Kyiv spy chief says Russians massing for fresh invasion & exclusive interview with German Ambassador

I'm David nolles and this is Ukraine the latest today we bring you the latest updates from Ukraine as Russian forces continue their crossb push in harv and we sit down with Germany's ambassador to the UK to talk about Germany's policy and strategy in the full scale Invasion bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with Victory if we give president zinsky the tools the ukrainians will finish the job Slava ukraini nobody's going to break us we're strong we're Ukraine is every weekday afternoon we sit down with leading journalists from the telegraph's London Newsroom and our teams reporting on the ground to bring you the latest news and analysis on the war in Ukraine it's Tuesday the 14th of May 2 years and 82 days since the fullscale invasion began and today I'm joined by our associate editor Dominic Nichols assistant comment editor Francis dley and our guest is Germany's ambassador to the United Kingdom Miguel burer I started by asking Dom the latest news from Ukraine so Russia has stationed small assault units near Ukraine's Sumi region kees head of military intelligence has said um anticipating another Russian offensive in the north So speaking to Ukrainian TV General karado banov said the situation in the har region where you'll remember the assault started last Friday was moving towards what he described as stabilization General banov he was speaking as well as on TV he spoke to the New York Times he said he expects the assault on sui as soon as the situation in k h is stabilized as Russia attempts to divert Ukrainian resources further away from other parts of the front line down in the in the East around chva now while the Ukrainian military today said that the situation around H was under control their words Russia claimed to have taken control of parts of the town of where the heaviest fighting has been underway since Friday Ukraine's mod said in its daily readout that the number of Russian attacks around the northern part of H region had decreased significantly but the Ukrainian troops had had to withdraw to new positions near the village of lukan that we talked about yesterday um that was due to Russian heavy Russian air strikes now that's about 25 kilometers Northeast of of hke today's British Ministry of Defense daily intelligence update said that Russia is using using its newly formed Northern grouping of forces in the Hy vblast assault they agree this is this is mod mod British mod agree the aim is to threaten H and possibly and more importantly although that's my emphasis draw Ukrainian forces away from other parts of the line mod say it's unlikely Russia has sufficient combat power to take hke without diverting additional resources to the task now Ukrainian officials this morning said four people were injured by shelling in fresh Russian ATT attacks on the city of h o sanov who's the governor of the broader hke region said on telegram that Russia is using its new unpd D30 bombs these are Soviet era retrofitted guide bombs High Precision guided bombs they're sort of poorman's cruise missile if you like we can't verify those reports also in his piece with the New York Times General banov said that Ukraine is struggling with troop shortages although you know this listen to what he said think make your own mind up he said all of our forces are either here H or in chiva I've used everything we have unfortunately we don't have anyone else in the reserves so make of that what you will next the death toll from the apartment building in belgrad that collapsed on Saturday has risen to 16 according to Russia's emergency situations Ministry belr Governor fascist lab gladkov he said the building was hit by Ukrainian projectile the Kremlin somewhat predictably said it was terrorism ke hasn't commented we can't verify it but as I said yesterday those images the the film The footage is on social media you'll you'll find it see what you think I'm not sure it was a drone I don't know if it was an air munition of some sort but it's uh the blast was at ground level but have a look at the images and you you'll see what where the controversy is now last night Ukraine's Air Force destroyed all 18 attack drones that Russia launched overnight into Ukrainian territory this comes from the Ukrainian Air Force the drones were downed over several areas of the country including the KE region and across the front lines um the Air Force said on telegram they also reported Russia had launched one isander M ballistic missile but they didn't say whether that was intercepted which I would imply means that it was not but um we don't know where where that went and what the impact was next and inside Russia and a freight train has derailed and caught fire after a suspicious incident that Russian media is blaming on a Ukrainian drone attack Russian Railways said simply that the deal RA in the southern region of vrad was caused by interference by unauthorized persons in a suspected sabotage so this area is about 250 kilm east of Ukraine the incident itself happened 30ks north of vulgarr the city known as Stalingrad until 1961 now footage published by Bara that's a telegram Channel linked to Russia's Security Services showed