Lions GM Brad Holmes | The Season with Peter Schrager

with no further Ado uh really excited about this guest been trying to get him on for a couple weeks we got him and I'm excited and it's right before the start of training camp so I'm sure he's fresh as a daisy this is the Detroit Lions general manager Mr Brad Holmes Brad what's up man how you doing man thanks for having me because I was able to finally get this together man I hope you didn't think I was stuck no you know what it's it's funny because um this is like the off season but it's also the only time that people can get away so it's yes I'd love to do your podcast but I also have a family I'd like to see [Laughter] I know we started talking about during the season and this season's probably the most like normal wise regimented part of the whole year because you kind of know what's gonna happen but um when the season ends that's when it gets like crazy crazy and then uh we actually we we do quite a bit after the draft um preparing for the upcoming year so but you know fresh off vacation uh you know got a good little week at home and uh it's a great time man I think that's a good segue so take us through and you are a general manager what is the schedule because I think most people think all right draft and then kick your feet up and then free agency you know but it's really year-round yeah it really is man like uh like I said like you know you have training camp and you go through that and you you know a lot of rocks reduction stuff but after training camp um you know I say the season everybody thinks like The Season's like that's the basis part because it's the football season but from a jam standpoint it's actually probably the most regimental part because you pretty much know okay you got game day and game day is going to bring all your stress and emotions and but after game day Mondays you're dealing with you know injuries and medical stuff and then Tuesdays you're dealing with you know roster management and getting all your moves done and then the week starts and um and actually we actually kind of devote a lot of that time for draft prep actually um so because you kind of have the time yeah and then just kind of just operate normally but then after the season ends and that's when you're like full throttle like you know you're heading straight into you're balancing free agency and draft at the same time and then you're going all the way up to free agency so that's probably the most hectic time is pre-free agency because you're kind of doing both and then once uh free agency kind of like that second or third wave kind of hits you can start dialing more so towards straight draft and then you know it's kind of just Full Throttle through the draft because we're heading into the 2023 season and we're still just a couple months removed I want to go back to that first round for you guys in the Detroit Lions we're going to get into your story in a second but I feel like just the excitement about the Lions is real and you've read all the headlines I'm sure or you've blocked as many headlines as you can out about how this is like the hot team in the NFC but the draft you know right in the days leading up to the draft I had a couple birdies in my air being like I think Jamir Gibbs might go earlier than the mock drafts are saying and another one saying he might go before Bijan Robinson sure enough you guys you get them early top 15 and everyone around like oh what a shot but like people that I was talking to say that's not such a shock it's about where he was slated when did you fall in love with Jamir gives and what did you love about him man it's funny that she said you heard that about him going that early because I was sitting here thinking uh I was like nobody's gonna do this and then and then after we picked them then I heard all these other generals oh yeah yeah I know that's who we wanted yeah yeah yeah I'm glad you picked them here gonna make it but um no I I first fell in love with them obviously I didn't know about them that much uh when he was at Georgia Tech that year before so I went to that Texas Alabama game uh or early in the year and I kind of got tipped off about them like right at the game uh right before the start of the game and I was like okay and I saw his body type and playing this guy looked intriguing then I kind of saw what he was doing in both phases um yeah I mean he can run it but what he was doing as a receiver and the explosiveness and everything about him and we just kept doing work on them and like I said you kind of do some draft prep during the season and kept doing work on them and that was just kind of it for me I was like this guy's uh and he's he's a weapon he's a weapon and um you know when you talk about all the running backs going in the first round and all that kind of stuff um you know I always say like if he's a weapon then forget the RB uh positionless players right like that's how it looks that's what he is like that's what like when he we thought he was a multi-face elite explosive positionless weapon and um you know he was a special player um you know you have some you have the combine to confirm some things you know but he ran what I thought he was gonna run and you know all the testing and his workouts and um we're just really excited about him I think we're gonna um he's going to bring another dimension to our offense um that's as good as we were offensively last year um you know I I think it's gonna be even better this year but Bottom Line This is you just got to get the guys that you want and um I I kind of look at especially this past draft you know everybody was saying like this is a different draft this is a different draft well let's call it what it is it just wasn't as strong of a draft as it normally has been and by that you mean Blue Chip guys top 20 yeah yeah yeah like you know in a normal year you had like true first-round Talent players you might have about 17 or 18 guys um I really haven't seen any higher than 20 and and all the years that I've been doing it um this is we ended up with 14 guys and that was at the very end like it was less than that at one point like at one point we had like nine or ten and so it was just one of those guys but Jamir was always one of those guys so I just looked at it as like damn look let's just get the who the hell we want and let's get the hell out of there right and let's see you know like like one of my favorite movies is training yeah um it was like me and my dad someone might me and my dad's favorite movie and uh there was a scene in Training Day where have you seen it yes Ethan Hawke yes yeah so like it was one of those scenes where you know he goes into this you know the rough area and um he goes his lady's house and takes his money and then he goes out and him and even Hawker trying to get out of the neighborhood and the girl comes out there and rats him out and says hey this guy just took our money and Denzel just sent his shootout and he's just shooting out trying to get out of the neighborhood and he's basically shooting his way out of there and I was like that draft was kind of just get me out of here I want my players we got it get get who we want and just shoot away we were just ecstatic about how the whole thing went down would you say that you and Dan Campbell are Jake Hoyt and Alonzo Harris in that film would you put is that you know I I I don't I don't want to have that uh yeah but I will say we um we all work as a payer very very well we partner very very well um you know um again I know a lot of people know now that we didn't really know each other that much before we got hired but um I always give so much credit to to Sheila and Rod Wood and Chris Spielman and Mike Disney everybody I was involved in that uh interview process of that I guess that they just knew that you know we would pair so so well and he's a joy to work with yeah it is he's a hell of a coach he's cool and he's got a great personality and those players really ride around him um especially in the second half of this season you look at that running box room obviously it's it's Gibbs and now it's Montgomery last year you had something fun with Williams and Swift you know everyone might say the value of the positions devalued and whatever you want to say about it that's a pretty big change for