Legacy of Divisions: Tracing Polygamous Prophet Lineage from Mainstream to Fundamentalist Mormons

just to show again how closely tied and related we are with the flds the mainstream LDS and the flds I always call them cousins I feel like that's a pretty good representation but John woolly the first prophet of the flds church was actually the uncle of Spencer W Kimble who later became a prophet in the mainstream LDS church as well so he was his uncle he was his uncle also fun fact uh John woy received his patriarchal Blessing by Joseph Smith's father J Smith Senior yeah when he was eight very close ties to the church and in the end John woy became the prophet because he had a cooler beard and some people thought he was Santa Claus so no that's not facts but he did have a cool beard check it out welcome back everyone my name is Sam and I'm Melissa I grew up in the flds community it is a polygamous group run by Warren Jeffs and I'm moved out when I was 18 years old I was raised LVS now and I've been married for 9 years and have two awesome kiddos yes we do if you are interested in just listening in today we do have our podcast available and please don't forget to like And subscribe also if you are from a polygamous background and would like to share your story please feel free to reach out at growingup in polygamy gmail.com we also have our holiday fundraiser going on right now we are trying to adopt a room at the short Creek Dream Center where we can renovate a room uh for people who are leaving pous communities especially the flds find a place of Refuge there in one of Warren Jeff's old homes yes it's a great cause we really like what they're doing there it really has been a huge source of help for those leaving the flds community and having nowhere to go so yes and we already have over half of it yes by long shot so than so much thank you all so much for your donations today we are excited to talk about polygamous profits and the lineage of the profits and the breakoff because we've been reviewing a lot of videos lately and there's been a lot of talk about which prophets which fundamental prophets actually practiced polygamy I think growing up LDS it was very common and we kind of saw as well in recent videos that we've reviewed talking about you know oh well Justice Smith Brigham Young practiced polygamy and then we kind of got rid of it and these offshoots these crazy flds people over here like there they right yeah them them continuing it and it was kind of a one-off thing and so we were like you know what we should really show which profits the founding prophets which ones practice polygamy how long how long how long it actually went on for and then where the breakoff happened and the continued profits to practice polygamy within the FBS right it's it's known for some reason well I guess it depends on who you ask but for members of the mainstream LDS church the vibe is that we are the non-polygamist and the flds those people over there are the ones that practice polygamy and a lot of people don't even want to admit that even the first prophets of the church practice polygamy and so we've done a lot of research and obviously I have a lot of experience with in the flds church a lot of documentation there a lot of people and sources that I've been able to talk with that have factual information on this and so we're excited to share some facts yeah and we're basically just going to start at the beginning again we're not going to go into in this video the wise why they practice polygamy the religious Doctrine we're just going to go through a prophit age and where the breakoff happened also there are break offs like left and right all sorts of places so we're mostly just talking about the mainstream LDS Churches prophets practicing polygamy and then the breakoff of where the flds happened there's so many starting again if I guess we just start at the beginning Joseph Smith founded um at that time in April 6th of 1830 he founded the Church of Christ and that was the name of the original church that has now become the mainstream lvis church right um in 1834 it got changed to the Church of Latter Day Saints and in 1838 he recorded a revelation with the current name the Church of Jesus Christ of latterday saints so it was combined okay Joseph Smith practiced polygamy and the mainstream LDS church has come out in recent years even more with tons of transparency because we've talked to people before and had people on that there's groups that think okay he never even practiced polygamy or maybe that was something that only Bram younger started this and that but I will say I don't feel like the Church of Jesus Christ of latterday saints has anything to gain by admitting and openly publishing lots of documents and documentation about Joseph Smith's polygamy right and they have and it's it's on their website it's on their in their documentation so the church official websites are stating that yes the leaders of the church practice polygamy they're very open about that now for a while I think they tried to be a little bit more quiet about it yeah trying to create more distance between themselves and the fundamentalist and the fundamentalists yes and so maybe for that reason some members don't believe it ever happened here's what people need to realize too if you're going around claiming that Joseph Smith Never practiced polygamy and therefore that somehow makes him better but then you are also admitting that Brigham Young because I think everyone admits that Brigham Young practice polygamy there's no doubt how does that make the church any better because Joseph Brigham Young in everyone's eyes was the second Church the second prophet of the church chur of Jesus Christ of latterday saints so how does claiming that Joseph Smith didn't but Bigham young did make the church any better in any way so I just want to point out that some people claim that Joseph Smith didn't but they're okay that briam young did and somehow in their eyes that makes a difference I don't understand really why yeah that's a good point that's a good point um Joseph