Let's Talk Live with Yu Tsai : Niki Nakayama, Chef

[Music] hello everyone this is you sigh welcome to let's talk and this week we are continuing our celebration Asian Pacific American heritage mother I'm so excited but you got to join me because Mike is entirely our Asian Americans doing their very best inspiring so many of us out there and today my guest renowned chef Nikki Nakayama owner of Michelin star restaurant here in Los Angeles I'm so proud to say in Los Angeles and NACA but thank you for joining me today Nikki thank you Wow where are you right now so everybody knows what's going on over there I am at home in the section of our house we call the office so like we have this point just sort of like dedicated to all things and not good paperwork you know you know things on the weekends so you are you are indeed about a mile away from your restaurant I read that you live very close to work you can just walk there yes yes I mean like I tried really exhausting so I just eat better well thank you thank you thank you for being here and what a what an amazing opportunity to talk to you I have admire your work in such a multiple levels as it as a human spirit and what you have done in your career that I've been watching and following from day one I would love you to share some of the stories with our listeners and viewers out there that how did you break all those boundaries have become a Michelin star restaurant owner and and then renowned chef so let's start with with being a woman in this industry we know that is such a male-dominated industry being a chef how was I like when you decided that you want to get into the industry I think initially and really thought too much about it that it was there was and or anything like that and like maybe it was I felt it more when I had my own fresh pot because I you know when you work for other people I was lucky enough that were very supportive um especially the chef that I worked with in Brentwood Akali is a very sort of guy and he's always open to teaching and always open to just sort of like allowing me to ask questions it was when I opened my own restaurant that I felt that it was I was having a very hard time having people taking me seriously and I thought this is this is the one before and not go this is not the sushi restaurant I had on Melrose Avenue and I just I felt that it was very hard to gain an audience that that understand if they had such high regard for sushi they didn't necessarily think that we were gonna be that type of restaurant that could please them and uh and I have read that when you were in Japan and you have travel to really study the art and you sue Chien and predominantly while almost 99.99% of sushi chef in Japan are men and when you were in those places in time trying to learn people didn't take you very seriously they actually said that you were just playing chef we weren't really actually gonna become wonder huh what was that like you know me as an Asian the natural instinct is just a smile and agree and nod but of course in word that's not true because I think it really used its I use that as fuel to sort of push myself a bit more than sometimes when people tell you you can't do things it actually serves better than when people tell you you can do the reading because it's when people tell you you can't do things it sort of gives you a different drive to really really want to try harder just to prove it to yourself and not and I heard this from you before there's a phrase called Kyoshi in Japanese see this is really hard because clear she is not associated with a specific thing that I'm talking about it's a feeling and it's like trying to explain it to people that it's tired to prove somebody prompt but it's the feeling you have when somebody puts you down or I say your favorite team loses and you feel this play ah I can't believe we lost you know that feeling is called phe and it's like this feeling of whether it's true or not it's not fair it's this feeling of like I didn't want to lose that kind of feeling it's the feeling of not wanting to take defeat as the answer I feel like I feel like that's something that is really in a court of agent culture don't you feel that it's something that oh I can't hear you what am I saying I'm sorry but I was just saying like you holding it in the pit of your stomach then burns and you just want to like do something about it well it's incredible because you took that to Corp was sure and then you conquer it all but but it must be it must have been difficult not just being a woman but being Asian in United States and in Los Angeles all places where food culture ten years ago was not respected at all in fact we know but ten years Michelin did not honor any stars were ten years and then birth of anaka broke that mold I feel like on some level I do have to say that being in LA specifically has been the most helpful in terms of my career because I don't think that we could have ever built a restaurant like an naka in Japan I think because la is filled with people that are so open I mean the people that live here and then they're exposed to so many different cultures and for the most part people are just very welcoming of diversity so to open a restaurant like and naka and to get the kind of support that I have I think I've had one foot in the door already just being in LA all right well yes it seems like so now I look back at it the success that we get to see out there now and all these amazing write-ups but I had this question burning question when I got to to yesterday and I was thinking about what what