the running backs room considering you guys were so red hot at the end of the season you feel good about where you guys are at with that position group yeah I mean I mean overall when you look at it just systematically I I do think that we'll be better offensively and um that that's no knock on the contributions that that those other two guys gave us because they uh Swift as a dynamic player and Jamal you know he was a great leader for us and he did he did so much for us he had a great seat he's awesome they get 18 touchdowns you know um yeah I mean but but we do think that Montgomery um you know I think Montgomery and Jamal are different backs you know um Montgomery does a little bit more in the passing game uh and you know adding uh being able to add gives you know uh I I think he just he's so dynamic as a receiver and look he's a home run hitter as a running back I mean that that's that's that that's the easy part but what he does as a receiver I mean he he runs routes like I mean like a receiver is that right because I you know I you get all this Alabama talent and then here's another one and it's like no this one's special and has his own skill set that maybe because he's only there one year didn't get the same hype as the other guys yeah he was just different he was just different and um you know going through that process I was like man how many guys have I seen that was like equally as effective you know like when I first got with the Rams in 2003 um Marshall Faulk was still there and I was a huge Marshall Faulk guy uh just coming in and so just kind of seeing what he does in both phases and then uh just from a scouting standpoint uh when Christian McCaffrey came out um he was like the last guy I was like holy cow like this guy can run routes like a slot receiver but also run it and so you start getting you know kind of reminders of you know some of those players I'm not sitting here no I know he gives those players but you know just a special weapon like like that um just you know we have a lot of excitement optimism yeah and I think the offensive coordinator story is pretty cool too um had opportunities to interview for other head coaching jobs and kind of went through his name and said I'm good here in Detroit with this group uh take us through that decision from Ben Johnson and what that meant in the organization as a whole man that was huge and you know look at the end of the day Hey look it's it's hard to keep the good ones you know I mean uh eventually the cat gets out the bag and you know there's there's just no hiding uh but you know um then you know you saw it right out the gate you know even when he was a Titans coach and you know obviously Dan you know had had prior experience with him uh but you know when things got rough in that 21 season um and we had to make that change from Anthony Lynn and you know Ben basically became the passing game coordinator basically but Dan was calling plays and Daniel called plays before and um and Dan was just doing a great job he was having fun with but Ben just added this other elements or was just like wow this dude's crazy hooking ladders on week 18 in Green Bay awesome but you know that that's another component of when I when you ask you the question about the running backs about and I said I think we'll be better offensively this year as good as we were last year it's just that you know Ben going into his second year as the OC like I think last year he showed everybody like I can do this like I'm I'm Legit but going you know having experience under his belt going in the year to uh having Jared with him going in year two and then all the other components that we added in free agency in the draft um that's why I feel better about willing to be better offensive real quick couple more things Lions related then we're gonna get more into your story uh the Jack Campbell pick that was one where if Gibbs was like okay Campbell that left people slack jawed and just being like wait what um not uh not a first round mock draft guy whatsoever and yet I saw Jack Campbell I turned to my co-host on NFL Network I'm like well that's Chris Spielman just walking through the door again that's what I think um who of course works in your organization and has a great role but uh a linebacker another position not considered necessarily the same as pass rusher offensive tackle or quarterback in this league and yet you guys you liked him you took them and away we go yeah I mean you know I I think with these I think sometimes it's almost like the draft's not that easy like the draft is not oh you take these positions and and and uh these players have played these possessions put them up top because they got stats and they've been on the internet and put them on top and then these players that play these positions put them at the bottom and that's it and just work on them for a couple of months and Daniel Jeremiah says this Mel Kuiper says this come on like give it a little bit more credit the draft's not that easy and and he's the one look when you're talking about building a defense and all me and I are going to have very similar philosophies in terms of like what does it take to really elevate your D and you you ever have guys up front you better have guys that can cover so you know often the uh the inside linebacker or the off ball linebacker like we took Malcolm Rodriguez a year before in the sixth round and he had a great year you know he's going to be he's going to be someone that's going to be contributed before it's going forward but it was just that you got to look at the player like not not the position we don't drive positions we try players and so when you look at the player of Jack Campbell and we saw it as like no we're not in tracking it's a linebacker we actually went into after we signed after resign Alex angeloni and we feel really good about you know the the uh direction that Derek Barnes and Malcolm Rodriguez was heading it's not like inside linebacker who was like oh you better get a great need yeah like it's not just like no but Jack Campbell was just a hell of a football player and I just think that like we're looking at it as he's gonna be an anchor in our defense not we're drafting an inside linebacker like no we're just taking an anchor that's going to be our defense thing and we know about guys we look at free agency you look at inside linebackers you know you might have this whole list but then we're looking at guys I can actually wear that Green Dot and really run the show that list shrinks down like this like it goes from this and it goes to this and so then when you have a guy like Jack Campbell that's 6'5 250 that's extremely instinctive uh he's he's heavy in the Run game he's extremely smart and I just love how the kid is wired I mean he's wired to fit what we're all about and we're all about grit doing it the right way like the truly earning it and this guy just loves football he's he he's all business and so it's about the player it's not about not about oh it's going police it's hotline it's got one place running back no like go to Jamir Gibbs like oh you guys no he's a weapon but Jamir Gibbs is really smart yeah it's not like you know oh yeah he can align all these different places you got to be smart to line all these different places you don't just align all these different places no like you got to be really smart you got to be really heady and instinctive and and so I thought Jack Campbell you know had all the traits that we look for in a football player and so that's how we felt really good about it again going back to what I was saying about it wasn't but a certain amount of players that we had in that first round bucket and he was one of them and when I say it was only 14 guys Jack Campbell wasn't 14. you know what I mean so like it's that that's that's why I just it was it was easy I love it you guys have your board you have your guys and hey if we can get this guy at 18 and he was the top 14 player of ours they've even higher top ten we're taking them yeah mock drafts be damned difference that's kind of what that that's our stance we're just we we do a lot of work we're very thorough and I know pretty I think every team is going to say that but uh we just have a lot of conviction in in our process and and what we believe and we just stick by it and and