Smith had the guess up to 40 wives somewhere between 30 and 40 wives um himself being sealed to then came Brigham Young so he was the second president and prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of latterday saints because at that point that was the new name and he had 56 ceilings 16 women 16 wives he had children with so briam young when I first was learning about his polygamy it was very intriguing to me because he had some that he was sealed to for um Time and Eternity he had other wives that were just for time only and then he had um other wives that he got divorced from right so that could probably be a whole video on its own of briam Young's polygamy but um we just want to state that he did you know have at least 16 women that he had children with so big practicer polygamy 56 ceilings yeah he was very he was very loud about it too about the importance and yes it was a Doctrine by by Brigham Young's words by Joseph Smith's words by uh the following prophets after that they called it the doctrine of living the principles the principles and doctrines of the of polygamy so in case that's a question yes and I probably should have taken a step back in the sense that when Joseph Smith was killed in Carthage Jail there were a lot of offshoots and so um we had recently reacted to somebody where they kind of misunderstood the different offshoots so there were I'll I'll show a picture of the different offshoots but the majority of people left with Brigham Young and continued to practice polygamy heading to Utah so that was the biggest group of people that practice polygamy people that stayed behind in Illinois they did not continue the practice of polygamy so the Reformed Church of Jesus Christ of loty saints the rlds they are now known as Community of Christ they have about 250,000 members they never continued to practice polygamy um other groups in offshoots I'm not exactly sure of but there were multiple splits for about six months after Joseph Smith passed away there were lots of different group different people trying to claim that they had the authority to be the prophet next and inly well we'll start off with the rlds that now is known as The Community of Christ it was Joseph Smith's family that that started that Emma Smith and and Joseph Smith's son Joseph Smith is the third right yeah that was the lineage he was 11 at the time though so I believe there was other church leaders from the beginning that stood in but they believe that he was to be the next that he was to be a prophet yes that was definitely the lineage breakoff the breakoff that meant yeah that believe that the prophets were going to be by lineage but interestingly Joseph Smith said that he had actually stated that if I were to die then my brother hyam Smith would be the next prophet and then he also said if I were if me and my brother hire were to die then my brother Samuel Harrison which that's who I'm named after yeah Joseph Smith's brother that's who I'm named after he would be the prophet and so in Carthage Jail Joseph Smith was murdered and his brother hyram were both murdered in jail by some angry man that that broke down the doors and and and killed them there and shortly after Sam Samuel Harrison Smith was in some mysterious way ended up dying yeah he died mysteriously like a month later almost right after and my I was sort of joking but I thought oh wow did someone poison him like maybe Brigham Young and I didn't know this when I joked about that but apparently there were theories that Brigham Young had poisoned him so I don't that is not factual that is not factual at all but I just found it odd and interesting that there were some theories about that yeah Joseph Smith's final remaining brother William Smith said that he believed that Samuel Harrison was poisoned in some way because there was these claims to the office the church be the next Prophet anyway that's off topic those who followed Brigham Young to Utah were those who practiced polygamy so they followed him to Utah he's obviously polygamous next in line Came John Taylor he was the third prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and he had eight wives yeah and John Taylor uh just to kind of point out here as well the flds church believed 100% Joseph Smith was the prophet the first prophet of the church they believed 100% that Brigham Young was the second prophet of the church and they believe 100% that John Taylor was the third prophet of the church so flds up to this point we on same page on the same page we're all here in Utah both churches are the same it's all the same right now at this point yep and then came Wilford Woodruff bu bu that's a big name a big name when it comes to polygamy because Wolford Woodruff himself was polygamous he had um 10 wives although I know some had passed away at certain points but he was sealed to 10 women and definitely lived the the doctrine but he is the one who signed in 1890 the the first Manifesto and we say first because we'll get into where a second one came in right but it's the most famous Manifesto yes is the the one that Wilfred Woodruff signed basically stating or more of a denying and it even starts off with the manifesto starts off with the phrase to whom it may concern which it doesn't and you read through it it doesn't really sound like a a hardcore statement of this is where we stand as a church it was almost more of a denial to whom am may concern government official people over there we aren't doing the polygamy thing right that's kind of what it seemed like because they knew that they could have become a state Utah would not be able to become from a territory to a state um while practicing polygamy and they knew that was the thing and so he had written this Manifesto to government officials saying none of the polygamy that's happening right now is under my watch and I encourage all members to abide by the laws of of the land and that is what I practice and what I preach and what the church preaches but he obviously had or was sealed and had multiple wives at one time and now this is kind of where it gets