Listening to Your Life, Finding Your Calling - Julia Mourant

well good afternoon and a very warm welcome here to simple's to each and every one of you to this Sunday forum my name is Mark Oakley and I work here at the Cathedral and it's my privilege today to welcome today's speaker Julia Moran is a priest in the Church of England and she served over the years in a number of roles in both the Winchester and the Chelmsford diocese including vocations recruitment and selection officer joint director of ordnance and lay training officer she's been involved in the training and supervising of spiritual directors for many years as well as offering herself quiet days and retreats julia is also I think it's fantastic titled it's not very jealous scholar in residence at saram College in Salisbury where she's responsible for the serums certificate in spiritual direction and her recent book which only came out on the 30th of August she only actually saw it herself yesterday is called listening to your life 30 ways to discern direction for your future and I know myself from the interest that we had for our June retreat what an important topic this is for people of faith but also what a confused area it often feels and I know that help is needed and I think this book is a rare mixture of spiritual insight and practicality and it does offer a way for all of us no matter how distant we might feel from a sort of religious professionalism to take this word vocation seriously as the way forward to consider the meaning purpose the direction of our lives so please would you welcome today our guest speaker Julie on the rock good afternoon and thank you very much to mark for welcoming me I'm very pleased to be here at some polls this afternoon and I was very excited yesterday to receive in the post a few copies of my listening to your life as Mark said I did only see it for the first time yesterday but I didn't know what was in it so it wasn't too much of a surprise or a shock now I'm really pleased to be here to talk about a theme which is very dear to my heart that is vocations vocational living finding your direction your purpose and your way in life now sometimes people think that the only people have vocations are people who were not Commerce or special religious clothes but I firmly believe that everybody has a vocation and I'm particularly keen on the idea that we can all whoever we are find out a little bit more about what that is and at times in my life I've wondered what I was supposed to be doing and how I wouldn't know what I was supposed to be doing and at other times I've had a sense that I did know what I was supposed to be doing but I couldn't work out how I was supposed to do it and then I might have a few words with God and say have you thought this through because you seem to have asked me to do something which on the face of it appears impossible due to circumstances or whatever else it may be in life so I used to think about that and then I found myself drawn into ways of accompanying other people on their vocational journey somebody asked me many years ago now to be their spiritual director and I thought what's that I've really heard of that but we've decided that we would explore together and it was a learning curve for me I then became drawn into much later when I found that a bit more about how to do it the training of spiritual directors and then I found myself involved in leh training and eventually as a director of ordnance accompany people on their journey not just towards ordination but also to a variety of leh ministries and I always felt in my job as a director of vocations and ordination that my job was not done until the person I was meeting with had discovered a bit more about who they were and where they were going and it was not about getting people through a process which they would either succeed or fail in but it was about discovering their path that's really important anyway I'd like to get straight to the point with an example of my theme today which is about the way in which metaphor imagination and creative thinking can really speak to us and help us to discern our path our purpose and our direction thinking is really important but thinking doesn't always get us to where we need to be thinking can sometimes even get in the way so I'm going to give you an example and you've got in front of you on one side of your handout a picture that looks like this it's a clock which I'm sure you will have noticed has no hands and this is why you need a pen but wait please do not think yet about writing anything because there are few things that I need to say which may affect the way in which you address this question what time is your life now the first thing I want to say is that if you think about this question what time is your life you really can't work it out logically or mathematically it's got nothing whatsoever to do with your age so if you're already thinking well I'm such a natural age that makes it kind of 2 o'clock in the afternoon or 10 o'clock at night forget it because that's not at all where are we going youth does not mean morning middle age does not mean afternoon and evening does not mean later life let me illustrate with a story at one time we were in a parish my husband who's a parish priest and myself and there was a young lady there and she was planning to celebrate her 21st birthday and she was gonna have a great party and she invited all her friends and her family and everybody so she said to her great-grandmother who was a some significant aged great-grandma that I really want you to come to my birthday party it's going to be a fantastic occasion please please come put in your diary I know it's not till next year but I really want you there well her great-grandmother looked a bit worried and a bit sad and she said well darling I would have loved to come to your party but you know I really don't know that I'm gonna be able to make it I'm very sorry well thinking that her elderly great-grandmother was sort of numbering her days this young lady said no don't say