that that's what we did I love it and last year you not only had Hutchinson step up but you had so many rookies playing big roles especially on that defense that it's hard not to say okay let's give them the benefit of the doubt and let's see before everyone starts giving him you know B's and C's on their draft grades based on what the mock draft said yeah and I mean that's I always say like it's such a psychological component of like the mock drafts and look I I it's no like I'm not looking you get it look I know you like I know you do yes take a lot of pride in it like but I'll say this I mean you you do football every single day like that's what you do all the time you know a lot of people you I mean like like I I look at like so I'm not gonna say like I don't look at Monster yeah I look at them because people talking people do the research and all that but you can't you still have to have ultimate belief and ultimate conviction in in your own process but um but no there's plenty of guys that doing that I respect and I'm like man I know this guy knows people you know know he's done a lot of work you know and I think he puts a lot of Pride but when it doesn't go down the way you projected it your your brain doesn't really like that and it's kind of you want to be right you want to be right everybody wants to be right and so then now you're mad and now you're like damn it no one said he was going to go that high and then now you got to sign a grade while you're still mad so now I'm like oh no one said he's gonna go there or no and I'm just like and I was like at the end of the day we've liked Jack Campbell since March you know because really the only rankings that really matters is the 31 other general managers and and those are the rankings that nobody has and um that's what makes the draft so fun and so when when I see people get mad about uh it didn't go the way I'm like look you should embrace the excitement of that like that's that's the thing it is if you don't know how it's going to fall and you see a name that goes on you'll be like whoa I didn't know that it's like embracing it is the ultimate beginning it's the ultimate reality show it's more than the season even because it's so rapid fire and I say it before the draft I beg my colleagues on Twitter on ESPN right don't tip the picks it is such a fun experience as a viewer if you don't look at it and you guys in the war rooms and then trying to manipulate the chessboard it's it's war games and it's fun to watch from outside but I'm sure it's stressful as hell in your chair it is but it is you're right it's fun and uh what I was I was telling a lot of people other than the draft you know I was like okay this was the draft this was the draft season this was you know the build up and then when it's over then it's over and then I now now the OTA start and got started getting on the field and now that's the thing and then now training camp is about to start so that'll be a thing so it's like it goes in phases where it's just like I would send you the you know the you know about the movie you know with Ethan Hawke and Denzel Washington it's like you do the shootout and the back window shot out and you know the cars kind of shot up a little bit and but they got out they got out The Show Goes On You Gotta so you gotta take though you know and apps of the mock drafters and all that and it's okay all right you know it'll be it'll be back to normal I love your story I think it's a story of perseverance but also uh you've had a great career uh can can we go back to your high school days you were a star player in Tampa Florida you were I want to say homecoming King is that true I did my research yeah homecoming king that's right captain of the the football team you go to North Carolina a t um and you're having a a great freshman sophomore year and then a a major life moment occurred I'm gonna say something and then you take us back and explain what happened but I'm just gonna say the Music City Miracle game and then take us backwards and lead up to what that game means in your life oh man um so yeah um you know I'm at home uh visiting you know uh my my parents down in Tampa and um you know have a you know near fatal car accident um just get just get sidelined and you know I'm in I'm in ICU for a week and um it was it was I mean I'm just I'm I'm very blessed and and lucky to pull through that but um yeah I was I was in ICU in St Joseph Hospital in Tampa Florida watching the Music City miracle and um I never forget I was and then when I got released from the hospital I'm watching the 99 Rams you know uh go their Super Bowl when they played the Bucks you know in the NSU championship game and uh it was I mean I was watching that just just couch written when I got released but um those moments kind of um really resonate with me because you don't you don't anything for for granted and um you know what what that taught me is that you know look if you have something that you believe always believe it and don't let anybody Take Your Dreams Away because I never forget that my college coach Phil Hayes visited me in the hospital um and you know he's he's one of his players in a ICU bed mangled up and I'm sitting here telling them that I'm gonna play again and he's like all right yeah right I mean like you're lucky if you were walking I was like no I'm gonna play again and um sure enough it just gave me time to get as healthy as I could um rehab and was able to you know join the team I had missed that whole spring and I joined the team during summer workouts and um a big part of my rehab process was my grandfather coming down and my grandfather played golf twice a day and just driving his car really kind of just or yeah like just getting used to even driving again uh stuff like that you know you go through all this occupational therapy and all that but um but to be able to join my teammates that summer and I felt actually stronger than I ever was I felt even better in shape and um you know and we we went on and um you know was able to finish my career at North Carolina a t but that's definitely um the the biggest adversity that I've ever overcome in in my life and um and something that I'll never forget and it sticks with me you you went into a coma you had a stroke and then what was it how many how many weeks or months in the hospital were you and yeah so I was in I was in ICU for almost two weeks um you know it's like 10 days in ICU and then I had another um almost close to another week when I got released and moved from ICU but yeah um had a um had a coma stroke uh was paralyzed uh all the way on my right side and um you know I still to this day I still have like I still don't feel like I have the exact same amount of strength you know like in my right arm as my left or you know it's just um it's certain things that kind of just give you some reminders of that moment but um having kids now um being a parent I just can't even think of you know uh my my parents getting that call from one of my closest friends gave out those who I just saw back when I was on vacation um that you know he's the one that had to make that call to my parents of of what happened and um it was I just can't even fathom and get in that call one day just out of the blue and um you know I just I just have so much respect for my family uh my closest friends uh and you know I just I just kind of it's just one of those moments that lives with you and really a good way I was gonna say is it is it almost in a weird way and they say this about survivors of traumatic events but also survivors of illnesses it's almost liberating where you're like wait I've been through that I can do anything now yeah exactly like it's yeah it's it's not a good moment because it's life-threatening but at the same time uh it's one of those moments that shaped me for sure and um those are one of those things that I think kind of started my journey like I I feel like I was always a hard worker um I always felt like I always had that mindset I was kind of overcoming the odds of my uh father had taught me that a long time ago um you know he had he he played in the NFL for a while and I never forget he bought me a weight set you know when I was in like the seventh grade and um and he was like you know it was in the eighth grade I think it was an eighth or