Larry Arnn on the Declaration and Constitution

welcome to uncommon knowledge I'm Peter Robinson we're shooting today at Hillsdale College in Hillsdale Michigan I wanted to remind you by the way to join us at facebook.com facebook.com slash UNC knowledge facebook.com forward slash punk knowledge dr. Larry P Arnn received his undergraduate degree from Arkansas State University and his master's and doctoral degrees both in government from the Claremont Graduate School he has also studied at the London School of Economics and at Worcester College Oxford he is a founder and past president of the Claremont Institute since 2000 dr. Arnn has served as the 12th president of this institution Hillsdale College and has still found time to write and teach on our topics today the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and our time is limited because you've got to go off and teach the fifth book of Aristotle's ethics is that correct correct ordinarily I welcome people to uncommon knowledge but this is your campus so you welcome me Larry you you are warmly well thank you Larry segment 1 what the founders gave us I'm quoting you you can read the Declaration in the Constitution in a few minutes they're simple they're beautiful they can be understood and retained place the documents in their historical context why did they matter at the time well they're very there never been anything like them in history there still is nothing like them but remember the King of England who was a nice man by the way in a in a humble man for a king was referred to by the title majesty and it took the founders a lot of them for a long time thought the other way you can have stability is if some family is appointed to rule and so the king if the king was a very humble man but when his son wanted to marry somebody a noble but of lower stationed and then the king's family he said princes may not marry subjects ever no matter what your heart says so the point is that's the world right that's what's known and that that's the first incredible thing about the decorative independence they're three the second incredible thing about the doctor was independence is in the last sentence the Declaration of Independence was written by people for whom the military was looking general gage had an order and the order said find these people even if it means complete war retained them in other words they were guilty of treason and now they're going to put their name on a document and send it to the king and they write in the last sentence in the mood that somebody who was about to do that would write in support of this declaration we mutually pledge to each other Our Lives our Fortunes and our sacred honor that's how people talk on a battlefield they die for each other we mutually pledge to each other that's the second extraordinary thing and then the third becomes more amazing because of the first to the opening of the declaration independence has nothing to do with them in fact it demotes them it's not our unique situation it's not us a special people here to do a grand deed it it begins universally and abstractly when in the course of human events means any old time it becomes necessary for one people means any old people to dissolve the political bands that have connected with another and to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them it's an act of obedience to law that persists beyond the English law and below it beyond any law that they might make so for them to be the particular people whose lives are at risk and for them to be turning over an entire way of organizing society that had dominated for 2,000 years and then for them to begin that way it's very grand but also you can't miss it it's partly humble mmm it's it's we these are the ways that people must comport themselves we are going to do that and if you will that British we will get on and if not we will not and we will be in the right because of that so that's what's remarkable about it and why it's very beautiful the Declaration and it connects to the Constitution you have to first know that modern scholarship claims and you know Gordon wood and Joseph Ellis and famous people excellent scholars claim that there were two foundings one for the decorative independence and one for the Constitution and they mean different things is the claim and and by the way that's a that's a very powerful thing because if it's true that they changed their mind right in the middle of the Revolution their example to us might be we can change our mind whenever we want to but the Constitution doesn't read that way the Constitution has three grand things in it and they're very lovely and they are all commanded in the Declaration of Independence the first is that government be limited in the Declaration and it's limited in obvious ways right there's it's a doctrine of enumerated powers in the Constitution there's a list of things that the Congress can do in the Constitution and the other things that it's not listed they it may not do and you'd think that some change from the Declaration but to in the Declaration the middle part of the Declaration of Independence is the charges against the king right and if you want to understand American constitutionalism its basis read those because the things that the King has done justify the revolution and they amount to violations of constitutionalism so he has sent swarms of officials among us to eat out our substance and harass our people he has brought troops from a foreign jurisdiction he has so in other words it's a breach of limited government mmm-hmm but once you have limited government you have a vast big society that's independent and you can locate sovereignty in it now James Madison takes pride in the 63rd Federalist that this is the first form of government in which the sovereign does not operate any part of the government it is a and this is the second principle it is a representative form of government it is limited and because it's limited it's possible for it to be representative and what that means is in the government nothing will operate except that it gets its authority from outside but since everybody's human who's going to get governed then you don't want the people outside to be of unlimited power either and so they can only act through the government they can't act directly they can talk and talk and talk and argue in arguing or just like