LET'S TALK TECH-347 VS 351w-BOOST?

we're live it's after seven it's like 7 15 i got a little bit late because i had an excellent date night with my lovely wife lisa who might said she might be posting later on so that will be cool um i just posted a video today if you guys can take a look i have the video up i've got some training what's going on here we compared the 347s which is a 302 base stroker to a 351 windsor so what i want to know from you guys when you finally arrive here is which one would you like better would you do you think that the 347 is the way to go like a stroker 302 base motor or is the 351 windsor and personally i think it depends on what you're trying to do like i really really like the 351 windsor especially after we did the big bang on it it's got lots of power potential i don't think we could get anywhere near that kind of power level on a stock 302 block whether it's a 302 or a 331 or 347 i just don't think it has the power potential to make the power that a 350 351 windsor does so for me i think i would choose that plus it gives you the ability to do 383 392 408 kind of thing so you you know bigger obviously is is always better so it can make more power so that's why i would pick that one we've run lots and lots and lots and lots and a whole bunch of lots of lots of 340 347s because that seems to be the way that most people go a 302 works good and the only thing better than that is a 325 or a 331 or even a 347 lots of guys don't like them because they say that they side loaded and don't last and all that stuff but i was kind of more interested in comparing the different kinds of displacements we had the short deck 302 base motor and then the the taller deck 351 and so guys have oh guys brought up a lot of things like oh what about the bearing size and the roger or the main journals and all that stuff i'm like look you're you're focusing on the wrong thing um basically the big thing is displacement so if the displacements are similar and then you start looking at the other things is the compression similars the camshaft the cylinder heads yada yada if all that stuff is similar they're going to make similar power because the big thing as i said is displacement and then when you do the other things and they're comparable i know we didn't use the exact same components and i'm hoping that guys at least one guy in a whole i'm hoping 10 made the apples the oranges comparison because they always do that and i love that like we're all fruit growers or whatever but it's super cool um i for for me especially again like as i said after doing the big bang three 351 it's hard for me to say 351 windsor uh with the twin turbos i think that it's awesome i don't think we could get the thousand horsepower stuff with the five liter but let me know if you guys think that we can on a five liter short block i know that we've done other stuff on the drag strip and and with the guys at hp performance and when we were doing turbos with them stuff in the neighborhood of 750-800 pounds of torque when we were when they were out drag racing thing seem to want to split the block but let me again let me know what you guys think that's why that's why we're here but if you have not taken a look make sure to go take a look and right now i'm working on two interesting videos one of them is uh the myth of dynamic compression and that actually should get a lot of viewers um i should get a lot of comments and i'm gonna talk a little bit about what dynamic compression is compared to static oppression and then what dynamic compression is not because i get i get a lot of people that when they find out about one thing like if they find out about cross-sectional area or coefficient of discharge or in this case or rod ratio or in this case um dynamic compression they think that that's the only thing that's the only thing that matters that's going to determine how much octane we can run or how much power we can make and it determines the camshaft and it determines a lot of things and what they don't realize is and what the focus of that video will be you guys at least as in the house yeah lisa what you guys will get to realize is that um the dynamic impression like everything else can be useful but it's uh it's it's you know it's a difference between it being causal and it being correlated like it's not the only thing there are lots of other things that are going to determine how much power your motor is going to make lots of other things are going to determine how much octane you have to run what the detonation threshold is all of those things that is one of the indicators but for a lot of guys that's like the holy grail of all of the things as soon as they learned about this they're like oh yeah that determines everything and as we'll see it doesn't determine everything any more than anything else determines everything too many oh that's why i can't talk that's what you're saying too many drinks i say not enough okay let's see 351 for sure beefier more displacement yes i like that 347 would be good yeah that 347 actually belonged to the guys at hot rod magazine it's a test that i did for them and we ran a couple of different trick flow heads on it with that camshaft and i didn't take that full that thing actually worked fairly well boss 302 stroked the 342 that would be good yeah and that's the other thing is it if you look at what we would have spent had we bought all that stuff a starting with a junkyard 351 is a lot cheaper the thing that i don't like about us starting with a junkyard 351 is that that efi motor has a really big dish piston like it would have been cool if that was a flat top piston or a flat type piston that had valve release but you're probably only going to get that from the aftermarket this is what date night has come to my wife it's just like 17 different kinds of awesome david says hi richard michael i had a 74 pantera it had a 351 cleveland we had the car up to 145 on the way to his house i used to babysit for him on the condition that he picked me up in the pantera see that's a that's a good rule i like that excuse me tim wants to know what's the consensus on what a 94 roller 351 windsor can handle the stock bottom end so far has gone well over a thousand horsepower so we think that there's maybe more a modernized 265 probably not high on the lister everyone say hi to lisa what's up with my fellow gearheads from socal who's the genius given the thumbs down like does it say who gives the thumbs down so like can i can call them out and contact them and find out like what their issues why don't they like some of this stuff let's go to sam yeah that's why dynamic compression is why you should have big compression with big cams that's the best combination does running aluminum heads keep your combustion temperature lower yes it does and but does an aluminum head make more power than iron head and they've tried that engine messes i know time and