ninth grade but he bought me a weight set and I never forget he told me he was like Brad it's it's not about what other people have seen you doing it's about what you're doing and about what you're doing when other people aren't watching and about how hard you're working and um so I always feel like I was a hard worker but going through that car accident going through that process getting back on my feet and not only having a chance to play football but having a chance to have life again uh I'm just forever grateful and fortunate but I I do think that that did kind of spark that fuel of getting to where I got to now because I had to take a really long road um it was a very unconventional path uh in terms of getting started and um just you know being told no when I first try to get into business and just keep keep fighting at it and I I I think it both well it's an amazing story and I think what you're alluding to with your crew I I look into your bio you were an Atlanta Hawks public relations you know entry level guy doing PR for the Atlanta Hawks coming out of school for you and then you were at the St Louis Rams doing PR which is setting up interviews which is working on messaging for the team which is helping the players you know talk to the media and arrange that kind of how do you make that jump from PR to being an NFL GM 20 years later yeah so um my degree was NPR and um and credit to my my mother's been in the education field forever and uh like halfway through college I started off as a business and marketing major I didn't even know why I just thought that was a cool major to be in and then my mom was like Brad you might want to change that dude like you're more of a verbal riding person you're not a man I was like all right so I changed my degree to PR and um and it was it was the best thing for me and I really like my grade just started to change but anyways when I got done playing you know I knew I want to get in the NFL and you know uh try to get in the scouting and I sent my resume to all the teams like everybody else does and my dad had a couple of connections uh but none of that fell through so my mom was basically like dude you got to come back home you know you just got to come home and just figure it out and so I moved back home and I was running cars for Enterprise rentals is that right and um yeah I was running cars for Enterprise Rent A Car and uh you know I'm wearing the shirt and tie washing cars and renting cars and all I'm doing is I'm thinking about sports and that was a very psychological and emotional period of my life because that was the first time that I was not getting ready to play football I wasn't like I'm going through it's like in July July August and you don't have a training camp awaiting you yeah I don't have a training camp away from me I'm not involved in football so I'm in that little Branch at Enterprise Rent-A-Car just thinking about football all day and staying about sports and so finally um an opportunity came about with the Atlanta Hawks for a media relations trainee and so I taught my mom about it and I'm like and my mom was like look at least she'll be back in sports and I was like yeah you're right and so um I got that opportunity with the Atlanta Hawks and because like I only could only work 40 hours a week with the Atlanta Hawks it was a meat relations training position but because of my experience with enterprise Enterprise allowed me to work part-time at the Atlanta airport so one of the one of the greatest perks that the Atlanta Hawks gave me was a free Marta card yeah because I didn't have the money to yeah you take the MARTA back and forth you can do both yeah I lived way up in Norcross and it's had this little one-bedroom apartment and um so I would take the you know so you're at Hartsfield Airport you're taking the Martyr to Phillips Arena so I had to start up top at the I went to school in Atlanta in the early 2000s yeah I know Marta that's not a yeah all respect to the MARTA folks that ain't the New York City subway system so you literally had to take the doorbells into the northernmost stop and go down and then drop me off downtown at the CNN Center a building in that's when I would do my uh meat relations training job and then when I got off then that's when I would go down to uh I'd get off and I'd take the MARTA down to the Atlanta airport and then I go to the Atlanta airport and I would just work a full day cars so probably about about 11 o'clock at night and then you know the Atlanta Airport's the last stop so I'd have to take that that Atlanta airport Marta all the way back up to that doorbell station up north and uh and that's really dude what's the lesson what's the lesson what's the lesson for kids right now who are I say kids college graduate I want to get in sports I want to be a GM you hear that story that could be discouraging but it should also encourage you it should encourage you and again like I said at the beginning man look if you're convicted on what you want to do don't let anybody ever tell you no and people will tell you no and you got to use a nose as fuel to just keep going and you just gotta have you just gotta be convicted and you just got to know that you're not gonna have the easiest path yeah I had plenty of friends from college that got these high paying jobs and and all this stuff and it was it was it was great but I was struggling you know I wasn't making I think I was only making like eight bucks an hour as a mutilation trainee and then maybe I was making like nine dollars an hour renting cars but I had enough to survive as you know um to pay for my apartment and pay for my bills but the great thing about that year though in 2003 was that the NBA All-Star game I remember it Jordan Jordan comes to Atlanta yeah I was at the dunk contest that year just as a fan job because one of my main duties was I had to get the post game quotes for the opposing team oh yes so like Jordan and everybody they would be coming in and I'm like in the locker room and I'm like holy cow like this is Tracy McGrady like holy cow this is like I'm seeing like this is Shaquille O'Neal like what like I I thought it was awesome so um but the NBA All-Star game comes and then my boss at the time Arthur she was a um he was a president Communications for basketball for the Hawks at the time he knew I wanted to get in the NFL and um he said hey look man a lot of these PR directors from the NFL come to the All-Star Game you know I I can introduce you to some of them and so I met uh Dwayne Lewis and we just kind of did a little kind of lunch interview and he had offered me uh uh PR internship yes and I was like great and so then I just uh did the pr internship for the year and during that year so as I was starting the 2003 season and so you make the shift from Sharif abdulrahim and Dan dickau and Dion Glover and my man Alan Henderson and now you're at oh yeah where are you going you go you move everything you go to St Louis for an internship yeah so I just kind of packed the U-Haul all right I just I just packed a U-Haul and um drove to St Louis and um and I just started had you ever been there before I've never been to Santa I've never been yeah this is the lesson how many of these people that we talked to are like yeah the opportunity but I I'm from New York I'm not moving to you know like no no you gotta go yeah single with no kids a little bit but um but uh you know I'm you know I know 20 23 years old 22 years old at the time so um but yeah I just packed a U-Haul and just kind of drove drove to St Louis uh it's about eight nine hour drive I think or something like that and um then I start my PR internship and back then the Rams would have training camp in Macomb Illinois or Western Illinois so uh it's like as soon as I get there and I'm there for like maybe a week and then I got to go to Macomb Illinois and start my PR internship and um it was it was cool again I was doing interviews and with Marshall Faulk and stuff like that and I was like this is great but during that time you know during that training camp I see these guys that weren't players they were just regular guys and they had they were helping out in practice and I'm like what are those and they're like oh those are scouting assistants and I was like scouting assistance and I'm like they can like help out