Freight wagon strewn across a railway line um doesn't seem to be any casualties reported from the incident it happened late last last night um the railways adding that um all services resumed a few hours later although Emergency Services did say that 300 M worth of track had been uh had been damaged in the instant and just finally for me David Francis is going to talk more about this in a moment but I just note US Secretary of State Anthony blinkin is in keev this morning more of that shortly now he said the sorely needed Us weapons package had started to arrive and more is on the way he was speaking at the start of a meeting with president zinski Mr blinkin said in the near term assistance is now on the way and that will make a real difference against the Russian aggression on the battlefield replying president zalinsky lorded what he described as The crucial us Aid and asked Mr blinkin for two air defense batteries for harkee stressing air defense was the biggest deficit at the moment in the in the country's Arsenal and that's us up to date David well thank you very much Dom Francis can I come to you what's the latest political and diplomatic movements this afternoon well thanks David and guten tag Ambassador further to the US Secretary of State Anthony blink's visit to Kei that Dom just mentioned there there have been a lot of extraordinary political conversations happening in Europe in the past 24 hours which I'll come to in a moment but first just on that visit by secretary blinken to ke I think it's very very clear and indeed sources are suggesting that it's designed to send a very strong signal of reassurance to the ukrainians at this precarious military moment I imagine too that there will be far more details in private conversations about the timing of specific weapons delivery as Dom suggested in his section but of course if anything else comes out of that we will report it tomorrow now as for these other extraordinary political conversations starting with Kai Kal's Estonia the government there is said to be seriously discussing the possibility of sending troops into Western Ukraine to take over non-direct combat so rear roles from Ukrainian forces in order to free them up to fight on the front that is coming Direct irly from Talon's National Security advisor to the president speaking to the website breaking defense madis Ro said the executive branch is currently undertaking analysis of this potential move and though he said Estonia would prefer to do it as part of a full NATO mission to quote show broader combined strength and determination he did not rule out Estonia acting in a smaller Coalition he also emphasized that it's not Unthinkable that NATO Nations opposed to such a move now would change their minds as time goes on I think this announcement needs to be seen in the context of the remarks by President maon regarding putting boots on the ground in Ukraine in extremists hence why they were so important in moving the conversation forward as well as the defense implications for the Baltic nations were Russia to potentially sees control of large sways of Ukraine as we've discussed many times before Nations like Estonia simply can't cannot afford that to happen now hence why the discussion about what western Nations red lines are in Ukraine is so urgent it's also noteworthy that a cross-party group of German MPS has called for a 7 kilm NATO Air Defense Zone to be set up over Ukraine to protect it against Russian missile and drone attacks so these are Top members of the opposition Christian Democratic Union CDU party as well as Coalition members free Democratic party f DP and the greens and they've discussed setting up as I say a safe Zone around Ukraine's borders with Poland Slovakia Hungary and Romania modeled on the Western Alliance which intercepted Iran's recent assault on Israel now The cdu's Crisis Prevention spokesman said the initiative would help free up Ukrainian forces in the east as well just like Estonia said in their statement where a fresh Russian offensive is of course underway as Dom detailed however already the German proposal was rejected by a senior member of the SPD Chancellor Olaf Schultz's ruling party who said it was irresponsible and a fire hazard now we know that the Ukrainian government has been arguing for some time the Western forces intercepting these missiles would not constitute escalation the acting ambassador to the UK spoke to me in my interview a few weeks ago for the podcast of very candid conversations on that subject taking place between keev and London seeking to sort of highlight the apparent hypocrisy of Western Nations willing to do it for Israel but not for Ukraine though it is important to add that the context was somewhat different given that the missiles were flying over Western military bases in the Israel example which way were not in Ukraine so I don't think we can expect this to happen anytime soon unless the military situation were to become existential for ke but nonetheless the fact these conversations are happening and being happening publicly is indeed revealing one final word on Western support I spoke last week about Britain's labor party widely considered to be the effective of government in waiting with the current conservatives here