we are right now mm-hmm just like you did beautifully last night in your speech about Reagan but we have to wait for elections to do anything that makes us more deliberative the charges against the king and the Declaration of Independence are full of a list of where the king the executive branch has messed with the legislators and the judges and disrupted representative institutions Larry segment two losing our way you've you've referred to the declaration of the Constitution as beautiful documents significant documents and you've just told us why to the extent that one can in a limited time realize I quote you again Larry our Woodrow Wilson and the founders of modern liberalism called these doctrines doctrines of limited government that appear in the declaration in the Constitution obsolete they argued that we now live in the age of progress and that government must be an engine of that progress now Wilson was dealing with conditions that the founders could scarcely have imagined industrialization dense urban populations particularly on the East Coast enormous waves of immigration so what's so wrong with Wilson's effort maybe he got a little wrong here a little there but he's attempting to adapt the American Founding to quite new conditions of maternity what did he get wrong well I mean first of all he had he liked to look back on the founding as a simple age you know remember what it was like you know they had never been such a thing before they had to declare an entirely new set of principles by which to govern and make war on the biggest force on earth and they they named it the Congress was called the Continental Congress they hadn't seen the continent didn't until Lewis and Clark came back to reports now President Thomas Jefferson in eighteen five I think right yes so vast acts of imagination and then they had to figure out a way for the first free government in history to grow across the continent in Nords they faced enormous complications and the idea that the complications of the 19th century are larger is bunkum so the first clue that Wilson is off the mark is that he appears to be condescending to people who were very great Matt yeah that's right and you know he's a simple simple age you know we have more now but the second thing is a very easy thing to see it's a core thing what is the reason behind constitutional forms against which Wilson rebels Madison says it is written in the fact that we require to be governed because we are not angels but government must be limited because angels do not govern men and so that means that just as we outside the government required to be governed those inside the government also required to be governed and that has to be strictly arranged because they need and they will have a lot of power now the the judge right now it's very easy to make between Madison's claim that it's an abiding and eternal fact that the Equality of man is found in the fact that men are not angels and what was Woodrow Wilson's fact that evolution which is what he thought was going on and got us to a place where we didn't have to worry about that stuff anymore and judge look at the government today take a look is it impartial is it efficient you showed that speech by Reagan from 64 the time for choosing speech last night and that I'll say to your viewers described brilliantly beautifully how you attempted to emulate that speech in composing another of his greatest speeches about the Berlin Wall what does he say in that speech what he says in the speech is what's obvious for all - singing the modern bureaucracy is not politically impartial it is not politically disinterested it is obviously and massively self-interested and what James Madison said and remember when James Madison is setting up a limited government he understands that he himself is likely to be a very large figure in it and he doesn't set up a government where he himself you buy and do whatever he pleases right he becomes I mean he and Thomas Jefferson are the founders of the political party that destroyed the Federalist Party and ruled a country for 60 years he succeeded his friend Thomas Jefferson as president of the United States he was the maker of the institution that kept the president from being all-powerful so he's not saying anything against the characters of people who are alive today except the simple thing that they are human and not angels Larry you've written that some now argue that nature is not really the commanding conception in the declaration but history is the commanding conception and I found that very interesting your the way you contrast those two would you do that for us now nature means two things in this context it means the thing itself itself it means the cup is a cup it has some companies about it makes it a cup and there's lots of different cups but you can see the compass and all of them so whatever the nature of the thing is whatever it is specifically the nature of the human being is to reason it is the animal that can reason now the second thing nature means is the process of beginning and growth by which living things come to be it the word nature actually comes from the Latin word for birth so the nature of Peter is to be born a little boy and get older and you know right here and causes stop there cause his parents troubles until he's about 26 you know they're 18 to 21 years old around here we know and and then you know you become the man you are and then I watched you taping a show that you're gonna be shown with Paul right and you guys were both speculating about your death right you know about that that's your nature so when you look at people it doesn't actually matter from the point of view of nature whether human beings used to be monkeys what we know is if you look at the things in nature that are before us now this human thing is a very distinctive thing and and it can't be treated like a pig that's a famous historical example Stephen Douglas says to Abe Lincoln he says you think that I can take my buckboard and my hog into Nebraska and the federal government has to protect my property in it why not then my slave and Lincoln replies just fine if there's no difference between the hog and the slave but you know the difference because if you just look here's an example of mine not Lincoln's I can give you Lincoln's if you want me to if you go read the Alabama slave code which was a