Learning to Appreciate Joel Schumacher's Batman

I'm at San Diego comic-con the nerd mecca of the West I'm surrounded by an endless overwhelming display of fandom and what you'll see more than almost anything else here is Batman countless versions of Batman comic book Batman and Michael Keaton Batman and Ben Affleck Batman and Adam West Batman and the Batman whoo laughs and Batman Beyond and Lego Batman but there's one Batman you never seem to see that many people would rather forget for 20 years joel schumacher's Batman movies have been considered cinematic travesties abominations in the words of George Clooney the movies that killed the Batman franchise but what if I told you that they're not actually that bad that they've gotten better with time what if I told you that it's time to give them another shot [Music] we need to remember what the state of comic book movies was in the mid-90s between 1978 and 1987 the Superman series had fallen from a glorious Blockbuster sensation that invented the modern superhero movie to an embarrassing shadow of its former self two years later Tim Burton's first Batman movie broke box office records becoming a pop-culture phenomenon this was followed in 1992 by a sequel Batman Returns also a massive success the thing about the Burton movies is that they're not especially faithful adaptations their Batman movies in which Batman kills people left and right and puts guns on the Batmobile in a baffling massive departure from the source material the Joker turns out to be the guy who murdered Bruce Wayne's parents Catwoman is somehow brought back to life by cats licking her and the penguin is a deformed mutant raised by a circus who tries to murder babies in some sort of modern biblical plague these are not especially by modern standards good adaptations of the comics but what they lacked in fidelity to the source material they made up for in magnificent visuals astounding production design riveting performances and some of the best music scores the genre has seen or heard I don't know and when it came to superhero movies the other options at the time were not great for some reason I'm never going to understand after the huge success of the first Batman movie instead of green lighting a bunch of other comic-book superhero movies Hollywood studios decided to make films about Pulp characters from the 1930s that had been out of print for years like Dick Tracy and the shadow the rare superhero movies that got made were projects like steel starring Shaq or the direct-to-video Captain America movie starring JD Salinger's son comic book fans would take what they could get and what they could get were the Burton Batman movies they might not have been ideal they may have inexplicably changed core aspects of the character and mythology East's took it seriously and were respected by the mainstream and then came the Schumacher movies I'll get drive-through chicks dig the car alright everyone in the mid nineties nerd culture was at a low point the comic book boom of the early 90s had collapsed and the industry was falling apart superhero comics were entering a sort of self-parody and the longtime fans just wanted what they loved to be taken seriously instead what these fans got were movies that hearkened back to Batman's goofy ridiculous Silver Age era and the 1960s Adam West's TV series that ditched Burton's dark edginess for neon drenched camp that included extreme close-ups of Batman and Robin's crotches and butts that put nipples on the Batsuit they were silly and childish and transparently designed to sell toys they were homoerotic the comic books had become increasingly gritty dark and violent over the past decade and these ran as far in the opposite direction as possible right when fans most wanted a serious respectable Batman movie they got this instead so they hated it especially Batman and Robin which went so far with the camp and cartoonish nests that even mainstream audiences rejected it for whatever their qualities our problems may have been they were the wrong Batman movies for their time but here's the thing an argument could be made that Batman and Robin is responsible for the superhero movie boom that has dominated the last 20 years of cinema with Batman and Robin we had a clear low point an example of what people didn't want a roadmap of what to avoid so three years later the first x-men movie made a point of being exactly what the Schumacher Batman movies were not it dropped any theatricality any elements of camp or artificiality are comic book eNOS it was grounded and realistic and straight up mocked the idea of colorful goofy costumes would you prefer yellow spandex then two years later Sam Raimi spider-man while a more colorful than x-men still made an important choice that Batman and Robin had not it was faithful to the comics it was the spider-man fans recognized and wanted to see it was sincere instead of winking the pitch for Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy might as well have been the opposite of the Schumacher movies in every way this was the first time the character had appeared in live-action since 97 and Warner Brothers was making a promise to the audience don't worry it's not going to be like those other Batman movies it won't be silly and it definitely won't be gay even the Marvel Cinematic Universe by far the most hugely successful comic book movie series ever positioned itself from the beginning in a very unsure mocker way as wacky and cosmic and comic-book ii as they eventually got they began with a shot of military jeeps in the Afghanistan deserts firmly placing those stories in our world a world that is realistic and grounded that take it all seriously suddenly I've realized is