unfortunate that we are all known by how we make money but that's not Who We Are well you're not making money yet we are I will I mean making money making money uh for uh fintechs uh I mean we can say what we want but I think unless we had these loss making companies we'd have needs not seen the fintech growth that we have seen so far right uh a bulk of the UPI growth has come subsidized uh and a lot of other entities kind of supporting these growth stories uh and I think they're all investing Behind these uh uh initiatives because it creates distribution it creates a change of behavior and I think we're going to see a long time before kind of profits come in for these and it's not something that it's harder for some of the companies to now achieve many companies I would say in in the unicorns uh majority of the companies that have managed to cross the 100 million or 200 million dollar Revenue run rate are all Financial Services of fintechs right uh and and it's very hard in other categories like you know I mentioned this before but like there are 183 companies that have uh more than thousand crores packed and I would say 40 of that Pat is financial services yeah and funny enough like the total number of retail companies in the 183 companies with thousand crores plus Pat is two maybe maybe two or less than two the thing is we are we are far away from like expecting profit pools and something else but Financial Services can make money uh the question is when the question is when and and if you have investors who support your ambition to kind of build the scale we we found ourselves in a very like a good lucky opportunity we focus on credit cards and credit and and since then the whole Market has kind of changed uh covet was a huge accident to credit Behavior Uh we are seeing now with credit on UPI all of these things are going to get into a great mode we find ourselves in a very lucky spot to be building uh uh and and to me uh making money large-scale revenues and profits I think it's a choice that companies will make based on what kind of a capital support they can grow to match their Ambitions okay I I don't know how to label on this too much but I still want to understand from you you know many people and what I'm hearing from you as well is that it's it's if we bring down marketing spends if we bring down advertising Sprints we will be profitable it almost seems like it's a switch that you want to turn on and off but you haven't decided when you want to turn that switch on and off when do you feel of believe that you will be ready to turn off that advertising and marketing switch to be able to get to profitability well uh our Focus was to focus on customers uh who currently have good credit scores and a credit card that's the focused customer we have and and today we have I would say 35 to 37 of the market share uh uh we we want to probably get to 50 55 Market uh we have significantly reduced our marketing expense because the brand is already kind of known actually I'm curious how many of you use cred over here this is a good time to explore what the app is about uh and and uh the the intent is to like keep coming to this conferences till the whole room kind of almost raises hand because almost everybody has how many of you do not have a credit card over here yeah so that's my target market uh and and I I just need to see maybe at a 60 70 penetration over here and uh we can choose to not do marketing uh uh but there is one interesting Trend that has happened in marketing uh when we started our customer acquisition cordlessly brows X today we are operating at one tenth of that customer acquisition cost uh and by the way even then the customer acquisition cost was significantly lower than what let's say a credit card company would have paid to acquire that customer so I think for us so what brought down the cost of acquisition just enjoy fact that there is more latency as far as the brand is concerned or has something changed in the competitive landscape or has something changed as far as consumer behaviors I think three four things first the uh us kind of front loading the brand Investments uh like investing in things like IPL investing in like advertisements and all of that uh Financial Services unfortunately if you're building a consumer brand requires consumers to feel trust that you are somebody with some credibility that they want to kind of like credit card bills a large amount of money that people need to do with an app that is like we're gonna be five years old in November yeah right uh uh so I think doing that uh requires some amount of upfront brand Investments and other thing is this the market environment is kind of because the capital environment kind of dried up reduce the competitive intensity uh also consumers are way more savvier about digital things they are looking to do almost everything digitally so for example we launched a UPI maybe a few months ago like five six months ago and we've already kind of seen ourselves get to the number four spot with still focused on a very small customer base so and and this is surprisingly here to us as well by the way interesting data for you uh credit card customers yeah do more transactions on the API than they do on credit cards uh in terms of count of transactions and and that obviously like it was not on a roadmap to kind of go into scan and pay a P2P but we realize that these customers are actually you know this is the like the old times where we used to have uh expensive uh cell networks and there should be this outgoing people and incoming people yeah uh today we are noticing that uh the credit card customers are probably playing the big outgoing role because they spend a lot of money on up and transfer money and many UPI handles my gut tells me that they are still on the incoming basis and very soon they're going to become outgoing as well when they start