very bad one there were restrictions on how many slaves could get together and how long they could stay together and how long he'd be in doors together and those were generally waived in the case of meeting with a qualified Minister hmm now they put all kinds of fences around their hogs and they didn't make exemptions for the Hogs to go meet the minister but they did the slaves because they know what they are that's the nature of the man and the rights of the man are written in the nature of the man and you cannot mistake it now if evolution by the way evolution in my opinion if it's true and I don't even care if it's true because it's quite beside the point if it could repeal that in other words if what we think is and remember which are Wilson thinks it things are evolving very fast you know cuz he's writing what you're quoting in about 1880 or 1890 in 1890 and the founding is about a hundred years before and he thinks that all of the fundamental conditions have been repealed by time in a hundred years but have they you can see that they have not so if you think that evolution is supplying some standard that permits people to do whatever they want to do that's only a good idea if they're not still people but what if they are what if the nature of the man persist what if it's true that you and I people of goodwill have known each other a while and would be ashamed if we knew about each other that we did something wrong what if it's true that neither of you is quite the man neither of us is quite the man that George Washington was hmm nature something made him really great doesn't happen very often Larry you've spoken about the attempt to restore some rounded and rigorous sense of constitutional government and you have put forward you in a speculative tone as I under in a tentative tone not trying to lay down law but put forward suggestions to prompt thought and so forth four pillars let's go through them pillar one and I'm quoting you protecting the equal and inalienable rights of individuals is government primary responsibility I'm with you here's a problem against which to test it in current circumstances something like 47% of Americans now pay no federal income tax and we hear a great deal about the tipping point the moment at which more people become dependent on federal on the federal government than pay into it the moment at which they become to use Paul Ryan Congressman Paul Ryan uses these terms more takers than makers now what is it within the Constitution as within a revived constitutional government that prevents this majority from simply voting itself the property of the minority well the first thing is it's larger self-interest rightly understood is that practice working out really well in Greece right now you know the point is Margaret Thatcher you know pretty soon you run out of other people's money mm-hmm and you know I myself have not particularly gloomy about that tipping point thing because you're not not really because I mean I think there's a time coming when we're not going to be able to repair this but I think it's because things are so controversial right now and because the political contests are so narrowly drawn and because the polls show how many people think the government's out of hand and doesn't represent them anymore I just think that that's proof that we haven't passed the tipping point yet the people have not yet been corrupted I don't think so and I think you know people are you know i I've had the privilege of studying Winston Churchill for a long time and his great touched on his grave credential step that he would always take and I think that should be the model for us today is that let's try to make the questions clear to people and have faith in them because you know maybe we think they're clear to us but we don't we're not empowered to rule them against their consent our job is to explain any citizen who thinks he understands his job is to explain and see how they react and I'm optimistic partly because the explanations have not been very good since Reagan what if they were better you know and and by the way in other words it's kind of encouraging that we're not very good maybe we could get better okay pillar to quote I'm quoting you Larry economic Liberty is inversely proportional to government intrusion in lives of citizens we must liberate the American people to work to save and to invest close I'm with you but here's a constitutional question mmm Milton Friedman noticed this James Buchanan won a Nobel Prize writing about it the deep structural problem problem that in the American federal government the benefits of federal spending accrue to small groups who therefore have incentives to organize and agitate for more and more and more spending whereas the costs of federal spending are diffused across the whole population so no one has a counterbalancing incentive to organize and agitate against spending so you get this ratchet that always leads in the direction of greater spending along comes Ronald Reagan and tamps things down for a while and then Ronald Reagan departs the scene and it's right back at it so there is something the argument goes based in human nature lord knows we're not angels but that the Constitution seems not to have grappled with two points yes one is don't blame the Constitution it's the longest surviving and greatest in human history and the effort to overturn it is now more than 100 years old and the major breaches have happened pretty recently so it's not a failure of it it's a failure it's a success of a rebellion against it which has been very systematic for a long time but second public choice theory is a very powerful thing and a true and sufficient explanation of things as far as it goes but doesn't it work a little different in a time like that now because now it's not a case of these you know Milton Friedman loved to argue like I have been proud to say that guy was a friend of mine for 30 years and I just adore him and I had the good privilege not to be his student so he was never tough with me his students were all afraid of him and he made them better I cut the edge once or twice yeah I bet you did I bet you did you know he yeah and once asked him a question and then I answered and I said well I guess I've taken enough of your time and he said yes you have yes he's a quick little devil and and he used to say farmer subsidies farmers are