likely to lose um office according to recent polling I said in that episode that Labour was pretty firm on its support for Ukraine and indeed we learn today that Labour is ready to spend at least 15 billion pounds on Military Support for Ukraine that's coming from Labour's Shadow defense secretary who's made a visit to keev John Healey said he fully backs Sak's commitment to maintain the current level of lethal aid until at least the end of the decade a statement afterwards he said that as Putin seeks to divide the West we send a clear message that a change in government in the UK would mean no change in our military diplomatic financial and political support for Ukraine moscow's deepened cooperation with Beijing tan and Pyongyang requires us to deepen our cooperation with Britain's allies and demonstrate our commitment to Ukraine will Outlast Putin's Imperial Invasion just imagine for a moment what the impact of such a statement from America's Republican Party would have been a year or so ago and just to conclude turning to Russia and its allies Putin will visit China this week to meet what he calls his dear friend president XI as he seeks to win greater support for his War efforts and Russia's isolated economy the trip will Mark the president's first trip aboard since his sham re-election in March and the second trip to China in just over six months an indication of the economic Lifeline it is giving in the aftermath of sanctions the Kremlin said that the two leaders would discuss their comprehensive partnership and strategic cooperation as well as Define key areas of development of Russian Chinese cooperation and exchange views on International and Regional issues that is what is of course still happening between the Kremlin and pongyang where the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un visited a Munitions Factory at the weekend heralding efforts to develop more shells to supply Russia's War Machine it comes of course off the back of the substantial reshuffle of Russian officials we discussed in yesterday's podcast the implication of which are too early to say but there continue to be arrests in Moscow as a Russian general in charge of personnel issues has been detained on suspicion of engaging in criminal activity no more information is forthcoming but evidently this is a moment where the Kremlin seeks to reset and clear out those who have proven themselves ineffective or corrupt as James Kilner said yesterday this should be read as an evidence that Putin feel strong enough to do this now militarily and politically but the fact is that as the head of Britain's intelligence organization gchq has warned in a rare and major speech today Putin's Russia is preparing physical attacks against the West more broadly and Keith Butler Who was appointed to lead Britain's intelligence operations last May has used his speech to highlight the growing threat posed by the Kremlin explicitly she said gchq was increasingly concerned about growing links between the Russian intelligence services and proxy groups to conduct cyber attacks as well as suspected physical surveillance and sabotage operations that would speak to the report we did on Friday's episode into the Kremlin spy Mansion here in Britain indicative of how the Kremlin is evolving its strategy and spycraft as we've seen in Germany recently too so it'll be interesting to hear from the Ambassador whether tackling that is an increased area of cooperation between London and Berlin well thank you very much Dom and Francis well Ambassador Miguel berer thank you so much for joining us it's an honor to have you with us in the studio at the telegraph would you like to start just by briefly introducing yourself and your work to our listeners yeah with pleasure so my name is Miguel berer I've been now for the last two years the ambassador of Germany to the United Kingdom Ambassador can you tell us first of all it's a bit of a broad question but in 2022 in February uh Olaf Schultz the German Chancellor gave what has become known as the ziton vendor speech announcing a transformation of German foreign policy could you explain to us um what ziton vender means for Germany um what's changed in the past two years and what it means for the world I would say ziton vender was really maybe the most important and most influential speech by a German chancellor in the last 20 30 years because it was really a a total Readjustment of our policy not only towards our army our Armed Forces but also in our Russia policy in general so we had a 100 billion EUR um special package for military procurement I can say that more or less all of this money is um uh allocated uh spent we have invested heavily in uh new um airplanes F35 nuclear sharing will be on a totally new standard um we will invest in and we are restructuring our Armed Forces because in the last decade the focus was much more on peacekeeping missions at the United Nations but not so much on territorial defense and everybody has understood that with Putin's war of aggression this has fundamentally changed and we have to reorganize and readjust our Armed Forces we are even talking in Germany about possibility of conscription military service so all of that shows how fundamental that is but citon vendor also goes beyond