using that to scan and paste I think you're going to see the waves of growth in UPR and cohorts which is going to be exciting you know but the fact that you're going to be turning five uh now Kunal and you gave us a glimpse of what this journey has been like this five-year Journey has been like have you mapped out what the next five years potentially could look like what is the aspiration that you have over the next five years I think uh creating more things that this cohort of customer values uh be it so we have built a small uh shopping platform that is helping d2c Brands kind of host their products and we have a zero commission store which kind of like today for most brands that are listed on our platform we do equal amount of sales that they get to many other major platforms on their thing and I think just our ability to launch a service and see that traction grow gives us the confidence that as long as we do a good job uh as a company uh we do not have the philosophy to be first in everything like be part of everything first but do it right uh do it with something that people will appreciate the quality behind the effort uh and and build for a cohort that is more Discerning so we'll keep doing that so in terms of should we focus on only on Financial Services the answer is no should we focus on making money on cross-selling so and even in financial services we cross sell for banks nbfcs insurance companies we just want to keep building a superior engagement platform that allows seamless offering of some of these Services now and and I think there was a time where it was unclear what is the role of a fintech a bank all of these were like like many years ago you mentioned about BB on a panel and it was a hot topic that where does the line start and end but I think we've all found and almost sort of merging aren't they I think it's just a coexistence I I often is it a happy marriage uh I think uh marriage is a big word to use uh I think uh uh there is a coexistence at this point of time uh what I know for a fact that everybody has realized what value each party brings to the table uh I believe fintechs are nothing but this new fancy branches which customers love to go to right and therefore cross-selling at these places you may or may not want but if some banks benefit from doing that other banks will kind of take a notice and want to be there right and I think uh there was a time where uh you could only withdraw money from inside a bank then slowly it became an ATM inside the bank then it became an ATM outside the bank yeah and now the most used ATM is at the mall now right so I think financial service is going to go through the same Journey where cross sell will happen at platforms that have the highest amount of Engagement highest amount of time spent and the joy of actually feeling like going over there and I think therefore the battle is going to be of Engagement more about uh the ownership of customers is not a function of who's registered with you it's about where do they spend the time fair enough but uh and I was talking to Mr kamath just before this uh and he said one of the big things that he expects to see is consolidation with banks actually going after fintechs to take this collaboration and this partnership story forward if a bank were to come calling today or a couple of years down the line what would your response be uh you know my my first company freecharge uh was sold to snapdril and Snapdeal has ended up selling it to access bank it still continues to do well uh my view is that these lines are going to uh merge I think they're gonna be very strong Partnerships that will emerge uh either with some strategic things happening between these parties and it's happened in most markets where fintech has been little bit uh let's say at least China will you see that these lines were kind of merged in very interesting ways I think we we now are at a time where uh there is a clear realization that okay these guys can do this well and it's very hard for us to change DNA for example do we foresee that oh we'll become let's say the best lender or best underwriter or best insurance underwriter no I think that's not your aspiration and we don't think uh we'll ever be good at that there are things that we are good at in terms of customer engagement uh experience uh and I think that's going to be a very clear thing that okay ultimately it's going to be about partnership and creating this storefronts that people love going to you didn't answer my question if a bank were to come calling uh I don't know I would love for that to happen uh would it make sense to do it or not uh will require a very different level of uh uh discussion but I I think I don't know what is happening is I don't see that the Strategic the Strategic discussions are already happening now I don't think it's reached to a point where there'll be ownership situations yet I think we are far away from that but I do believe that in five years from now will fintechs have Bank ownerships in them in some ways I see that will there be some fintechs who will have some investments in Banks going forward potentially yes also I think it's going to be interesting how this plays out but I think there is going to be a very clear view that regulator will have on how these things will work and I think they are doing the right thing consistently they're being extremely prudent about how the ecosystems should evolve like what role each place and I think that uh that uh decision on how some of these things will happen will also kind of have a lot of regulatory uh point of view on how this should happen yeah I would imagine that that will be the case the regulation will play either constraint or unshackle the many opportunities that we just but you know I want to talk about the Headroom for growth and including this conference and you know previous conferences there are reports