is something that I really want to understand that is I feel like in the food critic role that it seems to me that Asian food doesn't become popular or doesn't become elevated and how a white Caucasian person reviews the work or gets in the kitchen and cook it but yet when the women Asian women or a German Shepherd that same exact dish or meal it doesn't get respected do you feel that there are some cuisines where that is really really prevalent and I'm I think that for Japanese food because it's such a very refined technical style of cooking in terms of like because Japanese people obsess over every little detail of what that means right I mean the cuts have to be perfect the the style of everything that's done I think the level of respect that Japanese food does get is fortunately or unfortunately a little bit higher than other cuisines just because of the technical precision that is required or has it's probably more of a perception I do notice that when non Asian people cook Asian food there you know celebrated a lot and it's I think it's because sort of a way of wanting to welcome different cultures into the cuisine and I am for that my only thing is I really really hope that the people who are who didn't necessarily grow up with this cuisine really really take time to understand and learn it from a very deep level versus spending six months in the country wanting to master a cuisine I think realistically I think humility goes a long way when you're trying to understand another cook so if you allow yourself that space to be open and are open to seeing yourself less than what you're learning it allows to absorb more and to fully develop a certain amount of respect for it my hope that anyone who's doing another cosy takes the time to truly learn it in very months but to spend years and years understanding and really appreciating why the culture does what they do with that good well we know that you have studied the art up and not cooking for for many many years given our listeners and viewers a little bit of a taste of understanding what modern psyche is ok so generally is the most formal way of dining in Japanese cuisine that it's a multiple course dinner and it's laid out by the different cooking methods and techniques and the goal is really honor the regent and also to sort of pick the best method of cooking to really highlight that angry so that's what high Seki is the philosophy is rooted in and of course it's about showing your locality all the things that are closest to you sort of highlighting the area that you're at so with our cake when we call it modern facing key we also introduce not just traditional cooking methods we're also introducing new methods that have come along the way that also really serves to enhance food and also there's an enhanced ingredients because the traditional way is wonderful but there are all these new methods that have been introduced that also really do a great job of highlighting and being sue and we want to be open to that and then we we also add the element of California to it because there's so many wonderful things that come out of California that where we should use to really showcase how amazing California the land is the food that comes out things that are being produced from it on so called modern kaiseki in LA all those things and when that term when you coined that term did you find resistance in the Chi Saki world cuisine I think my feeling at the moment was um I have I really believe in what I'm thinking and what I'm doing and I really have to not be persuaded by fear or not to let fear get to me and not move forward with this thought that I have got it's not I do it because I respect it so much and I feel that if people are able to overcome the idea of what I'm trying to do in actually means what we're doing like real physical experience of it then they would understand more and up until then I'd been cooking for so many years already like over 12 years over 13 years and I was like you know I spent so many hours in the kitchen like all these things and they deserve to like create food or put food out there that is really really that comes from my heart that I really believe in oh it was kind of go for it just do it I love that word you use deserve because it's so so so ingrained in our ancient culture that and telling you feel like you deserve something you don't do it or you don't earn it and I know you came from a really traditional family and your brothers in the business and and your family was in the fish market business and with all that around you when you wanted to open a restaurant I know there were bitter resistance but at the same time they support you that's what's funny thing about Asian culture right you shouldn't do that but here's what we can do to help you but if you fail don't cry coming home right so I think that's true among all Asian culture Thanks and and when Anaka opened when you begin to proceed in this fashion how what was the reaction from your family I think um the reduction from my family was really positive because they know they knew that I've been in the restaurant so long and then I finally came to this place and I was feel so lucky because my sister it has always been so supportive of the work that I do she's like my biggest fan initiate things for me the rest of the family just to me sure that everything's like on the right in the right place for me and I feel fortunate because I think up until that point I really earned their respect in the work that I was doing and what I wanted well you said Anika was a slow-growth it took