in the sense that we have understood that Russia has changed in a way that we can't continue the Russia policy of Engagement we had in the past so we got out I would say in a record time of 7 eight months totally got out of Russian oil and gas built LNG infrastructure supported uh now up to 14 sanctions packages of the European Union so a total shift in our defense policy but also in our Russia policy in general Andor thanks so much for joining us today um European diplomacy is a buzz at the moment you heard comments that Francis making earli on Kai Callis talking about the potential for uh Western troops NATO troops inside Ukraine we've heard similar comments from Miss macron uh foreign secr Lord Cameron talking about UK being relaxed about the potential use of weapons British weapons inside Russia these ideas these comments are they the healthy flow of diplomatic ideas around NATO and the west or do you see them as sort of diplomatic hernias showing frustration and Discord in the in the various groupings I think it is also a reaction obviously to the developments on the ground and uh let me really underline how fundamental the decision in the US Congress was after 7 months of delay to approve the 61 billion package I think we would be in a totally different situation if that delay would not have taken place and so we very much welcome secretary blinken's visit to Kiev um the support which is starting to flow now obviously we see that this will take time to materialize and and to take effect on the ground I see the the speech of maon in in the sbon but also his interviews where he speaks about strategic ambiguity as his attempt to send a signal to Putin that if he further escalates then he will not know how NATO is going to react this is an understandable position I would say but at the same time and this is the concern which was expressed by the German Chancellor Olaf Schultz is that we have also to be cautious not to commit mistakes that might lead to an escalation so it's a very thin line to walk um having to deal with a country and you just spoke about it in the introduction where you have a very small team in the security cabinet of Russia who is taking the decisions and this is to a certain degree also a blackbox for us we don't know how these decisions are really taken so we have to be very careful with our signaling with our messaging we have have to be firm we have to be clear we have to increase the support but we should not commit mistakes which can lead than to to escalatory steps by by Russia I'm I'm very keen to talk escalation if I may I'm not going to bluntly ask why Chancellor Schulz won't agree to send Taurus uh but if you want to answer that I'm I'm I'm All ear but after finally sending tanks himars attachs other sophisticated weapons Storm Shadow what sting is there left to be drawn out of this idea that sending very sophisticated weapons is escalatory you know the steps we have undertaken um and let me really start by praising the the policy of the United Kingdom I think without the United Kingdom and the US and the support which was given uh way before the war started we would not be in the position we are right now so it was fundamental for KF capacity to defend itself in Germany it has taken some time but currently I would say we are really by far the the the biggest supporter of Ukraine not only in military terms this year alone a budget of 7.1 billion euros but also if we speak about financial humanitarian Aid refugees 1.1 million ukrainians so it's not I think the limitation um the Li ation of of the weapon system I think for the German government the key issue is no boots on the ground nothing that can be interpreted as a direct involvement of NATO and to my understanding this is shared I think I saw an interview by the foreign secretary yesterday where he said something very similar we know that the US sees it the same way so we need no doubt of at all we need to do more we need to increase our support but we have to maintain really a line where we say nato directly NATO troops are not involved and this this is for German politics I would say a fundamental issue and just finally for me on that I note um so Francis mentioned in in his comments about this idea the German MP is calling for this Air Defense Zone over Ukraine and um senior figure in the SPD Social Democratic party said this talk was irresponsible and a fire hazard would you agree with that it doesn't necessarily mean boots on the ground but would for example NATO field hospitals in Romania and Poland that would need to be protected by an air defense bubble that may because of physics blob over the border into Ukraine is that unacceptable I think we have so far not discussed field hospitals I think the concrete idea was really air defense uh into Ukraine um so it was um today a statement by the spokesperson of the German government who who rejected that idea because it has to do with the same issue the risk of a misunderstanding in Russia and and a possible escalation but really let me let me go back to I think what is the more important point right now and that is that we give Ukraine what they urgently need and that's why we have started some weeks ago this new initiative on air defense and we have sent now we are