Lib Dem Leader Ed Davey Says Rwanda Bill Is 'Expensive and Unworkable'

I tell you what why don't we speak to a political leader Ed David who's here right now very good morning Ed David liberal Democrat uh leader joins us what do you think about this the fact that we still have this long taale of covid damage for children for children's education you know the lockdown was really important to protect the NHS we can acknowledge that but it devastated children's education looks like that is going to continue suzan I think you're absolutely right if you talk to teachers and parents they say that they feel that children who were particularly affected and didn't get the support in in school during that period they've really lost and you're seeing it in in Behavior amongst some groups of children you're getting that from primary teachers I speak as a parent of a a 10-year-old girl and I know that that my daughter lost out during that that period and the government actually asked an expert uh to look at it he proposed a 14 billion pound package which was rather like a lot of other countries were proposing unfortunately the government didn't fund it uh there were some good things in it that did happen but just too few of them so one thing that was good was tutorials and and having independent tutors come to help the schools and help the children um there's some evidence that worked but it's just not been continued it's not funded you do you feel like I do um that actually we could have done more at the time of lockdown that you know because you know you backed the lockdown um do you regret the fact that you didn't speak up for schools and school children at that time well to be fair as we did speak up for for schools and we particularly said that those children who were going to school with special needs and with the children of of care workers that was really important yeah but that's what the government did what I'm saying is about trying to keep the schools open for all children because we've got the inquiry now haven't we and and you know I mean one of the things that the chief medical officer said is one of his regrets is that we didn't lock down earlier but I wonder whether we're going to consider whether locking down the schools was the right thing to do do you think it was the right thing to do well um I think it was right in some cases but I think you're right to go to the inquiry Susanna um one of the reasons we set up the inquiry and I was the first MP to challenge Boris Johnson the then prime minister on it and it was a question the house that he actually granted that inquiry um we need that inquir to learn the lessons because there would have been mistakes and it's going to happen and it's going to happen again we are going to have another pandemic at some point I reget we so we really need to learn the lessons and you know we can all talk with the benefit of hindsight I'm I'm asking exactly that question with the benefit of hindsight would you do the same with schools or would you try and keep the schools open I think we tried to keep more of them open for sure um I mean if you look at the impact on on children's mental health and so on we need to learn the lessons but I think it's really important we do get the inquiry that's why liberal Democrats championed that inquiry so important and as we know the inquir is um going on now but we also want to talk to you about uh defense perspective well I was going to say we're talking about hindsight um let's talk about foresight uh because that is what appears to be the overarching sort of philosophy here we're looking ahead and saying that by what 2030 we're going to be spending 2.5% on defense uh which is right up there what are we going to get for our money do you think well we live in a very insecure world uh We've now got a an a war on the European continent uh we're seeing threats from China particularly with respect to Taiwan and unless we prepare so liberal Democrats share the ambition of increasing the defense spending to 2.5 and we need to make sure we use that wisely here's one thing uh the government have cutting the troop numbers by 10,000 if the conservatives have their way we'd have an army British Army smaller than any time since the Napoleonic Wars it' be the the smallest Army for our country for over 200 years and liberal Democrats have been raising that in Parliament and saying this is not right we should reverse these okay so more money for more boots on the ground you would you would argue what about this this extraordinary phrase really that the the Prime Minister used yesterday that Britain is now moving onto a war footing um what do you make of that I mean because that coners up all sorts of images like National conscription yeah I'm not quite sure what he meant if I'm honest with you it seems an odd odd turn of phrase but what we do need to do is to make sure our defense industry is working with other with our colleagues whether it's in the United States or in Europe are preparing one thing I am worried about particularly with respect to Ukraine uh with the possibility of a president Trump second term when he's been really unsure about whether America will support Ukraine I think we need to prepare for that I think we need to be working with our European colleagues we need to be looking at sources of Finance one big source of finance that liberal Democrats keep talking about is these Frozen Russian assets billions of is about 30 billion of Frozen Russian ass rele that to Ukraine yeah yeah um and if you look across the world we're talking hundreds of billions of froan Russian assets