that look at you you're fine you know you've got your tablets you've got ya this Sutton you know you look after yourself you'll be fine I really want you to be there so my great grandmother says oh no no no that's not what I mean I'm not thinking of going anywhere like that I'm going on a cruise so she had plans she was very amused maybe for her it was roundabout breakfast time she still had plenty of living to do so you need a pencil or a pen if you've got one ready and just for a moment don't think about how old you are but listen to and in a place and aware of your hopes your dreams your responsibilities the things you have to do the things you want to do the things which are part of your world right now if your life had a time what would it be don't think about it let it emerge from an inner place you may be given this and not know why something new will tell you this is the time let it choose you take a moment and when you have a sense of what that is whether it makes sense to you or not draw your hands on your clock take a moment and it helps to actually do this not just think about it because there's something visual about that clock face and you have it in front of you and you say my goodness so just take a moment just take a breath and I'll be quiet just for a moment you may like to think some more about that later it may be something that you need to ponder but if you did put something on your clock I wonder what it means to you does it surprise you does it challenge you what possibility might it hold for you what's exciting about it what's daunting what emotions accompany this choice this discernment are the sad or difficult feelings are the hopeful feelings notice them kindly have compassion on yourself and if this is the time for me now what do I need to do what action might follow now a metaphor can speak more powerfully and at a deeper level than if I simply asked you what you intended to do with the rest of your life if I asked you that we might have an interesting conversation but a metaphor can just come a bit left field and surprises it brings you up short perhaps makes you think my goodness why did I say three o'clock do I need to wake up from my afternoon lethargy or maybe something in me is telling me it's five to midnight why is that and unlike life the clock can be wound back and it can say a different time every time you look at it so have a think about what it means for you it may lead to change of some kind metaphor bypasses our rational thinking a little bit and although thinking is useful metaphor allows us to think about uncomfortable truths which sometimes were protected from if we're in denial and self-justification when our minds are going round and round so that's an example just an example of how a metaphor can open up new ways of thinking and there are lots of those in the book that's kind of what it's all about now I found that as I talk with people who are exploring a sense of vocation that they often wonder how they might hear from God how they might know what their sense of call and direction and purpose is supposed to be they wonder how God might speak to them and how they might hear it and how they would know and you might have had that experience perhaps you've thought I'd love to hear from God but I never have and how would I know if God spoke to me it seems to happen to other people it seems to happen in the Bible but how would I know would I hear a voice would I have a revelation is it something hard to get hold of like a phone ringing in another room some people talk about a call like that it's in it's a phone it's ringing another room but I hope it's for somebody else maybe it's not for me it will go away but it doesn't and one day you have to think maybe that phone call really is for me maybe I really will have to pick the phone up and thinking can only take you so far listening to your life is about engaging with the raw material of experience hopes dreams desires and thoughts and feelings guts instincts are more important than we sometimes recognize now have you had and I'm sure you have because this is part of the human condition that experience where you're going to do something and everything makes sense and you've thought it through and it's the perfect plan and you've been working up to it and everyone tells you you're on the right track and it's all good that's in the back of your mind there's something and it's just going that is a terrible idea that is just gonna go horribly wrong and we think no no no there's no reason to think that it's all good it's all lines up the money's right the place is right the house is right there whatever is is all good and if you ignore that little voice how often have we found that later on we go I really should have listened to that I really should have paid attention all the Converse you know you have a great idea you're really excited about something it makes no sense everyone tells you you're crazy but you do it and it's the most life-changing transformative door-opening incredible thing that you own ever could have done and maybe you never look back and you think I was so close to going now that's bad don't do that but I did wow I'm so glad that I did and how do we know as we grow older I think we gradually learn to listen to our gut and there's a reason for that because I think God has actually made us that way it's part of how God made us and how God speaks to us in this deep inner well of wisdom we know more than we know how we know how do we know things sometimes it's a mystery it doesn't all come through our head we have this deep well of intuitive god-given wisdom that is a part of our humanity and we need to learn to trust it even though we may think it's irrational now one of the things that I think is really interesting is that quantum physics and new ways of looking at the world scientifically and this is not my fields but I'm fascinated when I read little bits about it if you read that stuff we hear that everything is connected the boundary between things are illusory I am connected to you