in practice and walk throughs and stuff and it's like yeah and I'm like wow so I'm like I gotta get it so um you know I struck up a good relationship with our running backs coach at the time Wilbert Montgomery okay former former pro bowler right great player former Eagles yeah I mean and um I think Wilbur just saw that you know I was a just a young kid fresh out of college that love football and we would just talk football and uh then as our relation developed uh I'm gonna start helping them out with stuff I would help them I'd help him do his running back wristband things you know I I do that kind of stuff and one day he just asked me it's like man why are you in PR yeah like why are you mad I said Wilbur man I don't know anybody I don't I try to get in but I couldn't and so he was like Hey look man I'm gonna talk to Charlie Charlie armor is our GM at the time and uh he said I'm gonna talk to Charlie and at the time all the scouting assistants kind of had this let's call it like a nepotism kind of everyone knew someone yeah like one's uncle was the president another one you know his dad played quarterback for the Jeep yeah number one is like his his grandfather used to be the owner's part like all and I'm just like I don't have any of that and he was like look I never this is Wilbur talking Wilbur's like look Brad I never go to Charlie about anything so he knows if it's real it's real so he talks to Charles and he comes back and one thing that I had to do as a PR internship is I had to print out the daily clips and how to print out the daily clips and pass them out to all the coaches officers in the GM's office and so here's what Bernie mil class wrote about the team this week right like is that what it is Jim Thomas Bernie Midwest like all of them and so um and so um and you know now we get them all sure PDF and all that I tell these PR interns now I'm like we used to have to print these things so you'd print out you'd cut out the newspaper article you'd put it on a piece of paper you paste it then you gotta go to the copy machine make 40 copies and you gotta staple it and this is every day staple it every single day and so um now on that again I can look at it as blunt work or uh but I was looking as an opportunity yeah like I had to be the best at it hand out some clips to Lovey Smith's office defensive coordinate I'm like holy cows Lovie Smith like you know what I mean like I was able to meet so after Charlie uh I had to pass him out to the general manager's office and I passed I gave the clips to Charlie and Charlie said hey uh I talked to Wilbur and he said he you know you're interested and so um come come meet me on Friday in my office and so I'm like holy cow like this is it like it's coming so didn't know and this is being a young kid and not knowing really how to communicate effectively and handle business right so I didn't tell Dwayne Lewis our PR director because I'm like I'm not giving that job up I'm like what am I supposed to do like tell him I'm about to leave you know I mean so so you know in Fridays we're like a dress nowadays yeah so Friday you show up certain times you got the Enterprise gear going so people are looking at me like I've dressed up and um so I go up there I meet Charlie Army um and it was him and his assistant Debbie pollen in there and I just had a bunch of writing samples from my time with you know of everything that I and I wanted to show Charlie like I can write like I can I can write up a Scouting Report I have a passion for writing I love Ryan like I'm a grammar snob to this day like all my staff kind of jokes on me all the time because I'm like man why is it not accomplished or something like that but anyways I want to show them that I can write you know and so I'm in there and I'm sitting at this table with Charlie and his assistant Debbie and then next thing you know my PR director Dwayne Lewis walks into Charlie's office and I'm like yeah and uh Duane's looking at me and he's like what the what the hell did you just do like he's like why is why is my PR in turn in the general manager's office and um and so uh Charlie was on the phone and and Debbie tells you Dwayne Dev is like no he's fine he's fine he's fine and so then um Charlie gets off the phone and he just tells Dwayne he goes hey look I was talking to Brad here and you know he's interested in getting to scouting so uh after he's done with your internship that he's going to be my intern starting the draft prep process he hadn't even told me no that's how you found out I'm just like I so then you know I had a quick lesson on what an uh what an org chart is doing yeah this guy takes presidents and I love this to be a um a a scouting intern so when the season ended um you know basically like January through the draft and I was scouting intern and I was just you know labeling beta tapes and you know entering reports and you know you have to make Profile tapes uh we call protocol profile station you gotta write the time codes from the beta tapes and all that and every now and then they used to watch these tapes during the draft meetings and so every now and then Charlie would ask one of the Scottish assistants you know to come in and talk about the player and so I never forget the first who was the guy because they called me yeah oh come on give it to me I want to hear [Music] yeah but yeah but I probably should remember it but I never forget um he called me in and it's like the room is like dimly lit and this is a big projector screen on and they're watching my profile tape and it's a room full of Scouts in the gym and Lawrence mccutch yeah the player Personnel director and I'm like oh he smokes and it is like what did you think and I just told him I said I think he's this I think he's that I think he's boom boom boom boom boom and he was like all right thanks and I slept out the room and I'm like I have no idea did it work yeah anybody thought what I said but um but you know there was a scout uh dick Daniels who's uh been been one of my mentors um for a long time and I remember he came out and he told me he said Brad you did a really good job and he was the one that really taught me how to construct a scouting report and how to kind of write a place you're a young kid you come in like give me your thoughts on Roscoe Parish go and you're like no it was it was it was intimidating man and uh you just had to be ready but guess what it was just me and yourself those PR skills the Enterprise front-facing salesman skills all of it comes into play because guess what you're presenting absolutely absolutely it's almost like uh another one of my favorite movies is the karate yeah great film uh you know the uh scene of when he's complaining about you're not teaching me any karate you know like I thought I was supposed to be doing karate and he was like no wax on wax off paint the house like he's doing this and he's like no like do you get it now like you've been learning it this whole time you're just now it's showing so um but yeah you're right like all those skills just bode well but as a young kid you don't realize that at the time so um after I got done with that draft um I believe that's when we drafted uh Steven Jackson right the first round um and um I'll never forget that and then Charlie he hired me on as a full-time scouting assistant and um you know I did that for like three years and uh was just picking players up from the airport just a lot of this you know going to the combine not watching players just grabbing lunch for the GM you know between workouts and stuff like like that and uh keep doing profile tapes and you know um just enormous cognitive system duties and did that for three years and then that's when I became a combine Scout and NFS combine Scout and that to me that's the best training that you can get from a scout because you're always working on the next year's Drive class and so like so say it's the o5 draft and that March in April or February March April whatever like and so what I think is the best training is I'll never forget my first Junior Day I always had to go to University of Missouri and um you know and I met the pro liaison and he just gives me a list and he was like he walks me into the film room I don't know anything about him and I just had to sort out that whole roster like I don't know what anybody is