going to grow and subsidies to old people are going to decline because there's so many farmers sorry so many old people that for us to give them a hundred bucks it's gonna cost us one hundred and seventy-five mmm and we're gonna fight against it we're some farmers there's so few of them that for us to give him 100 grand it only cost us 10 bucks and so we won't fight it that's public choice theory and they're not right right but isn't the problem now that everybody knows we're broke right and everybody you know if and so unless there's an abiding or overarching sense of fairness that touches a majority of the American people and I believe there is then if there is that though constitutionalism looks more attractive than it used to look and so if you took say and this is too grand to be a plan but it's a notion if you took the Paul Ryan plan mm-hmm which is in strict terms unconstitutional and you implemented it it would be a step back toward constitutionalism why you lost me right there when you said it's strictly speaking it's unconstitutional well then you know in the strict sense of article 1 section 8 education is not mentioned retirement benefits are not mentioned healthcare is not mentioned and there's no congressional power over those things okay and so I I believe myself that what you should do is talk about separation of powers representation and limited government and try to get those back an article 1 section 8 is a much longer term project but but you're willing to play along with Paul Ryan because he's at least moving us back toward also he's a great man right you know I was disappointed along with many when he didn't run for president and I was one of those who urges him to do it but take his plan and then the thing is it's a good plan and it's in the longer-term interest of everyone that plan the retirement benefits that we get will be protected the entitlement state it's promises will be vindicated and it would be terrible to invest all that money and all that expense in this system and then squander it better to save it and if you do save it in the right way it prepares for a next step in which more of that stuff would be local or private okay on to the next segment here with pillars three and four pillar three quoting you once again to accomplish its primary duty of protecting individual liberty the government must uphold national security close quote it seems perfectly fit straightforward the government has a duty to protect me from you to protect me from the government itself and certainly to protect me from terrorists attacks from outside okay now to quotations Larry armed quote promotion of democracy and defense of innocents abroad should be undertaken only in keeping with the national interest pretty limited george w bush and his second inaugural address quote the survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands the best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world close quote Larry Arn thinks George W Bush was just over reaching there or where do you where do you want to place yourself where do you want to place a correct understanding on the spectrum of Ron Paul on one hand and George W Bush on the other well first of all Ron Paul makes an important error he says we have a six hundred bases overseas we have about twenty with any sizable number of troops and about eight with a large number if you count ambassador Oriole detachments right you know so I don't agree with that right that's false but I side with Winston Churchill and Thomas Jefferson I side with what I just wrote Jefferson said we are the Friends of Liberty everywhere custodians only of our own and that's just a practical understanding right it's you know I pray that Iraq is going to be a free country and I think there's a chance of it and I give George Bush credit for that I was skeptical and got to help us I hope it happens wait but it's complicated and you know some senior person in the White House said to me one time don't you think they want it and I said certainly do have you read the Federalist Papers and do you divine from that that that's enough so the point is it's hard to do that until nars Chambers's jefra where does Jefferson's where does the attack on the Tripoli Pilot pirates fit in they were attacking our people in our shipping ok it was very limited he he sent the then very small United States Navy across to Africa to whip a small number of pie it was a limited operation it wasn't attempting to establish a rule of democracy across what was then what is iranica and look at first of all Prudential things yes are not subject to narrow rules in advance right that that statement by him you know he was it particularly gifted to individual Friends of Liberty everywhere custodians only of our own pretty good formula that's a brilliant guide right now do I think we did a good thing in Japan sure I do why because they did a terrible thing to us and darned if we didn't go level the place and there was an opportunity in that see said it would have been a false economy not to but does that mean that in every country where there's a threat us we won't be safe until they're all democratic the answer is probably that's true but is making them democratic practicable and the most practical way to save serve our security probably not a Tory pillar for quote the restoration of a high standard of public morality is essential to the revival of constitutionalism and you say public morality so here's a test case forgive me for mentioning it in these August halls but Bill Clinton did something improper in private and lied about it under oath and created no end of uproar and his supporters always said it's all a private matter it has no bearing on his conduct as president you all simply to forget about it and leave it alone how do you deconstruct that incident in our national history and what I'm getting I don't I'm not so much care who cares about Bill Clinton God thank goodness we can now say that about the man who cares what I'm trying to get at is your distinction between public morality and morality per se well public morality by the way is laws about morality it's you know what we think is you know murder is a moral harm but I I mentioned that term nature earlier the process of beginning and growth by which people come to be how do kids grow up here's what you learned if you work in a college they're 18 