and you are connected to me and all the boundaries of butter are actually to some extent illusion and I flow into you and you flow into me and in some sense I am you and you are me and this is not just kind of weird spiritual talk about mysticism or Nirvana or unity but it's actually scientific fact and spiritual teaching about prayer about intercession about healing about God about spirit insight and wisdom it's not at all incompatible with what we are finding out through quantum physics and scientific discovery and I don't even have the language to talk about that kind of thing but it's amazing that experiment they did you might have heard that where they they took the smallest part of matter that you can take and they divided it and they put these different bits of molecules or whether they were on different sides of the world and they changed one bit and they found that the other bit changed and you think how is that possible things that were connected and then separated or actually in some mysterious way still connected amazing and this is the world that we live in it's not all about rationalism our deep souls are aware of so much more than we know and our dreams and our bodies and our souls will tell us things but we might be trying quite hard with our minds to ignore there's wisdom available to us if we listen through our everyday experiences and encounters I know somebody who had locked dreams about car crashes a weird thing you might think but it was only when he began to listen to that dream and to realize that in his own life he was on a radical course to major collision but he woke up and so I need to change something so he took some some very drastic action to withdraw from certain places and people and the dreams stopped the collision course that his inner spirit knew about that he had been ignoring needed to be addressed one time I was trying to make a very big decision myself and I was putting it off and someone asked me how will you know if you're going to make this decision how will you know that it's the right thing to do and I said well I'll have thought it through and I'll know it's not impulsive and I know it's not just a kind of reactive thing and that it all makes sense and it's the right thing to do not a bit of it I went on like that for months and one day I was driving down the road in my car and something in my body kind of shifted I can't really describe it but it was kind of inner something and in that nanosecond I knew what I had to do just like that and I never looked back there is this wisdom somewhere within us so listen to your dreams listen to your body listen to what makes you laugh and what feels heavy in your soul because there you will find clues to your sense of vocation so we have this inner wisdom now I've spent a lot of time accompanying people exploring a sense of core direction of vocation one of the things I also do is some coaching vocational coaching that kind of thing but when I was a director ordinance I used to find that often people come to my door and they would start telling me about a call to a very specific role or job they'd come and tell me they wanted me know they want to be a vicar or they might tell me possibly that they had a particular lay role in mind because that was also my job but I didn't want to talk about that I said I don't talk about that we're not going to talk about whether you're going to be a vicar or not let's talk about why you're on the earth let's talk about why you're here why you're breathing what has God called you to be and to do at the most fundamental level irrespective of the church as an institution or an organization whether they're going to pay you wear you wear special clothes or not what do you think like that what is it really all about them and I said to one young woman who was thinking about ordination I said what what's your deepest sense of call why are you here on this earth and without a second's hesitation she flashed back at me she didn't think about it she said to call the lost home to the Father's heart wow I thought it's that incredible that might not be something that you would feel was your sense of vocation but she knew she knew that's what she was all about that was her energy her passion and her commitment so from that point on we went on to discuss well would ordination be a way that you would do that would that be the way that you would follow that through and it just so happened that it was but it might not I mean now what just suppose that the church cease to exist as an institution or as organization and it couldn't give us special labels or special clothes at all I wonder what would happen to our sense of vocation particularly those of us that have been ordained some would feel that their deepest sense of identity had been compromised perhaps others would say no my sense of vocation is deeper than that for myself I would say my own sense of priesthood is about being a holder a bearer of the light and if the Church of England ceases to exist I will still believe that my task from God is to hold the light whatever that means whatever company I find myself that lights around which we gather to find purpose meaning grace compassion and healing now I wonder if anybody ever asked you as a child what you want to be when you grow up you don't hear it quite so much now maybe because there's so many millions of things you could do but the question tended perhaps to expect a something if you know how to mean a fireman a doctor a brain surgeon a train driver a nurse a thing but I wonder if the question might evoke a different kind of response have you ever heard anyone say as opposed to being a doctor or a nurse or a brain surgeon I'd like to be a fully integrated human being living out responsible and compassionate care for the planet and my fellow human beings wouldn't that be a great answer if someone said that to me I think that was a great vocation and then you have to work out how but you have to work out your purpose before you become specific you have to work through the layers so it's