time again to find a way to actually test that but the problem is having an exactly an exact duplicate of an iron head versus an aluminum head i know that manufacturers make iron heads and aluminum versions but what they found out when they were doing it what brulee and freiberger and those guys found out is even though that they say that they're the same head they're actually not they're different and the chamber is different and the part is different and lots of things are different about them uh the compression on the 347 i think was a flat top piston so i'm thinking it's close to ten to one it was a lot higher than the 351 was hello from nine mile wa i'm assuming that that's washington hello from my friends up north the price difference would be different between those two the 347 would certainly be more money yes everyone say hi to the lovely lisa we had a wonderful happy hour date night was awesome the packard v8 yeah i've never run one of those or a straight eight would also be awesome i've never run one of those one of the things i was looking at while i went down the pontiac rabbit hole is the four cylinder punic now i knew about the sprint motor but i didn't know about the four-cylinder version that they made so that would be hard to find and it would definitely be like other guys stuff a 430 yes that would be interesting 434 would be cool yeah packers were a straight eight that's why i mentioned that thomas wants to know so along the same lines of this test 427 small bucks chevy versus 427 ls i i think for me i think it's really hard for the small block chevy to beat an ls the ls has the advantage going in if you look at one of the what the stock power outputs are and you look at the advantage that a small bot chevy has um i would like to see somebody do that and find out what the difference really is if you put really good heads i know that when we put together a typical like i i put together 383 ls motors and they make somewhere between 540 horsepower and 600 horsepower and i just haven't had a lot of 383 small-block chevys get up to 600 and i know that they can because i know that there's guys that are capable of doing that i just think that the ls stuff makes more power than the small box chevy does the early four david says that the early 40 if i gave a lot of problems would be better to just carbon he i distribute those engines if you're talking about like a five liter mustang um we made lots and lots of power with a factory electronics so i didn't see that we and i ran mine out the silver state wide open throttle for half an hour so if something was going to happen that was based on the electronics i don't think that that's a problem uh 84 crossfire cross ram intake with two double barrel carbs instead of the efi out of 283 going at a gaster no that's definitely fun that's not junk um the the the l83 intake manifold unless you're doing a oh no you aren't doing an 84 corvette so this that's going to be an la3 and it probably will be much better it will be more able to feed a 283 than it will be feed the 350 but i do want to do a test on those because i think that those are awesome a flathead v8 uh radon that i got a guy that's going to let me run some uh flathead four-cylinder stuff but not a um not a v8 see uh three scta records with a buick straight eight that's cool i i like that they do that those vintage classes where you can run those kinds of motors what would a 331 do with all the 347 stuff on it's going to just make less power it's going to have less compression it's going to have less displacement so even if you just did it based on math so if the 347 made a certain number of horsepower per cubic inch or per liter however you want to divide it up and then you reduce that you know you took that number and then multiplied it by 331 or whatever the displacement of the 331 is and you just multiply that out it's gonna make less power smaller motors make less power they don't magically oh this one has a better rod ratio or this one has the short stroke so it's going to want to rev yada yada it just makes less power sheridan wyoming what's up i i have driven through wyoming it's pretty country any power on any power advantage to a coil on plug setup on a 351 windsor i don't think so given the how much power we've made with distributors and single coils and and some kind of uh ignition amplifier you'd have to be up there pretty far i think to get coil unplug stuff yes aaron we've heard about the rpm act if that's what you're talking about have you ever built up any foreign v6s i haven't run them on the engine dyno uh we've done some i was back when the guys were the show shop guys were doing those those were yamaha motors so they were ford but they were built by yamaha stuff um if you're talking about nissans or toyotas or hondas i want to do the honda 3.2 or 3.5 the j series stuff on the engine i know that will be fun [Music] yeah pontiac had a v8 way back the one that i'm running in 57 was their next generation tim wants me to do y block forwards i've never run one of those like a 312 from a from a t-bird or something pinedale wyoming so you wyoming guys should get together yeah joe a 347 with a 4125 bore and a three to five stroke would be good um but you know what's better is make it a three four hundred stroke and make that 363. we've run lots of those and those make really good power we've run the dart shp blocks and those things work very well matthew just put together a 331 windsor junior heads 274 cam and if you want stream looking for any put advice or upgrading here take a look at the small block chevy head test that we did the windsor jr is not a great cylinder head there are better choices but a 331 with a decent head like an afr or trick flow and that cam shaft at a v1s trim can make a lot of power depending on what intake you're using also is going to determine kind of what's happening there at the top how about building a high revving d-stroke 4.3 liter well the 4.3 liter l99 is already a de-stroked motor so it's a three-inch stroke right now it just has a small bore also so it will rev you know more than enough we just got to get the um [Music] get the valve train right down and what we're going to do is put that stuff in a 5 7 bore so it'll be a three inch stroke and a four inch bore it'll be a 302 so it'll be a gen 2 dz 302 and then we'll try to rev that thing up at least a little bit maybe with a blower on it uh thomas i don't know about the crate motors whether or not a 427 versus a 427 crate motor is going to be an accurate depiction of what's going on because a lot of that's going to depend on what components they chose if you put stock 5 3 heads on there and put a stock cam shaft in an ls obviously on a 427 it's not going to make very much power and the same thing with a small block chevy if you put fuel heads on it it's just not going to make very much power so it depends on what things you choose for that