uh interesting because the flds church now does not believe that Wilfred Woodruff was a true prophet of God and the reason for that is because he admitted that polygamy or he signed the manifesto that admitted that polygamy wasn't or was no longer important now the interesting thing though is he still practiced polygamy even after signing that Manifesto and a lot of people within the church were still being married polygamist like were men were married more than one wife still after that and Wilfred Woodruff actually traveled down to Southern Utah where some of the saints were that later became the flds and most of the people there were practicing polygamy and he actually praised them and told them that yes this is a calling of God and you need to to continue on with this commandment and this doctrine of polygamy so just so you know the flds church did stand behind Wilford Woodruff for quite some time yeah which is interesting because I'd say that's where like the history that I grew up learning about the church and the history ukra there's definitely a disconnect there because in my years of Seminary and in church and Sunday school it was very much like wer wood signed the manifesto polygamy was then over in 1890 before the 1900s even started and that's always how I viewed it whereas you were taught about Wilford Woodruff coming and giving praise to polygamist and I never heard that and even I mean I know I'm maybe jumping ahead uh but if you would allow even the next Prophet Lorenzo Snow Yeah Lorenzo Snow is polygamist he had nine wives there you go Lorenzo Snow also visited those of the F that then later became the flds and once again was encouraging and talking about the commandment and the importance of this Celestial law known as plural marriage yeah which is interesting so Lorenzo Snow still is practicing polygamy and again I feel like growing up in the mainstream illas church I did not understand that like after Wolford Woodruff our prophets were still practicing polygamy and it's not so wolfer Woodruff Lorenzo Snow practicing polygamy then Joseph F Smith he became the prophet in 1901 and Joseph F Smith had five wives and 48 children now I will I do want to point out that all of these prophets that had multiple wives post Manifesto um the wife were already married to them right so there is going to be a certain amount of overlap like just saying we're no longer going to be doing marriages they're not disbanding all the previous marriages and getting rid of them so those who are married before the manifesto obviously were continuing to live their plural lives continuing on with that so all of these they weren't marrying their all these other prophets after the manifesto weren't marrying new wives after the manifesto they are just keeping their families we know that we know of we know that there were some marriages that were Happening by the apostles in secret or in different in with I don't know other members of the church we don't know who exactly so that we know of the prophets didn't marry again after the first man Manifesto was signed yeah and from my research it looked like there were some in the quum of the 12 apostles did okay that did and definitely other members of the church which is why Joseph F Smith he is the one who came out with the second Manifesto yes and so Joseph F Smith is the one that the flds church now looks at as this horrible person that basically just came down and said no pgy we're not doing it anymore we're done no one is uh allowed to have more than one wife and he he was the one that made the blanket statement that it's over the church will excommunicate anyone that practices it that's what I was going to say the excommunication was huge so he did the second Manifesto in 1904 it was a much more clear statement it was we're not doing this anymore we so much so that we are willing to kick out members for practicing it okay in 1904 now interestingly enough you know the first Manifesto happened as the state was trying to become a state and so wolf for Witcher said that now in that time there was a man named 1905 right in 1904 is when the second Manifesto happened and it was during the Reed Smoot hearings so the senator for Utah Reed Smoot was trying to become a senator for Utah he was and he was LS and the government was saying no you guys still practice polygamy we know that you believe in polygamy all this stuff um we're not going to let you become a senator and that's when this 1904 second Manifesto came out where Joseph Smith said no we are not and not only are we not practicing it and we're not going to be doing it in hiding we're going to state that we're now going to excommunicate members if they go into plural marriage from this point forward and there won't be anymore so it's much more of a strict and that is where that is where the flds officially became the flds before before Joseph F Smith through uh Wilfred Woodruff and and Lorenzo Snow there were some people that later belonged to the flds church that didn't agree with them there was already some people saying this is to to to publicly say that you don't practice or that you shouldn't practice polygamy is just not okay because it's a it's a commandment from God Oran stand behind that so there were already people disagreeing with them but then when Joseph F Smith came out and said anyone that practices the law plamy will be excommunicated that's where the flds officially said okay we're done we're out of here and they they kind of took over the short Creek area some of them remained in Salt Lake area but they became a new church yeah and just to point out Joseph F Smith um we have a quote from him as well in 1897 so post first Manifesto but before he become became the prophet he had sent in a letter the doctrine is not repealed the truth is not an olded the law is right and just now as ever but the observance of it is stopped so we've had people who' have asked questions or we've seen people talk before where they say oh it wasn't a Doctrine it was just a policy it was just something that we did but it wasn't a Doctrine and