good to put things in perspective now I'm gonna have to move on fairly quickly through all these lots of things I want to say so I'm gonna skip to the next bit which is all about how God calls us by name and sometimes in retreat contexts I draw on the idea of how important our name is have you ever noticed how important names are in Scripture at significant times God says I'll give you a new name or I'm going to change your name because the name that I'm going to give you is a promise and a call and it's to do with who you're supposed to be and what I'm going to give you to do Abraham Sarah Jacob Simon Peter Saul he became Paul all these and Jesus often uses people's names to address them and perhaps most poignant of all I love this episode it's that moment in the resurrection garden when Jesus speaks to Mary by name and she's there when she's upset and she's distracted and she sees Jesus and he says to her Mary just her name is changed and from that moment of restoration and hope there comes the sense of vocation to go and tell but it begins in that moment with her name have you ever heard God speak your name and if you were to sit quietly in a prayerful moment what might you hear you might hear the name that you were given at your baptism if you're baptized or perhaps you would hear a different name one that God is gifting you with as a sign as a promise beloved or precious or advocate champion gentle one leader caller of the Lost I wonder what you would hear you might know that hymn by Francis Ridley have a go which includes the lines speak to me by name Oh master let me know it is to me speak to me that I may follow faster with a step more firm and free speak to me by name to hear one's name is one of the most powerful intimates and compelling experience there is and if you're not sure how to pray if you're not sure how God is calling you what your sense of direction or purpose might be start with a space in which you hear God call you by name and that experience will remind you that you are loved that you're a human being made in the image of gold and it's to that point and to the back of your handout that I want to turn now that diagram is just a bit of an overview of a kind of vocational process because some people want to start with knowing what they're supposed to do and they wait and they listen and they say I'm waiting for God to tell me what my vocation is well I have good news for you you don't need to wait for God to speak to you before you can start living vocationally our most fundamental sense of vocation is to be and to express what we actually are that is human beings made in the image of God and intended to reflect something of God's love light healing compassion and grace as well as God's creative energy and passion we can do this in very ordinary ways and the first box on the left-hand side of your paper that says something about this it's about our vocation as human beings made in the image of God you don't need any special guidance from God to begin to ask questions like how am i doing in my humanity do I look after my health my relationships my family am I responsible human being looking after the planet do I have habits and addictions that maybe I could address how is my work am i learning am i developing how do I take part in the community do I relate to money in a responsible way and some people have a rule of life if any of you are part of groups like the third orders of Francis or with a Benedictine ablates then you may be part of a group where they encourage you to have a rule of life which about rules it's about how you shape all those topics and what you can make yourself - now I know someone who has a job that she is not happy in she would leave it if she could and there is no way that she feels that that job is her vocation but she goes to work every day knowing that her call is to live as a human being made in the image of God with kindness and grace efficiency compassion and all the things that we are called to be even if you would leave that job that's not your call but you have a call in the midst of it now the second stage moving on swiftly to this vocational journey also needs no special revelation because it's common sense and basic Christian teaching if you are a Christian and you are called by baptism to be the disciple of Jesus then there are certain things that we know are our vocation we have a spiritual framework a prayer the sacraments service being part of a worshipping community being good stewards of all that we've been given seeking the fruit on the gifts of the Holy Spirit kindness gentleness faithfulness all those things and you don't need a voice from God it's all there in our teaching our scriptures a path to follow an only then when we have those kind of things in place can we begin to move - okay so what what is my special invitation to participate matthew lynn in one of his books called it the sealed orders what is the that specifically God is calling me to do and again some of the reflections in the book invite us to think about particular gifts and vulnerabilities I never use the language of gifts strengths and weaknesses because when is a strength a weakness and when is a weakness strength I prefer the language of gifts and vulnerable his vulnerability may also be a gift if you have a soft place in your heart a wound or a scar it may be the greatest gift for others that you have so the way to begin to discover your purpose and your call is to slow down to listen to find space sometimes we have to try things out once upon a time a friend of mine sat in my kitchen and she cried because she was looking after the toddler group and she needed help and it was all very stressful and I found myself saying it was one of those I should listen to my gut moments because I'm a nice person I found myself saying to my friend I'll help you with the toddler group oh I'll come on a Tuesday and afters I thought I don't I don't like that stuff with glue and scissors it's kind of not my thing um but it was there to be done and for a time I did and maybe