Let's Split The Party! | Running the Game

we were playing in my last indie campaign some of which you can watch on YouTube and the players had been given a map of the Underdark by the deep gnomes there were two tunnels to the left was the passageway to the city of the Glasspool which they knew was their destination to their right was a passageway that led to it said there was a lightning lizard down there and the gnomes explained that they had never been past lightning lizard it was too dangerous and that many adventuring parties just like the player characters had been down here looking for treasure and tried to fight it it tried and failed they tried and died this caused a real schism in the group bill sort of the leader of the party argued listen we have a quest we know we're supposed to go we have a map showing us how to get there why screw around EJ a newly minted Noble said but there is almost certainly going to be a lot of cool treasure down here more experience points which means will be higher level when we get to the city the glass pool and more likely to succeed and you might think of that as metagaming but it's not certainly their characters are aware of the fact that they are much better at being warlocks and eldritch knights now than they were when they set out from town they argued about this for about an hour it was a huge big conflict in the group and at the end of the night they had to agree to disagree I encouraged them I let them know listen we're all co-workers we all are gonna be here tomorrow anyway we'll be here for the rest of the week I can just get together with Phil's half of the party tomorrow night and EJ's half of the party the night after that and we can both play through your adventures until eventually you meet up again I the dungeon master was advocating in other words to split the party I think we better split up hey everybody matt goalball here if you are a D&D player and you go online it's not gonna be long before you see a message from somebody on twitter or on reddit or in chat saying don't split the party it's this common wisdom that has been passed down and it's become like a Shibboleth it's this thing we say to each other to reinforce the idea that we're all part of the same group we all know the same things we're all having the same conversation I say don't split the party to show off the fact that I know the common wisdom but I personally am deeply suspicious of common wisdom typically because it flies in the face of my own experience but like the admonition against playing evil characters on the premise that it can be disruptive and tear parties apart my reaction is not that that's not true but that it can be managed and that mature players can deal with it and it opens up a colossal amount of new options and fun the same thing is true for not splitting the party it is 100% true that splitting the party can turn into a kind of degenerate nightmare scenario but it doesn't have to and that's we're gonna talk about the reason I advocated for splitting the party was because I personally loved that experience of the party splitting up much like Lord of the Rings going and having their own adventures and then getting to meet up again and describe to each other what has happened anytime the players have to describe to the other players the experiences they've had in the campaign it seems much more real to me and I think to the players and of course I've been doing this for a long time I am Not Afraid of splitting the party true we all work together so it's pretty easy for us to get together on a subsequent night it's not a huge scheduling nightmare we're all already at work anyway and while this I know is unusual it is very similar to the way it was when we were teenagers and in college and could basically play whenever we wanted unfortunately or fortunately depending on your point of view they did not split the party having slept on it and thought about it when they came to work the next day many of them felt terrible about the idea of playing D&D without the others for them that was part of the fun so the half of the party that wanted to fight the Lightning lizard just gave up and said you know what bill you're right let's go to the city of the glasspoole the thing I really respected in phil and we may have to do a whole new episode on this because it's kind of the theme of the last two videos was Phil's commitment to dealing with the consequences of his actions he was willing to go down to the City of the glasspoole alone even though he knew it meant almost certainly he would die because he thought listen that's what my character would do I don't mind if my character dies in a situation like that I'll just roll up a new character he would have been unhappy to lose graves he liked graves but he would have been happy knowing graves died doing what the character would do and that reality that verisimilitude has value I think if all the players are mature and willing to deal with the repercussions of splitting the party then not only can it be realistic and this is what the characters would actually do it can be a lot of fun and my friend John's campaign this is about 25 years ago we were playing high level like 13th level mercenaries given a job to infiltrate an evil keep and rescue some person or some object within one of the players was playing a high-level master thief I looked at that player and said okay go get us a map of that place he did the rest of us did nothing that evening while we watched Craig infiltrate that keep making stealth roles assassinating those people who detected him and coming back with a map of keep where all the guards were and we're all traps where all the secret doors were and even though we split the party and I did basically nothing that night it was cool as hell it was very dramatic for us to sit and watch Craig because at any minute he could be caught and ultimately killed and there was nothing we could do he was so far ahead of the rest of us there was no way we could have helped him back drama that heightened drama that inability for us to help someone while they went off on their own added to the drama and the tension of the evening it was not boring for us to sit and watch Craig likewise in my friend Jim's campaign we spent an entire evening with me just negotiating with the king of the elves there was nothing really for the rest of the party to do we were physically separated but I was essentially playing my own game with Jim and the rest of the party just had nothing to do but sit and watch even though we hadn't split the party the effect was the same but because what was happening me role playing with the king of the elves was dramatic it was a memorable evening was something my friends and I talked about for years afterwards so whence comes this admonition against split in the party well the most direct and obvious reason people say that is because if you split the party you are having your effectiveness and the adventure does not know