he very clearly he's like the doctrine is not repealed like the doctrine of it has not gone away the practice of it has gone away even after the first Manifesto right um so just to clarify that as far as you know some people have differing opinions on that but like Sam said the early prophets all made a very clear it his Doctrine even Joseph Smith who signed the second manifestor Manifesto and who was saying this after the first one was saying the doctrine does not change right we're just changing whether or not we're we're at this time at this time we're commanded to no longer live it but it's still a Doctrine in the heavens and and that still goes on today within the church uh the the mainstream LDS church that polygamy is is most likely going to be practiced in the next life that still that still very much stands from I guess we'll just quickly finish up the mainstream LDS church side and then we'll go to the and then we'll go what happened to the flds and the profit lineage down that end but so yes I just wanted to point out a couple things because I thought it was interesting to me because again I grew up with what I would have considered a lot of church knowledge and I always think of Wilford Woodruff and a polygamy but Joseph Smith had five wives Hebrew J Grant was the next prophet of the church from 1918 to 1945 he had three wives and then it wasn't until George Albert Smith became the prophet in 1945 he was the first prophet to not have multiple wives which I thought was interesting I mean we're talking in the for like we're clear into the 40s here now before a leader of the church wasn't practicing polygamy so again it's so easy to think oh we stopped that in 1890 and that was the end of it but really it was a huge part of our church culture so much that our governing head as Prophet seir Revelator all the way into the 40s was practicing polygamy I mean in to be fair in 1904 that put an end to the second Manifesto put an end to marriages new marriages new marriages so these prophets and and uh members and leaders of the church that had wives like um who was the last one George Albert Smith had one George Albert Smith had one so Heber J Grant was the last one that was polygamous so HEB J Grant had married these wives before the second Manifesto so yeah even before the first even before the first so so okay so yeah so that's just to be fair and to point out that they weren't continuing on marrying multiple women the the leaders of the church anyway uh even way back then oh for sure but I guess I'm just saying that polygamy was still doctrinal enough and very much a part of church culture if your Prophet is still practicing polygamy even though there's not new polygamist families being formed it still shows that it was very much accepted and that it was very much doctrinal as a part of the church clear into the 1900s not this idea of like it just disappeared in 1890 and it was never seen again right so I think just sometimes it's easy for us to try to have that disconnect like we're so let we hear this all time we're so separated those people are so far away from us and all those pogam they're Nothing Like Us and yeah we don't have anything to do with them but even our own prophets from theas church were polygamous until the' 40s yeah you know and and probably Beyond at that point I'm sure there were still polygamous families married that were still mainstream leas church at that point so it did go far into the 1900s even if it was not post Manifesto right so that kind of puts an end to polygamy in the mainstream LDS church from there of course after Wilfred Woodruff because when the flds church officially became the fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and became their own church they went back and said well Wilford Woodruff said that polygamy was not okay anymore so therefore Wilford Woodruff is not a prophet he is Fallen he is not a true Prophet so the flds believe that their lineage of prophets is Joseph Smith Brigham Young John Taylor and then instead of Wilford Woodruff John woy that is the John woolly is the first breakoff prophet for the mainstream LDS church and he had very high callings within the LDS the mainstream LDS church he did Temple ordinances he was a patriarch State president I believe yeah all sorts a bishop he had all sorts of high callings within the church but after the second Manifesto in 1904 there were a lot of men who were like okay after the first one we can kind of just be like yeah whatever this second one you're saying you're going to excommunicate us but we're living God's laws and so woolly was actually excommunicating ated in 1914 from the mainstream LDS church for not being willing to adhere to the stopping of polygamy right and I believe that's when him and uh several several other Brethren that disagreed with the ant of polygamy and that thought that it wasn't called of God my grandfather being one of those Charles ziding were a big part of gathering people up True Believers in the law of polygamy and at that point I I know of multiple stories where even my grandfather would go and he would talk to people that were members of the mainstream LDS church but weren't really that interested in the direction they were going and almost in a way converting and bringing people to the flds side and that was kind of the beginning of the flds church growth and I don't know that it officially became a church at that point yet but that's kind of where it took a turn yeah the fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was formed in 1929 I believe but I think it's um we sometimes hear from like the Au the all group that they kind of were canoodling as well with Woolly and your grandfather and they were kind of in this group of men so while they went their own Direction there was this massive shift in like okay after the second Manifesto people kind of had to decide where their line was like were either going to continue polygamy or not and then there were the multiple branches right and so and those were the three main ones the flds church the Kingston group and the