it helped but a few months later I did say you know what this really isn't my thing Tuesday seems to come around so fast and I'm sure there's at least six Tuesday's in the week now when I have to go and do this thing with glue and scissors I could do that with my own children but sitting around the table doing with other people's children I just found a bit of a struggle but sometimes we can't be picky sometimes we have to do what's there to be done but I did know after that first of all listen to your gut and second of all when you're looking for your sense of vocation giulia glue and scissors it's not it so we'll rule that one out that's not it we can discount that from the equation so we have to take time you could read the book if you're interested in reading the book very quickly and you could toy with some of the ideas and you could think that's interesting but actually you're probably only really fine but it's helpful if you actually take the time to go away somewhere and actually take the piece of paper because most an involved piece of paper the reflections book and actually get a pen and actually create a listening space because the reflections aren't magic they're not anything special really they're just thresholds they're just invitations what's actually needed is a deep encounter with gold with your deepest self with the spirit in which you listen to your dreams your imagination in your life so in conclusion at every vocations event and every vocational conversation that I've ever had my prayer whether I have spoken it or not has always been that God would surprise which challenge and would transform and that remains my prayer and my hope and perhaps one way to be open to that is to play a little with metaphor and imagination I call it listening to your life listening to your god-given spirit breathe full of possibility life and what time is yours thank you believe we have some time for questions so I'm very happy to respond to anything that strikes you coming out of what I've said and I raise questions for you or thoughts in your minds so let's take a little bit of time to try and engage with whatever's emerged for you anybody want to yes right okay let me just try and recap the question so this is a question about if God asks you to do something or tells you to do something and it's not within your capability or capacity as you see it at that moment how long do you wait before you are obedient well that's a very interesting question some people would say God only calls us to do the things that we are able to do you might remember that great there's a little bit in one of Corrie ten booms books where she's worried about something or other and she's praying about it and she's reminded of what her father used to say to her some of you might have read this and he used to say to her she was a child Corrie when do I give you your ticket for the train I don't give it to you the day before or the week before or even the hour before I give you the ticket when you get on the train so it may be that we have to discern what the next thing is that we can do and as we do the next thing that we can do or that we see as possible we are given what we need and that that's a strong biblical that you're given what you need in the moment the pots of oil overflow the 5000 affair whatever it is there's a great bit in one of them it's one of those films with Harrison Ford in there's the one about the Holy Grail or something you know Don to me and he's doing this challenge thing and the instructions are to step off this cliff remember that bit and he goes well I can't step off this cliff because I'm gonna fall into this great chasm but as he steps off the cliff he actually finds there's a there's a rock which is hidden that's like a stepping stone but and only as he steps off the plank or the side of the rock there are than falling to his death he finds himself on a firm footing so I don't know if that answers the question but sometimes we have more than we think we have I'll tell you something actually Here I am talking to you and probably I hope looking vaguely like I know what I'm doing when I was a child I was so terrified of speaking in front of anybody that I was incapable of saying my two times table and the teacher had to hear me say it privately because I thought of standing up in class and saying my two times table age 7 was so horrific and so terrifying that I couldn't possibly do it and the first time I ever preached a sermon I wished I would die I was at Theological College and I thought I prayed that I would get the flu that the church would burn down anything anything would happen as long as I did not have to preach this sermon I just it was I fell ill for a week a month I couldn't I couldn't do it and I got to the church and the vicar said and we welcome Julian tonight and Julia tells me that this is the first time that she's preached a sermon and I thought well that's that's really helpful that makes me feel even worse but you know what it was all right and it probably wasn't the best sermon in the world but it happened and I appreciate a lot of places since then and maybe it's still not my number one favorite thing to do but God gives you what you need so answer the question enough okay what what else what else is around for people yes let me see if I've got this right so this is a question about you're going to make a decision and some wise Christians advised you in a particular way and said don't do it and you're wondering or were wondering or still are wondering well that's a tricky one isn't it because I think we don't make decisions on our own path of guidance and listening to vocation is seeking what others give to us and when I worked as a director of ordinance I often used to say to people you sit here and you think God is speaking to you and you're telling me that you think God is calling you this particular direction but the exploration of vocation is like digging a tunnel from two ends you know how that happens at the same time so me as an individual I'm digging my tunnel and