displacement dan i haven't tested a 400 small block to failure i don't know what the limit is on the 400 [Music] of jody i've never messed with a an industrial 352 yeah bill spineltab spins at 11 000. it's got a long stroke on it that's what i'm saying that's what i keep telling people is that it's not um because he's been as scienced out he spent a lot of time on the spintron with billy over at comp and stuff and they they've scienced out what's happening in the ballot train so they had to get it to did work a lot and he's got a really big camshaft in that thing it's a lot of lift and it's a lot of duration so they had to science that out and then the other thing you have to do is not just the camps you have to get to make power up there but the ramp rates have to be right and then the frequency has to be matched to the spring rate so it's not just having lots of spring rate that doesn't cure it as a matter of fact that can actually make it worse so you have to match the camshaft to the rpm range you want to run with the frequency of the spring and my guess is and i haven't seen this i've talked to ben directly about this but my guess is you're gonna go through areas where the frequencies don't match so you have instability at eight thousand or eighty five hundred that you don't have it ten or ten five or eleven thousand or however far they're going a 400m you want to do a big bang on there not a lot of those well the if you look at my favorite 400 i i don't really have a favor i like them all i like what we did with the 400m that was great but a 400m is completely different designed motor than like the 400 pontiac or the it's kind of the same as yeah david it's kind of the same as a 400 chevy because it was used in a lot of heavy cars as an interim between a big block and a small block and the same thing with 400m it was used kind of in place of the 460 but the 400 pontiac was actually used as a performance motor and so that thing was run with lots of cool stuff you had you know the ram air versions and that thing was more of a performance motor so i think ultimately that one would probably make more power until you started modifying them and then they're all 400 inch motors you put good heads on it put big cam shafts david what's up number one fan yeah number one andrew 4.99 you've done some videos for speedmaster what's your opinion on the 210 small black fork head as a budget head i have that video up i think on the channel i think i've run the speedmaster heads the ass gas head and the cnc head are not the fordheads anyway the ones that we tested are not they're not comparable to an airflow research or a trick flow head so they're better than a stock head but they're not anywhere near what those other heads will do our belt drive timing chain conversions for valve train harmonics or something else um usually the belt drive most of the guys like those because they're external and they're dry and they're also externally adjustable so if a guy wants to adjust them um i don't know that a belt was is going to be have more or less stretch than the chain does i'm thinking that it has less but i don't know that a belt drive has the longevity like you nobody i know ever runs a hundred thousand miles on a belt drive dave wants to know my thoughts on the gt40p head take a look at the small block ford uh video that's up on all of the cylinder heads i tested the gt40p heads they're they're below an aluminum gt40 aluminum head they're above a stock head so they work fairly well lots of guys have done stuff with porting those and milling those and made pretty decent power oh a nissan 5 6 versus a toyota yeah that would be good that would be a good comparison i just would have to figure out a way to run both of them all right patrick get to work man a vintage vw flat 4 with dpi i've actually done some volkswagen testing um i've done some i did some storage for hot vws back in the day where we did the bus heads and then we did the um them staking the seats into the head so they don't come out and i also did some testing where we ran the they were weber fuel injection they looked like weber carburetors with injectors inside of them and we ran them on v8 but we also ran them on volkswagens and the guy that we were talking to the shop that we were working this was interesting because he was you know he was the king of all things volkswagen he was telling me how much that less power that these things were going to make than his super 48 52s 58 60s whatever size weber he was talking about and so he ran his stuff on his motor and this was a motor that he had competed in an engine masters type thing for volkswagen guys but unfortunately they had like a land and seed i know that they kind of had to to adjust manually and they said okay i said i'll well let's see let's see what happens and then we ran that and he could never do a sweep like a traditional dino does they had to load it and adjust it and then stop and then load it and adjust it because they can't run the volkswagen for very long because the air cooled and it will heat up and burn itself to death so what i did is that i we ran the we ran the um this fuel injection to place the webbers and you know they made as much powers as the webers did and i said you know i said i'll tell you what you guys did that competition and you ran it from you know 2500 to 6500 and you guys were trying to find out the most average power i said i'll guarantee you that right now i can beat your score he said okay let's do it and so i took the fuel injection that we had on there and then i just started adding stack length i just took pieces of tubing and taped the radius entry that we had that was on top of these weber looking things and then stuck the tube down in and we taped those on [Music] and as we started adding stack length he was having to adjust the knob because it was making a lot more torque because everybody with these volkswagens runs these short runner manifolds with the biggest webber that they can have on it and then they run these giant openings in the in the upper part of the manifold and then it next down to a tiny little hole that's in the port of the head and none of them well they work but they don't work as well as when i added like six or eight inches of stack length to the volkswagen he's like whoa whoa what's going on i said well we just added like 15 or 20 foot pounds of torque which is a lot was probably a 10 gain on that motor and i said so you should have had me a guy that knows nothing about volkswagen says never this is the first time i've ever run one you should have had me come with you to your test and i would have been able to add you like 20 or 30 foot pounds of torque it had been much better he's like oh yeah that works really good how about comparing 185 cc and cnc ports versus 195 as cast that would be a good test but i and look at the test that i did on the 175 the 190 the 210 and the 225 and you