that are out there that beg you know a trillion dollars and a trillion and a half dollars and so on and so forth I want to talk about the here and now you talked about the the customer base that you're going after which is really the top tier the creamy layer so to speak and that is the aspiration that that's what you want to stick with at least in the interim but what's the opportunity for the fintech world today at the end of the day there is the addressable Market there's the monetizable market and there is a big dissonance between the two what is the real opportunity uh global companies love to come to India because India is the diu farm or Mau Farm of the world yes right you see this now in global influences and celebrities also do some India posts now because you get some tons of followers right uh uh arpus unfortunately are not going to come unless right so there's a data that came out recently like like companies like meta have like compared to us we are like probably 40x or 45x on arpu Delta right so we're gonna have a long time before we get there uh and and because of that challenge the income concentration on the top is going to be even more uh accelerated with covet even further uh now the truth is uh while we may all love to kind of build for India and get a lot of things done for India the market concentration of revenue and profit pools so just some data points uh today uh if you look at saving account deposits right uh these 35 million households would probably contribute to like 80 85 of all saving deposits right and and India is a huge country uh uh where we should actually see growth across the cohorts but we do not see that data yet uh today if you look at the credit will have a strong correlation to ability to pay taxes ability to pay consistent taxes that number is public and you can see the number of people paying taxes is still like or filing taxes are like 60 70 million people who are actually paying some taxes around 335 million so we are still in that vicinity but there are opportunities in Agri where I'm hearing a lot of rural markets are showing extraordinary promise because now with digital infra you can create new business opportunities and actually give them access to credit to kind of get yeah do well right uh today UPI a lot of up acquiring companies are able to provide loans to Merchants but historically not accessible uh getting credit so I think the 10 15 years will have a very different shape to more people kind of getting access to credit our Focus was of people credit worthy give them Superior experience but I think most people becoming credit worthy through different mediums with account aggregator with UPI data with GST data there is going to be so many interesting opportunities in the merchant space SME space where a new a set of affluent class is going to get created and I think we are going to see a shift of that for a long time however the factor of uh the the female participation will remain as the nagging Factor because that it is declining and and it's not uh a great thing for the country which is aspiring to have a 10 trillion dollar ambition but the per capita income requires like all genders to participate and I'm glad that you talked about that because this is something that I'm deeply passionate about as well and I completely agree with you forget five ten trillion we cannot do it if we don't have half the population participating in the formal economy uh why do you believe in the startup world today it continues to be so hard for women uh for women Founders to raise capital for women Founders or for women employees to make it to leadership positions who believe even in a conference like this we have so few women being represented here on stage I think I wish I had great answers to this and we've discussed this in the past I wish I wish I can think about what is going on I think it will require serious conscious effort from everybody in the ecosystem to focus on this and improving this metric as if it matters to all of us because we cannot just say that oh the country needs to do something and our contribution is not meaningful in making this happen uh uh leadership positions will happen when we are kind of helping coaching people from right from the the first job to kind of kind of take them along and do more things there is always going to be the societal pressure of oh there is a marriage situation or there is a kid situation which is kind of are the top triggers of women dropping of a Workforce but I think if you really want to see a society that is super evolved and kind of inclusive in every manner all of us will have to contribute uh in terms of startup ecosystem I would say that it looks like it's better at least at least from anecdotal version of when you look at uh let's say Bangalore as an ecosystem you see that thing but again it comes to Tech talent and product Talent if you have come from like I'm probably the only non-stem founder who's uh in the tech ecosystem so uh it was hard for me to raise Capital as well imagine trying to carry a Philosophy degree into trying to raise money uh it doesn't help uh so I think we need to change these uh things and I think Capital now is going to require at least the market we are entering in it's not going to remain only about idea and pedigree it's going to require some traction and I think uh if you are truly thinking about entrepreneurship everybody will have to demonstrate some tractions some product Market fit before they get serious capital and I think we are entering a very problematic time in our startup journey of India that nobody believes they can do a startup till they have Capital it's like saying it's akin to saying that you cannot run till you have Nike shoes it's not the same uh it will make you better at running it will make you faster at running but uh hoping that the only marker of and unfortunately