I'm trying to work out what God is saying and what I think is right and I'm saying I think God wants me to be ordained or whatever it is and at the same time there are people in the church bishops ministry division directors of ordinance people like me advisers selectors who are thinking well what do we need what do we want what's good saying and I meet you and I think you know is what's God saying to me about about you and sometimes those two things come together and your discernment and the church it's um comes together but sometimes it doesn't and then we have to work out what's going on but discernment is shared however it is also true that sometimes we do have to go it alone and that actually there comes a point when we say to ourselves despite the counsel that I'm being given despite what others are saying to me this truly feels right and I don't think there's an easy answer to that except that you have to think it through yes thoughts you have to feel it through you have to listen to your dreams and your dreams will tell you a lot in that kind of situation listen to your dreams because in that deep place of inner wisdom you may find access to some other way of looking at it but you can't get to just by trying to think should I listen to my friend I listen to the church like what do i do what do I do I think it's a deepening process and we go deep into our god-given inner wisdom sometimes a dream will tell you something that you had no other means of of knowing about I dream a lot I think I've got it from my mother actually she's tough most incredible dreams and dream in color and it was all very complicated and I've been heritage some of us so sometimes I have to work as if my dreams are just completely crazy or if they're actually telling me sometimes else sometimes they are telling me something so I haven't really given you a very helpful answer I'm afraid but at the end of the day you will need to listen to your deepest heart so I would encourage you to do that yes that's all right yes that's right no exactly exactly it's all to do with how you feel and of course morning afternoon and night mean different things to us anyway don't they some people might think well six o'clock end of the day I'm going to watch the news Coronation Street have a drink go to bed other people might think six o'clock I've done my work I'm going out I don't need to come back until two o'clock tomorrow morning you know so different times a day mean different things so it's this is why thinking about it intuitively rather than or does that mean may offer away in anything else yes yes this is a question about whether the concept of vocation is a specific or whether it's open-ended and flexible tell me if I misinterpreted this but I think the way I would approach that would be to say I don't think that God necessarily causes two very particular things such as being a vicar of being a teacher or being a this or that I think there is a deeper undercurrent that we are called to so for someone who does have a vocation for example in teaching or in medicine or in social care it might not be a vocation to that particular job but it might be to the reasons the motivation the passions but underpin that job and like I was saying about this lady that I spoke to who said her deeply since the vocation was to call the lost home to the Father's heart there are lots of ways you could do that somebody else might have a vocation that is to do with educating children or encouraging children or being someone that heals in some way and I think we we can look at the different ways and when we are presented with an option and a possibility a job we need to say how does that mesh with my deepest sense of who I am and why I'm here is this job going to fulfill my sense of vocation if it does to enough of a degree because sometimes life is the art of the possible and evolves compromises then we might want to do that at one point in my life I was in a diocesan job and it was all to do with training I was a job that a layperson could have done and I had some lay colleagues and I used to think to myself I love doing this job this is a good job to have but my deepest sense is to some expression of this priest priesthood that I feel called and if there comes a point where this job that I'm doing doesn't seem to fit with this deep sense of call to priestly ministry then I'll know that that maybe isn't the right job for me anymore and so there may be something against which you test what you're doing and say well does that fit with the what is most important does that make sense okay for a few minutes so there's a couple of things let me speak to this lady and then I'll come over to you that's all right let me come to this lady here first and then I'll come yes now that's quite a complicated question it's a question about should we be distrustful of our gut instinct yes and no it's one aspect of how we receive guidance and how we discover our sense of vocation our gut instinct may be colored by childhood experiences by distorted theology and they want two examples of this kind of thing in the book so if for example we have an image of God that is very harsh and very judgmental and and quite headmaster ish that may actually impact how our gut instinct is so we think about doing something and with the gut instinct that we have is kind of affected by this image of God that we have that is very judgmental so we may feel a sense of disapproval or well you can't do that you know what you'll never be good enough and that may feel like an anything but actually it's kind of being affected by the image of God that we have that it maybe needs renewing or healing in some way so I think we always have to go deeper and into prayer and hear God call us by and take time over it because I think if we're not sure then we wait and we listen some more and we talk to wise people and and find a spiritual director and test and test things out and I think I just won't in ignatius of loyola used to say well don't do anything in desolation you know if you're not sure if