that for my generation and for a lot of fans of comic books and comic book movies the conversation about Joel Schumacher begins and ends with his two Batman movies this is short-sighted and basically wrong the Austral Schumacher has made 22 other movies and most of them don't really resemble the Batman movies at all if you hear the name Schumacher and say oh yeah the rubber nipples guy you're missing the point he was part of the crowd of 80s filmmakers making mainstream movies with strong aesthetic choices and like Tony Scott or Adrian Lyne his movies were drenched in spectacular uses of color fog and wind he had a knack for casting young actors who would immediately become huge stars like everyone in st. Elmo's fire The Lost Boys or Flatliners even after the Batman movies he's the director that launched Colin Farrell's career he jumped from melodramas about 20-somethings to vampire horror comedies to romantic comedy used to John Grisham legal thrillers the guy made falling down he had range he was great with actors could leap from genre to genre and he was a really exciting unique visual stylist he also made back-to-back movies featuring sexy sax men and now I'm disappointed that we never got a scene where Batman played the saxophone if you watch Flatliners not the remake with Ellen Page the original one he seems like the perfect guy to take over the Batman series from Tim Burton it's a gorgeous inventive gothic melodrama set at a medical school that looks like a decrepit art museum look at this insane apartment where a Kiefer Sutherland's character lives it's dark and theatrical in a similar way to Burton's Batman movies but cares about the humanity of the characters in a way those films don't what I'm saying here is that Schumacher is more fun and interesting that he gets credit for like Flatliners kind of rules check it out okay now that I've spent 10 minutes talking about everything but Schumacher's Batman movies I think it's time to talk about Schumacher's Batman movies for decades there's been a ton of talk about how he was ordered to make them lighter and more kid-friendly and to tailor them more to the demands of the marketing departments and the need to sell toys and it is true that McDonald's got to review the script for Batman Forever before production and that there were requests to add some extra vehicles on costumes to Batman and Robin for the sake of manufacturing more action figures but it is straight-up untrue to say that these are not absolutely Schumacher's movies if you watch this channel you've probably heard me complain about the homogeneity of modern superhero movies and the lack of strong singular takes by interesting filmmaker but that is exactly what Schumacher's Batman movies are Batman Forever is not a radical departure from Burton's films it's lighter and more colorful but still takes Batman himself seriously and tries to probe deeper into his psychology as in his love interest is literally a psychologist who tries to probe deeper into his psychology but we get flashbacks to his childhood and origin story delivered in Schumacher's classic fog and wind filled style unfortunately a lot of this subplot was left on the cutting room floor and it feels like a half-measure probably the biggest change in Schumacher's approach was bringing the series back to a more classical old-school comic-book notion of heroes and villains good guys and bad guys where morality is black and white the villains aren't misunderstood damage outcasts they're just villains and the heroes are idealized both in heroic ideology and physical appearance instead of body armor Batman and Robin's costumes resemble perfect male forms like Greek statues so you know what the nipples actually make sense there's something about an anatomically correct rubber suit while Burton took inspiration from Batman comics of the mid to late 80s in forever Schumacher looked back to the Silver Age with colorful stories full of cartoonish sci-fi elements let's remember the plot of Batman Forever involves Riddler and two-face teaming up to go on a crime spree so the Riddler can become a tech mogul and use an invention to suck the brain waves from Gotham citizens on his secret island lair Batman is a comic book it's supposed to be a comic book it was created in 1939 to be a comic book we made a living comic book that's what it's supposed to be if you demand a serious Batman story filled with detective work and damaged murderous criminals this is not it but it is absolutely a certain kind of classic Batman story while there were camp elements in Batman Forever Batman and Robin took them much much further that movie revels in it's exaggerated aesthetics adding giant Grecian statues to Gotham skyline it proudly exists in a fantastical artificial in many ways it is a big-budget adaptation of the 1960s Adam West TV series with celebrity sun casting of the villain roles pun filled one-liners and absurd bat accessories gone is any of Batman's psychological trauma no more brooding or xed he's a superhero who has fun being a superhero alongside his best superhero friend Robin when people talk about these movies the odd assumption seems to be that they're bad because they're not serious but why why does serious our Dark equal better this is the thinking of insecure dudes who need to validate their continued enjoyment of the stuff they loved as children it's the kind of thinking that led to an actual r-rated cut of a Superman movie being released by Warner Brothers it's easy to overlook this fact but remember Batman was created for kids one of the major complaints about the Schumacher movies was that they were too gay it was the 90s it was a less woke time and back then nerd culture was way