can kind of get your answer there uh david i remember when you could rebuild the volkswagen for 400 so i also remember when guys used to go out to glamis and throw the magnesium case transmissions in the fire and then they burned so bright that you could actually see them from space uh stewart he has a 5 foot navigator with adapters to run the coyote intake the coyote intakes are really good are you using the early coyote are you using the late one are you using a cobra jet it depends on which one you're using i've tested the canfield heads the cantile helds are up but take a look at the video that i did on all the foreheads the canfields are there i don't know which ones they were though yeah jody those bugs are fast on the um i i've seen a couple of turbo bugs that um the thing is that they the 60 foot like there's nothing i mean they take off they launch really hard and so it's hard to run them down after they get four or five lengths on you on the dig yeah right he he was really impressed with 15 to 20 foot pounds of extra and it gained it through the whole rpm range basically um we we ended up trading a little bit at 6 500 but the average numbers were up so far that he would have just killed everybody in the test because nobody runs like runner length in those things uh jeff the godzilla motors are awesome i i like the stuff that evan's doing or brian's doing they're making lots of power there you know it's a big motor and if you get good flowing heads and camshaft and an intake manifold those are good things a dug of 455 holes with smog air heads pouring will help those because there's not a lot there but a set of edelbrock heads will help even more yeah tim they did just didn't really understand that the port opening in the head's about this big and then the opening that they wanted to put in the intake manifold because you got to put a 60 millimeter 58 millimeter webber off there i'm like you guys have no idea that one port in the weber flows enough to feed all of the motor and they just couldn't come to grips with that uh durham the that 202 torque cam can make lots and lots of power so any camshaft that you put in there that thing is going to be 30 or 40 above a stock cam and we can make 700 with a stock cam i'm sure that if we really really pushed it we could make a thousand horsepower with that little 202 cam so you're fine with what you're doing uh gerald if you all you want to make is 400 to 400 to 450 horsepower any any heads cam intake and a blower on a 302 is going to easily do that acceptable piston ring gap for a boosted ls not big power but maybe for 14 do you know that you you say that 14 pounds is not much power but if you put 14 pounds on a 500 horsepower motor that's a thousand horsepower so it can be a lot depending on what you're starting with so 14 pounds can be a big big number on a on a cammed ls uh and and bat dog you do not need back pressure on a turbo that's the last thing that you want you want zero back pressure on there you want as free flowing and exhaust as you can put after the turbo as you can don't listen to anybody that's telling you that you need back pressure that's just dumb ict car guy 316 i don't know what an 873 head is do you mean an 823 head because i know what that is is an 873 an iron ls head that might be because i've only ever seen one set of those in the flesh [Music] durham so you put 24 gap in that should work right up until it doesn't actually 24 probably get you a long ways i i when i put 28 to 30 in it that's probably overkill uh manual if the back two cylinders are bad um did you check did you also check leak down see if you've got cross flow between the two cylinders and that will tell you if you've blown a head gasket there or if you're broken both of the ring lands yeah tim it's uh a stock 6 liter is over 700 with 14 pounds i know that we on the engine i know a stock 400 makes it our stock 6 liter makes about 400 so it would be a pretty big number if you added 14 pounds of that even just a stock one especially if you had e85 i haven't done any muffler tests on at that power level 800 to 1000 horsepower i haven't done that that would be turbo stuff mostly or blower stuff uh i haven't run dan i haven't run aftermarket knock sensors we've tried a few systems and when we've tried them they always hear something and they always hear something when there's not something there we know because we run them on n a motors with enough octane and they're still hearing something so in my opinion it takes a lot of effort to get the frequency matched on the knock sensor to actually hear detonation in the motor and not hear the other stuff to give you an idea the guys from roush were commissioned to do the um the lightning trucks i think it was the lightning trucks it was one of the supercharged applications for ford and what they tried for a long time and what they eventually did was just turn them off so that tells you how much effort it goes into actually making it here the right thing that it wants to hear and then once you do that once you know what to listen to and once your thing hears that then having it you know getting the the parameters right okay if you hear this take this much timing away if you hear it again take this much more and if you hear it again take all the timing away whatever those things are whatever the counter measures are that part of it's easy but getting it to actually hear the bad thing and then taking those countermeasures is always the hard part uh steve you must be late to the party we already went out for happy hour the dug the exhaust manifold should not go all the way through to the water jacket although i have drilled and tapped some on small block forwards that ended up doing exactly that because i had to do i had to redo the pattern for the headers that we had on the trick flow heads we had the offset pattern that i had to put on the forward and i just drilled all the way through into water and then we would bolt the bolt in there um you know it'd seep a little bit but not bad [Music] but joe we've already done over a thousand horsepower with a 351 that's not that hard um but a fluid dampener would be have been good on the motor that we did it on rather than stick welding the factory one that was not good but the the rotating assembly was already balanced from the factory that's why we get wrecking yard motors because all of that stuff is already done [Music] uh gillis i have not run e street heads on a 351 we ran a bunch of them the test was done long ago before a lot of the stuff was available so we ran um performer and performer rpm heads and victor junior heads because they had the three-tiered approach back then the edelbrock did and i haven't run the e street stuff yes thomas everyone's having a good night the performance bible i've written a few books it's not very lucrative oh way over a thousand joe okay the stock bottom end's probably not gonna get to 1600 