is this the unintended consequence of too much money that's come into this absolutely and how do you unlearn this how do you unlearn worshiping unicorns because we are mythical we should stop worshiping them uh uh uh we have to worship people who have large profit tools you have to worship people who have built companies without Capital we should not celebrate people like Kunal Shah way more than what we should be celebrating there are hundreds of Founders who have built very very profitable companies who are not even known I think we we tend to glamorize uh folks who who should be not as glamorous because this these become the heroes that we want to Chase and I don't think that's a fair thing to do because the country the country always had entrepreneurial Spirit the capital is a new thing capitalism and the kind of capital that we've seen is a new thing and I'm glad that you talked about unicorns being mythical creatures because they are and I think a lot of the bad behavior that's been learned uh it would it would do us well if we unlearn that what do you do with your money today Kunal I I think I I had mentioned this before I do not have any mutual funds any stocks I don't invest I only invest in uh startups is a way of paying it forward I I don't know how many startups I've invested but and I I don't invest for necessarily Financial return always uh it's about just kind of helping the system uh move forward uh uh I I have there was a time when I used to meet Founders and decide to invest now I don't meet them I it's probably email WhatsApp and and I invest and I think uh it gives me a lot of joy to see uh I mean I mean I probably invested in like 70 or 80 fintechs now uh 70 or 80 fintech yeah and what is the average ticket size that or the check size that you write out small ticket sizes like maybe at fifty thousand dollars or in that range uh and and the the intent is to kind of help in any manner uh and I think if you can create a thousand high quality Founders and and they are also uh learning to pay it forward uh we'll convert the country in from uh job Seekers to job creators and I think that's going to be an immense moment for us to have because we're used to only uh industrialists being treated as business people and all these people are like having all these glory and this right I think if you just create a culture where we encourage entrepreneurship you know I mentioned this video I'm going to mention this uh uh you know um in in in Portugal uh like if you go to the church like normally it's only the royalties are allowed to be having the tomb inside and and now uh and then I noticed that all the Explorers like Vasco de Gama and others who actually helped take the country forward were also given the special position uh along with the royalty and celebrating Risk Takers unless we do that we are not going to break out as a country and I think that is one big change that we need to go through well you know what is the next big risk that kunalsha is willing to take today uh I I do that all the time I think the startups stopped becoming a startup when they stop taking risk so uh I hopefully many new things many exciting things we are entering a world uh where we have new launches by NPC every day AI is evolving so quickly so I as a as an entrepreneur what is your big fear in a world where there is so much disruption there is so much change and there is such constant pace of change what is your big fear today as an entrepreneur uh well I if I go really fast forward not as an entrepreneur I think as Humanity we are not realizing the risk of AI uh we we see it and we feel it's like a cool demo that we see on chat GPT and we are done with it uh but I can tell you with confidence that 90 of people who have jobs right now today may not have their jobs relevance in 10 years from now uh and I think I don't think humans can upskill so quickly so a lot of people say oh technology has come computers can be all upskilled but the thing is that this time to upskill is going to be a real Challenge and unless you are a very curious compounding person uh uh everybody jobs at a risk so that's what I'm biggest my biggest worry is right now that is your biggest worry and I I have to say that I would agree with you as far as that is concerned because I don't think we we quite can imagine the consequences of what this Ai and ml world is going to bring upon us at this point in time but what motivates you today uh uh I think we are in this exciting time for building for the country we're gonna see a transformation and uh there are so many bright young people with so much ambition around you so I think just being seeing people's transformation Journey around me be it entrepreneur be it my team members just seeing that is the most exciting thing for me every day you know we've grown up in an environment where it's always the paranoids succeed and there's so much of an emphasis on constantly being able to do something do you ever believe in the value of not doing something do you have not doing days on your calendar a lot uh I have now moved to two days a week to not working uh or not actively doing I'll tell you why because uh if you really have to see the chess board you don't have to be on the chessboard you have to be away from it and I think doing nothing is only when the brain connects dots uh doing things uh are not good for connecting dots and in a world that is changing so quickly being busy is going to almost become a curse being busy is going to be almost a curse I where I have you been deeply passionate about at CNBC for the last 23 years is financially can I can I use the two three minutes to ask you questions you don't ask me a question yeah because I should ask a couple questions to you uh you you have to know about so many Industries I can barely understand what's going on in fintech uh how do you keep up with you you meet