more dominated by straight white dudes they complained that the Batman costume with its nipples pronounced codpiece and shapely ass was designed to appeal to gay men that Robin's seeming so close in age to Batman gave their partnership a strong homoerotic subtext plus there are the giant statues of muscular men around Gotham Poison Ivy's drag inspired performance and the general emphasis on neon and camp and they're not wrong Schumacher is an openly gay man and you'd have to be blind and deaf to miss all the queer subtext and imagery but and I say this as one of the straight dudes who used to complain about the kam penis of these movies why is that a problem because look as much as people love Batman being cool and badass and brooding and totally super heterosexual there is and has always been a gay subtext there Schumacher just noticed it and emphasized it remember back in May when the theme for this year's Met Gala was camp and everyone on Twitter kept debating what was and was not camp so I'm not the most qualified person on the subject but I'm pretty sure this is camp I need a sign how about slippery when wet yeah this is definitely camp Batman and Robin wins the Met Gala if anything the least effective parts of these movies are when they try to be serious and emotional a lot of the campy superhero stuff in Batman and Robin is actually pretty effective and fun especially the opening set piece featuring evil hockey players and mr. Freeze's rocket ship what works less well is the subplot about Alfred developing a terminal illness which is played completely straight Val Kilmer at the time perfectly cast as Batman and more than capable of big commanding movie star performances and movies like tombstone Top Gun or The Doors is given little to do as Bruce Wayne and delivers a fairly boring subdued performance he blends into the scenery while Jim Carrey devours it until recently I hadn't watched these movies in at least 10 years last time I saw them I hated them they were garish and obnoxious and not the Batman I wanted to see but now after all the dozens of superhero movies we've consumed and digested these have somehow improved with age in the 90s that there was a different pressure on them this was all we had in terms of high-profile superhero movies and they weren't what we wanted but now we've had plenty of serious faithful adaptations of the comics Christopher Nolan made Batman movies that one [ __ ] Academy Awards now we can look back on the Schumacher movies and see them for what they are a different filmmakers take on the character seriously it's time to get over the [ __ ] nipples and what's nice about them is just how completely different they are from modern superhero movies where every Batman movie we've seen since whether by Nolan or Zack Snyder has given us a Gotham City that looked more or less like any existing American city especially Chicago Schumacher gave us the fantastical gothic Gotham of the comic books I realized that I missed a certain level of theatricality to superhero movies like how Batman swings into scenes in perfect comic-book poses our Jim Carrey's Riddler dances through every scene like a deranged Broadway performer are the final shots of each movie with the heroes running toward us in slow motion silhouetted by the bat-signal it's impossible to imagine an MCU movie leaning into full abstract iconography to that degree and you know what it's cool I like it in the same way I appreciate angley's Hulk more with time although that is a better movie Schumacher's Batman movies feel unique because they're movies that would never get made now in this age of interconnected cinematic superhero universes it's impossible to imagine a director getting to do such a singular distinctive take on one of these intellectual properties right now I'm going to say maybe the most controversial thing I've ever said on the Internet I'm going to get torn apart for this and remember I'm the guy who dared to say that plot holes don't matter and that the last Jedi is a good movie so here we go Joel Schumacher has nothing to apologize for now to be entirely clear I don't think either of these movies is especially great they're very mixed bags to me there are stuff that works and a lot of stuff that doesn't work but they are by no means the worst superhero movies ever not even close not even the worst Batman movies they're better than a lot of the other superhero movies we've had in the last 20 years they're better than daredevil or the fantastic four movies are Elektra they're better than some of the x-men movies but now here are my 11 favorite things about the Schumacher Batman movies his beautiful exaggerated comic book II Gotham City Jim Carrey as the Riddler he totally gets the tone of the movie is operating at and everything from his movements to his line deliveries is kind of thrilling to watch the old-school Silver Age stories where superheros stop villains from robbing banks and stuff like that like I think it's great how Commissioner Gordon just calls Batman and says there's a new villain in town he calls himself mr. freeze that's fun these are the only live-action movies that give us a proper gothic Arkham Asylum The Riddler has a secret island lair I love it the way Batman's cape moves it's so fluid and beautiful and it feels just like it does in the comics I like that all the villains don't die that's one of those things that way too many super movies do I genuinely love the big theatrical iconic visuals uma thurman as poison ivy I think she understands what the movie is better than anyone else in the cast she is like exactly on the same page as Eartha Kitt's Catwoman from the 60s series Elliot Goldenthal scores he made an entirely new set