on a 351 windsor i don't think uh rhiannon uh have you ever done any testing with the five liter with victor junior heads we've run on victor junior heads a lot especially way back in the day and keeping it real i haven't run toyota or nissan v8s on the engine dyno because we don't have a way to hook them up doug what's up what doug no question come on i i can't guarantee that you'll get like a really good answer but you'll get some kind of answer joe wants to try the non-ho cam firing or so you think it's the cam firing order that's limiting the strength of the short block all right doug but you let me know if you guys come up with another one we're good here james is in the house durham wants some some three point eight pistons and the six three hundred lanai rods simple mods any major power gains on sequential versus batch i've run that test before and at wide open throttle we don't see a lot the i was hoping when we did that test because the test that i did is not just sequential versus batch we then went in and dialed in the individual air fuel ratios of each cylinder because we had 802s to find out if the lean and rich cylinders that we were adjusting actually changed the power and it didn't really change the power very much but if one of them is 14 to 1 even if it doesn't change the power when you make it 13 to 1 or 12 8 or whatever number you want on your n a motor it will stop that motor from breaking which is very even more important than making extra power uh durham shirts are shirts are on the to-do list for march uh hells wants to know is a mother thumper cam a good cam it is if that's the thing that you want it to do if you want to have that sound those cams actually make reasonable power too because they got a big they got a big split and a tight lsa which helps the thing make power um but in my opinion those and i've talked to the guys at comp about this that those cams were actually just made to get the three-quarter race kind of sound that lots and lots and lots of people like i'm like you really guys you made cams so that you could so guys could have the like idle clip and they're like have you seen how many idol clips are out there on youtube i'm like yeah that's that's actually that's actually real that's actually right i i should have noticed that kevin needs to find an a555 transaxle for my 84 laser xe nice 2.2 in the house which i went down a rabbit hole today i spent some time looking at all the 2.2 and 2.5 stuff and you know i just get more and more excited about that and left the guy a message about the one that i would like to get and hopefully all that comes to pass the other thing i looked at is found the bell housing that would allow me to mount a 2.2 on the engine dyno because a lot of the testing that i want to do doing it in the car because of accessibility and what it's going to take to swap intake manifolds and swap turbos and stuff because you know they couldn't have put the turbo like flip the motor around so the turbo's in front where god nature intended it so that we could do easy swaps that would be really nice that the intake manifold is there because we're not going to change the exhaust very much it obviously also should should have a cross-full head because that would make life much easier but if we had the the accessibility to change the intake manifold the turbine all that stuff that would be nice but doing it on the engine dyno will make life a lot easier so durham you have a 3.8 porch piston lanai rods and the btr 202 cam and a huge van yeah so you need lots of displacement on that thing uh jr78 i did talk to tom about the 292 and he did indicate that there was going to be a um that i would be able to feel the uh the resonance or the frequency of that motor when we read it and i could do it and i could feel it already we could feel it in the stick and we could feel it in the room that um and i don't know if that's meaning that it gets to an unhappy place because obviously guys are running six cylinders a lot higher than that but he did tell me that that was going to happen and that i would be able to feel that so i don't know if we can adjust that with a different dampener or different pistons or rods or that kind of thing but we'll have to see gt40 versus gt40p if they're both iron heads i would pick the gt40 only because i like uh being able to bolt on the um the header or exhaust manifold and not having to worry about the gt40p head kind of had problems with burning plug wires and stuff so i like the gt40 head better building a 289 ford with the 671 stainless steel valves i would definitely put i would upgrade the valves i'm hoping hoping that you have good heads going on that and you're not using stock heads the stewart wants a big bang on the mini engine the unbreakable lump yes the gt40 has better header options than than the p head the p head has no advantage over the regular gt40 and the gt40 is just like a regular head so you can bolt on all the headers and stuff rhiannon do you think a five liter with victor junior heads and a cam 286 294 542 563 a 112 400 horsepower you're going to be getting close depending on what you did with other stuff a torque or manifold is not ideal victor junior would be better i and and a i did a test on all the manifolds of performer and rpm air gap i think the torquer and the victor jr and the victor jr made the most peak power the rpm air gap is by far the best choice for that combination because it makes the most average power it loses a little bit out at the top i think 400 is going to be kind of tough for that unless you have compression yeah ups mech just run the 292 through that just and just rev through it uh the osman why doesn't lift create more horsepower compared to a can with the same duration lift can add power it just doesn't add it the way that duration does when you step up duration typically you should think about that as adding uh more rpm potential so the if you change the duration you're really going to change where the motor wants to make peak power as opposed to adding lift like if you add lift to a stock cam you're not going to dramatically change where the thing makes peak power it might it might make more but the shape of the curve is going to be very similar but if you had 20 degrees of duration even if you kept the lift the same it's definitely going to change where the thing makes power would a 235 solid lifter motor stay away from the residence at rpm better i i don't i don't think the resonance is a camshaft thing i think i think that it's um i think that that's the bottom end and not the top end simple mods what small rare cars i really like bmw isetas i've said over and over again that i really like the nash metropolitans i really like and i was talking to my wife about this on date night how much i like these little hatchbacks i like the little hot hatches i like the um the fx16 i like the dodge omni i like this red turbo i like the