people from all Industries so many different sectors what is your method to constantly compound short answer having the humility to say I don't know it all and having the ability to absorb like a sponge from whoever I meet so I will take something away from this conversation uh like I did from the previous conversation and and as Mr Comet said I think I truly believe in the value of being a listening organization and being a learning organization and that is what keeps me going and and I hope that that answers short in short the question that you you ask me but I I don't want to spend any more time on me if it is perfect this is about you today so so let me ask you this uh uh Five Years on three years on two years on IPO on the cards uh I think uh eventually all companies will have to kind of go down the path of being public uh we have the luxury with our investors uh uh who are actually quite bullish and are very growth big growth in investors and I think uh we are seeing ourselves kind of keep building on uh I don't think we have any timelines right now do companies will eventually have to go public the answer is yes but at least from the lessons of all the uh past lessons I think we want to be in a much more uh solid position in terms of metrics profitability before we even think about IPO and I think at least the way the company is growing right now our revenue is growing our unit economics are growing we feel very confident that uh hopefully we'll make it at least in the top 500 or thousand companies in terms of profit pool size and I think even if by when thankfully that's why I'm not a public market in the community I cannot go not to answer these uh questions of which quarter which year I'm going to be profitable about scale yes you if you if you go down that road that is what you're going to be asked down to the to the decimal point but let me end by asking you Kunal you know leave this this audience with a snapshot of the journey that you've been able to cover in numbers in the last five years because at the end of the day uh you know that's what it boils down to you said that CAC is uh you've been able to bring down your burn as far as acquisition is concerned you've been able to convert uh you do see a great degree of opportunity sum up for me leave me with five big numbers that that that symbolize your journey today uh uh I think we've been able to uh significantly improve credit scores of close to 15 million customers uh we have significantly improved uh their uh good financial behavior and not have very high interest rates to same 50 million customers we've managed to uh capture maybe 35 to 37 of market in terms of credit card customers on our platform doing different things uh and and uh in terms of Revenue scale I would say we are probably in the top 10 percent of unicorns in terms of their revenue scale in India and hopefully we'll get to the top two three percent of unicorns in terms of Revenue scale very soon well that that's a that's a good snapshot to uh to to give us a sense of the journey covered but more importantly also an indication of what is to come next what is it that you would like to explore from here on you talked about being wanting to be an Explorer or being an Explorer where what's the next Vista that you hope to uh to explore there is so much to do uh I I wish I could be cloning myself in building 10 companies I wish I could do that but uh if there was one company that you could build today what would it be uh it has to be in something to do with AI uh because uh we are we are in a very different time of the world where we can actually change is that why you're investing now now I I haven't seen good quality air companies pitched so I don't think I've invested any good companies but I think can India do good quality AI companies uh I think so I think it's going to be going to be exciting in terms of the the scale uh will we create an llm I don't know I think we are going to try many good Founders are already kind of trying that but will we create something on top of that llm that has been out there and many models exist not just GPD uh we we are going to see very high quality companies coming and India may had some unique Advantage because we can actually combine people plus AI in a unique way so very different set of companies might emerge we might have a very different software company with a co-pilot of AI we might have different BPO companies the co-pilot are saying we might have different call centers different collection agencies in lending with AI as a co-pilot so I think we are entering uh almost a cyborg time of company building a cyborgy time of company building I like I like the sound of that yeah I I think it's going to it's going to give people a lot of food for thought as well so I'm going to end by asking you Kunal you know we started with philosophy we'll end there as well what is the big life lesson uh that that you sort of live by today that you would like to share uh with this audience uh uh everybody who has achieved anything uh in the past in a hundred years they'll be forgotten uh so it's important that what you are doing at this point of time makes an impact to people around you and and uh if uh they have to think about you when you are not here they they think of you as somebody who actually contributed in a positive manner and that's what it matters is that the Kunal Legacy I hope so thank you very very much ladies and gentlemen foreign thank you so much thank you very much all right ladies and gentlemen can we give a huge Alpha clause for this Canal's chessboard metaphor Perils of AIML the future plans and of course the role reverse will be witnessed with the sharinas answering some of his questions it's now time to move [Music]

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Id: 2hyHC1ySuCI

Length: 37min 5sec (2225 seconds)

Published: Thu Sep 07 2023