going to send a third Patriot um uh battery uh uh to to Ukraine we have sent more than 50 gards anti-air systems the iris what we would like to see is a stronger repon response by EU and NATO allies in order to strengthen the air defense capacity of Ukraine apart of all the other things we have to do on ammunition and and delivery of of weapons and I think this this has to be currently the focus Mr Ambassador thank you very much for your time today you marked there a red line for Germany which is no boots on the ground for NATO but what would be Germany's red line for Russia and what I mean by that is how bad could things be allowed to get before the German position itself would either be obliged to change or do you foresee a situation where Germany may lay down a red line and say this far but no further for Russian forces in Ukraine yeah I understand your question but I would really refrain from going into hypothetical situations um and and Define here red lines um I I think the message we need to send and that's why I really want to reiterate how important this us support how fundamental it is that Putin understands that whatever he does the West is with willing to continue and if necessary to increase support for Ukraine but the problems are not only as we know ammunition and weapons the problems are also about the numbers of soldiers the questions of mobilization in Ukraine are a fundamental issue so there are many things which which need to be tackled but you know only to give you one example we had in Germany to do 17 billion budget cuts on energy costs and many things but we doubled our military aid to Ukraine um to 7.1 billion and Chancellor Schultz has called on his European colleagues and NATO colleagues to follow that example it's not enough to maintain the level we need to increase the level and especially because we have this Gap um where uh we have to catch up with the Russian ammunition production with the deliveries from Iran and North Korea and reg ably we have not been fast enough with our industrial production but I think from what I have seen that is that we are on a good way thank you and you spoke about the importance of the American bill that passed it was of course absolutely vital but the question I have is we know from the American position that even if Biden were to Win It Feels unlikely that there would be more support for Ukraine from this Administration so with that being said it will fall on Europe to give even more support even if President Biden were to win of course the worst case scenario is that Trump does withdraw some of his support from NATO so my question is do you think Europe is aware of that that even if with if Washington support that it is still not enough for there to be a decisive strategic shift in Ukraine's favor uh I can only hope that everybody has understood that um so Chancellor Schultz said in the German Parliament that in case that there would be such a necessity Germany would be willing to look into even additional spending so the message is very clear that if need be we we will do and are willing to do more and then we would have obviously very different discussions among uh European members but that's why we have to do and I think you know for the whole us debate um it is so important that we show in Europe that we do at least as much as the Americans in our support to Ukraine and so the decision which was taken in January 50 billion euros budget support because this is an element that many people tend to forget in order to keep the Ukrainian government and the Civil Service and everything running they need 4 billion a month 4 billion and so the European Union has committed 50 billion so we are more or less I would say currently at the same level between us and the European Union but we have to show that we do more than the Americans that is definitely my conviction Ambassador thank you so much for your answers can I ask at the beginning you spoke about Tian vendor and the transformation of German foreign policy um and you spoke a little bit about how the policy of Engagement with Russia um has has changed um what have you learned uh about the Russian regime about how it operates how it thinks in the last two years yeah I think what uh nobody expected um was really the ruthlessness and the brutality of of Russia's policy I remember and I was then still based in Berlin that we had the Munich security conference really a week before the war in Ukraine started and I remember that many of the experts sitting in Munich could not believe that something like that might really happen and even some ukrainians and I will not give names here told us the Russians will never attack Kiev it's such an important city also in the Russian history and culture so um the ruthlessness of that attack has led as I said in the beginning to a total Readjustment of Germany's Russia policy which was directed towards engagement try knowing obviously who Putin was um and is and how he has acted in chachia how he has acted in Syria but trying to engage him on the European security architecture and let's also not forget that President M only two years ago made a similar attempt to to engage Russia now we all have seen that this has failed and that's why we have taken I think the necessary