and I don't see why our government other governments Don't Get Around the table and say look Russia is killing innocent ukrainians it's it's doing most appalling treatment and if we don't stop it it could go into that's helping if in a sense by fighting a proxy war isn't it I mean if we are on a war footing what what specifically what threats does the UK face do you think in the future what are we looking at I mean what should we be be frightened of well I Russia for starters what expanding Beyond Ukraine potentially but also what's happening in Ukraine is affecting us we saw that with Energy prices didn't we we we've all every single one cut in there are you suggesting that if we didn't help Ukraine and if America hadn't just passed this extraordinary package of Aid which is now going to Ukraine if we didn't do that if we backed away and in effect Russia won and possibly was in ke by by next summer are you saying that you actually think that that Putin you agree with those who would say that Putin would then expand into other parts of Eastern Europe well that has to be a risk I mean look at what's happening in Russia they've put their economy on a war footing they're spending huge amounts on defense yes first of all to win the war in Ukraine let's hope they do we must stop the Russians there but if we didn't then that huge War economy there developing direct go further so we must take the Russian risk much more seriously and it's beyond that actually if you look at the risk from China on Taiwan there are lots of points of conflict and I can't remember a time that's so insecure so we absolutely must increase our spending on defense what I was worried about uh the Prime Minister just made this announcement yesterday he should look in the mirror in the budget they announced a defense budget which was a cut of3 billion pound in real terms so he's saying one thing to the cameras so doing a completely different thing yeah so um let's talk about what happened with uh the uh death in the channel yesterday absolutely shocking on the same day of course that the Rwanda bill was passed now the government would say tragic events in the channel five people dead including a child of seven is exactly the reason why we've introduced the Rwanda Bill isn't it the deterrent we need well it is a tragedy and it's not the first and if we don't act to stop the boats m it won't be the last so Liber Democrats have always argued that these Boat Crossings need to be stopped the question is how well and and now bill has been passed which means you put people on planes to Rwanda it stops them getting into the boats to cross the channel does it Susanna that's the question and this the question don't know yet because it's only just been passed well I think we have an idea let's take you through it because we want to stop the boats and the question is how they are spending the conservative spending already half a billion pounds and not single person has gone to Rwanda I think it's the most expensive and unworkable scheme I've ever put I've ever seen put for got people getting on the boats well the the theory behind this scheme let's be clear is they're saying it's going to be deterrent yeah but it was interesting I've seen people interviewed who saying well you know what um I'm willing a I'm willing to take a risk and B if I go to Rwanda I'm happy still so it's not a deterrent there's no evidence and we've been asking the government if you're going to spend millions of pounds of taxpayers money on this scheme which we all agree we need to stop the boat but if you're going to spend this money on this scheme is it going to produce the results and they no trouble is the trouble is there was no answer yesterday uh really satisfactorily from the minister which is if if dying in the channel is not going to stop people getting into the boats how on Earth is the remote possibility that you're going to get on a plane and be sent to Rand here's what's your plan yeah yeah what's your plan well I don't know if you saw that footage last night of the French police trying to stop being overwhelmed by the numbers of the but that's where it should that should be something even further Upstream to be honest we we need to stop the Smugglers these are criminals some of the worst criminals in you mention this footage it was BBC footage I have to say um and it showed quite clearly that the French Gary even though they were fairly mob-handed themselves were clearly intimidated by about a 100 150 Asylum Seekers and their handlers and the and the Smugglers and they were B basically beaten off with sck ston yeah so what's your plan well I think we need to make sure that the criminal enforcement the French police and our police have the tools to do the job properly we need to work with our International part Partners this isn't an issue just affecting the UK and we need to make sure these international criminal gangs who are so wicked but profiteering so much we target them I want a deterrent uh Susanna yeah but the deterrent is that these people don't do it because we catch them the mayor the mayor of the Town says it's our fault he says the only reason that they're getting on the boats is because we offer them a safe haven well um he's he's entitled to his view what I would say is the French police need the resources we need to support them and they need to do a better job I I was not impressed by them yesterday I have to say no coming back to the Rwanda point there I mean there were plenty of politicians in Australia not that long ago who are saying exactly the things that you've been saying here and and people