volkswagen rabbit stuff i like all of those little hatchbacks the the mazda 323 gtx has a is is like really super cool it's very very expensive for what it is because there's a lot of other options that do what that card does and do it better and make more power and stuff but that's still really cool yeah ups i it's the bottom end of that six cylinder that's doing that because we notice that on other motors as well well ryan then the if the turquoise free then it's priced right and it's going to make the power that you want because it's free right ict car guy i don't think lisa is the lucky one i think that that's me [Music] uh joe i've never run anything on nitro methane that i think that they have at west tech but i've never done it yeah kevin i i don't i actually don't want a turbo 3 engine uh i know the guy has one for sale but that's not i mean it's really cool and and it obviously made good power but i don't like the um the problems that they had with the heads um i think that they had i think that they put iron inserts in the aluminum head and then they they uh they did a recall on those and replaced those i think with aluminum is the story that i got and maybe that fixes them and that's that thing made good power you know obviously stock but i want to do the the turbo one head so either turbo one 2.2 or a turbo one 2.5 either one of those are great i'd like to have the um the common block but i want to do all of the stock stuff and start from there and show people what actually happens when you here's what happens when we did a two and a half or three inch exhaust here's what happened when we turned the boost up here's what happened when we swapped the intake manifold um lots of guys from back then are saying that you only want to run this one specific cam i think it was i think was the biggest a a cam here's this is the one that you want i noticed that several of these cams are reverse pattern cams which i i don't think that i would run or that i would at least want to try something else um we know that porting the head and putting more cam timing in it like putting a 210 or 215 or 220 degree at 50 camshaft is going to help power it just they just do and then putting the right runner length i'm probably going to have to build my own intake manifold for those but we want to try some of the factory ones the air-to-air intercooler on the t2 motors is not going to be ideal it helps obviously much better than having nothing but i'm going to run an air to water and we're going to get it really cold we're running 85 well i just i'm really excited about doing all this cool stuff uh one of the worst mess i didn't make the worst mess at um uh at west tech i make a mess whenever i go because i am testing so many things so it's just like cylinder heads and headers and intakes and stuff is everywhere but when i blew up a couple of the big bang motors there was oil everywhere we caught one of the small blocks on fire when we were doing um the wheel of death stuff but mahogany i think saw the front half of his motor off because he broke a rod or something and it just ended up like cutting its way through most of the motor so that was pretty messy uh daniel just got a 1966 289 best best initial bang for the buck you're gonna board 20 aluminum heads the best heads there's i think that there are lots of cheap ones out there that you can get um somebody was telling me about the i can't remember chad's in the house what's up uh chad how much more power will 400 make the 396 it'll just make four more um skip white i think as a guy was talking about on the 289 but there's lots of good heads if you want to get a brand name head get an airflow research or trick flow those kinds of things brodex there's lots of good heads for those look at the head video that i did and you guys could see all this chad yes mahovets does win because he makes lots and lots of power and like when i break something like we broke the big bang motor we just broke like you know part of the pan you could see kind of the rod sticking out of the pan or whatever and you know chad but we didn't cut the motor in half i mean we were we weren't that cool uh tyler we're gonna run the some kind of n a motor when we put the turbo on it i'm going to run the turbo through the blower first and then we're going to put let's see what yeah i know chad what you didn't you say you didn't make the biggest mess i'm just trying to be nice um we're going to run one of the n a intakes either the plastic one or the the other one i'm looking at the aluminum one from the f-body uh doug i haven't pushed uh past the 1540 horsepower that we did at the stock bottom end on that six liter chad hopefully you guys are warm out there warming up over in in texas um hopefully all that cold weather is behind you and i hope the sprint is still or the the sprint i wish i had a sprint the vx is still working good i hope you have a turbo on it and i also hope that you have an msd on there to improve the mileage even more if you're making the same n a power and torque with two engines of different displacements will they make the same gains when boosted yes but it would be really really hard to make the same n a power and torque from two different displacements the different displacements are almost by design gonna make different power and certainly different torque somewhere in the rpm range yeah nitro the the ll-67 stock blower intake manifold is not good it's not it doesn't have any runner length at all so it's not going to make any power which could help us for doing a big bang because we want the power to happen at the top of the rpm range and get rid of all that pesky torque which is exactly what that short runner intake would do how much boost can a plastic intake make i don't know we've run 27 or 28 pounds with them so 66 in southern ontario nice no one could touch this turbo 351 fox body on the street uh chad you should be able to put um either chrome or honda on there i'm hoping that some i don't know if honda is gonna have anything for the vx but the chrome guys should and there's other um programmable setups that you can use the factory ecu on and hopefully the like i know that when we were doing the chrome stuff because ernie was doing that you might want to talk to ernie also he might know um so that you can write i know that you're not ever going to run a ton of boosts on that thing but if you put a little you know t25 or t22 or you know even a g28 the big turbo on there um a disco potato or something you could you know you're only looking to make like 170 or 180 horsepower probably with that thing but it would be super cool to put the msd on there and have that work and get rid of it you can feel the misfire when you're driving on it because when you're trying to drive a lean burn it's hard for something that's running at 19 to 1 to have complete ignition you know have to have zero misfire when the thing's running it's