a little time for people to understood and learn and you had to in your way educate people about this eating process and and and finally had a breakthrough moment I feel like um yes inato is definitely a slow-growth because there are days when we open and we only have two customers and for me I was kind of like um I was okay I was I I was like you know I'm gonna if I'm gonna serve two customers fine I'm just gonna give these two people of the best experience of their lives and then hopefully that'll translate in move forward from there but what it's funny you said that you open you have two customers just so everybody out there listening don't even try to think that's gonna be only because I'm in a restaurant I personally have gone line and try to get reservations and the days of only two customers it is packed and experienced it's incredible I personally have yet had the experience that a lot of my friends have visited and and I I I would love for you to share a little bit about that experience it is a coarse meal it is a sick horse and I know the special thing about this course is that everybody gets their own because you actually record every dishes that you make for every customers and when they come back they don't repeat what they had before yes so one of our goals is um initially we try not to repeat but now we're our thing is we don't repeat the menu so because it gives a little piece look we have people sitting us every two or three minutes and then it takes a long time to develop a whole menu and then to put out all these things about it is is a little it takes a lot more research and time especially nowadays when we're adding so many more details and so many levels to every dish but yes it's of course menu it's 13 courses people generally three hours but I think 13 courses that timeframe it goes by really quickly I think I think the main goal is we because our space is so small we spend a lot of effort and we concentrate on right in front of you so you'll notice a lot of dishware or pottery or ceramics or little things that we did with it with the service pieces that are really unique and that's quite an enjoyment too and I think the whole purpose of these long meals is you know you've had a stressful day or whatever things are happening outside it in life it's there but hopefully when you come into our restaurant you have a little reprieve from all that you you sort of like taking the moment just to appreciate something that's that our team is putting together just to sort of bring you back to this moment of you know life is crazy but there's always good things and hopefully you can experience that when you eat what my luck it definitely is a journey because you are going from one dish to another and the progression and I it's it's incredible to see because I watch a lot of footage of your cooking and how you're putting together the videos and presentation and it's it really truly is a form of art and I know that there's a lot of comparison in American culture about sushi versus your style working I love for you to educate people that what's the main difference between the two so sushi in it myself is one one type of food so with and naca it's multiple kinds of cooking methods and suit you would fall into just one category um a lot of people miss mistakenly mix-ups omakase and Caixa key because omeka say is just leaving it up to the show omakase literally means up to you so in a chef put together know Marcus a phrase you know he may be drawing on keisuke traditions of the format's of how things are served or he just probably is serving you different things with he he or she thinks is good for the game so this hi go ahead how did you say like sushi Oh Marcus is just basically a bunch of a different kinds of sushi put together that monsters serving that day for fishing so for you the process of creating a menu for the day or for the patient that comes in and you really do have to draw on the resources of what's precious ingredient that's possible and then create from those fresh ingredients so so if I have happened to come in in March and then come back in November I'm gonna experience a complete different journey yes for sure because we definitely want to highlight what the feeling is for the season and a lot of times you know when I'm outside or walking the dogs like that yeah I can't help it absorb the overall feeling in my environment of the outside and there's a special feeling to wanna bring that inside to you to dine eggs so come autumn they're following leaves everywhere so you'll probably see that reflected on the dish where like there's leaves and the colors of gold and red versus just like you know maybe what your colors are gonna be darker or you know it's gonna be dark and white so things like that but I'm just a reminder that there are seasons out there that we can see what each plate is like a new canvas every single time for you I feel like you're creating art and I when I get to watch you work and when I see those little details of gold flakes or with just a flick of your that the soy sauce that splashes on the corner of the plate to me they truly are of fine art and there they are there's almost too beautiful to eat how do you put together a meal that is so beautiful but yes still stay unpretentious because I no Kiseki is about not being pretentious with the food so that fine line how do you balance that I think we always stick to the idea that number one rule is deliciousness like if I don't think it's delicious if it's good no matter what we do it it's not gonna work so first and foremost