all red group those were the two main three break offs after the church said we're no longer practicing polygamy and so but yeah so then it was John woolly from the flds side that became the first prophet for the flds and then after him was his son Lauren Woolly and obviously all of them practice polygamy right there's no question there they still continue to teach the law he doesn't shock you like it does for me where I'm like Joseph Smith practiced polygamy yeah so Lauren wooy after Lauren wooy was John y Barlo he became the next prophet and then looy Johnson which looking back and talking with people Leroy Johnson is that one prophet of the flds church that I don't think anyone has anything bad to say about seems like everybody loved him that I have heard anyway I'm sure there's someone out there that maybe will comment but that I have heard everyone that was that was alive during his time as Prophet just absolutely loved him so that was that was Leroy Johnson and we called him Uncle Roy by the way for whatever reason all of the prophets of the fds church we called them uncle and and and other leaders too like Uncle Roy and then after that was Uncle rulan rulin Jeffs and then Uncle Warren Warren Jeffs and even some of other leaders like Uncle Fred he was the bishop of the Colorado City area maybe it's because you all are pretty closely related maybe there really are most people's uncle just saying just throwing that one out there anyway so that's just interesting I hadn't really thought much about it because that just oh yeah Uncle Warren you know we didn't we didn't call him I guess what would you like President Warren or something like that like the mainstream LDS church would call the prophet president Nelson we didn't call him president it was Uncle so for whatever reason but but anyway and then Warren jeffon that is who is currently the prophet of the flds church today though he is behind bars he's still Remains the prophet of the church yeah so there's a little bit of fun facts about the lineage oh other fun fact that I just have to sneak in here just to show again how closely tied and related we are with the flds the mainstream LDS and the flds I always call them cousins I feel like that's pretty good representation but John woolly the first prophet of the flds church was actually the uncle of Spencer W Kimble who later became a prophet in the mainstream church as well so he was his uncle he was his uncle also fun fact uh John woly received his patriarchal Blessing by Joseph Smith's Father Joseph Smith Senior yeah when he was eight when he was eight was eight or 11 he was little I don't remember his age but just very close ties to the church and you know in the end John woy became the prophet because he had a cooler beard and some people thought he was Santa Claus so no that's not facts but he did have a cool beard check it out anyway some fun facts and some interesting things about the two churches being so close growing up together I know that my my grandfather though he was a big part of starting the flds church he had a lot of really close ties and he was raised mainstream LDS he was raised in the church and he had a lot of really close ties to leaders of the church even my father today is has a lot of high respect for a lot lot of the man in the mainstream LDS church though they don't believe that the LDS church went the right direction they have a lot of high respect for some of the man so it's interesting and uh I know that some LDS people also have high respect for some of the flds people and so it's not always this battle between those people are these crazy people we don't associate with a lot of modernday members do come across that way but it hasn't always been that way I think mostly for the mainstream LDS they it's been an even harder like cut or trying to cut off those ties when Warren became prophet and the things that he did came out right it was this idea of now Warren Jeff is the face of polygamy he's on the FBI's top 10 most wanted for what's happening so when he became the face of polygamy the rest of us wanted to be like no he's super far away from us and that's not how our church practice polygamy has nothing to do with us because of his crimes right I think before Warren um and even growing up in St George you know 45 minutes outside of short Creek I kind of grew up with this idea that they were just our cousins like oh they're cousins and then when things came out about Warr and Jeff's is when I feel like the separation so Warren to be Warren destroyed a lot of things including I'd say the relationships between the image of the flds was never really looked up to or looked at as as a great religion because ultimately they were breaking the law by practicing polygamy but I think that there was a lot more respect towards them until Warren Jeffs came around and H yeah makes me sick but that was uh you're right I think I think that before Warren things were very different yeah if you want to hear more of what it was like for Sam to grow up in polygamy please like And subscribe if you want to hear more answers to questions about this profit lineage or anything to do specifically with Mormonism or the flds then please leave those in the comments below we love answering people's questions yes and if we don't get to your comments we apologize we do try to see them as quickly as we can but uh they come in quickly sometimes but thank you all so much for your patience and we look forward to talking with you soon talk to youall [Music] soon

Channel: Growing Up in Polygamy

Views: 12,141

Keywords: polygamy, polygamist, flds, lds, mormon, sister wives, growing up in polygamy, escaping polygamy, warren jeffs, hildale, colorado city, mormon prophets, mormon polygamy, lds church, lds polygamy, joseph smith polygamy, joseph smith, fundamentalist mormons, why lds polygamy and joseph smith, mormon polygamy history, mormon polygamy explained, mormon polygamy stories, did joseph smith practice polygamy, polygamy under joseph smith

Id: ulLU4VSkcqc

Length: 30min 26sec (1826 seconds)

Published: Mon Dec 11 2023