really difficult uh philip camera combination of 393 for a cobra kit car adventure 393 put in cobra kit cars before with 393's and 408 drive really really nice and they're you know i mean that car is already fast it's just not going to make a lot of power on the big end if you want that it's going to do better than an f-cam but something if you want something to you know really get going something like icam that 236 248 cam is really good have you done any testing of the 305 and vortech heads yes we've run thrives what's a good street distributor we run msd stuff but you can run factory stuff as well what ecm is best actually there's lots of good ecms we run holley hp or dominator i've not run terminator but i'm sure it does the same thing everybody wants me to do an efi shootout but actually if it provides the right air fuel and provides the right timing it's going to make the right power and almost all the ecu's will do that maine is in the house could you please run out the door and come back mdo 2.99 the obd2 stuff is tunable because we ran obd2 stuff with the hondata so we know that that will work i don't know about the chrome stuff um his is a that civic is a 94. i know the odds man they got it they got to pony up the donations so we had date night tonight man that was expensive but at least at the very least definitely hit the like button yeah the terminator stuff works really good matt's over at sloppy's been doing a lot of good stuff with the terminators that that that system works i just haven't ever used it we you know it's so simple for me to just put on the same thing every time and we know that it works i've got lots of programs to choose from i go okay it has about this injector in it and it's a one bar two bar three bar whatever it is and we put that on there and when when we call up i just push the button and it starts and runs and from there then it's just wants more fuel or wants less fuel and then we start playing with the timing and all that's fairly easy so i because we have limited amount of diner time available and we're you know you you want to do everything that you can while you have that dyno time available so we want to make sure that we do as much testing on there as we can so we want to get it to start up and run and get to tuning and get the parts changing kentucky's in the house say hi to my boy brian tully out there i know jason what's up with that who's who's disliking yeah kentucky a dual snorkel air cleaner that's why i go to the wrecking yard because you can find cool stuff like that venezuela dude you win you're winning louisville is right at the road he's in bardstown [Music] but venezuela now venezuela has really cool stuff you guys probably have like um venezuela do you guys have uh anacondas down there because i i'm a snake guy and i think that would be awesome so if you have one and you find one just make sure that you take a picture and send it to me if you can only have one an engine nine or a chassis then i i prefer working on the engine dyno because the accessibility is much easier and i don't have to lean over the hood to take stuff apart because we would never think about doing a piston swap or a head swap or cam swap or any of these other things i mean we we've done it on a chassis dyno but it's a lot more work big snakes new zealand's in the house yeah yeah the terminator is just a lower cost version of that and it would do everything that i needed to do because all i needed to do was be able to go like this and okay yes more timing yes less timing or yes more fuel yes less fuel all of the other stuff i don't even really use uh trinity welcome to the channel i'm going to be doing some 429 stuff i have a 19 i don't have one but my friend mark sanchez has a 1970 429 he's a big t-bird guy and he loves these old t-birds and he got one of those motors and it's all stock and ready to run we're gonna run that and do some upgrades on that you should see my 3.8 forged pistons nice 6'3 rods a 6 300 rod are you doing a short stroke motor then are you doing a 4-8 deal tyler don't even worry about it andrew what's up man i get my rings at uh 0.238 that's really specific when you start going into like the fourth and fifth digit that's that's pretty specific that's way more specific than i got when i did the big bang stuff i just measured one have that the ring gap from the guys at total seal and so i just sit and then just just grind into the other ones and they're they're at least 30 i knew and they probably were more like 35 but we didn't care because we're trying to break the motor anyway so like that they all don't have to be exact uh andrew is an xc270 too big for the for the explorer no 270 is fine um i think you'll like the smaller one like the 264 better if it's a daily driver thing um but the 270 will make good power can i make 2500 horsepower for 8 000. um you're gonna have trouble doing that i mean you have enough getting enough turbo to do that not a problem at all um getting all the rest of the stuff to handle that that's a whole different [Music] thing for autos and and for not you're in love accounting i have to stop by and see you but the it depends on what you do chassis down is really good for a lot of stuff guys that do you know tuning or exhaust systems or those kinds of things that works out really good but for the things that i do where i have to change the whole top end of the motor or put camshafts in it go through 10 or 20 or 30 camshafts the engine that was the only way to do it i wouldn't do that on the chassis down i wouldn't do the like we you know i ran built four motors and tested 30 sets of cylinder heads you're not going to do that on a chassis dino good people good people yeah they must be pressing that like button more times six thousands yeah we do seven for really high boost stuff but six is good yeah philip the the canfield 192's we've run those they work good the an efi super victor um that's going to lose power down low and gain power at the top 10 to one's a good compression if you've got enough camshaft in it it should make good power uh joseph how much power do you want what turbo would you choose for a daily driver silverado has a 5.3 what about the transmission that's what i would be worried about not the power a gt45 would work good for up to 700 horsepower so if you want more than that s 475 7875 or the borg water guys i never i or the garrett guys i never give them any love and i need to go look at their stuff i just have never run much of their things they're just they're more expensive and so i don't i don't normally don't run those but i can recommend those too and the thing that i like about their stuff is they have really good um compressor maps on all that stuff so i'm going to do a video on compressor maps as well and show you why people don't pay much attention to compressor maps no tyler the trips to west texas i'm not free and i i and i'm going down there