of your ilk are saying uh when Australia was proposing sending their illegal immigrants to an island in the Pacific but it's worked no actually I've looked at the Australian scheme and talked to Australians who've been involved in that debate it's a very very different uh system there um what I would like to see well they take illegal immigrants they put them on a plane and they drop them on on island in the Pacific and and and the and the numbers of Asylum Seekers reaching Australia has dropped dramatically well I do think it's a different scheme if you look at the details uh Richard inp but what we need to do and liberal Democrats are really clear on this is working with our International Partners we were there was a time when we were the lead Nation at europol making sure there was cooperation and let's remember this didn't used to be a problem go back a few years ago can you remember talking about it I can't remember talking about it we pulled out of Euro we stopped uh working with our International partners and then the problem came okay so what we're proposing is going back to what we used to do which used to work okay uh before we let you go um having been criticized for a long time for not apologizing to the post office campaigner Alan Bates um who you would had origin Ally back in 2010 refused to meet and then finally did under advice from civil servants that you needed to see him for presentational reasons you seem to have been falling over yourself to apologize to him more recently but you were post office minister at the time of the Horizon Scandal Who do you think ultimately uh is responsible for the catastrophe that's happened and what punishment needs to be Meed out well I think it's the post office Executives and there may well have been people in Fujitsu the it contractor um they've clearly lied to me to many other ministers over the 20-year period so criminal prosecutions yeah I mean clearly we need the inquiry the inquiry is absolutely crucial but the Metropolitan Police has got an investigation a criminal investigation and I totally support that I was advocating for the inquiry we have to hold the people accountable for their lies and for what they did to those hundreds of sub poost Masters it is a public opinion seems to be very strongly in favor of if there are successful prosecutions and the evidence appears to be overwhelming that these people should go to jail yes given that they they they sent innocent people to jail they should get a effect a taste of their own medicine you agree with that yeah I totally agree with that yeah yeah um one quick personal question you're about to hang up your political towel and head for the hills aren't you what are you talking about oh I'm sorry I I understood that you were looking to the Future and thinking of maybe doing something different did I did I misread that was that a go that a gossip as the leader of one of the main political parties that would be quite an announcement it was a little was a little gossip paragraph I read I you read that I just I throw it at you I can deny that totally I but what I can say is um I thought in the budget we saw rishy sunak preparing for retirement uh when he announced a Silicon Valley uh investment I thought yeah we know he knows he's going to lose the next election Li Democrats are going to do really well at next election I'm really proud to lead our great party and no plans to head for the hills no no no okay I couldn't trip you up DAV thanks very much thank you very much welcome Andrew Kevin your Reflections I I have to say on the post office uh there has to be criminal prosecutions because some people there people who knew those prosecutions were based on a lie that only the postmasters had access to that Horizon it system people knew and we've got to find out who they were and they've got to be pulled before the courts that's right and potentially go to prison I want to know why Ed is going to spend more on defense rather than spending what we already do better because we're I think the sixth biggest spender in cash terms in the world what will what will we actually get and how will you fund it so how many nurses will be sacked how many teachers will have to go how many potholes will be how many how many benefits will be cut how many pensions will be cut or what the taxes will go up there is no evidence that more spending will make us safer well it's very interesting to listen to Ben Wallace the former Defense secretary he's challenging the the government to answer that very question and he's saying they shouldn't go ahead with tax cuts they plan just before the election and I think that's going to be a question for the conservatives if they're now suddenly going to want to spend more money on the defense having cut defense and want to give tax cuts on tax cuts on tax I mean it really I don't think people believe anything they say now they're so desperate they're saying absolutely anything well let's find out what they say when we speak to the defense secretary Grant shaps what gets cut to increase the defense bu is it David thanks very much indeed and Kevin thank you thank you good to see you

Channel: Good Morning Britain

Views: 4,278

Keywords: good morning britain, breakfast show, news, morning news, gmb, good morning britain interview, itv, susanna reid, Talk Shows - Topic, lib dems, liberal democrats, liberal democrats uk, ed davey, ed davey interview, covid 19, gcses, stop the boats, rwanda plan, migrants, crossing the channel, postal scandal

Id: jv4GjA3ushY

Length: 15min 13sec (913 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 24 2024