that you were planning on splitting the party the orcs in the next room are the orcs in the next room and if you only send half your party against them you are twice as likely to fail I think that's the primary reason people repeat this prayer over and over again don't split the party is they are afraid that by splitting the party everyone will fail they'll be catastrophic failure and characters will die that can't happen but like Bill in night below bill was okay with his character failing as long as he was being true to himself that I think is what separates mature players from new players is that mature players are willing to deal with the consequences of their actions they don't make every single decision based on the mechanically optimal thing to do they spend time thinking about the reality of the world and the reality of their character and they enjoy making decisions even if those decisions can result in failure that are true to that reality splitting the party in two does double your chances of failure but if you're in an adventure where for instance there's a time limit splitting the party can increase your chances of beating the clock splitting the party increases your chances of failure and that increases the amount of drama because now the characters have to survive and thrive with fewer teammates and that can be exciting but there's another reason players say don't split the party and that's because like the group I was describing at the beginning of this video people show up to the table because they want to play D&D with their friends and many of them will start to feel uncomfortable and unhappy at the very idea of splitting up and going their separate ways they will think to themselves well I could have stayed home and played a video game if I was gonna play a game by myself I think that again much like playing an evil character is an issue of trust they are not yet aware because they haven't done it that them watching the other group do something cool on their own and then switching back to them while they do something cool can be a lot of fun can be very dramatic but you can't really psychoanalyze your players and try to convince them that the thing that they don't want they really do want if the players feel weird and they're unhappy about the idea of splitting the party you have to respect that there's two basic ways to split the party there is the sort of advanced way that I described earlier where each group literally splits up and you play at different times of the week until you both meet again and result I think that is pretty rare there are in this day and age I don't think there are that many groups that can afford time wise to do that but if you can it's spectacular the other way and the way that requires a lot more engagement and patience on the part of the players is splitting the party while they're all at the table and the dungeon master at this is the tricky part having to spin these two plates and keep both groups happy and engaged while switching from one to the other I think this is basically impossible in combat I think there are some very simple combat scenarios in detecting traps and and discovering that there are enemies beyond the door I think those are the kinds of things you can do with a split party everyone at the same table but actually trying to run two different combat scenarios at the same time I've been doing this or I don't know since 1988 so they're you know 30 years I don't think I've ever done that I don't think I've ever even tried that so you as a dungeon master if the party wants to split up you have to be willing to say no if you don't have the capacity or the desire to actually physically break up into different groups that play different times you are suddenly you the dungeon master are suddenly now on the hook to run two entirely different combats at the same time that seems like a nightmare to me and at this point it's time to talk to the players about the social contract we've all entered into together and that is I have agreed and I am I am willing and excited to run D&D for you folks but there is a limit to my powers and running two groups at the same time I'm sorry there's no way for me to do that if you describe it that way I am sure your players will understand and try to work out a solution that doesn't require you going insane I think combat can be on the table as long as it's only an option or one of the two or more split groups in other words if one group is going to go down one part of the dungeon and maybe get in a fight but the other group wants to stay at rest I think this is perfectly reasonable and if both groups want to split up in town for instance and go all do different things not only is this reasonable I think it's desirable the trick to splitting the party in a narrative sense in town for instance where you don't have to worry about two entirely different combat encounters is the principle of rising action this is something that you learn if you watch a lot of TV for instance where there's often an a plot and a B plot it's up to you the dungeon master to make sure that as one group is experiencing something cool you pause the action and thereby keeping them in a state of what's gonna happen next while you then ramp up the next group you've got these two sine waves that are moving through your plot and this is not easy to do but over time as you do it more and more it will become second nature and this will give you incredible control over the pacing of your game as you cut between these two or more groups when you cut which moment you pick to leave one group you go to the next is not a science it is an art but I think the basic principle is you've given this group something to think about what that is it can be almost anything it can be for instance what's available in the shop for instance if the players are going shopping and you say this shop has any of this type of item in this type of price range you've given them some information and you can go to the other group and thereby let you've left them to sit there and do some shopping on their own while you play with this other group there is a kind of archetype of player and I think everyone is guilty of this to one extent or another but that is the I always want to be everywhere player in other words when they are off talking to the blacksmith about Armour and they hear that the players who've gone to the library to do research are having some dramatic moment the player at the blacksmith suddenly wants to be there they want to find a way to be in both places at once they don't want to miss anything but missing things and giving some players the chance to have their own experience and have their own knowledge and then get to communicate it to the rest of the players is to me again I've said this before one of the most fun parts of rolling one of the things I've done to great success is I've given the players a map of the town and it doesn't have to be a real map it's something