conclusions and the outcome of this war will determine I think the European security architecture um and situation for the generation to come one of the things that's been mentioned um about Germany's position and attitude to the war in Ukraine has been of course the historical guilt associated with the second world war do you think Ambassador that German Society um to some extent has has moved on from that um with the ziton vendor with this new position this new posture in European Defense do you see that in German society that people have moved out of the shadow of the past or not yeah I would not say guilt I it it it it is more that obviously you know um Hitler's war in the East which has led to 20 30 million people who died and many of them let's not forget were ukrainians and bellor Russians but obviously also also Russians all of that made the dis discussion in Germany so difficult so it's obviously different uh from a German perspective to to take a decision on sending as we have done leopar tanks uh to fight against Russian soldiers than it is for any other country so it has an historical uh connotation which is definitely not there for others but we have taken the decision we have done it and Le leop part is now an essential element of what the ukrainians are using um so I would say yes the position has definitely moved on and we have to face a new reality and can I ask just before we hand back to Francis what's it been like dealing with the UK um obviously we had brexit um the UK is not in the EU um could you just give us a sense diplomatically about how that how that sort of um yeah how working with UK officials the UK mod has been different to maybe it was you know five 10 years ago no that's a very good question let let me really uh underline that the cooperation with the British government has been excellent and we just had two weeks ago the visit of prime minister Rishi sunak in Berlin and it was just some days after the US decision so they could jointly I would say reinforce the message of support to Ukraine um we have a day-to-day cooperation on defense on foreign policy in the G7 framework in NATO framework so this cooperation is very very solid and and important for us I would expand it and say Obviously the US is fundamental France and the UK so these four countries I would say are the leading and driving forces of this Corporation and just one final question for me which is relating to nordstream and I think many European countries would look very critically on the decisions that Germany made with regard to becoming more dependent on Russian energy via nordstream and other initiatives too in terms of business ties Etc just wonder the degree to which you think German politician Society has woken up to the mistakes of the past with regard specifically to the last 10 20 years or so in handling Russia or whether you think that it was done in good faith and it wasn't a mistake do you get a sense of of a profound transformation in understanding of Russia or does there still a sympathy there and a hope that we might go back to the way things were when this war ends I think there is no way back there is no way back and I mean the fact that we have now built these LNG uh terminals that we are investing heavily in energy transformation in renewable energy and let me also say that we see a big big potential in German British corporation on renewable energy we need to see energy security now in a in a different way and that means that in Europe in general beyond the European union we need to cooperate on that so I think I think this over dependency and this is one of the key lessons which we now need to apply also to other areas let's say for example China so we need to reduce over dependencies in areas as critical raw materials and others or where we are Overexposed and I think this is a lesson that has definitely been learned but I would say by everybody in in Europe I think just got one final question without trying to put it too bluntly could you just explain for our listeners because we'll have many many ukrainians listening as well going back to the tourist missile uh question could you set out Germany's position on why they're not being delivered you know one of the consequences of World War II was that in Germany the armed forces and everything the Armed Forces do is under strict control of the parliament and that means that whenever we deploy German soldiers abroad we need a parliamentary mandate and the Taurus is um uh a technical system which requires um the presence and the involvement of experts even when it is used so it's not it cannot be programmed and and then uh used so this is part of the question of uh risk of escalation that the government sees but I can tell you that we have a very Lively and Vivid debate in Germany there are many arguing in favor but the line of the government has been that asking for such a mandate would be an escalatory or could be misunderstood as an escalatory step but really I uh would really like to underline Taurus is only one element but um the key issue is what we are doing I would say on air defense on tanks and all the other topics coming up we hear Dom Francis and Ambassador Burger's final thoughts thank you so much Ambassador for your answers