19 20 or 21 years old except for our to 80 year olds and and you know therefore the 80 year olds their parents are not calling but the 18 and 19 and 21 year olds 20 and 21 year olds if I call their home I say this is Larry Oren and everything's okay even if it isn't because they're worried if I call oh I see you see and the point is if they were some other kind of creature they wouldn't know who their children are you see human beings were made for the family mmm we should appalled that it's hard to raise a kid hmm you know and takes it takes a long time so things like that but then another thing is the government is so large now and it does so much that it's very difficult for a free people to keep track of it and and you know there's just thousands of things going on right this minute you know it's we're probably worse governed now significantly than we were when this interview started and that's and that's saying something you know so uh so how can I keep up with it and that means that we're so big and so big in relation to the rest of the society I think these numbers are accurate I think the gross domestic product the United States is 15 trillion and I think state local and federal spending is six point seven trillion half I think would be seven and a half trillion right so we're 800 billion away and health care is coming if it gets past that seven and a half it just means in money terms the government is larger than the rest of the society how can the rest of the society watch it of course there's endless possibilities of corruption in such a thing so so as a constitutional point that's the kind of morality you're talking about I just we haven't discussed this but out of sheer curiosity morality in the culture at large that I mean that - the sort of garbage language in pop songs these days or the proliferation of porn on the internet are just that degrades the people see you know like right at this college we don't we don't have politically correct crimes you know but we you're supposed to be civil around here right and don't be foul mm-hmm straighten up huh and we don't have many problems because they've subscribed to that before they come and that's a condition of good order in operation you mentioned I'm going teach this afternoon right if if you know unless they have a bad day which they do they want to worked really hard for today and I'm gonna get there and they're gonna know stuff and I'm working you know I was sitting back there while you were talking to Paul I'm trying to get ready for class and I've been reading that book for 40 years and what's that about that means a bunch of people come together and make a common effort and it is successful because they're all working on it that's a microcosm of constitutional rule it's a miracle what can be achieved in a country if everyone is governing himself and it is the this this simple thing this is the most important thing for people to understand free people are not governed by rules I can show you how that doesn't work in this College because we've tried they're governed by goals and then the rules are very broad tell the truth don't cheat take care of other people you know those are rules right but if the rule is you know the rules on colleges from the federal government I'm told that they number now more than 500 pages and I was told once by our attorney because I asked for them we don't live under these rules because we don't get that money I said send me that I'd like to read he said you're not gonna be able to read it and I said you know what do you think I am a lawyer I'm a pretty smart guy maybe I can and no he said I can't read it hmm and see who gets powerful under a system like that right he that whoever has the power to interpret it they can do whatever they want right so that's the point that I would like I you know I hope that the American people will come to understand that in America we're supposed to have a very powerful government and a great deal of government but it is to be of a different character than the kind we have today and that distinction is fundamental Larry our final segment how can we get there from here I'm quoting you once again there is only one way to return to living under the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the institutions of the Constitution we must come to love these things again well you have to know about them you know I am you know partly I confess it I'm like the hammer who looks at everything as if it were a nail and everything is a teaching opportunity right but the great presidents are teachers you know what Reagan's speech that you showed last night and contrast it to some recent presidents without naming any of them Reagan was this big time explainer mm-hmm it's a generous thing to do to somebody else to lay out what you think to labor to make it clear to them not to be you know to invite them into your thought process which of course you can't do unless you make it more clear than it is if you're just talking to yourself right that's a generous and fine impulse that's why Abraham Lincoln speeches are beautiful I like that word because that's a good translation of a fundamental Greek word called Cologne tokala Aristotle says it is therefore Ben Collins said that every human action aims for the good the highest form of the good is the beautiful thing you can't read some speech of Abraham Lincoln if you read it carefully I had this experience one time I've been studying Lincoln since graduate school and friend of mine Lou Lehrman wrote a you mentioned him last night yes talk yes wrote a book about Lincoln's Peoria address and I started reading the book is a very good book Peoria addresses 1838 now early 1850s rt6 I think okay and it's Lincoln's history of slavery hmm and you're thinking of the Lyceum as I am and and I hadn't read that thing for a long time and I read the first chapter of Lou's book and it's very good and I said I'm gonna sit down and read that book let me read that speech again before I go on because I've read it many many times but not for a long time and about 30 minutes later my wife came in the room and she said are you okay dear and I said yes I'm very well and she said are you crying and I said well what's a little bit and she said why I said you should read this speech it's lovely because it's a simple and fine explanation of the history of slavery in our country