you can just whip up on an eight nap by 11 piece of paper it just has some of the shops the libraries the churches they can go to written on them and then put this piece of paper on the table in front of the players and tell them put your mini where your character is because now now that you've got even this abstract version of the town or the city there many can't be in two places at once and that restricts the I want to be everywhere all the time impulse something to think about can also be giving them new information they didn't have before that's going to cause them to have a debate or you can ask the players some important question and then just say you folks think about how you're going to answer that just saying you folks think about how you're gonna answer that will let them know this is an important question how we answer is important it'll give them something to talk about as you cut to the next group again this isn't a science I can't lay it all out for you but I have had great success running a large group of players all running for you may get to see this in the new campaign coming up because it's almost all of it is gonna take place in a giant city and you may see me screw it up because it's been a while since I've run D&D but once that we're back in the swing of things ideally you will get to see how many times where we're cutting back and forth from one group to the other it's one of the reasons I want to stream my game is because I want you folks to see things fail because I think there's as much to learn from that as success and ideally there will also be some successes so give the players something to think about let them know this is your opportunity to think about how to answer this when you cut back and forth and that will keep all the plates at spinning that will keep all the players engaged also if something there you can tell you'll get a chance you'll be able to read the room if something very dramatic is happening to one group of players you can kind of sit on them for a while because the other players will be engaged just like I was and the rest of the party was watching my friend Craig infiltrate this castle we were fascinated we had no idea what he was gonna find in the reward was so great he came back with this crazy detailed map of the castle and as a result the rest of the venture was a breeze when you have mastered the principle of rising action the idea that you always want to try to cut from one group to the other as you are nearing or at or just after the climax of a scene you will find that letting your players run around in town letting them cut between one plot to the a plot and the B plot and another is not only possible but it's fun and incredibly dramatic especially if your players don't mind leaving the room in trading we do this all the time taking somebody outside and talking to them about what's going on because then they come back and they have their own experience to relate to the players and they will never relate what you told them precisely 100% accurately they will always interpret it somehow and that interpretation can be really amazing to see when is it okay to split the party it's okay to split the party when everyone understands what's at stake and everyone is willing to pay the consequences for this action what is it not okay to split the party it's not okay to split the party when it's gonna ruin people's fun again I think talking to your players about this ahead of time letting them know listen I don't really have the mental capacity or desire to run to different groups so I for whatever reason we're gonna have to find a way for you folks to stick together or alternatively letting the players know listen if you want to go your separate ways for a little while that's great we can either do it here because you're in town I can cut between different subplots or if we're gonna go explore the dungeon we can literally get together at different times of the week like playing evil characters I think 80 to 90% of this is just communication it's laying the groundwork for your players setting expectations and developing language to talk about this stuff don't let people online tell you how to play don't let people online say never split the party and just accept that as an axiom it may be good advice depending on the circumstance or you may be denying yourself some really amazing adventure opportunities like the evil episode I think the subject is too complex to cover in one video so what we're gonna do is we're gonna go online live at 6 p.m. Pacific time Wednesday night that's tomorrow night I think or it might be in the night after tomorrow depending on how good an editor jerry is I could have been a contender I could have been somebody and we're gonna talk about this and I will field questions about splitting the party and maybe talk about more instances in which that happened with these videos with the live videos there are sort of diminishing returns because eventually what people want me to do is they want me to audit their a campaign and I can't really do that unless I was at the table I don't really know how to solve your problems but the evil live stream went really well and a lot of interesting stuff came out of it and in fact what I'm intending to do is make a sequel to the evil video based on that live stream and will probably do the same thing with this will go online tomorrow night Wednesday night 6 p.m. Pacific time we'll talk about splitting the party and then at some point in the future I will take that discussion and turn it into a video like this the live streams are up on Twitch for about 30 days afterwards and some of them make good YouTube videos but mostly I think the experience of sitting there watching me read chat is not it's not fantastic so my goal is to harvest the live stream or important lessons to add to the sequel video that's it folks we talked about splitting the party I think the next video which is going to come fairly soon is going to be a video about the table because every time I show it off people want to know what is this table where did we get it and it does a whole bunch of cool stuff that most folks don't know about so it's not gonna be the next video won't be running the game video but it should come in the next day or two because I still want to do one bring the game video every week this video as with this studio as with everything we're doing right now is brought to you by the 30,000 people who pledged to strong Holtz and follow that have given me and my friends new careers and new lives if you want more content like this please pre-order strongholds and followers there's a ton of amazing stuff in it it should be out the PDF should be available in a number of weeks I did say weeks not months I hope there was something useful in here if you have questions come by the livestream Wednesday night 6 p.m. it'll be on Twitch for a month afterwards next week we're gonna some dice rolls as all good DMS do until then peace out