deliciousness and then everything can sort of just be an accent like the plating is always the afterthought of deliciousness well I love that it's incredible and I know the carro is a big up in Makkah and and let's talk about that a little bit she came into the restaurant around two years after you opened is that right and tell me a little bit about that journey I know that you guys are partners and you work together that in itself is accomplishment you deserve a mission and start with just on that alone we had just gotten to know one another when and she actually did it out of the kindness of her heart to help me because I had lost one of our sous chefs and really I was kind of like I don't know if we could work together because I know my work style may scare a lot of people because I like all over the place you know like um I'm not really good at talking and moving my hands at the same time sometimes like I just it's all in my head and then it's just like as manian devil has discounted and like made of everything back to me and um but what was great I mean that when Carol came in she had the ability to sort of like maintain like sort of like you know allow me the space to be a Tasmanian Devil and you know swirl through the kitchen while she sort of you know it helps the calm afterwards and I think it's been very helpful for the team and we work well together in that we work on very different dishes so there are things that she works on there are things that I work on and then she'll ask me what I think about hot like in order to but I'll give her ideas of what I think would work and then she'll work on them and then we work on it together so there's a lot of freedom for her and it's not an over over opposing voice from me all the time about like no you had to do it this way too seriously it was like open Congress eat how did how do you balance that the struggle of no Araya tea that you are being put into squalor a lot and not cuz you guys kind of in this together how is the ego get put aside and just be able to create beautiful food that's that's fascinating to me because in at least in the fashion business in the world I mean competition is so important you know everybody wants to be the best and again that's all that's all Trey because it agent American we want to be the only Asian that's in the market only agent on TV our only only only how does that work in this dynamic relationship that you have luckily very self-aware and I have no problem starting any kind of like you know like putting her in the spotlight it's very because I understand that we're very we work very well together and I feel like people should know that it's that she part of the effort that makes enough of what it is and I'm always happy to support it it makes me happy money so I don't feel like I don't feel threatened by it at all and he's very supportive she knows that and not that is like a big piece of mind that I wanted to put together I think there's an equal amount of respect for what we're both doing and we've each other succeed well respect let's talk about respect let's talk about the fact that when you open a NACA you actually cooked behind I showed you screen for a while because people did not accept the fact that were the women in the kitchen and when they taste the food they still cannot wrap her head around it and there's always excuses what was that like for you and how were you able to to put up with it number one and to able to close out showed you screen and still cook from your heart and feed people because I would be like you don't get my food get out I think actually I do like cooking be high in the screen because there's so much focus and attention and like things that we need era um sometimes when it's back in the old kitchen when there was open it's very easily to get easy to get distracted because we there's a part of us that wants to keep entertaining the guests while working and that gets a little bit hard with the amount of details that were doing it and NACA so actually I and I kind of think at the end of the day no matter what happens the work should always speak for itself like who cares who's making what what like if the work is solid good I think people will embrace it and be open to it like you can't deny when you put something in your mouth whether you like it or you don't or you know like the whole experience of something whether you like it or you don't and at the end of the day when people are convinced that they've enjoyed it it doesn't matter that the person coming out is a memorable are you still cooking behind a chilled your screen now oh yeah of course not because you don't want to show ourselves but because the kitchen is so crazy and hectic is ruin the whole vibe well interesting because when I first heard this story it reminded me of this story about Empress emperor in China about 3,000 years ago don't quote me the historians out there improves our only emperor ever was it female and when she came to power she actually killed her kids to get there because they were weak that she didn't want her kids to be to be Emperor but when she got there and begin to send these to the Emperor at the time to rule everybody respected her funny enough only behind a bamboo screen she can only rule side-by-side with Emperor and bison behind his ship we kind of screen and I when I heard your story I historical image came to me that how powerful and how amazing and the things that you're doing the art that you creating yet you still had to do it behind the screen but in the beginning I felt like it was because