I don't know how good anybody is and I remember I just grinded like all yeah and some of the Khalif Justin Smith first round pick or it could be a guy that has no chance of being drafted but you've got to do it yeah you just you don't know and you don't know until you watch them and that's why I tell our Scouts all the time like you know like all these free agents and all these guys that are undrafted guys and I'm like well you don't know if they're free agents are right gosh unless you look at them so uh but that that moment right there kind of showed me like look and going through that whole spring it's like it kind of gave me the whole thing of don't worry about what anybody else thinks like just trust what your eyes see and and and that's all I mean that that's kind of a hard thing to kind of yeah you have the real conviction uh especially as a young Scout because you got a lot of noise that affects you and you got group think and all this stuff that affects you and it's like we're talking about earlier about the mod dress up you want to be right and so it actually takes a very special skill to be able to say look I don't care what anybody else thinks this is what my but being a combine Scout for you to be in that moment of like you're writing all these players for the up for the next year's draft class and there is no mock drafts out there is no nobody's talking and nothing should change from the combine to the draft and yet you hear this guy's rising up a board but it's like that's the group thing where it's like well maybe we have to take another look at this guy exactly exactly and so that's I've always been big on the um psychological part of the draft process and still am and so um but those are the one of the things of the group think um the the it's a very or just the whole Conformity always look at the Solomon Ash Conformity experiment that you look at on YouTube and you know it's all those guys in the room and they're looking at these lines on this paper and it's this guy that's they say all the wrong lines and then the guy knows that he has the right answer but it still says he shares something else and he's like oh shoot it's got to be three but everybody's seen two so I guess I'm gonna say too but in your heart you know that no it was three it's not it's not two and so those are the things that you know that I'm always big on and try to eliminate that group thing and try to cut out that outside noise but I think that being a combine Scout really really uh helped me out with that and you just kind of get training in all aspects of scouting of running a pro day and having your own conviction and all that stuff so um doing that you know um for I did the Midwest and cross-checked the southeast and um after that I finally got an area job doing the Northeast and um you know we had a new regime come in um you know Billy devaney became our general manager and uh he came to Northeast area Scout job and then the Russ's history fast forwarding to the you're rising up the the chart with the Rams coach 2013 rolls around um this kid out of Pittsburgh is a defensive tackle what was your um initial thoughts and feelings on Aaron Donald the prospect yeah so uh Aaron Donald he's another great great study uh in terms of blogging out the outside noise uh and because at the time we had uh I think we had Michael Brockers and uh Kendall Langford and you know we had uh already drafted uh Chris long so we we had these big defensive lineman at the time and I go into pit and I'm like this guy's amazing but I'm like the coaches are gonna hate him because he's not big and I'm like and then so now you're battling sure you know going in how of a grade do I give them because if I get this guy this high of a grade but the coach is going to be like what are you talking about this guy's only six foot and 285 so but I'll never forget and this is why I always say to this day the intangibles are the separators of success is that um I I knew the defensive coordinator at Pitt the time Matt house because he was working with Spagnola in that previous staff under Stags and so I go into pit and I see Matt and Matt tells me uh hey Brad are you staying for practice and I said yeah yeah he said come out about a half hour early and he didn't tell me why he just told me to come out so I'm thinking as a scout I'm like oh he's gonna give me some more background information some more Intel he'll be out of practice earlier so he didn't tell me that he just told me to come out practice early so I'd come out of practice early you know they're practicing that bubble yeah yeah and so uh I go out there and I walk out to the bubble and it's the ball boys the equipment managers the Specialists the kickers the punter The Long Snapper and Aaron Donald those are the only people in the bubble and Aaron Donald is sitting on this bag fully taped up with this Twitch in his knee as if like man I've been waiting get me going all day like where's everybody at because I've been waiting on this all day and so then I see Matt house he comes out with all the coaches and uh Matt goes Brad you come out early I was like yep and he goes did you see it did you see it I didn't know that like okay I was like nothing I mean a very talented player very explosive very strong I mean all that very athletic I mean he had this rare combine but it's his work I love this it was in his passion for football that a lot of people just don't I mean they they know now but at the time like and that was my story that I told you know Leslie and Jeff Fisher like I'm like that said it all to me is that when madhouse told me to come out there early and uh when he starts when he starts slipping in the draft are you in the war room like hey guys Scott or is it understood like hey if he's there we're taking him yeah it was pretty understood you know we we had two picks a year so um you know we had um we we took Greg Robinson to a girl and but isn't that the draft in a nutshell but you know what that's the that was the premium position that was The Talented you know what I mean like that's that's and guess what every mock draft Ted Robinson going first or second there's no doubt it was him or Sammy Watkins that I think we were we were targeting and then finally we just kind of settled in on Greg Robinson but um that that was a great draft yeah I mean that was I mean after that it was so then after that when we when we got to that next pick it's like no you got you know Aaron Donald what you got um you know Mike Evans you got Zach Martin it says yes so many Odell was a great draft Yeah Odell Beckham I mean CJ Mosley like you got all these great players and so um but you know the sides were set on on air Donald I never forget when we got to that pick and a team called and uh they offered a pretty enticing trade offer and I remember Jeff unless was like absolutely not we're picking this guy and that's just it and uh I'll never forget in that draft meeting uh our assistant general manager Ray okay he was the one that really like in that draft meeting leading up to that draft because a lot of people are saying because of the size you know he was going to be a sub rush you know package guy yes kind of packaged nickel sub Rush guy and I never forget rad was like no no no no no no no no no no no no he's every now oh yeah like it it is no it's no specializing nothing and like he said it with the most passionate you know Ray Agnew you know legendary yeah defensive lineman like he's like when you hear Ray Agnew pretty self-smoking album when he had said I was like okay I remember this is real you guys played Tampa and it was a thunderstorm and I remember I don't know who the D coordinator was at the time it's probably Greg Williams they were lining Aaron up an outside linebacker in a 3-4 and and I was like I've never seen this before and it was in a rainstorm and he was just out there second quarterbacks from the olb position he is he has rare I mean if you look back at his combine he had shuttle times like he had DB shuttle time but he just he had like 30 reps at 225 and ran a four six and because of the way he's built and he's still got long arms and he's so explosive but again like he's talented I tell the story all the time about Aaron Donald and I said about Cooper cup as well when I was like man like this guy loves isn't