let's move then to our final thoughts and we'll come to you last domore Francis would you like to go first thank you very much David and thank you very much Ambassador for very candid conversation I think um just two very brief final thoughts from me don't forget what is happening in Georgia at the moment where tens of thousands of Protestants opposed to the so-called Russia law packed the streets of deit over the weekend there is talks of strikes to force the government to back down speaking to Georgian EXP s many do believe that there is extensive Moscow interference in the country and that this is a real fault line in tensions between Russia and the West one of those examples of Russia's probing activities we will of course continue to monitor it monitor it but expect this story to grow in importance I think over the coming days I just also wanted to draw attention to a comment piece in the telegraph by Sergey kusan a former advisor to the ministry of Defense of Ukraine who I interviewed on war crimes whilst in ke it's about how Russia is deploying conscription to quote the piece we can now definitively say after much research that Moscow has been conscripting Ukrainian youth from across the occupied territories to serve in their Armed Forces not only that but Ukrainian intelligence has recorded many cases in which conscripts have ended up on the front lines this is not just a moral crime but a war crime as he goes on the city of marup formerly ukra 's 10th largest city has seen similar Russian mobilization efforts under the guise of conscription the lack of Russian citizenship is no longer an obstacle immediately after being drafted men are offered the chance to sign a contract with a payout if they are ever sent to the front this is then willfully ignored mobilization activities also continue in illegally occupied Crimea according to the Ukrainian resistance in April 2024 the occupiers raided the local population of one District which happened to be one of the major Muslim holidays the goal is obvious recruit the most quote problematic close quote parts of the population for Russia the Crimean tartars Russia is also actively trying to persuade vulnerable men to sign contracts with its Army those with debts problems with the law or are in other difficult situations and then he just concludes by saying the Ukrainian resistance uses this situation to their advantage by recruiting Russian officers passing on information and targeting Russian administrators because it upsets the locals so much most of those activities are top secret but they are happening expect more in the coming months an interesting piece we'll add a link in the description thank you very much Francis Dom Nichols yeah thanks David so I note that there are a large number of Russian military bases just across the border with Ukraine that are in range of such systems as aam's high Mars and so on but which Ukraine can't attack because they don't have permissions from from the US uh similarly Russian aircraft they launching Glide bombs into harke and and elsewhere without leaving Russian airspace that situation might be very different if if the US gave permissions to uh to Ukraine to fire Patriots into Russia so I just wonder if after two years of this thing two years after Russia was kicked out of the North and after months of talking about sticking with Ukraine you know quote unquote whatever it takes and seeing images from the ongoing assault around around harke and I hope people read Colin Freeman's dispatch yesterday describing how Russian snipers were shooting at ukrainians trying to evacuate civilians from the area I hope all that give um yeah I wonder well I wonder if it causes Western Pol policy makers any embarrassment now at all and I wonder if it will be a Spur to change some of these policy positions that are being held thank you Dom and Francis Ambassador Burger thank you so much for coming in would you like the uh very final words as our guest no with uh pleasure let me uh maybe mention quickly two issues we have not touched upon uh one is the Ukraine recovery conference which is taking place on the 11th and 12th of June in Germany uh last year it was here in London and obviously it will come at a very critical time um but also within Ukraine that has a candidate status to the European Union so the whole question of reconstruction process um towards the European Union will be of fundamental importance that's maybe something also for your program which might be interesting and let me end maybe after after all these very difficult topics on a lighter note we have upcoming the European football championships the euros and we are so glad that Ukraine is participating and um so and has qualified and we are looking very much forward to not only hosting England and Scotland but also Ukraine absolutely thank you so much Ambassador for that we'll be watching the championships with huge interest let's hope for the same results as last time eh Ukraine the latest is an original podcast from the telegraph to stay on top of all of our Ukraine news analysis and dispatches from the ground subscribe to the telegraph you can get your 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Length: 41min 28sec (2488 seconds)

Published: Tue May 14 2024