that great man Lincoln went into the Springfield library and spent months putting it together and today I can remember roughly how slavery moved in our country because he lays it out but then he combines that at the end with this lovely explanation of why the principles of our country are capable of reaching and protecting every human being and ennobling them because they get to participate in rule now that's beautiful and to know that is to love it and so what we really just need is for people to know that Larry from the sublime to I hope it's not ridiculous but it sure ain't sublime in itself the current Republican field we where where is the Lincoln where is the Reagan Marco Rubio's out Paul Ryan is out mitch Daniels is out I was chatting with Michael Barone our mutual friend a couple of weeks ago Michael is I believe the finest political journalist in the country largely because he's such a good historian yeah and Michael's I said how do you rate the current Republican field and he said none of the people I would consider in my top 10 for accomplishment and talent he's running for president why what does that say about the state of the Republic well in the classic books statesmanship which is a very very high form of human art the political art is so rare that it's sometimes used as a synonym for chance and we're in a very frustrating period right now because there are some great ones it looks to me like and they're young a little too young and I think if God gets done with us you know he might put things out of whack in just that way now but but on the other hand they're alive the ones we admire and you know Peter you're alive you know that matters they're people here in this room their life it matters we're not done and we don't know what's gonna happen we we just know what we're supposed to do now about these guys who are running right now I think the only thing wrong with them because you know by the way I don't in general think that politicians I made are bad people I think they're even above the common run they're ambitious you have a good good heart Larry a lot of them are very now what I do think though cuz remember on the hammer and I think of things like a nail but a lot of them they haven't had the privilege or taken the privilege of learning deeply that's not on offer much anymore used to be mm-hmm you know and it used to be that everybody learned a bunch of really cool stuff about American history because it is really great and you know the founders were slaveholders right that's what we dwell on now well we should dwell on it because by the way how did they come to proclaim those principles being slaveholders look at it hard you'll find out it's a proof of their sincerity and and so if you started out a political career understanding that there's a center to America and that one of my job's is to become an expert on that because I'm going to use it then even an ordinary Statesman would be made extraordinary and that we're not doing that today Larry last question you're the president of this magnificent institution it's small it's in the middle of the lower tier of Michigan and everything is an hour and a half or two hours away isn't that great okay so how do you think of Hillsdale College do you think of Hillsdale College as part of a movement of restoration that is gaining strength or do you think of Hillsdale College as a kind of Citadel or monastery where the faith will be kept even despite the gathering dark age yeah it's the first right we're not putting up defenses around here we're on the attack now what I think is the college is first of all it's very beautiful in its beginning right it had so much to do with the coming of Abraham Lincoln to the presidency right and it's I mean some of our students were pallbearers for him and that's because they had earned that place in blood you know they're very serious people back here who started this place I came here mostly because of them and because of the things they wrote but then what do you find out when you work here in a place like this first of all this this place is the students come here from every corner of the land and we got more applications that we can deal with and why is that happening because of the attraction of beautiful things you know when when I say that I believe if people understand the founding of their country they will love it first of all I love it but second of all I watch people come to love it all the time and making it because you know another thing about it is we give C's here and and you know you go somewhere else you can get a's and when i take it back about that big heart of yours yeah you know i'm telling you not me I'm not the worst around here I can tell you by a long shot there's a couple of guys that are just Oh curse and and the kids tend to love them so the point is that is a rich and great experience to participate in but it radiates and it radiates for a lot of reasons every college by the way radiates around itself because the attraction of what happens in them is very powerful and if they're ugly by the way they ugly radiated in an ugly way and some of them are that today now we radiate particularly much because we're strange 50 years ago 60 years ago the college made a decision not to take any money from the government and it read it reiterates that decision under three presidents now and that's a crazy thing to do it's just I mean nobody would look at that and think that was the least bit financially sensible but it drives you somewhere you have to talk to a lot of people and you have to justify what you do inside and outside constantly so that means that the colleges is a force for understanding of national reach that's a valuable thing we think dr. Leary Arne 12th president of Hillsdale College thank you thank you I'm Peter Robinson from Hillsdale College on behalf of uncommon knowledge thanks for joining us you

Channel: Hoover Institution

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Keywords: HooverInstitutionUK, United States Constitution, law, revolution, history, America, England, Europe, government, liberalism, Woodrow Wilson, taxes, spending, bailouts, politics, liberty, freedom, terrorism, national security, Declaration of Independence

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Length: 45min 6sec (2706 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 17 2011