that the common denominator with all these guys so hard like because that time where he was the first one in that bubble in practice he's been that way every single day he's the first one out at practice every day and I'll never forget even his rookie year before he was even starting I never forget I had to run to the facility uh real quick it was it was a Saturday Saturday night and um I think I was heading out on the road somewhere the next day and so I run the facility grab stuff and there's Aaron Donald and he was in the works of like there's no place it's like that's like eight nine o'clock at night it's Aaron Donald in the whirlpool watching his eyes he's not even the starter he's not even the starter but he's preparing like he's the starter as a rookie and um and it was it was the same way with with Cooper cop when you know we drafted him and that's when it really it hit me I'm like look man if these players don't have the intangibles and the passion in the work ethic and the football character it's not gonna work all right that's just the bottom one I love this stuff we're gonna we're gonna do rapid fire and then we're gonna wrap this up we haven't even gotten into some of the lion stuff I want to talk about Jericho that'll be another time yeah I'm gonna go rapid fire and you just give me some answers and we go from there your greatest Mentor as a football professional not in life but it's a football person in your career who is the person that kind of you look to and say this guy's show me the ropes and I'd have to say dick Daniels okay I don't know I don't know that name so tell me who he is yeah uh so so dick Daniels he was our Northeast Scout at the time when I first joined the scouting Department as a scouting intern and he's the one that kind of took the time out to that's that's the guy that told me good job after I went in that dark room and Spilled my guts about this player on this profile tape I made and um and he just kind of told me like hey look man like this is this is what you got to do this is how you do it and uh we went to this college All-Star game called the cactus okay like this small school college All-Star Game down in Texas this is back when they said like 140 yard dash and stuff at All-Star games and uh I remember he it was just me and him and every morning before we went out to practice we would sit in that Lobby and he would just tell me just all the ins and outs of roster building team building I mean like he was he was that guy and you know he had been in lead for 30 years you know down there and he just would just give me so much knowledge and Intel so if I I like that I kind of was it was because a lot of guys I can name like a name Lords McCutchen I could I could I I can name less I love it you know I I but uh from from the very get-go that I'd have to say anything who is the player that you remember being most convicted about and using your voice the loudest and maybe if you want to say pounding the table to be selected in any any draft any team you've been a part of hmm it could be a late round guy who you're like hey let's take a shot on this guy it could be a first round pick someone that you were like this is my dude and I remember asking Jason light about this and he was like in Philly Trent Cole was my guy you know like you just have this random guy like that's my guy you know for for me it was John Johnson the safety at a BC safety oh talk about it I love this uh also it was funny that draft um I remember was like that's when we first hired Sean McVeigh and um you know we had a lot of new coaches and less you know less was in that whole hiring process so less you know he usually he's like deep diving everything all the time he didn't have that kind of no he's interviewing Doug Marone and 11 other guys his whole regime makeover and so I'll never forget um we get into the third round and you get to those points in the draft where the board just looks kind of foggy like no one's really standing out no one's really kind of it's just kind of just static it's staying and everybody's kind of snaring at it and you know um everybody started names and I just said I was just like John Johnson I said this is let's just pick John Johnson and I never forget uh Wade Phillips he looks over at me and he's like John Johnson I said I'm telling you this guy's a starter yes but he's a starting so Wade Phillips I love Wayne Phillips he's just like oh he's a starter man trust him let's go and so I just and so I just kept counting the table for John Johnson I said I'm telling you John Johnson like because I remember I went on to BC Yukon game saw him live like I just love what I saw out of them like another guy just high intangibles high working I actually thought he was going to be more of a coverage here and then he actually transformed himself into more of a box kind of player but uh I'll never forget I just that that was the moment I think that I felt like you know I had just like a voice and I think it was a needed voice because like you know you had a whole new coaching staff you know we did just a lot of change and you know makeover there and um I never forget you know full circle moment you're in New Orleans NFC Championship game a few years later who makes the biggest play of the game no well you could say a lot of guys dude but I I actually think Jared golf played one of these you did but I'm saying John Johnson makes the big pick at the end John Johnson made the big yeah uh that golf was awesome in that game you know everyone and I I've worked with Sean Payton this past year and he's still sensitive about it because obviously the non-call on the Nicole Roby Coleman thing but I always say to him no doubt you're up 13 nothing at home you got you got the ball first in overtime you got to close the door but Jared Goff that day would not quit and some of those big third round conversions oh wow and like game it was it was the loudest thing ever and it's like he'd literally he couldn't hear his headset went off he's he's busting an ass to try to run to the receiver before the play clock in to tell them to sit like that it wasn't just about his stats about him throwing it was about the adverse he came through but it's funny you said that about champagne because I talked about I talked to Dan about that game oh because Dan's on the staff for the Saints sure started working together yeah and uh and you know Dan like me and Dan are just we're so much like the same person Dan he never said anything about all that cold yeah like no he was like no we shouldn't have put ourselves in position to actually get to the you know I mean like you know he like we're all about accountability like that's just running so much in in our building and Dan was like no no man we shouldn't have put ourselves in a position to actually give y'all an opportunity to do you know what I mean so you know you gotta love Dan's response on that it's just like that's such a Dan Campbell were you were you at Jared goff's pro day at Cal were you there that day no I I wasn't they speak they speak in legendary I mean I think Mike Silva wrote a beautiful piece on it that when it happened but like the Rams whatever his private workout or a pro day but it was it was whipping rain and it was raining Yeah we actually purposely didn't really send people out to his program but yeah we kind of wanted to keep it close to the best uh but no I remember um the private workout and I I wasn't there but I know less you know Jeff all those guys were there right it was done you just heard it was just like man like because I think they did him and Carson Wentz like the same trip I think and um and I guess yeah you know it was all good for Carson went to terms of the weather and the conditions but Jared and I never I think we kind of gave Jared a choice to move and he was like no let's go and he was like no no let's go and um and he was out there just whipping it man and he's stranding talented and I I'm I'm so happy for you me too I've been with I mean I've been covering Jared since he got in but like for you it's this personal connection where you know you draft him in in La then you yourself get this job in Detroit and the first big move you make is you trade their franchise quarterback and it almost felt like it was a throw in like yeah we'll give you golf