Channel: Matthew Colville

Views: 302,387

Keywords: D&D, Dungeons & Dragons, Matt Colville, Running the Game, Splitting the Party, How to play Dungeons and Dragons, Matthew Colville

Id: 262aEO3cWPQ

Length: 18min 22sec (1102 seconds)

Published: Tue Oct 02 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/Fenixius]

I watched this a few hours ago, but since nobody is talking, I'll try to very briefly summarise the video to get a discussion going.

Colville says there's two ways to split the party - run each half literally separately without the uninvolved players present, or run each half in different scenes but with everyone at the same table.

Very few tables can afford the time and logistics to arrange the first setup, the truly separate one, but it can be very cool. Sharing your experiences in character is one of his highlighted memories of D&D.

Although convenient, there are disadvantages to the same table split. It requires patience and engagement from the nonactive players, and puts a greater burden than usual on the GM. Colville's advice is to practice rising action in the same way a novel or TV show manages their A and B plots - when something exciting is about to happen in one scene, switch to the other to keep the tension high. If the scene is going to be especially exciting, you can stay on it and everyone will be engaged regardless, but otherwise, use the switching to your advantage. Another time to switch focus is when you've given the players something to think about - it can even be as mundane as what to say to someone, or a list of a shop's inventory. This keeps the nonactive players engaged by letting them think about their next move while the other group participates in a scene.

Finally, as I recall, Colville advises GMs to avoid combat during split parties at the same table. Combat has its dangers in a split party, but that's not the issue - it's that combat is long, slow, and will have the nonparticipating players twiddling their thumbs for way too long.

I liked this video. Although I've discovered this kind of split group pacing through accident, it's nice to hear the lesson from a more experienced GM. I might be able to handle it better next time.

[u/FishoD]

My two cents are that Matt is 100% right, there are ways that the party could be split, but it varies.

1. I had a moment when a group of 6 were hunting a very old (beefed up) Night Hag, 4 people literally decided to say screw it, we cannot effectively take her on, the remaining two party members decided to still fight her, leaving one murdered and another heavily mutilated. Perfect example of an insane party split. If you cannot kill something in 6, how in the world would you think you can kill it in a pair.
2. The same party (2 new characters because of point 1) was doing a heist in the same building, entrance, first floor and the basement. 3 characters were stalling and performing a ritual (and actually speaking with the dead corpse) to distract the guards. 1 person was outside, checking whether the guard shift is changing or not and 2 party members were breaking in and investigating whether the guard leader was implicated in some shady criminal activity. I was simultaneously going back and forth between the 3 parties. So a perfect example of splitting a party and it working.
3. Party has investigated the enemy camp and decided to attack from two sides of the same camp to completely confuse the enemy, quick hit, kill, hide. Rinse and repeat. So I ran combat pretty much at the same time with minor tweaks (for example one group took 1-2 rounds longer than the other, etc)

[u/berniequandel]

I liked what he said. I always understood the logic behind “don’t split the party” but I always thought it was a neat thing. Like how often in fiction do groups really stay together the whole time? Almost never. Parties split up and that’s interesting.

[u/Kelrark]

Yeah! More Colville! I like it when he does these face-to-camera discussions! This weekend I'm gonna watch his stream!

[u/Diplomat00]

It's good timing because Waterdeep Dragon Heist practically requires you to split the party. With different factions, some of which are diametrically opposed, each with their own quests, it is hard to see how a party logically does some of it together.

[u/NeoBlue42]

As a dm I don't enjoy the party splitting simply because it is a potentially lose-lose situation. If the DM leaves encounters at planned level intended for a full sized group its a high potential to party wipe. If the DM lowers the encounters to something managable then why wouldn't the party always choose to split to maximize gains? It either risks the group loosing x amount of players or cheapens the experience as a whole.

If a party I was DMing insisted on splitting I would let them...but I would be already planning the campaign damage control with an inner sigh.

[u/BoboTheTalkingClown]

I think he does a good job of summarizing the risks and rewards associated with splitting the party.

[u/SpikeRosered]

I mean whenever I split the party the people not being focused on often just completely disengage with the game.

[u/PaladinWiggles]

Don't split the party is more group advice than DM advice I feel. For precisely the reasons he mentioned, it can lead to death and its really not the DM's job to keep us safe from ourselves.