you're women and people didn't respect you and I understand now you make that choice that's your choice that you want to work back there but when I ever get a chance to come to eat there I hope I get to see you working in the kitchen as you prepare the meals I think that process is so beautiful it's like watch an artist work you know paint and and and so many things you have done in in your career path and is still going has been so inspiration to so many people and I read a story about how you and your family are so traditional but yet your mom walking down the aisle at your wedding I it draws so much emotion for me that I can actually cry and with joy because in our culture assets and does everything and deserving is everything tell me about that moment it was like to have that whole 360 emotion with your mom it was really wonderful I mean what our wedding mom actually walked me down the aisle and it was really fun to I mean when I think about it it always makes me a little bit emotional cause I remember telling my mom so friendship ye and we should cut out and then my mom just sort of say you're getting married you know like it was like wet that's it after all these years like after all these years when I've been so worried and had such a hard time trying to figure out what to say to you she was very accepting and it was sort of like the most it felt like this heaviness from my heart had just lifted and it was just this wonderful feeling and then to have her walk me down the aisle in Hawaii it was really a very very special moment well it's it's no I am lucky enough when I was born they thought was weird to begin with and then everybody focus on me so whether always gate or not it was like oh he's gonna be weird she's gonna pick one of the weird if not the weird he's gonna pick oh well it still be it but my sister who was 10 years younger than me she went through that struggle with my mom and dad cuz she didn't know when was a lite-brite trying to come out and I remember having this conversation with my mom when my sister was only nine years old and I think it was actually over a fight and to win the fight I just said thank he's gonna be a lesbian that was only way I knew how to fight like you're gonna lose it's private and they didn't believe me of course you know I do and as she grew and and by the way she's a huge huge huge fan of your work and who you are as individual because she was actually when I give her all credit to make sure that I contacted you when let's talk again and she said you got to make sure you give asian-american a spotlight you have to have her on the show and learn from her as well so she I know she's watching and when she had to talk to my mom about the situation was very very very dramatic and and now years later I do so appreciate my mom has accepted her as who she is I said to me that's who I am as well but that that takes a while for the Asian community j'en family to do so I do have to say that it does help that she is officially dr. Tsai a PhD in biomedical science so she did accomplish that the balance of the other it does feel like that sometimes but but we're constantly chasing for that approval in our culture do you feel like in the work that you do now that you're still chasing for that now you have a woman your restaurant you you have broken so many boundaries and and and so many knows and now you are where you are today do you still find that still part of your DNA I feel like my DNA and forever be because I always have this thinking like a week any situation that we have for granted so everything that's led up to this point to give us a good pass has been wonderful but let's not forget there's still a lot of hard work ahead and to maintain and to continue and to grow requires a lot more dedication right and yeah I think it'll always feel it forever feel like a challenge which I like and then someday when I feel like I don't want to be challenged anymore I will well let's hope is not anytime soon because my name is Joe and I long lists of reservations that's make sure that's taken care of well I want to talk a little bit about what's happening out in our in our world environment and how Anaka is pivoting through this time how are you guys handling this is the pandemic well are we switch to take out method and we've been focusing on bento and the greatest thing is I think what people may or may not be aware of is both Carol and I come from from takeout background so we when we had to switch it wasn't a very big deal for us it was like oh we wait what to do we you know we're comfortable with doing takeout we just have to find the right message and the right thing that sort of fit in line with what I'm not gonna is about but we've switched now to rental takeout and one of the things that we offered is a fair price one that's about 38 that's 38 dollars and it comes with sushi and I think the overall feeling was we wanted to create an experience that sort of speaks to more people than what and naka is about because I'm not is it's such a very particular and specialized dining experience that not everybody gets to enjoy it so we want it to be a lot more inclusive and sort of support the community in any way that we can well what awesome awesome time for anyone out there who wants a have Michelin star restaurant quality food for price money that is it's the deal of the century you guys so viewing the community around Los Angeles reef nature you support and NACA and in order because that's what we find out from from all the food industry people have been talking to here is like the