too but but here's Jared Goff last year as one of the best quarterbacks in the NFC well I remember when we were all hammering off the details of the trade um I mean because you know it was kind of that Carousel of available quarterbacks of that year in terms of like who was going to be available so obviously you know uh Staffing was getting traded to the Rams but I never forget less asked me he was like do you want Jared in this trade and I was like hell yeah like absolutely like it wasn't like just give me any quarterback no I was like no I want Jared in this trade and the reason why I'm so proud of him and I'm so happy for him is because that first year man like you know look it was almost like the guy as a starter in L.A like four out of five years he's in the postseason if not Super Bowl and you know he won a game in Seattle in the playoffs with like one hand 2019 was like a one year that he did but yeah so like we make the trade and the way that the narrative was of how the trade went it kind of went like oh well jerk I can't play and I'm like dude this guy was just in the divisional plane with a broken hand completing 70 of its passes like why can't he play anymore so then we start the season and me and Dan we tear the roster down to the studs I mean literally the only thing we really had was an offensive line and even all of those guys got hurt I mean besides finish Sewell oh those guys are beat up so we really didn't have much in the skill player Department we didn't really I mean we had a beat up offensive line we didn't really have any weapons around him to throw to like we thought that we didn't have any money to play with in free agency really so we kind of had to play the cop formula and um and then we got Tyrell Williams and Rashad Pearson veteran guys just yeah it's like oh we have those guys in it Tyler Williams kind of gets hurt he's not been able to cut for shopping so now we have like this rookie among like that's it and so um and then we kind of claimed but you know everything that he went through that year I mean you know you gotta think Detroit you're talking about a football town like this is a fan base that is unlike anything I've ever experienced like this fan base they care about their football I mean it's legit I absolutely love them but they're mad at Jared I mean he was getting the boobs and all that and I'm like all right all right we don't have any weapons for this guy offensive line is beat up we had to make a mid-season offensive coordinator to change Dance Calling plays for the first time Ashley did a really good job at it but and I'm like what quarterback would be successful going through that kind of situation like I don't I don't know what quarterback would be success can I tell you something also can I tell you nothing Jared doesn't have any weapons doesn't have an offensive line you know where I got my respect for him the toughness and all that's great and that's the quarterbacks that didn't say a peep yeah didn't say a peep didn't didn't moan didn't didn't speak negatively about McVeigh once even though there was rumors out there that like oh yeah McVay couldn't win just kind of put his head down went to work okay I'm a quarterback let's go and I know he's a number one pick and he makes a lot of money and everyone says well that's what he says it's a lot easier said than done absolutely absolutely and that's I've always said about yeah like you said like the toughness yeah it's a quarterback you got to have that but the middle and I've always respected Jersey mental companies like he that's one trait of him that I think kind of goes under the radar a little bit but he has like top level Elite mental toughness because I've seen a lot of things that he's been so like I'm talking about the NFC Championship Game the first New Orleans like people don't talk about like the noise that he had to deal with and all that stuff but he goes to our 21 season and he does not complain he does not about this and that and that he just goes through it and it starts coming together late in the season and then you know he has a year that he had last year and now it's like oh Jerry gone's good and I'm like well he's actually always been good but everybody like I talk about the psychology of the process it's the recency box and it's like oh well the last thing we saw is Jared Goff got casted off so he can't play anymore and the last thing we saw was him in 2021 so he can't play anymore right like I'm like no he can play so when he had the season he had last year I think a lot of people were like oh Jared goffies and I'm like you know he's he's always been a good quarterback he's always been over talented you know he's always had those traits um to excel a football team and so um again I'm just super happy but like what you're saying about him not complaining him not you know saying this or that like that's what makes him pretty cool he's a Detroit liar like he's he's he's that like he's embodied what the city's about and I think the toughness and everything that he's endured and I think everybody just has a lot more appreciation about him and again I think we'll be even better offensively this year coming up and um I'm just I'm just excited about it all right we've been on for over an hour we're gonna wrap it here one last one it's been amazing I could do I could honestly do an audio book with you for six hours I'm loving this I want to talk about Tavon Austin I want to talk about Stedman Bailey I want to go I want to go deep I'm going to go deep dude I want to talk about what that was another one one of those drafts though man like that 2013 draft man I know I want to talk Kirby Joseph for the next hour with you um let's wrap it with this Lions fans listening this is the first time in two decades I'd say that they actually have a little pep in their step and there's actual some national media attention saying the Lions could be the team um I know you're excited with what you've built what would be your message to Lions fans as we head towards to start a training camp you know just continue to stick with us and just continue to know that we're not done yet and just know that we're always gonna work hard keep our pedal to the metal where I was going to stay aggressive um you know I love the fact that it's a lot of this what they call Buzz and hope and I I think this fan base and our our city deserves that uh just through all that they've been through but at the end of the day me and Dan know that you know we hadn't made the playoffs yet and so that's that that's what has to be we got to get in the dance and uh you know we we have full faith and optimism that I think we have the right structure in place uh that that we can we can get that done but uh we got to go out and prove it and that's that's how we're wired we're we're all about accountability and RNA to do it the right way and that's what the city of Detroit is it's roll up your sleeves get it done no excuses and uh just know that you know uh that's your your football team is doing the exact same thing and um I think it's a lot of reasons for the optimism and excitement but uh I do think that um you know all bearing healthy and all that uh I do think that the fans would be really excited and uh first game Thursday night kickoff let's go um absolutely Brad Holmes this was awesome honestly I feel like we should do a weekly hour-long show oh this is awesome I don't even know it was an hour they're out the clocks um I love talking to you I think you're great at what you did a good conversation but I really honestly think uh you've got great perspective not only on football but on life and uh it's cool your path man I didn't know the Enterprise rental car stuff but it makes a lot of sense to me yeah as well-rounded guys you'll meet in the NFL I I love you coming on thanks so much for joining thanks a lot Sheree you you do it the right way man I got a lot of respect for what you do man and um you know you uh make football fun hey I had a I had Jack Campbell in my top ten just so you know I didn't no I didn't [Laughter] Brad Holmes everybody that was awesome thanks Brad all right see you later man

Channel: NFL

Views: 50,810

Keywords: NFL, Football, American Football, sport, sports

Id: k_T3tiOKERY

Length: 71min 39sec (4299 seconds)

Published: Tue Jul 11 2023