you're not sure this is leading you to God then then wait now conscious at the time there's a lady over here at the back and then I'm going to come to you and then we maybe I think we're okay yes that's all right yeah likes a lot of things yeah absolutely well the first thing that comes to mind and I don't mean this to be a sort of advert but I'll just give it as an example is one of the things I put in the book is it uses the metaphor of a roundabout and on this roundabout it can have various exits and one of the things you can do is take a big sheet of paper and put a sort of random bit in the middle of it and draw some possible exits and you can kind of think well I could do this or I could do that and here's a signpost and this might take me that way or that might take me this way and lay it all out and look at it and see how it feels and see what emotions are evoked on what is generated within you and that may move you forward so you know it's a good thing if you've got lots of possibilities the other thing I think that's important is that and this goes back a little bit to an earlier question is I don't personally believe that there is one path that we have to take in life I don't believe that God has a kind of blueprint and that's what we have to do and if we step off it then we've kind of failed it's not like a sat-nav and that kind of goes well that's the way you've got to go oh no now you've completely messed up I'm going to have to recalibrate I think with God we follow we seek we discern but God and again this is kind of in the book God recycles things God works with us as we are and who we are and today has its vocational possibilities so thank you for that question I'm going to come over here and then Marc might be about to yes accountability groups I've heard of these accountability groups can be really wonderful places where you can share what's happening you can bring perhaps decisions or you can give your accountability group permission under certain lis have friends who've done this they say to their accountability group you have permission to ask me about anything my family my drinking my money my job you can ask me anything and I want to be transparent and I feel protected because you know I've got nowhere to hide so you you challenge me I think there's probably a spectrum here but accountability groups at their best and most effective and spirit-inspired can be places of great strength of collaboration of protection of wise Council of prayerful discernment and and support which has integrity and and love there is another end to the spectrum and that is perhaps where people might not listen properly or they might give advice which feels incomplete or misguided or motivated further in the wrong way for some reasons and then power starts to creep into the equation so I would say accountability groups probably a great thing therefore any checking once in a while to kind of go is this working and if as in so many places in life if if at the end of the day of something within us is going I'm not this this doesn't sit right I feel constrained by Thea some way that there's dissonance dissonance is often a sign that something needs addressing so if your accountability group feels wholesome and good and life-giving then wonderful give thanks for it if it starts to create any kind of dissonance then it might be worth looking at what's going on does that absolutely absolutely I think mark is going to come and about time of life but it's time it's time to it's time to draw to a close absolutely you've come you've come disconnected what's at the heart of my faith and I some people have heard we put it this way that I believe that God's given everybody here the the gift of being and you can give a gift back and that's you're becoming who you become with that that being and that sounds lovely and very sort of Canon Oakley ish but actually it's hard work to discern what that becoming might be for you and I've developed over the years a sort of bubble and squeak theology and I said God opens a fridge and uses what's there but you sort of got her open the fridge somehow and find yourself and I've enjoyed reading this so much because as I say it's it's practical there are there are metaphoric little exercises for you to engage in to break out of the of the logical it's very difficult of course to distrust the irrational in this day and age but one of the things we have in common is of course our books our new books came out at the same time by the same publisher and I was I was just finally very aware that one of the poems I have in my book is by a person poet who lived around the same time as Chaucer on the other side of the world caught her fish and he wrote you know sometimes we have to pull the chair out from under our mind in order that we can just fall on God and he was whirling around in my head as I heard you talking that sometimes we have to pull the chair out and I don't about listening to your life but I've certainly enjoyed listening to you and the books are going to be the sell in a moment usually they're $12.99 but hot-off-the-press today they're going to be 10 pounds see what $2.99 discount I hope that you have been able to pick up future forum debates we've got on Tuesday under the dome upstairs Nadia bolts Webber and the Reverend Richard Coles in dialogue with me please think about me I mean between the two of them I'm getting sleepless nights and dreams about that actually and then also on there are forums to come but also on the 8th of November the next person under the day was me talking about this new book so lots to go on and please to make sure you've got all the information you need which is on the tape as well thank you very much for coming in a very safe you

Channel: St Paul's Cathedral

Views: 9,533

Rating: 4.7735848 out of 5

Keywords: Julia Mourant, Vocation, Calling, God, Christianity, Theology, Sunday Forum, St Paul's Cathedral, Mark Oakley, St Pauls, London

Id: FVw6g5z1FI8

Length: 58min 42sec (3522 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 13 2016