again probably on this probably this weekend or so is 7000 okay for a 302 it depends on the what kind of drive or what kind of valve train and stuff that you have but yeah the rest of the stuff will go there yeah durham it takes a while to gap the rings which is why we like using that that ring tool and luckily they gave it to the guys at west tech and i get to use it so all we have to do is set it up and oh here we want to take ten thousands off here and then the dial indicator says okay you've taken ten and it's really really close and when we're doing stuff for the big bang motors i don't care how close it is it's close enough uh i'll check out project blinky oh foreign you're doing a 318 turbo motor and a 226 lens a slant six turbo nice i've got to have a slant six in the back of my truck and that 347 that i'm bringing down with me that's cool i'll have to check it out i'm gonna put my thorn i'm gonna put my email address in there to send me over an email and i'll figure out where you guys are durham got them at 24 living on the edge not really you're fine thomas i'm going to give you some advice um when you make a statement um don't ever put prove me wrong kind of things that's that's not that doesn't work the the chassis dyno tells you something else that uh the engine dyno tells you something and then the chassis dyno tells you something and then the drag strip and driving they all tell you something and all of it's beneficial there isn't one thing that's better than all the other things uh jeremy i wish i had transmission recommendations the 4080e is kind of what people go to or just a turbo 400 that's built up if you want to not have the auto or the overdrive i would recommend having the overdrive if you're going to drive it um but you're going to have a 4060 is not going to last a long time with um a boosted ls uh stuart i'm in northern california and wessex is in southern california yeah durham i agree a little more gap is better than a little less gap have you ever maxed out a whipple 2.9 i don't think i don't think i've ever put one on that's where we were trying to get the maximum amount a 2.9 is not going to feed a lot but um you know you're you should be able to get into four digits stuff orlando the symptoms of too big of a cam are poor drivability parietal um poor low speed power lulu what's up oh okay cool the project binky is a from has the drivetrain from the celica alltrack which is another really cool car the guy west tech has one and i like those and again they're really really expensive for what they do because uh an eclipse or those all-wheel drive diamond star cars do everything that toyota does they just do it for a lot less money and there's a lot more parts available for them but for some reason that all track is super cool texas in the house woodlands in the house uh joe i have some 2v cams if they're pretty big though uh brandon wants to accounts for altitude you should try to make as much power as you can um and and i wouldn't pick cams differently for altitude though unless i was building a dedicated drag race motor then i would put more camshaft in it than you would if you're running at sea level but otherwise i would cam it to try to maximize torque production in the rpm range that you want to run in [Music] yeah philip i that as i recommended you should go up from the 274 with that the the car weighs nothing you have a 393 the 274 cam will drive around kind of almost like a stock one does um put something a little bigger in that like that like that xfi cam that i recommended or 282 uh something bigger than the 274. doug what's my favorite older guys mill well i have two of them in the back of my truck i have a 347 pontiac which i've never run and then i have the the slant 6 which i haven't ever run either if i put a 1200 horsepower on an engine dyno and then put it in a car with a turbo 350 built for 450 450 hertz pound chassis what's going to happen it's probably going to end the life of that transmission yeah simple mods i i like the mitsubishi starrians um i like i had one of those for a while and actually i ended up i think i ended up giving it away um i i like those especially the ones with the flares on them and stuff and the inner coolers i really like those the four wheel drive civics are very cool the wagons uh rickrack i've not i've not tested tunnel port heads i know jay biddle had a set on his trans am car but those are the only places those and back when that that ford power parts was open i remember seeing some there have you tested any of the l76 six liter engines with the rec port heads curious how the narrow board does with those rectangular projects compared to an ls3 um take a look at all of the ly6 stuff the six liter and that those those heads work very well on a six liter they make more power than any of the cathedral poor any of the factory cathedral port heads do um not more than a ported set of cathedral port heads do they respond to all the same cam times there's nothing special about that there's nothing different about that rectangular port head being on a 6 liter as opposed to a as opposed to the 6.2 liter they work very well [Music] the conquest yes starion yeah in the house uh robert you need to check the compression height on the piston because the rod length is going to be different than a 5 liter rod is an impulse turbo yep i had a mirage turbo also same thing as a colt yeah i like the mgs and the tramps um the one that i really like is the bug-eyed sprite with a rotary in it that was always kind of a cool deal yeah uh stroke 351 windsor with the airflow reachers 205 heads a 232 240 that's what i hope it was more than 500 lift it needs to be more than 500 left 11 to 1 and it would run good that's a that's a good size motor yeah thomas the the making the power anymore especially with turbo ls stuff and really all the things making the power is easy but if you make a thousand horsepower you have to have a thousand horsepower fuel system a thousand horsepower cooling system and a thousand horsepower transmission and drive shaft and rear end and brakes and chassis and driving ability and if you don't have any of those things it can be problematic oh hell giant 302 boss heads i've run the boss 302 hits i've run the boss 302 motor and it worked very well take a look at i have those videos up i have the boss 302 and the boss 351 we built reproductions of both of those and they were good that's a good head it flows 275 cfm so it's better than any factory windsor head by far okay i got to get going guys thank you for sharing date night i'm glad you guys all came i will see you guys all tomorrow and everybody on super chat said help me out thank you very much i'll see you guys tomorrow night push

Channel: Richard Holdener

Views: 5,201

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Id: 1FagHv8iObs

Length: 70min 56sec (4256 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 11 2021