only way to support the food industry it's eat their food order from them pee from them and and support them it and this pivoting is actually quite interesting to me I wonder that for this one's like you're a Michelin star restaurants like yours when we go back to the new normal will you carry some at this velocity with you of course of course I think we're trying to figure out how we can continue what we're doing now to sort deserve a bigger community or I think when we go back to being able to do service in-house in the way that we imagined it should be done there's gonna be a lot more room and space to work together and to find ways to support community even more Carolina I talked about how dinners that we are making can somehow if we can find a way to use utilize some of the sales to cook more things on the other side to feed more people that would be great so it's it's a lot to think about and a lot to really work through the details because ideas are great but the devils io is in the detail no I'm sure part of it as an artic of you as an artist and the chef and the artist that that you don't want to compromise your artistry where your work and what you have studied so long for and and and security for all these years and I I do I do find that very important but it's in time it's so amazing for all of us be able to own a little piece of Jackson Pollock sometimes you know that's that I feel like with this dynamic inclusion and an accessibility has been such a topic among all restaurant owners and I spoken to other chef as well it is understanding that the importance of just supportive community and sharing because it really is a trickle-down in fact while economy and and how we begin to talk to someone and and how do we see someone and inspire them you know I I think I don't know this is possible but even a simple online course how to plate you like you do we inspired so many of us who have homework our meal ease play a chef on TV not a real chef yeah I get to experience that with you because it's such an art form that that I I look at you like an architect with building a building and then you're building buildings that other people have never built before and each time each night you're building a new building and and then we get to eat it and it comes back all over again but it's never exactly the same that is exactly what's happening to our world right now there's never going to be exactly the same but along the way we can try to learn from it along the way we can keep on dreaming and keep on keep on waking up every day and go back to dreaming and waking up every day and be resilient okay currently I think our purpose is to always find the better side of this situation and so keep that in mind I know there are times when people are gonna feel down but at the end of the day you know if we can find the better the silver lining and everything they'll just keep us happy well I'll tell you one of the silver lining of this pandemic for me is that able to be able to talk to you because you would have been way too busy to talk anymore you're amazing at what you do but one things I want to leave with but everyone is in Asian culture that we have natural tendency to take our hands together we bout to people we take a tiny step back and that's how we we we nod and pay respect to people and one thing about your work it have such an incredible memory that goes in my brain when I saw you work on different interviews and TV shows is that you serve with the open heart and open palm rather than closed hand and move back and bow you really do present yourself at the open palm with your heart everything that you serve to the people at every desk at every table after every meal you go and pay them respect and gratitude that is that gives me to children that's incredible and that's something I I am appreciative and learning as well thank you thank you I'm so honored to be I'm inviting me well thank you so much and please stay strong and stay healthy out there and please keep on feeding us and next phone call you're gonna get me oriental box haven't had lunch yet so we're gonna take care of that well here's something I would love to do for you I love when this thing's over I'd love to come to you and you're your partner your wife that take a beautiful portrait of you guys together so you can have it for yourself but that would be my gift to you for your time with me and at the same time maybe enjoy a meal with you as well that would be amazing I would be honored thank you thank you so much for your time Wow I am so blessed and so fortunate to have today to speak to Mickey Nakayama who is a renowned chef have absolutely influenced so many people out there and her silent actions are louder than you can imagine working diligently and just per her head to the grind and just working so hard and winning two Michelin stars at her restaurant Mecca quietly but surely winning the race every step she goes I can't wait to see her next journey and I can't wait to photograph her and Carole together and most importantly I can't wait to experience her food and that they welcome everyone well in the meantime thank you for joining me again here and let's talk I'm so privileged to have this time with you and please join me again tomorrow have a good day [Music]

Channel: With Yu Tsai

Views: 9,301

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: photography, fashion, design, clothing, makeup, hair stylist, talk show, talkshow, instagram, instagram live, facebook

Id: FbE-kmVQeQ0

Length: 37min 52sec (2272 seconds)

Published: Tue May 26 2020