of Batman themes that are honestly more memorable than any superhero movie has had since then and the soundtracks they had new songs by u2 and Smashing Pumpkins and they ruled they had goddamn kiss from a rose with a music video directed by Schumacher these were peak mid 90's movie soundtracks and I love them my favorite comic book writer is Grant Morrison he's written a lot of comics but in the late 90s his run on JLA largely created the modern interpretation of Batman the hyper prepared master tactician who can defeat anyone because he's always like a hundred steps ahead he's the ultimate loner badass even though he's on a team with a bunch of his friends then in 2006 Morrison began a seven-year run on Batman's main solo title and in that run he presented his main thesis that every version of the character every weird story from the 50s where he wears a rainbow costume and has a rocket ship and clones himself or whatever it all counts it's all the same Batman and instead of brushing the stuff we don't like under a rug and pretending it doesn't exist we should embrace it all and in a 2012 interview Morrison took it even further on the subject of Batman's latent homoeroticism he said gayness is built into Batman I'm not using gay in the pejorative sense but Batman is very very gay there's just no denying it obviously as a fictional character he's intended to be heterosexual but the basis of the whole concept is utterly gay I think that's why people like it all these women fancy him and they all wear fetish clothes and jump around on rooftops to get to him he doesn't care he's more interested in hanging out with the old guy and the kid so here's the writer who helped create the Dark ass-kicking a modern idea of Batman and completely validating schumacher's take right down to the nipples and buckshots I was a kid when I saw the Schumacher movies and theaters at the time I thought they were awesome I never felt the anger older fans did toward them but I finally had my own similar experience in 2016 watching Batman V Superman dawn of Justice I hated it I truly hated it it made me angry as it was both a miserable slog and in my opinion completely misunderstood who Batman is it was not my Batman but this wasn't a 1997 anymore and now a bad Batman movie didn't matter as much this wasn't the be-all end-all of superheroes in the mainstream this was just one movie we had plenty of good superhero movies and even some good serious Batman movies if this one sucked whatever we'd get another one soon enough I didn't need to launch a fan petition against Zack Snyder or send hate mail to Warner Brothers I could accept that this was just another version of Batman that didn't happen to be for me but it's still valid just like Schumacher's Batman is valid and Adam West's Batman and Christopher Nolan's Batman and Bruce Tim's Batman and Bill fingers Batman and dick Springs Batman and Frank Miller's Batman and Lego Batman and Tom Kings Batman it's like the episode of the animated series legends of the Dark Knight where a group of kids tell stories about what they think Batman is like and each one is radically different in the style of various famous comic books it's all Batman there's no superhero as malleable as Batman while Superman and spider-man tend to return to a specific definitive interpretation with Batman versions as wildly different as Adam West and Christian Bale sit comfortably alongside each other joel schumacher's Batman is as valid as any other it's actually pretty fun and I definitely rather rewatch one of those movies than Batman V Superman at Comic Con this year there is a whole Batman exhibit at the Comic Con museum displaying the various costumes props and vehicles from the Batman movies walking around the museum I look at all the bat suits from every era right alongside each other the Schumacher stuff isn't shoved off into a corner it's right there next to the stuff from the Burton movies are the Nolan movies or that Gotham show that I never watched and whether intended by Warner Brothers are not the message of the exhibit is clear this is all Batman Batman is all of this he has been and will continue to be many things to many people they all count there's something for everyone but there are still some fans who are so obsessed with one particular ultra grim ultra serious version that they'll raise $26,000 to post ads for it around the city ah call me when there's a campaign for the Schumacher cut was that over-the-top while I was researching and writing this video one of the most useful sources I used was this book the caped crusade Batman and the rise of nerd culture by Glenn Weldon as you probably guess it's about Batman and the rise of nerd culture but more specifically it's about the history of Batman through comics TV and movies and how it correlates to the changing landscape of fandom it's a really great funny look at how we ended up in this weird place where nerd stuff dominates popular media and you can listen to it today if you sign up for audible.com audible has the largest selection of audiobooks on the planet so you can listen to this book or if you prefer any other if you sign up today at audible.com slash Patrick Williams our text the promo code Patrick Williams - 500 500 you can get your first 3 months for just 495 per month that is three months for the price of one and you can get a new audio book each month so after you listen to the caped crusade choose two more again that is audible.com slash Patrick Williams or text Patrick Williams - 500 500 his offer is only good until the end of July so go sign up now listen to a book about Batman [Music] [Applause] [Music] 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Channel: undefined

Views: 344,226

Rating: 4.5360789 out of 5

Keywords: patrick willems, lumberjack films, patrickhwillems, patrick h willems, joel schumacher, batman, batman forever, batman & robin, bat nipples, video essay

Id: zKnGolObx0k

Length: 25min 46sec (1546 seconds)

Published: Thu Jul 25 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/gilliminator]

Patrick mentions Grant Morrison's idea of Batman towards the end. You really need to hear it in full to understand the genius of it https://youtu.be/Fut9DHWzi50

[u/TheDPurcell]

This is just...

*chefs kiss*

[u/5secondsofmayhem]

Appreciate the moment focusing on the bizarre choices in the 90s of making Dick Tracy, The Shadow, The Phantom, The Rocketeer the timing for all of these movies feels really off as well

[u/AlexBarron]

The Batman 60s show had actual wit and social commentary. The Schumacher movies, on the other hand, are loud, garish, and empty. They don't work as kids movies because of how overtly sexual they are (and I'm not talking about nipples, I'm talking about Poison Ivy and Chase Meridian), and they don't work as comedies either because they lack any sort of wit. My dislike has nothing to do with the gayness or needing Batman to be serious.

[u/pokapokaoka]

I have a question to the Americans and I suppose other western nationals as well. I understand that comic books were part of nerd culture but just how big was that niche? I grew up in 90s and early 2000s in Poland and as far as I know no matter where you stood on social ladder comic books were not popular or not a thing at all. No one was ridiculed for liking comic books cause even if they read them no one associated it with anything really. So at least among people I know we watched Batman films as films not an adaptations. They were stand alone entertainment pieces. I feel like I'm looking at the rise of comic book films from another view point because of that. I don't see it as either a commercialisation or an celebration but more of a fad. Which is fine but it also means I have no strong feeling towards it becoming a thing and seeing all those heated disscusions about accuracy or lack thereof makes me feel distanced from what the essays try to say. I understand that Patricks as well as other yt essayists films are mostly aimed at a certain audience but it still feels weird.

[u/velmaspaghetti]

Haven’t gotten a chance to sit down and watch this yet, but I am pumped! I have been trying to convince people to give the Schumacher films another shot for soooooo long.

[u/DaFlabbagasta]

Patrick, be prepared for a whole lot of angry emails from people demanding you to watch Gotham.

[u/jawsnnn]

I can see how it's a "valid" take on the character, but not a "good" take by any means

[u/grundleplith61616]

Pretty much the only person I would hear out on this subject. Can't wait to watch this.